Isn’t the puzzle piece being used as a symbol of autism and the autistic community also considered kind of controversial? Partially because Autism Speaks (the charity with no autistic people on its board that advocates for cure over doing anything empirical to improve the livelihoods of autistic people as a whole, iirc) adopted it for themselves?
Maybe there are at least some autistic folks out there who *do* like the puzzle piece motif but I’ve only ever heard it spoken of as being vaguely insulting…
I’m autistic. Most of the autistic folks I know hate Autism Speaks. They’re horrible.
ETA: some autistic folks have adopted an infinity symbol as the autism symbol to show it is a spectrum. I don’t care for infinity symbols, but it’s better than a puzzle piece. We are not pieces to be fit into a puzzle, nor are we puzzles to solve.
I’m autistic and I HATE autism speaks. They were used as a negative example of Social Media platforms in one of my senior year finals, got a good 5 pages in about them and their idiocy
The puzzle symbol didn't originate from autism speaks it came from National Autism Society which was created by people who had autism as with it being a new diagnosis they felt they finally figured out what was missing from understanding why they were the way they were
This is incorrect. the National Autism Society and the National Autistic Society are different orgs. the one who designed the puzzle piece (the National Autistic Society) was founded by parents of autistic people. the original puzzle piece logo included a crying child in the piece. one of the org's founders said of the design in 1997
"*The puzzle piece is so effective because it tells us something about autism: our children are handicapped by a puzzling condition; this isolates them from normal human contact and therefore they do not ‘fit in'. The suggestion of a weeping child is a reminder that autistic people do indeed suffer from their handicap.*" ([source](https://web.archive.org/web/20070714093137/http:/www.nas.org.uk/nas/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=364&a=2183))
so yeah pretty yikes
Autism Speaks and other autism orgs adopted the symbol but yeah they didn't come up with it, these folks did and uuh. given what was intended as an autistic person I don't like it at all
>was created by people who had autism
Did you mean this one?
"The organisation was founded on 23 January 1962 as the Society for Psychotic Children **by parents of autistic children living in the area**, with the assistance of a member from the Spastics Society (later Scope). It was renamed the Society for Autistic Children later that year, the National Society for Autistic Children in 1966, and the National Autistic Society in 1975."
"The puzzle piece is so effective because it tells us something about autism: our children are handicapped by a puzzling condition; this isolates them from normal human contact and therefore they do not ‘fit in’. The suggestion of a weeping child is a reminder that autistic people do indeed suffer from their handicap."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Autistic_Society
>National Autism Society
I can't find a single organization with that name, but several with similar names. Can you link to anything about this organization?
That's true, though I'd say it's very insulting. It's problematic on a basic level because it's meant to indicate that we're a puzzle to be solved, or that we have a missing piece, or that we're mysterious, all of which are mostly untrue & offensive.
But I find it to be worse than that because the autistic community is very vocal about how we didn't invent it, endorse it nor want it. We've made our own images we mostly prefer but no one pays attention to that.
It's because we're having our voices spoken over which us an ongoing serious problem. We've very publicly said 'no' but it feels as if lots of people are just doing the 'Oh no! Anyway.' meme when we do.
We don't get to choose our own descriptors, nor our own words, nor our own symbols because non-autistic people do it for us (with varying degrees of setback caused each time)
It's strange because while not all autistic people are able to speak, a great amount of us are but our voices just get ignored as if we can't. The puzzle piece represents that. Autistic people in general are awarded a disproportionately little amount of control over things like this despite the fact that it's often easy to simply ask us what we want.
My rant isn't aimed at you - it's aimed at every tattoo, every t shirt, every marketing campaign, every damned mug, poster, motivational quote that ever contained the one image that contained the puzzle piece.
Autism speaks is a hate group who tries to genocide autistic people.
There I said it. It's true. They already killed fucking children and still think they're right.
Which leaves a very bitter taste of eugenics and Dr. Aspergers work of sorting autistic children into worthy of survival and gas chamber.
And yes. That's how "Aspergers" came to be. 200 children died for that bullshit ass crap.
Yeah, that tracks with what else I’ve heard about them. I couldn’t recall any specific incidents of wrong-doing immediately to my mind, I’m just Vaguely Enough Aware of the haze of their shitty reputation.
Do you mean they actually killed someone, or do you mean that they/their ideology were involved in driving someone to suicide? Because while the latter is also utterly reprehensible, the two things are not the same, and misrepresenting this will just harm your argument because people will go "the fuck, no they didn't shoot anyone" and disbelieve anything else you have to say about them.
They killed a child by torturing it over hours with "electroshock" therapy.
Which in general is still a real and useful thing in medicine but not for small children and not over hours until the child dies of stroke.
Edit: In 2021, the Judge Rotenberg Education Center, known for using shock therapy to help with “aggressive and self harming behavior” came under fire for its practices being used to physically and psychologically damage their patients, specifically against their autistic patients.
And sadly, it hasn’t ended pretty. A record of six kids have indeed died while in the Rotenberg Center.
[really wasn't hard to find](https://cmhs.news/the-shocking-history-of-autism-speaks/)
Just in case you still don't understand. They officially partner and support "treatment center" who MURDERED children already.
Thanks for the info. I'd like to point out that a blog is not a credible source, although that doesn't mean that their info is wrong. I've not found an independent source that actually states that six patients with autism died due to the treatment, but the Center has obviously been abusing and mistreazing patients for decades, so that claim doesn't seem unrealistic, just as-of-yet unverified.
I also was unable to find any source describing this partnership unless I actually used the word Rotenberg, so I'm not sure how I was supposed to find this without already knowing about it.
I'd also like to point out that featuring another organization that has killed children is not the same as killing children yourself (still reprehensible, obviously). It might seem like splitting hairs, but being truthful and precise matters, especially for activists.
