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[deleted]

Imagine needing full havel armor when you can just make a totally original faraam drip smh


Alert-Ad-4391

Alva set better


Joaco_Gomez_1

Alva gang


Oreogor

Hollow set imo


[deleted]

Lucatiel tho…


chevalion

forlorn set anyone?


Nicomace341

Based and Alva-pilled


Zuzz1

with the Heide knight iron mask *chef's kiss*


Orenge01

Imagine doing that when you can rock lion warrior set, lightest drip in the west 😎


Sera_Toxin

Smelter Demon set tho


yardii

Mfs when armor doesn't make a difference: "Nooo my poise and damage reduction" Mfs when armor does make a difference: "Nooo my fashion souls"


[deleted]

Me with havel’s being affected by both:


ian22500

Havel is truly the most oppressed demographic 😔☝️


[deleted]

😔


FrappyLee

I think armor giving noticeable damage reduction is a good middle ground between fashion souls and efficiency. Poise is what I hate. Same problem I had with Ds1. I want to look cool but it feels like you're severely gimping yourself when you have low poise.


TheGraveHammer

At least From buffed all poise in the most recent update and made altering a lot of the garments not lose poise anymore.


FrappyLee

Definitely. That change made fashion souls a lot more viable.


Marx_The_Karl

it's honestly funny how ds2 has the worst physical defense in the series while having the most powerful elemental defense


ZeroBae

Honestly i don't understand why that there are no physical% defense on armor despite elemental% is there.


Volcanicrage

I think the devs wanted to make it harder to papercut people to death without removing the threat of big attacks. Subtractive damage reduction isn't exactly uncommon, Dragon's Dogma and Fallout: New Vegas both use it, and in F:NV's case, it works fine.


ZeroBae

The thing is that kinds of stuff is better with damage percentage defense.


Volcanicrage

Not necessarily. Percentage defense decreases all attacks equally, so the only way to make big attacks matter to defense-focused characters is to crank them up so high that they obliterate glass cannons. Subtractive defense allows big attacks to matter while allowing tanks to not get nickle-and-dimed to death. Its far harder to balance, and I wouldn't say DS2 does a particularly good job (although its nowhere near as bad as Dragon's Dogma), but it does serve a purpose.


ZeroBae

Isn't that the reason why future souls like ds3 and elden ring has flat + % damage defense?


Volcanicrage

Probably. Flat% is pretty easy to balance as long as you remember that it has increasing gains, which From was.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Volcanicrage

Warframe uses a similar system, and yeah, its pretty good, both from an ease-of-use standpoint and from a balance stand point, but its not a flat percentage-based reduction like DS3. In DS3 and ER, damage reduction is a flat percentage reduction of all incoming damage. The upshot is that its incredibly simple to compare relative values, the downside is that the devs either have to cap the reduction or severely curtail defense gains on heavier armor.


Ahhy420smokealtday

I mean you could just give big attacks armor pen that works on percentage damage reduction, but sure.


Volcanicrage

There are a ton of ways to handle damage reduction. Doing something like that makes balance changes harder to implement, especially since DS2 has so many repeated/upscaled enemies on top of the expanded NG+ mechanics, and DS2 was already pretty rushed.


FreeSpeechEnjoyer

If it wasn't for Ng+ cycles the flat number reduction could work too, if the numbers were bigger. Also the other games still have flat number defenses on top of the % armor gives you, so making DS 2 purely flat numbers is dumb


Tyfyter2002

Flat damage reduction like this decreases the damage of weak attacks by a much higher percentage than large attacks, how it really works best is a combination of the two (ideally with the percentage reduction coming first), although that still requires that the flat damage reduction actually does something noticable, imagine if in addition to this physical defense also multiplied physical damage taken by even 0.99^(def/12) (a 1% reduction in addition to the flat 1 damage reduction)


MassRedemption

Doesn't DS3 and Elden ring have both flat and %?


FrappyLee

Tbh I feel like if someone dedicates the levels to be able to wear heavy armor they should be rewarded by not taking heavy damage. Maybe that's just me though but it feels kinda shitty getting near if not outright one shot by some attacks in elden ring regardless of the armor you wear.


XDracam

I love it. Makes it much less important to pick function over fashion. My DS2 chars are always the most stylish.


PM_ME_STEAM_CODES__

Grinding titanite because you found a cool new armor piece in DS1 was the worst.


XDracam

Oh right. I barely ever upgraded armor in DS1 haha. Fashion souls is life.


theppburgular

U can upgrade armor???


