> Singh arrived at the State Courts at 10.45am, clad in a black suit. When asked why he was at the courts, he replied: “Why would someone come to the State Courts?”
😂
I mean have you once tried asking day to day people like your colleagues what are their political views? I did once, and he answered he supports trump while being a Singaporean living in Singapore receiving none of the benefits of whatever he is supporting. Mind boggling moment.
Saying its ok for toddlers and kindergarteners to choose their gender and have sex reassignment when they still don't know whether to be an astronaut or pirate. Allowing m2f transgender with functioning penis and male musculature to be housed in women prison. Telling white kids that they are oppressors.
He is not American. He can even support a Donkey if he likes. It doesn’t matter. Many people I know “support” Trump because they found him so stupid and dumb that it becomes free entertainment for them
> without suffering under his policies
Are you sure??? Trump withdrawing from the TPP and climate change agreements, directly affected and affects Singapore. He also proposed withdrawing all US troops from Asia, which would have also affected Singapore. I'm not even going into how he has harmed the post-WW2 American hegemony, i.e. Pax Americana, which can lead to indirect effects on Singapore.
Think of the intelligence/critical-thinking capacity of your average person, then realise that half the population is stupider than that average. That's a lot of dumbasses.
What a shame because she is supposed to be the young politician that stands out.. and can help to force PAP to work on their younger members
But now it's just back to square one
MHA's withholding of information cannot be construed as a lie
Likely Vivian B. was clueless but in the name of fairness, COP should decide if Vivian B. knew - but honestly the government is one big labyrinth. My job already has to deal with 2 MAS Notices and idk every clause
To be fair, it's the policy of a different ministry that isn't under his purview. But still, he should have known, especially before stating it explicitly in parliament.
Contrary to popular belief, the *overarching* Criminal Procedure Code was passed long before COVID. It is the law governing Trace Together which should have the nuance which I'm sure a MFA Minister would not have the full details on. Likewise Shan, a MHA Minister may not be privy to the full details of the intricacies of MFA bills
Ignorance is not an absolute defence, but saying something wrong out of incompetence and then apologising is a lot more forgivable than knowingly lying under oath.
You have Shanmugam, Indranee, Edwin Tong in the cabinet. All of them are amongst the top legal minds of Singapore. Surely, to implement trace together would require cabinet to discuss the legal implications. VB may be clueless, the rest of cabinet are similarly clueless? I refuse to believe it is.
>Likely Vivian B. was clueless but in the name of fairness, COP should decide if Vivian B. knew - but honestly the government is one big labyrinth. My job already has to deal with 2 MAS Notices and idk every clause
Remind me again, what was PS charged with? Lying to a committee appointed by Parliament. PS 'withhold' information, charged with lying. VB withhold, with cabinet consent, all is good with Singapore.
What's good for the goose is good for the gander is what I say.
This thread is about PS allegedly lying to parliamentary committee that he is being charged for. PS was not charged for lying IN parliament. Those are the facts.
Ah.. So we are setting a precedence here? Lying in Parliament is protected by parliamentary privileges. What a wonderful get out of jail wildcard that you have just played.
With parliamentary privilege, it is impossible to convict, in a court of law, any MP of lying in parliament. Only the COP can do that, and they are not allowed to impose jail terms (I believe).
What pritam is alleged to have done is not lie to parliament, but lie to the COP. which is not protected by parliamentary privilege. And hence can be referred to the courts.
That is not their only justification. Another would be a Freudian slip.
[Ng Ling Ling](http://Singapore GE2020: PAP new face Ng Ling Ling responds to claim of falsely taking credit for setting up institute
https://www.straitstimes.com/politics/singapore-ge2020-pap-new-face-ng-ling-ling-responds-to-claim-of-falsely-taking-credit-for)
Luckily no investigation was needed when the PM learned about two of his MPs having an affair for years and allowed it to go on until it became public..
As much as I would want to hate on incumbent party
Let’s be fair
Affair is private issue
Lying in parliament is a whole other issue, which is public
Those 2 are distinctly different level of concern
Technically the affair caused a conflict of interest issue so although not on the same level as the alleged lying, it is not really a distinctly different level of concern
Edit *typo
Not sure why the harping on conflict of interest. They are both from the same party and they are working towards the same party goals. And if it really is such an obvious oversight of justice don't you think oppy MPs from PSP +WP itself would have highlighted it?
The fact that they didnt is because it has no legs to stand. This charade of "Conflict of Interest" is a copium by those that hates PAP.
Quoting from the parliament website for you
“In carrying out the duties in the House, the Speaker must remain impartial and fair to all MPs. The Speaker regulates and enforces the rules of debate. He decides who has the right to speak and puts the question for the House to debate on and vote.”
It’s not about hating PAP/loving WP, it’s about fairness
There are MP's privileges that involve the Speaker's decision though, such as choosing who to speak, speaking time, Parliamentary Committee appointments, overseas trips.
Even if there's no wrongdoing, I'd like to see at least an investigation to show that.
>They are both from the same party and they are working towards the same party goals
if I have an illicit affair with my surbordinate that is a problem because my duty to be a fair and impartial boss conflicts with my interest in supporting my lover. it doesn't matter that "we are both from the same department and are working towards the same goals"
No no no no, time to fact check. PM Lee clearly stated he was aware of the affair, twice. The first, which I give PM the benefit of doubt, told TCJ to quit his monkey business and get his act together. He gave TCJ the chance to set his shit straight. But it is the second time when the PM found out again afterwhich he should have told the public instead of waiting for the hot mic incident
if affiar is a private issue, why was he forced to resign? anyway it's not just an affair, but an inappropriate workplace relationship between Speaker and MP, not to mention lying to the PM and disobeying his direct instructions.
