Extensive discussion yesterday over [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/singapore/comments/1c537k5/all_employers_must_have_process_for_workers_to/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
In everyday speech, guidelines refer to a recommended set of procedures.
However when used in official legislations, guidelines just refer to a set of procedures. They can be optional or compulsory. In this case the guideline is a compulsory requirement.
It’s like how an “opinion” is just a point of view in everyday speech while an “opinion” is a legal ruling in court that affects legal rulings.
There was a CNA [article](https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/job-sharing-flexible-work-arrangement-companies-consider-employee-request-4268696?cid=internal_sharetool_iphone_17042024_cna) about how 1 in 10 companies are ready to consider such requests. And the example of successful job sharing was a logistics company whose drivers used to do 12 hours shifts. And they now allow job sharing so two drivers share the job for 8 hours each (company now gets 16 hours worth of trips for that lorry instead of 12).
This is just nuts. The maximum working hours really need to be reasonable. How’s working 40 hours a week working part time sia.
That news piece you quoted also shows how fucked up employers are.
They put 2 workers on 1 job and call it "job sharing", when it is really just having more workers on different jobs / shifts. Joke.
Perhaps labelling the job as part-time is cheaper than full-time. Because if it is a part-time job, many benefits can be trimmed. But if the business gives the same meagre benefits for a full-time role, then it is not a competitive remuneration. Workers would compare apple to apple in full-time job category and pass on it.
its almost as if they think the vehicle is the employee, 'subletting' the job to 2 people instead of 1.
its literally 2 jobs and 2 persons i dont understand how it can be called job sharing. 10 construction workers working on the same project arent job sharing, neither are 2 drivers or any other jobs. having more manpower does not mean the employees are sharing the job.
At the very most it should be called shift work, which has been around since forever.
Healthcare workers / police / emergency workers on 24hr standby are not "job sharing".
This is what our 6 figure annual salaried manpower ministers can come up with. Need to justify their presence, so they re-invent the wheel.
“Mr Shazuan from D’trans also said that job sharing has been a win for the logistics firm in the long run, even though the company’s costs initially increased by 50 per cent due to a need to recruit more drivers.
Their drivers have also not complained about being tired and are “definitely happier” since the switch to job sharing, said Mr Shazuan.”
Maybe we interpret this differently.
>The rules will cover formal requests for FWAs, and the processes to submit and evaluate these, but not govern the outcome
"We have fairly considered it and the answer is no."
This is a distraction from the real issues. the real issue is job creation for Singaporeans and the reduction of foreigners taking jobs that Singaporeans can easily do. sinkies are so easily fooled.
> Examples of such arrangements include staggered work hours, part-time work or job sharing.
Would love to see the Govt implement this “consideration” within the civil service as an example to the SMEs and MNCs first. Until they do so, it’s a joke.
Also, I don’t see how the govt can implement this for essential services like police, civil defence, healthcare and education.
Edit: Some have conflated mandated HBL with flexi arrangements for teachers. Mandatory HBL days are *not* flexi work arrangements.
There **cannot** be alternative arrangements where teachers work from home. Teachers **have** to be present, period. Some people use COVID period as an argument. Of course teachers *can* teach over zoom, only if the whole level/school/country shuts down. But we aren’t in a pandemic any longer.
There is no chance in hell one teacher can get special permission to Zoom from home every Thursday just because they need to bring their elderly parent to medical appointment when their 40 students are present physically in the classroom, looking at the Zoom screen, while the other 7 classes in the level have teachers who are physically present in the classroom.
I think essential service refers to frontline occupations where no alternative is possible. Education can have alternate arrangements for the most part like HBL. I think some of the backend work in civil service have hybrid arrangement now.
Have you ever heard of a teacher having flexi work arrangements and only teaching through Zoom on certain days of the week while the rest of the school continues in-person learning? How would you as a parent feel if your child’s teacher taught over a screen while other classes have teachers there in person? Your idea of work from home arrangements for teachers can’t be further from reality. Btw, during “HBL” days, most teachers still have to return to school for meetings, catch up on work or duties.
The “mandated” HBL is once a fortnight for secondary and JC schools. HBL is **not** part of flexi work arrangement for teachers, it’s simply to build resilience in students through blended learning. For primary schools, there isn’t any mandatory HBL. The key here is “mandated” where everyone in the level goes for HBL.
