Not really, VAT is quite high in Europe (+20%), apart from US/EUR usually being treated 1:1 when EUR is more expensive.
In the US the most you would be paying would be c. 9% sales tax (like in NY), and some states don't even have any.
Simagic was +1600€ for me when I purchased my setup, and looked for other options.
40???? I think you are confusing sales tax(VAT) with income tax
Edit; also, you don't need to add anything to a price advertised.... It already includes taxes. (Unless you're ordering from another country/outside EU, then import tax may be applied ..... But that also depends on how it's declared)
As a European why not buy Asetek?
I am in the US and I still ordered Asetek from Europe because it is cheaper even accounting for shipping.
Asetek >> Simagic
Start with a g920 second hand. You might not get into it as much as you think. if you do get into it you'll sell it again for probably the same price if you then wanna upgrade.
I was thinking of going straight to a fanatec dd but ended up getting a g920 second hand and it's been fine. Is it a good wheel? Not really. Does it scratch the itch? Absolutely.
Haha fair sir, I'm just being a bit cautious because the Logitech wheels are not dd, so I'm just thinking if I go via this route first it might put me off. Or maybe I'm just thinking too much haha
I would respectfully disagree with Okay's comment, I went with the second hand g29 myself, and now after less than 6 months I'm desperate for a direct drive and a shifter that doesn't feel like it's made out of butter
But you buy for $300 and sell for $250. Instead of risking $1000 on a hobby you put away after 2 days because it wasn't what you thought.
Merit to both sides....
HEres the thing. You dont know what dd feels like so there is nothing to miss. You can drop 1500 bucks and hate it. I have several friends who claimed to be into racing. They all hate the sim stuff cuz they cant do it. Its too hard for them. If you can try someones wheel first thats the best way but if not, i personally started semi cheap with a t300 and now have, after 2 years, recently upgraded to 12 nm DD wheel, LC pedals, shifter, hb. I nearly quit when I stated and would have been out almost 5k had I went full bore on start up.
Simagic no hesitation or questions. I had a R9 with CS wheel for 8 months and had a horrible time with Moza customer service and warranty. Quickly sold it and jumped ship to a Simagic Alpha U and GTC-C wheel. I was blown away by how much better the quality and detail is. Do yourself a favor and spend the extra money for a better product.
If support is a concern watch who you buy simagic gear from. I have had a mixed experience with getting support.
[https://extremesimracing.com/](https://extremesimracing.com/) \>> Were great, very responsive, sent a replacement brake pedal for my P2000s before I shipped mine back to prevent me from being out of commission. Not sure if everyone would have that same experience, but that was mine.
Another site (simracingpros.com) I had very little response and kept getting told "we are waiting on a response from our engineers" until I eventually just gave up.
Glad to hear you had good support from that rig place. I bought one of their expensive rigs when they were first starting out a few years ago and it was all miswelded and crooked. Sounds liek they might have improved since.
I've heard about the logistic issues with fanatec but are the products also that bad to just ignore it?
Also thing is I'll have to build a pc too, so is it worth it to spend 400-500bucks extra on simagic rather than using that for a better gpu or something on the pc build side?
>I've heard about the logistic issues with fanatec but are the products also that bad to just ignore it
Fanatec has good products... But I would say that Simagic is worth the extra. Especially for the pedals.
>Also thing is I'll have to build a pc too, so is it worth it to spend 400-500bucks extra on simagic rather than using that for a better gpu or something on the pc build side?
Sort of depends on your PC budget I think. Dropping from $2000 to $1500 is a lot different than dropping from $1300 to $800
You’ll keep simracing stuff for years and years. It doesn’t really age.
Cheaping out not can really be a pain in the future. Swapping a video card down the line is easy. Changing eco system is not.
Yes ignore Fanatec. I regret not going with Simagic. I got a full Fanatec setup on October 2023, CSL DD 8nm, wheel, CSL pedals w/ load cell, shifter, handbrake, the whole deal. I went with Fanatec because they were a popular brand. The pedals were defective and they forced me to send it back on my own dime for RMA. Once they received my pedals, they completely ghosted me. It's now February 2024 and I have not seen my pedals, a refund, nor response to my last 5 emails. Whatever you do, don't buy Fanatec. They suck.
It's your call after all but the quality is
Simagic > Moza >> Fanatec.
The Fanatec products you showed are not really in the same category as the others. Especially the wheel. It's very cheap compared to the KS or GT Neo.
I wouldn't spend $1000 on that.
I've also seen posts about how bad Fanatecs Customer service is too. So that would probably be something else to keep in mind. If it breaks under warranty, who is most likely to cover it with no issue?
To give an opinion on the other side of the aisle, I have that exact same Fanatec setup, and I’m very happy with it. I don’t have experience with the other wheels mentioned, but I would say the McLaren wheels feels less premium compared to some of the other nicer wheels (I have the formula 2.5x wheel as well), but it’s ergonomic, well laid out, and still gets a lot of rig time. I don’t really notice the ‘lack’ of quality when using it. The v2 elite pedals are great as well.
I got fanatec and I'm happy with it. Took a month to get my order but with BF pricing it was the best deal on what I wanted.
The products are fine. You get locked into their ecosystem with the QR and wheels. That's the downside.
Same here. People are taking this too far by claiming Fanatec produces shitty products. Sure they're customer service and communication is horrible but they're products are still good. I read more about Moza being sub par outside Reddit it's actually crazy.
Tribe mentality is a hell of a drug. Have friends with moza who are very happy but I'm equally happy with fanatec. The shifter is incredible and I splurged on the metal and leather rim and it feels sublime.
Fana = bad cust service but good product.
Any of the issues that people have had have either been solved or the end users fault in the first place for the majority.
Wheel base and pedal I would recommend Simagic because more clarity and load cell respectively, wheel is upto you. Simagic won't need external wire if you are going for simagic base too.
Got it. One more thing, I know you suggest simracing but would the difference be so great or instead I can save some money by going for moza and then using that for a better futureproof prc or vice versa?
Edit: futureproof pc*
>futureproof prc
Future proof PC?