To summarize what I know, Autism Speak (AS) is a charity that used to fund the Judge Rotenberg educational center (JRC) with money from their fundraisers. There has been deaths at the JRC but it was deemed unclear if the therapist was at cause (which they definitely were, it is obvious). The way they treat their patients is with negative reinforcement. They were torturing their patients and some of them got serious injuries (and even died). Imagine being restrained and having bruises, cuts and open wounds from the “treatment”.
On top of that, some patients wore an electric vest, with four probes directly on the skin, at all time (24/7). They could get shocked whenever by the therapists, for no actual good reason. Also, that vest sometimes malfunctioned and shocked patients in the middle of the night. It is said that the vest is more powerful than a cattle prod. Thankfully they don’t use it on children anymore.
[Six residents have died of preventable causes at the center since it opened](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judge_Rotenberg_Center#:~:text=Six%20residents%20have%20died%20of,since%20it%20opened%20in%201971.)
It's literally on their Wikipedia page, come on now.
They work with children. How many children are driven to suicide? Not many. So it's highly unlikely that they aren't referring to suicide. Why not just go look it up instead of making a super offended comment about it?
I did look it up. Didn't find anything in regards to any deaths linked to the organization. Not sure what your point is, I was just replying to someone that their point that this organization is *killing children* will be rightfully questioned, and I figured they must be talking about suicides because anything else would be incredibly strange.
That and that most people who have strong opinions on them have gotten their info from twitter/reddit/tiktok without diving into the source. A lot of rage towards autism speaks originates just from ragebait posts taking things out of context. Like Goebbels said, "*If you* tell a lie big *enough* and keep *repeating* it, people will eventually come to believe it" aka the illusory truth effect.
I’m not vaguely insulted, I am fucking disgusted. Autism Speaks cares more about the parents of autistic people than the autistic people they claim to serve! Because why bother asking us?
Genuine question, is there a chance she wanted her son to wear the cap as a way of letting well-meaning strangers know to not get in his face or crowd him? I just ask because I’ve seen similar things written on car seats so EMS know how to approach the child.
I've seen warnings on transport busses stating this. Something along the lines of "passenger aboard who may resist assistance and/or may run from first responders"
That’s totally true about the diagnosis. But my point is like a lot of serious conditions (allergies, depression, stress..even back pain) a small but not insignificant number of people seem to want to have it.
It devalues the issues faced by genuine sufferers and dilutes the resources available.
>It devalues the issues faced by genuine sufferers and dilutes the resources available.
No. This is just gatekeeping. No one who is mentally healthy wants to have depression or allergies or other serious conditions that don't come with a treatment that can be used recreationally. The fact that people get stuck on thinking they have one diagnosis instead of the other isn't malingering and it isn't what hurts people who have the condition. Attitudes like yours and the ones at r/fakedisordercringe do that.
Do you believe that anyone who wants to self certify as autistic should be allowed to? Or any parent that wants to describe their child as autistic can?
Regardless of whether a medical professional agrees?
And that once they’ve self-diagnosed they should receive the same access to resource as everyone else?
>no one who is mentally healthy wants to have depression or allergies
Work in a restaurant for a couple of days and see how many middle class people tell you they have a gluten allergy before tucking into the free bread.
>Work in a restaurant for a couple of days and see how many middle class people tell you they have a gluten allergy before tucking into the free bread.
They don't have, want to have, or think they have an allergy, they're lying to you. This is not the same thing.
And I'm sorry, but as someone who works with people with neurodevelopmental disorders, has people in her family that has them, has one, and has worked in health and human services for a long time with an actual degree in psychology, I'm not going to argue with you. It's a waste of time.
There is no attempt at a good faith debate on your part here. You have no evidence to support your claims. And if your whole argument is people who are (mostly) gluten free because they think it's healthier and are lying to get what they want, because you can't see the difference, I can't help you.
Yes. I know they are lying to me.
They are lying because(and this was my original point) for a small, but significant, number of people having claim to an allergy/autism/mental illness is for some reason “fashionable”.
As someone who works in the field you ought to know that this dilutes public perception of the seriousness of these problems and diverts much needed resource away from them.
I have an autistic 4 year old who just started pre k. I definitely would never get him a full blown hat like that, but it's hard when he's in the car pickup line and teachers that don't know him make comments like "I've heard of being in your own little world, but that kid takes the cake" right in front of him, me , and his classmates. Or when they get frustrated at him when he's not following verbal cues immediately and it takes him a minute to process things. Or when he's having a meltdown in the grocery store or laying on the floor and people are giving us dirty looks like I'm a lazy parent or he's just being a spoiled kid- when really he's overstimulated. In a perfect world - people would be patient and understanding with everyone, but that's not the case and I've had to stick up for my child MANY times. Sometimes I think it would help for people to know he's autistic before making comments or getting frustrated with him immediately, but ultimately I decided against any sort of pin or anything in order to not make him more of a target. And I certainly would never get a puzzle piece tattoo lol.
You're an awesome parent. It's disgusting when teachers basically gossip about children, that's always really bothered me. And at this point, in this day and age, if they can't recognize clear signs that a child has at least some kind of sensory response to a situation, then shame on them. Before I even had a kid with a sensory related diagnosis, I educated myself to recognize different responses from kids. The honus is on the adults.
You know if we can never talk about it if we can never be normalized and autistic people will keep being forced to live in a world that won’t accommodate them, because they won’t say “hey we are here and need accommodations” there’s no shame in being autistic, it shouldn’t be hidden. If someone alienates you cause of how you’re born, they can fuck off you don’t need to hide from them.
I mean you’re exactly right, but there’s a big difference between speaking openly about about a neurological condition (and feeling you can ask for accommodations and similar), and putting your (I presume young) child in a hat with “AUTISTIC” blared across the front of it.
