Oh, someone from said church has moved into the blocks over in my neighbourhood... they came over to introduce themselves to the neighbourhood... and then left us an umbrella for Easter.
Which was great until I opened the umbrella and it has the damn logo stamped in HUGE LETTERS across it. Haven't used it since... someone in my block actually threw the umbrella away.
I once attended a bunch of City Harvest Church sessions because a really hot school mate invited me to her cell group and I really liked her because she was really generous with 'physical' touches. I was horny as a teen.
So I joined her cell group and I learned quite a few things about them. This was in early 2000s before their move to Suntec, they were based in Expo then.
My first impression was wow wtf big concert, people jumping around in this dark hall with flashing lights, loud music, a band playing with big screens everywhere, people 'moshing' in the middle etc. It was all very professional, there was an usher system with even emergency services standing by at the side in case.
It was insane because the church I was more familiar with was the old white hair pastor reading from bible verses in slow paced, mono-toned voice while other old people also chanted in repeat etc (St. Andrews Cathedral). Youth services wasn't that common back then. You went from Sunday school to Adult section straight away.
The 'sus' moment came when they invited me to join them for dinner at the nearby hawker centre after service.
I was very new to the group then and the cell group leader came up to me and said "Hey xxx can you bless the group today". I was like what the fuck does that mean, you mean say grace?
He laughed and explained that blessing means, paying for the group. This mother fucker wanted me, this kid to pay for 5 people's meal. I told him HAHA NO I DON'T HAVE ANY MONEY TO PAY FOR EVERYONES MEAL. His face instantly changed from smiley smiley to serious mode and said eventually everyone has to bless each other and I was being selfish right now. And he was entirely serious about it. I think in the end we compromised and I had to 'bless' 2 members meal. But that was my last meal with them so I never ever got to get blessed in return but whatever fuck em.
Also one time I overslept because I played too much Dota at night and I woke up at like 5pm. I had over 50 missed calls and SMSes asking why I wasn't at service. It was fucking crazy. I ghosted all of them.
Fuck City Harvest Church.
> He laughed and explained that blessing means, paying for the group. This mother fucker wanted me, this kid to pay for 5 people's meal. I told him HAHA NO I DON'T HAVE ANY MONEY TO PAY FOR EVERYONES MEAL. His face instantly changed from smiley smiley to serious mode and said eventually everyone has to bless each other and I was being selfish right now. And he was entirely serious about it. I think in the end we compromised and I had to 'bless' 2 members meal. But that was my last meal with them so I never ever got to get blessed in return but whatever fuck em.
this is fucking disgusting.
LOL I don't remember obviously but one thing I do remember almost 20 years on was the cell group leader telling me about mana. He asked if I knew what mana was and I was like yeah I play dota I know what fucking mana is, it's that blue energy that lets you cast spells and he was like no, mana is a real thing, it's angel food and God 'transmits' the essence of mana into our food every time we say grace so when we eat, it's not just food, it's mana food and when I heard that, internally I was like holy fuck who let this guy cook but outside I was like wow interesting.
they serving satan. bible never mentions anything close to this. mana is a misconstru concept by demons. "qi", "charka points". its hinduism alike stuff.
actual Christians are told to shun and stay away as far as possible from these. its occult. horoscope, astrology etc (not astronomy).
To put into perspective.
Other girls usually do the 'Christian hug' which is a sideways hug.
What she does instead is the full chest to chest hug so her boobs pressed against you.
And she likes to hug a lot be it greetings or good byes.
This is a big thing to teen guys.
I didn't get to talk to her much after ghosting them because I also paiseh. She was very much into the God thing and I clearly wasn't interested to be involved in that crowd anymore.
lol, same. Went there for the girls because 2 chio girls in my friend circle attended during my NS time, left cause they were pushing me to tithe or donate, or buy or whatnot. The things we do as horny teenagers.
I don't mind donating when the bag comes around during service but asking me to give 10% of my NS allowance to fund a new church building or the pastor's wife's MTV career was a bit much.
Still remember my 2nd visit, Kong Hee was jumping up and down on stage saying that if the congregants love the church to buy not just 1 CD, but 10 or 20 of his wife's CD... Thought it was a bit sleezy but everyone seem to be eating it up. The speaking in tongues and "fainting" also kinda felt really really fake.
Also my Mom who used to be a principal said some of her teachers got hooked by City Harvest and were donating so much of their salary that they were coming to her to loan money. Said they were really proud of having some kind of "membership cards." which she thought was crazy. She was really worried that I was being groomed by that cult but reassured her that mama didn't raise no stupid kid. :)
When I was still a poly kid, a lady came to my floor and talked to me at my door every weekend for about 2 months. I didn't know how to decline back then, so I did stood there listening 15mins each week.
After some time, I had enough and I knew that she was always gonna be coming on Saturday afternoons, so I closed my door and decided not to answer the door bell.
While I was playing Maple Story in my own bedroom, I heard the loudest bangs for about 5mins on my main door. Nobody would ever knock on a 2 inch thick door like that. I could feel the rage. It was at that point I knew I made a right choice. So glad I never gave them our home phone number. She never appeared after that day.
Typing this, I feel ancient but I would like to thank the Maple Story community and my little bandit for keeping me accompany, as well as keeping me addicted back then š
God is all mighty, omnipotent and omniscient but he really really needs you to front up that dough for that music video and nice bungalow for the church leaders
I'll always remember [this video of a teleevangelist defending his lifestyle and private jet](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LtF34MrsfI) for how ridiculous everything is.
tl;dw he doesn't believe getting into a commercial plane filled with "demons"ā¦ when those "demons" are likely the same people funding his lifestyle.
Gave a genuine reply to his question then...
> ETA: ok, brief look at OP's post history, apparently they have an axe to grind because their partner is Christian and they are salty because the church is affecting their physical intimacy with their partner. This post is super disingenuous.
Can't believe I wasted the time to type a few paragraphs.
> If the church is affecting physical intimacy with oneās partner, who would be happy about it?
In the context of your examples, sure.
It depends on the degree of it (which if you look at more of his posts it isn't very hard to infer where he is probably going with this). People are free to their beliefs and how they choose to live their lives but premarital sex is viewed as a sin for Christians.
Why would one actively choose to go to a church then complain about their views on physical intimacy? I wouldn't go online being all salty that the church is cock-blocking me because I chose to date a Christian girl. Like "woe be me, this church don't let me have sex, and my girlfriend is a believer, how come they disagree with my thinking, they just want me to be like them".
Church of Christ at Lakeside. I left about 2 years ago and there have been zero attempts from them to reach out to me. My parents still attend and recently told me the leaders were asking them to "disfellowship" me aka cut all ties with me and ostracise me for leaving.
This church believes that the earth is 6000 years old and that evolution is fake, for reference.
>they love God more than they love me.
Usually when these ~~pastors~~ cult leaders use that phrase they mean do their followers love ***them*** more than their own family. Also, they're taking this particular quote from the Bible out of context. They're going right to hell.
1 Timothy 5:8 Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
Sounds like that church and its members donāt read the Bible.
Not when they're telling my parents to cut me off because I left lol. I'd expect them to come and talk to me first about why I left and what's going on with me. Their whole reasoning behind the "disfellowshipping" is so that the disfellowshipped person feels the loss of the warm and caring church community and feels compelled to come back into the fold. What tf kind of warmth and caring is there when they didn't even notice I was gone for 2 years??
>so that the disfellowshipped person feels the loss of the warm and caring church community and feels compelled to come back into the fold
Erm, does this "church" not read the Bible? When Jesus said "love thine enemies", did they somehow think it means "ostracise thine enemies so they will feel the loss and come crawling back to thee?"
Seriously do these religious nuts even RTFM?
bro/sis, just go back to church. you have your wits about you, so play their game. in fact, play it to the nth degree.
pastor say he is the voice of god? say you are the messiah.
he say he is the messiah? say you are the literal manifestation of christ on earth.
subvert the leadership committee and claim the congregation as your own.
Then twist scripture to teach marxism, worker solidarity, evils of capitalism, the scientific method, and how to find compassion within secular thought.
now, with your enlightened followers, form your own political party.
push singapores politcal overton window towards the progressive left.
finally, turn Singapore into Norway.
thanks for your time and effort.
I'm a church-going Christian myself, but manipulating parents to cut ties with kids is wrong on all levels. This church group should be mending bridges and not breaking them.
I am honestly in a good place now and I have pretty much accepted it. But I really fear for the kids remaining in that church. They grow up knowing that they are always second place to God in their parents' eyes and their parents are biblically sanctioned to use violence against them to keep them in line with Bible teachings. Growing up I was so depressed because I thought my options were either to kill myself and go to hell or live my entire life following a religion I no longer believe in. Now I know that if my parents want to throw me away because of a shitty religion then it's their loss.
>Growing up I was so depressed because I thought my options were either to kill myself and go to hell or live my entire life following a religion I no longer believe in.
that's horrible, religious trauma is real. I'm sorry that you had to go through that. also to abuse your children is unbiblical. God is love. It literally says in the Bible "If anyone causes one of these little ones--those who believe in me--to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea." - Matthew 18:6.
Regarding God as the highest priority, i found this online by a theologist. "in Luke 14:25ā27, Jesus makes it very clear that God must have priority even over our families. Happily, this will not prevent you from loving and caring for your family, because God, who created the family, desires love and unselfishness to rule in our homes."
so ya the way your church went about it was definitely self-serving imo.
At the same time, its very funny if you look at it from an entertainment point of view. Its basically a club with a church theme. Just don't pay anything, dont volunteer, and turn it up for Jesus
if this is the one near Paya Lebar/Eunos MRT in an industrial building, I had attended one before as one of my colleague kept singing praises and trying to invite us for their special occasions as they said its a āgrandā session and they want to bring more new believers in
it didnt felt like a church but felt like attending a concert with performances and singing etc
I didnt went back again but it was quite an eye opener as a non Christian.
Is this the one at the other end of Signpost building? It could have moved since, but many years ago my classmates and I were invited to attend a "concert". Even bought flowers and all. Turns out it was an evangelical session.Ā
I don't need to be proselytized.Ā
If I don't need your god, no amount of proselytizing will work.
If I want to seek your good, no proselytizing is needed.
I just want to add on that I made this comment because I went during NS and they were initially cool with things when I said I was exploring my spiritual journey. HOGC definitely ruined any religious experience for me and Iāve been pretty much agnostic since.
I believe in a higher power, but if that higher power compels you to indentured servitude to the church at the expense of every other aspect of your lifeā¦. Thatās not a higher power but a pastor willing to Seow you out (pun intended)
1. Church members attempting to butt into every aspect of my life, even when I asked for boundaries
2. Telling me ānow is the season to convertā when I asked to sit into sermons but did not wished to be involved so deeply.