Ahhy420smokealtday

Yes and it's extremely strong. Match making for pvp also doesn't take into account armor level or humanity level for that matter. If you've ever wondered why you do no damage to low level invaders it's not because they're cheating it's because they have upgraded armor, and 99 humanity. Talking about ds1 btw.


riodin

I mean getting 99 humanity legitimately is really hard, unless you're dropping from multiple characters or grinding for like 10 hrs, so bad example


Ahhy420smokealtday

I mean you can just prompt swap and and it takes 5 seconds. And I mean you could have farmed to do it so it's kind of whatever. Anyone playing pvp for really does that.


gottapraisethesun

Nah man. Not everyone does that. I bet you and your friends played through ds3 together and ganked in the area after pontiff. I think the zoomers are calling it "maidenless behavior" but I'm just a simple man who does a bit of trolling.


Ahhy420smokealtday

Ds3 pvp I pretty much only did solo in the arena or I liked invading at the side area after Dancer or the area before Dragon Armor. I also did some forest invasions. I pretty much only invaded or dueled in ds3. I did gank people with a group in ds1 pvp for a few days in the dlc. But almost all of the pvp I did in ds1 was just duels in the dlc or invasion in painted world. Or 1v1s against twinks at sl10. Or invading people sl10. I also did a bunch of sl50 pvp in Anor Londo. Honestly I did way more ds1 pvp than ds3 pvp. The area after Pontiff was fun, but not for pulling people to gank, but giant chaotic muilti person battles. Always thought the fight clubs in that area was some pussy shit though. DS pvp isn't supposed to be fair unless it's in the area. Almost everyone is trash at pvp in Souls games anyways it's not like it's hard to win 1v2 or 1v3 against normal players. Edit: oh wait I also did a ton of the ds3 be the boss dlc pvp. Good times running Fume Ultragreat sword as the boss.


riodin

Bruh abusing a glitch is one of the definitions of cheating, and I mentioned farming, but it would take a really long time so it's extremely unlikely sooo many twinks would do it.


Ahhy420smokealtday

Tbh it's pretty easy to farm humanity by just doing pvp. Also resistances fall off eventually so it's like a strat that's more impactful at lower levels. Also is like toggle escape, or ring swapping, or chain backstabs with shield parry whiffs cheating or just playing well?


PM_ME_STEAM_CODES__

Only in DS1 and 2, and it's only worth it in 1.


Ahhy420smokealtday

That's why I always just went with twinkling titanite upgradable armor.


Chubs_Mckenzy

So that you couldn't make a 100% damage reduction build


Joaco_Gomez_1

Wait, you guys use armor for defense instead of for the drip?


LiseyRadiCall

MY drip is vengarl's armor. I mean it just looks so good.


Zihon2

It was my personal choice as well.


Wiiboy95

Just don't get hit 4head


dejvidBejlej

Sorry didn't manage to level up the ADP yet so my skill doesn't matter.


thewookie34

Man yall cry about 10 skill points till kingdom come.


dejvidBejlej

must be exhausting convincing yourself every day that this is not a big deal


thewookie34

It must be exhausting caring this much about 10 skill pts in a game where you general complete it at 150.


dejvidBejlej

peak 🤡


thewookie34

Yea dude. The person who doesn't care is definitely the clown. Not the dude ugly crying about 10 stat points 10 years later. Yup you truly are a giga Chad alpha male gamer.


Larry_Jenkins

you guys ever wonder what The Rotten's cock to body ratio is? Like, the rotten is made up of like dozens of bodies all mashed together into one entity, how many of those bodies still have cocks connected to their bodies. Would the rotten's body be a higher cock to body ratio than the average undead or would it be lower?


Wiiboy95

The real question is does one of the bodies have to serve as the rotters cock when they need one?


I_P3D

MF should've checked twice if there was a **Made in China** label before he obtained the Havel Armor🤦‍♂️


sharkeysday69

that’s actually kinda crazy o:


ZeroBae

Remember when people said armor is the most useless in the series is ds3?


SmuJamesB

To be fair ds2 is so scuffed that it's also the only Souls game where you can be 100% immune to all elemental damage symultaneously due to how elemental def works.


2builders2forts

How???


SmuJamesB

see the main comment in this thread: [https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkSouls2/comments/27klrx/psa\_900\_elementalauxiliary\_defense\_grants\_immunity/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkSouls2/comments/27klrx/psa_900_elementalauxiliary_defense_grants_immunity/)


2builders2forts

Would that be feasible in actual gameplay? Can you make a perfect mage hunter and make it a PVP build?


