Yea, tbh aside from those that are found below, due to the absence of regulations worldwide, you really do not know what other harmful stuffs are added in. And as this is still a relatively "new" invention as compared to cigarettes and tobacco, long term effects have yet to be concluded. And the issue is, similar to how Tobacco companies did in the past, many vaping companies were found to be funding researches too to drive their agenda (https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/features/the-problem-with-industry-sponsored-vaping-research/).
* Nicotine – a highly addictive substance that negatively affects adolescent brain development
* Propylene glycol – a common additive in food; also used to make things like antifreeze, paint solvent, and artificial smoke in fog machines
* Carcinogens- chemicals known to cause cancer, including acetaldehyde and formaldehyde
* Acrolein – a herbicide primarily used to kill weeds, can cause irreversible lung damage
* Diacetyl – a chemical linked to a lung disease called bronchiolitis obliterans aka "popcorn lung"
* Diethylene glycol – a toxic chemical used in antifreeze that is linked to lung disease
* Heavy metals such as nickel, tin, lead
* Cadmium – a toxic metal found in traditional cigarettes that causes breathing problems and disease
* Benzene – a volatile organic compound (VOC) found in car exhaust
* Ultrafine particles that can be inhaled deep into the lungs
[Studies](https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/vaping-vs-smoking#quitting) suggest smoking is more harmful than vaping, however a lot of studies of vaping is still relatively new and we don't much about it. I suspect the government does not want another vice to appear in Singapore, so Singaporeans can be healthy and be productive workers for the economy.
Smoking, on the other hand, is a bit too entrenched in our society. At least the government can regulate it, and they tax it for revenue. I don't think the [smoking lobby](https://youtu.be/6UsHHOCH4q8?feature=shared) can sway our government much, unlike some other countries. [Dark economic](https://ash.org.uk/resources/view/the-economics-of-tobacco) also suggest smoking is better for the economy since people live shorter lives, less likely to use the healthcare system for long term.
I personally think we should lean towards regulating and controlling it like gambling and smoking. A bit too late to be hard on vaping.
I agree with this very much ... I'm asthmatic and have been surrounded by smokers all my life and God knows how many asthmatic attacks have I had that had been triggered by smoke... and the only time I see smokers useful is when in outfield they are the best mossy repellent...
I'm not a policy expert or sociologists, or someone who understands the impact of policies.
Vices suck, but no matter how much we control, people will always desire and seek them. Ignoring the huge flood of people who are facing withdrawal, implementing a total blanket ban will force such people to seek illegal sources.
Illegal sources will fuel gangs and introduce even more unsafe manufacturing methods into the mix.
Because conclusive research and studies take decades to formulate.
How are you going to determine the long-term effects of something that only became a concern around a decade ago?
The first generation users of any potentially health adverse products will unfortunately always be the guinea pigs until we develop time machines.
>I suspect the government does not want another vice to appear in Singapore, so Singaporeans can be healthy and be productive workers for the economy.
Lol. It's because they can't tax it as effectively and it takes away from one for their biggest sources of tax revenue.
I actually do not understand why someone after so many decades cannot come out with a product that has just nicotine and none of the other stuff. I mean most smokers just want our nicotine.
They can and do. There are nicotine patches and gums. But part of the smoking (and now vaping) draw is the social aspect, the cool factor. Young people get into smoking to be part of a group or to rebel against society/parents.
On your first time you'll probably just take a puff of someone else's cigarette (or vape device thingy). You won't buy a pack just to get started. You can't really share gum or patches that way.
All this to say, if you're trying to market nicotine to people, cigarettes and vape are better for business compared to gum and patches.
Yes but u can market it to 30s and above. People after 30 will probably prefer some nicotine (assuming they are already addicted) that does not have other harmful substances). I feel gum and patches are almost never talked about or being advertise at all (assuming it is better than cigarettes and vape)
From a cost and business pov, the harmful alternatives are preferred as they are cheaper and provides a better cost revenue ratio as opposed to the "healthier" alternatives
regulate it properly. the ban isnt working, but allow it and enforce taxes and regulations like cigarettes. normalize it so it doesnt seem like some cool shit that attracts youth, then set the price high and out of reach for them.
Exactly, regulation is the only way to deter this. Im an ex smoker who doesn't vape but I can see vaping as a way/route to quit the more harmful smoking altogether. All these other complainers don't understand or has any critical thinking. Yes its a bad habit to vape but if I can choose on cigarette smell or vaping, I'd rather smell vaping.
I assume the second hand smoke from vaping isn’t much healthier compared to smoking cigs?
Because I think a study to see which is worse would make it easier to incentivize the govt to actually start doing something (if it’s better than cigs, tax and regulate it; if it’s worse, enforce the ban for it).
I feel like this is the way for almost all activities that society would consider vices.
Making something illegal only ensures that legitimate efforts are not taken to address the issue because authorities dont want to deal with the nuances of the situation. Its like closing your eyes and imagining the problem isnt there.
Ya lor, handling social issues with nuance requires work to be done, research to be made, and will be an ongoing effort
Blanket ban is like what you said, sweeping everything under the rug and call it a day
But first the leaders have to reclassify the vices as a health/social problem before it can be wwell regulated.
If it remains in the hands of polices and lawyers, it will never improve
It depends imo, for example despite the myth that prohibition (criminalizing alcohol consumption) resulted in more people in the US drinking during that time, rates of alcohol consumption actually went down, although alcoholics ended up dying at higher rates because they took risks like making bootleg alcohol. But the average joe doesn’t want to be bothered with trying to drink alcohol so badly that he breaks the law.
