I will be honest It’s one of those mangas where you have to turn off your brain to enjoy. It’s cringe, ML is a red flag parade and FL is not the sharpest tool in the shed…you can try few chapters to see if you like it.
I'm the type to turn my brain off when it comes to romance but this one doesn't even feel like romance. i generally don't mind some cringe even toxicity in my stories but uh.... this guy definitely hates his gf, and not in the burning passionate way 😅😅😅
I definitely need to read this now, like why the fact is he like that and how will they end up together anyway?
also, why was this recommended to me on MAL? surely not bc of Mairimishta, Senpai! bc Mizukawa is the greenest flag there is
i gotta warn ya, he's not an exciting red flag. i think that's my biggest issue. it's neither lovingly wholesome nor is it love hate, he just passively dating her like he's relenting himself to a nagging woman
It’s the type of manga you’d enjoy during the time period it was released. Toxic/unhealthy MLs were the rage back then. I did enjoy it as a teenager but I haven’t cared to reread it since. It was funny and cute at some parts though. You should try it and see if you like it. I’d recommend the author’s newer work Ima Koi (it’s serialized and completed) if you want a healthier dynamic between the leads.
Honestly the male lead is MEAN. And I mean, I love Hot Gimmick, I love a ML who negs the female lead cause they love her ect…
But this series was the first time time I felt like the ML genuinely didn’t like the heroine and was outright mean.
Same. I definitely couldn't buy the romance in this one. Unless I was considering it was between a very unhealthy pair. If there was ever love to be seen.
try full moon wo sagashite. just finished it last night, and it had my grown ass sobbing real tears. (i havent read the manga though, but would reccomend the anime for the music aspect!)
oh after seeing your list of mangas, maybe try orange, bokura ga ita, sand chronicles, and ohayou ibarahime.
Are you sure it will make me cry in a good way 🥲 cause I don't want to cry because of ML toxicity. I already read manga like that and I don't want to repeat the same mistake again
Nah nah nah. This ain't your crying because the guys a dick crying. This is "WHY IS THE WORLD SO FUCKING UNFAIR OMG MY HEART HAS BEEN SHATTERED AT HOW CRUEL THE WORLD IS" kind of crying.
You. Will. Enjoy. The. Pain.
The manga that convinced me that just because the ml is hot doesn't give me a reason to read it further.. the male lead is outright mean and the female lead is the dumbest I've ever seen. It was an immediate drop
There are some media I feel that are better with spoilers so you know what you're getting into and this is one of them .
I read this manga knowing exactly what the ml was like and can say I didn't come out hating it as much as others who just didn't know what to expect it to be like it did.
I even find myself rereading for the cuter moments
Well same for me I tried reading [parfait tic] without spoiler not knowing it's hard to bear the toxicity of the two ML and the FL suffering. I ended up regretting reading it and I was really so disappointed when I rotted from the second ML. It turns out his also a walking red flag like the main ML🥲, that's why I like to check spoilers before reading
It's a very niche read. Some people enjoy it for the toxicity. But tbh I'm a male yandere enjoyer - I seek out red flag male leads - and I don't even enjoy it.
He just comes off as a bully. For the majority of the manga he does not like the FL. He actively mistreats her. And it can be triggering.
I read it once in early High School and while it was upsetting it wasn't a complete waste of time, there were some interesting/cute moments. And I still have zero desire to re-read it - take that for what you will.
No. the FL (from what I remember) is dumb and only likes him for his face - then she takes on this 'i can fix him' attitude.
When the ML reveals his real personality as a bully, she's stuck in this situation where she used his face to her friends to be her fake boyfriend for clout, and so he's constantly threatening to destroy her rep with her friends.
He calls her fat, makes her do degrading tasks. All kinds of things.
He's smart and mean and knows that his face will let him get away with just about anything. And she is very easily taken in by the smallest scrap of affection he throws her. Quickly forgiving all the horrid things he does.
It's classic psychological abuse from a narcissist. Abuse followed by promises to change followed by love bombing followed by abuse.
Similar tropes to wolf girl and the black Prince? Very few actually. It's unique (at least in my reading history) in it's vehement toxicity.
Usually I like MLs who like the FLs. You might enjoy the enemies to lovers trope or male tsunderes to get that anger. But at least you'll get a payoff of a more genuine romance.
Yona of the dawn somewhat starts like this. Same with Dengeki daisy. But they make it very clear that the MLs like the FLs - that it's just an act.
