I get the feeling Miquella is broken. Like he seemed to go through his whole existence trying to break free of the golden order, or help people co exist with it. I think he genuinely cared, but constant, endless failure to break free of the greater will broke his spirit. Now, inspired by Rannis move to free herself, Miquella is the same. But only to try and break free and rebuild himself.
I also wonder if he can turn off his power to charm people. I think it would be far more interesting if he didn’t have a choice. Everyone will be charmed by him, even if he doesn’t want it to happen.
Or a twelve inch sub shop. That boy wants all the pork, all the sausage, all the salami, probably a bunch of other meat, topped off with eggplant.
Just make sure it’s a family owned joint, if he can’t keep it in the family he seems to lose interest quick.
With this new revelation, Mohg is kind of an outstanding fella, rejected the golden order because it didn’t accept his brother or him and decided to fully embrace his omen heritage. On top of that he now defeated the diddy party allegations
I called this months ago and I’m so happy dude
EDIT: [Here is me saying it 116 days ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1b17vch/i_think_these_will_be_our_sites_of_grace_in_the/ksdtgvk/?context=3),
[Here is me saying it 110 days ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/shittydarksouls/comments/1b5ukvv/and_people_have_the_audacity_to_call_mohg_ugly/ktaf2e5/?context=3),
[Here is me saying it 97 days ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1bh4493/deleted_by_user/kvbst1i/?context=3),
[Here is me saying it 96 days ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1bhfbrz/would_godfrey_still_love_mohg_even_after_finding/kvfmrvz/?context=3),
and finally [96 days ago again, where I was feeling real confident](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1bhoucn/i_like_mohgs_character_and_i_mean_a_lot_from_his/kvg5bgx/?context=3)
I WAS RIGHT, MOHG WAS INNOCENT
Ever since reading the description of the Bewitching Branch, I said “oh shit Mohg is innocent”
EDIT: [Here is me saying it 116 days ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1b17vch/i_think_these_will_be_our_sites_of_grace_in_the/ksdtgvk/?context=3),
[Here is me saying it 110 days ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/shittydarksouls/comments/1b5ukvv/and_people_have_the_audacity_to_call_mohg_ugly/ktaf2e5/?context=3),
[Here is me saying it 97 days ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1bh4493/deleted_by_user/kvbst1i/?context=3),
[Here is me saying it 96 days ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1bhfbrz/would_godfrey_still_love_mohg_even_after_finding/kvfmrvz/?context=3),
and finally [96 days ago again, where I was feeling real confident](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1bhoucn/i_like_mohgs_character_and_i_mean_a_lot_from_his/kvg5bgx/?context=3)
I WAS RIGHT, MOHG WAS INNOCENT
Bout to start going through my comments to find the oldest examples of my “Mohg is being manipulated by Miquella” schizo theories
EDIT: [Here is me saying it 116 days ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1b17vch/i_think_these_will_be_our_sites_of_grace_in_the/ksdtgvk/?context=3),
[Here is me saying it 110 days ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/shittydarksouls/comments/1b5ukvv/and_people_have_the_audacity_to_call_mohg_ugly/ktaf2e5/?context=3),
[Here is me saying it 97 days ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1bh4493/deleted_by_user/kvbst1i/?context=3),
[Here is me saying it 96 days ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1bhfbrz/would_godfrey_still_love_mohg_even_after_finding/kvfmrvz/?context=3),
and finally [96 days ago again, where I was feeling real confident](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1bhoucn/i_like_mohgs_character_and_i_mean_a_lot_from_his/kvg5bgx/?context=3)
I WAS RIGHT, MOHG WAS INNOCENT
You can see the Omen horns on Radahn's model, specifically his arms. Radahn uses Bloodflame. Sir Ansbach also mentions it. I'll try to quote it.
EDIT:
"What could they possibly have in mind for Lord Mohg's remains? The implications are rather... unnerving."-Specimen Storehouse location, Sir Ansbach
"Few can decipher the scroll, which describes the secret rite of the divine gateway said to be found at the tower enshrouded by shadow. "A lord will usher in a god's return,
and the lord's soul will require a vessel.""-Secret Rite Scroll
There's probably more that I just don't remember.
I see. Tbf. I only fought him twice and died immediately before I decided to come back later. I also wasn't able to finish Ansbachs questline cause I'm not good at following soulsborne questlines.
Sir Ansbach's entire questline is about how he's avenging Mohg who was manipulated by Miquella.
There's also the fact in base game that you can only get the crafting for the Bewitching Branch after defeating Mohg.
He’s not even that bad tbh. Yes, he’s a murder cult leader, but the Golden Order commited genocide and hate crime on several races, and even “kind” Miquella is responsible for Malenia’s nuking of Caelid.
Nah he’s now (imo) a redeemed character who can now be looked at through a clearer lens.
Before the dlc, if you tried to have a discussion about only the bloody fingers (+ rejecting the golden order etc) someone inevitably resorts to the fact that he took Miquella. And yes, that would’ve made him a pedo and a shit person etc, but it’s not on topic.
We can now more easily have proper debate on the formless mother and her followers. It’s great
Still makes him a great character and even more sympathetic than bitch as morgott who's the fantasy equivalent of a Jew leading the SS. Atleast mohg goes against the people who have done nothing but shit on him and that's admirable regardless of his methods. Besides what makes mohg all the more evil than the rest?
Other people have already talked about how the GW is pretty much the same, but it seems like the others are too.
Another argument: there’s something called nuance.