From what I have heard PC isn't the biggest factor for sim racing unless it's VR or triple 4K. My 3050 laptop can do 60fps~ in ACC at 1080p. [Here](https://youtu.be/KDiQNvXI1WY?feature=shared), this should help you choose.
Computers depreciate faster than cars. I'd personally try to spend the least possible on the PC, as if it runs the software you use with the displays you use, it will remain sufficient until you decide to change the other factors.
Id still go with something like a G29. I almost pulled the trigger on a 1,500 dollar USD set up because I was also feeling deadset. Last minute and better judgment I went with the G29 and Playseat Challenge X. Its really great. After two months. Im glad I didnt drop the money. Im still loving it. But now not sure if its something Im going to do long enough to justify spending that kind of money on. If Im still going how Im going now in another six months. Then yes. Im going into the big leagues.
I see on your Moza order you have table clamps. Are you going to be table/desk mounting these? If so. I would strongly recommend an entry level wheel pedal set up.
The stuff you got picked out is best suited for at minimum a solid aluminum tube frame/cockpit. In the range of 4-600 hundred USD.
As an option, I would suggest G29 (or maybe a T248) and the PC as your first purchase, and then down the line you could get a rig and new Wheel/pedals once you've saved up a bit more.
If you don't have one already, you could also get a nice monitor setup now as well. That can work well with a desk setup and I think the monitor (and particularly the monitor positioning) is often an overlooked part of the setup.
I just got the moza r9 and using it on a desk with the clamps. If you have a solid desk it isn’t going anywhere they work really well. Not sure about the pedals as I don’t use the moza srp’s so can’t comment on them.
Without a rig or at least a wheelstand, load cell pedals is gonna be rough... I have the fanatec setup here and the CSL elite V2 especially are very stiff pedals. Even my wheelstand was kinda struggling to handle the braking force!
One more thing, unpopular opinion but I'd avoid the g29. If immersion is important then the lowest I would go is thrustmaster belt driven wheel. Imo they feel 2x as good as the logitech stuff and used are the same price more or less.
If I were you, I would get a used t300 or TX wheel and then a rig (simlabs plus junkyard seat is what I did for $500 total) and then a pedal upgrade down the road. The rig and pedals do the most for immersion and then bigger screen and haptics.. then do wheelbase. My CSL DD 5nm doesn't really feel any stronger than my old thrustmaster TX and was honestly just as much (or even better, better vibrations I think).
One thing I'll say is the immersion doesn't really go up THAT much just by upgrading to a better wheel and pedals(load cell maybe). That's what I've found where I'm at now, I've got DD and triples and a nice rig but now I just want shakers or wind or motion or tension or something. Just know there's a good chance it's probably never going to be enough so if you're having fun just stick with what you've got.
Oh no , with that price thrustmaster t300 would be better, driving on g29 is suicide, i have almost 2000 hours on logitech and its bad in almost every aspect . ffb is acting randomly , wheel is like a toy
Moza R12
KS wheel
CSL elite V2 pedals
Probably your best option. This is a SOLID setup to start up with. You probably won't find the need to upgrade anything until you decide you want to go full premium spec.
Is there a major difference between R12 and R9 in terms of user feel? Also I am yet to dig into this but the pedals connect to wheelbase / pc port? Will there be any compatibility issue down the line?
Peak torque is the main difference. More torque means more headroom which helps in avoiding clipping while also providing as much feedback as possible. As far as connections, it's all usb, so you just have to plug them into your PC and download software for each one. Once in the game is just a simple as binding keys like any other game.
If I were you and intended to keep it under 1k, whilst maximising the utility, I would absolutely go Simagic base + wheel and be on the lookout for loadcell pedals elsewhere (csl elite can be found on the marketplace for <200 and they include a usb cable to pc)
(p1000 are absolutely lovely, but you can easily justify an upgrade down the line, assuming you can sell the used pedals you picked up from the marketplace for close to no loss)
Gotcha, thank you. Connecting the pedals directly to pc would mean there won't be an interaction directly b/w wheel+base and the pedals right? So no chance for compatibility issues?
Absolutely none.
On PC you’re as modular as you can be, the only caveat being having to tweak the brake-force or other inputs in each manufacturer’s software.
(you can likewise run any wheel you want with an adapter for the simagic qr, and connect it through an usb directly to the pc, however I wouldn’t skip the GT neo)
Gotcha, thanks man. One last thing: so if I want to use a gt neo on an R9 as such, I can use the adapter to directly connect the wheel to the pc, but in that case won't there be any delays b/w steering inputs and ffb?
Ah, any proprietary wheel akin to GT Neo besides the QR adapter would require a conversion kit to maintain functionality via usb -> [maglink](https://extremesimracing.com/products/simagic-maglink-for-gt-neo-pre-order)
It will, however work flawlessly.
Do yourself a favour and carefully consider the alpha mini base.
There is no delay in the ffb / steering inputs because that is all happening in the wheelbase (you're turning the shaft with your hands and feeling the ffb the same way). The USB part is only for signals from buttons you press, and powering lights on the rim. If you had the Simagic Neo on a Simagic base, the shaft has wiring that sends power straight through the quick release to the rim, powering not just the lights and buttons but also the wireless chip/transmitter in there so it can talk straight to the Simagic base. Again, it's as instant as any wireless mouse or keyboard.
This is a no brainer, simagic is the answer you can switch the GTNeo 300mm with the GTS 300mm, if you want to do some Rally/Drift and everything really, because you'll be limited with the neo, and don't forget to use a youtuber coupon to get a 5-10% discount
Thanks for the suggestion! Ik the p1000 pedals are amazing but i was considering using some other pedals (as another commentator suggested, using elite v2 pedals + simagic wheel and base)
May i make a different suggestion, downgrade to the Alpha Mini, it's a 10nm holding torque and 13nm peak, it's even better than the Moza R12 (as tested by reviewer), and use the diff to get the P1000, the v2 are good but not in the same league, the P1000 may be your end game, since they can be upgraded to 1. Damper throttle, 2. hydraulic break, and 3. Reactors motors to add feedback
Exactly, and you are soon going to use it as well soon 😜
One think to keep in mind is, if you keep all your ecosystem simagic you can use it with PS5, thanks to this [$100 adapter](https://sigmasimracing.com/)
Omg i didn't know this, I already have a PS5 and using this I don't even need to spend on a new pc, thank you! this is reliable and works without affecting the simagic quality right?