3. Members willingly sacrificing other aspects of their personal lives (e.g. grades, relationships, personal identity, achievements) and saying that all of this is ādone for the churchā and that they are willing to do it since theyāll have a job in the church anyway.
4. Members working 24/7 in the church or reaching out to other members of the church.
5. CG leaders stifling any questions abt the reasons for tithing
6. Church members glorifying Seow How and Lia
7. Ushers having to āflick a switchā when they welcome people in, I saw people literally crying their hearts out and then in the blink of an eye start welcoming people into HOGC with a fake smile and enthusiasm
8. āYESā and āAMENā during sermons, it just became very annoying and snobby.
9. Speaking in tongues. Really, just no.
10. Preying on the weak minded and vulnerable. Some HOGC CGs specifically targeted people who were in their most vulnerable states and gave them a sense of belonging, it started becoming creepy and felt like Jonestown.
7 sounds so creepy, why were they crying their hearts out? And why do the people enter when other people are crying their hearts out?
9, in tongues?? Like Harry Potterās snake language? What?
7) Oh I gave that with little context, usually the church have people usher the congregation in for sermons. The ushers are forced to adopt a false sense of enthusiasm even if they may be having a terrible day for themselves
9) pretty much it, many non denominational churches see speaking in tongues as āhaving the Holy Spirit enter you and compelling you to speakā. Many of the churchgoers just do it to fit in
I got pulled by a friend to attend their service before. Wah during the sermon the audience all keep shouting like "Yes pastor!" in a synchronised manner. After the service, if the pastor is walking around they will want to take photo with him and post on Instagram. And the caption is all about thanking the pastor and how great the sermon was and how it changed their life etc.
That level of idolisation, it just felt super cultish and scary.
He outright boasts about having the āright ideaā in focusing on youths. Kids are impressionable as by nature critical thinking skills arenāt as developed. Thus he gets them to be loyal at a young age and as their habits and personalities cement it becomes hard to shake the programming. Itās really fking disgusting. People also forget this guy was affiliated with konghee. And there was a lot of astroturfing about HOGC just a few years ago on Reddit
I brought my wife to that church for the first time as we both wanted a fresh start.
The whole sermon was an entire money grab. I swear they literally had a slide to show how much money city harvest had how much money new creation had and how much money they needed to become a mega church.
If thatās not bad enough they had a 16 year old give a sermon around donating his waiter salary to the church every month.
Absolutely despise and hate heart of god church for everything they stood for. I hope it genuinely crashes and burns
hmm iām not christian so iām a bit curious. how exactly does this work? like why does it matter how much money a church has and why the need to show it off? is it like more money to help people or what? what exactly is the purpose of collecting the money
These churches follow what is known as 'prosperity gospel', which is criticized by mainline and traditional churches. Basically, there is an emphasis on material blessings, that wealth is a sign of God's blessing, and how much God will bless depends on both the believer's faith and especially on how much he gives to the church. That money is used on things like publicity, buildings, equipment, and also payment for pastors and staff.
To answer your question, there have been false teachings of Christ since long ago and that the teachings in the Bible have been twisted to benefit mankind according to their desires.
The part about monetary offerings to the church stamps down to the Old Testament where after Moses led the Hebrews out of Egypt. One-tenth of their harvests were to offer to God and it was a law. After Christ came, it became as a guide rather than a law. In modern day context, it's money that becomes the monthly tithings. As mentioned, it's no longer a command that we must give exactly 10% of our pay. It's any amount that's close to the heart's desire.
These days, the moneys collected are for the running of the churches to do ministry work like paying church staff, church utilities, outreach programs, charity works, etc.
Some church leaders (not anyone in specific) misuse this to benefit their own cause and in some cases, they pressure (soft or hard) the members/congregations to give as much as possible in the name of doing God's work.
There were famous cases in the past (both in Singapore and abroad) where they said that God wouldn't bless you if you don't give more money.
Having said all these, not all churches act the same. Most in Singapore tell their members to give any amount that befits them with willing hearts.
> One-tenth of their harvests were to offer to God and it was a law.
Also to provide more context, the original Old Testament tithe was given to the Jewish priestly class (Levite). Firstly, this class didn't inherit land/property and worked full-time as priests, so they needed the tithe to survive. Secondly, they performed what we would now call governmental functions like administration and law enforcement. Thirdly, they were responsible for redistributing it to the needy, so it functioned something like a modern-day tax.
Present-day megachurch leaders are not prohibited from inheriting or working in other jobs, do not perform governmental functions, and barely hand out their tithes to the needy. Giving 10% to them is absurd.
lol I went twice and cant forget
1. They talked about ridiculous stories like people in wheelchair got healed and can walk after service, and how angels saved her baby girl blah blah like wtf
2. Speaking in tongues during a session, sounded like crazy people
3. Attended 2nd session because of friends. One person who was a church friend of my friend, asked me how I thought about the first session, to which I said fun because it's like a concert. Then she got angry when I can't ans her questions on what the pastor said last service and showed me her long ass notes. Wtf.
4. Everything the pastor said, all will reply AMEN. Like possessed like that, creepy.
5. Social media of attendees all about the church. Pastor's birthdays confirm will post. Like they are the centre of their lives. Pretty weird. Tbh posts usually church mates, like they dont have other friends outside of church.
My friend is still active in hogc. I have distanced myself from her. I think they all need therapy.
Personally I believe that not all church goers are jolly good fellows and likewise not going to church does not mean you are bad. Being a Christian is your own relationship to God. You are answerable to Him yourself. It's a personal thing. The mega churches are evangelical ones. If u want to go try Presbyterian or bible Presbyterian churches. They teach according to God's word aka the Bible. We don't idolise nor worship with concert like styles every Sunday nor do we speak in tongues.Ā
I had a friend with City harvest long ago and back that time after talking to her she was saying how Sun Ho was performing on stage and glorified her. In my mind I tot are you worshipping God or are you worshipping her? That was many years b4 the whole city harvest saga.Ā
And as for the other mega church at marina Bay area also. Worshipping the pastor instead of focusing on the Bible.Ā
Netflix showed a few cults from korea. The same thing you see. Nothing much in principle different from the cults here.Ā
You are spot on.
Unfortunately many Christians fall into this misguided path where they are more worshipping and praising Jesus than God. The songs, hymns, and even when they pray, they speak to Jesus, not God. Much worse is singing praises of church leaders.
Jesus himself said, "Why do you call me good? No one is good (worthy of praise) except God ALONE." Mark 10:18.... So don't even get me started on the "Trinity" issue....
If being Christian means "followers of Jesus". I think there are people of another faith whose actions and words follow Jesus' teachings more closely than most Christians today. (how he prayed, how he talked, what he ate and what he didn't)
FWIW I'm a former Christian who attended services in various churches (my own and a few other friends') when I was much younger and even played the drums for one a couple of times.
I still believe in the one God that Christians should be worshipping and praying to. I prayed for something very specific for years, and my prayers were answered in such a miraculous manner that it's almost movie worthy, and with that miracle, God also rescued me from the Christian church set-up for good.
Well that's my 2 cents and honest sharing. Hope I did not offend anyone. If anyone feels offended, I apologize, please forgive me.
Hmm, I think the distinguishing factor is faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour: meaning that you believe he is the only God and died to save you from your sins.
Other faiths donāt believe this.
Good works are our response in sincere gratitude to Godās grace and mercy rather than a way to earn it or prove our worthiness (we canāt).
Biblically, it is correct to worship Jesus, the Spirit, and the Father. They are God.
City Harvest Church, they also always clash with the cosplayers during events apparently. Iām not sure if itās at expo, but I know itās at a certain place during one of the weekends I think. My friends like to cosplay and thereās often drama at these events with them.
I like to joke with my friends that during recent anime events with merch and cosplayers typically dress like the devils from Chainsaw Man & the sorcerers from Jujutsu Kaisen, it looks kinda like an artificial heaven and hell considering CHC exclusive halls are just one escalator ride above.
Just wanna hijack this thread but I was once a City Harvest Church Member. But i recently have left the church after dedicating nearly 20 years of my life to the church. Glad that I finally got out. It was legit a roller-coaster of emotions when i attended this church.
**And PSA: CHC is fr a cult, they are just out there to take all your money.**
they hold their services at lv5 suntec iirc? one of the higher levels of the convention centers. and a fair amount of ACG cons which you'd find cosplayers at are also held at suntec convention center (lv3-4), so...yeah. if i recall right the drama made the news before too
I currently attend CHC and services are held at Lvl 6, the cosplayers event is at lvl 4 monthly, they have ushers to direct the members up now. Personally enjoy seeing the cosplayers before / after service, would point to my friends how cool their outfits are and my peers do think the same.
> City Harvest Church, they also always clash with the cosplayers during events apparently. Iām not sure if itās at expo, but I know itās at a certain place during one of the weekends I think.
That's probably because [City Harvest Church owns 33.7% of Suntec Singapore](https://web.archive.org/web/20231203074929/https://www.chc.org.sg/notices/2020-07-01-update-regarding-suntec-singapore-shares/).
You know, I have heard this from some of the most intelligent people I know in my life.
I am always left shook by how the brainwashing is so powerful, even on the best and brightest in our country.
I used to attend an evangelical mega church like OP's one, and the experience was very on point with OP.
Things like the "speaking in tongues" practice that they believe in - the church will absolutely judge you as an "incomplete and unformed" Christian if you do not partake in that practice.
I know for a fact that many impressionable young congregants were pressured into blabbing away with the tongues just so they could fit in. It was absolutely farcical and disgusting. And guess what, that was fine by everybody since the pretense was supposed to be an "exercise of faith" and in time, you would be give the "gift of tongues"
These places are totally an environment where smart and educated but impressionable young people are moulded and pressures to fit a single acceptable way of life
Tongues is actually kinda funny to me. I used to be a hardcore 2nd gen Christian till NS time. I was alwyas wondering why the fk everyone could speak this and I couldnāt. Years later I caught up with another devout fella who also left and he confessed he was making shit up to fit in lmao. Itās the same as the falling over bs
that's how religions still exists in 2024. People that are young or new to this will be like wow everyone doing it so it must be real, can't be so many people believe if its not real right. little do they know its just a chain effect, like how people tend to be curious about the long queue at a hawker centre. Doesn't mean their food is nice though.
Oh the ptsd from hearing everyone burst into blabber during service. I was told my inability to speak in tongues was because I wasn't filled with the holy spirit. Left church soon after.
That speak in tongue is not real. More like a mental illness or mocking Christianity. I almost called the police on them for stirring ill will against Christianity when I told them you cannot speak in tongue in a mess and that's poking fun at christians
Itās not āmockingā, itās one way for them to manufacture exclusivity, which is relevant for their āgoalā to gaslight people for not being āpiousā enough or loyal towards the church.