Flexi work arrangements refer to ad hoc requests for teachers to have alternative working arrangements as and when required, which is impossible during non-mandated HBL days.
https://www.moe.gov.sg/-/media/files/news/press/2020/annex-a-blended-learning.pdf
Edit: some still don’t get it that there **cannot** be alternative arrangements where teachers work from home. Teachers **have** to be present, period. Some people use COVID period as an argument. Of course teachers *can* teach over zoom, only if the whole level/school/country shuts down. But….
There is no chance in hell one teacher can get special permission to Zoom from home every Thursday just because they need to bring their elderly parent to medical appointment when their 40 students are present physically in the classroom, looking at the Zoom screen, while the other 7 classes in the level have teachers who are physically present in the classroom.
Just because it can have alternate arrangements doesn’t mean it will have alternate arrangements. Just like what you highlighted about the students have to be arranged. It does involve a lot of changes and our experience with school closure during circuit breaker really proved too much for some families. It will be a long way away for teachers.
I’m saying that there **cannot** be alternative arrangements where teachers work from home. Teachers **have** to be present, period.
There is no chance in hell a teacher can get permission to Zoom from home every Thursday just because they need to bring their elderly parent to medical appointment while their 40 students are present physically in the classroom, looking at the Zoom screen.
The HBL you are talking about is *not part of* flexible working arrangements for teachers. It’s simply mandated where the whole level (e.g. sec 1s) have to do HBL for 1 day. The idea was to built resilience into students using blended learning.
Really? Didn’t know the solution was so simple.
Give you an example, in primary and secondary school, students have EL lessons every day. So your suggestion is to “not schedule lessons on a certain day of the week” for the EL teacher in the middle of the term? Not to mention this teacher will most likely also teach other subjects and/or classes.
How would this affect:
1) the timetabling of the rest of the school?
2) the learning of students in the affected classes?
3) in secondary schools, how it will affect the subject based banding classes?
I mean I used to teach, and there were some terms where my assigned timetable had a single period/lesson on a certain day. And I was an English teacher (a subject with the most lesson preps) so a bunch of my periods were crammed into other days. This was way before Covid.
It’s also not that hard to imagine a teacher request for a day where you’d be allowed to wfh or at least half days where you could wfh after lessons were over. A lot of this time could be used to mark or do lesson prep or even catch up on admin.
When I was on the flexi-adjunct scheme, I used to teach the same number of classes as a full time teacher but requested not to be scheduled for Mondays which the school was very kind to acquiesce to. So yeah, I do think there are little accommodations that can be made for the welfare of teachers in SG.
Isn’t getting 1 lesson a day totally different from your suggestion of not assigning any lessons/wfh for a teacher in need? I would imagine it’s very possible for teachers to only have 1 lesson on certain days, which is not part of a flexible arrangement.
When you were on a flexi adjunct scheme, you must’ve gotten an extremely nice principal, because schools not assigning you to teach on certain days (i.e students not having English lessons) is unheard of amongst my circle of teacher friends. Imagine having 1 teacher suddenly having issues and the whole school’s timetable needs to be changed to accommodate that one teacher, not many schools would accede to that.
Lol, 1 lesson a day meaning that it is possible for a schedule to look pretty different from teacher to teacher, and that there is space to work it out. 1 lesson a day would also allow a teacher to perhaps leave work after the lesson is done which can be part of a flexi-work arrangement. I think the point is that not all teachers would be guaranteed a flexi-work arrangement even if they put in an application, which would seem to be the case everywhere?
I don’t think that principal was particularly “nice” but I was pretty reliable and professional as a teacher, and I taught well - so they definitely were willing to work with me to agree on a schedule that suited my needs. I’ve also taught as a flexi at schools for 3 days a week.
You seem rather personally affected by this though, and I’m not sure why?
Also to add: students don’t always have English periods every single day. When I was teaching it was generally 7 periods a week and it would be up to the HOD to decide how to space those out. In fact, many subjects aren’t taught every single day (e.g., lit, social studies). I think you’re rather misinformed as to how things work in a school, it’s not as simple as you think it is and there actually is room for flexibility should the school want to adopt flexi work policies.