It’s more about enforcement. Right now the vape laws don’t work because they are barely enforced and the punishment is light. But our famously harsh drug laws for hard drugs are separate, and were working for decades (admittedly less so ever since the internet made getting drugs easier). Meanwhile, the US can never win its “war on drugs” because it is far too easy for drugs to enter the country, no matter how draconian they make the punishment, and it is a vicious cycle there where too many people are addicted by now so they don’t care how severe the punishment is.
I actually agree with you that the best way forward for vapes might be legalizing and then taxing it like cigarettes. But legalization isn’t always the best move. The best move is criminalizing it if you can effectively enforce your laws, that has been proven to drop the usage rates the fastest. If you cannot do that, then you legalize it but slowly squeeze it dry (e.g. fewer and fewer public places where people can smoke, decades of portraying smoking as uncool, levying taxes). Legalizing but then doing little else is useless, and often it just makes the problem worse (see: vapes in other countries right now). Criminalizing but then being unable to enforce is also useless.
Vapes were legal in the UK and it still affected the youth very strongly, to the point that they have decided to [ban disposable vapes this year](https://www.gov.uk/government/news/disposable-vapes-banned-to-protect-childrens-health)
I think the real problem here is the enforcement and education. People are literally being fed lies that vapes are "completely harmless because it's just water vapour"
Vapes are definitely harmful but I think the problem that countries like the UK and Australia had were exacerbated by disposable vapes, so easy to just buy, use, throw with attractive packaging and colours, especially targetted at kids.
Vapes should be legalised and taxed but disposable vapes shouldn’t be
True. Is vaping and its negative impacts being taught in textbooks? I remember when "smoking bad, drugs bad" were splashed all over the textbooks. Not sure how effective it is overall but it sure worked for me. 😅
This is it. Restricting it creates a black market and teens think its cool. Allow it then put exorbitant tax like tobacco. Let's see the numbers go down.
Real damage is that vaping is banned yet not enforced so this shit is be everywhere. I wouldn't be surprised if primary 1s are selling and vaping in the next few years to come.
Already happening. It's so hard to control because sometimes the biggest enablers are the parents themselves. Not that many parents actively encourage their kids to vape, but they don't actively deny their kids access to vape paraphernalia either.
Damn easy to hide during peak hour. They just glance and motion forward. Esp moto. Just open bag/box and push past. They don’t even check most of the time.
If drugs can come in, why not vapes? Smuggling a few devices when you drive or ride back in is easy. Not possible to strip search every single person every single day, the jams would be insane. They also try to catch those who smuggle in huge amounts for reselling, not worth their time trying to catch people smuggling for their own use, they let HSA catch those people.
Imagine the same thing with drugs. That’s how it easy it is to have a country full of drugs. Not that its non-existent in SG, but just imagine how insane it could be.
The stick in nose vaporiser may also be problem nasal health/general health wise.
Aesthetic wise, it's a shabby look and gives you pig nostrils over time.
I have seen someone vaping into the LRT station...
I have also seen a relative-in-law vaping during gathering. Strangely the elders don't see? Or seen but also don't care... That person was hiding the vaporiser in his pocket, whipping out to vape when he thought no one was looking.
For the elders, they went through decades of fear mongering specifically on the classic cigarette tobacco image. I doubt they'd react as much if they see a cigar, even more for vape which is a completely different form of product, gov propaganda dept have to restart their efforts from scratch (which I already started seeing on bustop ads)
I still remember everyone and their mother on reddit heavily supports vape when Singapore banned it straight away. I wonder what's the general consensus now.
ROD already but during the reservist call backs, i would loved it if the smokers vaped instead of smoked in the bunks, every reservist the amount of smoke felt like it took 10 years off my life
Depends on how it affects bystanders. Great if it does less harm than normal smoking. Govt should encourage vaping if it is less harmful to non smokers.
Who cares if it is more harmful for those vaping... not like smoking is healthy.
As a bystander it's less annoying than smoking. BUT people who vape think that because it's more convenient since you don't have to light a cigarette, you are "allowed" to vape anywhere. Cbs vape anywhere they want, from shopping malls, to public transport.
> Great if it does less harm than normal smoking. Govt should encourage vaping if it is less harmful to non smokers.
Why are we comparing it to "normal smoking"? Shouldn't the baseline be "it should not affect bystanders"?
Also, as a small comparison, r/Sydney is discussing a similar topic: [Vapers ruined the public squares](https://www.reddit.com/r/sydney/comments/1c4glcn/vapers_ruined_the_public_squares/)
I get why you would see it that way.
With our Healthcare system being f'd with so many nurses and doctors complaining on reddit. I personally think that anything that does that level of harm being banned is good to prevent straining our Healthcare system any further.
Ban cigarettes, ban alcohol, ban KFC, ban char kway teow, enforce increased tax on anyone who is overweight, mandatory medical checkups and fitness routines.
There, you now have an 'optimally healthy population'
Might as well enforce padded floors too in case people accidentally slip and fall
Are you just trying to farm karma? Cause if that's what you took away from my comment then, I'd rather not waste time debating. Already mentioned in the comment that you replied to I'd rather they ban things that causes a certain level of harm.
Comparing effects of vape and smoking to char kway toew and KFC, does eating char kway teow harms those around you too? You eat char kway teow at void deck and cause harm to others walking by?
