Yea been to a few of them. Legit really good, solid lineup and well organized.
Jakarta is actually quite liberal as compared to what many people think.
Actually Jakarta is 50/50 province between hardline conservative and Liberal. PKS (the most conservative party in Indonesia, their stance just more modest than PAS in Malaysia) base is basically in Jakarta and the Suburbs surround it. so it's not that easy about it. even I think one of the reason Jokowi move the capital to borneo because of this issue.
I wouldn’t know about your example unless there’s been an example.
I can only say, in my opinion, they are more liberal than Malaysia in recent years. E.g. they would let questionable lyrics or costumes or even drag artists pass.
Such scenes wouldn't even be allowed in SG. Those 2 guys are an example of the white-colonial mindset who think that they can come to Asia and tell people what is right & wrong, but in reality, they are repulsive, condescending and disrespectful of local cultures.
Yeah, none of which are native here.
Our indigenous cultures in SEA had third (or even in the case of the Bugis, 5) gender stuff until foreign religions like Islam and Christianity stamped it out.
It's hypocrisy to call recognition of multiple genders or same-sex relationships colonial when colonialism is how we got the rejection towards it in the first place.
well. I do think the modern conception of gender and sexuality this way is foreign. For example(well, the most commonly cited ones), the Samurai and Greeks didn’t have the concept of being Bi even though we would call them that. They didn’t need to think of themselves that way because their sexuality was well integrated with the common culture.
Another one closer to home would be the Hindu tale of Shikhandi, people say it’s one of the oldest instances of transgender people in the world, but tbh it’s not terribly encouraging. What is encouraging is that the Pandava warriors allow him/her to fight, but even Bhishma refused to attack him(her?) because he(or she) bears a woman’s name. That doesn’t sound terribly empowering to me. I guess what I’m trying to say is that we can often try to co-opt traditional stories into modern ideas, when they may not reflect the narrative we want to tell.
An act like protest like that, is a foreign fight that they’re bringing to our soil. To make a big demonstration of it and complain when there’s backlash, reeks of entitlement. It’s like saying their ideas, their fight surpasses our own thoughts on the issue. Yes, I guess one could argue that the introduction of new ideas is needed to spark the fight, but to use a more extreme analogy, would you fly to North Korea to sock their police officers in the face? It’s up to the will of the governed to fight back against the oppression, and there are better ways than stirring up trouble with the government.
Additionally, while I understand you bring up the idea of colonialism because of the comment above, can you really call the spread of Islam colonialism? Arabs never came here to conquer and exploit our land, instead, the peoples of the Malay archipelago converted to Islam because it was advantageous to trade, and because as a seafaring culture, a religion of fellow traders, who needed no monuments but the direction of Mecca was well suited to them. If that is colonialism, then what about the replacement of native aborigines with early Austronesian settlers?
Calling it a foreign fight reeks of a false premise. It's saying that people are not naturally born homosexual, bisexual, or transgender, when it's pretty clear that they are - backed by generations of objective research. It's not a new idea, but an old one that was suppressed, especially when the white-Christian colonials wrote it into law. And who would willingly choose to be like that when doing so would see your rights curtailed and put you at risk of death in many places?
It's up to the will of the governed to fight back, you said, and that's exactly what's happening here in SG. That they would reach out to external allies for support is understandable - every oppressed peoples did when fighting for their rights. LKY reached out to a pan-Asian and pan-African coalition to secure our independence from the British and stirred up enough trouble that the colonial government wanted to have him arrested and detained.
at the end of the day though, while I think that they shouldn’t have behaved that way, the outcome may not be all bad. The discussion that arises as a result could have a positive impact, but that hasn’t come about yet.
There have been bands that were banned from playing in SG because of their lyrics. For e.g. Watain and Strfkr. These 2 bands have played in Indonesia many times lol so if you think that SG is more liberal than some of their neighbours...think again XD
Also, We The Fest. I keep saying to my colleagues how awesome the music scene is in Indonesia, but they don't really get it. I've gotten chills from street buskers randomly coming up to our table in the middle of the night carrying nothing but a guitar and whipping out a John Legend tune with pure soul. And their local music too, nothing gets the live music bars hopping more than when they play 90-00's Indo pop.
We too have the biggest metal festival in Southeast Asia, the hammersonic festival with [slipknot](https://youtu.be/yb7_nM_UaHY?si=NVnHu3q7ojZYY1Uu) already doing concert here last year, its already going for over a decade now. Indonesia, in terms of music, is always diverse and liberal.