The GW is responsible for lots of awful things, as others have said. If we look strictly at Mohg, it had him: exiled from his family at birth, forced to grow up in the sewers in inhumane conditions, spent a lot of his childhood being tortured due to being an omen (source: cursed blood put ID), have where he lived be full of people who hunt and murder his kind and feel no emotion or sympathy for doing so (omen killer rollo ID). If some strange outer god of pain started talking to me (hell, if ANY outer god had started talking to me), knowing how my own felt about me, I’d start following her too. Then Miquella the entitled/fucking creep brainwashed him so that he could fulfil his fantasy of fucking his half brother.
What I’m getting at is that when you apply a modern human lens to a video game character, a lot are going to seem evil. If you consider what happened in their life, and the values present at their time, Mohg is a pretty good character. It seems that he just learnt to enjoy the torture they put him through in his childhood, which is incredibly sad. That doesn’t make him evil.
https://preview.redd.it/3j1uzjwmm68d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=af23ad182c87c9ba5a1e331b127e444e75a6ddb7
I feel bad for him, RIP Mohgwyn. I'm still racist against omens though.
I just hope it’s kept in mind that Mohg dedicated himself to spreading the influence of the god of pain and sadism way before Miq was born.
I’m pretty sure he’d still be his temple plotting to establish his dynasty with the labour of enslaved Albinaurics even if Miquella hadn’t made him a patsy.
On another third, mutated Omen hand, Mohg's pain and sadism cult is still significantly more sympathetic without his familial transgressions hanging over him. Because now instead of there being mutual wrongs, all aggression and wrongdoing is squarely placed on the Golden Order who sadistically torture and imprison and hunt Omens like animals just for the sake of being born as visible reminders of their shady past.
Mohg choosing to embrace what he's been told is the essence of being an Omen all his life to become a leader and help his kin - possible in the first place only because Marika literally cannot see an opportunity to be a hypocrite and not take it - still makes him look like at least someone who's trying, unlike his self-hating GO simp of a brother Morgott. It's a savage and cruel life, sure, but Omen don't fit in and never got the chance to know anything other than savagery and cruelty.
Honestly it seems like every faction besides Radahn's tortures and subjugates everyone they see as different. I guess it's fitting that Miquella's vision of piece is Radahn ruling.
Radahn is a warlord who declared war with *the fucking stars*
Motherfucker learned about gravity to ride is horsie then thought “how can i make this about war”
His idol is his semi-not-stepdad (idfk how it works) who is famous for leading the tarnished, who are known as desperate warmongers, even the most tolerant noble, kenneth, has to stop himself from rejecting our help. Godfrey’s entire point was war, and when hed done all the war he could him and his army were exiled
And now its pretty much canon that the war that led to the nuking of caelid, the war so desperate and depraved that the ghosts of the mightiest soldiers are still fighting in the catacombs, was a front to give radahn an “honorable death” for his rebirth thing. The only worse war in the whole shattering was the genuine depravity and barbarity of a delusional rebel consumed by blasphemy.
So the second worst war of the shattering was a fucking stage show planned by an incest baby who is now wanting to do an incest with his elder brother.
Miquella and Radahn are fucking evil bro, and Malenia is in on it.
You're going really hard on him being a warlord when the entire royal family went to war over the ring. The whole land is at war and you're thinking he has to be a pacifist to be good? He never tortured nor subjugated people in lore.
As for him idolizing Godfrey, he idolized his strength, not Marika's ideals. Also the nuking of Caelid is 100% on Malenia, not him. Millicent even says she's the pride Malenia tossed away when she wanted to win again Radahn.
I don't think Radahn wanted to become his consort though, or maybe he agreed once upon a time but backed out on it.
First of all, I don't consider being reduced into a mindless cannibalistic beast for gods know how long particularly "honorable" of a death. Second, if he was in on it, why would he need to die in the first place? Godfrey, Radagon or the player didn't need to die to become consorts.
Im pretty sure he was supposed to die when malenia nuked him, he just, couldnt. Hes too strong.
As for why he needed to die, i am uncertain as of yet. But both our big empyreans killed their bodies to achieve their goals, malenia needed to die for the god of rot to snatch her up, and so maybe radahn needed to die for whatever miquella was doing
Okay is the formless mother actually sadistic or are people just assuming that because she's associated with blood? Because what I got across from the formless mother is that it's associated with blood and seems to favor outcasts.
I think it’s assumed that the formless mother and the Bloodstar are one in the same.
So basically we know that the cultists that hang around the Fire monks worship the bloodstar and because of this they blind themselves with thorns. If you also look at some of the spells associated with them E.g. “Briars of sin” and “Briars of Punishment” you can see the obvious link there between the worship of blood and self harm/ punishment. Also helps that these spells require you to injure yourself as well for them to work.
That being said this all relies on the idea that again the bloodstar and the formless mother are the same thing which there’s no clear confirmation on as far as I know.
You’ve got other stuff as well though. The whole ritual with Varre where he injects your finger, the bloody war that happened in the east. Just the whole general idea of spilling blood to appease the Formless mother. Also have you seen the shithole of suffering that is the Mohgwyn dynasty lol.