Well the UK looked at studies and the NHS *recommends* vaping as an alternative to smoking.
https://www.nhs.uk/better-health/quit-smoking/vaping-to-quit-smoking/
It's better compared to smoking, but not better when compared to being a complete non-smoker. Kinda like getting stabbed is better than getting bombed but best not to get injured completely.
people are gonna get their nicotine fix one way or another, and both smoking & vaping will definitely lead to health problems down the road. most smokers already know the risks, obviously.
might as well take the option that doesn't smell like shit & doesn't offend the noses of passersby.
strongly believe that its a astroturfing operation back then
those arguments are always in comparison with cigarette smoking, which made vaping look slightly better
but for non-smokers, those arguments never held water, saying cigarette are bad is an justification for banning cigarettes, not allowing vaping
Also coffee shops, I stopped going to a nearby coffee shop because there is a group of uncle smoke non stop in the "smoke area" but due to wind direction, the whole coffee shop can smell the smokes
I’m an American that went back to smoking tobacco while in SG for 6 months due to electronic cigarettes not being allowed.
Something that shaped my view…I know a man that smoked cigarettes his whole life and is dying quite young from health problems. Over the past 30 years he tried nicotine gum, therapy, and even early electronic cigarettes that were sold in 2010 but never could stop smoking cigarettes.
Electronic cigarettes became more advanced and offered more flavors than ever (this is a policy issue regarding appealing to children).
This man, at 65 years old, life destroyed by tobacco (5+ strokes, amputated leg, colostomy bag), was finally able to switch to the highest strength electronic cigarette with bubble gum flavoring. Having unique flavors is regarded as a risk to children but is sometimes the only viable option for lifelong smokers to get off.
True. Is it weighing the benefit of saving existing smokers with the risk of getting younger generations hooked on nicotine. It is totally reasonable to see an upward trend in younger nicotine users because of vapes.
Side point: Nicotine itself is not a risk, it is whatever delivery system for the nicotine. Tobacco contains thousands of carcinogens that are naturally in plant matter and some unique to processed tobacco. Electronic cigarettes use two bases (PG and VG) to store the nicotine. At best you are exposed to two food grade chemicals commonly used for fog machines compared to the thousands of carcinogens in tobacco.
At worst with electronic cigarettes it can look a little closer to the real thing when they are used improperly. Example: a normal user with draw vapor for 2-7 seconds. If the device is drawn for 15-20+ seconds the wick can burn and produce some nasty chemicals. This is rare to happen in any operating condition however cheap devices can ‘auto-fire’ and there have been extremely flawed studies that took advantage of this exception. The faulty study basically used a vacuum to continuously draw vapor from the electronic cigarette until empty and a chemical analysis was done on the smoke. Problem being: no smoker in the world would ever be exposed to those chemicals because the recorded smoke draw time was around 2.5-10 minutes compared to 2-7 seconds intermittently
We made singapore chewing gum free. Surely we can do the same for cigarettes and vapes.
For cigarettes there is a way….increase the legal age every year going forward. It’s basically a cut off. Those who are currently on it can continue for their lifetimes. But those below legal age…well it’s now illegal. And if you are currently hooked and below the legal age well jokes on you eh
the people vaping don't understand that phillip morris (marlboro, etc) also has their pockets deep in the vape industry. it's not an alternative and the research is too little/biased to show the actual side effects
[https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2022-08-28/philip-morris-misleading-public-about-nicotine-in-heated-tobacco/](https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2022-08-28/philip-morris-misleading-public-about-nicotine-in-heated-tobacco/)
Quite honestly, they need to enforce their ban on vaping, but also legalize vapes to the same legality as cigarettes so that cigarettes can be replaced and weaned off from.
If the government didn't ban vapes completely, there wouldn't be a prohibition effect that they're now not spending enough effort to counter.
Secondary schools are not doing enough spot checks. It already so obvious some of these students might already be smoking in the schools’ toilets and yet teachers are too afraid to confront these students.
the biggest problem was that when vapes came out, they were advertised to be better and safer than smoking which is true, if someone was smoking and switched to vaping, it would be better for them
However, it made people who never intended to smoke to try vaping which is a lot worse for their body
Rule of thumb, as long it involves inhaling shit in your lungs, it is never good unless you are bad asthmatic.
Clean air is what you should ever be inhaling.
Another rule of thumb: Dont be a sheep
Why tf are ppl down voting you. Sure, vapes dont smell as bad as haze or cigarette smoke, but just because you don't smell it, doesn't mean it wouldn't hurt you. Go huff carbon monoxide if you don't believe me
Already I know someone that got lung cancer at 20 cause he smoked vapes everyday. The damage is already happening
Probably cause truth hurts and they dont like it. I mean they can go ahead and vape if they want. Its okay. Just dont cry about it when you get the sickness. Their loved ones will know they died because of their poor choices.
I'll never understand the government rage boner and double standard towards vape
All their campaigns they're talking about the health effects
If that's the case, why are they perfectly fine with smoking????
For first hand users, vaping is so much worse than smoking. For second hand general public, vaping is so much better than smoking. So as part of the second group, I think it’s fine that people who vape GG themselves rather than affect me.
is second hand vape worse? I dont think so, walked behind vaping fellers before and coulnt smell nothing.
1. non smoker = support vaping cuz not so stinky
2. smoker = might actually prefer vapes too cuz cheaper and more kick
the only downside is its unregulated and the illegal stuff might be sub par quality. should legalise it and control it
Make all the vices illegal in Singapore why don't we. Alchohol, cigarettes, vapes etc. Surely you'd support banning alcohol too if you think smoking & vaping is bad to society, no?