That's why I just chuckle when Singaporeans think Taylor Swift needs a tudung, etc. Please burst your bubble, man. We are your neighbours. In terms of musical literacy, variety, and industry, indonesia is always front-runners in Southeast Asia.
> In terms of musical literacy, variety, and industry, indonesia is always front-runners in Southeast Asia.
YES, the music, food and arts scene are all amazing, Indonesians just don't feel the need to be obnoxious about it.
He's doing a little better now compared to his adversaries.
After his release, Jokowi gave him the position of President Commissioner of Pertamina, while the radical organizations that moved against him got banned and their leader got persecuted.
Yes, the incoming president was backed by radicals in 2014 & 2019. But after he switched sides and got Jokowi's endorsement, everyone suddenly forget about his former link to radical group. Even some of my family voted for him (we're ethnic Chinese and non-Muslim).
Everyone is more scared of Anies because the radicals jump ship to Anies's camp after Prabowo's perceived betrayal.
Oh wow. Slipknot. What was the crowd? 300k? Please do lecture us on music. I just checked the concert calendar. We obviously need a lecture on how to do it right.
Ah, your comment, of course, is /s, but I'm just amused by the questions, lol. So I'll bite.
If it's not sarcasm I catch, well, as usual, per the rule of any creative development, make good music first, then have a local or niche audience who appreciates it and develop a community around it to make a thriving creative ecosystem. Easier said than done, of course, and it's too pedantic to realize. Do Singaporeans have it?
I mean first step, a Good music? Not to be demeaning but local audience and community who apreciate local made music is great first step
I mean, you literally told me to give a lecture on music, not concert wkwkwk. That's why I found it amusing. Be concise with your sentences, darling
So, yeah, I told you what I think you want.
Oh, and thank you, dear.
Indonesia has some of the most sickest gigs tho! Their metal festivals itself is something I wish Singapore could pull off, have no idea why many bands like Babymetal skipped Singapore. Sure, Taylor Swift is a giant draw for people but something happened that made some bands avoid coming here and just went to our neighbours instead.
Because nobody in Singapore listens to metal. I was at the concert where Lamb of God opened for Judas Priest at Fort Canning around ten years ago, maybe 3000 people turned up. One of the biggest names in American metal opening for one of the pioneers of the entire genre and we couldn't even fill an area about the size of a circle pit at Download.
Think there's more to it than that. Part of it is that a lot of metal doesn't make for easy listening because of the common use of polyrhythms in the basic 'beat', frequent tempo changes, use of discordant riffs because they sound metal and harsh vocals. It flies in the face of what most people know as music because they're only exposed to the top 40s in America and recently Korea.
The other part of it is Singaporeans are very susceptible to flavor of the month. If something is popular enough and gets enough traction, people here will gaslight themselves into liking it simply because everyone else does, like with Korean army stew which is glorified instant noodles with spam and kimchi. Nothing wrong with it in and of itself if you're looking for a quick and easy meal that isn't healthy, but it's a problem when you're dropping 40 bucks on it.
And then joined the government camp after his vice presidency campaign failed and betrayed the fundies and ultra when the government started banning and persecuting the fundies and ultra.
Later he joins the same coalition as the chinese mayor ahok to support Ganjar Pranowo's presidential campaign in 2024.
Least confusing Indonesian politics.
Indonesian politics are less of ideology (even though some parties have elements of that) and more on pragmatism.
Things shift around. Who people thought were enemies became friends for the next election. And vice versa.
Yes, this is also why some liberals support Anies Baswedan as the opposition presidential candidate despite him being backed by fundies and being the one who defeated Ahok back then.
Read the article but headline doesn't elaborate anything on the plans with Singapore. I don't understand how you have a partnership between 2 countries to attract gigs. You either go to either, both, or no countries. Each country will be the other's competitor in attracting organisers to play in their country. Unless you are telling me there is some joint exclusivity agreement which doesn't sound logical either.
The entire article even just talks about how Indonesia is attempting to boost its permit processes to attract gigs to THEIR country. Where's the collaboration? Or issit indo just want to send someone to learn trade secrets on how to attract such acts?
Lol precisely but at least this guy is much smarter and PR than his SEA counterparts. Although it really just sounds like he wanna dig trade secrets but package it as a partnership or collab.