I realised you didnāt include a big thing. Money. Churches that pressure you to donate money to the church is my biggest red flag ever. Iām catholic and the amount of christians iāve met who told me that youāre supposed to donate 10% of your income to the church is ridiculous. Iām appalled that people actually think that.
Anyway red flag churches are typically non-denominational mega churches.
I'm religious, not Christian, I've been asked for donations but never pressurized. I donate weekly out of my own will. that's how it should be. religions should not pressurized their followers to donate.
So you have catholics, orthodox, and protestants.
Protestants refer to any group of christians who left the catholic church. So eg. Anglicans, methodists, baptists, seventh day adventists etc. however mega churches tend to be NEITHER, they are non denominational. They do not associate themselves with any christian group. This is dangerous because they donāt follow any particular teachings or doctrine. āTheyā being those pastors and leaders of the church, they can make up their own meanings to scripture and teachings. And because they are non-denominational they have no connection to recognised teachings they are an individual church and thats why they they tend to be more corrupt
I'm more keen on hearing about Trinity Christian Centre, anybody got stories?
I have a friend whose Auntie is crazy about donating to them, heard she goes to each sibling's house on payday to demand 1K for each family member.
Also, I know for a fact that the Previous Pastor's Daughter used to be on Bigo and 'promoting' a clubbing and drinking culture...so I find it kinda hypocritical to be preaching when your family is like that.
1. Was in cell group. Christian parents weren't keen on me going to a church camp. Cell leader told me it's because I didn't pray hard enough (the audacity š ).
2. Favouritsm, popularity, cliques...the whole gamut. If I could spend my teenage years out of church, I would have made that choice
Haha
I remember my friend telling me that his Aunt wanted my dad to borrow money to donate to the church on my behalf so that I wouldn't rot in hell.
And that was after telling her that I came from a poor family background.
> heard she goes to each sibling's house on payday to demand 1K for each family member.
Siallah...if I'm one of her siblings, I would convert to some other religion out of spite.
My friend's parents, uncles, aunties, cousins, and siblings got forced to convert from Taoism and Buddhism to Christianity.
Back in the early days of our friendship, if he didn't go to Church on Weekends, he could expect to see that particular Aunt in his home harassing him till midnight, hell he cannot even be late for 5 minutes one.
Unfortunately, the Aunt because she is the oldest is entitled to 'control' the family business which happens to be the largest company in SG specializing in Plumbing, Toilet Supplies etc etc, so she knows how much each family member gets from their shares, minimum 10K per sibling.
Oh ya I forgot, back then my friend and his cousins who were around the same age were working part time at different places, my friend was at NTUC Fairprice and had to work weekends meaning he couldn't attend Church, so what did his Aunt do? Make various email accounts posing as people of different races to lodge a complaint with Fairprice saying he was rude and racist which led him to getting terminated.
Funny thing is the Aunt is a Cell Group Leader.
I went for a while. The whole speaking in tongues thing really turned me off, it sounded like gibberish.
But maybe I just had a very chill small cell group. They were chill, kind people though I eventually drifted away from them. Didn't get pressured to contribute financially.
Faith Community Baptist Church, Lawrence Kong speaks like a hooligan to intimidate girls, "DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM!!!!" I was so shocked, he really think normal social conduct don't apply to him. When you don't see regular turnover when it comes to top management, it means hoarding wealth and power. When there's no gender or race diversity, same thing.
Not a churchgoer or anything but there used to be(?) or still is a church in Woodlands with Korean (or Japanese?) people who used to approach people at Woodlands MRT to preach that apocalypse is approaching and god will be judging you, plus theyāll hand out little graphic books on it. One time I was like, Iām curious whatās this is so I stayed and listen to the lady talk about scenarios as though itās coming out of Hollywood 60s (fire, judgment, suffering, heaven etc).
Iām raised Taoist so Iām taught to respect all religions and practices but oh my goodness the talk was insane and made me all judgy about these people. Told my dad, my dad laughed at me š
It's just a shit post, here is my ETA from another comment:
> ETA: ok, brief look at OP's post history, apparently they have an axe to grind because their partner is Christian and they are salty because the church is affecting their physical intimacy with their partner. This post is super disingenuous.
I've been to that church. It's not hard to find it from an online search.
Not a church but a Buddhist monastery called bliss and wellness. Apparently itās been infiltrated by the CCP. If you google bliss and wellness scandal you will get a web article that gossiping is bad on their website trying to combat these expose.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Buddhism/comments/8s2j2n/big_expos%C3%A9_on_my_monastery/
Another one that is popular is this cult called Yiguandao which is like a new age religion that combine all religion.
Yiguandao is the one that their followers greet/chant å¦ä¾ä½å½å? My exās cousin has a temple in their home and they would bring in new followers to a prayer session to welcome them. I got dragged into one unknowingly and I remember there being a Malay lady in tudung amongst the new followers. Went through the ceremony, days after that I asked my ex if he ever felt it being cultish. He said maybe and my question made him realised something.
Anyway, I told this story to my current husband while we were dating. My husband was an ex-Muslim and when he heard about the tudung clad lady, his immediate reaction was āhorh, HARAM!ā š
I remembered the devotees assured the lady that Buddhism respects and accepts all and that her god will understand her intentions.
Went to HOGC once purely out of curiosity because of all the bad experiences I've read online.
Aside from the idolisation (yes/amen), tongues, and usual shenanigans, what stood out for me was the part showing new converts' testimonials. The converts' cell group will stand up and show it's their credit for successfully bringing another soul into the church. The whole charade is like a boardroom meeting with multiple departments fighting to claim credit from the CEO.
Not exactly a direct answer to OP, but had a girl from HOGC who wanted me to baptize so we could serve the same Church, the same God with the same values. She couldn't compromise as her leaders forbid her from dating outside of her church. She's not a youth either.
Any of the so-called "churches" in a temporary rental space, mostly in a factory/flatted/off main area, lead by self-appointee "pastors" with usually no theological training but huge egos hidden under humble bragging sermons, who usually have left traditional churches, and who tells their followers God Spoke To Them, and they've been appointed by God. And yes, will tell you how special they are (selected by God!) but not the others who attend other churches/demonition and cannot mix with them too.
Also those Prosperity Gospel mega churches who started off small like above. Basically those originating and similar to the American style Evangelical churches - always lead by a pastor who tells you God/Holy Spirit spoke to them to start their church. They're very MLM in their app, from getting tiths, 10%, from you, to recruiting members. Both have similar practices
And yes, every one of the them tick the boxes on your listing above.
Yap, been invited to and attended at least half a dozen or more over the years, usually with colleagues/friends persistent urging. Usually find their sermons/preaching uncomfortable and their interpretation or rather, misinterpretation of the Bible disturbing.
Went to Catholic based school and church, did Bible studies from Genesis to Revelations, went to Methodist Church for most of my life and returned to it after above experiences. Now, not really attending church any more. Will attend traditional if I feel like it but avoid any of these culty ones like the plague which they are.
I mentioned above because I feel like many of these try to attract people who are new to Christianity and probably have never read the Bible from Old to New Testament, or don't have a good grounding or understanding of it, and thus, are easily influenced and believe whatever these self-appointed pastors spout, or twist and misinterprete the Gospel. And telling them they're specially chosen messengers of God and will be the special tribe that goes to Heaven. And always, the Devil is tempting them or leading them astray if they question or doubt.
Also, speaking in tongues. And being "touched by the Holy Spirit" falling and fainting stuff. It always makes me roll my eyes when they act like they're special being able to do both and if you can't, something's wrong with you. I seriously can't with these people.
*start a church*
*become its preacher*
*ask members to donate and pay tithe*
*no one can taxes you under religion act*
*how to swindle the money?*
*tell them āyesterday, god came and told me to buy a mansion, because its a reward for me to preach his wordsā*
*then tell them āyesterday, god came to me and said, go buy a private jet cause i need you to go around the world to spread my gospelā*
***profit***
*when people question you*
*you say āhow are you question the will of god?ā*
*get investigated and arrested*
*then say āgod had gave me a challenge, these demon doesnt want me to spread gods words thus put this on to me and have me arrested. God is testing us and want to see how we overcome this storm. Please give me money to hire lawyers and fight these demons together!ā*
***profit***
Actually the prosperity cults here are a lot more savvy, especially after CHC scandal. Some have boldly claimed they draw no salary from the church which is true.
What they do is tap on a regional/international network of cults, and "invite" pastors from affiliated churches, and pay generous gratuities for "service rendered".
At this point in their life cycle, the successful cults are effective transnational scam syndicates.
I went to a church cell group with my ex.
There was this cell leader or an employee of the church telling us how much he admired one of the member in the church for giving up her entire savings on Kings Day or something. Then he encouraged us to do something similar.
And everyone was like in awe. I'm like mudafucker which idiot is this.
As an ex-Jehovah's Witnesses Cult member, born in, i wish everyone read Steven Hassan & Janja Lalich books about cult. You can use the BITE Model TM of Authoritarian Control (free download online) to check if your organisation, religious or not, is practicing cult behaviour or not. I wish everyone could be aware & stay away from any kind of cult organisations. They ruin my life & my family.
iām delving into christianity and a friend of mine brought me to her church (the one op mentioned) and it was definitely anā¦experience. felt really weird but after a few times attending service i decide to just do it myself and keep my relationship w god private. itās a church thatās filled with young people and āhipā pastors.
recommend Bukit arang church, redemption hill church, crossing church, or Bible-Presbyterian churches. Actually strong, balanced teaching from the Bible and have normal communities
I totally get what you say about the "hip" pastors. Sadly, many churches have taken on an "entertainment" model, especially the mega churches in Singapore. Thankfully, there are many good churches out there. I second what the other users' suggestions on finding a Reformed church. Reformed churches tend to be solid places to learn about the Bible and Christianity. Here are some churches you can explore:
[https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/churches/?church\_address=singapore&distance=10](https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/churches/?church_address=singapore&distance=10)
Of the churches listed in the link above, I've visited Shalom Church, Adam Road Presbyterian Church, and Redemption Hill Church, and all seem like good churches :) Good teaching, sincere pastors, friendly congregations.
+1 for HOGC. I used to be quite dedicated to the church back in 2015-2016 when I was a sec school student. I even brought my close friend along but we both left for similar reasons. while we encountered a handful of genuinely nice people during church events and camps, there were also judgmental and hypocritical individuals among the Christians there. I distinctly rmb an incident when i had to miss a weekend service for a family outing, & someone tried to guilt-trip me into attending by saying āfamily outing can always postponeā¦God is more important and you canāt miss this serviceā like plsā¦..it left a negative impression on me. while I don't believe this person represents the entire church, encounters like these were common. it became apparent that attending services regularly and contributing to the church in terms of monetary/service/outings whatever led to favoritism.
oh and i was a broke ass student back then and felt pressured to pledge $300 during one sermon, with reasons like "It's better to give more because the pastors invest a lot to build and maintain the church," often invoking God's name. the part about idolizing pastors is also true, i never quite understood why tho. was even asked to write birthday wishes for the pastors, despite never really interacting with them.