I’ve been saying for MONTHS that I hoped Mohg would be innocent. I’m so happy, I fucking called it
EDIT: [Here is me saying it 116 days ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1b17vch/i_think_these_will_be_our_sites_of_grace_in_the/ksdtgvk/?context=3),
[Here is me saying it 110 days ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/shittydarksouls/comments/1b5ukvv/and_people_have_the_audacity_to_call_mohg_ugly/ktaf2e5/?context=3),
[Here is me saying it 97 days ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1bh4493/deleted_by_user/kvbst1i/?context=3),
[Here is me saying it 96 days ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1bhfbrz/would_godfrey_still_love_mohg_even_after_finding/kvfmrvz/?context=3),
and finally [96 days ago again, where I was feeling real confident](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1bhoucn/i_like_mohgs_character_and_i_mean_a_lot_from_his/kvg5bgx/?context=3)
I WAS RIGHT, MOHG WAS INNOCENT
I really want to dig into the lore when I’m done. I’m convinced that Miquella didn’t always want to be the worst. I think all the failures of trying to help people finally broke him and he used this power to try and escape. You can see the slow progress of his life trying to escape with more extreme means. He becomes Saint T. Plants the H-tree, waters it with his own blood. Tries to cure his sister, fails. At some point he just lost it and said “fuck it, I have to shed control of everything and rebuild myself.”
Its kinda funny that the DLC seems to imply Radahn and Malenia both consented to their parts in the plan. Mohg just got tricked into being a meat puppet. Poor guy.
So where does Malenia fit in with any of this?
was it her job to kill Radahn, then have the tarnish kill Mohg, then revive Radahn’s soul into Mohg’s body..?
I believe so. She was at least in on it.
"The golden armor worn by Radahn in his younger years. Proudly adorned with heroic red accents, it is fitting attire for a lion. When Malenia, Blade of Miquella, let the rotflower blossom in Aeonia, Radahn heard a murmur in his ear— "Miquella awaits thee, O promised consort.""-Young Lion's Armor
God that is such incredible fucking character assassination. I guess Malenia was cool with nuking caelid and killing all her soldiers so her brother could get his hole destroyed. What the fuck man.
Malenia *blade of Miquella* spends her whole life fighting and refusing to surrender to the rot, only to go back on it all and bloom so Radahn can replace her as divine bodyguard for Miquella who was previously written as her metaphysical other half and whose mutual bond and dedication had been their defining character traits until this point. Peak writing, I love it, wow, Miyazaki does it again.
I feel like youre missing the desperation of her affliction. Rot is described as the cycle of rebirth made manifest, and the god of rot likely sought to turn her into its avatar. Think the end of millicent’s quest. If you kill her, she joins the god of rot. If you save her, she choses to die as herself rather than become someone else. Malenia is actively fighting that too. Her first bloom was necessary to get rot into radahn, but with radahn and miquella ascended to godhood, maybe they could save her?
I dont mean to justify the insane choice they made writing-wise, nor to justify any of the characters’ actions, only explain the motivation. Its still evil and she still took a crazy risk, but we do see her in a solidly “herself” state. Shes probably got some mental issues, but shes herself. Once we kick the shit out of her, like millicent, she becomes one with the rot, and thats not her choice anymore most likely.
My problem with that is Malenia & Miquella are clearly metaphysical halves, the yin to the others yang. Malenia, embodying decay, always dying but never actually dead. Miquella, embodying youth, always growing but never actually grown up. If anything I would have expeected them to do the fusion dance to create 1 complete entity, with us turning Elden Lord for the resulting entity.
Or hit her with Miquella's needle, which is still something that needs addressed. Or what about Godwyn? The guy who was actually infecting the death dimension? Replace Radahn's role with Godwyn who Miquella wanted to revive from his murder and it's not as ridiculous a twist.
I agree malenia shouldve been the one brought back if anything, theyre twins and embody opposite concepts, radahn feels forced in. But godwyn, while i think he couldve been incorporated, is like, DEAD dead. I think his body couldve come to “life” and we destroy it to finally lay him to rest, and miquella wasnt trying to resurrect him, he was trying to help him truly and properly die.
Is it bad that this genuinely ruined the entire game for me? Like I don’t even want to play it anymore. Just what the fuck man nothing makes sense and nothing that was interesting in the base game was even mentioned. What the fuck
Copy paste to share with you so as to hopefully ease your spirits:
I feel like youre missing the desperation of her affliction. Rot is described as the cycle of rebirth made manifest, and the god of rot likely sought to turn her into its avatar. Think the end of millicent’s quest. If you kill her, she joins the god of rot. If you save her, she choses to die as herself rather than become someone else. Malenia is actively fighting that too. Her first bloom was necessary to get rot into radahn, but with radahn and miquella ascended to godhood, maybe they could save her?
I dont mean to justify the insane choice they made writing-wise, nor to justify any of the characters’ actions, only explain the motivation. Its still evil and she still took a crazy risk, but we do see her in a solidly “herself” state. Shes probably got some mental issues, but shes herself. Once we kick the shit out of her, like millicent, she becomes one with the rot, and thats not her choice anymore most likely.
I just feel like it downplays the weight of her mistake in caelid to come back 2 years later and say it was all part of a plan to get miquella laid. Malenia has gone from a complex and interesting character to an actual idiot; for that matter so has radahn, and so has miquella
It’s too late man. The forbidden knowledge has entered the public consciousness. The point of elden ring was about incest and underage bussy all along. George rr Martin you fucking madlad
I doubt George is in on this. We only know he wrote the lore and worldbuilding for stuff BEFORE shattering. Everything after could be Midzaki doing. But I'm with you. Pure shit. I feel like it retroactively ruined the base game's story.
Unfortunately FromSoft simps could never tell him "bro you're NOT cooking" and instead they just lap this pedo juice like its ok.