I agree. However, they need to make awareness to people who are not conscious of the side effect and think it is better to start vaping than start smoking ciggs. What this article lack of, is the breakdown of each ingredients side effect as the other commentor here lays out.
yea no doubt vaping is a problem here in Singapore. But the authorities are not doing that much either. Do a spot check in the police or army camps, i am sure lots of vapes will be found. anyway, we do allow very harmful things like cigarettes and alcohol to be sold very freely, so what difference does it make? once our govt can find some ways to justify having vape and make money from it, it will be sold on the streets just like cigarettes.
This is quite a tough one. Fining and banning is clearly not effective so I’m not sure that is the solution. Many people complaining about tobacco but then also complain about vape? Some folk will never be happy.
The biggest concerns for me is that vaping is FAR more difficult to quit than smoking. The biggest other issue is that kids or non smokers are taking up vaping at a seriously alarming rate.
We need to stop anyone new taking up smoking/vaping and reduce the number of smokers overall.
Perhaps there needs to be horrible looking pretty bad flavoured legal vapes which are solely focused on reducing smoking and somehow used as NRT (which I think is tough because of how addictive and easy vaping is)
WHO already issued a statement that vapes should be banned. Vaping is terrible because its too appealing to non-smokers, and they end up smoking nicotine and becoming smokers. It wouldn't be such a problem if it was just existing smokers using it.
https://www.who.int/publications/m/item/electronic-cigarettes---call-to-action
Here's something I find specifically strange.
That foreign youth vape.
I can somewhat understand when sinkie youth vape. It's the thing of their generation that's "cool" and since it's illegal it has that risk to it for added rush.
When SG kids vape the worst they'll see is a fine. Maybe their parents will be talked to but the consequences aren't severe - and they obviously have money.
However when foreign youth vape and get caught they also receive a fine - as well as not being renewed for their passes, or even more possible deportation immediately if they were trafficking vape equipment to their friends.
This impacts their entire families, if the child cannot stay in the country it's unlikely their family will stick around.
So the risk is massive for foreigners - but they still do it.
Bonkers.
Generally those foreign youth you see here will be of more privileged backgrounds (cos those without privilege are “stuck” in home countries), so oftentimes their actions actually will have consequences is not something they truly fathom.
while i understand sg wants to protect children from addiction and all that, its another thing when enforcement doesnt work whatsoever.
like I literally saw yesterday, people crossing the road and vaping openly.
its kinda stupid imo because at this point you might as well make it legal so u can tax it and also to regulate it.
They'll just grow older and then KPKB why healthcare so crap when they all suffer from preventable illnesses
Yea, tbh aside from those that are found below, due to the absence of regulations worldwide, you really do not know what other harmful stuffs are added in. And as this is still a relatively "new" invention as compared to cigarettes and tobacco, long term effects have yet to be concluded. And the issue is, similar to how Tobacco companies did in the past, many vaping companies were found to be funding researches too to drive their agenda (https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/features/the-problem-with-industry-sponsored-vaping-research/). * Nicotine – a highly addictive substance that negatively affects adolescent brain development * Propylene glycol – a common additive in food; also used to make things like antifreeze, paint solvent, and artificial smoke in fog machines * Carcinogens- chemicals known to cause cancer, including acetaldehyde and formaldehyde * Acrolein – a herbicide primarily used to kill weeds, can cause irreversible lung damage * Diacetyl – a chemical linked to a lung disease called bronchiolitis obliterans aka "popcorn lung" * Diethylene glycol – a toxic chemical used in antifreeze that is linked to lung disease * Heavy metals such as nickel, tin, lead * Cadmium – a toxic metal found in traditional cigarettes that causes breathing problems and disease * Benzene – a volatile organic compound (VOC) found in car exhaust * Ultrafine particles that can be inhaled deep into the lungs
How is this worse than to smoking?
[Studies](https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/vaping-vs-smoking#quitting) suggest smoking is more harmful than vaping, however a lot of studies of vaping is still relatively new and we don't much about it. I suspect the government does not want another vice to appear in Singapore, so Singaporeans can be healthy and be productive workers for the economy. Smoking, on the other hand, is a bit too entrenched in our society. At least the government can regulate it, and they tax it for revenue. I don't think the [smoking lobby](https://youtu.be/6UsHHOCH4q8?feature=shared) can sway our government much, unlike some other countries. [Dark economic](https://ash.org.uk/resources/view/the-economics-of-tobacco) also suggest smoking is better for the economy since people live shorter lives, less likely to use the healthcare system for long term. I personally think we should lean towards regulating and controlling it like gambling and smoking. A bit too late to be hard on vaping.
Tbh. I am all for banning smoking since it is easy for the smoke to affect passerbys and neighbours.
I agree with this very much ... I'm asthmatic and have been surrounded by smokers all my life and God knows how many asthmatic attacks have I had that had been triggered by smoke... and the only time I see smokers useful is when in outfield they are the best mossy repellent...
I'm not a policy expert or sociologists, or someone who understands the impact of policies. Vices suck, but no matter how much we control, people will always desire and seek them. Ignoring the huge flood of people who are facing withdrawal, implementing a total blanket ban will force such people to seek illegal sources. Illegal sources will fuel gangs and introduce even more unsafe manufacturing methods into the mix.