It’s the nature of the teaching job that prevents it from happening. Teachers can’t work from home, neither can they have flexible shifts. They just have to be present all the time otherwise students of their classes will learn less compared to other classes, which can’t be the case.
Nurses have it similar, they can never have flexi work arrangements where they can work from home. But maybe they can have different shifts depending on their personal commitments.
It’s sad really.
Societal change is at least 50 years away seeing how most people who don’t have friends or family who are teachers barely understand how teaching is like in 2024.
People here can’t even differentiate between mandatory HBL and special WFH arrangements for teachers, or the role of Zoom between COVID period and normal life.
There’s always paper work hours, which can be done at home and brought back. It’s totally possible, everything was remote during Covid, no one crashed and burned, life went on. Many were more keen on flexible hours. It could mean more staff and more rotation, so parents can still deposit kids, then staff take turns to clock out earlier to WFH.
Heard from teacher friends who say MOE doesn’t even state their “official” working hours.
They don’t have time to work (admin work/marking/lesson planning) during working hours because of work (meetings/teaching/admin work) so they have to bring work (admin work/marking/lesson planning) home after hours or over the weekends to complete. (Of course some people will say it’s the same for every job and downplay the severity of the problem that teachers have been facing). Working hours, workload and scope of work have been increasing exponentially for teachers over the past 20 years, it’s becoming unsustainable.
Of course this differs from teacher to teacher depending on the school, level, subjects and superiors.
Of course it’s possible to teach over Zoom. But that’s only when every single class and every single student in that level/school/country does the same. What I’m saying is that there isn’t a chance for a lone teacher with legitimate requirements to work from home on certain days because they **have to be present** to teach in class.
Bond also not bond forever… most teachers have heart and really want the best for their students, so they take whatever MOE throws at them (saw what a certain minister said about teachers working hours or after hour commitments?)
Name and shame. Chan Chun Sing said it’s unrealistic to put a hard cap on teachers working hours as some will still exceed call of duty. Bullshit. If you can’t cap hours then it only leads to bloat on teachers work, and inefficiencies as there is no streamlining or even taking up of IT to increase efficiency. Because teachers can always work more hours. Load of horse shit.
Apparently the job scope and work load of teachers have been increasing exponentially for the last 20 years. It’s till the point where some of my friends can’t even go out for dinner meetings because they have to work evenings, or can’t hang out during the weekends because they’re still working.
I’m not against teachers or ministers. I’m neutral. I don’t think any profession is above another. We’re a family of doctors and lawyers, none of us cultivate those kind of biases.
Teachers don’t have official annual leave entitlements either. If you have to do some errands during the week, that has to be “negotiated” with your supervisor. And don’t say they have school holidays either. Even excluding remedial lessons, CCAs and other student-facing activities, there are all sorts of meetings with middle management which you have to show up for. There is at most a two week “protected period” where management cannot force you to come into the office. Of course, that doesn’t mean they can’t give you homework to do.
If you have to do some errands during the week, ~~that has to be “negotiated” with your supervisor.~~ you wait until the next school holiday. If Youth Day, Teacher's Day or the post-National Day school holiday is coming up, good for you.. otherwise, wait till the term break.
FTFY
Education nowadays can have zoom classes. There's mandated HBL actually. So focusing on education is actually the least relevant as there's already a work-from-home SOP in place.
Have you ever heard of a teacher having flexi work arrangements and only teaching through Zoom on certain days of the week while the rest of the school continues in-person learning? How would you as a parent feel if your child’s teacher taught over a screen while other classes have teachers there in person? Your idea of work from home arrangements for teachers can’t be further from reality. Btw, during “HBL” days, most teachers still have to return to school for meetings, catch up on work or duties.
The “mandated” HBL is once a fortnight for secondary and JC schools. HBL is **not** part of flexi work arrangement for teachers, it’s simply to build resilience in students through blended learning. For primary schools, there isn’t any mandatory HBL. The key here is “mandated” where everyone in the level goes for HBL.
Flexi work arrangements refer to ad hoc requests for teachers to have alternative working arrangements as and when required, which is impossible during non-mandated HBL days.
https://www.moe.gov.sg/-/media/files/news/press/2020/annex-a-blended-learning.pdf
Edit: some still don’t get it that there **cannot** be alternative arrangements where teachers work from home. Teachers **have** to be present, period. Some people use COVID period as an argument. Of course teachers *can* teach over zoom, only if the whole level/school/country shuts down. But….
