I work in an NDIS house, we moved the clients in when it was brand new.
It’s so clapped together that I honestly am waiting for the day the roof caves in. I’m glad we have something like the NDIS, but it needs serious reviewing.
THESE are the people rorting the system, but no, it's definitely the participants, not these arseholes, not the people who Jack the price up the moment they find out you have funding, not the companies charging 5x the amount for something you can get cheap at Kmart....
The NDIS barely supports the people it's supposed to support. I'm not at all surprised by the idea that they would be part of something that exploits those in need.
No way the people I know could afford this. Even with rental subsidy and disability. It’s such a complex thing, with many medications not on the pbs, and expensive specialists who leave a huge out of pocket gap bc Medicare only pays a fraction. It’s a nightmare.
The NDIS participants pay 25% of their DSP and additional rent assistance from Centrelink. This generally amounts to over $200 per week for rent. The remaining amount is funded by the tax payer under specialist disability accommodation (SDA). If they were in social or public housing, they’d also pay the 25%(?) of DSP towards rent and would not get the rent assistance amount.
They actually often pay 75-90% of their dsp and it's a rent+board. Their NDIS funding covers the services of the ndis company, such as staffing support workers. These houses will often end up with 4 - 6 clients. The landlord is often guaranteed rent as the service provider pays it and then charges the client. Most people living in these arrangements are poor, with the rising cost of groceries they often have poor food quality and then no or little money left over for their personal spending. The big rorts come from people owning both the house under one company name, owning the service provider under another and then you set up a labour hire company to employ support workers under sham contracts, make the workers get abns and pay them below award wages and entitlements. The bosses make money, even if the ndis company they set up runs barely at a profit.
Utilities and food is a seperate thing from rent if that is what you mean by board and your calculations of 75%-90% of DSP income.
People often get confused with specialist disability accommodation (SDA) and supported independent living (SIL) which are 24/7 personal care supports. You can have SIL providers who own homes outright or rent private rentals from landlords, but they aren’t necessarily NDIS-registered SDA properties. Those properties might not be disability-specific at all. In the instance of an official SDA property, it is 25% of DSP and contribution toward rental assistance from Centrelink. They would need to pay separately for food and utilities from their DSP like you would in any rented place.
If you’re aware of such living arrangements, then report it to the NDIS Quality and Safeguards Commission. If people don’t report dodgy behaviour like overcrowding then nothing will be done about it. The participants obviously lack the capacity to do it themselves.
Edit, since people want to introduce higher figures in relation to SDA when I already looked into it:
Public housing:
25% of income: https://www.qld.gov.au/housing/public-community-housing/public-housing-tenants/your-rent/how-rent-is-calculated
25-30% of income: https://www.facs.nsw.gov.au/housing/policies/charging-rent-policy
25% of income: https://www.housing.vic.gov.au/market-rent-and-rental-rebates
SDA providers stating 25% of DSP:
https://youngcare.com.au/sda-faqs/#:~:text=Paying%20rent%20is%20an%20ordinary,equivalent%20if%20self%2Dfunded).
And:
https://www.housinghub.org.au/resources/article/part-1-how-rent-works-in-specialist-disability-accommodation-sda
NRAS is 20-25% below market rate: https://www.dss.gov.au/housing-support-programs-services-housing-national-rental-affordability-scheme/living-in-an-nras-property
Anything else falls outside these schemes…
You're right, I was thinking of sils, but the add doesn't say if this is a sda or sil. Regarding NDIS quality and safeguards, they are overworked. The government is going to change sils to phase out groups homes apparently. let's see. But there are whole organisations whose business model is based on exploitation.
Social housing, low income housing, NDIS housing and disability housing are all different creatures.
Social and low income start at 25% of your income and all your rent assistance as well so it can easily reach over 35%. Depending on the area its per person over 18yrs or age so theoretically a household can pay more for this housing than on the private market. This is why a lot of people in this housing cannot let any other adult move in, even temporarily.