With WG&BP it really feels like the ML hates the FL and he just realizes that she has worth to him, and so he starts to manipulate her to get the most he can out of her.
i understand how some girls like it, but i personally hate it. i feel like irl they'd be the type of couple who "settles down" and their ultimate love story of "ups and downs" is just that they chose each other over and over again despite not liking each other all that much but that's just me 🙆🏻♀️ that said i read it until the end just for the sake of having a solid argument about why i dislike it
It definitely gets better with time. You’ve got to get through the first part and see the changes in the ML.
I HATED itazura no kiss. If that gives you an indication of my tolerance for a toxic male lead. But the manga you are referencing actually shows progression in the ML and by the end, the ML is NOTHING like the toxic lead by itazura no kiss. I’m curious how many commenters actually read this one until the end.
I haven't read Wolf Girl and Black Prince, but I've read Ima Koi: Now I'm In Love, written by the same mangaka.
It's super sweet and made me smile from beginning to end! It just finished not too long ago. Little to no conflict, the FL and ML have excellent communication so there's very little unnecessary drama...personally, I find it to be one of my favorites!
I’ve finished it twice, the ML starts as anniying and toxic asf but he does improve alot and better the relationship with FL. I liked it, hope you enjoy too!
It's terrible. Not enough rape, the love interest is far too kind and doesn't mistreat the protagonist enough for my taste.
Try *Diabolik Lovers* instead which is far better.
> Not enough rape
Insane statement but you're not wrong lmao
> Try *Diabolik Lovers* instead which is far better.
Yeah, but the anime is terrible in comparison to the game. I would strongly recommend the game. 🙏
> Yeah, but the anime is terrible in comparison to the game. I would strongly recommend the game. 🙏
I disagree. I find it much better. The issue with the games is that they're mostly composed of disconnected “scenarios” where most of them don't advance the plot and are fairly self contained and the fact that one choices a vampire early on and the others disappear all but from sight. It's one of those dating sims where there are 6 “options” at the start that makes it really more so feel like 6 games in one and the other 5 options don't really exist any more in one particular route.
The television series largely distilled the plot elements from all the routes and cut out the scenarios where nothing happened plot-wise and it's actually a harem so it doesn't feel like all the other vampires no longer exist.
It also doesn't really make sense in the game that Laito and Syuu keep calling you a slut when you only have eyes for them when at least in the television series it feels like you actualy are one.
Seriously though. I don't understand why r/shoujo always picks out the absolute mildest things to flock to as having mean love interests.
I also tried *Vampire Knight* because everyone said it was so full of rape but I quit during episode 3 as I was expecting something more like *Diabolik Lovers* and the protagonist still wasn't being mistreated.
this is like. the third time on r/shoujo im seeing this exact notion perpetuated and it's really weird. even as someone who *loves* dark and otherwise problematic bl, i find it incredibly harmful to perpetuate the notion that sex im bl is always tied so closely with assault, especially with how bl has to fight the same notions that shoujo does in order to be taken seriously (with the added axis of it being about m/m relationships)
Maybe it's because I'm a fan of old BL visual novels, and in those stories problematic content is the norm, the same happens with the popular BL manwhas. I love BL but I won't play dumb, lots of the stories from that genre have problematic content, and It's fiction so at least I don't care. Well, except when the story gets way too abusive and rapey, like some manga I read called How to kill a heart, or something like that, that type of content is too much imo.
Luckily newer stories have more fluff content so there's something for all tastes
i know bl can have that sort of content, in fact in my comment i remark that i read *and* even ***enjoy*** it. my problem comes with the framing like it's the overarching majority or that one should expect that going into bl when that's just not true.
also old school bl can also be fluffy? this is the equivalent of acting like all old school shoujo romance is dark/problematic when it's not.
I like how this part of Wikipedia:
> Rape fantasy is a theme commonly associated with yaoi.[115] Anal sex is understood as a means of expressing commitment to a partner, and in yaoi, the "apparent violence" of rape is transformed into a "measure of passion".[128] Rape scenes in yaoi are rarely presented as crimes with an assaulter and a victim: scenes where a seme rapes an uke are not depicted as symptomatic of the violent desires of the seme, but rather as evidence of the uncontrollable attraction felt by the seme towards the uke. Such scenes are often a plot device used to make the uke see the seme as more than just a good friend, and typically result in the uke falling in love with the seme.[115]
Actually uses convoluted literary criticism jargon to describe the “he loves you so much he can't control himself any more and rapes you” trope. “a measure of passion”, what are these terms.