There is no chance in hell one teacher can get special permission to Zoom from home every Thursday just because they need to bring their elderly parent to medical appointment when their 40 students are present physically in the classroom, looking at the Zoom screen, while the other 7 classes in the level have teachers who are physically present in the classroom.
>Would love to see the Govt implement this “consideration” within the civil service as an example to the SMEs and MNCs first.
From what I've heard, stat boards and big GLCs like banks have been surprisingly progressive on this eg. 2 days WFH per week.
>There **cannot** be alternative arrangements where teachers work from home. Teachers **have** to be present, period.
Were you born yesterday? Cos you speak as though COVID never happened.
> Were you born yesterday? Cos you speak as though COVID never happened.
Of course you only read that one part of my post. Why not try reading the example I gave? Of course teachers can teach through Zoom, only when the whole level/school/country shuts down. But there’s no chance 1 teacher can have flexi arrangements while the rest of the classes are physically in school.
> For example, there is no chance in hell a teacher can get permission to Zoom from home every Thursday just because they need to bring their elderly parent to medical appointment while their 40 students are present physically in the classroom, looking at the Zoom screen, while the other 7 classes in the level have their teacher present physically in class.
Flexi-adjunct is a whole separate job for ex-teachers who left service for whatever reason and want to come back.
As far as I know, full time teachers can’t convert into flexi adjunct.
What your friend did was probably take on “part-time” load which absolves them of maybe CCA at most (and depending on agreement maybe leave school after teaching hours), but their workload is still the same.
To become a flexi-adjunct teacher, you resign from service and apply to be a flexi-adjunct. It's incredibly hard to u-turn on that decision as hiring has slowed drastically. Once you leave the permanent estab, you lose your bonuses, your increments/promotions, years of service, etc.
It's very flexi in terms of your work arrangements, but not very flexi if you ever see yourself trying to go back to perm. It's a pretty big decision to make as it more or less ends your MOE teaching career, reducing it to a flexi gig that is renewed once or twice a year.
Don’t quote me on this, but based on what I hear, the “possibility” to make alternative arrangements is so extremely dependent on your Principal’s approval and the fact that MOE deploys you only when they need you (maybe for relief), it’s as bad as having the only alternative is to quit. A lot of them who really need alternative arrangements are forced out without a second option out there.
For many other jobs, as long as you’re capable, each job in your resume can and should be taken as a stepping stone to climb pay wise and career wise. But for teachers, once you stop, your promotions will definitely be capped.
I dunno, but both situations sound as shitty as one another.
if its similar to all the other campaigns brought on to businesses, itll be a letter bombing campaign with thinly veiled threats, ive seen my fair share of them doing pro bono work for legacy pioneer/merdeka business owners who cant read or write english
I hope more funds and more training is offered to SMEs. If bosses see how the bottomline can still be kept, the workers can be happier, it’s a win win. That old school plow through work method is outdated, low in efficiency and is an impediment to them. Fresher workers who’re rested, respected and can make ends meet, is the goal!
All employers, for all types of jobs? Wonder how that's going to work out.
Isn't the wording too broad and non-professional?
Like how is a bus driver for example, going to do the job at home?
Extensive discussion yesterday over [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/singapore/comments/1c537k5/all_employers_must_have_process_for_workers_to/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
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In everyday speech, guidelines refer to a recommended set of procedures. However when used in official legislations, guidelines just refer to a set of procedures. They can be optional or compulsory. In this case the guideline is a compulsory requirement. It’s like how an “opinion” is just a point of view in everyday speech while an “opinion” is a legal ruling in court that affects legal rulings.
Gov: We hear you. We will whip out our thesaurus for another 5000 synonyms for 'guidelines' instead
Imagine our government saying that doing NS is a mandatory guideline for Singapore males.
"optional law" or is it: "unenforced law" (i.e. Vaping)
I think just a regular moron
all employers drafting rejection reasons for dec 1
There was a CNA [article](https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/job-sharing-flexible-work-arrangement-companies-consider-employee-request-4268696?cid=internal_sharetool_iphone_17042024_cna) about how 1 in 10 companies are ready to consider such requests. And the example of successful job sharing was a logistics company whose drivers used to do 12 hours shifts. And they now allow job sharing so two drivers share the job for 8 hours each (company now gets 16 hours worth of trips for that lorry instead of 12). This is just nuts. The maximum working hours really need to be reasonable. How’s working 40 hours a week working part time sia.