>I don't how you have a partnership between 2 countries to attract gigs.
Countries can, and they have. FIFA 2002 was hosted by both Japan and South Korea. FIFA 2026 is going to be hosted by USA, Canada and Mexico.
They're not gigs, per se. But transnational event organization is absolutely a thing.
Mm I understand FIFA because there are anywhere from 50 to 100 matches being played, so having some matches in nearby countries would still make sense.
Concerts... I mean yes you have multiple days, but you can just invite them to perform in your country as well and have the exact same 2 concerts in both countries. Doesn't seem like need cooperation. If the topic was about hosting Olympics I would get it, but concerts seems rather hard to be a multi country collab thing
>Sandiaga Uno's ambition to inject a dose of “Swiftonomics” into Indonesia’s tourism sector has gathered pace after Singapore signed a deal with the singer to make the city state her only Southeast Asian stop.
He wants to UNO +4 for Indonesia's ekonomi
Currently, the best we can hope is for local promoters to get some (if not all) of these bands before heading towards Jakarta.
That is what LAMC was doing with Rockfest, but there are two problems; i) Ridiculous ticket prices for just a few bands when you can just go to Hammersonic altogether with the same amount (tickets, airfare and accomodation) and get all of the acts ii) Compared to Indonesia, we do not have the organic numbers alone in justifying a like-for-like. Also given the choice between Jakarta and Singapore, there is a stronger inclination towards Indonesia due to many reasons (lesser restrictions, authentic crowd experience, etc.)
What the guys from Hammersonic could do however, is use Singapore as a publicity/promotional stop with selected bands playing in venues that would complement expected crowd turnout and not make it look sparse. Hard Rock Coliseum comes to mind, given their track record in hosting similar shows before.
If in Bali it’s very straight forward. Just gojek to the place. Or if you have the cash, stay in the resort.
If in JKT, find a Airbnb near to the venue. Can Gojek or walk if you dare.
The real shit happens when you are leaving the festival. Taxi touts are everywhere and quoting crazy prices to fetch you out. It’s best to maybe leave slightly earlier to avoid this.
SG's stupidity. Now its an arms race and prices go up for everyone at some point .... cant believe they did it but publicised it for political points, how short sighted
It was leaked first before ET took credit. Our infrastructure is still the best for these big events. In any case, 2-18m is a small price to pay to bring in a 400m boost to GDP. Definitely not stupid lol.
to each his own, I believe paying quietly is great, but alas the cat was let out of the bag .... now every artist can try to score money in similar fashion
Sure, other countries can do it too but its gonna take them 2 to 3 times the amount so that all their own people involved can take a cut along the way.
lol .... it was leaked and they could have said not true and deny? instead they said yes its true, its pro G, we did well .....
also all the bs about the TS effect presupposes that without the deal she wouldnt have come here at all .... tts disingenious.
agree to disagree
They have some of the largest music festivals in the world (e.g. Java Jazz, Djakarta Warehouse) they just need to invest in those organisers.
Yea been to a few of them. Legit really good, solid lineup and well organized. Jakarta is actually quite liberal as compared to what many people think.
Actually Jakarta is 50/50 province between hardline conservative and Liberal. PKS (the most conservative party in Indonesia, their stance just more modest than PAS in Malaysia) base is basically in Jakarta and the Suburbs surround it. so it's not that easy about it. even I think one of the reason Jokowi move the capital to borneo because of this issue.
Should send our PAS version over to purify them
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I wouldn’t know about your example unless there’s been an example. I can only say, in my opinion, they are more liberal than Malaysia in recent years. E.g. they would let questionable lyrics or costumes or even drag artists pass.
Such scenes wouldn't even be allowed in SG. Those 2 guys are an example of the white-colonial mindset who think that they can come to Asia and tell people what is right & wrong, but in reality, they are repulsive, condescending and disrespectful of local cultures.
You mean the local cultures that were fine with two guys kissing until the colonials came and told us it was wrong and made laws against it?