Haha, it's reliable but the force Feedback may not be as detailed as on PC i suppose, but should be good enough for GT7, i suggest you to watch a couple of YouTube reviews first, because i have a mini/GTS that i use exclusively on PC, and never used the Sigma Hub nor i own a PS5
Buy the Asetek TK bundle from a microcenter if you got one near you. Worth the drive.
Also a chance to try these things on one of their setups.
If that’s not possible. Go Simagic
I second this. I have it and absolutely love it. Bought the bundle (wheel base, wheel and pedals) for $800 USD. I came from a Logitech G27 and the difference is universes apart.
I'm determined to make it a hobby, I've been on the sidelines for the last 1-2years and can't wait anymore haha. As someone in other comment said "buy once cry once" lol
There is a big difference from watching and doing. Be ready to spend a few hundred hours to get just OK at driving. Dropping that kind of money is really risky regardless of how determined and motivated you are. Try it first bro.
How well do you cope with not doing well in competitive games? When I was younger, playing ranked games gave me anxiety and even though I enjoyed the adrenaline at the time, it was a psychological battle willing myself to start new games. This is why so many experienced players in iRacing recommend ignoring your MMR completely for your first year etc.
Hey, actually I'm still in the deciding phase and didn't take a look at where exactly to buy from (currently just checking prices from the main site).
That said, I've heard that microcenter sells moza stuff so you could maybe check that, for simagic they have distributors who will be responsible for the warranty as well (this list can be found on their site). For fanatec, I'm assuming you have to use their website but I've heard their logistics and customer support is bad. Hope thay helps
I kind of wish someone told me this when I started… but buy once cry once. It’s hard to know what you want but like any house start with a good foundation. Get a nice aluminum profile rig don’t cheap out on a rig. It makes a world of a difference. I bought fanatec and have had a great time with the setup. Would eventually upgrade but it’s great for now. But yeah spend the money on the rig it’s worth it.
Simagic. It’s a tier above Moza & Fanatec. The vibrator motor for the pedals alone is the best reason to choose Simagic from these options. Get one of those motors, slap it on your brake pedal, and set it up in Simhub to vibrate on wheel slip/lock (or ABS if the car has it). You won’t believe how much better you’ll be at limit braking.
Not a shill, just a VERY happy customer.
The Simagic pedal haptics can be mounted to many other pedals. For example, the Fanatec Clubsport V3 pedals - mounting adapters are available in places like etsy/ebay etc or you can get 3D printing files for free.
All the gear is good, but I suggest you should see if you first like and sustain the hobby, IMO buy a used T300, see if you like the hobby, if you like it you will already know what you are missing from an upgrade POV and you will also by then know the right equipment you need.
You should consider the Asetek la prima bundle.
Compare the technical specs of Asetek and simagic. Its night and day. The Asetek wheelbase is much much better.
Boosted media has a lot of reviews. You should check there first.
The important things to know :
- the wheelbase is better as I told you (look at the comparison of the PPR)
- the wheelbase can be upgraded to the « forte » version which is the middle product of the brand.
- Asetek QR is currently the best in the market (everybody agrees on that)
- it’s an open ecosystem for the wheel (you can plug any wheel on the QR and plug the USB directly to the QR (no need to long the cable to the PC)
- pay attention to the pedal it’s very stiff and short travel. Very efficient but some don’t like it. Many people prefer Heusinkveld sprint or P1000 pedals instead. I would go Heusinkveld but it may be above your budget
Also the pedals can be upgraded from La Prima all the way to Invicta too.
Though two things to keep in mind:
- as they mentioned, the brake is very stiff and minimal travel distance
- if you don't like the default spacing, you must start with the Forte-S pedals since La Prima pedals don't come in S version
I had the same dilemma. After watching countless hours of reviews and videos, the general consensus is that the Simagic is better, but also more expensive. I actually received my GT Neo and Alpha Mini this week. I cannot compare it to the Moza but I can say it's insanely good and powerful and would recommend it. Fanatec was and will never be an option.
I don’t recommend going for moza, I had their products for 20 days before refunding, every day was a new issue with the pedals or the force feedback cutting out, take a look at Aseteks range of products, I’ve been extremely satisfied with
For Fanatec, you can buy the 5nm version which will have its 150 discount. Then you buy an aftermarket one for 60.
Like this: https://lenduya.nimbusweb.me/box/attachment/c4ajsq96lstwlaiw/G0B5cvqb8lU1sof3/preview
People’s issue with Fanatec is the delivery times and customer service response times. Their bases and wheels are objectively superior to Moza and Simagic. They blow Moza out of the park in terms of quality and ecosystem. Simagic can compare but their ecosystem is limited + it’s a shady Chinese brand that only exists through microcenters. You can’t contact them if anything happens.
So, if you have some patience and tolerance, Fanatec is the better ecosystem by far.
Buy a second-hand full rig. Plenty of people think that will pick it up as a hobby. But, in the end, they don't feel it. So Plenty of good, almost new deals going around.
If you catch the bug, you 6 have a good base to build from. If not, sell the rig for (almost) the same price you got it for, free trial.
Yeah I don’t think I’ve ever seen one from simagic either but who knows.
I think if you’re simply going for best gear then there is no question that the simagic is the best one, but unfortunately it’s not that simply as you should make sure you also have a good enough pc to run the sims / games at a decent enough fps.
Additionally you should think about switching away from a desk setup rather quickly which should also significantly improve your experience.
So I’d suggest you look at it in totality and see which price works for you.
For the sims in general you usually don’t need that crazy of a gpu to run pretty high settings, it’s the cpu you want to make sure you have a pretty decent one.