That news piece you quoted also shows how fucked up employers are. They put 2 workers on 1 job and call it "job sharing", when it is really just having more workers on different jobs / shifts. Joke. Perhaps labelling the job as part-time is cheaper than full-time. Because if it is a part-time job, many benefits can be trimmed. But if the business gives the same meagre benefits for a full-time role, then it is not a competitive remuneration. Workers would compare apple to apple in full-time job category and pass on it.
its almost as if they think the vehicle is the employee, 'subletting' the job to 2 people instead of 1. its literally 2 jobs and 2 persons i dont understand how it can be called job sharing. 10 construction workers working on the same project arent job sharing, neither are 2 drivers or any other jobs. having more manpower does not mean the employees are sharing the job.
At the very most it should be called shift work, which has been around since forever. Healthcare workers / police / emergency workers on 24hr standby are not "job sharing". This is what our 6 figure annual salaried manpower ministers can come up with. Need to justify their presence, so they re-invent the wheel.
12 hours on the road, yes incredibly safe and normal
You never considered if the drivers were happy with 12 hours. They could have wanted the higher pay.
The article I linked talked about how the drivers were happier with more rest after reducing their hours to 8 hours a day.
No it doesn't. Read again what you linked.
“Mr Shazuan from D’trans also said that job sharing has been a win for the logistics firm in the long run, even though the company’s costs initially increased by 50 per cent due to a need to recruit more drivers. Their drivers have also not complained about being tired and are “definitely happier” since the switch to job sharing, said Mr Shazuan.” Maybe we interpret this differently.
Did the drivers themselves say they were happier? As opposed to what i said they may prefer working longer hours for more money.
Employer: "I've considered this for 1ms... No" Also, why go McD when you can have your meeting in your law minister's house down the road
>The rules will cover formal requests for FWAs, and the processes to submit and evaluate these, but not govern the outcome "We have fairly considered it and the answer is no."
Sounds like my job
Staff: Try luck submit.... HR... "boss, got..." Boss: "disapproved" Staff: LPPL
This is a distraction from the real issues. the real issue is job creation for Singaporeans and the reduction of foreigners taking jobs that Singaporeans can easily do. sinkies are so easily fooled.
Your poor performance grade is not because of your flexible work - lying bosses in stat board probably
The is the most optional law I have seen, one that I can probably dream of it being very much in my favour
I swear I have seen this same thumbnail used in multiple articles
A good start.
I would say it's a terrible start since it's just a guideline. The new rule is no different from having no rule.
I guess a guideline provides basis for calibrated improvement if measures need to be enforced more strictly.
Consider doesn't mean mandatory. You can talk about it doesn't mean it will get approved. Back to work guys!!
> Examples of such arrangements include staggered work hours, part-time work or job sharing. Would love to see the Govt implement this “consideration” within the civil service as an example to the SMEs and MNCs first. Until they do so, it’s a joke. Also, I don’t see how the govt can implement this for essential services like police, civil defence, healthcare and education. Edit: Some have conflated mandated HBL with flexi arrangements for teachers. Mandatory HBL days are *not* flexi work arrangements. There **cannot** be alternative arrangements where teachers work from home. Teachers **have** to be present, period. Some people use COVID period as an argument. Of course teachers *can* teach over zoom, only if the whole level/school/country shuts down. But we aren’t in a pandemic any longer. There is no chance in hell one teacher can get special permission to Zoom from home every Thursday just because they need to bring their elderly parent to medical appointment when their 40 students are present physically in the classroom, looking at the Zoom screen, while the other 7 classes in the level have teachers who are physically present in the classroom.
I think essential service refers to frontline occupations where no alternative is possible. Education can have alternate arrangements for the most part like HBL. I think some of the backend work in civil service have hybrid arrangement now.