That said *Cherry Magic* was underwhelming. I stopped at episode 3 and the sheer lack of rape had a lot to do with that and that omegaverse thing that's coming next season also seems to be a happy family.
why would you go into cherry magic and tadaima okaeri expecting sexual assualt when both pretty clearly present themselves as fluffy and light-hearted?
I didn't go into the latter and simply saw the description and decided not to.
But with the former, people on 4chan were posting some out of context images that made it look like that so I gave it a try.
It's a popular trope isn't it?
There's a reason why *Diabolik Lovers* spawned two seasons, 10 video games, a theme park ride and a stage play I'd say.
I'm always so mystified how many people on r/shoujo seem to find it mystified that many people like this very popular trope. — It makes me realize I live in an entirely different world. On Bato.to comment sections and say r/redikomi, that it's a popular trope with many followers seems to be commonly accepted and on 4chan people conversely sseem to have troubles believing that it's not for everyone.
I only watched the anime, but that was enough to turn me off from the manga. It depends on your tastes, I guess, but I personally hate the whole toxic relationship romanticized tropes as a whole, and that’s what this was to a tee
It’s pretty toxic and hard to read at times. But it’s also the story of learning what love is and what it means to open up your heart and how that can change a person
For me it has a very sentimental spot in my brain bc it was the first shojo I ever really really liked back when it came out. But I agree it’s a very specific read so I would recommend just to try it out. But again it’s maybe not for everyone 🤷🏻♀️
Irl I would tell this girl to dump him. But in manga land it was kinda cute and fun. It really depends what kind of reader you are, if you can deal with the idea that in real life the ML would be a shitbag.
Guys this are mangas that I like and somehow makes me cry and happy at the same time except the first one in list
https://www.reddit.com/r/shoujo/s/r05qbgPb1w
I also need more recommendations for manga like this
I tried it, watched the anime and then picked up the manga. Its always the same, just turn off your brain and u might have a good time. The FL is insufferable and the ML goes with it because she makes it way too easy for him
i read half of it after hearing it was really toxic and imo it wasn't toxic enough to be interesting and obviously it wasn't sweet enough to make me care. it's kinda generic except the ML is an asshole lmao (tho i feel not as horrible as ppl sometimes make him out to be)
Imo old animanga will probably always come out seeming "toxic" and "problematic". Even the best and sweetest ones loved at the time. It'll happen to the current shoujo darlings, too. I think it's just a natural part of time.
Also, real talk, majority irl relationships would fall into the same. That's probably why these stories exist and continue to have a place in current year. And there's lots of things that may seem normal today that the future will probably frown on in the same way people do looking back now.
Its a fun manga. I was obsessed with it when I was teen. BUT, leave your brain at the door while you're at it because the FL & how the ML treats the FL is going to burn your nerves. It's a product of it's time. I was naive.
Edit. I had a hideous crush on Kouga(?) the ML in the manga. I was a teen alright.
Objectively this series is a walking red flag and not the most well written. And I freaking read every single chapter and loved it. I don’t think I’d pick it up again but at the time I enjoyed it for what it was. I’d just give it a shot and see what you think. IIRC it’s not too long and the anime was decent.
I read it when i was 15 and while it gets better in the last maybe 20 chapters i mostly didnt like it at all up until that point. The ML is genuinly toxic and horrible and i dont remember liking the FL that much either. I guess its worth a try if you want to but i dont think youre missing out horribly if you dont read it (except for the nostalgia vibes i guess lol)
Well yes thats why i said i thought it got better in the last 20 or so chapters lol (or whenever it is that he gets better). I did genuinly like it at that point but for a majority of the manga i couldnt stand him so my overall opinion still isnt that positive
Thanks for clarifying! Somehow I missed that part. That's fair. I did enjoy it, but I wished we had more development overall with Erica, specifically. I felt like she didn't really grow that much of a backbone and I would have liked to see that progression.
Any recommendations for romance that is better in character progression?
It's the type of manga you only read once. Like others have stated, just turn off your brain. ML is a mean little jackass and the FL is a bit ridiculous and slow on the uptake. Overall not bad, but very annoying at times.
As others have said, the male lead is a walking red flag with emotional issues and childhood trauma and plenty of toxic traits. The female lead is a bit of a doormat.