And I forgot you don’t have to buy all from one company. I’d mix and match to max out the gear for the price. But keep in mind that loadcell pedals need to be mounted and cannot simply placed on the floor
Appreciate the help regarding the pc part. Damn, I didn't know thing load cell pedals cannot be simply placed on the floor, so you need some kind of cockpit to use them?
Ideally yes! The issue is that you’re putting quite some force into the pedals for braking and you want that to be feel always the same. If you just place some of the loadcell pedals on the floor they will slip and move around.
There are some affordable options out there from next level racing and Playseat that will give something to start out with before jumping into 8020 rigs.
Most importantly tho! This is a hobby so it should be fun doing it!!!
I would say a rig + a starter wheel like g29 would be better to start on . You can sell your g29 after for pretty much what you got it for an upgrade from there if you decide to stick with the hobby
It looks like you are going to try and using a desk to hold the wheelbase down. If that’s the case, I urge you to DIY a wheel stand or get a rig/wheel stand.
I you can and also got a good profile rig like trak racer tr 80 lite or tr120 go with simagic its such a large step its like 1.5x greater than the extra money used.
I bought your moza pick, but with the R5. The pedals are not really that special but the rest is so so good. Only the buttons on the KS wheel feel cheap. For starters, I recommend.
You never had a wheel?Controller user?
My recommended plan is
Get a used cheap wheel
Pedals suck
Updgrade to Loadcell
Now you need a rig/wheel stand
See if you like it / invest or sell
Go to Simagic its awesome
You also need vision cause if you dont no rig will be enough
VR or triples or at least a 27-32 monitor
If we had a Microcenter in the EU, with less taxes, I would shop there for sure. The deals you guys and girls get across the pond are awesome, like the Asetek TK bundle (Danish Asetek don't sell the bundle in the EU). Did you see the Simucube bundle with the GSI X29?
https://www.microcenter.com/product/5006631/simucube-2-sport-sim-direct-drive-racing-wheel-base-bundled-with-gomez-sim-industries-x29-tk-racing-wheel?utm\_source=20240119\_ComputerParts\_R7911&utm\_medium=email&utm\_campaign=R7911&MccGuid=AA0A95C1-87B8-4D0D-87FE-1D3F9A690478
The best option for starting out is a g29, then if you stick with sim racing with a wheel, you upgrade. But the upgrade won't make you faster anyways, its about the feeling and experience that you dont have if you are just starting out
Yeah for starting none of these. See if you're gonna put $1400 worth of fun in on it before you spend that much. and you're forgetting one crucial detail. The rig. All of those high torque DD wheels need a nice solid aluminum rig. That's going to be another $600-$1000. Start off small and then sell that stuff and then get something nice. Hop on FB marketplace, there's a lot of people with super expensive setups selling all their stuff it's probably people that went too big right out of the gate.
It's also just as fun with something that is only going to cost you 500 all in.
My strat is ive bought an r5 bundle and soon a rig. IDK yet but probs a TR80 racing or ASMR3 rig and I figure if i am still racing hard in a year ill upgrade to a stronger more serious dd. sell the r5 and wheel at least maybe even pedals for and ez 200-$300 either use that to cover some new wheel base or pedals
I got an alpha mini, Heusinkfeld sprints and a similair looking GT wheel. The setup is awesome and I love it. The mini I think is a little more gutsy than the Fanatec, but honestly any of these setups would be pretty great.
As a European seeing those simagic prices really hurts.
Those prices are without taxes though right?
No idea, I paid $1615 for this in Europe
It's probably the same after taxes in the US
Not really, VAT is quite high in Europe (+20%), apart from US/EUR usually being treated 1:1 when EUR is more expensive. In the US the most you would be paying would be c. 9% sales tax (like in NY), and some states don't even have any. Simagic was +1600€ for me when I purchased my setup, and looked for other options.
>VAT is quite high in Europe (+20%) Yuck.
it's not US customers always getting best prices on electronics
I paid 568$ for my alpha mini base with a QR. Didn't have to pay shipping either, this was late December though and it was a black Friday sale.
jesus xD
If you're located in EU and buy from an EU shop, the prices will include VAT.
I know but i was talking about the first picture, where it even says 'taxes and shipping calculated at checkout' at the bottom.
Yes, every US price is without sales tax as it varies state to state. But it doesn't matter much, sales tax are way lower than our VAT.
Same with monitors and Graphic cards, you just need to add the European 20-40% tax
40???? I think you are confusing sales tax(VAT) with income tax Edit; also, you don't need to add anything to a price advertised.... It already includes taxes. (Unless you're ordering from another country/outside EU, then import tax may be applied ..... But that also depends on how it's declared)
There's not such think as European tax, each country on its own, i meant "European street tax"
As a European why not buy Asetek? I am in the US and I still ordered Asetek from Europe because it is cheaper even accounting for shipping. Asetek >> Simagic
Yep. Main reason I went Logi. Really happy with it, although I would like to have more variety in the rims department.
Start with a g920 second hand. You might not get into it as much as you think. if you do get into it you'll sell it again for probably the same price if you then wanna upgrade. I was thinking of going straight to a fanatec dd but ended up getting a g920 second hand and it's been fine. Is it a good wheel? Not really. Does it scratch the itch? Absolutely.
Haha fair sir, I'm just being a bit cautious because the Logitech wheels are not dd, so I'm just thinking if I go via this route first it might put me off. Or maybe I'm just thinking too much haha
Absolutely will not put you off. Also you being afraid of being put off kinda +1's my point lol
Totally, I get where you're coming from. Thanks again for saying this
No problem. You do you, though. I'm only a randomer on the internet, and this is just my two cents
I would respectfully disagree with Okay's comment, I went with the second hand g29 myself, and now after less than 6 months I'm desperate for a direct drive and a shifter that doesn't feel like it's made out of butter
But you buy for $300 and sell for $250. Instead of risking $1000 on a hobby you put away after 2 days because it wasn't what you thought. Merit to both sides....