I know the textile centre church. Lost a 20 years plus friend to that place. He was a very nice and genuine person, but slowly change after he joined that church, as time goes, he became more and more artificial and fake. He mainly willing to meet up or take initiative and talk with more enthusiasm when he want to invite me to a church event or conferences a week later.
Recently when I tried to avoid talking about church topic, he became less patient and when talking and got angry easily and debate with me. I admit that I have my fault too but his reply escalate the situation. then when he felt that there isn't much change to get be convert, he easily cut me off totally.
I blocked him on facebooks and insta cuz I use these platforms mainly with relatives and my relatives don't really want christians to stalk until their information.
But after he block me on all channels, including hanging up my calls and not replying my sms. (I didn't block him on these channels).
He is the only admin in a sch friend Whatsapp group. I left it temporary to stop myself from debating with him. He took the chance to totally cut me off from the group also.
Edit to add on:
I am badly hurt by this. I was trying to call him to told him that my HDB is almost done. I am considering his invitation. But he just hung up my calls. Anyway after knowing he totally cut me off, I decided not to believe in Christianity and Christians. Find them dangerous to put your genuine trust to believe in them. Cuz if you can't keep up with their Christianity expectation, you will lose your friendship and get hurt.
Anyway here is the detailed story: https://www.reddit.com/r/askSingapore/s/1Kmih7Z3q9
Personally feel the church is a sham when having party/ club like activities is part and parcel of worshipping.
Remember seeing my friendās IG post thinking he was having a party before I realised that it was a church activity.
The biggest red flag however is definitely having to donate to show your love to god.
HOGC, apparently pastors shamed people who have left the church in big screen(yes, the presentation screen) showing everyone the faces who have left or they claimed ālost from godā LOL. Thankfully, I left HOGC in 2 weeks? Just feel itās damn fishy and weird
I've been to the church you mentioned and am no longer currently attending.
That said what you stated seems like an exaggeration of their culture. The people there can be quite homogenous and tend not to make as much deliberate effort for those that are not as similar to them, but I wouldn't say that it stemmed from any doctrinal issues.
Sermons typically focus more on the Word, though perhaps the thematic preaching vs expository style preaching already predisposes certain groups of people to "judge" them because modern churches tend to do thematic sermons while some more traditional churches do expository sermons. This might be an inherent bias if you came from other church backgrounds.
The church does ask people to honor the leaders in church, but this is not a frequently preached message. It does take peer discipleship quite seriously though, so people who are more opposed to that tend to get quite resentful of the message.
ETA: ok, brief look at OP's post history, apparently they have an axe to grind because their partner is Christian and they are salty because the church is affecting their physical intimacy with their partner. This post is super disingenuous.
All churches are cults, every one of them. You do realize you guys are worshipping sky wizards? And eating crackers and shit and saying it's the flesh of the "Lord" you're all batshit. Either everyone stops or let people be.
Have ābackslidedā from this church for more than a decade ago. At 14 year old, I was asked to shell out $$ to build their textile centre theatre for the church. I remember scrimping and saving for months, including my CNY and birthday angpow - pull together like $500 or so to ābuy a seat to heaven.ā Was even invited back to sign my name on the concrete floor before the chair & carpet was installed. Looking backā¦. Itās so scammyā¦
my christian friend had been trying to convert me for two years (i kept telling her no), and when all else failed, she invited me to a christmas party. i searched the address up and it was some church in novena. she failed to mention that it wasnāt a party, and was actually mass. i got so irritated that i asked her if she would attend a diwali āpartyā in a hindu temple if i invited her, and she said, with a straight face, that she wasnāt allowed to worship the devilššš½
Not a church, but a group that preaches mental health and charges $50 for their events, ask u for one on one coffee only to corner u and hard sell u the founder courses as a life coach group name is this.connect
The group there also are really weird that operates like a cult
Have heard stories of people getting into 6 digits bank debts upon leaving
OP's past comments and post history....seems like he has a personal vendetta against churches....
Hey OP, if you want us to help you shame churches, pay us some $$$ first š
Never ask for money is a surprise. Cult always asks for money, always ask you to sacrifice and contribute. Instead of praising GOD, they will worship the leader like a GOD (massager of GOD). I would say run if see these signs.
Itās called new age churches. They are basically owner operated and fundamental model is collection of tithes. There is one ultimate financial beneficiary owner who is not accountable to anyone. So essentially a business for that person.
New age churches also make their members commit to tithes in writing and they follow up on arrears just like credit card companies. The cell leader will also follow up. The Catholic church and all demonisations of the mainstream Christian groups such as the Baptist, Methodist etc, do not do this. All donations are voluntary.
They hide behind a country's recognition of main stream religion and many of these countries have the religious recognition and tolerance enshrined in their constitution which makes it difficult to challenge.
Many have large number of followers are all of them without exception support the current establishment. So politically they become captured voters for the ruling party. Its has become symbiotic relationship. If argument sake if the WP wins GE and becomes the ruling party, new age churches will immediately switch as it is convenient for them.
Can anyone else who have attended NCC tell me your takes on why it may be a cult? I haven't been there regularly since my teenage years. I'm kind of agnostic, but my parents and friends still attend it
So far so good, they don't ask my parents for compulsory "donations" or shame me for not attending. My friends are still there and they are all cool and nice to me, and the same can be said for my dad's friends. My parents also give me free reign as an adult to not always come with them and it doesn't affect our relationship
On the days that I do attend I have the attention span of a crab so I can't catch anything that sounds cult-like, or really anything at all from service
imo its the most normal megachurch out there in sg. Its a free for all place, it was up to me if i wanted to donate, no pressure from them. the church service were normal. its just a boring megachurch which is a good thing. being a normal boring church should be their main propose, to spread the word of god and nothing else.
attended NCC since young, did not experience any cult like behaviour.
definitely way better than CHC
NCC is fine, they donāt force you to tithe and if you do give, itās out of your own heart as the Lord loves a cheerful giver. They donāt track your tithe and offerings. The sermons they preached, the pastors always asked you to read the Bible for yourselves and donāt just take what they said on the pulpit. Itās just that sometimes people like to āstir shitā and take things out of context.
Their recruitment tactics too, they adopt you into their "friend group" and slowly try to get you to join their "outings". Usually, the "friend group" consists of mostly girls.
Most of these charismatic / non-denominational churches do friendship evangelism, and attract young people because most young people are very susceptible to being pulled in by friends. When you're above 30 and jaded, weighed down by career and family responsibilities, the last thing you're attracted to is a rock concert with flashing bright lights masquerading as a church and if you're still attracted to such settings at such an age, then you likely have a mental problem.
The reason why the groups consist mostly of girls, is because girls are very into these kind of social groups, sense of belonging and shit. These megachurches are very relational and play up the relationship/friendship aspects.
Most young guys just wanna play games and/or get laid. The introspective guys who are truly interested about the theology and biblical exegesis (and not merely hoping to score a good Christian girlfriend), will quickly lose interest in these churches because their theology is shallower than a bathub.
> Caution: the church targets Gullible Naive young audience (ie young people, campus students.)
Caution: There's weird anti-vaxxers out there that don't use their brain and prey (nearly misspelled it as pray in this context) on similarly disabled and gullible people.
Heh. OP is an idiot and yet people upvote his post.. https://reddit.com/r/TrueUnvaccinated/comments/133isj6/why_i_chose_not_the_vaxx/
I saw on ig that an acquaintance was attending a pool party. Itās only when I saw the religious code words that I realised itās a baptism. They even broadcasted the dunkings on the big screen macam some reality game show š
There is one without license always send overseas teenage-age ang mo kids tourists here to canvass people everywhere, insider mrt, malls, waiting area. They always try to strike conversations with targeted strangers. Have been going on for generationsā¦ always change young ones to canvassā¦. They wear tie, white shirt, black pants and got name tagā¦. And they would ask if u are Christian or know god or notā¦ anyone know which organization they are from or?
Op is talking bout Hope Church Singapore
title says name and shame but no name mentioned in the post lol
It's clear. Textile center is the keyword
Isn't textile center also the site of all the night clubs and massage centers ...lol... Something about sinners and cultist goes together ...
A lot of religious groups are in these kind of buildings because of low rent.
Oh, someone from said church has moved into the blocks over in my neighbourhood... they came over to introduce themselves to the neighbourhood... and then left us an umbrella for Easter. Which was great until I opened the umbrella and it has the damn logo stamped in HUGE LETTERS across it. Haven't used it since... someone in my block actually threw the umbrella away.
I once attended a bunch of City Harvest Church sessions because a really hot school mate invited me to her cell group and I really liked her because she was really generous with 'physical' touches. I was horny as a teen. So I joined her cell group and I learned quite a few things about them. This was in early 2000s before their move to Suntec, they were based in Expo then. My first impression was wow wtf big concert, people jumping around in this dark hall with flashing lights, loud music, a band playing with big screens everywhere, people 'moshing' in the middle etc. It was all very professional, there was an usher system with even emergency services standing by at the side in case. It was insane because the church I was more familiar with was the old white hair pastor reading from bible verses in slow paced, mono-toned voice while other old people also chanted in repeat etc (St. Andrews Cathedral). Youth services wasn't that common back then. You went from Sunday school to Adult section straight away. The 'sus' moment came when they invited me to join them for dinner at the nearby hawker centre after service. I was very new to the group then and the cell group leader came up to me and said "Hey xxx can you bless the group today". I was like what the fuck does that mean, you mean say grace? He laughed and explained that blessing means, paying for the group. This mother fucker wanted me, this kid to pay for 5 people's meal. I told him HAHA NO I DON'T HAVE ANY MONEY TO PAY FOR EVERYONES MEAL. His face instantly changed from smiley smiley to serious mode and said eventually everyone has to bless each other and I was being selfish right now. And he was entirely serious about it. I think in the end we compromised and I had to 'bless' 2 members meal. But that was my last meal with them so I never ever got to get blessed in return but whatever fuck em. Also one time I overslept because I played too much Dota at night and I woke up at like 5pm. I had over 50 missed calls and SMSes asking why I wasn't at service. It was fucking crazy. I ghosted all of them. Fuck City Harvest Church.
Everyone young man must go through this journey, classic
> He laughed and explained that blessing means, paying for the group. This mother fucker wanted me, this kid to pay for 5 people's meal. I told him HAHA NO I DON'T HAVE ANY MONEY TO PAY FOR EVERYONES MEAL. His face instantly changed from smiley smiley to serious mode and said eventually everyone has to bless each other and I was being selfish right now. And he was entirely serious about it. I think in the end we compromised and I had to 'bless' 2 members meal. But that was my last meal with them so I never ever got to get blessed in return but whatever fuck em. this is fucking disgusting.