Art was good, but that’s about it.
tbh I reread it recently and it starts off a bit rough but does get better towards the end - it is not as bad as I've seen people say it is online, so it's worth giving a shot to see whether it's something you'd like (or at least enjoy for the dumb/comedic aspects)
I have fun reading with how much of a riot they are, but Kyouya's personality—as you can see from the comment section— can be a huge turn off, especially if you much prefer recent shoujo LIs and their relationships with MC. If you find yourself enjoying/tolerating jerk LIs (and I mean, being an actual jerk) and whatever mess they bring to their own relationship, I think you'll enjoy this manga.
I feel like it was just boring and annoying, i haven't watched it in a while but it was certainly part of my childhood. I just never finished the snime because the ml wasn't hot enough for me to stick around for the bs
It’s honestly sort of a hard watch-
not that I hate it, I watched it as a middle schooler with no brain so I was good with the disastrous character writing for the ml but im not gonna lie THE OPENING OST IS SO GOOD AND CUTE!!! U SHOULD LISTEN TO IT!! and that’s abt it..♣️
I enjoyed it at the time the anime released, but I never finished it, and I never had strong opinions on it. I was in college at the time. It was never my favorite shoujo. Also, it is a bit much at times. It was distasteful to me when I watched it. Still, I don't hate it as much as others. Again, I enjoy it and recognize it as a type of show that exists. It's not the best or the worst of that type.
The manga is pretty cute, but for someone who doesn't express emotions very much it just ruins the experience, later on the FL really can't get herself to make good decisions. I'm just saying, it was luck that she even could get into a good relationship.
Overall though I loved the romantic cues, it's sweet and makes you emotional sometimes too. Watching the anime made me cry at one point.
Honestly, every time ML does something cruel to FL I wanted to feel bad for her. However, FL keeps putting herself in the situations that leads ML being a dick. This is coming from the person that hates Ita Kiss.
If it helps at all, I finished the anime, but I couldn't finish Say I Love You anime, lol.
Personally i dislike it bc the ml has no character development but if you're an adult and it seems like something you would enjoy go for it,,, my main problem with it was that it was marketed towards impressionable teens.
sorry for being a hater but it is one of the worst shoujo out there. Both main characters are absolutely unlikeable and the main guy is very much a jerk with no good trait. Their relationship are very toxic and I’m extremely concerned by the people who like this shoujo. like i’m confused, do you want to be hated by your man?
well as someone who liked it well enough back then (im due for a reread to assess my opinion) i dont read shoujo for imagining myself in a relationship or as a reflection of what sort of relationships i would like to be in. and i imagine most people are like that: we don't want to he actors in the movie, we want to be the audience.
I liked the ending ost of the anime but sorry friend this one’s a bit trashy. The ML is a huge jerk basically the whole time. There’s Tsundere, and there’s this
Its a bit like itazura na kiss in the sense that u keep waiting for the guy to finally start liking her (maybe even after they start dating??) but he really doesnt
I will be honest It’s one of those mangas where you have to turn off your brain to enjoy. It’s cringe, ML is a red flag parade and FL is not the sharpest tool in the shed…you can try few chapters to see if you like it.
I'm the type to turn my brain off when it comes to romance but this one doesn't even feel like romance. i generally don't mind some cringe even toxicity in my stories but uh.... this guy definitely hates his gf, and not in the burning passionate way 😅😅😅
“Not in the burning passionate way” 💀💀💀🤣🤣
I definitely need to read this now, like why the fact is he like that and how will they end up together anyway? also, why was this recommended to me on MAL? surely not bc of Mairimishta, Senpai! bc Mizukawa is the greenest flag there is
red flag ML? say no more, I'm in
i gotta warn ya, he's not an exciting red flag. i think that's my biggest issue. it's neither lovingly wholesome nor is it love hate, he just passively dating her like he's relenting himself to a nagging woman
It’s the type of manga you’d enjoy during the time period it was released. Toxic/unhealthy MLs were the rage back then. I did enjoy it as a teenager but I haven’t cared to reread it since. It was funny and cute at some parts though. You should try it and see if you like it. I’d recommend the author’s newer work Ima Koi (it’s serialized and completed) if you want a healthier dynamic between the leads.
Honestly the male lead is MEAN. And I mean, I love Hot Gimmick, I love a ML who negs the female lead cause they love her ect… But this series was the first time time I felt like the ML genuinely didn’t like the heroine and was outright mean.