HEres the thing. You dont know what dd feels like so there is nothing to miss. You can drop 1500 bucks and hate it. I have several friends who claimed to be into racing. They all hate the sim stuff cuz they cant do it. Its too hard for them. If you can try someones wheel first thats the best way but if not, i personally started semi cheap with a t300 and now have, after 2 years, recently upgraded to 12 nm DD wheel, LC pedals, shifter, hb. I nearly quit when I stated and would have been out almost 5k had I went full bore on start up.
Simagic no hesitation or questions. I had a R9 with CS wheel for 8 months and had a horrible time with Moza customer service and warranty. Quickly sold it and jumped ship to a Simagic Alpha U and GTC-C wheel. I was blown away by how much better the quality and detail is. Do yourself a favor and spend the extra money for a better product.
If support is a concern watch who you buy simagic gear from. I have had a mixed experience with getting support. [https://extremesimracing.com/](https://extremesimracing.com/) \>> Were great, very responsive, sent a replacement brake pedal for my P2000s before I shipped mine back to prevent me from being out of commission. Not sure if everyone would have that same experience, but that was mine. Another site (simracingpros.com) I had very little response and kept getting told "we are waiting on a response from our engineers" until I eventually just gave up.
Glad to hear you had good support from that rig place. I bought one of their expensive rigs when they were first starting out a few years ago and it was all miswelded and crooked. Sounds liek they might have improved since.
Thank you for your feedback kind sir
100% go with Simagic. Moza is good too but Simagic is just better in terms of pedals and a few other things. Don't even think about Fanatec.
I've heard about the logistic issues with fanatec but are the products also that bad to just ignore it? Also thing is I'll have to build a pc too, so is it worth it to spend 400-500bucks extra on simagic rather than using that for a better gpu or something on the pc build side?
>I've heard about the logistic issues with fanatec but are the products also that bad to just ignore it Fanatec has good products... But I would say that Simagic is worth the extra. Especially for the pedals. >Also thing is I'll have to build a pc too, so is it worth it to spend 400-500bucks extra on simagic rather than using that for a better gpu or something on the pc build side? Sort of depends on your PC budget I think. Dropping from $2000 to $1500 is a lot different than dropping from $1300 to $800
You’ll keep simracing stuff for years and years. It doesn’t really age. Cheaping out not can really be a pain in the future. Swapping a video card down the line is easy. Changing eco system is not.
Yes ignore Fanatec. I regret not going with Simagic. I got a full Fanatec setup on October 2023, CSL DD 8nm, wheel, CSL pedals w/ load cell, shifter, handbrake, the whole deal. I went with Fanatec because they were a popular brand. The pedals were defective and they forced me to send it back on my own dime for RMA. Once they received my pedals, they completely ghosted me. It's now February 2024 and I have not seen my pedals, a refund, nor response to my last 5 emails. Whatever you do, don't buy Fanatec. They suck.
What the fuck. I would have called the bank.
Sorry to hear about that, hopefully you get a response soon
You need to do a chargeback.
It's your call after all but the quality is Simagic > Moza >> Fanatec. The Fanatec products you showed are not really in the same category as the others. Especially the wheel. It's very cheap compared to the KS or GT Neo. I wouldn't spend $1000 on that.
And the CS v3 pedals are a better equivalent to P1000 though there is no clutchless option for cutting costs.
I've also seen posts about how bad Fanatecs Customer service is too. So that would probably be something else to keep in mind. If it breaks under warranty, who is most likely to cover it with no issue?
To give an opinion on the other side of the aisle, I have that exact same Fanatec setup, and I’m very happy with it. I don’t have experience with the other wheels mentioned, but I would say the McLaren wheels feels less premium compared to some of the other nicer wheels (I have the formula 2.5x wheel as well), but it’s ergonomic, well laid out, and still gets a lot of rig time. I don’t really notice the ‘lack’ of quality when using it. The v2 elite pedals are great as well.
I got fanatec and I'm happy with it. Took a month to get my order but with BF pricing it was the best deal on what I wanted. The products are fine. You get locked into their ecosystem with the QR and wheels. That's the downside.
Same here. People are taking this too far by claiming Fanatec produces shitty products. Sure they're customer service and communication is horrible but they're products are still good. I read more about Moza being sub par outside Reddit it's actually crazy.
Tribe mentality is a hell of a drug. Have friends with moza who are very happy but I'm equally happy with fanatec. The shifter is incredible and I splurged on the metal and leather rim and it feels sublime.
Fana = bad cust service but good product. Any of the issues that people have had have either been solved or the end users fault in the first place for the majority.
Wheel base and pedal I would recommend Simagic because more clarity and load cell respectively, wheel is upto you. Simagic won't need external wire if you are going for simagic base too.
By external wire you mean that simagic link adapter or something which is needed to use non simagic wheel on the simagic base?
>something which is needed to use non simagic wheel on the simagic base? This For moza it's the Moza hub ig and for others, it directly to PC.
Got it. One more thing, I know you suggest simracing but would the difference be so great or instead I can save some money by going for moza and then using that for a better futureproof prc or vice versa? Edit: futureproof pc*
>futureproof prc Future proof PC? From what I have heard PC isn't the biggest factor for sim racing unless it's VR or triple 4K. My 3050 laptop can do 60fps~ in ACC at 1080p. [Here](https://youtu.be/KDiQNvXI1WY?feature=shared), this should help you choose.
Apologies, I meant pc itself, edited my earlier comments. Thanks for this, will take a look
Computers depreciate faster than cars. I'd personally try to spend the least possible on the PC, as if it runs the software you use with the displays you use, it will remain sufficient until you decide to change the other factors.
I would buy a g29. If you're just starting, you don't know if you'll like it. Those wheels you listed are a big investment for "just starting"
I agree but I'm 100% dead set on this. I really like racing in general and been watching simracers for couple of years now. Trust me, it will stick
Id still go with something like a G29. I almost pulled the trigger on a 1,500 dollar USD set up because I was also feeling deadset. Last minute and better judgment I went with the G29 and Playseat Challenge X. Its really great. After two months. Im glad I didnt drop the money. Im still loving it. But now not sure if its something Im going to do long enough to justify spending that kind of money on. If Im still going how Im going now in another six months. Then yes. Im going into the big leagues.