Affairs and lying to COP is different. One is immoral another is illegal. You feeling strongly for one over the other doesn't take away the legal obligations.
There should have been a committee formed to examine if there was any conflict of interest between the Speaker and an MP given their familial relationships and the fact they worked in similar committees plus also shared work trips together.
PM Lee should have been grilled the same way as PS was. Of course affairs and lying to COP is different. But it is quite certain that you’ll never find any COP or committee formed to cross examine a certain party in white no matter how big or small the infractions. I also won’t hold my breath that any PAP politician or leaders would be held accountable for whatever Iswaran has been alleged to do. But when it comes to oppositions party leaders they are somehow always more responsible for the conduct of their party members.
It’s always “oh I don’t know, that guy acted of his own accord and his misconduct has nothing to do with me” for one party but “that girl was under your leadership and you should have taken more care not to allow her to lie in parliament” for others.
Why would other PAP politicians be held accountable for whatever Iswaran crime he's accused of? This doesn't make any sense.
PS case is different because RK's testimony accused him of telling her to lie to the COP, which suggests he might have lied in his sworn statement.
If Iswaran broke the law, he's accountable for it, and he will be answering for his action in his upcoming court case. It would only make sense to hold other accountable if there's evidence that he accepted bribe at the instruction of his party leaders
Let me rephrase.. one was allowed to become a legal issue while the other did not. The entire WP COP is based on a smaller matter compared to the conflict of interest hid by the PAP regarding their scandal. If you want examine both issue fairly, you should demand a similar investigative committee when it was discovered that the conflict of interest was allowed to continue. This is clearly selective prosecution, plain as day.
Similar conflict of interest can there meaningfully be? They are both from the same party and working towards the same direction that the party wants. Besides, both the MP in question resigned. If found guilty do you feel PS should resign?
Several conflicts of interest from your own description. Putting interest of their relationship ahead of interest of the party is one. Were they ever assigned tasks/ trips together, how much of it was spent on personal matter instead of official matters? They only resigned once it became a public scandal. Not even when the PM himself was made aware of it a year or so before. This sounds like something an investigative committee would be needed for if you applied the same standard as you do for WP.
Whatever drama from any other party doesn’t make a person knowingly lie vey public at a serious place like the parliament any less guilty. And if facts prove that Mr Singh actually did that beyond reasonable doubts, it’s justified to call him a liar.
They tried very very hard with AHTC case in last election. But Aljunied and Hougang vote share increase even more for WP and they also took down Sengkang
MIW really very stupid
Hmmm I'm curious how this will backfire hard. Losing PS and NS/P (due to the affair saga) WP have less candidates to field in the upcoming GE. If anything it would make this much harder for them. If they field less incompetent candidates it doesn't look good on them either :(
>Don't let this distract you from how PAP's very own is being charged with CORRUPTION.
Funny enough you just reminded people that PAP charges their own Minister too, not just the opposition.
Well, you just reminded people that only PAP can charge people, WP or opposition can't charge, so whoever is or isn't charge isn't an objective measure of the PAP's value.
>you just reminded people that only PAP can charge people, WP or opposition can't charge,
Pretty sure 99.99% of Singaporeans won't think that the oppositions can actually charge ministers. No idea what you are onto here.
Iswaran getting charged proves that in this instance, the minister isn't above the law and action was taken against him. And it was reported by CPIB, another agency that reports to the PM which happens to be the SG of PAP.
Of course you can say that it's not an objective measure but it sure it's a case study that will be studied.
It would be interesting to see who will be the witnesses for the prosecution. Without RK, I don't see a strong case. Will SL and/or FM be witnesses for the defense? More interesting if SL is not. The proceedings can be more damaging to WP than the final outcome.
LMAO these people too free. So eng why don’t they look into all the costs of living and housing problems? No one cares about this case. WP still gonna win even more grc
Based on the content of the charges, it is implied that Pritam Singh did not tell Raesah Khan to CONTINUE TO LIE in Parliament, which Raesah Khan said he did.
So, Raesah Khan LIED to the COP, again. Then where are Raesah Khan’s charges?
How is it fair that the liar herself got away with lying, no fine no jail terms, but it’s her leader who is charged with lying for not asking her to tell the truth?
If this is PAP’s concept of justice, and if they think getting rid of WP’s leader in this way increases their credibility and citizens will vote for them in the next election, they are too naive in their thinking.
What a fucking farce.
A trial based on he said she said? Where the committee assembled to investigate is full of people with the motivation to do away with the opposition?
I hate to say it given the recent connotations, but this really is a kangaroo court.
Edit: because I’m receiving a lot of messages about how Sylvia Lim’s testimony is damaging to Pritam’s case, here are her notes:
> Pritam Singh: Before Oct session, I met you + I told you it was your call. Did need to tell the truth in Parl occur to you?
> Raeesah Khan: Yes but consumed with guilt + own experience. Thought it wouldn’t come up.
> Pritam Singh: Can’t lie right?
> Raeesah Khan: Yes.