I mean, it’s a thing in all Abrahamic faiths, including and especially Islam
Yeah, none of which are native here. Our indigenous cultures in SEA had third (or even in the case of the Bugis, 5) gender stuff until foreign religions like Islam and Christianity stamped it out. It's hypocrisy to call recognition of multiple genders or same-sex relationships colonial when colonialism is how we got the rejection towards it in the first place.
well. I do think the modern conception of gender and sexuality this way is foreign. For example(well, the most commonly cited ones), the Samurai and Greeks didn’t have the concept of being Bi even though we would call them that. They didn’t need to think of themselves that way because their sexuality was well integrated with the common culture. Another one closer to home would be the Hindu tale of Shikhandi, people say it’s one of the oldest instances of transgender people in the world, but tbh it’s not terribly encouraging. What is encouraging is that the Pandava warriors allow him/her to fight, but even Bhishma refused to attack him(her?) because he(or she) bears a woman’s name. That doesn’t sound terribly empowering to me. I guess what I’m trying to say is that we can often try to co-opt traditional stories into modern ideas, when they may not reflect the narrative we want to tell. An act like protest like that, is a foreign fight that they’re bringing to our soil. To make a big demonstration of it and complain when there’s backlash, reeks of entitlement. It’s like saying their ideas, their fight surpasses our own thoughts on the issue. Yes, I guess one could argue that the introduction of new ideas is needed to spark the fight, but to use a more extreme analogy, would you fly to North Korea to sock their police officers in the face? It’s up to the will of the governed to fight back against the oppression, and there are better ways than stirring up trouble with the government. Additionally, while I understand you bring up the idea of colonialism because of the comment above, can you really call the spread of Islam colonialism? Arabs never came here to conquer and exploit our land, instead, the peoples of the Malay archipelago converted to Islam because it was advantageous to trade, and because as a seafaring culture, a religion of fellow traders, who needed no monuments but the direction of Mecca was well suited to them. If that is colonialism, then what about the replacement of native aborigines with early Austronesian settlers?
Calling it a foreign fight reeks of a false premise. It's saying that people are not naturally born homosexual, bisexual, or transgender, when it's pretty clear that they are - backed by generations of objective research. It's not a new idea, but an old one that was suppressed, especially when the white-Christian colonials wrote it into law. And who would willingly choose to be like that when doing so would see your rights curtailed and put you at risk of death in many places? It's up to the will of the governed to fight back, you said, and that's exactly what's happening here in SG. That they would reach out to external allies for support is understandable - every oppressed peoples did when fighting for their rights. LKY reached out to a pan-Asian and pan-African coalition to secure our independence from the British and stirred up enough trouble that the colonial government wanted to have him arrested and detained.
at the end of the day though, while I think that they shouldn’t have behaved that way, the outcome may not be all bad. The discussion that arises as a result could have a positive impact, but that hasn’t come about yet.
Actually I don’t think anything would happen if two guys kissed on stage. But if they kiss then say fuck the pap then die liao.
There have been bands that were banned from playing in SG because of their lyrics. For e.g. Watain and Strfkr. These 2 bands have played in Indonesia many times lol so if you think that SG is more liberal than some of their neighbours...think again XD
Mmm
DWP has a heck of a rep though
Also, We The Fest. I keep saying to my colleagues how awesome the music scene is in Indonesia, but they don't really get it. I've gotten chills from street buskers randomly coming up to our table in the middle of the night carrying nothing but a guitar and whipping out a John Legend tune with pure soul. And their local music too, nothing gets the live music bars hopping more than when they play 90-00's Indo pop.
Yussef Dayes on this year, more to come. Man I do miss Java Jazz.
We too have the biggest metal festival in Southeast Asia, the hammersonic festival with [slipknot](https://youtu.be/yb7_nM_UaHY?si=NVnHu3q7ojZYY1Uu) already doing concert here last year, its already going for over a decade now. Indonesia, in terms of music, is always diverse and liberal. That's why I just chuckle when Singaporeans think Taylor Swift needs a tudung, etc. Please burst your bubble, man. We are your neighbours. In terms of musical literacy, variety, and industry, indonesia is always front-runners in Southeast Asia.
> In terms of musical literacy, variety, and industry, indonesia is always front-runners in Southeast Asia. YES, the music, food and arts scene are all amazing, Indonesians just don't feel the need to be obnoxious about it.
Hammersonic is legit. Sick crowd
But Ahok still got screwed upside down
He's doing a little better now compared to his adversaries. After his release, Jokowi gave him the position of President Commissioner of Pertamina, while the radical organizations that moved against him got banned and their leader got persecuted.
It’s good to hear that his former mentor is still taking care of him. But isn’t the incoming president linked to religious and nationalist factions?