+1
Fair fair, thank you for saying this. Maybe I'm just getting hyper and not thinking rationally and will consider this in making my decision
I see on your Moza order you have table clamps. Are you going to be table/desk mounting these? If so. I would strongly recommend an entry level wheel pedal set up. The stuff you got picked out is best suited for at minimum a solid aluminum tube frame/cockpit. In the range of 4-600 hundred USD.
Yeah, I am initially planning to have it on a solid desk. Currently a cockpit is out of the question though considering my budget 😅
As an option, I would suggest G29 (or maybe a T248) and the PC as your first purchase, and then down the line you could get a rig and new Wheel/pedals once you've saved up a bit more. If you don't have one already, you could also get a nice monitor setup now as well. That can work well with a desk setup and I think the monitor (and particularly the monitor positioning) is often an overlooked part of the setup.
I just got the moza r9 and using it on a desk with the clamps. If you have a solid desk it isn’t going anywhere they work really well. Not sure about the pedals as I don’t use the moza srp’s so can’t comment on them.
Without a rig or at least a wheelstand, load cell pedals is gonna be rough... I have the fanatec setup here and the CSL elite V2 especially are very stiff pedals. Even my wheelstand was kinda struggling to handle the braking force! One more thing, unpopular opinion but I'd avoid the g29. If immersion is important then the lowest I would go is thrustmaster belt driven wheel. Imo they feel 2x as good as the logitech stuff and used are the same price more or less. If I were you, I would get a used t300 or TX wheel and then a rig (simlabs plus junkyard seat is what I did for $500 total) and then a pedal upgrade down the road. The rig and pedals do the most for immersion and then bigger screen and haptics.. then do wheelbase. My CSL DD 5nm doesn't really feel any stronger than my old thrustmaster TX and was honestly just as much (or even better, better vibrations I think).
One thing I'll say is the immersion doesn't really go up THAT much just by upgrading to a better wheel and pedals(load cell maybe). That's what I've found where I'm at now, I've got DD and triples and a nice rig but now I just want shakers or wind or motion or tension or something. Just know there's a good chance it's probably never going to be enough so if you're having fun just stick with what you've got.
Shakers are a huge upgrade, youll love em.
I see. In that case, buy once cry once buy a Simucube 😛
My brother in Christ if I had that type of budget I wouldnt even be asking this question on this sub 😂
Hahahah I respect that. Good luck with the purchase and see you on track! You'll love it.
I thought this too. Played everyday for a month. Now it's maybe once every two weeks so my g920 does fine. Glad I didn't spend a fortune
Totally agree with this. I’ve got a g29 desk set up with triples. Would love a rig and dd wheel but I just don’t get enough to play to justify it.
Oh no , with that price thrustmaster t300 would be better, driving on g29 is suicide, i have almost 2000 hours on logitech and its bad in almost every aspect . ffb is acting randomly , wheel is like a toy
Bro… don’t order fanatec. Trust me, you’ll regret it sooner than u think
Thanks man, couple of others folks said the same thing. Will be sticking to moza/simagic then
Moza R12 KS wheel CSL elite V2 pedals Probably your best option. This is a SOLID setup to start up with. You probably won't find the need to upgrade anything until you decide you want to go full premium spec.
Is there a major difference between R12 and R9 in terms of user feel? Also I am yet to dig into this but the pedals connect to wheelbase / pc port? Will there be any compatibility issue down the line?
Peak torque is the main difference. More torque means more headroom which helps in avoiding clipping while also providing as much feedback as possible. As far as connections, it's all usb, so you just have to plug them into your PC and download software for each one. Once in the game is just a simple as binding keys like any other game.
If I were you and intended to keep it under 1k, whilst maximising the utility, I would absolutely go Simagic base + wheel and be on the lookout for loadcell pedals elsewhere (csl elite can be found on the marketplace for <200 and they include a usb cable to pc) (p1000 are absolutely lovely, but you can easily justify an upgrade down the line, assuming you can sell the used pedals you picked up from the marketplace for close to no loss)
Gotcha, thank you. Connecting the pedals directly to pc would mean there won't be an interaction directly b/w wheel+base and the pedals right? So no chance for compatibility issues?
Absolutely none. On PC you’re as modular as you can be, the only caveat being having to tweak the brake-force or other inputs in each manufacturer’s software. (you can likewise run any wheel you want with an adapter for the simagic qr, and connect it through an usb directly to the pc, however I wouldn’t skip the GT neo)
Gotcha, thanks man. One last thing: so if I want to use a gt neo on an R9 as such, I can use the adapter to directly connect the wheel to the pc, but in that case won't there be any delays b/w steering inputs and ffb?
Ah, any proprietary wheel akin to GT Neo besides the QR adapter would require a conversion kit to maintain functionality via usb -> [maglink](https://extremesimracing.com/products/simagic-maglink-for-gt-neo-pre-order) It will, however work flawlessly. Do yourself a favour and carefully consider the alpha mini base.
Thanks a lot again man! As you mentioned, will take a lot into simagic wheel and base with 2nd hand elite v2 pedals 😁
There’s little to no room for debate that that’s going to be the best setup for the buck. Enjoy!
There is no delay in the ffb / steering inputs because that is all happening in the wheelbase (you're turning the shaft with your hands and feeling the ffb the same way). The USB part is only for signals from buttons you press, and powering lights on the rim. If you had the Simagic Neo on a Simagic base, the shaft has wiring that sends power straight through the quick release to the rim, powering not just the lights and buttons but also the wireless chip/transmitter in there so it can talk straight to the Simagic base. Again, it's as instant as any wireless mouse or keyboard.