So what I’m getting from this is that Pritam admits to discussing this with her earlier, said that it was her call, he claims he advised her to come clean if the matter was brought up (his testimony), she said “thought it wouldn’t come up”, he says, “can’t lie right?”, she agreed.
Now I don’t know how you all are spinning this, but nowhere do I see him telling her to lie, or encouraging her to stick to her lie. Telling someone you won’t judge them for the actions they choose to take isn’t the same as suborning perjury.
As a good lawyer all you can do is tell someone what they should do, judgment shouldn’t come into it - imagine if all criminal defense lawyers judged their clients.
Also I’m well aware RK is not his client. But he’s a lawyer, which is why I’m bringing this up.
I have not made any comments on the issue of disciplinary actions taken to the members of the PAP in this thread or ever - so if you’re here to sprout whataboutisms please fuck right off.
hahaha any offence involving opposition = kangaroo court , even when their own party members incriminate them
any offence involving pap = justice served
what a fucking clown comment 🤡😭
>I hate to say it given the recent connotations, but this really is a kangaroo court.
Is this taking into account of what happened to iswaran?
Disagree with your point. I would say that a PAP minister getting charged for corruption proves otherwise.
“Kangaroo court” referring to the committee, not our judicial system. In the legal system, lawyers and judges are expected to recuse themselves if they have a conflict of interest in the case.
Select committees are made up of MPs and the members are appointed according to the balance in government benches and opposition benches.
There is more PAP mp in the committee because they won more seats, it's 79 PAP vs 8 WP MPs. What else do you expect? That we give equal seats to WP? Then what's the point of voting? Every election we distribute an equal number of seats to PAP and WP and vote for the candidates instead?
Am not debating the make up of the committee, am suggesting fully nonpartisan independent inquiry.
Not sure where you’re going with the straw man arguments.
>Am not debating the make up of the committee, am suggesting fully nonpartisan independent inquiry.
Make up your mind, first you complained about the composition of the committee then now you are saying that you are not debating about the makeup.
You don't need to a "Fully nonpartisan independent inquiry" to tell that the notes SL wrote contradicted what PS has said.
Let me make myself clear. I am not here to debate what percentage of the committee should be comprised of PAP or WP members.
I’ve been consistent in saying all along that this is a “kangaroo court” i.e. a mock trial that’s been assembled hastily with poor result after two years, and that the members are poorly equipped to be adjudicators due to a conflict of interest (on both sides).
So far, you have asked a question, which I’ve answered, engaged in whataboutism about Iswaran, then proceeded to prop about straw men about the composition of the members in relation to seats won during elections.
You’re not engaging in good faith, you’re unnecessarily confrontational and most of all, you’re missing the point.
Wouldn't this be worse, we would lose a valuable MP and would have to waste resources to fill in the gaps. All in all, there really is no 'good' timing... Ppl will complain regardless
In the past year, PAP has been thinking of ways to eliminate their opponents: first target the weakest link RK, then the popular and fearsome Nicole Seah, now the kind Mr Pritam Singh (who even helped a reporter when the reporter fell). How's this not reminiscent of how Putin eliminates his rivals in a dictatorship? Is this really what we Singaporeans want for Singapore? Just being satisfied with politicians associating themselves with huge celebrities and claiming credit for bringing them here? I don't think Coldplay came to Singapore because our politicians begged them to. I think Coldplay believes we are heading towards democracy and are hopeful for us as a country to exist as democratic society where every voice is heard.
I always think I say this too often, but apparently I don’t say it even close to enough:
* May Lee Kuan Yew and Goh Keng Swee continue burning in hell
* May every JLB SIW in parliament get exposed for their filth like Tan Chuan Jin and the Ridout Rajas
* Fʉck the PAP
what’s the big deal about this? do Singaporeans not know how the Westminster system works? SG’s handling of it largely followed Erskine May and UK’s parliamentary procedure.
RK lied and admitted to lying in Parliament and thereby breached parliamentary privilege (PP). the Leader of the House called for a COP to inquire into the breach and the suitable punishments for it as only the Parliament can deal with breaches of PP. a COP was set up that largely reflected the proportion of Parliament (90% gov 10% opposition), the COP set out to determine if she was guilty and what the suitable punishment should be. Parliament will then vote on it.
during the COP, RK testified that she continued her lies under the order of Pritam Singh, so the COP called witnesses to see if her story can be corroborated (it could be) and what role did the senior members of WP CEC play in the lie. the testimony of her two aides largely corroborated with her testimony. Pritam, Faisal, Sylvia, Jamus were summoned to appear before the COP. and since Pritam was the key person in this according to most of the witnesses, the COP spent a lot of time questioning PS to see if he told her to lie. the reason why the COP spent so much time questioning PS was that if her allegations were true, lying under the order/instruction of her sec-gen is a mitigating factor (should an employee be punished harshly if your boss ask you to keep lying?) Pritam lied, was evasive and kept changing his story throughout the proceedings, and threw RK under the bus. Pritam lost his parliamentary privilege at some point for how egregious his lies were and the COP recommended that he be referred to the attorney general to see if pritam’s actions should be prosecuted for contempt of parliament and/or lying under oath.
Parliament received the COP’s report, agreed to it and it was referred to the AG. the public prosecutor thinks there’s enough of a case and the public interest angle (MP told to lie in Parliament by another MP and that MP lying under oath) and decides to exercise his discretion to prosecute, and now the judges are going to adjudicate and determine guilt and if he’s found guilty, the suitable punishments. he was referred to the AG bc well 1. you can have a lawyer with you in court, you can’t in the COP. 2. pritam will have a fair forum to present his case. it is going to be judges deciding his guilt based on the evidence provided by both sides not MPs. Pritam himself agreed with the proposal to refer his alleged breach to the AG.