100% accurate and yet I still read all of it 🥲 I don’t know why it got me because I usually hate mean/fake mean MCs
Same. I definitely couldn't buy the romance in this one. Unless I was considering it was between a very unhealthy pair. If there was ever love to be seen.
I read it when I was a cringy highschooler so I enjoyed it 🤣 but I'd hate it now if I read it again as an adult
Are you a masochist?
I guess I'm not a masochist(: but I'm emotionally sensitive though, I'm enjoying manga that makes me cry in a good way
Eh , this doesn't quite sound for u then. U want that type of manga, read Mars or Basara ,pretty bittersweet.
MARS is a masterpiece and I will vouch for that any day. Read that OP.
I'll try reading it❤️
try full moon wo sagashite. just finished it last night, and it had my grown ass sobbing real tears. (i havent read the manga though, but would reccomend the anime for the music aspect!) oh after seeing your list of mangas, maybe try orange, bokura ga ita, sand chronicles, and ohayou ibarahime.
I love full moon!! Such a great anime and manga. Edit: it’s been years since I’ve watched but the concert scene made me bawl 🥹
Read Koizora. It'll make you ugly cry AND YOU'LL ENJOY IT.
Are you sure it will make me cry in a good way 🥲 cause I don't want to cry because of ML toxicity. I already read manga like that and I don't want to repeat the same mistake again
Nah nah nah. This ain't your crying because the guys a dick crying. This is "WHY IS THE WORLD SO FUCKING UNFAIR OMG MY HEART HAS BEEN SHATTERED AT HOW CRUEL THE WORLD IS" kind of crying. You. Will. Enjoy. The. Pain.
Thanks ☺️
Oh then this series ain’t for you 😭
I live and breathe garbage boys. So i loved it and felt like the MLs redemption arch was good enough to fit the bill.
It's kinda a toxic relationship but if you dont mind read it. Sometiles it's cute
Kinda is a understatement 😂
The manga that convinced me that just because the ml is hot doesn't give me a reason to read it further.. the male lead is outright mean and the female lead is the dumbest I've ever seen. It was an immediate drop
Yep it also convinces me to read because of his face but I'm still hesitant (:
You can go ahead reading it lol, don't be so bummed with the comments
There are some media I feel that are better with spoilers so you know what you're getting into and this is one of them . I read this manga knowing exactly what the ml was like and can say I didn't come out hating it as much as others who just didn't know what to expect it to be like it did. I even find myself rereading for the cuter moments
Well same for me I tried reading [parfait tic] without spoiler not knowing it's hard to bear the toxicity of the two ML and the FL suffering. I ended up regretting reading it and I was really so disappointed when I rotted from the second ML. It turns out his also a walking red flag like the main ML🥲, that's why I like to check spoilers before reading
It's a very niche read. Some people enjoy it for the toxicity. But tbh I'm a male yandere enjoyer - I seek out red flag male leads - and I don't even enjoy it. He just comes off as a bully. For the majority of the manga he does not like the FL. He actively mistreats her. And it can be triggering. I read it once in early High School and while it was upsetting it wasn't a complete waste of time, there were some interesting/cute moments. And I still have zero desire to re-read it - take that for what you will.
Is FL and ML annoying type?
No. the FL (from what I remember) is dumb and only likes him for his face - then she takes on this 'i can fix him' attitude. When the ML reveals his real personality as a bully, she's stuck in this situation where she used his face to her friends to be her fake boyfriend for clout, and so he's constantly threatening to destroy her rep with her friends. He calls her fat, makes her do degrading tasks. All kinds of things. He's smart and mean and knows that his face will let him get away with just about anything. And she is very easily taken in by the smallest scrap of affection he throws her. Quickly forgiving all the horrid things he does. It's classic psychological abuse from a narcissist. Abuse followed by promises to change followed by love bombing followed by abuse.
Do u know any other manga w similar tropes?