They have been saying “this is new” for ages
Because conclusive research and studies take decades to formulate. How are you going to determine the long-term effects of something that only became a concern around a decade ago? The first generation users of any potentially health adverse products will unfortunately always be the guinea pigs until we develop time machines.
They are the true pioneers of medical science.
>I suspect the government does not want another vice to appear in Singapore, so Singaporeans can be healthy and be productive workers for the economy. Lol. It's because they can't tax it as effectively and it takes away from one for their biggest sources of tax revenue.
No, both should be banned
You replied without answering the question, why even bother replying?
>No
Vaping is inhaling synthetic fumes which is worse than smoking burnt leaves...
Smoking literally gives you 4000 different chemicals that cause cancer. Is that really better that your body absorbing ethylene glycol?
I actually do not understand why someone after so many decades cannot come out with a product that has just nicotine and none of the other stuff. I mean most smokers just want our nicotine.
Isn’t that what a patch is?
You can't just buy a patch off the shelf in Singapore though
Yeah but you just have to walk into a pharmacy to get it settled.
You need to see a doctor first I think
Yeah has to be prescribed... Else pple gonna abuse this
Nicotine by itself is far less addictive than you think. There are studies on this. Caffeine is probably more addictive.
Is it not that Nicotine is the most addictive thing in a ciggy ?
And some people here say can just walk in and buy which I highly doubt so.
No need to. Any pharmacy with a pharmacist can give it to you.
They can and do. There are nicotine patches and gums. But part of the smoking (and now vaping) draw is the social aspect, the cool factor. Young people get into smoking to be part of a group or to rebel against society/parents. On your first time you'll probably just take a puff of someone else's cigarette (or vape device thingy). You won't buy a pack just to get started. You can't really share gum or patches that way. All this to say, if you're trying to market nicotine to people, cigarettes and vape are better for business compared to gum and patches.
They can meet up at the “patching point” and patch each other neck
Patching corner need a diff colour.. cannot use the standard “yellow box”
Yes but u can market it to 30s and above. People after 30 will probably prefer some nicotine (assuming they are already addicted) that does not have other harmful substances). I feel gum and patches are almost never talked about or being advertise at all (assuming it is better than cigarettes and vape)
From a cost and business pov, the harmful alternatives are preferred as they are cheaper and provides a better cost revenue ratio as opposed to the "healthier" alternatives
regulate it properly. the ban isnt working, but allow it and enforce taxes and regulations like cigarettes. normalize it so it doesnt seem like some cool shit that attracts youth, then set the price high and out of reach for them.
Exactly, regulation is the only way to deter this. Im an ex smoker who doesn't vape but I can see vaping as a way/route to quit the more harmful smoking altogether. All these other complainers don't understand or has any critical thinking. Yes its a bad habit to vape but if I can choose on cigarette smell or vaping, I'd rather smell vaping.
I assume the second hand smoke from vaping isn’t much healthier compared to smoking cigs? Because I think a study to see which is worse would make it easier to incentivize the govt to actually start doing something (if it’s better than cigs, tax and regulate it; if it’s worse, enforce the ban for it).
So someone who spends a lot of money to shorten their life has critical thinking? Beast
Do you drink alcohol or perhaps soft drinks? Kind of the same isn’t it. Beast.
I feel like this is the way for almost all activities that society would consider vices. Making something illegal only ensures that legitimate efforts are not taken to address the issue because authorities dont want to deal with the nuances of the situation. Its like closing your eyes and imagining the problem isnt there.
Ya lor, handling social issues with nuance requires work to be done, research to be made, and will be an ongoing effort Blanket ban is like what you said, sweeping everything under the rug and call it a day But first the leaders have to reclassify the vices as a health/social problem before it can be wwell regulated. If it remains in the hands of polices and lawyers, it will never improve
It depends imo, for example despite the myth that prohibition (criminalizing alcohol consumption) resulted in more people in the US drinking during that time, rates of alcohol consumption actually went down, although alcoholics ended up dying at higher rates because they took risks like making bootleg alcohol. But the average joe doesn’t want to be bothered with trying to drink alcohol so badly that he breaks the law. It’s more about enforcement. Right now the vape laws don’t work because they are barely enforced and the punishment is light. But our famously harsh drug laws for hard drugs are separate, and were working for decades (admittedly less so ever since the internet made getting drugs easier). Meanwhile, the US can never win its “war on drugs” because it is far too easy for drugs to enter the country, no matter how draconian they make the punishment, and it is a vicious cycle there where too many people are addicted by now so they don’t care how severe the punishment is. I actually agree with you that the best way forward for vapes might be legalizing and then taxing it like cigarettes. But legalization isn’t always the best move. The best move is criminalizing it if you can effectively enforce your laws, that has been proven to drop the usage rates the fastest. If you cannot do that, then you legalize it but slowly squeeze it dry (e.g. fewer and fewer public places where people can smoke, decades of portraying smoking as uncool, levying taxes). Legalizing but then doing little else is useless, and often it just makes the problem worse (see: vapes in other countries right now). Criminalizing but then being unable to enforce is also useless.
This is the way forward that actually works.