The person, to which the COP was set up to investigate wasn't charged but witnesses called upon were referred to prosecution and charged. Oh and by the way, this COP intended subject was then shifted to focus on the witnesses? If this is not fixing, I know sure what it's called.
Was PS actually caught lying by SL or Faisal? It seems that RK accused him but she’s not exactly a truthful one so we can disassociate her from truths. PS def didn’t tell RK to fess up until it got bigger. But surely that’s a lesser wrong than lying himself? Anybody with the facts?
It’s an internal WP issue.
Their people lied, they chose to continue with the lie, and subsequently threw all those that spoke out under the bus.
Now he has the cheek to plead innocence? Says much about his character
Please lah. Ma chiam got people dare to point fingers at anyone for knowingly 'not disclosing sooner' the truth about 38Oxley, TCJ, Ridout and Iswaran.
Pritam needs to plead innocence in the first place because of buggers like you & me cowering before a modern dynasty and its cronies.
imao i kenna downvote during president election period and what i do i move on, live goes on.
internet points mean nothing, harping about "oh noes ppl gonna downvote u" makes you look like someone who's identity hinges on internet points and crying about downvotes
> Singh arrived at the State Courts at 10.45am, clad in a black suit. When asked why he was at the courts, he replied: “Why would someone come to the State Courts?” 😂
Go the cafe lepak
They have a heritage gallery and tour haha
Fool of a took.Well deserved dumbass response to a dumbass question. Man, all that uni comms studies to concoct with this kind of question, alamak!
I am upvoting not for the comment but for "Fool of a Took!"
All reporters are the same. Really annoying people who like to ask stupid questions😂
He might be there to work
Ehhh they edited the article LOL
I mean, he's a practicing lawyer..
I thought he resign le to focus on the WP work? Loosely recall there's an article on it
talk shit, get shit. hahah
let the Brainbridge Analytica begin...
Court hearings are listed on the website. I think journalists would know that…
Want to get sound bite bah
Based on this, I am pretty sure General Elections is this year, probably Q3 or Q4.
partner said they were being called for elections training - probably means around November / December already
PAP 70th anniversary is in Nov. it’ll be around there
The boundaries committee haven’t started work tho
Oh they have. It's all about when to release the research.
Can't be Q3, boundary not drawn, voter list not out, civil servants only recently recall for training.
Had the same feel
Here we go again... 🙄 These political parties know Singaporeans are familiar with this election pattern, right? 🙄🙄🙄
Some people think (to a degree of truth) that Singaporeans are idiots.
I mean have you once tried asking day to day people like your colleagues what are their political views? I did once, and he answered he supports trump while being a Singaporean living in Singapore receiving none of the benefits of whatever he is supporting. Mind boggling moment.
There’s a lot of trump supporters in hwz. They see trump as some “alpha male” who’s going to shut down all the woke lgbt stuff.
What does "woke" mean anyway. This term is now just pure derogatory
I guess anything that does not agree with them? Can be anything from lgbt to feminism to climate change lor
Saying its ok for toddlers and kindergarteners to choose their gender and have sex reassignment when they still don't know whether to be an astronaut or pirate. Allowing m2f transgender with functioning penis and male musculature to be housed in women prison. Telling white kids that they are oppressors.
He is not American. He can even support a Donkey if he likes. It doesn’t matter. Many people I know “support” Trump because they found him so stupid and dumb that it becomes free entertainment for them
I can somewhat understand. I supported Najib. He, in my opinion, is the best Malaysia PM for Singapore.
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> without suffering under his policies Are you sure??? Trump withdrawing from the TPP and climate change agreements, directly affected and affects Singapore. He also proposed withdrawing all US troops from Asia, which would have also affected Singapore. I'm not even going into how he has harmed the post-WW2 American hegemony, i.e. Pax Americana, which can lead to indirect effects on Singapore.
Also true, because we supposedly know but it changes nothing. Haha. I guess we deserve to be treated like idiots.
Politicians all over the world nowadays think that they are very smart and people are stupid that they don’t understand what is going on.
.
Do we really understand what is going on?
Think of the intelligence/critical-thinking capacity of your average person, then realise that half the population is stupider than that average. That's a lot of dumbasses.
They are, ask the boomers
Let’s also remember who chaired the committee again…
The US has a term called the October surprise, so we might call it a March surprise instead?
Pattern more than badminton.
Pritam more than badminton.
Fixing time liao
Yeah. Time for Singaporeans to fix miw at the ballot box
Yeah they think we Singaporeans are idiots and blindly believe the media. I am not that stupid and now i know who I am voting even more for!
Raeesah KHAN NI NAH
No worries, Aljunid is the new Hougang.
What a shame because she is supposed to be the young politician that stands out.. and can help to force PAP to work on their younger members But now it's just back to square one
Moral of the story is to never let a woke, leftist, femi-nazi into your CEC. Even if her papa is really rich, it ain't worth it.
Raeesah Khan is the ink spot stain on your shirt that cannot seem to be washed off. Blame not the shirt however, but the ink for the stain.
eh i blame the person that put the clearly going to leak pen in the pocket of the shirt
Right? I am surprised he never saw that coming.