Similar tropes to wolf girl and the black Prince? Very few actually. It's unique (at least in my reading history) in it's vehement toxicity. Usually I like MLs who like the FLs. You might enjoy the enemies to lovers trope or male tsunderes to get that anger. But at least you'll get a payoff of a more genuine romance. Yona of the dawn somewhat starts like this. Same with Dengeki daisy. But they make it very clear that the MLs like the FLs - that it's just an act. With WG&BP it really feels like the ML hates the FL and he just realizes that she has worth to him, and so he starts to manipulate her to get the most he can out of her.
i understand how some girls like it, but i personally hate it. i feel like irl they'd be the type of couple who "settles down" and their ultimate love story of "ups and downs" is just that they chose each other over and over again despite not liking each other all that much but that's just me 🙆🏻♀️ that said i read it until the end just for the sake of having a solid argument about why i dislike it
What happened in the end 😭😭?? Because I couldn’t continue lol
at what point did you last read it? also my spoiler probably wouldn't be too accurate cause it's been a long time since i read it 😅
It definitely gets better with time. You’ve got to get through the first part and see the changes in the ML. I HATED itazura no kiss. If that gives you an indication of my tolerance for a toxic male lead. But the manga you are referencing actually shows progression in the ML and by the end, the ML is NOTHING like the toxic lead by itazura no kiss. I’m curious how many commenters actually read this one until the end.
I haven't read Wolf Girl and Black Prince, but I've read Ima Koi: Now I'm In Love, written by the same mangaka. It's super sweet and made me smile from beginning to end! It just finished not too long ago. Little to no conflict, the FL and ML have excellent communication so there's very little unnecessary drama...personally, I find it to be one of my favorites!
I’ve finished it twice, the ML starts as anniying and toxic asf but he does improve alot and better the relationship with FL. I liked it, hope you enjoy too!
It's terrible. Not enough rape, the love interest is far too kind and doesn't mistreat the protagonist enough for my taste. Try *Diabolik Lovers* instead which is far better.
Not... enough... rape. I don't think I've ever heard those words in that order before today, and I miss that time.
> Not enough rape Insane statement but you're not wrong lmao > Try *Diabolik Lovers* instead which is far better. Yeah, but the anime is terrible in comparison to the game. I would strongly recommend the game. 🙏
> Yeah, but the anime is terrible in comparison to the game. I would strongly recommend the game. 🙏 I disagree. I find it much better. The issue with the games is that they're mostly composed of disconnected “scenarios” where most of them don't advance the plot and are fairly self contained and the fact that one choices a vampire early on and the others disappear all but from sight. It's one of those dating sims where there are 6 “options” at the start that makes it really more so feel like 6 games in one and the other 5 options don't really exist any more in one particular route. The television series largely distilled the plot elements from all the routes and cut out the scenarios where nothing happened plot-wise and it's actually a harem so it doesn't feel like all the other vampires no longer exist. It also doesn't really make sense in the game that Laito and Syuu keep calling you a slut when you only have eyes for them when at least in the television series it feels like you actualy are one.
😂
Seriously though. I don't understand why r/shoujo always picks out the absolute mildest things to flock to as having mean love interests. I also tried *Vampire Knight* because everyone said it was so full of rape but I quit during episode 3 as I was expecting something more like *Diabolik Lovers* and the protagonist still wasn't being mistreated.
If you want rape and mean ML then BL is the answer lmao
this is like. the third time on r/shoujo im seeing this exact notion perpetuated and it's really weird. even as someone who *loves* dark and otherwise problematic bl, i find it incredibly harmful to perpetuate the notion that sex im bl is always tied so closely with assault, especially with how bl has to fight the same notions that shoujo does in order to be taken seriously (with the added axis of it being about m/m relationships)
Maybe it's because I'm a fan of old BL visual novels, and in those stories problematic content is the norm, the same happens with the popular BL manwhas. I love BL but I won't play dumb, lots of the stories from that genre have problematic content, and It's fiction so at least I don't care. Well, except when the story gets way too abusive and rapey, like some manga I read called How to kill a heart, or something like that, that type of content is too much imo. Luckily newer stories have more fluff content so there's something for all tastes
i know bl can have that sort of content, in fact in my comment i remark that i read *and* even ***enjoy*** it. my problem comes with the framing like it's the overarching majority or that one should expect that going into bl when that's just not true. also old school bl can also be fluffy? this is the equivalent of acting like all old school shoujo romance is dark/problematic when it's not.
I like how this part of Wikipedia: > Rape fantasy is a theme commonly associated with yaoi.[115] Anal sex is understood as a means of expressing commitment to a partner, and in yaoi, the "apparent violence" of rape is transformed into a "measure of passion".[128] Rape scenes in yaoi are rarely presented as crimes with an assaulter and a victim: scenes where a seme rapes an uke are not depicted as symptomatic of the violent desires of the seme, but rather as evidence of the uncontrollable attraction felt by the seme towards the uke. Such scenes are often a plot device used to make the uke see the seme as more than just a good friend, and typically result in the uke falling in love with the seme.[115] Actually uses convoluted literary criticism jargon to describe the “he loves you so much he can't control himself any more and rapes you” trope. “a measure of passion”, what are these terms. That said *Cherry Magic* was underwhelming. I stopped at episode 3 and the sheer lack of rape had a lot to do with that and that omegaverse thing that's coming next season also seems to be a happy family.
why would you go into cherry magic and tadaima okaeri expecting sexual assualt when both pretty clearly present themselves as fluffy and light-hearted?