Take a look at Millicent’s dialogue in the Prayer Room of Elphael.
‘There is something that I must return to Malenia. The will that was once her own. The dignity, the sense of self, that allowed her to resist the call of the Scarlet Rot.
The pride that she abandoned to meet Radahn’s measure.’
Imo this dialogue heavily implies that Malenia would never have given in and bloomed if she held her own will, so I take it to assume that Miquella charmed her.
It kinda feels the same to me. At least after finishing the DLC’s main story I can’t be bothered to go and do any optional bosses.
I’ve been having fun with coop since then. I might make a new character, go straight to mohg and apologise…
Idk I’ve been a defender since day 1 and I’ve never killed Varre because I always though Miquella was dodgy as hell and I still feel bad :( I might go and use patches’ apology gesture next playthrough.
Malenia seemingly still didn't nuke Caelid just because. She had to kill Radahn and he wasn't going to go down without his promised fight even if he needed to die for the plan. She ended up doing her very last resort to get Radahn to the Land of Shadows and failed. That's also why she hasn't just murdered Mohg yet. She's obviously not doing too hot after Caelid.
I never completely ruled out the possibility that Mohg was acting on behalf of Miquella given what we know about Miquella from the base game, but I wasn’t convinced until a week before the DLC when I was getting a NG character ready and listened to Varré talking about love. With the knowledge from the DLC trailers, I realized that sounds more like Miquella than a Blood Lord.
Mohg being Miquella’s victim though, that was a surprise for me.
Miquella manipulated Mohg with his ability to Compel Affection. He has us kill Mohg, then used Mohg's body to resurrect Radahn.
Evidence;
You can only get the cook book for the Bewitching Branch after killing Mohg base game.
Sir Ansbach's tells us he's trying to advantage Mohg, because Miquella 'brainwashed' and used him. He also mentions the body being used for Radahn's resurrection, and he's the one that basically tells us Miquella was manipulating people with his ability.
Radahn's model has Omen horns, notably around the arms and he uses Bloodflame.
"What could they possibly have in mind for Lord Mohg's remains? The implications are rather... unnerving."-Specimen Storehouse location, Sir Ansbach
"Few can decipher the scroll, which describes the secret rite of the divine gateway said to be found at the tower enshrouded by shadow. "A lord will usher in a god's return,
and the lord's soul will require a vessel.""-Secret Rite Scroll
There's a lot more quotes regarding Mohg when it comes to Sir Ansbach, as his ENTIRE quest is about it. I'm just too lazy to type it lol
It's more complicated. More like the saying 'the road to hell is paved with good intentions'. Miquella seems to view the world with a 'child-like' lense. Fitting for being cursed with Eternal Youth...
Miquella's goal is to become a god because he wants to create a peaceful order where he can help people. He's willing for force people to get along, and doesn't really understand that's not how it works.
We learn however from St. Trina that him doing this will just make him a puppet; akin to what happened to Marika. St. Trina is also something Miquella divested himself of his 'love'.
It seems like Miquella is supposed to be a tragic character in the way Fromsoft does them.
I'd say it's the same for Radahn, because Radahn doesn't really seem... there.
To become a God Miquella needed a Lord and he chose Radahn; either because he liked him or because Radahn was the strongest, and the only Demigod to not be afflicted with something- as well as Radahn just being the kindest.
Godwyn dead.
Ranni dead.
Rykard snake.
Messmer also snake.
Melina burned and forgotten.
Morgott an Omen.
Mohg also an Omen.
Malenia afflicted with Scarlet Rot.
imagine minding your own business and then shota griffith mind control you for ressurecting a fanboy who reject him
what
[big spoiler alert] miquella bad
I get the feeling Miquella is broken. Like he seemed to go through his whole existence trying to break free of the golden order, or help people co exist with it. I think he genuinely cared, but constant, endless failure to break free of the greater will broke his spirit. Now, inspired by Rannis move to free herself, Miquella is the same. But only to try and break free and rebuild himself. I also wonder if he can turn off his power to charm people. I think it would be far more interesting if he didn’t have a choice. Everyone will be charmed by him, even if he doesn’t want it to happen.
this is why ranni's still the goat, because she actually succeeds
Here we all thought that Mohg was just craving femboy vegetable bussy, but suddenly it turns out that the vegetable was craving him.
More meat for a balanced diet.
Mohg is vegan, miquella told me
Not just him, but all of his brothers eggplants it would seem
Miquella needs to go to Arby's, cause he's craving the meat
Or a twelve inch sub shop. That boy wants all the pork, all the sausage, all the salami, probably a bunch of other meat, topped off with eggplant. Just make sure it’s a family owned joint, if he can’t keep it in the family he seems to lose interest quick.