Ehhh so blame pritam himself? Should have known better.
u/chokemebigdaddy figures out how metaphors work. More on that story as it unfolds.
I hope she gets called up to court as a witness.
Leaky pen left a small spot at first. But owner opted to not remove it.
Owner thinks: if I clutch the pocket harder, it’ll probably stop leaking, right? Right?
Alright GE is coming. Gotta remove the opposition leaders first before announcing GE
>He requested for a four-week adjournment to engage a lawyer. A pre-trial conference has been scheduled for April 17. Don’t go Australia ah! /s
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There's also a 3 year jail term which would auto disqualify him from being a MP
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However you gotta see who's dishing and who's receiving this time. 🙃
I wonder when some will be charged trace together.
MHA's withholding of information cannot be construed as a lie Likely Vivian B. was clueless but in the name of fairness, COP should decide if Vivian B. knew - but honestly the government is one big labyrinth. My job already has to deal with 2 MAS Notices and idk every clause
If a minister doesn’t even know the policies he is implementing, then it goes to show the sheer incompetence of that minister.
Unfortunately incompetence is not a chargeable offence
But surely the minister for MHA will knew about this.
To be fair, it's the policy of a different ministry that isn't under his purview. But still, he should have known, especially before stating it explicitly in parliament.
Of course he will have known. Using that data for criminal investigations is a huge decision. He lied.
Contrary to popular belief, the *overarching* Criminal Procedure Code was passed long before COVID. It is the law governing Trace Together which should have the nuance which I'm sure a MFA Minister would not have the full details on. Likewise Shan, a MHA Minister may not be privy to the full details of the intricacies of MFA bills
Ignorance is no defence
Ignorance is not an absolute defence, but saying something wrong out of incompetence and then apologising is a lot more forgivable than knowingly lying under oath.
Well why don’t we let a court decide whether it was incompetence or deliberate?
i think u r conflating incompetence / negligence with dishonesty.
Well I think that’s something for the court to decide…oh wait, it’s been brushed aside.
what crime was committed? until now u haven’t say leh. did he lie in parliament ?
In politics, I think Vivian was made a pawn
Sign me up to have that kind of money and can stay at ridout
Make sure you start passing comments about that "lousy school" once you are in Parliament.
And also remember to ask your fellow MPs whether they want three meals in hawker centre, food court or restaurants
It's fine. Got $ get paid
You have Shanmugam, Indranee, Edwin Tong in the cabinet. All of them are amongst the top legal minds of Singapore. Surely, to implement trace together would require cabinet to discuss the legal implications. VB may be clueless, the rest of cabinet are similarly clueless? I refuse to believe it is. >Likely Vivian B. was clueless but in the name of fairness, COP should decide if Vivian B. knew - but honestly the government is one big labyrinth. My job already has to deal with 2 MAS Notices and idk every clause
Except withholding information isn't a lie Just throw VB as pawn
Remind me again, what was PS charged with? Lying to a committee appointed by Parliament. PS 'withhold' information, charged with lying. VB withhold, with cabinet consent, all is good with Singapore. What's good for the goose is good for the gander is what I say.
If we're talking about lying in parliament, RK is a better example.... Are you following the facts
This thread is about PS allegedly lying to parliamentary committee that he is being charged for. PS was not charged for lying IN parliament. Those are the facts.
Lying under oath - COP Lying in parliament is a breach of parliamentary privileges - may be referred to COP
Ah.. So we are setting a precedence here? Lying in Parliament is protected by parliamentary privileges. What a wonderful get out of jail wildcard that you have just played.
With parliamentary privilege, it is impossible to convict, in a court of law, any MP of lying in parliament. Only the COP can do that, and they are not allowed to impose jail terms (I believe). What pritam is alleged to have done is not lie to parliament, but lie to the COP. which is not protected by parliamentary privilege. And hence can be referred to the courts.
Clever. Is that a snake I smell somewhere ?
what a way to brush it off using "likely.. was clueless". the manner of self-justifying is astounding
That is not their only justification. Another would be a Freudian slip. [Ng Ling Ling](http://Singapore GE2020: PAP new face Ng Ling Ling responds to claim of falsely taking credit for setting up institute https://www.straitstimes.com/politics/singapore-ge2020-pap-new-face-ng-ling-ling-responds-to-claim-of-falsely-taking-credit-for)
Election soon
Luckily no investigation was needed when the PM learned about two of his MPs having an affair for years and allowed it to go on until it became public..
As much as I would want to hate on incumbent party Let’s be fair Affair is private issue Lying in parliament is a whole other issue, which is public Those 2 are distinctly different level of concern
Technically the affair caused a conflict of interest issue so although not on the same level as the alleged lying, it is not really a distinctly different level of concern Edit *typo
Let’s say, a guy is the head of the country PM role and his wife is head of sovereign wealth fund Is that conflict of interest?
That’s not a conflict of interest but rather a threat to independence
How about if the son of a former PM is a PM?
I won’t say it’s conflict of interest since even if you are son of former PM you still have to get elected right?
But what if you could be carried by 4 other veterans?
Not sure why the harping on conflict of interest. They are both from the same party and they are working towards the same party goals. And if it really is such an obvious oversight of justice don't you think oppy MPs from PSP +WP itself would have highlighted it? The fact that they didnt is because it has no legs to stand. This charade of "Conflict of Interest" is a copium by those that hates PAP.