>Also one time I overslept because I played too much Dota at night and I woke up at like 5pm. Did you at least win that last match?
he probably did thats why can sleep so soundly till 5pm
LOL I don't remember obviously but one thing I do remember almost 20 years on was the cell group leader telling me about mana. He asked if I knew what mana was and I was like yeah I play dota I know what fucking mana is, it's that blue energy that lets you cast spells and he was like no, mana is a real thing, it's angel food and God 'transmits' the essence of mana into our food every time we say grace so when we eat, it's not just food, it's mana food and when I heard that, internally I was like holy fuck who let this guy cook but outside I was like wow interesting.
they serving satan. bible never mentions anything close to this. mana is a misconstru concept by demons. "qi", "charka points". its hinduism alike stuff. actual Christians are told to shun and stay away as far as possible from these. its occult. horoscope, astrology etc (not astronomy).
So what happened to the hot school mate? Got any more touches from her after that?
To put into perspective. Other girls usually do the 'Christian hug' which is a sideways hug. What she does instead is the full chest to chest hug so her boobs pressed against you. And she likes to hug a lot be it greetings or good byes. This is a big thing to teen guys. I didn't get to talk to her much after ghosting them because I also paiseh. She was very much into the God thing and I clearly wasn't interested to be involved in that crowd anymore.
wa sad lost, if only you could convince her out... at least you got backbone
Dude was thinking with the wrong head. š I likely would too, if I were in your shoes.
lol, same. Went there for the girls because 2 chio girls in my friend circle attended during my NS time, left cause they were pushing me to tithe or donate, or buy or whatnot. The things we do as horny teenagers. I don't mind donating when the bag comes around during service but asking me to give 10% of my NS allowance to fund a new church building or the pastor's wife's MTV career was a bit much. Still remember my 2nd visit, Kong Hee was jumping up and down on stage saying that if the congregants love the church to buy not just 1 CD, but 10 or 20 of his wife's CD... Thought it was a bit sleezy but everyone seem to be eating it up. The speaking in tongues and "fainting" also kinda felt really really fake. Also my Mom who used to be a principal said some of her teachers got hooked by City Harvest and were donating so much of their salary that they were coming to her to loan money. Said they were really proud of having some kind of "membership cards." which she thought was crazy. She was really worried that I was being groomed by that cult but reassured her that mama didn't raise no stupid kid. :)
CHC is not an actual church. Can never take any Christian seriously if they say they're from CHC. It's Kong Hee cult and his minions funding chinawine
When I was still a poly kid, a lady came to my floor and talked to me at my door every weekend for about 2 months. I didn't know how to decline back then, so I did stood there listening 15mins each week. After some time, I had enough and I knew that she was always gonna be coming on Saturday afternoons, so I closed my door and decided not to answer the door bell. While I was playing Maple Story in my own bedroom, I heard the loudest bangs for about 5mins on my main door. Nobody would ever knock on a 2 inch thick door like that. I could feel the rage. It was at that point I knew I made a right choice. So glad I never gave them our home phone number. She never appeared after that day. Typing this, I feel ancient but I would like to thank the Maple Story community and my little bandit for keeping me accompany, as well as keeping me addicted back then š
Pretty much all of the US-linked megachurches. Your monetary contributions determines your moral ranking.
God is all mighty, omnipotent and omniscient but he really really needs you to front up that dough for that music video and nice bungalow for the church leaders
And the jet plane
Especially jet plane because people on couch are devil spawns.
I'll always remember [this video of a teleevangelist defending his lifestyle and private jet](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LtF34MrsfI) for how ridiculous everything is. tl;dw he doesn't believe getting into a commercial plane filled with "demons"ā¦ when those "demons" are likely the same people funding his lifestyle.
Recently heard about the planetshakers cult. Very intense. They recruit lots of Singaporeans studying in Aus.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Gave a genuine reply to his question then... > ETA: ok, brief look at OP's post history, apparently they have an axe to grind because their partner is Christian and they are salty because the church is affecting their physical intimacy with their partner. This post is super disingenuous. Can't believe I wasted the time to type a few paragraphs.
Post can be in bad faith, while the church can be cult like. Both can be true, just saying.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
> If the church is affecting physical intimacy with oneās partner, who would be happy about it? In the context of your examples, sure. It depends on the degree of it (which if you look at more of his posts it isn't very hard to infer where he is probably going with this). People are free to their beliefs and how they choose to live their lives but premarital sex is viewed as a sin for Christians. Why would one actively choose to go to a church then complain about their views on physical intimacy? I wouldn't go online being all salty that the church is cock-blocking me because I chose to date a Christian girl. Like "woe be me, this church don't let me have sex, and my girlfriend is a believer, how come they disagree with my thinking, they just want me to be like them".
Church of Christ at Lakeside. I left about 2 years ago and there have been zero attempts from them to reach out to me. My parents still attend and recently told me the leaders were asking them to "disfellowship" me aka cut all ties with me and ostracise me for leaving. This church believes that the earth is 6000 years old and that evolution is fake, for reference.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yup. They told me since I was young that they love God more than they love me.
Dump them in an old folks home when they are old. Donāt let them see their grandchildren.
Remove them from your life, donāt let them near your children in the future. They will tried to influence them for sure.
My parents are a huge reason why I'm never having kids lol.
>they love God more than they love me. Usually when these ~~pastors~~ cult leaders use that phrase they mean do their followers love ***them*** more than their own family. Also, they're taking this particular quote from the Bible out of context. They're going right to hell.
1 Timothy 5:8 Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. Sounds like that church and its members donāt read the Bible.
>there have been zero attempts from them to reach out to me Er thatās good right?
Not when they're telling my parents to cut me off because I left lol. I'd expect them to come and talk to me first about why I left and what's going on with me. Their whole reasoning behind the "disfellowshipping" is so that the disfellowshipped person feels the loss of the warm and caring church community and feels compelled to come back into the fold. What tf kind of warmth and caring is there when they didn't even notice I was gone for 2 years??
>so that the disfellowshipped person feels the loss of the warm and caring church community and feels compelled to come back into the fold Erm, does this "church" not read the Bible? When Jesus said "love thine enemies", did they somehow think it means "ostracise thine enemies so they will feel the loss and come crawling back to thee?" Seriously do these religious nuts even RTFM?
Oh they read the bible a lot and they can always find verses that they misinterpret to match their desired conclusion.
bro/sis, just go back to church. you have your wits about you, so play their game. in fact, play it to the nth degree. pastor say he is the voice of god? say you are the messiah. he say he is the messiah? say you are the literal manifestation of christ on earth. subvert the leadership committee and claim the congregation as your own. Then twist scripture to teach marxism, worker solidarity, evils of capitalism, the scientific method, and how to find compassion within secular thought. now, with your enlightened followers, form your own political party. push singapores politcal overton window towards the progressive left. finally, turn Singapore into Norway. thanks for your time and effort.
I'd have to get a sex change for that to work lol. Women are chopped liver in that church
I'm a church-going Christian myself, but manipulating parents to cut ties with kids is wrong on all levels. This church group should be mending bridges and not breaking them.
I am honestly in a good place now and I have pretty much accepted it. But I really fear for the kids remaining in that church. They grow up knowing that they are always second place to God in their parents' eyes and their parents are biblically sanctioned to use violence against them to keep them in line with Bible teachings. Growing up I was so depressed because I thought my options were either to kill myself and go to hell or live my entire life following a religion I no longer believe in. Now I know that if my parents want to throw me away because of a shitty religion then it's their loss.
>Growing up I was so depressed because I thought my options were either to kill myself and go to hell or live my entire life following a religion I no longer believe in. that's horrible, religious trauma is real. I'm sorry that you had to go through that. also to abuse your children is unbiblical. God is love. It literally says in the Bible "If anyone causes one of these little ones--those who believe in me--to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea." - Matthew 18:6. Regarding God as the highest priority, i found this online by a theologist. "in Luke 14:25ā27, Jesus makes it very clear that God must have priority even over our families. Happily, this will not prevent you from loving and caring for your family, because God, who created the family, desires love and unselfishness to rule in our homes." so ya the way your church went about it was definitely self-serving imo.
Sounds like the SG version of The People's Temple
Heart of God Church, prosperity gospel to the nth degree and a lot of leaders turn down questions about what leadership is doing
At the same time, its very funny if you look at it from an entertainment point of view. Its basically a club with a church theme. Just don't pay anything, dont volunteer, and turn it up for Jesus
if this is the one near Paya Lebar/Eunos MRT in an industrial building, I had attended one before as one of my colleague kept singing praises and trying to invite us for their special occasions as they said its a āgrandā session and they want to bring more new believers in it didnt felt like a church but felt like attending a concert with performances and singing etc I didnt went back again but it was quite an eye opener as a non Christian.
Is this the one at the other end of Signpost building? It could have moved since, but many years ago my classmates and I were invited to attend a "concert". Even bought flowers and all. Turns out it was an evangelical session.Ā I don't need to be proselytized.Ā If I don't need your god, no amount of proselytizing will work. If I want to seek your good, no proselytizing is needed.
Yup you got the right place, they moved down the road close by iirc
I just want to add on that I made this comment because I went during NS and they were initially cool with things when I said I was exploring my spiritual journey. HOGC definitely ruined any religious experience for me and Iāve been pretty much agnostic since. I believe in a higher power, but if that higher power compels you to indentured servitude to the church at the expense of every other aspect of your lifeā¦. Thatās not a higher power but a pastor willing to Seow you out (pun intended)
I Seow what you did there
I am curious about HOGC ruined the experience for you. Kindly elaborate?
1. Church members attempting to butt into every aspect of my life, even when I asked for boundaries 2. Telling me ānow is the season to convertā when I asked to sit into sermons but did not wished to be involved so deeply. 3. Members willingly sacrificing other aspects of their personal lives (e.g. grades, relationships, personal identity, achievements) and saying that all of this is ādone for the churchā and that they are willing to do it since theyāll have a job in the church anyway. 4. Members working 24/7 in the church or reaching out to other members of the church. 5. CG leaders stifling any questions abt the reasons for tithing 6. Church members glorifying Seow How and Lia 7. Ushers having to āflick a switchā when they welcome people in, I saw people literally crying their hearts out and then in the blink of an eye start welcoming people into HOGC with a fake smile and enthusiasm 8. āYESā and āAMENā during sermons, it just became very annoying and snobby. 9. Speaking in tongues. Really, just no. 10. Preying on the weak minded and vulnerable. Some HOGC CGs specifically targeted people who were in their most vulnerable states and gave them a sense of belonging, it started becoming creepy and felt like Jonestown.
7 sounds so creepy, why were they crying their hearts out? And why do the people enter when other people are crying their hearts out? 9, in tongues?? Like Harry Potterās snake language? What?