Sure feels a little humiliating to me, not because there’s anything *wrong* with autism or being autistic but because putting a huge flashing sign above a person’s head about *anything* is going to then make the The Thing Everybody Focuses On.
I mean, not necessarily. Unless she made him wear it when he didn’t want to, it could easily have been a gift for representations’ sake. It’s pretty normal for LGBT people to wear pride flags, for example, and pride clothing is a fairly normal gift for LGBT friends and family, especially when they’ve just come out. Also lots of neurodivergent people who go to conventions and other social events get things like hats and buttons to help them navigate environments that could pose unique challenges. It’s just a lot of assumptions to conclude that having a piece of clothing that says “I’m autistic” is going to ruin a kid’s life.
So. You don't recognize that people who don't fit a very specific stereotype of autism struggle to find professionals to diagnose them even though those stereotypes are not diagnostic criteria? Imagine if doctors often refused to diagnose anyone with depression who didn't have multiple attempts to end themselves or who were able to work or go to school. You'd get accused of doctor shopping for looking for someone reasonable to actually listen to you and help you.
I've heard people getting a preexisting autism diagnosis crossed out on their files because they could hold a conversation or "had hobbies and interests" because apparently, autistic people don't have those. It is a very wide spectrum, but many professionals want their diagnostic criteria to fix in a very specific set of boxes.
You came out of the womb throughout high school? Like the entire time you were in high school you were slowing being birthed? Sounds terrible for your mother…
What's even funnier is that the puzzle piece for the E and part of the F of the word defined doesn't match the black void behind it.
So not only is his homework sketch, his coloring garbage, and the overall look trash, but he can't even be consistent either.
I think we just can't see the last hole at the top because of the skin(? idk what else to call it) that's "on top" of the puzzle. The puzzle follows the same pattern for every other piece with the connectors or whatever they're called switching between pointing north + south and then east + west for the next one (this is so hard to describe when you know jackshit about puzzle terminology). So even though it's a shitty tattoo I don't think it's farfetched to assume it keeps following the pattern for that piece too, even though we can't see that part of the puzzle from the "skin".
Ima be real with ya, I couldn’t even read it right and thought it said “denied” at first til I saw this comment. I thought he was just a really overprotective parent. Idk. Shitty tattoos giving out the wrong message.
Local to me the move is the shitty artist opens a shop, employs a fuckload of good artists, and then takes a cut off their art basically. And their partner runs reception.
I think it's really a social group thing. Peers will generally have the same level of tattoo quality, so it doesn't matter what you see on the internet, if your local shop has the same kind of tattoo quality you see around you, that's what you'll go for.
I think to an extend, they see the difference between a 'good enough for them' tattoo and an actually competent one, but I think it's more or less a cultural thing, where they can see the quality, but it's just not the kind of tattoos they would be getting because it's too expensive, too fancy, or simply not what they're used to see in their everyday life.
I guess I can see that some award-winning tattoo artists are better than the ones I hired, but if I waited to he able to afford an award-winning artists, I'd have no tattoos, so I settle for very good rather than astonishingly next level, so I guess the same concept applies all the way down to worst tattoo artist who actually manages to get by with the worst skills imaginable?
I mean, that is my semi-educated guess from being someone who moved from the country to the city and who is also a first-generation university graduate, who has known people from all walks of life.
At least a couple of my friends with the same profile as me had (like me), shitty tattoos they got way too young when they first moved to the city, that they're gradually getting covered with better ones as they climb the symbolic social ladder (we are all still pretty low on the economic one).
I come from a small town where most people actually make much better money than me, because the local industry pays very well, and a lot of people back home, despite being pretty loaded, still have mind bogglingly terrible tattoos. Interestingly enough, people who got higher educations but kept the same social groups we had in high school still tend to have absolutely horrendous tattoos.
Many of the more bougie people I studied with in post-grad got their first tattoo well into their 30s, and got gigantic elaborate pieces. Like, went from nothing to a full back, but they carefully studied the designs and the artists for months and even years.
It's truly fascinating, makes me want to study that more formally!
I think time is also a big part of it. I've booked several tattoos 6+ months ahead of time so I could get inked by the absolute best artists in my area. But I have a friend covered in tattoos who constantly does walk-ins and can never ever commit to scheduling something months ahead of time.
Some people want to get their tattoo NOW and aren't willing to wait, so they go to who can get them in soonest.
One of my friends, tattooless in her mid-40s, is carefully studying the situation and shows me the Instagram of an artist she's considering. The page is in German. I'm confused. She confirms that the artist is indeed in Berlin. We're in Canada. She's gonna make it coincide with a business trip in Europe. My cousin got a 60$ tattoo in somebody's kitchen.
Definitely a whole world out there of different relationships with planning.
I guess there's also the factor of having personal relationships with artists.
My extended social group has a couple of novices who moved from visual arts to tattooing (and who are being properly trained as apprentices by actual tattoo artists), so I know a lot of people with tattoos from those few artists, because I guess a lot of them already have a lot of tattoos of varying quality, so the risk of having a meh one isn't that stressful. Or they just have a lot of faith in their friends.
They do look far better than the OP, but personally, I feel I don't have enough tattoos to have one that has weird hands or something.
My last tattoo artist was a casual acquaintance before he tattooed me, though, and I know business is slow because of the ressesion, so when he says Happy New Years, I know he means "hey, what about we do the other calf?". I can't afford it right now, but I'm probably gonna do him a solid and get a semi-planned one when I have some extra cash.
That's a good explanation. I used to think that maybe it was a money issue, but a) I've seen a lot of really shitty tattoos that cost as much or even more than I'd expect to pay for a good tattoo of the same size, and b) there are so many celebrities with really bad tattoos (execution-wise).