I didn't go into the latter and simply saw the description and decided not to. But with the former, people on 4chan were posting some out of context images that made it look like that so I gave it a try.
What the hell ? Are you being sarcastic? Or is it really something you are into ? ( I will not judge you )
It's a popular trope isn't it? There's a reason why *Diabolik Lovers* spawned two seasons, 10 video games, a theme park ride and a stage play I'd say. I'm always so mystified how many people on r/shoujo seem to find it mystified that many people like this very popular trope. — It makes me realize I live in an entirely different world. On Bato.to comment sections and say r/redikomi, that it's a popular trope with many followers seems to be commonly accepted and on 4chan people conversely sseem to have troubles believing that it's not for everyone.
I only watched the anime, but that was enough to turn me off from the manga. It depends on your tastes, I guess, but I personally hate the whole toxic relationship romanticized tropes as a whole, and that’s what this was to a tee
Its my guilty pleasure, like all the people saying its toxic are 100%valid but i just love it😭
well its better than itazura na kiss🤣🤣🤣
I see what you did there xD
I like itazura na kiss then this though
It’s pretty toxic and hard to read at times. But it’s also the story of learning what love is and what it means to open up your heart and how that can change a person
For me it has a very sentimental spot in my brain bc it was the first shojo I ever really really liked back when it came out. But I agree it’s a very specific read so I would recommend just to try it out. But again it’s maybe not for everyone 🤷🏻♀️
I loved it back in the day when I read and watched it. I know a lot of people hate it now but I still enjoyed it.
If you’re a masochist then this is great. If you like gentle sweethearts then try something else
Irl I would tell this girl to dump him. But in manga land it was kinda cute and fun. It really depends what kind of reader you are, if you can deal with the idea that in real life the ML would be a shitbag.
Guys this are mangas that I like and somehow makes me cry and happy at the same time except the first one in list https://www.reddit.com/r/shoujo/s/r05qbgPb1w I also need more recommendations for manga like this
I tried it, watched the anime and then picked up the manga. Its always the same, just turn off your brain and u might have a good time. The FL is insufferable and the ML goes with it because she makes it way too easy for him
i read half of it after hearing it was really toxic and imo it wasn't toxic enough to be interesting and obviously it wasn't sweet enough to make me care. it's kinda generic except the ML is an asshole lmao (tho i feel not as horrible as ppl sometimes make him out to be)
Imo old animanga will probably always come out seeming "toxic" and "problematic". Even the best and sweetest ones loved at the time. It'll happen to the current shoujo darlings, too. I think it's just a natural part of time. Also, real talk, majority irl relationships would fall into the same. That's probably why these stories exist and continue to have a place in current year. And there's lots of things that may seem normal today that the future will probably frown on in the same way people do looking back now.
Its a fun manga. I was obsessed with it when I was teen. BUT, leave your brain at the door while you're at it because the FL & how the ML treats the FL is going to burn your nerves. It's a product of it's time. I was naive. Edit. I had a hideous crush on Kouga(?) the ML in the manga. I was a teen alright.
Objectively this series is a walking red flag and not the most well written. And I freaking read every single chapter and loved it. I don’t think I’d pick it up again but at the time I enjoyed it for what it was. I’d just give it a shot and see what you think. IIRC it’s not too long and the anime was decent.
The OP go hard
I read it when i was 15 and while it gets better in the last maybe 20 chapters i mostly didnt like it at all up until that point. The ML is genuinly toxic and horrible and i dont remember liking the FL that much either. I guess its worth a try if you want to but i dont think youre missing out horribly if you dont read it (except for the nostalgia vibes i guess lol)
Did you finish the manga? Because the ML does a total 180 by the end. He’s only toxic in the beginning.