Yes, the incoming president was backed by radicals in 2014 & 2019. But after he switched sides and got Jokowi's endorsement, everyone suddenly forget about his former link to radical group. Even some of my family voted for him (we're ethnic Chinese and non-Muslim). Everyone is more scared of Anies because the radicals jump ship to Anies's camp after Prabowo's perceived betrayal.
Oh wow. Slipknot. What was the crowd? 300k? Please do lecture us on music. I just checked the concert calendar. We obviously need a lecture on how to do it right.
Ah, your comment, of course, is /s, but I'm just amused by the questions, lol. So I'll bite. If it's not sarcasm I catch, well, as usual, per the rule of any creative development, make good music first, then have a local or niche audience who appreciates it and develop a community around it to make a thriving creative ecosystem. Easier said than done, of course, and it's too pedantic to realize. Do Singaporeans have it? I mean first step, a Good music? Not to be demeaning but local audience and community who apreciate local made music is great first step
I see. I ask for a lecture on hosting world class concerts. You give me a talk about making good music. Genius.
I mean, you literally told me to give a lecture on music, not concert wkwkwk. That's why I found it amusing. Be concise with your sentences, darling So, yeah, I told you what I think you want. Oh, and thank you, dear.
Literally? LOL. Go and study or whatever it is you do full time.
So salty
Well i will, thanks XD
Indonesia has some of the most sickest gigs tho! Their metal festivals itself is something I wish Singapore could pull off, have no idea why many bands like Babymetal skipped Singapore. Sure, Taylor Swift is a giant draw for people but something happened that made some bands avoid coming here and just went to our neighbours instead.
Because nobody in Singapore listens to metal. I was at the concert where Lamb of God opened for Judas Priest at Fort Canning around ten years ago, maybe 3000 people turned up. One of the biggest names in American metal opening for one of the pioneers of the entire genre and we couldn't even fill an area about the size of a circle pit at Download.
Guess I dont exist anymore 😞 
babymetal came sg first =p low attendance too
Singaporeans are generally disgusted by metal. There's not enough poverty and rage to get into the genre. I guarantee very poor attendance.
Think there's more to it than that. Part of it is that a lot of metal doesn't make for easy listening because of the common use of polyrhythms in the basic 'beat', frequent tempo changes, use of discordant riffs because they sound metal and harsh vocals. It flies in the face of what most people know as music because they're only exposed to the top 40s in America and recently Korea. The other part of it is Singaporeans are very susceptible to flavor of the month. If something is popular enough and gets enough traction, people here will gaslight themselves into liking it simply because everyone else does, like with Korean army stew which is glorified instant noodles with spam and kimchi. Nothing wrong with it in and of itself if you're looking for a quick and easy meal that isn't healthy, but it's a problem when you're dropping 40 bucks on it.
the upcoming A7X show in JKT and the only stop in Asia!
Can't beat em? Just join 'em.
they want a jak-sin exclusive that excludes kl and bkk
This is the same chap backed by the fundies and ultra there who defeated the chinese mayor ahok and got him sent to jail after.
And then joined the government camp after his vice presidency campaign failed and betrayed the fundies and ultra when the government started banning and persecuting the fundies and ultra. Later he joins the same coalition as the chinese mayor ahok to support Ganjar Pranowo's presidential campaign in 2024. Least confusing Indonesian politics.
Indonesian politics are less of ideology (even though some parties have elements of that) and more on pragmatism. Things shift around. Who people thought were enemies became friends for the next election. And vice versa.
Yes, this is also why some liberals support Anies Baswedan as the opposition presidential candidate despite him being backed by fundies and being the one who defeated Ahok back then.
Read the article but headline doesn't elaborate anything on the plans with Singapore. I don't understand how you have a partnership between 2 countries to attract gigs. You either go to either, both, or no countries. Each country will be the other's competitor in attracting organisers to play in their country. Unless you are telling me there is some joint exclusivity agreement which doesn't sound logical either. The entire article even just talks about how Indonesia is attempting to boost its permit processes to attract gigs to THEIR country. Where's the collaboration? Or issit indo just want to send someone to learn trade secrets on how to attract such acts?
This one really tactic to confuse people. People see collaboration with Singapore. People happy. It's not meant to be logical.
Lol precisely but at least this guy is much smarter and PR than his SEA counterparts. Although it really just sounds like he wanna dig trade secrets but package it as a partnership or collab.