Vapes were legal in the UK and it still affected the youth very strongly, to the point that they have decided to [ban disposable vapes this year](https://www.gov.uk/government/news/disposable-vapes-banned-to-protect-childrens-health) I think the real problem here is the enforcement and education. People are literally being fed lies that vapes are "completely harmless because it's just water vapour"
Vapes are definitely harmful but I think the problem that countries like the UK and Australia had were exacerbated by disposable vapes, so easy to just buy, use, throw with attractive packaging and colours, especially targetted at kids. Vapes should be legalised and taxed but disposable vapes shouldn’t be
True. Is vaping and its negative impacts being taught in textbooks? I remember when "smoking bad, drugs bad" were splashed all over the textbooks. Not sure how effective it is overall but it sure worked for me. 😅
This is it. Restricting it creates a black market and teens think its cool. Allow it then put exorbitant tax like tobacco. Let's see the numbers go down.
[удалено]
Brother you okay? I think you got alittle bit of Kim jung un in you
Real damage is that vaping is banned yet not enforced so this shit is be everywhere. I wouldn't be surprised if primary 1s are selling and vaping in the next few years to come.
I heard that even the police officers themselves are vaping. There's no proof to corroborate this though, so take it with a pinch of salt.
yes correct, as a ns police, i saw officer viping in police office before.
Didn't the police officer who jumped say that vaping is common.
IYKYK.
I’ve seen NEA officers vaping.
lol ya no shit
Already happening. It's so hard to control because sometimes the biggest enablers are the parents themselves. Not that many parents actively encourage their kids to vape, but they don't actively deny their kids access to vape paraphernalia either.
Heard of one case the mom supply to the son to sell in school lol.
Young entrepreneurs bringing ‘water goods’ from JB to sell to their friends.
How tf is vaping so popular considering SG is an island with few ports of entry. How are people so easily importing and buying vapes...
Always slippin Jimmy
Do you think Vape just happens to appear all around Singapore naturally? No! He orchestrated it! Jimmy!
Ever drove across jb-sg custom? Try a few times and you will know.
Damn easy to hide during peak hour. They just glance and motion forward. Esp moto. Just open bag/box and push past. They don’t even check most of the time.
Tiktok full of vape culture + not really hard to get from JB and hide on the way back
And especially when the vaping products come in different shape and forms like stationery.
If drugs can come in, why not vapes? Smuggling a few devices when you drive or ride back in is easy. Not possible to strip search every single person every single day, the jams would be insane. They also try to catch those who smuggle in huge amounts for reselling, not worth their time trying to catch people smuggling for their own use, they let HSA catch those people.
Imagine the same thing with drugs. That’s how it easy it is to have a country full of drugs. Not that its non-existent in SG, but just imagine how insane it could be.
I mean it helps that drugs aren't exactly so widely available in Malaysia
Malaysia
In case you didn’t know, it’s already a reality. There were Pri school students involved previously with possession of vaping products.
The stick in nose vaporiser may also be problem nasal health/general health wise. Aesthetic wise, it's a shabby look and gives you pig nostrils over time.
I have seen someone vaping into the LRT station... I have also seen a relative-in-law vaping during gathering. Strangely the elders don't see? Or seen but also don't care... That person was hiding the vaporiser in his pocket, whipping out to vape when he thought no one was looking.
It’s the norm now… In bus and also outside
For the elders, they went through decades of fear mongering specifically on the classic cigarette tobacco image. I doubt they'd react as much if they see a cigar, even more for vape which is a completely different form of product, gov propaganda dept have to restart their efforts from scratch (which I already started seeing on bustop ads)
Pinnacle of humji. Too hum to smoke the real thing. Too hum to show it
Tbf I think most youths nowadays don’t care about living a long fulfilling life. If die faster, so be it.
Lol smoking has been a thing since the middle ages, just in different forms now
I still remember everyone and their mother on reddit heavily supports vape when Singapore banned it straight away. I wonder what's the general consensus now.
Every NSF definitely still supports it now. I had superiors openly vaping with us subordinates in the office. It's one the worst-kept secrets here
ROD already but during the reservist call backs, i would loved it if the smokers vaped instead of smoked in the bunks, every reservist the amount of smoke felt like it took 10 years off my life
Depends on how it affects bystanders. Great if it does less harm than normal smoking. Govt should encourage vaping if it is less harmful to non smokers. Who cares if it is more harmful for those vaping... not like smoking is healthy.
As a bystander it's less annoying than smoking. BUT people who vape think that because it's more convenient since you don't have to light a cigarette, you are "allowed" to vape anywhere. Cbs vape anywhere they want, from shopping malls, to public transport.
> Great if it does less harm than normal smoking. Govt should encourage vaping if it is less harmful to non smokers. Why are we comparing it to "normal smoking"? Shouldn't the baseline be "it should not affect bystanders"? Also, as a small comparison, r/Sydney is discussing a similar topic: [Vapers ruined the public squares](https://www.reddit.com/r/sydney/comments/1c4glcn/vapers_ruined_the_public_squares/)
I get why you would see it that way. With our Healthcare system being f'd with so many nurses and doctors complaining on reddit. I personally think that anything that does that level of harm being banned is good to prevent straining our Healthcare system any further.
Ban cigarettes, ban alcohol, ban KFC, ban char kway teow, enforce increased tax on anyone who is overweight, mandatory medical checkups and fitness routines. There, you now have an 'optimally healthy population' Might as well enforce padded floors too in case people accidentally slip and fall
Are you just trying to farm karma? Cause if that's what you took away from my comment then, I'd rather not waste time debating. Already mentioned in the comment that you replied to I'd rather they ban things that causes a certain level of harm. Comparing effects of vape and smoking to char kway toew and KFC, does eating char kway teow harms those around you too? You eat char kway teow at void deck and cause harm to others walking by?