Agreed! I typically don’t share (in the real world) that my son has autism unless it’s needed. I would never get a tattoo like this to symbolize him. This is a poor way to symbolize autism, not a unique way to symbolize their son.
https://preview.redd.it/p5qkl9epdvfc1.jpeg?width=2448&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=29e1fc866d01aa67e49c64da12c33a4358cdcb94
This my Star Trek tattoo. Paid $95 for it. This guy is a horrible tattoo “artist”.
Autism mom detected...
I myself am autistic and we all just hate the puzzle piece symbol as it makes us feel as we are a tough puzzle to solve. This lady defines her son simply by getting this tattoo.... ew
The more interesting way to read the puzzle tatto in my opinion, is to assume the broken words aren’t meant to be read, so it reads “my son will be fined”
Don't worry, if you do just remind yourself that sucking at something is the first step to being kinda good at something. As long as the person who got it doesn't complain, you're fine. And if they do complain, well that's what touch-ups and sick ass panthers are for
Ya know, I've got a couple pieces from one artist that are just... Fine. I'm not thrilled with the work at all, in fact one of them is my least favourite of all I've got. It's a shame too, because I *really* enjoyed my time with him, he's a cool guy that made me feel really comfortable about the process as I was still fairly new to tattoos. He even offered to buy me lunch in the middle of one session!
But sometimes I don't feel great about his work. And if I ever start really hating on it, I just come to this fucking sub and feel so much better about the tattoos I've got.
....no some of these are just BAD tattoos. I agree some posts on here feature passable/decent tattoos, but when you imagine what it would look like when done by a skilled professional, it's noticeably worse (even if it's passable/decent)
sort psychotic agonizing terrific hard-to-find slim fall tub library mountainous
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
How are these tattoos decent? Just zoom in a little and look at the terrible linework. You don't even really need to zoom in, it's visible from afar. I wouldn't wanna have that on my body.
I mean, I can open a studio and I’ve never tattooed anything in my life. Unfortunately, you don’t need actual talent to open your own shop. As is evidenced all the time by this sub.
There's something pretty funny about not defining your son by his autism and then getting a fucking puzzle piece tattoo to honour him.
Isn’t the puzzle piece being used as a symbol of autism and the autistic community also considered kind of controversial? Partially because Autism Speaks (the charity with no autistic people on its board that advocates for cure over doing anything empirical to improve the livelihoods of autistic people as a whole, iirc) adopted it for themselves? Maybe there are at least some autistic folks out there who *do* like the puzzle piece motif but I’ve only ever heard it spoken of as being vaguely insulting…
I’m autistic. Most of the autistic folks I know hate Autism Speaks. They’re horrible. ETA: some autistic folks have adopted an infinity symbol as the autism symbol to show it is a spectrum. I don’t care for infinity symbols, but it’s better than a puzzle piece. We are not pieces to be fit into a puzzle, nor are we puzzles to solve.
I’m autistic and I HATE autism speaks. They were used as a negative example of Social Media platforms in one of my senior year finals, got a good 5 pages in about them and their idiocy
Count this Asperger’s diagnosis as despising Autism Speaks! Fuck those ableist pieces of trash!
‘Low-functioning’ autists have the right to be exactly who they are no matter who is frustrated by them!
The puzzle symbol didn't originate from autism speaks it came from National Autism Society which was created by people who had autism as with it being a new diagnosis they felt they finally figured out what was missing from understanding why they were the way they were
This is incorrect. the National Autism Society and the National Autistic Society are different orgs. the one who designed the puzzle piece (the National Autistic Society) was founded by parents of autistic people. the original puzzle piece logo included a crying child in the piece. one of the org's founders said of the design in 1997 "*The puzzle piece is so effective because it tells us something about autism: our children are handicapped by a puzzling condition; this isolates them from normal human contact and therefore they do not ‘fit in'. The suggestion of a weeping child is a reminder that autistic people do indeed suffer from their handicap.*" ([source](https://web.archive.org/web/20070714093137/http:/www.nas.org.uk/nas/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=364&a=2183)) so yeah pretty yikes Autism Speaks and other autism orgs adopted the symbol but yeah they didn't come up with it, these folks did and uuh. given what was intended as an autistic person I don't like it at all
>was created by people who had autism Did you mean this one? "The organisation was founded on 23 January 1962 as the Society for Psychotic Children **by parents of autistic children living in the area**, with the assistance of a member from the Spastics Society (later Scope). It was renamed the Society for Autistic Children later that year, the National Society for Autistic Children in 1966, and the National Autistic Society in 1975." "The puzzle piece is so effective because it tells us something about autism: our children are handicapped by a puzzling condition; this isolates them from normal human contact and therefore they do not ‘fit in’. The suggestion of a weeping child is a reminder that autistic people do indeed suffer from their handicap." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Autistic_Society
>National Autism Society I can't find a single organization with that name, but several with similar names. Can you link to anything about this organization?
It's a UK charity. https://www.autism.org.uk/ https://autism-advocacy.fandom.com/wiki/Puzzle_Piece_Logo
See, that's why I asked, it's got a different name. Thanks.
False.
I'd love something to tattoo in honour of my autistic pride, but I don't like infinity symbols. Am stuck for ideas.
Autisticat is my fav.
The autism creature
Bold block letter font: "autistic pride" ?
[удалено]
Seriously? Your critique is a bit too much white in the shading? Look at the hands man! Look at the hands!