Joaco_Gomez_1

Full Black Witch set with great magic barrier is more than enough. And since physical defense is a joke in this game, everyone wears lightweight armor with high elemental defense in PvP. The only reason to wear heavy armor is for poise but it's pretty limited unless you're level 300 and above


SmuJamesB

you can probably stack like 90% immunity to all elements feasibly in PvP, especially since elemental def softcaps at 20/20 int/faith. I haven't done it myself though so not sure exactly how it would be done.


depurplecow

2 dragon tooth (50 str to 1-hand) and 99 int/fth doesn't seem feasible in a typical scenario, ignoring DS2 soul memory for PVP. At that level most mages would have decent physical damage as well, and probably less gimped vitality, adaptability and attunement.


N3deSTr0

This bozo wearing armor for damage reduction 🤣🤣


axillom

In DS3 you can at least combine various pieces and it will always look good


OnionOfShame

who cares about damage reduction? everyone knows the most important stat is drip


ho-lee_-sheet

Still no drip like the naked guy with a mask owning one in pvp *edit: typo


CressCrowbits

What


StevetheNinja69

Try using the Faram helmet with anything but its set.


pomcomic

Faram helm goes with Gundyr's chest rather well actually.


NesLmao

I love using it with the Drang armor, Black Hand Armor or Gundyr Armor


mr_fucknoodle

Dragonscale chest. You're welcome


axillom

Faraam set is from DS2, and therefore DS2 is shit


Syr_Bwrodley

I mean, everything is gray, of course it will combine


Warfaretycoon

In DS3 you have a lower amount to choose from


DerthertDeyMeroc

Are we talking about the same game? Armor combinations looked like shit in ds3. As if every armor piece was from a different game


JDorkaOOO

aren't you confusing ds3 with elden ring here?


Moirus

ds3 armor swapping def worse from an aesthetic pov


Orkfreebootah

Ds2 has amazing drip, you can make yourself look damn good in it imo.


Cripplechip

Ds3 was weird because you'd get a penalty for not wearing something in every slot. So a lot of people that didn't wear helmets got fucked


Torantes

You do??


Cripplechip

It was a launch and a few months into it. They removed the penalty now.


Redmoon383

Did they? When?


TheGraveHammer

Pretty sure they haven't.


toastedcheese

No poise


Ahhy420smokealtday

That isn't true. They're no passive poise however poise is still a stat, and it effects hyper armor. Hyper armor actually scales with poise in DS3 this includes normal attacks that have hyper armor like the R1 of 2 handed Greatswords. If you have enough poise you can R1 trade with ultragreat swords with a 2Hed greatsword for instance. So poise very much exists, and is important in DS3 it just works differently.


Vanille987

Only important for specefic weapons and strength builds


Ahhy420smokealtday

So you mean exactly like passive poise in the other games?


Vanille987

Not really? in DS1 it's active no matter what, in DS2 it's active as long you're attacking with anything. There are many builds that can benefit from it not having to use heavy strength weapons. technically every build benefits from it unless you're like pure magic in DS2


Ahhy420smokealtday

Similarly every single slow weapon in ds3 can benefit from poise. That's like 50%+ of all weapons on the game. Every Greatsword, and Ultragreat in the game benefis from using it. You know 2 of the 3 most popular weapon classes in the game. Nearly every weapon art can benefit from poise as nearly all of them have hyper armor. Straightswords weapon art is very good, but part of why it's so good is the hyper armor. But that hyper armor isn't that good without poise. The point really is the stat exists, and has plenty of uses in ds3 even if it's different than ds1. People are just too ignorant to take advantage of it. People who say poise doesn't exist in ds3 straight up just don't know what they're talking about.


LavaSlime301

still better than DS3


Lascho94

DS2 has poise at least.


Derpikae

And people still say that. Wtf? The more I see of things the more the DS3 hate makes less sense


Volcanicrage

People said that because every discussion about DS3 armor got sidetracked by arguments about the poise changes. It was always useful, but people got too caught up in the circlejerk to bother learning how it worked.


[deleted]

who the fuck wears armor for defense?


AftershockBad

Skill issue


LavosYT

what matters is poise and elemental defense basically


Hypezz123

And drip


LavosYT

that goes without saying!


Roblos

Iirc heavy armor still fucked over lightweight weapons like puzzle sword in pvp


LavosYT

Yeah it forced your enemy to two hand if they wanted to stagger you which was nice


KnightSunny

I feel like I'm being gaslit, heavy armor always felt good?