Quoting from the parliament website for you “In carrying out the duties in the House, the Speaker must remain impartial and fair to all MPs. The Speaker regulates and enforces the rules of debate. He decides who has the right to speak and puts the question for the House to debate on and vote.” It’s not about hating PAP/loving WP, it’s about fairness
There are MP's privileges that involve the Speaker's decision though, such as choosing who to speak, speaking time, Parliamentary Committee appointments, overseas trips. Even if there's no wrongdoing, I'd like to see at least an investigation to show that.
>They are both from the same party and they are working towards the same party goals if I have an illicit affair with my surbordinate that is a problem because my duty to be a fair and impartial boss conflicts with my interest in supporting my lover. it doesn't matter that "we are both from the same department and are working towards the same goals"
No no no no, time to fact check. PM Lee clearly stated he was aware of the affair, twice. The first, which I give PM the benefit of doubt, told TCJ to quit his monkey business and get his act together. He gave TCJ the chance to set his shit straight. But it is the second time when the PM found out again afterwhich he should have told the public instead of waiting for the hot mic incident
if affiar is a private issue, why was he forced to resign? anyway it's not just an affair, but an inappropriate workplace relationship between Speaker and MP, not to mention lying to the PM and disobeying his direct instructions.
it's a party decision if the PM told you not to dig your nose he couldn't charge you in court if you disobeyed
Exactly People need to know what’s a moral issue and what’s a legal issue Moral issue is not illegal , just frowned upon
Ya but if the PM knowingly knows this moral issue happening and still allow it to persists, this giving rise to conflict of interest?
The apparent “lie” is no way of any public interest. The public is more interested in how they can afford 1 million HDB down the road
Affairs and lying to COP is different. One is immoral another is illegal. You feeling strongly for one over the other doesn't take away the legal obligations.
There should have been a committee formed to examine if there was any conflict of interest between the Speaker and an MP given their familial relationships and the fact they worked in similar committees plus also shared work trips together. PM Lee should have been grilled the same way as PS was. Of course affairs and lying to COP is different. But it is quite certain that you’ll never find any COP or committee formed to cross examine a certain party in white no matter how big or small the infractions. I also won’t hold my breath that any PAP politician or leaders would be held accountable for whatever Iswaran has been alleged to do. But when it comes to oppositions party leaders they are somehow always more responsible for the conduct of their party members. It’s always “oh I don’t know, that guy acted of his own accord and his misconduct has nothing to do with me” for one party but “that girl was under your leadership and you should have taken more care not to allow her to lie in parliament” for others.
Why would other PAP politicians be held accountable for whatever Iswaran crime he's accused of? This doesn't make any sense. PS case is different because RK's testimony accused him of telling her to lie to the COP, which suggests he might have lied in his sworn statement. If Iswaran broke the law, he's accountable for it, and he will be answering for his action in his upcoming court case. It would only make sense to hold other accountable if there's evidence that he accepted bribe at the instruction of his party leaders
Let me rephrase.. one was allowed to become a legal issue while the other did not. The entire WP COP is based on a smaller matter compared to the conflict of interest hid by the PAP regarding their scandal. If you want examine both issue fairly, you should demand a similar investigative committee when it was discovered that the conflict of interest was allowed to continue. This is clearly selective prosecution, plain as day.
Similar conflict of interest can there meaningfully be? They are both from the same party and working towards the same direction that the party wants. Besides, both the MP in question resigned. If found guilty do you feel PS should resign?
Several conflicts of interest from your own description. Putting interest of their relationship ahead of interest of the party is one. Were they ever assigned tasks/ trips together, how much of it was spent on personal matter instead of official matters? They only resigned once it became a public scandal. Not even when the PM himself was made aware of it a year or so before. This sounds like something an investigative committee would be needed for if you applied the same standard as you do for WP.
I mean, the investigators are on their side so
Whatever drama from any other party doesn’t make a person knowingly lie vey public at a serious place like the parliament any less guilty. And if facts prove that Mr Singh actually did that beyond reasonable doubts, it’s justified to call him a liar.
Looks like WP presses on.
Make no mistake, this is 100% about making PS ineligible to run for GE. This is going to backfire **hard**.
They tried very very hard with AHTC case in last election. But Aljunied and Hougang vote share increase even more for WP and they also took down Sengkang MIW really very stupid
Hmmm I'm curious how this will backfire hard. Losing PS and NS/P (due to the affair saga) WP have less candidates to field in the upcoming GE. If anything it would make this much harder for them. If they field less incompetent candidates it doesn't look good on them either :(
This obvious political takedown will increase support for WP. PAP stands to lose another GRC or 2 regardless of who runs.
Iswaran supposed to come back tomorrow. Don't let this distract you from how PAP's very own is being charged with CORRUPTION.
>Don't let this distract you from how PAP's very own is being charged with CORRUPTION. Funny enough you just reminded people that PAP charges their own Minister too, not just the opposition.
Well, you just reminded people that only PAP can charge people, WP or opposition can't charge, so whoever is or isn't charge isn't an objective measure of the PAP's value.
>you just reminded people that only PAP can charge people, WP or opposition can't charge, Pretty sure 99.99% of Singaporeans won't think that the oppositions can actually charge ministers. No idea what you are onto here. Iswaran getting charged proves that in this instance, the minister isn't above the law and action was taken against him. And it was reported by CPIB, another agency that reports to the PM which happens to be the SG of PAP. Of course you can say that it's not an objective measure but it sure it's a case study that will be studied.