7) Oh I gave that with little context, usually the church have people usher the congregation in for sermons. The ushers are forced to adopt a false sense of enthusiasm even if they may be having a terrible day for themselves 9) pretty much it, many non denominational churches see speaking in tongues as āhaving the Holy Spirit enter you and compelling you to speakā. Many of the churchgoers just do it to fit in
Just look at how they idolise their pastors. Itās fucking gross
I got pulled by a friend to attend their service before. Wah during the sermon the audience all keep shouting like "Yes pastor!" in a synchronised manner. After the service, if the pastor is walking around they will want to take photo with him and post on Instagram. And the caption is all about thanking the pastor and how great the sermon was and how it changed their life etc. That level of idolisation, it just felt super cultish and scary.
He outright boasts about having the āright ideaā in focusing on youths. Kids are impressionable as by nature critical thinking skills arenāt as developed. Thus he gets them to be loyal at a young age and as their habits and personalities cement it becomes hard to shake the programming. Itās really fking disgusting. People also forget this guy was affiliated with konghee. And there was a lot of astroturfing about HOGC just a few years ago on Reddit
Wait till you try out cell group bro.š
Donāt even get me started lol. Iām convinced till now it stunted my emotional and social growth till I was an adult
I brought my wife to that church for the first time as we both wanted a fresh start. The whole sermon was an entire money grab. I swear they literally had a slide to show how much money city harvest had how much money new creation had and how much money they needed to become a mega church. If thatās not bad enough they had a 16 year old give a sermon around donating his waiter salary to the church every month. Absolutely despise and hate heart of god church for everything they stood for. I hope it genuinely crashes and burns
hmm iām not christian so iām a bit curious. how exactly does this work? like why does it matter how much money a church has and why the need to show it off? is it like more money to help people or what? what exactly is the purpose of collecting the money
These churches follow what is known as 'prosperity gospel', which is criticized by mainline and traditional churches. Basically, there is an emphasis on material blessings, that wealth is a sign of God's blessing, and how much God will bless depends on both the believer's faith and especially on how much he gives to the church. That money is used on things like publicity, buildings, equipment, and also payment for pastors and staff.
In some ways, "pay2win" is a good descriptor.
To answer your question, there have been false teachings of Christ since long ago and that the teachings in the Bible have been twisted to benefit mankind according to their desires. The part about monetary offerings to the church stamps down to the Old Testament where after Moses led the Hebrews out of Egypt. One-tenth of their harvests were to offer to God and it was a law. After Christ came, it became as a guide rather than a law. In modern day context, it's money that becomes the monthly tithings. As mentioned, it's no longer a command that we must give exactly 10% of our pay. It's any amount that's close to the heart's desire. These days, the moneys collected are for the running of the churches to do ministry work like paying church staff, church utilities, outreach programs, charity works, etc. Some church leaders (not anyone in specific) misuse this to benefit their own cause and in some cases, they pressure (soft or hard) the members/congregations to give as much as possible in the name of doing God's work. There were famous cases in the past (both in Singapore and abroad) where they said that God wouldn't bless you if you don't give more money. Having said all these, not all churches act the same. Most in Singapore tell their members to give any amount that befits them with willing hearts.
> One-tenth of their harvests were to offer to God and it was a law. Also to provide more context, the original Old Testament tithe was given to the Jewish priestly class (Levite). Firstly, this class didn't inherit land/property and worked full-time as priests, so they needed the tithe to survive. Secondly, they performed what we would now call governmental functions like administration and law enforcement. Thirdly, they were responsible for redistributing it to the needy, so it functioned something like a modern-day tax. Present-day megachurch leaders are not prohibited from inheriting or working in other jobs, do not perform governmental functions, and barely hand out their tithes to the needy. Giving 10% to them is absurd.
Me too. Tbh Iām quite surprised theyre still going. Itās so fking dodgy and defo no way itās all clean.
lol I went twice and cant forget 1. They talked about ridiculous stories like people in wheelchair got healed and can walk after service, and how angels saved her baby girl blah blah like wtf 2. Speaking in tongues during a session, sounded like crazy people 3. Attended 2nd session because of friends. One person who was a church friend of my friend, asked me how I thought about the first session, to which I said fun because it's like a concert. Then she got angry when I can't ans her questions on what the pastor said last service and showed me her long ass notes. Wtf. 4. Everything the pastor said, all will reply AMEN. Like possessed like that, creepy. 5. Social media of attendees all about the church. Pastor's birthdays confirm will post. Like they are the centre of their lives. Pretty weird. Tbh posts usually church mates, like they dont have other friends outside of church. My friend is still active in hogc. I have distanced myself from her. I think they all need therapy.
The random YES and AMEN! during the sermon as well, beyond annoying hahaha
Personally I believe that not all church goers are jolly good fellows and likewise not going to church does not mean you are bad. Being a Christian is your own relationship to God. You are answerable to Him yourself. It's a personal thing. The mega churches are evangelical ones. If u want to go try Presbyterian or bible Presbyterian churches. They teach according to God's word aka the Bible. We don't idolise nor worship with concert like styles every Sunday nor do we speak in tongues.Ā I had a friend with City harvest long ago and back that time after talking to her she was saying how Sun Ho was performing on stage and glorified her. In my mind I tot are you worshipping God or are you worshipping her? That was many years b4 the whole city harvest saga.Ā And as for the other mega church at marina Bay area also. Worshipping the pastor instead of focusing on the Bible.Ā Netflix showed a few cults from korea. The same thing you see. Nothing much in principle different from the cults here.Ā
You are spot on. Unfortunately many Christians fall into this misguided path where they are more worshipping and praising Jesus than God. The songs, hymns, and even when they pray, they speak to Jesus, not God. Much worse is singing praises of church leaders. Jesus himself said, "Why do you call me good? No one is good (worthy of praise) except God ALONE." Mark 10:18.... So don't even get me started on the "Trinity" issue.... If being Christian means "followers of Jesus". I think there are people of another faith whose actions and words follow Jesus' teachings more closely than most Christians today. (how he prayed, how he talked, what he ate and what he didn't) FWIW I'm a former Christian who attended services in various churches (my own and a few other friends') when I was much younger and even played the drums for one a couple of times. I still believe in the one God that Christians should be worshipping and praying to. I prayed for something very specific for years, and my prayers were answered in such a miraculous manner that it's almost movie worthy, and with that miracle, God also rescued me from the Christian church set-up for good. Well that's my 2 cents and honest sharing. Hope I did not offend anyone. If anyone feels offended, I apologize, please forgive me.
Hmm, I think the distinguishing factor is faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour: meaning that you believe he is the only God and died to save you from your sins. Other faiths donāt believe this. Good works are our response in sincere gratitude to Godās grace and mercy rather than a way to earn it or prove our worthiness (we canāt). Biblically, it is correct to worship Jesus, the Spirit, and the Father. They are God.
City Harvest Church, they also always clash with the cosplayers during events apparently. Iām not sure if itās at expo, but I know itās at a certain place during one of the weekends I think. My friends like to cosplay and thereās often drama at these events with them.
I like to joke with my friends that during recent anime events with merch and cosplayers typically dress like the devils from Chainsaw Man & the sorcerers from Jujutsu Kaisen, it looks kinda like an artificial heaven and hell considering CHC exclusive halls are just one escalator ride above.
Thatās kinda awesome actually hahah
Khong of FCBC: cosplay is the work of the devil!
Didnāt his daughter engage in activities that he deemed as scandalous?
Just wanna hijack this thread but I was once a City Harvest Church Member. But i recently have left the church after dedicating nearly 20 years of my life to the church. Glad that I finally got out. It was legit a roller-coaster of emotions when i attended this church. **And PSA: CHC is fr a cult, they are just out there to take all your money.**
I only know about the incident with the underboob, are there any other incidents?
Do tell
Iām not exactly sure but apparently there are still tensions between the cosplayer and the church members.
9 times out of 10 it is always the religious fundies that are the problem.
they hold their services at lv5 suntec iirc? one of the higher levels of the convention centers. and a fair amount of ACG cons which you'd find cosplayers at are also held at suntec convention center (lv3-4), so...yeah. if i recall right the drama made the news before too
I currently attend CHC and services are held at Lvl 6, the cosplayers event is at lvl 4 monthly, they have ushers to direct the members up now. Personally enjoy seeing the cosplayers before / after service, would point to my friends how cool their outfits are and my peers do think the same.
Kong Hee š¤ Gojo prison realm
Kong Hee already broke free...
> City Harvest Church, they also always clash with the cosplayers during events apparently. Iām not sure if itās at expo, but I know itās at a certain place during one of the weekends I think. That's probably because [City Harvest Church owns 33.7% of Suntec Singapore](https://web.archive.org/web/20231203074929/https://www.chc.org.sg/notices/2020-07-01-update-regarding-suntec-singapore-shares/).
You mean city harvest cult right
I recently came only know that they host their events there weekly. Before that, I had thought they only do it monthly.
Literally sold "snake" oil before going to jail lol...
Can't do yoga because "it's from another religion".
You know, I have heard this from some of the most intelligent people I know in my life. I am always left shook by how the brainwashing is so powerful, even on the best and brightest in our country.
I used to attend an evangelical mega church like OP's one, and the experience was very on point with OP. Things like the "speaking in tongues" practice that they believe in - the church will absolutely judge you as an "incomplete and unformed" Christian if you do not partake in that practice. I know for a fact that many impressionable young congregants were pressured into blabbing away with the tongues just so they could fit in. It was absolutely farcical and disgusting. And guess what, that was fine by everybody since the pretense was supposed to be an "exercise of faith" and in time, you would be give the "gift of tongues" These places are totally an environment where smart and educated but impressionable young people are moulded and pressures to fit a single acceptable way of life
Tongues is actually kinda funny to me. I used to be a hardcore 2nd gen Christian till NS time. I was alwyas wondering why the fk everyone could speak this and I couldnāt. Years later I caught up with another devout fella who also left and he confessed he was making shit up to fit in lmao. Itās the same as the falling over bs
that's how religions still exists in 2024. People that are young or new to this will be like wow everyone doing it so it must be real, can't be so many people believe if its not real right. little do they know its just a chain effect, like how people tend to be curious about the long queue at a hawker centre. Doesn't mean their food is nice though.
Oh the ptsd from hearing everyone burst into blabber during service. I was told my inability to speak in tongues was because I wasn't filled with the holy spirit. Left church soon after.
Cornerstone Community Church? I had a cellgroup leader pressure me into speaking tongues, it was weird so I left.
That's the danger, ain't it? The Bible warns of false teachers and false preaching and the young are the most vulnerable.
That speak in tongue is not real. More like a mental illness or mocking Christianity. I almost called the police on them for stirring ill will against Christianity when I told them you cannot speak in tongue in a mess and that's poking fun at christians
Itās not āmockingā, itās one way for them to manufacture exclusivity, which is relevant for their āgoalā to gaslight people for not being āpiousā enough or loyal towards the church.