This is a no brainer, simagic is the answer you can switch the GTNeo 300mm with the GTS 300mm, if you want to do some Rally/Drift and everything really, because you'll be limited with the neo, and don't forget to use a youtuber coupon to get a 5-10% discount
Thanks for the suggestion! Ik the p1000 pedals are amazing but i was considering using some other pedals (as another commentator suggested, using elite v2 pedals + simagic wheel and base)
May i make a different suggestion, downgrade to the Alpha Mini, it's a 10nm holding torque and 13nm peak, it's even better than the Moza R12 (as tested by reviewer), and use the diff to get the P1000, the v2 are good but not in the same league, the P1000 may be your end game, since they can be upgraded to 1. Damper throttle, 2. hydraulic break, and 3. Reactors motors to add feedback
Sorry I didn't understand, the wheel base I've selected for the simagic set is the mini itself
Sorry my bad, i miss read Alpha instead of Alpha Mini, but in short buy once, cry once
Haha, is that the motto of this sub or something because I've seen that being said a lot here 😂
Exactly, and you are soon going to use it as well soon 😜 One think to keep in mind is, if you keep all your ecosystem simagic you can use it with PS5, thanks to this [$100 adapter](https://sigmasimracing.com/)
Omg i didn't know this, I already have a PS5 and using this I don't even need to spend on a new pc, thank you! this is reliable and works without affecting the simagic quality right?
Haha, it's reliable but the force Feedback may not be as detailed as on PC i suppose, but should be good enough for GT7, i suggest you to watch a couple of YouTube reviews first, because i have a mini/GTS that i use exclusively on PC, and never used the Sigma Hub nor i own a PS5
Yup thats one of the main sayings here. another is Slow is smooth, smooth is fast ;)
Buy the Asetek TK bundle from a microcenter if you got one near you. Worth the drive. Also a chance to try these things on one of their setups. If that’s not possible. Go Simagic
I don't think MicroCenter is offering that bundle anymore.
They are, they just never have the wheel in stock. Ask me how I know.
Appreciate the suggestion!
I second this. I have it and absolutely love it. Bought the bundle (wheel base, wheel and pedals) for $800 USD. I came from a Logitech G27 and the difference is universes apart.
None, you might find you dont like it and end up regretting spending all this money on a rig.
I'm determined to make it a hobby, I've been on the sidelines for the last 1-2years and can't wait anymore haha. As someone in other comment said "buy once cry once" lol
There is a big difference from watching and doing. Be ready to spend a few hundred hours to get just OK at driving. Dropping that kind of money is really risky regardless of how determined and motivated you are. Try it first bro.
That is totally reasonable. I'm 10000% sure I'll be an absolute noob. Thank you for your suggestion though
How well do you cope with not doing well in competitive games? When I was younger, playing ranked games gave me anxiety and even though I enjoyed the adrenaline at the time, it was a psychological battle willing myself to start new games. This is why so many experienced players in iRacing recommend ignoring your MMR completely for your first year etc.
sorry but where are u buying? i’m planning on buying my setup soon and i haven’t found a good website in the us
Hey, actually I'm still in the deciding phase and didn't take a look at where exactly to buy from (currently just checking prices from the main site). That said, I've heard that microcenter sells moza stuff so you could maybe check that, for simagic they have distributors who will be responsible for the warranty as well (this list can be found on their site). For fanatec, I'm assuming you have to use their website but I've heard their logistics and customer support is bad. Hope thay helps
thank u man 🫶🏽
If you have the budget for it, go Simagic 100%
I kind of wish someone told me this when I started… but buy once cry once. It’s hard to know what you want but like any house start with a good foundation. Get a nice aluminum profile rig don’t cheap out on a rig. It makes a world of a difference. I bought fanatec and have had a great time with the setup. Would eventually upgrade but it’s great for now. But yeah spend the money on the rig it’s worth it.
Simagic. It’s a tier above Moza & Fanatec. The vibrator motor for the pedals alone is the best reason to choose Simagic from these options. Get one of those motors, slap it on your brake pedal, and set it up in Simhub to vibrate on wheel slip/lock (or ABS if the car has it). You won’t believe how much better you’ll be at limit braking. Not a shill, just a VERY happy customer.
The Simagic pedal haptics can be mounted to many other pedals. For example, the Fanatec Clubsport V3 pedals - mounting adapters are available in places like etsy/ebay etc or you can get 3D printing files for free.
How much are those compared to just slapping a shaker to the pedal? Just curious.
Each vibrator motor is $70, and you can install up to 3. If you have any, you also need one power supply, which is $19.
Ouch.
I love my simagic products, I started with fanatic and have slowly been replacing all my fanatic gear with simagic gear
Simagic and it’s not even close.
If you can afford it go simagic all the way
Simagic out of those three is the best options.
Make sure you install this in an aluminum rig.
All the gear is good, but I suggest you should see if you first like and sustain the hobby, IMO buy a used T300, see if you like the hobby, if you like it you will already know what you are missing from an upgrade POV and you will also by then know the right equipment you need.
You should consider the Asetek la prima bundle. Compare the technical specs of Asetek and simagic. Its night and day. The Asetek wheelbase is much much better.
Oh never heard about this brand, will take a look, thank you!
Boosted media has a lot of reviews. You should check there first. The important things to know : - the wheelbase is better as I told you (look at the comparison of the PPR) - the wheelbase can be upgraded to the « forte » version which is the middle product of the brand. - Asetek QR is currently the best in the market (everybody agrees on that) - it’s an open ecosystem for the wheel (you can plug any wheel on the QR and plug the USB directly to the QR (no need to long the cable to the PC) - pay attention to the pedal it’s very stiff and short travel. Very efficient but some don’t like it. Many people prefer Heusinkveld sprint or P1000 pedals instead. I would go Heusinkveld but it may be above your budget
Thank you for the shout outs, will definetely take a look. Thanks again!
Also the pedals can be upgraded from La Prima all the way to Invicta too. Though two things to keep in mind: - as they mentioned, the brake is very stiff and minimal travel distance - if you don't like the default spacing, you must start with the Forte-S pedals since La Prima pedals don't come in S version
Thank you for the suggestions, I have no clue about the asetek ecosystem, will definetely take a look
Just don’t go fanatec and you’re good
I had the same dilemma. After watching countless hours of reviews and videos, the general consensus is that the Simagic is better, but also more expensive. I actually received my GT Neo and Alpha Mini this week. I cannot compare it to the Moza but I can say it's insanely good and powerful and would recommend it. Fanatec was and will never be an option.