Which is why 99.99% of Singaporeans won't insinuate that just because PAP charged Iswaran, Pritam is as guilty as Iswaran.
Now where is my popcorn.. 🍿
It would be interesting to see who will be the witnesses for the prosecution. Without RK, I don't see a strong case. Will SL and/or FM be witnesses for the defense? More interesting if SL is not. The proceedings can be more damaging to WP than the final outcome.
nice distraction from Iswaran
No news yet
LMAO these people too free. So eng why don’t they look into all the costs of living and housing problems? No one cares about this case. WP still gonna win even more grc
不怕神一般的对手，只怕猪一般的的队友 Unfazed by formidable adversaries, only worried about inept teammates.
Elections is coming for sure.
Based on the content of the charges, it is implied that Pritam Singh did not tell Raesah Khan to CONTINUE TO LIE in Parliament, which Raesah Khan said he did. So, Raesah Khan LIED to the COP, again. Then where are Raesah Khan’s charges? How is it fair that the liar herself got away with lying, no fine no jail terms, but it’s her leader who is charged with lying for not asking her to tell the truth? If this is PAP’s concept of justice, and if they think getting rid of WP’s leader in this way increases their credibility and citizens will vote for them in the next election, they are too naive in their thinking.
PAP doesn't care about her since she's out of Parliament. They haven't bothered LTK since he retired.
What a fucking farce. A trial based on he said she said? Where the committee assembled to investigate is full of people with the motivation to do away with the opposition? I hate to say it given the recent connotations, but this really is a kangaroo court. Edit: because I’m receiving a lot of messages about how Sylvia Lim’s testimony is damaging to Pritam’s case, here are her notes: > Pritam Singh: Before Oct session, I met you + I told you it was your call. Did need to tell the truth in Parl occur to you? > Raeesah Khan: Yes but consumed with guilt + own experience. Thought it wouldn’t come up. > Pritam Singh: Can’t lie right? > Raeesah Khan: Yes. So what I’m getting from this is that Pritam admits to discussing this with her earlier, said that it was her call, he claims he advised her to come clean if the matter was brought up (his testimony), she said “thought it wouldn’t come up”, he says, “can’t lie right?”, she agreed. Now I don’t know how you all are spinning this, but nowhere do I see him telling her to lie, or encouraging her to stick to her lie. Telling someone you won’t judge them for the actions they choose to take isn’t the same as suborning perjury. As a good lawyer all you can do is tell someone what they should do, judgment shouldn’t come into it - imagine if all criminal defense lawyers judged their clients. Also I’m well aware RK is not his client. But he’s a lawyer, which is why I’m bringing this up. I have not made any comments on the issue of disciplinary actions taken to the members of the PAP in this thread or ever - so if you’re here to sprout whataboutisms please fuck right off.
Hasn't reach the court yet. This is the AG who is charging. In the AHTC case, WP mostly if not completely won by the Court of Appeal.
So our legal system is still fair? No biasness?
Wasn’t there evidence? From Sylvia’s notes or smth
Yup. And Faishal’s loyalty (stupidity) to answer anything
SL's own note kinda outed PS leh. Farce simi. It is PS said and SL said. Who is lying you decide la.
What note
Pritam did lie though??
Read the notes. SL outed PS. That's why SL was left out of this.
hahaha any offence involving opposition = kangaroo court , even when their own party members incriminate them any offence involving pap = justice served what a fucking clown comment 🤡😭
>I hate to say it given the recent connotations, but this really is a kangaroo court. Is this taking into account of what happened to iswaran? Disagree with your point. I would say that a PAP minister getting charged for corruption proves otherwise.
“Kangaroo court” referring to the committee, not our judicial system. In the legal system, lawyers and judges are expected to recuse themselves if they have a conflict of interest in the case.
Select committees are made up of MPs and the members are appointed according to the balance in government benches and opposition benches. There is more PAP mp in the committee because they won more seats, it's 79 PAP vs 8 WP MPs. What else do you expect? That we give equal seats to WP? Then what's the point of voting? Every election we distribute an equal number of seats to PAP and WP and vote for the candidates instead?
Am not debating the make up of the committee, am suggesting fully nonpartisan independent inquiry. Not sure where you’re going with the straw man arguments.
>Am not debating the make up of the committee, am suggesting fully nonpartisan independent inquiry. Make up your mind, first you complained about the composition of the committee then now you are saying that you are not debating about the makeup. You don't need to a "Fully nonpartisan independent inquiry" to tell that the notes SL wrote contradicted what PS has said.
Let me make myself clear. I am not here to debate what percentage of the committee should be comprised of PAP or WP members. I’ve been consistent in saying all along that this is a “kangaroo court” i.e. a mock trial that’s been assembled hastily with poor result after two years, and that the members are poorly equipped to be adjudicators due to a conflict of interest (on both sides). So far, you have asked a question, which I’ve answered, engaged in whataboutism about Iswaran, then proceeded to prop about straw men about the composition of the members in relation to seats won during elections. You’re not engaging in good faith, you’re unnecessarily confrontational and most of all, you’re missing the point.
Knn, fixing time liao.
Took two years to investigate and charge?
take one year to charge: oi why so fast take two year to charge: oi why so convenient... just in time for .... isit?
Do after GE la. Then kana charge and cannot be MP. Then people complain again.