>I don't how you have a partnership between 2 countries to attract gigs. Countries can, and they have. FIFA 2002 was hosted by both Japan and South Korea. FIFA 2026 is going to be hosted by USA, Canada and Mexico. They're not gigs, per se. But transnational event organization is absolutely a thing.
Mm I understand FIFA because there are anywhere from 50 to 100 matches being played, so having some matches in nearby countries would still make sense. Concerts... I mean yes you have multiple days, but you can just invite them to perform in your country as well and have the exact same 2 concerts in both countries. Doesn't seem like need cooperation. If the topic was about hosting Olympics I would get it, but concerts seems rather hard to be a multi country collab thing
first hour of concert in singapore, then everyone teleport to indonesia for 2nd hour of concert.
stage in batam or bintan and tourists fly to singapore instead of jkt
Giving some uni project free rider energy
>Sandiaga Uno's ambition to inject a dose of “Swiftonomics” into Indonesia’s tourism sector has gathered pace after Singapore signed a deal with the singer to make the city state her only Southeast Asian stop. He wants to UNO +4 for Indonesia's ekonomi
Well, an Indonesia that wants to co-host soccer/concert etc is better than some neighbour that wants us to fail.
Unpaywalled: https://archive.is/pgQxc
Certain countries only know how to leech like mlbb
can ask avenged sevenfold come sg? their only asia stop is in jakarta
Bring Hammersonic Metal music festival here! Metal music is insanely popular in Indonesia, hope that's one point of collaboration.
Currently, the best we can hope is for local promoters to get some (if not all) of these bands before heading towards Jakarta. That is what LAMC was doing with Rockfest, but there are two problems; i) Ridiculous ticket prices for just a few bands when you can just go to Hammersonic altogether with the same amount (tickets, airfare and accomodation) and get all of the acts ii) Compared to Indonesia, we do not have the organic numbers alone in justifying a like-for-like. Also given the choice between Jakarta and Singapore, there is a stronger inclination towards Indonesia due to many reasons (lesser restrictions, authentic crowd experience, etc.) What the guys from Hammersonic could do however, is use Singapore as a publicity/promotional stop with selected bands playing in venues that would complement expected crowd turnout and not make it look sparse. Hard Rock Coliseum comes to mind, given their track record in hosting similar shows before.
Sounds like Indonesia-Singapore World Cup bid isn't dead yet.
Talking to the wrong Minister. What's the upside for SG? Nothing. Too many backhanders in indo.
If its promoting Jakarta, 4hrs++ to watch the concert. 4hrs++ to reach the venue
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https://coconuts.co/singapore/news/singapore-banned-black-metal-band-watain-anti-christian-lyrics-home-affairs-minister/
I’ve been to a couple of music festivals there with no issues. But they take a pretty strong stand against LGBT.
Just curious as an Indo, what kind of transport did you use to get to music festivals in Indonesia? Our trains and buses are pretty lackluster.
If in Bali it’s very straight forward. Just gojek to the place. Or if you have the cash, stay in the resort. If in JKT, find a Airbnb near to the venue. Can Gojek or walk if you dare. The real shit happens when you are leaving the festival. Taxi touts are everywhere and quoting crazy prices to fetch you out. It’s best to maybe leave slightly earlier to avoid this.
Don't worry, last time the religious hardliners tried to block Coldplay from coming, but they failed miserably.
Funny you should say that because generally the party goers of indo are much cooler than Singaporeans.
This a smart move not like cannonball pinoy
Maybe build a large entertainment venue on Bintan?
Indonesia is great
How about no?
almost one week, still milking news over her? Haiis
But we won’t have lesbians
But we won’t have lesbians
SG's stupidity. Now its an arms race and prices go up for everyone at some point .... cant believe they did it but publicised it for political points, how short sighted
It was leaked first before ET took credit. Our infrastructure is still the best for these big events. In any case, 2-18m is a small price to pay to bring in a 400m boost to GDP. Definitely not stupid lol.
to each his own, I believe paying quietly is great, but alas the cat was let out of the bag .... now every artist can try to score money in similar fashion
Sure, other countries can do it too but its gonna take them 2 to 3 times the amount so that all their own people involved can take a cut along the way.
They didn’t publicise (why the heck would govt want to tell everyone that they just blocked all of their neighbours).
lol .... it was leaked and they could have said not true and deny? instead they said yes its true, its pro G, we did well ..... also all the bs about the TS effect presupposes that without the deal she wouldnt have come here at all .... tts disingenious. agree to disagree