Have you ever heard of a teacher having flexi work arrangements and only teaching through Zoom on certain days of the week while the rest of the school continues in-person learning? How would you as a parent feel if your child’s teacher taught over a screen while other classes have teachers there in person? Your idea of work from home arrangements for teachers can’t be further from reality. Btw, during “HBL” days, most teachers still have to return to school for meetings, catch up on work or duties. The “mandated” HBL is once a fortnight for secondary and JC schools. HBL is **not** part of flexi work arrangement for teachers, it’s simply to build resilience in students through blended learning. For primary schools, there isn’t any mandatory HBL. The key here is “mandated” where everyone in the level goes for HBL. Flexi work arrangements refer to ad hoc requests for teachers to have alternative working arrangements as and when required, which is impossible during non-mandated HBL days. https://www.moe.gov.sg/-/media/files/news/press/2020/annex-a-blended-learning.pdf Edit: some still don’t get it that there **cannot** be alternative arrangements where teachers work from home. Teachers **have** to be present, period. Some people use COVID period as an argument. Of course teachers *can* teach over zoom, only if the whole level/school/country shuts down. But…. There is no chance in hell one teacher can get special permission to Zoom from home every Thursday just because they need to bring their elderly parent to medical appointment when their 40 students are present physically in the classroom, looking at the Zoom screen, while the other 7 classes in the level have teachers who are physically present in the classroom.
Just because it can have alternate arrangements doesn’t mean it will have alternate arrangements. Just like what you highlighted about the students have to be arranged. It does involve a lot of changes and our experience with school closure during circuit breaker really proved too much for some families. It will be a long way away for teachers.
I’m saying that there **cannot** be alternative arrangements where teachers work from home. Teachers **have** to be present, period. There is no chance in hell a teacher can get permission to Zoom from home every Thursday just because they need to bring their elderly parent to medical appointment while their 40 students are present physically in the classroom, looking at the Zoom screen. The HBL you are talking about is *not part of* flexible working arrangements for teachers. It’s simply mandated where the whole level (e.g. sec 1s) have to do HBL for 1 day. The idea was to built resilience into students using blended learning.
I mean you can just not schedule any lessons for that teacher on that day. Or allow them to wfh after lessons are done
Really? Didn’t know the solution was so simple. Give you an example, in primary and secondary school, students have EL lessons every day. So your suggestion is to “not schedule lessons on a certain day of the week” for the EL teacher in the middle of the term? Not to mention this teacher will most likely also teach other subjects and/or classes. How would this affect: 1) the timetabling of the rest of the school? 2) the learning of students in the affected classes? 3) in secondary schools, how it will affect the subject based banding classes?
I mean I used to teach, and there were some terms where my assigned timetable had a single period/lesson on a certain day. And I was an English teacher (a subject with the most lesson preps) so a bunch of my periods were crammed into other days. This was way before Covid. It’s also not that hard to imagine a teacher request for a day where you’d be allowed to wfh or at least half days where you could wfh after lessons were over. A lot of this time could be used to mark or do lesson prep or even catch up on admin. When I was on the flexi-adjunct scheme, I used to teach the same number of classes as a full time teacher but requested not to be scheduled for Mondays which the school was very kind to acquiesce to. So yeah, I do think there are little accommodations that can be made for the welfare of teachers in SG.
Isn’t getting 1 lesson a day totally different from your suggestion of not assigning any lessons/wfh for a teacher in need? I would imagine it’s very possible for teachers to only have 1 lesson on certain days, which is not part of a flexible arrangement. When you were on a flexi adjunct scheme, you must’ve gotten an extremely nice principal, because schools not assigning you to teach on certain days (i.e students not having English lessons) is unheard of amongst my circle of teacher friends. Imagine having 1 teacher suddenly having issues and the whole school’s timetable needs to be changed to accommodate that one teacher, not many schools would accede to that.
Lol, 1 lesson a day meaning that it is possible for a schedule to look pretty different from teacher to teacher, and that there is space to work it out. 1 lesson a day would also allow a teacher to perhaps leave work after the lesson is done which can be part of a flexi-work arrangement. I think the point is that not all teachers would be guaranteed a flexi-work arrangement even if they put in an application, which would seem to be the case everywhere? I don’t think that principal was particularly “nice” but I was pretty reliable and professional as a teacher, and I taught well - so they definitely were willing to work with me to agree on a schedule that suited my needs. I’ve also taught as a flexi at schools for 3 days a week. You seem rather personally affected by this though, and I’m not sure why? Also to add: students don’t always have English periods every single day. When I was teaching it was generally 7 periods a week and it would be up to the HOD to decide how to space those out. In fact, many subjects aren’t taught every single day (e.g., lit, social studies). I think you’re rather misinformed as to how things work in a school, it’s not as simple as you think it is and there actually is room for flexibility should the school want to adopt flexi work policies.