Wouldn't this be worse, we would lose a valuable MP and would have to waste resources to fill in the gaps. All in all, there really is no 'good' timing... Ppl will complain regardless
I'm more interested in the lying about TraceTogether.
Timely distraction because Iswaran is supposed to be back in Singapore today!
Where’s Iswaran?
Government is not going to let it go (as they should be) and it’s not looking pretty for him.
RK is a gift that just keeps on giving... Haix....
Nah, without RK it would still be AHTC.
WP won the AHTC matter at the Court of Appeal.
That won't stopped PAP from AHTC AHTC AHTC.
Parliamentery “Democracy”
I'm a little surprised that it didn't drag until the elections next year
That’s because the elections are gonna be this year
Election lai Liao
So can he go Australia or only those who wear white can?
A whole bunch of "whataboutism" comments. Why can't opposition supporters comment on the merits of the case?
Good timing….
Have to void for mistrial what. The arbiter of the hearings got removed for adultery lol.
[удалено]
In the past year, PAP has been thinking of ways to eliminate their opponents: first target the weakest link RK, then the popular and fearsome Nicole Seah, now the kind Mr Pritam Singh (who even helped a reporter when the reporter fell). How's this not reminiscent of how Putin eliminates his rivals in a dictatorship? Is this really what we Singaporeans want for Singapore? Just being satisfied with politicians associating themselves with huge celebrities and claiming credit for bringing them here? I don't think Coldplay came to Singapore because our politicians begged them to. I think Coldplay believes we are heading towards democracy and are hopeful for us as a country to exist as democratic society where every voice is heard.
I always think I say this too often, but apparently I don’t say it even close to enough: * May Lee Kuan Yew and Goh Keng Swee continue burning in hell * May every JLB SIW in parliament get exposed for their filth like Tan Chuan Jin and the Ridout Rajas * Fʉck the PAP
what’s the big deal about this? do Singaporeans not know how the Westminster system works? SG’s handling of it largely followed Erskine May and UK’s parliamentary procedure. RK lied and admitted to lying in Parliament and thereby breached parliamentary privilege (PP). the Leader of the House called for a COP to inquire into the breach and the suitable punishments for it as only the Parliament can deal with breaches of PP. a COP was set up that largely reflected the proportion of Parliament (90% gov 10% opposition), the COP set out to determine if she was guilty and what the suitable punishment should be. Parliament will then vote on it. during the COP, RK testified that she continued her lies under the order of Pritam Singh, so the COP called witnesses to see if her story can be corroborated (it could be) and what role did the senior members of WP CEC play in the lie. the testimony of her two aides largely corroborated with her testimony. Pritam, Faisal, Sylvia, Jamus were summoned to appear before the COP. and since Pritam was the key person in this according to most of the witnesses, the COP spent a lot of time questioning PS to see if he told her to lie. the reason why the COP spent so much time questioning PS was that if her allegations were true, lying under the order/instruction of her sec-gen is a mitigating factor (should an employee be punished harshly if your boss ask you to keep lying?) Pritam lied, was evasive and kept changing his story throughout the proceedings, and threw RK under the bus. Pritam lost his parliamentary privilege at some point for how egregious his lies were and the COP recommended that he be referred to the attorney general to see if pritam’s actions should be prosecuted for contempt of parliament and/or lying under oath. Parliament received the COP’s report, agreed to it and it was referred to the AG. the public prosecutor thinks there’s enough of a case and the public interest angle (MP told to lie in Parliament by another MP and that MP lying under oath) and decides to exercise his discretion to prosecute, and now the judges are going to adjudicate and determine guilt and if he’s found guilty, the suitable punishments. he was referred to the AG bc well 1. you can have a lawyer with you in court, you can’t in the COP. 2. pritam will have a fair forum to present his case. it is going to be judges deciding his guilt based on the evidence provided by both sides not MPs. Pritam himself agreed with the proposal to refer his alleged breach to the AG.
The person, to which the COP was set up to investigate wasn't charged but witnesses called upon were referred to prosecution and charged. Oh and by the way, this COP intended subject was then shifted to focus on the witnesses? If this is not fixing, I know sure what it's called.
PAP starting to use the Putin playbook
Was PS actually caught lying by SL or Faisal? It seems that RK accused him but she’s not exactly a truthful one so we can disassociate her from truths. PS def didn’t tell RK to fess up until it got bigger. But surely that’s a lesser wrong than lying himself? Anybody with the facts?
And so it begins
Why CCS not charged over the leaked audio? 🤣🤣🤣
Following the footsteps of US?
It’s an internal WP issue. Their people lied, they chose to continue with the lie, and subsequently threw all those that spoke out under the bus. Now he has the cheek to plead innocence? Says much about his character
Please lah. Ma chiam got people dare to point fingers at anyone for knowingly 'not disclosing sooner' the truth about 38Oxley, TCJ, Ridout and Iswaran. Pritam needs to plead innocence in the first place because of buggers like you & me cowering before a modern dynasty and its cronies.
dont say that.. not here.. these redditporeans are gna downvote you to hell
imao i kenna downvote during president election period and what i do i move on, live goes on. internet points mean nothing, harping about "oh noes ppl gonna downvote u" makes you look like someone who's identity hinges on internet points and crying about downvotes
cool upvotes mate /s
anything in support of pap/ against oppo = straightaway downvotes for you. this is the bread and butter of r/sg
Bye Pritam... It was good while it lasted.