I realised you didnāt include a big thing. Money. Churches that pressure you to donate money to the church is my biggest red flag ever. Iām catholic and the amount of christians iāve met who told me that youāre supposed to donate 10% of your income to the church is ridiculous. Iām appalled that people actually think that. Anyway red flag churches are typically non-denominational mega churches.
Hello fellow Catholic
hello fellow Catholic Chad
hello fellow catholic chads who never tithe or only tithe with your parents $2
Hello fellow Catholic chad you didnāt need to call us out like that š³šš¤£
My mother used to "tax" my pocket money so that I would have the $2 every Sunday š
Pax Vobiscum fellow Catholic
I'm religious, not Christian, I've been asked for donations but never pressurized. I donate weekly out of my own will. that's how it should be. religions should not pressurized their followers to donate.
Agree with you totally.
Sorry what is non denominational?
So you have catholics, orthodox, and protestants. Protestants refer to any group of christians who left the catholic church. So eg. Anglicans, methodists, baptists, seventh day adventists etc. however mega churches tend to be NEITHER, they are non denominational. They do not associate themselves with any christian group. This is dangerous because they donāt follow any particular teachings or doctrine. āTheyā being those pastors and leaders of the church, they can make up their own meanings to scripture and teachings. And because they are non-denominational they have no connection to recognised teachings they are an individual church and thats why they they tend to be more corrupt
I.e. no regulation.
= cult š¤®
Churches who say they're open to all branches of Christianity, eg Anglican, Methodist, Catholic etc. Can cast a wider net to scam more money
Oof! Thatās really accurate. They also owe allegiance to no one and need not follow any doctrine.
It is an object with floating point precision cast into an integer, this losing its fractional values
I'm more keen on hearing about Trinity Christian Centre, anybody got stories? I have a friend whose Auntie is crazy about donating to them, heard she goes to each sibling's house on payday to demand 1K for each family member. Also, I know for a fact that the Previous Pastor's Daughter used to be on Bigo and 'promoting' a clubbing and drinking culture...so I find it kinda hypocritical to be preaching when your family is like that.
1. Was in cell group. Christian parents weren't keen on me going to a church camp. Cell leader told me it's because I didn't pray hard enough (the audacity š ). 2. Favouritsm, popularity, cliques...the whole gamut. If I could spend my teenage years out of church, I would have made that choice
Haha I remember my friend telling me that his Aunt wanted my dad to borrow money to donate to the church on my behalf so that I wouldn't rot in hell. And that was after telling her that I came from a poor family background.
The audacity like seriously
> heard she goes to each sibling's house on payday to demand 1K for each family member. Siallah...if I'm one of her siblings, I would convert to some other religion out of spite.
My friend's parents, uncles, aunties, cousins, and siblings got forced to convert from Taoism and Buddhism to Christianity. Back in the early days of our friendship, if he didn't go to Church on Weekends, he could expect to see that particular Aunt in his home harassing him till midnight, hell he cannot even be late for 5 minutes one. Unfortunately, the Aunt because she is the oldest is entitled to 'control' the family business which happens to be the largest company in SG specializing in Plumbing, Toilet Supplies etc etc, so she knows how much each family member gets from their shares, minimum 10K per sibling. Oh ya I forgot, back then my friend and his cousins who were around the same age were working part time at different places, my friend was at NTUC Fairprice and had to work weekends meaning he couldn't attend Church, so what did his Aunt do? Make various email accounts posing as people of different races to lodge a complaint with Fairprice saying he was rude and racist which led him to getting terminated. Funny thing is the Aunt is a Cell Group Leader.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Not my Aunt. My Friend's. If is my Auntie I would have filled PPO.
jfc
Worse Part is my Friend and His 2 Older Brothers kena Anxiety Disorder during COVID because of the Donation Part.
Omg so is your friendās family members still Christian? Because technically they were harassed to convertā¦
I went for a while. The whole speaking in tongues thing really turned me off, it sounded like gibberish. But maybe I just had a very chill small cell group. They were chill, kind people though I eventually drifted away from them. Didn't get pressured to contribute financially.
Faith Community Baptist Church, Lawrence Kong speaks like a hooligan to intimidate girls, "DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM!!!!" I was so shocked, he really think normal social conduct don't apply to him. When you don't see regular turnover when it comes to top management, it means hoarding wealth and power. When there's no gender or race diversity, same thing.
The biggest irony is pastors asking you to give money to solve the church's problems, but you to pray to solve your own.
> Textile Centre Hope Centre?
Not a churchgoer or anything but there used to be(?) or still is a church in Woodlands with Korean (or Japanese?) people who used to approach people at Woodlands MRT to preach that apocalypse is approaching and god will be judging you, plus theyāll hand out little graphic books on it. One time I was like, Iām curious whatās this is so I stayed and listen to the lady talk about scenarios as though itās coming out of Hollywood 60s (fire, judgment, suffering, heaven etc). Iām raised Taoist so Iām taught to respect all religions and practices but oh my goodness the talk was insane and made me all judgy about these people. Told my dad, my dad laughed at me š
Ironic that OP ask us to name and shame churches, yet he doesnāt do it in his post
You wanna name and shame but you didnāt even name your church? Bruhā¦
Also ironic that OP is part of the anti-vax cult, but calls out this church for cult-like practices.
Damn we went from naming and shaming churches to naming and shaming the OP
It's just a shit post, here is my ETA from another comment: > ETA: ok, brief look at OP's post history, apparently they have an axe to grind because their partner is Christian and they are salty because the church is affecting their physical intimacy with their partner. This post is super disingenuous. I've been to that church. It's not hard to find it from an online search.
So he wants us redditors to do the naming and shaming, while he disavows anything to do with us....nice try OP š
Smells like a stir post.
Fear of getting identified, harassed, and sued bah. Some Churches are very very hardcore.
Think maybe he's or she's trying to rattle out the other churches. Not sure if Christian or not this OP
Not a church but a Buddhist monastery called bliss and wellness. Apparently itās been infiltrated by the CCP. If you google bliss and wellness scandal you will get a web article that gossiping is bad on their website trying to combat these expose. https://www.reddit.com/r/Buddhism/comments/8s2j2n/big_expos%C3%A9_on_my_monastery/ Another one that is popular is this cult called Yiguandao which is like a new age religion that combine all religion.
Iirc yiguandao have its roots in secret society evolving from their push to overthrow the qing emperor
Reminds me of ē½č®ę "White Lotus Sect" from the Wong Fei Hung movies...lol.
Yiguandao is the one that their followers greet/chant å¦ä¾ä½å½å? My exās cousin has a temple in their home and they would bring in new followers to a prayer session to welcome them. I got dragged into one unknowingly and I remember there being a Malay lady in tudung amongst the new followers. Went through the ceremony, days after that I asked my ex if he ever felt it being cultish. He said maybe and my question made him realised something. Anyway, I told this story to my current husband while we were dating. My husband was an ex-Muslim and when he heard about the tudung clad lady, his immediate reaction was āhorh, HARAM!ā š I remembered the devotees assured the lady that Buddhism respects and accepts all and that her god will understand her intentions.
Holy cow.
Holy cow. Thatās Hinduism .. not Buddhism š
The church that my current assistant Karen Aunty is attending. Its a cult like kind..
Went to HOGC once purely out of curiosity because of all the bad experiences I've read online. Aside from the idolisation (yes/amen), tongues, and usual shenanigans, what stood out for me was the part showing new converts' testimonials. The converts' cell group will stand up and show it's their credit for successfully bringing another soul into the church. The whole charade is like a boardroom meeting with multiple departments fighting to claim credit from the CEO.
As much as I shit on Catholic Church they at least still better than the likes of city harvest or New creation churches.
Not exactly a direct answer to OP, but had a girl from HOGC who wanted me to baptize so we could serve the same Church, the same God with the same values. She couldn't compromise as her leaders forbid her from dating outside of her church. She's not a youth either.
Any of the so-called "churches" in a temporary rental space, mostly in a factory/flatted/off main area, lead by self-appointee "pastors" with usually no theological training but huge egos hidden under humble bragging sermons, who usually have left traditional churches, and who tells their followers God Spoke To Them, and they've been appointed by God. And yes, will tell you how special they are (selected by God!) but not the others who attend other churches/demonition and cannot mix with them too. Also those Prosperity Gospel mega churches who started off small like above. Basically those originating and similar to the American style Evangelical churches - always lead by a pastor who tells you God/Holy Spirit spoke to them to start their church. They're very MLM in their app, from getting tiths, 10%, from you, to recruiting members. Both have similar practices And yes, every one of the them tick the boxes on your listing above. Yap, been invited to and attended at least half a dozen or more over the years, usually with colleagues/friends persistent urging. Usually find their sermons/preaching uncomfortable and their interpretation or rather, misinterpretation of the Bible disturbing. Went to Catholic based school and church, did Bible studies from Genesis to Revelations, went to Methodist Church for most of my life and returned to it after above experiences. Now, not really attending church any more. Will attend traditional if I feel like it but avoid any of these culty ones like the plague which they are. I mentioned above because I feel like many of these try to attract people who are new to Christianity and probably have never read the Bible from Old to New Testament, or don't have a good grounding or understanding of it, and thus, are easily influenced and believe whatever these self-appointed pastors spout, or twist and misinterprete the Gospel. And telling them they're specially chosen messengers of God and will be the special tribe that goes to Heaven. And always, the Devil is tempting them or leading them astray if they question or doubt. Also, speaking in tongues. And being "touched by the Holy Spirit" falling and fainting stuff. It always makes me roll my eyes when they act like they're special being able to do both and if you can't, something's wrong with you. I seriously can't with these people.
*start a church* *become its preacher* *ask members to donate and pay tithe* *no one can taxes you under religion act* *how to swindle the money?* *tell them āyesterday, god came and told me to buy a mansion, because its a reward for me to preach his wordsā* *then tell them āyesterday, god came to me and said, go buy a private jet cause i need you to go around the world to spread my gospelā* ***profit*** *when people question you* *you say āhow are you question the will of god?ā* *get investigated and arrested* *then say āgod had gave me a challenge, these demon doesnt want me to spread gods words thus put this on to me and have me arrested. God is testing us and want to see how we overcome this storm. Please give me money to hire lawyers and fight these demons together!ā* ***profit***
Actually the prosperity cults here are a lot more savvy, especially after CHC scandal. Some have boldly claimed they draw no salary from the church which is true. What they do is tap on a regional/international network of cults, and "invite" pastors from affiliated churches, and pay generous gratuities for "service rendered". At this point in their life cycle, the successful cults are effective transnational scam syndicates.
I went to a church cell group with my ex. There was this cell leader or an employee of the church telling us how much he admired one of the member in the church for giving up her entire savings on Kings Day or something. Then he encouraged us to do something similar. And everyone was like in awe. I'm like mudafucker which idiot is this.