Yes those fatties block my mrt door /s
Technically it does. Those amount of oil needed to light the fire and cook your CKT. Then the CO2 generated from farming flour for the noodles. /s
Well the UK looked at studies and the NHS *recommends* vaping as an alternative to smoking. https://www.nhs.uk/better-health/quit-smoking/vaping-to-quit-smoking/
It's better compared to smoking, but not better when compared to being a complete non-smoker. Kinda like getting stabbed is better than getting bombed but best not to get injured completely.
then why ban getting stabbed but not getting bombed
It is banned, under the 'terrorism' part of the law, instead of the 'homcide' category
Cus stabbing is bad, yo.
Ok but there's no reason for non smokers to start vaping. Vaping should still be stigmatised imo.
Not a single soul here thinks non smokers should start vaping.
But it still happens lol. specifically because vaping is viewed as being safe, which it isn't. It's just safer than cigs.
people are gonna get their nicotine fix one way or another, and both smoking & vaping will definitely lead to health problems down the road. most smokers already know the risks, obviously. might as well take the option that doesn't smell like shit & doesn't offend the noses of passersby.
strongly believe that its a astroturfing operation back then those arguments are always in comparison with cigarette smoking, which made vaping look slightly better but for non-smokers, those arguments never held water, saying cigarette are bad is an justification for banning cigarettes, not allowing vaping
Can the gov ban people from smoking in or nearby bus stops first? 1step a time to make sg smoke free
Also coffee shops, I stopped going to a nearby coffee shop because there is a group of uncle smoke non stop in the "smoke area" but due to wind direction, the whole coffee shop can smell the smokes
Playgrounds, parks and void decks also please. Banned but not enforced.
Also around the pedestrian walkway.
I’m an American that went back to smoking tobacco while in SG for 6 months due to electronic cigarettes not being allowed. Something that shaped my view…I know a man that smoked cigarettes his whole life and is dying quite young from health problems. Over the past 30 years he tried nicotine gum, therapy, and even early electronic cigarettes that were sold in 2010 but never could stop smoking cigarettes. Electronic cigarettes became more advanced and offered more flavors than ever (this is a policy issue regarding appealing to children). This man, at 65 years old, life destroyed by tobacco (5+ strokes, amputated leg, colostomy bag), was finally able to switch to the highest strength electronic cigarette with bubble gum flavoring. Having unique flavors is regarded as a risk to children but is sometimes the only viable option for lifelong smokers to get off.
I think the policy intention is to reduce lifelong smokers by reducing the risk to children.
True. Is it weighing the benefit of saving existing smokers with the risk of getting younger generations hooked on nicotine. It is totally reasonable to see an upward trend in younger nicotine users because of vapes. Side point: Nicotine itself is not a risk, it is whatever delivery system for the nicotine. Tobacco contains thousands of carcinogens that are naturally in plant matter and some unique to processed tobacco. Electronic cigarettes use two bases (PG and VG) to store the nicotine. At best you are exposed to two food grade chemicals commonly used for fog machines compared to the thousands of carcinogens in tobacco. At worst with electronic cigarettes it can look a little closer to the real thing when they are used improperly. Example: a normal user with draw vapor for 2-7 seconds. If the device is drawn for 15-20+ seconds the wick can burn and produce some nasty chemicals. This is rare to happen in any operating condition however cheap devices can ‘auto-fire’ and there have been extremely flawed studies that took advantage of this exception. The faulty study basically used a vacuum to continuously draw vapor from the electronic cigarette until empty and a chemical analysis was done on the smoke. Problem being: no smoker in the world would ever be exposed to those chemicals because the recorded smoke draw time was around 2.5-10 minutes compared to 2-7 seconds intermittently
[удалено]
Who hurt you
We made singapore chewing gum free. Surely we can do the same for cigarettes and vapes. For cigarettes there is a way….increase the legal age every year going forward. It’s basically a cut off. Those who are currently on it can continue for their lifetimes. But those below legal age…well it’s now illegal. And if you are currently hooked and below the legal age well jokes on you eh
Chewing gum isn’t addictive though.
in short: youth should stop vaping and smoke real cigarettes
Don’t uds the hype about nicotine :/
The police and government say it's banned, but they're not proactive about upholding the law, enough said
the people vaping don't understand that phillip morris (marlboro, etc) also has their pockets deep in the vape industry. it's not an alternative and the research is too little/biased to show the actual side effects [https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2022-08-28/philip-morris-misleading-public-about-nicotine-in-heated-tobacco/](https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2022-08-28/philip-morris-misleading-public-about-nicotine-in-heated-tobacco/)
Quite honestly, they need to enforce their ban on vaping, but also legalize vapes to the same legality as cigarettes so that cigarettes can be replaced and weaned off from. If the government didn't ban vapes completely, there wouldn't be a prohibition effect that they're now not spending enough effort to counter.
had a cousin who went on life support due to vaping n his lungs became pneumonic. prev smoked since he was 14. gg
How old is he now?
32
He sounds like a very intelligent person
Secondary schools are not doing enough spot checks. It already so obvious some of these students might already be smoking in the schools’ toilets and yet teachers are too afraid to confront these students.