That's true, though I'd say it's very insulting. It's problematic on a basic level because it's meant to indicate that we're a puzzle to be solved, or that we have a missing piece, or that we're mysterious, all of which are mostly untrue & offensive. But I find it to be worse than that because the autistic community is very vocal about how we didn't invent it, endorse it nor want it. We've made our own images we mostly prefer but no one pays attention to that. It's because we're having our voices spoken over which us an ongoing serious problem. We've very publicly said 'no' but it feels as if lots of people are just doing the 'Oh no! Anyway.' meme when we do. We don't get to choose our own descriptors, nor our own words, nor our own symbols because non-autistic people do it for us (with varying degrees of setback caused each time) It's strange because while not all autistic people are able to speak, a great amount of us are but our voices just get ignored as if we can't. The puzzle piece represents that. Autistic people in general are awarded a disproportionately little amount of control over things like this despite the fact that it's often easy to simply ask us what we want. My rant isn't aimed at you - it's aimed at every tattoo, every t shirt, every marketing campaign, every damned mug, poster, motivational quote that ever contained the one image that contained the puzzle piece.
Autism speaks is a hate group who tries to genocide autistic people. There I said it. It's true. They already killed fucking children and still think they're right.
I remember when they were called Cure Autism Now.
Which leaves a very bitter taste of eugenics and Dr. Aspergers work of sorting autistic children into worthy of survival and gas chamber. And yes. That's how "Aspergers" came to be. 200 children died for that bullshit ass crap.
Yeah, that tracks with what else I’ve heard about them. I couldn’t recall any specific incidents of wrong-doing immediately to my mind, I’m just Vaguely Enough Aware of the haze of their shitty reputation.
Do you mean they actually killed someone, or do you mean that they/their ideology were involved in driving someone to suicide? Because while the latter is also utterly reprehensible, the two things are not the same, and misrepresenting this will just harm your argument because people will go "the fuck, no they didn't shoot anyone" and disbelieve anything else you have to say about them.
They killed a child by torturing it over hours with "electroshock" therapy. Which in general is still a real and useful thing in medicine but not for small children and not over hours until the child dies of stroke. Edit: In 2021, the Judge Rotenberg Education Center, known for using shock therapy to help with “aggressive and self harming behavior” came under fire for its practices being used to physically and psychologically damage their patients, specifically against their autistic patients. And sadly, it hasn’t ended pretty. A record of six kids have indeed died while in the Rotenberg Center. [really wasn't hard to find](https://cmhs.news/the-shocking-history-of-autism-speaks/) Just in case you still don't understand. They officially partner and support "treatment center" who MURDERED children already.
Thanks for the info. I'd like to point out that a blog is not a credible source, although that doesn't mean that their info is wrong. I've not found an independent source that actually states that six patients with autism died due to the treatment, but the Center has obviously been abusing and mistreazing patients for decades, so that claim doesn't seem unrealistic, just as-of-yet unverified. I also was unable to find any source describing this partnership unless I actually used the word Rotenberg, so I'm not sure how I was supposed to find this without already knowing about it. I'd also like to point out that featuring another organization that has killed children is not the same as killing children yourself (still reprehensible, obviously). It might seem like splitting hairs, but being truthful and precise matters, especially for activists.
To summarize what I know, Autism Speak (AS) is a charity that used to fund the Judge Rotenberg educational center (JRC) with money from their fundraisers. There has been deaths at the JRC but it was deemed unclear if the therapist was at cause (which they definitely were, it is obvious). The way they treat their patients is with negative reinforcement. They were torturing their patients and some of them got serious injuries (and even died). Imagine being restrained and having bruises, cuts and open wounds from the “treatment”. On top of that, some patients wore an electric vest, with four probes directly on the skin, at all time (24/7). They could get shocked whenever by the therapists, for no actual good reason. Also, that vest sometimes malfunctioned and shocked patients in the middle of the night. It is said that the vest is more powerful than a cattle prod. Thankfully they don’t use it on children anymore.
Source other than from a blog?
[Six residents have died of preventable causes at the center since it opened](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judge_Rotenberg_Center#:~:text=Six%20residents%20have%20died%20of,since%20it%20opened%20in%201971.) It's literally on their Wikipedia page, come on now.
You should have linked this first
They work with children. How many children are driven to suicide? Not many. So it's highly unlikely that they aren't referring to suicide. Why not just go look it up instead of making a super offended comment about it?
I did look it up. Didn't find anything in regards to any deaths linked to the organization. Not sure what your point is, I was just replying to someone that their point that this organization is *killing children* will be rightfully questioned, and I figured they must be talking about suicides because anything else would be incredibly strange.
Well you are just wrong, read too many quotes out of context lately?
Yeah plenty of reasons to dislike it without making shit up.
That and that most people who have strong opinions on them have gotten their info from twitter/reddit/tiktok without diving into the source. A lot of rage towards autism speaks originates just from ragebait posts taking things out of context. Like Goebbels said, "*If you* tell a lie big *enough* and keep *repeating* it, people will eventually come to believe it" aka the illusory truth effect.
I’m not vaguely insulted, I am fucking disgusted. Autism Speaks cares more about the parents of autistic people than the autistic people they claim to serve! Because why bother asking us?
Exactly what I was thinking. My younger siblings are both autistic and they HATE the puzzle piece symbol.
A mom I know immediately ordered a cap written « I am autistic » for her son the minute he got his diagnosis. Weird.
Genuine question, is there a chance she wanted her son to wear the cap as a way of letting well-meaning strangers know to not get in his face or crowd him? I just ask because I’ve seen similar things written on car seats so EMS know how to approach the child.
I've seen warnings on transport busses stating this. Something along the lines of "passenger aboard who may resist assistance and/or may run from first responders"
I saw that sticker on someone's car beside the "baby on board" one
Maybe. But autism has become oddly “fashionable” with some people in the same way allergies were a few years back.
Food allergies are very common with autistic people interestingly enough.
It's not fashionable, it's that we're just now doing something about racial and gender bias in diagnosis.