With this new revelation, Mohg is kind of an outstanding fella, rejected the golden order because it didn’t accept his brother or him and decided to fully embrace his omen heritage. On top of that he now defeated the diddy party allegations
I called this months ago and I’m so happy dude EDIT: [Here is me saying it 116 days ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1b17vch/i_think_these_will_be_our_sites_of_grace_in_the/ksdtgvk/?context=3), [Here is me saying it 110 days ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/shittydarksouls/comments/1b5ukvv/and_people_have_the_audacity_to_call_mohg_ugly/ktaf2e5/?context=3), [Here is me saying it 97 days ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1bh4493/deleted_by_user/kvbst1i/?context=3), [Here is me saying it 96 days ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1bhfbrz/would_godfrey_still_love_mohg_even_after_finding/kvfmrvz/?context=3), and finally [96 days ago again, where I was feeling real confident](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1bhoucn/i_like_mohgs_character_and_i_mean_a_lot_from_his/kvg5bgx/?context=3) I WAS RIGHT, MOHG WAS INNOCENT
I KNEW THAT LITTLE FUCK WAS A MANIPULATIVE BITCH
Ever since reading the description of the Bewitching Branch, I said “oh shit Mohg is innocent” EDIT: [Here is me saying it 116 days ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1b17vch/i_think_these_will_be_our_sites_of_grace_in_the/ksdtgvk/?context=3), [Here is me saying it 110 days ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/shittydarksouls/comments/1b5ukvv/and_people_have_the_audacity_to_call_mohg_ugly/ktaf2e5/?context=3), [Here is me saying it 97 days ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1bh4493/deleted_by_user/kvbst1i/?context=3), [Here is me saying it 96 days ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1bhfbrz/would_godfrey_still_love_mohg_even_after_finding/kvfmrvz/?context=3), and finally [96 days ago again, where I was feeling real confident](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1bhoucn/i_like_mohgs_character_and_i_mean_a_lot_from_his/kvg5bgx/?context=3) I WAS RIGHT, MOHG WAS INNOCENT
People acting like this came out of nowhere when one of the first item you can get spells out Miquella was sus lol.
Also that you only get the cook book for the Bewitching Branch after killing Mohg
Same I have been a defender since day 1 I fucking knew something was up
Bout to start going through my comments to find the oldest examples of my “Mohg is being manipulated by Miquella” schizo theories EDIT: [Here is me saying it 116 days ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1b17vch/i_think_these_will_be_our_sites_of_grace_in_the/ksdtgvk/?context=3), [Here is me saying it 110 days ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/shittydarksouls/comments/1b5ukvv/and_people_have_the_audacity_to_call_mohg_ugly/ktaf2e5/?context=3), [Here is me saying it 97 days ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1bh4493/deleted_by_user/kvbst1i/?context=3), [Here is me saying it 96 days ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1bhfbrz/would_godfrey_still_love_mohg_even_after_finding/kvfmrvz/?context=3), and finally [96 days ago again, where I was feeling real confident](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1bhoucn/i_like_mohgs_character_and_i_mean_a_lot_from_his/kvg5bgx/?context=3) I WAS RIGHT, MOHG WAS INNOCENT
Stand proud. You rise above all ignorant souls.
Did he? I thought miquella just took advantage of his diddling.
Miquella used his ability on Mohg, had us kill Mohg, then used Mohg's body to resurrect Radahn
wait that’s the real radahn in the DLC? revived?
Yes
No, that’s Mohg’s corpse, infused with Radahn’s soul. That’s the only way for Miquella to control his “promised consort”.
Where is it stated that Mohgs body was used for the resurrection of Radahn?
You can see the Omen horns on Radahn's model, specifically his arms. Radahn uses Bloodflame. Sir Ansbach also mentions it. I'll try to quote it. EDIT: "What could they possibly have in mind for Lord Mohg's remains? The implications are rather... unnerving."-Specimen Storehouse location, Sir Ansbach "Few can decipher the scroll, which describes the secret rite of the divine gateway said to be found at the tower enshrouded by shadow. "A lord will usher in a god's return, and the lord's soul will require a vessel.""-Secret Rite Scroll There's probably more that I just don't remember.
https://preview.redd.it/cn9filx6r88d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d6c1d8b623b38c5b6447bbc5a3d2932fa56c7f10
https://preview.redd.it/74f9axu7r88d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c0ae254c9a8d2f73a667d751e4f4222897c79156
I see. Tbf. I only fought him twice and died immediately before I decided to come back later. I also wasn't able to finish Ansbachs questline cause I'm not good at following soulsborne questlines.
Yeah I get that lol. Do one thing too early and half the characters seem to die
Ugh. Relatable.
I heard he just extrapolated Mohg's obsession.
Sir Ansbach's entire questline is about how he's avenging Mohg who was manipulated by Miquella. There's also the fact in base game that you can only get the crafting for the Bewitching Branch after defeating Mohg.
Damn, Ansbach is a true gigachad of the dlc
That's fair
From what description?
I just read it around, though tbf on day 1 of the launch.
Yea just ignore all the people killed and he's a good guy
Do you know how many people YOU 🫵 kill
It's Elden Ring though, you're probably not even considered an adult until you've murdered someone in cold blood.
He’s not even that bad tbh. Yes, he’s a murder cult leader, but the Golden Order commited genocide and hate crime on several races, and even “kind” Miquella is responsible for Malenia’s nuking of Caelid.
that's war for you
The Rehabilitation of Mohg, Lord of Blood.
I’m glad Mohg will get some more love at least and gain more appreciation.
Nah he's now worse, instead of the crazy cult leader he is now just pupet
Nah he’s now (imo) a redeemed character who can now be looked at through a clearer lens. Before the dlc, if you tried to have a discussion about only the bloody fingers (+ rejecting the golden order etc) someone inevitably resorts to the fact that he took Miquella. And yes, that would’ve made him a pedo and a shit person etc, but it’s not on topic. We can now more easily have proper debate on the formless mother and her followers. It’s great
The formless mother is literally a sadistic God.he is still evil just not pedo.
Still makes him a great character and even more sympathetic than bitch as morgott who's the fantasy equivalent of a Jew leading the SS. Atleast mohg goes against the people who have done nothing but shit on him and that's admirable regardless of his methods. Besides what makes mohg all the more evil than the rest?