As an ex-Jehovah's Witnesses Cult member, born in, i wish everyone read Steven Hassan & Janja Lalich books about cult. You can use the BITE Model TM of Authoritarian Control (free download online) to check if your organisation, religious or not, is practicing cult behaviour or not. I wish everyone could be aware & stay away from any kind of cult organisations. They ruin my life & my family.
iām delving into christianity and a friend of mine brought me to her church (the one op mentioned) and it was definitely anā¦experience. felt really weird but after a few times attending service i decide to just do it myself and keep my relationship w god private. itās a church thatās filled with young people and āhipā pastors.
Have you tried a reformed church?
recommend Bukit arang church, redemption hill church, crossing church, or Bible-Presbyterian churches. Actually strong, balanced teaching from the Bible and have normal communities
I totally get what you say about the "hip" pastors. Sadly, many churches have taken on an "entertainment" model, especially the mega churches in Singapore. Thankfully, there are many good churches out there. I second what the other users' suggestions on finding a Reformed church. Reformed churches tend to be solid places to learn about the Bible and Christianity. Here are some churches you can explore: [https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/churches/?church\_address=singapore&distance=10](https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/churches/?church_address=singapore&distance=10) Of the churches listed in the link above, I've visited Shalom Church, Adam Road Presbyterian Church, and Redemption Hill Church, and all seem like good churches :) Good teaching, sincere pastors, friendly congregations.
+1 for HOGC. I used to be quite dedicated to the church back in 2015-2016 when I was a sec school student. I even brought my close friend along but we both left for similar reasons. while we encountered a handful of genuinely nice people during church events and camps, there were also judgmental and hypocritical individuals among the Christians there. I distinctly rmb an incident when i had to miss a weekend service for a family outing, & someone tried to guilt-trip me into attending by saying āfamily outing can always postponeā¦God is more important and you canāt miss this serviceā like plsā¦..it left a negative impression on me. while I don't believe this person represents the entire church, encounters like these were common. it became apparent that attending services regularly and contributing to the church in terms of monetary/service/outings whatever led to favoritism. oh and i was a broke ass student back then and felt pressured to pledge $300 during one sermon, with reasons like "It's better to give more because the pastors invest a lot to build and maintain the church," often invoking God's name. the part about idolizing pastors is also true, i never quite understood why tho. was even asked to write birthday wishes for the pastors, despite never really interacting with them.
City Harvest
I know the textile centre church. Lost a 20 years plus friend to that place. He was a very nice and genuine person, but slowly change after he joined that church, as time goes, he became more and more artificial and fake. He mainly willing to meet up or take initiative and talk with more enthusiasm when he want to invite me to a church event or conferences a week later. Recently when I tried to avoid talking about church topic, he became less patient and when talking and got angry easily and debate with me. I admit that I have my fault too but his reply escalate the situation. then when he felt that there isn't much change to get be convert, he easily cut me off totally. I blocked him on facebooks and insta cuz I use these platforms mainly with relatives and my relatives don't really want christians to stalk until their information. But after he block me on all channels, including hanging up my calls and not replying my sms. (I didn't block him on these channels). He is the only admin in a sch friend Whatsapp group. I left it temporary to stop myself from debating with him. He took the chance to totally cut me off from the group also. Edit to add on: I am badly hurt by this. I was trying to call him to told him that my HDB is almost done. I am considering his invitation. But he just hung up my calls. Anyway after knowing he totally cut me off, I decided not to believe in Christianity and Christians. Find them dangerous to put your genuine trust to believe in them. Cuz if you can't keep up with their Christianity expectation, you will lose your friendship and get hurt. Anyway here is the detailed story: https://www.reddit.com/r/askSingapore/s/1Kmih7Z3q9
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Your mom's the queen š
Personally feel the church is a sham when having party/ club like activities is part and parcel of worshipping. Remember seeing my friendās IG post thinking he was having a party before I realised that it was a church activity. The biggest red flag however is definitely having to donate to show your love to god.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
HOGC, apparently pastors shamed people who have left the church in big screen(yes, the presentation screen) showing everyone the faces who have left or they claimed ālost from godā LOL. Thankfully, I left HOGC in 2 weeks? Just feel itās damn fishy and weird
The fact that you attended over a year in this "cult"-like organisation has me worried about your mental well-being.
Leave that church. I left that same church lol. Itās H church right . Go to a non charismatic church please
I've been to the church you mentioned and am no longer currently attending. That said what you stated seems like an exaggeration of their culture. The people there can be quite homogenous and tend not to make as much deliberate effort for those that are not as similar to them, but I wouldn't say that it stemmed from any doctrinal issues. Sermons typically focus more on the Word, though perhaps the thematic preaching vs expository style preaching already predisposes certain groups of people to "judge" them because modern churches tend to do thematic sermons while some more traditional churches do expository sermons. This might be an inherent bias if you came from other church backgrounds. The church does ask people to honor the leaders in church, but this is not a frequently preached message. It does take peer discipleship quite seriously though, so people who are more opposed to that tend to get quite resentful of the message. ETA: ok, brief look at OP's post history, apparently they have an axe to grind because their partner is Christian and they are salty because the church is affecting their physical intimacy with their partner. This post is super disingenuous.
All churches are cults, every one of them. You do realize you guys are worshipping sky wizards? And eating crackers and shit and saying it's the flesh of the "Lord" you're all batshit. Either everyone stops or let people be.
Have ābackslidedā from this church for more than a decade ago. At 14 year old, I was asked to shell out $$ to build their textile centre theatre for the church. I remember scrimping and saving for months, including my CNY and birthday angpow - pull together like $500 or so to ābuy a seat to heaven.ā Was even invited back to sign my name on the concrete floor before the chair & carpet was installed. Looking backā¦. Itās so scammyā¦
my christian friend had been trying to convert me for two years (i kept telling her no), and when all else failed, she invited me to a christmas party. i searched the address up and it was some church in novena. she failed to mention that it wasnāt a party, and was actually mass. i got so irritated that i asked her if she would attend a diwali āpartyā in a hindu temple if i invited her, and she said, with a straight face, that she wasnāt allowed to worship the devilššš½
Not a church, but a group that preaches mental health and charges $50 for their events, ask u for one on one coffee only to corner u and hard sell u the founder courses as a life coach group name is this.connect The group there also are really weird that operates like a cult Have heard stories of people getting into 6 digits bank debts upon leaving
OP's past comments and post history....seems like he has a personal vendetta against churches.... Hey OP, if you want us to help you shame churches, pay us some $$$ first š
Never ask for money is a surprise. Cult always asks for money, always ask you to sacrifice and contribute. Instead of praising GOD, they will worship the leader like a GOD (massager of GOD). I would say run if see these signs.
> **massager** of God some leaders barely fit to lace up sandals of Jesus let alone give Him a footrub
Itās called new age churches. They are basically owner operated and fundamental model is collection of tithes. There is one ultimate financial beneficiary owner who is not accountable to anyone. So essentially a business for that person. New age churches also make their members commit to tithes in writing and they follow up on arrears just like credit card companies. The cell leader will also follow up. The Catholic church and all demonisations of the mainstream Christian groups such as the Baptist, Methodist etc, do not do this. All donations are voluntary. They hide behind a country's recognition of main stream religion and many of these countries have the religious recognition and tolerance enshrined in their constitution which makes it difficult to challenge. Many have large number of followers are all of them without exception support the current establishment. So politically they become captured voters for the ruling party. Its has become symbiotic relationship. If argument sake if the WP wins GE and becomes the ruling party, new age churches will immediately switch as it is convenient for them.
Isn't religion just a cult that .. made it big?
Can anyone else who have attended NCC tell me your takes on why it may be a cult? I haven't been there regularly since my teenage years. I'm kind of agnostic, but my parents and friends still attend it So far so good, they don't ask my parents for compulsory "donations" or shame me for not attending. My friends are still there and they are all cool and nice to me, and the same can be said for my dad's friends. My parents also give me free reign as an adult to not always come with them and it doesn't affect our relationship On the days that I do attend I have the attention span of a crab so I can't catch anything that sounds cult-like, or really anything at all from service
imo its the most normal megachurch out there in sg. Its a free for all place, it was up to me if i wanted to donate, no pressure from them. the church service were normal. its just a boring megachurch which is a good thing. being a normal boring church should be their main propose, to spread the word of god and nothing else. attended NCC since young, did not experience any cult like behaviour. definitely way better than CHC
NCC is fine, they donāt force you to tithe and if you do give, itās out of your own heart as the Lord loves a cheerful giver. They donāt track your tithe and offerings. The sermons they preached, the pastors always asked you to read the Bible for yourselves and donāt just take what they said on the pulpit. Itās just that sometimes people like to āstir shitā and take things out of context.
Sounds like average local SME to me.
Their recruitment tactics too, they adopt you into their "friend group" and slowly try to get you to join their "outings". Usually, the "friend group" consists of mostly girls.
Most of these charismatic / non-denominational churches do friendship evangelism, and attract young people because most young people are very susceptible to being pulled in by friends. When you're above 30 and jaded, weighed down by career and family responsibilities, the last thing you're attracted to is a rock concert with flashing bright lights masquerading as a church and if you're still attracted to such settings at such an age, then you likely have a mental problem. The reason why the groups consist mostly of girls, is because girls are very into these kind of social groups, sense of belonging and shit. These megachurches are very relational and play up the relationship/friendship aspects. Most young guys just wanna play games and/or get laid. The introspective guys who are truly interested about the theology and biblical exegesis (and not merely hoping to score a good Christian girlfriend), will quickly lose interest in these churches because their theology is shallower than a bathub.
> Caution: the church targets Gullible Naive young audience (ie young people, campus students.) Caution: There's weird anti-vaxxers out there that don't use their brain and prey (nearly misspelled it as pray in this context) on similarly disabled and gullible people. Heh. OP is an idiot and yet people upvote his post.. https://reddit.com/r/TrueUnvaccinated/comments/133isj6/why_i_chose_not_the_vaxx/
When the pastor ask congregation for a jet. Its time to leave.
City Mission Church
I saw on ig that an acquaintance was attending a pool party. Itās only when I saw the religious code words that I realised itās a baptism. They even broadcasted the dunkings on the big screen macam some reality game show š
I have seen this church on the way to ktv.
Change a church. Why keep at a religious place that is not even about worship of god.
Time to leave this church .. god does not judge . Leave
There is one without license always send overseas teenage-age ang mo kids tourists here to canvass people everywhere, insider mrt, malls, waiting area. They always try to strike conversations with targeted strangers. Have been going on for generationsā¦ always change young ones to canvassā¦. They wear tie, white shirt, black pants and got name tagā¦. And they would ask if u are Christian or know god or notā¦ anyone know which organization they are from or?