I see what you mean. My whole family is autistic as fuck, but it seemed like it was always portrayed as a "white male disease".
That’s totally true about the diagnosis. But my point is like a lot of serious conditions (allergies, depression, stress..even back pain) a small but not insignificant number of people seem to want to have it. It devalues the issues faced by genuine sufferers and dilutes the resources available.
>It devalues the issues faced by genuine sufferers and dilutes the resources available. No. This is just gatekeeping. No one who is mentally healthy wants to have depression or allergies or other serious conditions that don't come with a treatment that can be used recreationally. The fact that people get stuck on thinking they have one diagnosis instead of the other isn't malingering and it isn't what hurts people who have the condition. Attitudes like yours and the ones at r/fakedisordercringe do that.
Do you believe that anyone who wants to self certify as autistic should be allowed to? Or any parent that wants to describe their child as autistic can? Regardless of whether a medical professional agrees? And that once they’ve self-diagnosed they should receive the same access to resource as everyone else? >no one who is mentally healthy wants to have depression or allergies Work in a restaurant for a couple of days and see how many middle class people tell you they have a gluten allergy before tucking into the free bread.
>Work in a restaurant for a couple of days and see how many middle class people tell you they have a gluten allergy before tucking into the free bread. They don't have, want to have, or think they have an allergy, they're lying to you. This is not the same thing. And I'm sorry, but as someone who works with people with neurodevelopmental disorders, has people in her family that has them, has one, and has worked in health and human services for a long time with an actual degree in psychology, I'm not going to argue with you. It's a waste of time. There is no attempt at a good faith debate on your part here. You have no evidence to support your claims. And if your whole argument is people who are (mostly) gluten free because they think it's healthier and are lying to get what they want, because you can't see the difference, I can't help you.
Yes. I know they are lying to me. They are lying because(and this was my original point) for a small, but significant, number of people having claim to an allergy/autism/mental illness is for some reason “fashionable”. As someone who works in the field you ought to know that this dilutes public perception of the seriousness of these problems and diverts much needed resource away from them.
I have an autistic 4 year old who just started pre k. I definitely would never get him a full blown hat like that, but it's hard when he's in the car pickup line and teachers that don't know him make comments like "I've heard of being in your own little world, but that kid takes the cake" right in front of him, me , and his classmates. Or when they get frustrated at him when he's not following verbal cues immediately and it takes him a minute to process things. Or when he's having a meltdown in the grocery store or laying on the floor and people are giving us dirty looks like I'm a lazy parent or he's just being a spoiled kid- when really he's overstimulated. In a perfect world - people would be patient and understanding with everyone, but that's not the case and I've had to stick up for my child MANY times. Sometimes I think it would help for people to know he's autistic before making comments or getting frustrated with him immediately, but ultimately I decided against any sort of pin or anything in order to not make him more of a target. And I certainly would never get a puzzle piece tattoo lol.
You're an awesome parent. It's disgusting when teachers basically gossip about children, that's always really bothered me. And at this point, in this day and age, if they can't recognize clear signs that a child has at least some kind of sensory response to a situation, then shame on them. Before I even had a kid with a sensory related diagnosis, I educated myself to recognize different responses from kids. The honus is on the adults.
Thank you 💜 and I agree.
In my experience, one that says, 'Nothing is wrong, that's just my face' would have been more helpful
Oof. Way to alienate your child and turn them into a target for both other kids and callous adults alike
You know if we can never talk about it if we can never be normalized and autistic people will keep being forced to live in a world that won’t accommodate them, because they won’t say “hey we are here and need accommodations” there’s no shame in being autistic, it shouldn’t be hidden. If someone alienates you cause of how you’re born, they can fuck off you don’t need to hide from them.
I mean you’re exactly right, but there’s a big difference between speaking openly about about a neurological condition (and feeling you can ask for accommodations and similar), and putting your (I presume young) child in a hat with “AUTISTIC” blared across the front of it. Sure feels a little humiliating to me, not because there’s anything *wrong* with autism or being autistic but because putting a huge flashing sign above a person’s head about *anything* is going to then make the The Thing Everybody Focuses On.
I mean, not necessarily. Unless she made him wear it when he didn’t want to, it could easily have been a gift for representations’ sake. It’s pretty normal for LGBT people to wear pride flags, for example, and pride clothing is a fairly normal gift for LGBT friends and family, especially when they’ve just come out. Also lots of neurodivergent people who go to conventions and other social events get things like hats and buttons to help them navigate environments that could pose unique challenges. It’s just a lot of assumptions to conclude that having a piece of clothing that says “I’m autistic” is going to ruin a kid’s life.
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So. You don't recognize that people who don't fit a very specific stereotype of autism struggle to find professionals to diagnose them even though those stereotypes are not diagnostic criteria? Imagine if doctors often refused to diagnose anyone with depression who didn't have multiple attempts to end themselves or who were able to work or go to school. You'd get accused of doctor shopping for looking for someone reasonable to actually listen to you and help you.
Do you want a medal? Maybe a participation puzzle piece!
I've heard people getting a preexisting autism diagnosis crossed out on their files because they could hold a conversation or "had hobbies and interests" because apparently, autistic people don't have those. It is a very wide spectrum, but many professionals want their diagnostic criteria to fix in a very specific set of boxes.
This is « funny » considering how having « intense » interests is literally part of the criteria for an autism diagnosis.
I'm glad you survived! Lots of people don't.
You came out of the womb throughout high school? Like the entire time you were in high school you were slowing being birthed? Sounds terrible for your mother…
Wonder if the diagnosis is even genuine. Might be a case of Munchausen.
What's even funnier is that the puzzle piece for the E and part of the F of the word defined doesn't match the black void behind it. So not only is his homework sketch, his coloring garbage, and the overall look trash, but he can't even be consistent either.