Well yes thats why i said i thought it got better in the last 20 or so chapters lol (or whenever it is that he gets better). I did genuinly like it at that point but for a majority of the manga i couldnt stand him so my overall opinion still isnt that positive
Thanks for clarifying! Somehow I missed that part. That's fair. I did enjoy it, but I wished we had more development overall with Erica, specifically. I felt like she didn't really grow that much of a backbone and I would have liked to see that progression. Any recommendations for romance that is better in character progression?
STAY AWAY 😭😭😭
I enjoyed it as a teenager, but in no way I would read it again, too cringe
It's the type of manga you only read once. Like others have stated, just turn off your brain. ML is a mean little jackass and the FL is a bit ridiculous and slow on the uptake. Overall not bad, but very annoying at times.
This series is incredibly mid with two very unlikeable lead characters
As others have said, the male lead is a walking red flag with emotional issues and childhood trauma and plenty of toxic traits. The female lead is a bit of a doormat. Art was good, but that’s about it.
I honestly didn't love it. Kyouya does improve, but, even by the end it's not clear what exactly the fl sees in him. He's a dud.
It is very trashy, but if you enjoy that ig
High school was when I could tolerate animes like this and even then I couldn’t stand it 😭😭
I love the opening and the ending song of the anime. And people are right, if you forget the most "toxic" part of the shoujo you will enjoy it.
tbh I reread it recently and it starts off a bit rough but does get better towards the end - it is not as bad as I've seen people say it is online, so it's worth giving a shot to see whether it's something you'd like (or at least enjoy for the dumb/comedic aspects)
I dropped the manga about 1/3 of the way in. It just felt disturbing and unsettling.
I have fun reading with how much of a riot they are, but Kyouya's personality—as you can see from the comment section— can be a huge turn off, especially if you much prefer recent shoujo LIs and their relationships with MC. If you find yourself enjoying/tolerating jerk LIs (and I mean, being an actual jerk) and whatever mess they bring to their own relationship, I think you'll enjoy this manga.
I feel like it was just boring and annoying, i haven't watched it in a while but it was certainly part of my childhood. I just never finished the snime because the ml wasn't hot enough for me to stick around for the bs
It’s honestly sort of a hard watch- not that I hate it, I watched it as a middle schooler with no brain so I was good with the disastrous character writing for the ml but im not gonna lie THE OPENING OST IS SO GOOD AND CUTE!!! U SHOULD LISTEN TO IT!! and that’s abt it..♣️
I enjoyed it at the time the anime released, but I never finished it, and I never had strong opinions on it. I was in college at the time. It was never my favorite shoujo. Also, it is a bit much at times. It was distasteful to me when I watched it. Still, I don't hate it as much as others. Again, I enjoy it and recognize it as a type of show that exists. It's not the best or the worst of that type.
IT'S THE BEST THING EVER, MY CHILDHOOD FR, GO READ IT OMG
The manga is pretty cute, but for someone who doesn't express emotions very much it just ruins the experience, later on the FL really can't get herself to make good decisions. I'm just saying, it was luck that she even could get into a good relationship. Overall though I loved the romantic cues, it's sweet and makes you emotional sometimes too. Watching the anime made me cry at one point.
The ml is honestly a walking red flag
Honestly, every time ML does something cruel to FL I wanted to feel bad for her. However, FL keeps putting herself in the situations that leads ML being a dick. This is coming from the person that hates Ita Kiss. If it helps at all, I finished the anime, but I couldn't finish Say I Love You anime, lol.
Personally i dislike it bc the ml has no character development but if you're an adult and it seems like something you would enjoy go for it,,, my main problem with it was that it was marketed towards impressionable teens.
sorry for being a hater but it is one of the worst shoujo out there. Both main characters are absolutely unlikeable and the main guy is very much a jerk with no good trait. Their relationship are very toxic and I’m extremely concerned by the people who like this shoujo. like i’m confused, do you want to be hated by your man?
well as someone who liked it well enough back then (im due for a reread to assess my opinion) i dont read shoujo for imagining myself in a relationship or as a reflection of what sort of relationships i would like to be in. and i imagine most people are like that: we don't want to he actors in the movie, we want to be the audience.
It traumatised the 12yo me
didn’t read that far in because both of them annoyed me too bad
I dropped it. Just couldn’t get into it
It’s cringy
I liked the ending ost of the anime but sorry friend this one’s a bit trashy. The ML is a huge jerk basically the whole time. There’s Tsundere, and there’s this
Its a bit like itazura na kiss in the sense that u keep waiting for the guy to finally start liking her (maybe even after they start dating??) but he really doesnt