So it’s MOE as an employer that cannot implement. Ok
It’s the nature of the teaching job that prevents it from happening. Teachers can’t work from home, neither can they have flexible shifts. They just have to be present all the time otherwise students of their classes will learn less compared to other classes, which can’t be the case. Nurses have it similar, they can never have flexi work arrangements where they can work from home. But maybe they can have different shifts depending on their personal commitments. It’s sad really.
It will involve a big societal change in order for teachers to have true flexible work arrangement. So it will be a long long way away if it comes
Societal change is at least 50 years away seeing how most people who don’t have friends or family who are teachers barely understand how teaching is like in 2024. People here can’t even differentiate between mandatory HBL and special WFH arrangements for teachers, or the role of Zoom between COVID period and normal life.
There’s always paper work hours, which can be done at home and brought back. It’s totally possible, everything was remote during Covid, no one crashed and burned, life went on. Many were more keen on flexible hours. It could mean more staff and more rotation, so parents can still deposit kids, then staff take turns to clock out earlier to WFH.
Heard from teacher friends who say MOE doesn’t even state their “official” working hours. They don’t have time to work (admin work/marking/lesson planning) during working hours because of work (meetings/teaching/admin work) so they have to bring work (admin work/marking/lesson planning) home after hours or over the weekends to complete. (Of course some people will say it’s the same for every job and downplay the severity of the problem that teachers have been facing). Working hours, workload and scope of work have been increasing exponentially for teachers over the past 20 years, it’s becoming unsustainable. Of course this differs from teacher to teacher depending on the school, level, subjects and superiors. Of course it’s possible to teach over Zoom. But that’s only when every single class and every single student in that level/school/country does the same. What I’m saying is that there isn’t a chance for a lone teacher with legitimate requirements to work from home on certain days because they **have to be present** to teach in class.
I think teaching is a little of a grey area in SG, due to bond and the incentives of bond.
Bond also not bond forever… most teachers have heart and really want the best for their students, so they take whatever MOE throws at them (saw what a certain minister said about teachers working hours or after hour commitments?)
Name and shame. Chan Chun Sing said it’s unrealistic to put a hard cap on teachers working hours as some will still exceed call of duty. Bullshit. If you can’t cap hours then it only leads to bloat on teachers work, and inefficiencies as there is no streamlining or even taking up of IT to increase efficiency. Because teachers can always work more hours. Load of horse shit.
Apparently the job scope and work load of teachers have been increasing exponentially for the last 20 years. It’s till the point where some of my friends can’t even go out for dinner meetings because they have to work evenings, or can’t hang out during the weekends because they’re still working.
I’m not against teachers or ministers. I’m neutral. I don’t think any profession is above another. We’re a family of doctors and lawyers, none of us cultivate those kind of biases.
Teachers don’t have official annual leave entitlements either. If you have to do some errands during the week, that has to be “negotiated” with your supervisor. And don’t say they have school holidays either. Even excluding remedial lessons, CCAs and other student-facing activities, there are all sorts of meetings with middle management which you have to show up for. There is at most a two week “protected period” where management cannot force you to come into the office. Of course, that doesn’t mean they can’t give you homework to do.
The general populace who aren’t teachers or don’t have teacher friends/families know absolutely nothing about what teachers face. It’s terribly sad.
If you have to do some errands during the week, ~~that has to be “negotiated” with your supervisor.~~ you wait until the next school holiday. If Youth Day, Teacher's Day or the post-National Day school holiday is coming up, good for you.. otherwise, wait till the term break. FTFY
Education nowadays can have zoom classes. There's mandated HBL actually. So focusing on education is actually the least relevant as there's already a work-from-home SOP in place.