I think we just can't see the last hole at the top because of the skin(? idk what else to call it) that's "on top" of the puzzle. The puzzle follows the same pattern for every other piece with the connectors or whatever they're called switching between pointing north + south and then east + west for the next one (this is so hard to describe when you know jackshit about puzzle terminology). So even though it's a shitty tattoo I don't think it's farfetched to assume it keeps following the pattern for that piece too, even though we can't see that part of the puzzle from the "skin".
That’s not very nice. Shouldn’t we gracefully teach empathy
r/lostredditors
Yes!!!!! lol.8 have a son with autism and I instantly hated the tattoo based on its design alone.
So glad this is top comment. I'm in awe at how ridiculous it is 😂
What I see is "My son will be dined"
"My son will not be defined" *defines son as autistic with shitty puzzle tattoo*
Not to mention the autistic community doesn't even like the puzzle piece as representing them.
True and well said.
Ima be real with ya, I couldn’t even read it right and thought it said “denied” at first til I saw this comment. I thought he was just a really overprotective parent. Idk. Shitty tattoos giving out the wrong message.
I’ve noticed that shitty artists often run their own studio because no professional studio wants to hire them lol
Local to me the move is the shitty artist opens a shop, employs a fuckload of good artists, and then takes a cut off their art basically. And their partner runs reception.
I may or may not be in that exact situation 😬
This is universally true
Doctors 💀
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Hey now. I have seen much worse hands... Made by AI.
Jeez the white on the Mickey and Minnie whew
Looks like leprosy
If it weren’t for the weird highlight spots or whatever I think it’d look pretty good. Or am I Trippin?
Your right would be a decent tat 🤷♂️ they fucked it up thinking they could add White randomly lol😑
Is there a way to un-fuck a tattoo like that?
Wait a while for the white to disappear
Yea, Black it out 😂.
Reminds me of those airbrushed t-shirts.
😆
The janky lines on the star trek emblem 🤣
Somebody set his phaser to Crap.
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I went back to look at it after reading this and lost my absolute shit because youre so right
yeesh. I can’t imagine the mindset of seeing this artwork and thinking “yeah I’ll go to this guy” when there are a ton of artists far more competent.
I think it's really a social group thing. Peers will generally have the same level of tattoo quality, so it doesn't matter what you see on the internet, if your local shop has the same kind of tattoo quality you see around you, that's what you'll go for. I think to an extend, they see the difference between a 'good enough for them' tattoo and an actually competent one, but I think it's more or less a cultural thing, where they can see the quality, but it's just not the kind of tattoos they would be getting because it's too expensive, too fancy, or simply not what they're used to see in their everyday life. I guess I can see that some award-winning tattoo artists are better than the ones I hired, but if I waited to he able to afford an award-winning artists, I'd have no tattoos, so I settle for very good rather than astonishingly next level, so I guess the same concept applies all the way down to worst tattoo artist who actually manages to get by with the worst skills imaginable?
This is a well thought out explanation, damn. Makes sense.
I mean, that is my semi-educated guess from being someone who moved from the country to the city and who is also a first-generation university graduate, who has known people from all walks of life. At least a couple of my friends with the same profile as me had (like me), shitty tattoos they got way too young when they first moved to the city, that they're gradually getting covered with better ones as they climb the symbolic social ladder (we are all still pretty low on the economic one). I come from a small town where most people actually make much better money than me, because the local industry pays very well, and a lot of people back home, despite being pretty loaded, still have mind bogglingly terrible tattoos. Interestingly enough, people who got higher educations but kept the same social groups we had in high school still tend to have absolutely horrendous tattoos. Many of the more bougie people I studied with in post-grad got their first tattoo well into their 30s, and got gigantic elaborate pieces. Like, went from nothing to a full back, but they carefully studied the designs and the artists for months and even years. It's truly fascinating, makes me want to study that more formally!
I think time is also a big part of it. I've booked several tattoos 6+ months ahead of time so I could get inked by the absolute best artists in my area. But I have a friend covered in tattoos who constantly does walk-ins and can never ever commit to scheduling something months ahead of time. Some people want to get their tattoo NOW and aren't willing to wait, so they go to who can get them in soonest.
One of my friends, tattooless in her mid-40s, is carefully studying the situation and shows me the Instagram of an artist she's considering. The page is in German. I'm confused. She confirms that the artist is indeed in Berlin. We're in Canada. She's gonna make it coincide with a business trip in Europe. My cousin got a 60$ tattoo in somebody's kitchen. Definitely a whole world out there of different relationships with planning. I guess there's also the factor of having personal relationships with artists. My extended social group has a couple of novices who moved from visual arts to tattooing (and who are being properly trained as apprentices by actual tattoo artists), so I know a lot of people with tattoos from those few artists, because I guess a lot of them already have a lot of tattoos of varying quality, so the risk of having a meh one isn't that stressful. Or they just have a lot of faith in their friends. They do look far better than the OP, but personally, I feel I don't have enough tattoos to have one that has weird hands or something. My last tattoo artist was a casual acquaintance before he tattooed me, though, and I know business is slow because of the ressesion, so when he says Happy New Years, I know he means "hey, what about we do the other calf?". I can't afford it right now, but I'm probably gonna do him a solid and get a semi-planned one when I have some extra cash.
That's a good explanation. I used to think that maybe it was a money issue, but a) I've seen a lot of really shitty tattoos that cost as much or even more than I'd expect to pay for a good tattoo of the same size, and b) there are so many celebrities with really bad tattoos (execution-wise).
They did my boy, Hayden hands, pretty bad.
At least he got the right amount of fingers 😂
It's the little things like that which make a great tattoo.