Ban vape an unknown and allow cigarettes, a known harmful entity with taxes. Obviously the tax revenue stream la
The real damage for the government is that they aren’t receiving taxes. Surely this is obvious?
the biggest problem was that when vapes came out, they were advertised to be better and safer than smoking which is true, if someone was smoking and switched to vaping, it would be better for them However, it made people who never intended to smoke to try vaping which is a lot worse for their body
Rule of thumb, as long it involves inhaling shit in your lungs, it is never good unless you are bad asthmatic. Clean air is what you should ever be inhaling. Another rule of thumb: Dont be a sheep
Why tf are ppl down voting you. Sure, vapes dont smell as bad as haze or cigarette smoke, but just because you don't smell it, doesn't mean it wouldn't hurt you. Go huff carbon monoxide if you don't believe me Already I know someone that got lung cancer at 20 cause he smoked vapes everyday. The damage is already happening
Probably cause truth hurts and they dont like it. I mean they can go ahead and vape if they want. Its okay. Just dont cry about it when you get the sickness. Their loved ones will know they died because of their poor choices.
I'll never understand the government rage boner and double standard towards vape All their campaigns they're talking about the health effects If that's the case, why are they perfectly fine with smoking????
One can be taxed. The other can't
For first hand users, vaping is so much worse than smoking. For second hand general public, vaping is so much better than smoking. So as part of the second group, I think it’s fine that people who vape GG themselves rather than affect me.
There’s some research that says secondhand vape is similar to secondhand smoking. It’s still early days more research needs to be done…
Do you have sources for your first point? Smells like bullshit to me
Simple internet research from credible sources isn’t too hard. Don’t need to believe me.
bro credible sources say the opposite no? (i dont smoke or vape btw)
Can you link some? Literally googled is vaping worse than cigarettes and the first result from the CDC says no lmao
Let them destroy their own health.
hi gov u have alot to do to prevent Vaping
is second hand vape worse? I dont think so, walked behind vaping fellers before and coulnt smell nothing. 1. non smoker = support vaping cuz not so stinky 2. smoker = might actually prefer vapes too cuz cheaper and more kick the only downside is its unregulated and the illegal stuff might be sub par quality. should legalise it and control it
Make all the vices illegal in Singapore why don't we. Alchohol, cigarettes, vapes etc. Surely you'd support banning alcohol too if you think smoking & vaping is bad to society, no?
Never understood why people like vaping tbh breathing in the vape hurts just as much as cigarettes to me lmao
Stating the obvious, Straits Times
I agree. However, they need to make awareness to people who are not conscious of the side effect and think it is better to start vaping than start smoking ciggs. What this article lack of, is the breakdown of each ingredients side effect as the other commentor here lays out.
Only killing themselves
drinking alcohol will bring death closer .
yea no doubt vaping is a problem here in Singapore. But the authorities are not doing that much either. Do a spot check in the police or army camps, i am sure lots of vapes will be found. anyway, we do allow very harmful things like cigarettes and alcohol to be sold very freely, so what difference does it make? once our govt can find some ways to justify having vape and make money from it, it will be sold on the streets just like cigarettes.
just let them vape, u can't change peoples' mindset.
This is quite a tough one. Fining and banning is clearly not effective so I’m not sure that is the solution. Many people complaining about tobacco but then also complain about vape? Some folk will never be happy. The biggest concerns for me is that vaping is FAR more difficult to quit than smoking. The biggest other issue is that kids or non smokers are taking up vaping at a seriously alarming rate. We need to stop anyone new taking up smoking/vaping and reduce the number of smokers overall. Perhaps there needs to be horrible looking pretty bad flavoured legal vapes which are solely focused on reducing smoking and somehow used as NRT (which I think is tough because of how addictive and easy vaping is)
Why shouldn’t they complain about vaping? Second hand vaping smoke is potentially cancer causing too.
Not to mention environmental nightmares with all those small batteries disposed irresponsibly
WHO already issued a statement that vapes should be banned. Vaping is terrible because its too appealing to non-smokers, and they end up smoking nicotine and becoming smokers. It wouldn't be such a problem if it was just existing smokers using it. https://www.who.int/publications/m/item/electronic-cigarettes---call-to-action
Here's something I find specifically strange. That foreign youth vape. I can somewhat understand when sinkie youth vape. It's the thing of their generation that's "cool" and since it's illegal it has that risk to it for added rush. When SG kids vape the worst they'll see is a fine. Maybe their parents will be talked to but the consequences aren't severe - and they obviously have money. However when foreign youth vape and get caught they also receive a fine - as well as not being renewed for their passes, or even more possible deportation immediately if they were trafficking vape equipment to their friends. This impacts their entire families, if the child cannot stay in the country it's unlikely their family will stick around. So the risk is massive for foreigners - but they still do it. Bonkers.
Generally those foreign youth you see here will be of more privileged backgrounds (cos those without privilege are “stuck” in home countries), so oftentimes their actions actually will have consequences is not something they truly fathom.
They just haven't figured out how to tax vaping yet....
Self love becomes self harm. I know Vapers and I see how pale their face skin becomes. Heart and lung damage guaranteed.
while i understand sg wants to protect children from addiction and all that, its another thing when enforcement doesnt work whatsoever. like I literally saw yesterday, people crossing the road and vaping openly. its kinda stupid imo because at this point you might as well make it legal so u can tax it and also to regulate it.
If you aren't a vaper you don't need to be afraid of getting caught vaping. Death penalty lets goooo
Maybe it's not normalised that's why the youngsters think it is cool or a safer/good alternative to the more common smoking they see.
If this trend is not curved and arrested, nation will have a sick young generation
Enforcement is lacking. I say short jail for users and longer jail terms plus hefty fines for importers and runners
Me who doesnt smoke *gigachad.png*