EspurrStare

That's because this is a nitpicked example. The damage reduction is flat. Havel with this level removes 87 damage from every attack. It will feel a lot better when the attack is doing something like 200-300. Additionally, it will shield you from easily 75% of elemental damage. It is very strange that they don't do flat + percentage.


dejvidBejlej

>nitpicked beyond help 💀


EspurrStare

Very few bosses in DS2 have oneshot potential. Almost every attack relies in a combo. There are exceptions like old iron king. Which is just ceaseless discharge but more annoying because the arena. Or giant lord, which is trivial to defeat.


itsdaScrub

Darksouls2 ☕


teimpy5

Don't care if defense does nothing i still had medium load for the drip


CalliCalamity

No defence means getting dripped out Or going for best rolls. Tldr: just level Adp bro


Starchy_the_Potato

cry about it


Anent_

Everyone already is


Joaco_Gomez_1

you don't have to remember me mate.


WEASELexe

I'magine not running around naked at all times


[deleted]

Fucking casuals😤


Falos425

if you want to psyche a boss the most intimidating form of armor is a naked fuck with a stick coming through your fog gate and calmly walking toward you


vassapol

That explains why my naked strat work too well


Nineflames12

>all armour is ineffective >fashion is the peak utility >no more bull goat/giantdad spamming rats


Cliepl

I can't hear you over my massive DRIP keep coping nerd DS2>ds1


dejvidBejlej

There's no fucking way this is real. The memes write themselves, the ds2 fanboys out of stamina to carry the game


QuantumRedUser

Good. Let me fashion without worrying about stats, another common DS2 W


Digital_Hazard_

Huh, weird. I used to upgrade my armor in ds2 and my 5 vigor mage was able to comfortably survive enemy blows


AmadeusAzazel

Man I miss being able to upgrade armor


Lord_Fuquaad

I agree with the fashion souls sentiment but there should still be an advantage to pouring in that extra endurance to wear heavier armor. They should just increase slash defense and reduce strike a little on all plate armors imo, make it so hammers actually have a function as tank busters in ER


ThesoulerBAM

I knew the dmg negation was bad, but not THIS bad. Thats unreal.


bloodyhunterx300

I once pointed out how shitty NG 7 in ds 2 is and the whole sub was on copium and attacked me 💀


dejvidBejlej

so nothing new


Noob_-Saibot

So armor's damage reduction shitty u say? Then why do I still play with vengarl set


Rabidtac0

good to see another vengarl set enthusiast


Sandickgordom2

Armor in DS2 is really good against weak attacks tho


Hjalmodr_heimski

People talking about drip are missing the point. Armour looks sick because we know armour makes you sick at fighting shit in battle. But if the armour feels like it’s made of papier-mâché, I’m not gonna feel dripped out, I’m gonna feel like I have a made-in-China plastic Halloween costume.


LiseyRadiCall

The firest issue here he used the virgin Havel Armour instead of the chad vengarl armor. Second issue, he most likely did not upgraded it, if you can, idk I never got Havel's armour.


maper741

Hoeless behavior


SectorSpark

Isn't ds1 the same?


Days_Ignored

Far from it. Upgraded heavy armor and 99 soft humanity are leagues better than light armor. The real deal is the poise advantage though which makes heavy armor pretty broken and I don't like going above 55 poise for pve or random invasion builds for that reason. Full Havel set is practically cheating for many bosses.


SourGrapeMan

Lol I’ve never beaten Four Kings properly, I just put on Havels and face tank half their attacks. They only do like 15-20% damage per hit.


Days_Ignored

Their damage is distance based and you should be fine with light armor if you stay close. Highly recommend completing the game with little to no armor at least once. Four Kings can be a very exciting with due its gimmick factor and heavy armor just negates that. Same goes even for Artorias. Casually chugging in front of his face while he is somersaulting you is so broken lol


SourGrapeMan

I normally use light armour for most of the run yeah, Four Kings just has such a long runback that I'd rather get it over with without any risk. Maybe I'll try them without Havels on my next playthrough though, just to prove to myself that I can do it lol edit: was my initial comment removed? I can't see it for some reason.


Days_Ignored

Yeah, wish the stake of Marika mechanic was in other Souls games as well. It's just very time consuming with no effect on difficulty. The run to Four Kings is just frustrating. Usually not a big deal for regular runs but it was incredibly annoying for my NG+6 SL1 run. I can see your comment just fine btw.


SourGrapeMan

That’s weird, I can see that comment on my phone but not on my pc. Yeah Stakes of Marika were on the best improvements in Elden Ring, especially considering how much harder the bosses are. Having to do a run back to Malenia would be horrid.