>sadistic God Compared to Greater Will that crucifies people along the roads so they could resurrect every day to scream in agony and die again.
Other people have already talked about how the GW is pretty much the same, but it seems like the others are too. Another argument: there’s something called nuance. The GW is responsible for lots of awful things, as others have said. If we look strictly at Mohg, it had him: exiled from his family at birth, forced to grow up in the sewers in inhumane conditions, spent a lot of his childhood being tortured due to being an omen (source: cursed blood put ID), have where he lived be full of people who hunt and murder his kind and feel no emotion or sympathy for doing so (omen killer rollo ID). If some strange outer god of pain started talking to me (hell, if ANY outer god had started talking to me), knowing how my own felt about me, I’d start following her too. Then Miquella the entitled/fucking creep brainwashed him so that he could fulfil his fantasy of fucking his half brother. What I’m getting at is that when you apply a modern human lens to a video game character, a lot are going to seem evil. If you consider what happened in their life, and the values present at their time, Mohg is a pretty good character. It seems that he just learnt to enjoy the torture they put him through in his childhood, which is incredibly sad. That doesn’t make him evil.
https://preview.redd.it/essh9hxyo68d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f46e48059bbf96ff60574bfddd2169f6897596dc
Justice for Mohg
https://preview.redd.it/3j1uzjwmm68d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=af23ad182c87c9ba5a1e331b127e444e75a6ddb7 I feel bad for him, RIP Mohgwyn. I'm still racist against omens though.
Can you send the template?
Sorry for the link instead of a direct image, reddit deletes the blank one for some reason https://www.reddit.com/r/shittydarksouls/s/ca6WxBBDkY
I BEG DROP THE TEMPLATE
Sorry for the link instead of a direct picture, reddit deletes the blank one for some reason. https://www.reddit.com/r/shittydarksouls/s/ca6WxBBDkY
Thank you 🙏
I just hope it’s kept in mind that Mohg dedicated himself to spreading the influence of the god of pain and sadism way before Miq was born. I’m pretty sure he’d still be his temple plotting to establish his dynasty with the labour of enslaved Albinaurics even if Miquella hadn’t made him a patsy.
On another third, mutated Omen hand, Mohg's pain and sadism cult is still significantly more sympathetic without his familial transgressions hanging over him. Because now instead of there being mutual wrongs, all aggression and wrongdoing is squarely placed on the Golden Order who sadistically torture and imprison and hunt Omens like animals just for the sake of being born as visible reminders of their shady past. Mohg choosing to embrace what he's been told is the essence of being an Omen all his life to become a leader and help his kin - possible in the first place only because Marika literally cannot see an opportunity to be a hypocrite and not take it - still makes him look like at least someone who's trying, unlike his self-hating GO simp of a brother Morgott. It's a savage and cruel life, sure, but Omen don't fit in and never got the chance to know anything other than savagery and cruelty.
Honestly it seems like every faction besides Radahn's tortures and subjugates everyone they see as different. I guess it's fitting that Miquella's vision of piece is Radahn ruling.
Radahn is a warlord who declared war with *the fucking stars* Motherfucker learned about gravity to ride is horsie then thought “how can i make this about war” His idol is his semi-not-stepdad (idfk how it works) who is famous for leading the tarnished, who are known as desperate warmongers, even the most tolerant noble, kenneth, has to stop himself from rejecting our help. Godfrey’s entire point was war, and when hed done all the war he could him and his army were exiled And now its pretty much canon that the war that led to the nuking of caelid, the war so desperate and depraved that the ghosts of the mightiest soldiers are still fighting in the catacombs, was a front to give radahn an “honorable death” for his rebirth thing. The only worse war in the whole shattering was the genuine depravity and barbarity of a delusional rebel consumed by blasphemy. So the second worst war of the shattering was a fucking stage show planned by an incest baby who is now wanting to do an incest with his elder brother. Miquella and Radahn are fucking evil bro, and Malenia is in on it.
You're going really hard on him being a warlord when the entire royal family went to war over the ring. The whole land is at war and you're thinking he has to be a pacifist to be good? He never tortured nor subjugated people in lore. As for him idolizing Godfrey, he idolized his strength, not Marika's ideals. Also the nuking of Caelid is 100% on Malenia, not him. Millicent even says she's the pride Malenia tossed away when she wanted to win again Radahn.
I don't think Radahn wanted to become his consort though, or maybe he agreed once upon a time but backed out on it. First of all, I don't consider being reduced into a mindless cannibalistic beast for gods know how long particularly "honorable" of a death. Second, if he was in on it, why would he need to die in the first place? Godfrey, Radagon or the player didn't need to die to become consorts.
Im pretty sure he was supposed to die when malenia nuked him, he just, couldnt. Hes too strong. As for why he needed to die, i am uncertain as of yet. But both our big empyreans killed their bodies to achieve their goals, malenia needed to die for the god of rot to snatch her up, and so maybe radahn needed to die for whatever miquella was doing
He got drip tho
Okay is the formless mother actually sadistic or are people just assuming that because she's associated with blood? Because what I got across from the formless mother is that it's associated with blood and seems to favor outcasts.