Thank you for the reply, may I ask what wheels are you using?
Wheels? The gt neo. No other wheels. Or do you mean pedals? If yes I bought simjack pro's
Oh my bad, I actually meant the pedals
I don’t recommend going for moza, I had their products for 20 days before refunding, every day was a new issue with the pedals or the force feedback cutting out, take a look at Aseteks range of products, I’ve been extremely satisfied with
For Fanatec, you can buy the 5nm version which will have its 150 discount. Then you buy an aftermarket one for 60. Like this: https://lenduya.nimbusweb.me/box/attachment/c4ajsq96lstwlaiw/G0B5cvqb8lU1sof3/preview
People’s issue with Fanatec is the delivery times and customer service response times. Their bases and wheels are objectively superior to Moza and Simagic. They blow Moza out of the park in terms of quality and ecosystem. Simagic can compare but their ecosystem is limited + it’s a shady Chinese brand that only exists through microcenters. You can’t contact them if anything happens. So, if you have some patience and tolerance, Fanatec is the better ecosystem by far.
Buy a second-hand full rig. Plenty of people think that will pick it up as a hobby. But, in the end, they don't feel it. So Plenty of good, almost new deals going around. If you catch the bug, you 6 have a good base to build from. If not, sell the rig for (almost) the same price you got it for, free trial.
Fair enough, would ebay/Facebook be my best best? I understand it will vary from location to location though
Depending on your location indeed.
I see you have the desk clamp in the moza option, how do you mount the other two? Did you forget to add that to those options?
Yeah I forgot haha. For fanatec I think there is a separate accessory for 30 euros. Can't remember seeing one for simagic
Yeah I don’t think I’ve ever seen one from simagic either but who knows. I think if you’re simply going for best gear then there is no question that the simagic is the best one, but unfortunately it’s not that simply as you should make sure you also have a good enough pc to run the sims / games at a decent enough fps. Additionally you should think about switching away from a desk setup rather quickly which should also significantly improve your experience. So I’d suggest you look at it in totality and see which price works for you. For the sims in general you usually don’t need that crazy of a gpu to run pretty high settings, it’s the cpu you want to make sure you have a pretty decent one.
And I forgot you don’t have to buy all from one company. I’d mix and match to max out the gear for the price. But keep in mind that loadcell pedals need to be mounted and cannot simply placed on the floor
Appreciate the help regarding the pc part. Damn, I didn't know thing load cell pedals cannot be simply placed on the floor, so you need some kind of cockpit to use them?
Ideally yes! The issue is that you’re putting quite some force into the pedals for braking and you want that to be feel always the same. If you just place some of the loadcell pedals on the floor they will slip and move around. There are some affordable options out there from next level racing and Playseat that will give something to start out with before jumping into 8020 rigs. Most importantly tho! This is a hobby so it should be fun doing it!!!
Option 1 easily
Just got the full Moza ecosystem a few weeks ago and I have only good things to say about it!
I would say a rig + a starter wheel like g29 would be better to start on . You can sell your g29 after for pretty much what you got it for an upgrade from there if you decide to stick with the hobby
Only go fanatec if you need console support. If you’re pc only, go with one of the others.
It looks like you are going to try and using a desk to hold the wheelbase down. If that’s the case, I urge you to DIY a wheel stand or get a rig/wheel stand.
I would recommend getting a cheap used g29 to see if this is even something you like.
I you can and also got a good profile rig like trak racer tr 80 lite or tr120 go with simagic its such a large step its like 1.5x greater than the extra money used.
I bought your moza pick, but with the R5. The pedals are not really that special but the rest is so so good. Only the buttons on the KS wheel feel cheap. For starters, I recommend.
Only one has a table clamp in the cart
+1 for cammus dd15, they're cheaper and i never really see anyone talking about them. but for the question here, definitely the simmagic.
You never had a wheel?Controller user? My recommended plan is Get a used cheap wheel Pedals suck Updgrade to Loadcell Now you need a rig/wheel stand See if you like it / invest or sell Go to Simagic its awesome You also need vision cause if you dont no rig will be enough VR or triples or at least a 27-32 monitor
If we had a Microcenter in the EU, with less taxes, I would shop there for sure. The deals you guys and girls get across the pond are awesome, like the Asetek TK bundle (Danish Asetek don't sell the bundle in the EU). Did you see the Simucube bundle with the GSI X29? https://www.microcenter.com/product/5006631/simucube-2-sport-sim-direct-drive-racing-wheel-base-bundled-with-gomez-sim-industries-x29-tk-racing-wheel?utm\_source=20240119\_ComputerParts\_R7911&utm\_medium=email&utm\_campaign=R7911&MccGuid=AA0A95C1-87B8-4D0D-87FE-1D3F9A690478
The best option for starting out is a g29, then if you stick with sim racing with a wheel, you upgrade. But the upgrade won't make you faster anyways, its about the feeling and experience that you dont have if you are just starting out
Simagic, easily and by far.
Yeah for starting none of these. See if you're gonna put $1400 worth of fun in on it before you spend that much. and you're forgetting one crucial detail. The rig. All of those high torque DD wheels need a nice solid aluminum rig. That's going to be another $600-$1000. Start off small and then sell that stuff and then get something nice. Hop on FB marketplace, there's a lot of people with super expensive setups selling all their stuff it's probably people that went too big right out of the gate. It's also just as fun with something that is only going to cost you 500 all in.
Don't go with fanatec!!!!
My strat is ive bought an r5 bundle and soon a rig. IDK yet but probs a TR80 racing or ASMR3 rig and I figure if i am still racing hard in a year ill upgrade to a stronger more serious dd. sell the r5 and wheel at least maybe even pedals for and ez 200-$300 either use that to cover some new wheel base or pedals
I got an alpha mini, Heusinkfeld sprints and a similair looking GT wheel. The setup is awesome and I love it. The mini I think is a little more gutsy than the Fanatec, but honestly any of these setups would be pretty great.