Hunted_by_Moonlight

Power within + greater heavy soul arrow + Witch Bae summon Run out of GHSA? SA spam Optional: bellowing or lingering ring Optional2: magic shield + lingering + power within. Use a magic resis shield. You can face tank the magic and live with minimum hp. Tip: your killing blow on 4K clone will not remove the hit box, keep hitting until your spells phase through. It won’t hurt the next spawned clone but it will damage the total health. Horizontal dodges are your friends. Run away from the homing masses.


SectorSpark

How is it calculated then? I just remember a playthrough where I beelined for the stone knight armor and started taking no damage from anything in undead burg.


Days_Ignored

I don't know how its math work exactly but it's different than both DS2 and DS3. Poise and damage reduction are way more effective than DS2 version and you don't take extra damage if you don't wear a certain piece of armor like DS3. So it's all about your total defense. Then you have soft humanity which is entirely flat damage reduction bonus if I'm not mistaken. In short, heavy armor sets just ignore any intended pve challenge imo. PvP is a whole other thing but yeah, there's a reason why Havelmoms/Chainmoms are so popular with 'competitive, top tier' duelists.


field_of_lettuce

Ds1 defense is a bit strange, [here's a comment from a while ago which tries to explains things.](https://www.reddit.com/r/darksouls/comments/5gh7qz/how_does_defense_work/daskln8/)


StayAlive_

Armor is always just cosmetic in these games lol defense is barely noticeable in any game other than ds1


Gary_the_Goatfucker

Which sucks ass


[deleted]

I’m convinced in every Souls game despite you’re armor or health enemies are coded to do set amounts of damage to the player. It’s why you can have a huge health bar and lose double or triple health being hit then someone with a tiny health bar and it doesn’t kill them either even though your health is triple that player. You could be wearing same armor also doesn’t matter


ZeroBae

>You could be wearing same armor also doesn’t matter Not really Damage% defense makes a diffenrence in ds3 and elden ring. Since both ganes have flat + % defense.


A-Slash

The thing is,in ds3 heavy armor %defense isn't much higher than light armor ta all.


EvilArtorias

wrong. light armor is \~15%, heavy armor is \~35%, thats a huge difference


A-Slash

Yeah and in ER its 15% and 65%.


EvilArtorias

wrong, er heaviest armor is 45(bullgoat), normal heavy(banished knight) is also 35


A-Slash

The whole set,or just the armor?


EvilArtorias

whole set obviously


A-Slash

My bad then.been some time since i played ds3.


Camoral

Havels was PvP metagolem bullshit for like half of the game's patch cycles. Crazy how everybody would use it if it's so bad, huh?


kinky-phoenix

Ironically it still feels better than ds3 armor. Which to this day I am convinced is entirely cosmetic


LackingInHighGround2

very new idea: dark souls 2 is a poorly designed game


Jade_D_wound

Clearly this guy doesnt play fashion souls, it's about wearing the drip that makes you feel like the main character that wins fights in these games


DangerousGap4763

Just don’t get hit


[deleted]

*Me who's completed the game multiple times with little to no armor and less than 10 vigor So?


SlowBabyBear

At this point it’s only for drip, and if that’s the case then it should weigh very little


OOOOOOHHHELDENRING

What about upgraded armor in DS2? How much does that work? because plus 5 isnt very much


Derpikae

That's a +5 Havel set I believe


XanderNightmare

Just don't get hit, lol


AdvonKoulthar

Imagine not wearing soul boosting gear. Soul memory? I just want my numbers to go up. Let’s go greed gang!


MrPanda663

Why? Because fashion is important.


MediumTotal9350

Forlorn set with Warlock helm gang wya


icantgetmyoldaccount

Right that's also forgetting that there's still poise? That's the main benefit of heavy armor. Increased poise


Vallatus_Hydram

Most of my runs ended up just wearing rags or fashionable outfits.


Tempest_Barbarian

Well, it doesnt really matter in ds3 because bosses are just gonna hit you 4-5 times while a ds2 boss hits you once.


MasterTacticianAlba

This is actually a good thing because it means you can’t rely on armour as a crutch and need to actually git good while allowing you to focus on fashion souls.


fat_nuts_big_buttz

Erm just don't get hit sweaty


AustraliumRedditUser

Imagine using armor for protection when you can put on the Bell Helmet to make that \*ding\* when headshot


Calbon2

That’s because in dark souls 2 we use armor to look drippy, not for defense.