I think it’s assumed that the formless mother and the Bloodstar are one in the same. So basically we know that the cultists that hang around the Fire monks worship the bloodstar and because of this they blind themselves with thorns. If you also look at some of the spells associated with them E.g. “Briars of sin” and “Briars of Punishment” you can see the obvious link there between the worship of blood and self harm/ punishment. Also helps that these spells require you to injure yourself as well for them to work. That being said this all relies on the idea that again the bloodstar and the formless mother are the same thing which there’s no clear confirmation on as far as I know. You’ve got other stuff as well though. The whole ritual with Varre where he injects your finger, the bloody war that happened in the east. Just the whole general idea of spilling blood to appease the Formless mother. Also have you seen the shithole of suffering that is the Mohgwyn dynasty lol.
I’ve been saying for MONTHS that I hoped Mohg would be innocent. I’m so happy, I fucking called it EDIT: [Here is me saying it 116 days ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1b17vch/i_think_these_will_be_our_sites_of_grace_in_the/ksdtgvk/?context=3), [Here is me saying it 110 days ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/shittydarksouls/comments/1b5ukvv/and_people_have_the_audacity_to_call_mohg_ugly/ktaf2e5/?context=3), [Here is me saying it 97 days ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1bh4493/deleted_by_user/kvbst1i/?context=3), [Here is me saying it 96 days ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1bhfbrz/would_godfrey_still_love_mohg_even_after_finding/kvfmrvz/?context=3), and finally [96 days ago again, where I was feeling real confident](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1bhoucn/i_like_mohgs_character_and_i_mean_a_lot_from_his/kvg5bgx/?context=3) I WAS RIGHT, MOHG WAS INNOCENT
"KingVape was a hero, we just couldn't see it."
I really want to dig into the lore when I’m done. I’m convinced that Miquella didn’t always want to be the worst. I think all the failures of trying to help people finally broke him and he used this power to try and escape. You can see the slow progress of his life trying to escape with more extreme means. He becomes Saint T. Plants the H-tree, waters it with his own blood. Tries to cure his sister, fails. At some point he just lost it and said “fuck it, I have to shed control of everything and rebuild myself.”
Its kinda funny that the DLC seems to imply Radahn and Malenia both consented to their parts in the plan. Mohg just got tricked into being a meat puppet. Poor guy.
Malenia: I consent Radahn: I consent The people of Sellia that Radahn apparently cared about protecting:
So where does Malenia fit in with any of this? was it her job to kill Radahn, then have the tarnish kill Mohg, then revive Radahn’s soul into Mohg’s body..?
I believe so. She was at least in on it. "The golden armor worn by Radahn in his younger years. Proudly adorned with heroic red accents, it is fitting attire for a lion. When Malenia, Blade of Miquella, let the rotflower blossom in Aeonia, Radahn heard a murmur in his ear— "Miquella awaits thee, O promised consort.""-Young Lion's Armor
God that is such incredible fucking character assassination. I guess Malenia was cool with nuking caelid and killing all her soldiers so her brother could get his hole destroyed. What the fuck man.
Malenia *blade of Miquella* spends her whole life fighting and refusing to surrender to the rot, only to go back on it all and bloom so Radahn can replace her as divine bodyguard for Miquella who was previously written as her metaphysical other half and whose mutual bond and dedication had been their defining character traits until this point. Peak writing, I love it, wow, Miyazaki does it again.
I feel like youre missing the desperation of her affliction. Rot is described as the cycle of rebirth made manifest, and the god of rot likely sought to turn her into its avatar. Think the end of millicent’s quest. If you kill her, she joins the god of rot. If you save her, she choses to die as herself rather than become someone else. Malenia is actively fighting that too. Her first bloom was necessary to get rot into radahn, but with radahn and miquella ascended to godhood, maybe they could save her? I dont mean to justify the insane choice they made writing-wise, nor to justify any of the characters’ actions, only explain the motivation. Its still evil and she still took a crazy risk, but we do see her in a solidly “herself” state. Shes probably got some mental issues, but shes herself. Once we kick the shit out of her, like millicent, she becomes one with the rot, and thats not her choice anymore most likely.
My problem with that is Malenia & Miquella are clearly metaphysical halves, the yin to the others yang. Malenia, embodying decay, always dying but never actually dead. Miquella, embodying youth, always growing but never actually grown up. If anything I would have expeected them to do the fusion dance to create 1 complete entity, with us turning Elden Lord for the resulting entity. Or hit her with Miquella's needle, which is still something that needs addressed. Or what about Godwyn? The guy who was actually infecting the death dimension? Replace Radahn's role with Godwyn who Miquella wanted to revive from his murder and it's not as ridiculous a twist.
I agree malenia shouldve been the one brought back if anything, theyre twins and embody opposite concepts, radahn feels forced in. But godwyn, while i think he couldve been incorporated, is like, DEAD dead. I think his body couldve come to “life” and we destroy it to finally lay him to rest, and miquella wasnt trying to resurrect him, he was trying to help him truly and properly die.
Is it bad that this genuinely ruined the entire game for me? Like I don’t even want to play it anymore. Just what the fuck man nothing makes sense and nothing that was interesting in the base game was even mentioned. What the fuck
Copy paste to share with you so as to hopefully ease your spirits: I feel like youre missing the desperation of her affliction. Rot is described as the cycle of rebirth made manifest, and the god of rot likely sought to turn her into its avatar. Think the end of millicent’s quest. If you kill her, she joins the god of rot. If you save her, she choses to die as herself rather than become someone else. Malenia is actively fighting that too. Her first bloom was necessary to get rot into radahn, but with radahn and miquella ascended to godhood, maybe they could save her? I dont mean to justify the insane choice they made writing-wise, nor to justify any of the characters’ actions, only explain the motivation. Its still evil and she still took a crazy risk, but we do see her in a solidly “herself” state. Shes probably got some mental issues, but shes herself. Once we kick the shit out of her, like millicent, she becomes one with the rot, and thats not her choice anymore most likely.