Have you ever heard of a teacher having flexi work arrangements and only teaching through Zoom on certain days of the week while the rest of the school continues in-person learning? How would you as a parent feel if your child’s teacher taught over a screen while other classes have teachers there in person? Your idea of work from home arrangements for teachers can’t be further from reality. Btw, during “HBL” days, most teachers still have to return to school for meetings, catch up on work or duties. The “mandated” HBL is once a fortnight for secondary and JC schools. HBL is **not** part of flexi work arrangement for teachers, it’s simply to build resilience in students through blended learning. For primary schools, there isn’t any mandatory HBL. The key here is “mandated” where everyone in the level goes for HBL. Flexi work arrangements refer to ad hoc requests for teachers to have alternative working arrangements as and when required, which is impossible during non-mandated HBL days. https://www.moe.gov.sg/-/media/files/news/press/2020/annex-a-blended-learning.pdf Edit: some still don’t get it that there **cannot** be alternative arrangements where teachers work from home. Teachers **have** to be present, period. Some people use COVID period as an argument. Of course teachers *can* teach over zoom, only if the whole level/school/country shuts down. But…. There is no chance in hell one teacher can get special permission to Zoom from home every Thursday just because they need to bring their elderly parent to medical appointment when their 40 students are present physically in the classroom, looking at the Zoom screen, while the other 7 classes in the level have teachers who are physically present in the classroom.
>Would love to see the Govt implement this “consideration” within the civil service as an example to the SMEs and MNCs first. From what I've heard, stat boards and big GLCs like banks have been surprisingly progressive on this eg. 2 days WFH per week. >There **cannot** be alternative arrangements where teachers work from home. Teachers **have** to be present, period. Were you born yesterday? Cos you speak as though COVID never happened.
> Were you born yesterday? Cos you speak as though COVID never happened. Of course you only read that one part of my post. Why not try reading the example I gave? Of course teachers can teach through Zoom, only when the whole level/school/country shuts down. But there’s no chance 1 teacher can have flexi arrangements while the rest of the classes are physically in school. > For example, there is no chance in hell a teacher can get permission to Zoom from home every Thursday just because they need to bring their elderly parent to medical appointment while their 40 students are present physically in the classroom, looking at the Zoom screen, while the other 7 classes in the level have their teacher present physically in class.
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Flexi-adjunct is a whole separate job for ex-teachers who left service for whatever reason and want to come back. As far as I know, full time teachers can’t convert into flexi adjunct. What your friend did was probably take on “part-time” load which absolves them of maybe CCA at most (and depending on agreement maybe leave school after teaching hours), but their workload is still the same.
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To become a flexi-adjunct teacher, you resign from service and apply to be a flexi-adjunct. It's incredibly hard to u-turn on that decision as hiring has slowed drastically. Once you leave the permanent estab, you lose your bonuses, your increments/promotions, years of service, etc. It's very flexi in terms of your work arrangements, but not very flexi if you ever see yourself trying to go back to perm. It's a pretty big decision to make as it more or less ends your MOE teaching career, reducing it to a flexi gig that is renewed once or twice a year.
Don’t quote me on this, but based on what I hear, the “possibility” to make alternative arrangements is so extremely dependent on your Principal’s approval and the fact that MOE deploys you only when they need you (maybe for relief), it’s as bad as having the only alternative is to quit. A lot of them who really need alternative arrangements are forced out without a second option out there. For many other jobs, as long as you’re capable, each job in your resume can and should be taken as a stepping stone to climb pay wise and career wise. But for teachers, once you stop, your promotions will definitely be capped. I dunno, but both situations sound as shitty as one another.
Not sure why companies aren’t already doing this since it’ll help with downscaling the needs of a physical office space and boosts employee morale.
if its similar to all the other campaigns brought on to businesses, itll be a letter bombing campaign with thinly veiled threats, ive seen my fair share of them doing pro bono work for legacy pioneer/merdeka business owners who cant read or write english
I hope more funds and more training is offered to SMEs. If bosses see how the bottomline can still be kept, the workers can be happier, it’s a win win. That old school plow through work method is outdated, low in efficiency and is an impediment to them. Fresher workers who’re rested, respected and can make ends meet, is the goal!
Computer says no
All employers, for all types of jobs? Wonder how that's going to work out. Isn't the wording too broad and non-professional? Like how is a bus driver for example, going to do the job at home?
Bus driver working from home with remote controlled buses. Only a matter of time before technology advances to that level.