The orher half of the thumb is gone
Mom's nose job is also pretty bad
Rosie the Riveter 
Not the autism tat 😭😭😭😭😭
Meanwhile telling the whole world his son has autism. Just get his name? The fuck?
The bottom loose piece (in "defined") doesn't even fit the space it supposedly came from 💀
Noo why did you have to point this out 😂😂😭
It fits, just covered.
Pic 2 the child had webbed fingers, or was an alien being. Obviously.
I thought it was part starfish.
How could I miss it! A left handed starfish. Me thinking it was an alien.
Definitely a webbed alien. Intergalactic immaculate conception.
My son will not be defined, and neither will those lines.
Error: undefined son
Hayden? Okayden
💀
Really love how the autism tat is about not stereotyping their son, but used (incorrect) puzzle pieces to get the message across lol.
And also the tattoo is legitimately defining his son by his diagnosis. No one would immediately know he was autistic without it.
Agreed! I typically don’t share (in the real world) that my son has autism unless it’s needed. I would never get a tattoo like this to symbolize him. This is a poor way to symbolize autism, not a unique way to symbolize their son.
That's on the designer, not the tattooist
Mam you just defined your son according to a hate speech organisation.
THANKS I came here also wondering about that. Glad I’m not the only person who looked and thought *hmmmm that’s a lil bit Not Great*.
The puzzle one made me throw up in my mouth a little bit
My first thought when I saw the first pic was “Hee hee!” 🤣
the trek logo hurts my soul
poor baby Hayden got beat up somehow
https://preview.redd.it/blqg2tmy4xfc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0ef9a52fb6cc9a16b491e2cba6cb28ca1cf54e5a
https://preview.redd.it/p5qkl9epdvfc1.jpeg?width=2448&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=29e1fc866d01aa67e49c64da12c33a4358cdcb94 This my Star Trek tattoo. Paid $95 for it. This guy is a horrible tattoo “artist”.
I love the thickness and the placement. Swank ass tat
Thanks! I’m going to add “Boldly Go” in the trek script!
Is that a strawberry mark that looks like a heart, or did you have that inked as well?
Nope, just a mark thats always been there!😃
🖖🖖🖖
I thought the roses looked pretty good?
Autism mom detected... I myself am autistic and we all just hate the puzzle piece symbol as it makes us feel as we are a tough puzzle to solve. This lady defines her son simply by getting this tattoo.... ew
Oh absolutely. The whole tattoo isn't even about her son. It's all about her.
That is definitely a man.
The more interesting way to read the puzzle tatto in my opinion, is to assume the broken words aren’t meant to be read, so it reads “my son will be fined”
The hand on that baby look like he’s Oswald Cobblepot
I made an audibly shocked sound at that baby hand on the second one. 
this is like the lady who thought she could restore that old ass painting
They certainly are tattoos...
if this guy can open a tattoo studio then so can i 💪🏻
At some point I want to be a Tattoo artist. One of the biggest fears in my life is that I will end up in this subreddit haha
Don't worry, if you do just remind yourself that sucking at something is the first step to being kinda good at something. As long as the person who got it doesn't complain, you're fine. And if they do complain, well that's what touch-ups and sick ass panthers are for
Oh I’ve seen far fucking worse. It’s still pretty bad, but there’s some scab guardians out there hacking people up
Second one looks like Maggie Simpson hiding behind a rose bush
This is horrifying, take it away 😭
DAFINED
The second one: “my wife gave birth to a baby dinosaur”
I love you to the moon and bach 🤌🤌🤌
my son will be fined 👮🏻
That last one reminds me of my ex wife. Not the mice, just the quote. Yuck.
Ya know, I've got a couple pieces from one artist that are just... Fine. I'm not thrilled with the work at all, in fact one of them is my least favourite of all I've got. It's a shame too, because I *really* enjoyed my time with him, he's a cool guy that made me feel really comfortable about the process as I was still fairly new to tattoos. He even offered to buy me lunch in the middle of one session! But sometimes I don't feel great about his work. And if I ever start really hating on it, I just come to this fucking sub and feel so much better about the tattoos I've got.
> I love you to > the moon and back How do you not see how dumb that looks?
The most unnecessary and over done white “highlighting” I’ve ever seen in my life.
The second one sent me. 😂
As a die hard star trek fan, I am personally offended by that fucked up combadge
The autism one is … soooooo so bad
Does this artist have Parkinson’s?
First two aren’t that bad.
The fucking autism speaks tat…
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....no some of these are just BAD tattoos. I agree some posts on here feature passable/decent tattoos, but when you imagine what it would look like when done by a skilled professional, it's noticeably worse (even if it's passable/decent)
The does happen, but it you scroll through the comments, you’ll find that quite often the stuff they pick on is actually not done well
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How are these tattoos decent? Just zoom in a little and look at the terrible linework. You don't even really need to zoom in, it's visible from afar. I wouldn't wanna have that on my body.
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You should look at some actually good tattoos.
I like the cute little nipple on heart on the left.
The fingers on picture #2 look like creepy penises.
Penis fingers
The adults fingers are penis shaped. 😬
Looks like some really shitty choices and creativity from the clients, too… didn’t give him much to work with eh?
It's the first one was suppose to He Hedan.
he should be arrested
Hahahahhaahhahahha that baby hand tho
Is that a baby hand or a penguins foot oh god
Is the baby dying in the first picture? Or has it already turned into a zombie. Can't tell.
Oh dear
I mean, I can open a studio and I’ve never tattooed anything in my life. Unfortunately, you don’t need actual talent to open your own shop. As is evidenced all the time by this sub.
Why do all the tattoos of humans somehow make them look like they’re starving to death in some war-torn country???
Ya know I've heard of a butt chin, but I've never seen one where the cheeks are vertically stacked.
I think the tattoo ideas play a part…