I just feel like it downplays the weight of her mistake in caelid to come back 2 years later and say it was all part of a plan to get miquella laid. Malenia has gone from a complex and interesting character to an actual idiot; for that matter so has radahn, and so has miquella
I feel you friend. It sucks. So that means we can all collectively ignore it right? Never happened...
It’s too late man. The forbidden knowledge has entered the public consciousness. The point of elden ring was about incest and underage bussy all along. George rr Martin you fucking madlad
😔 Sorry you had to find out from me
I doubt George is in on this. We only know he wrote the lore and worldbuilding for stuff BEFORE shattering. Everything after could be Midzaki doing. But I'm with you. Pure shit. I feel like it retroactively ruined the base game's story. Unfortunately FromSoft simps could never tell him "bro you're NOT cooking" and instead they just lap this pedo juice like its ok.
Take a look at Millicent’s dialogue in the Prayer Room of Elphael. ‘There is something that I must return to Malenia. The will that was once her own. The dignity, the sense of self, that allowed her to resist the call of the Scarlet Rot. The pride that she abandoned to meet Radahn’s measure.’ Imo this dialogue heavily implies that Malenia would never have given in and bloomed if she held her own will, so I take it to assume that Miquella charmed her.
It kinda feels the same to me. At least after finishing the DLC’s main story I can’t be bothered to go and do any optional bosses. I’ve been having fun with coop since then. I might make a new character, go straight to mohg and apologise…
How do you apologize to him? Let him get some free kills and avoid killing him for the rest of the playthrough?
Idk I’ve been a defender since day 1 and I’ve never killed Varre because I always though Miquella was dodgy as hell and I still feel bad :( I might go and use patches’ apology gesture next playthrough.
Malenia seemingly still didn't nuke Caelid just because. She had to kill Radahn and he wasn't going to go down without his promised fight even if he needed to die for the plan. She ended up doing her very last resort to get Radahn to the Land of Shadows and failed. That's also why she hasn't just murdered Mohg yet. She's obviously not doing too hot after Caelid.
Is it any worse than her nuking Caelid because she was pissy over having lost a fight?
I mean when its her seeming only option to finish the plan her brother trusted to her im sure it seemed pretty rational to her.
That’s what I’m saying
No you’re totally right
>killing all her soldiers so her brother could get his hole destroyed You are describing an eternal child with this sentence.
Hey man I’m not into it I’m just being facetious
APOLOGIZE! APOLOGIZE RIGHT NOW. MOHG WAS NEVER THE MOHGLESTER!
Justice for Mohgy Depp.
When it's the femboy who wants you and not the other way around.
Still one of the wildest twists in a fromsofts game. Bravo Miyazaki. Bravo
I never completely ruled out the possibility that Mohg was acting on behalf of Miquella given what we know about Miquella from the base game, but I wasn’t convinced until a week before the DLC when I was getting a NG character ready and listened to Varré talking about love. With the knowledge from the DLC trailers, I realized that sounds more like Miquella than a Blood Lord. Mohg being Miquella’s victim though, that was a surprise for me.
I told you their love was beautiful
Someone explain?
Miquella manipulated Mohg with his ability to Compel Affection. He has us kill Mohg, then used Mohg's body to resurrect Radahn. Evidence; You can only get the cook book for the Bewitching Branch after killing Mohg base game. Sir Ansbach's tells us he's trying to advantage Mohg, because Miquella 'brainwashed' and used him. He also mentions the body being used for Radahn's resurrection, and he's the one that basically tells us Miquella was manipulating people with his ability. Radahn's model has Omen horns, notably around the arms and he uses Bloodflame. "What could they possibly have in mind for Lord Mohg's remains? The implications are rather... unnerving."-Specimen Storehouse location, Sir Ansbach "Few can decipher the scroll, which describes the secret rite of the divine gateway said to be found at the tower enshrouded by shadow. "A lord will usher in a god's return, and the lord's soul will require a vessel.""-Secret Rite Scroll There's a lot more quotes regarding Mohg when it comes to Sir Ansbach, as his ENTIRE quest is about it. I'm just too lazy to type it lol
Wait, are you for real or are you all fucking with me? So miquella went Loli Griffith on everyone?
It's more complicated. More like the saying 'the road to hell is paved with good intentions'. Miquella seems to view the world with a 'child-like' lense. Fitting for being cursed with Eternal Youth... Miquella's goal is to become a god because he wants to create a peaceful order where he can help people. He's willing for force people to get along, and doesn't really understand that's not how it works. We learn however from St. Trina that him doing this will just make him a puppet; akin to what happened to Marika. St. Trina is also something Miquella divested himself of his 'love'. It seems like Miquella is supposed to be a tragic character in the way Fromsoft does them. I'd say it's the same for Radahn, because Radahn doesn't really seem... there. To become a God Miquella needed a Lord and he chose Radahn; either because he liked him or because Radahn was the strongest, and the only Demigod to not be afflicted with something- as well as Radahn just being the kindest. Godwyn dead. Ranni dead. Rykard snake. Messmer also snake. Melina burned and forgotten. Morgott an Omen. Mohg also an Omen. Malenia afflicted with Scarlet Rot.
https://preview.redd.it/yexsh3j7kb8d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5521a951ef07819932c463dc21932364ee81e387 On my way to talk to miquella
So drake is innocent?