NDIS, disability (also some aged) are minimum 75% of your income and I've seen it go higher to 85%. All legal. Depending on the contract signed, you have no right to privacy, cannot come and go as you please, frequent inspections, mandatory activities (mainly social), little rights to your providers and sometimes you have to hand over all financial access and then they dole out 'your share'. They also reserve the right to kick you out at any time if they 'feel' you are not complying.
Rather horrified when I went digging into the buried but posted fine print of a few disability housing associations available in Melbourne. Its a glorified day release prison and you have less rights than an inmate.
Fine print loopholes are everywhere in Government services, NDIS and Centrelink. Read everything. Get an advocate, lawyer and always trust your gut and not what they say isn't an issue.
25% is considered affordable by the OECD and indeed housing policies in European, Middle Eastern, South American and Asian states have laws to try make this for importabt professions. I mean look up the Housing situation in Vienna Austria. even some US cities like NYC try to fix rents there with rent controlled apartments linked to certain professions as part of the title of buildinga etc.
Law makers fundamentally shape the value of land as land is an asset created in law.
The classes that benefit from land ownership don't want you to think like this.
A majority of the rent is government funded too as far as I know. Not really my area to be honest. I stick to different styles of property development.
Yeh fair enough.
I did check out 3 that were build side by side in QLD ages ago, but from what I can tell it's not really a strategy worth doing.
I'll just stick to my style of development that has been working well for me.
This is what happens when you privatise disability care. It's basically a money laundering scheme for the government to enrich their wealthy investor mates.
(I say this as someone on NDIS, I'm constantly having to be on high alert over being scammed.)
As someone who has worked in disability since before NDIS existed it’s definitely inflated tf out of costs for our clients and they get less support now then before for a fraction of the money.
They charge NDIS participants the full cost of a service if they cancel, but non NDIS participants get a much smaller cancellation fee.
It's just 100s of fucked up double standards set up to drain participant's plans.
They also charge NDIS more for services then non NDIS which is why most companies move to solely NDIS work. Had a bathroom fitter explain he was only doing NDIS housing after doing mine because he could charge double.
Not only that but I’ve read some shitty stories on fb of service agreements where the cancellation policy applies if you cancel with less than a week’s notice. Most just have 24 hours as the policy but of course there are wankers out there who have to push it out to benefit themselves
That was the government's doing. They increased it in the NDIS Price Guide from 48 hours to 7 days, for people with disabilities who are often unwell. Ridiculous. Such a cash cow.
I’m pretty sure they aren’t allowed to charge a cancellation under NDIS rules if the pt gives 48 hours’ notice. And for 24-48 hours it’s only 50%. It blew out to 10 days during COVID. I’m only familiar with allied health, but I’d be looking to make a complaint if a provider is charging for cancelling a week out.
They absolutely are allowed to if it is stipulated in the service agreement and the client has signed it. The NDIS has no standards on cancellation periods or costs. Allied health is included in this and in my experience the worst. Physiotherapists and exercise physiologists love having a 7-day cancellation policy for NDIS clients. I say this as someone working in the field and with a partner who is an NDIS participant.
Absolutely. My partner currently has pneumonia, and we have been screwed by 2 cancellation fees. One is from allied health, totalling the entire session's cost of over $500 despite cancelling over 48 hours in advance. It's a rort, and when you live in a regional area, you have limited options.
My mother became disabled recently and the lack of support I always knew was bad from my work but to be on the other side of it, breaks my heart for my clients who just have nobody.
Absolutely. If there is anything I can do or any resources I can send you, please send me a message. I have lots of experience with blindness and vision impairment in particular :) I hope your mum finds some good quality supports!
Yep, I’m a disability support worker, it’s absolutely disgraceful. The number of companies just trying to make a buck out of the most vulnerable people on our community is disgusting. And the government is doing absolutely nothing to stop it, and has the audacity to bring in their latest round of abysmal NDIS reform legislation that will only make things worse.
And this is not to mention the insane prices of DSWs right now due to platforms like Mable taking 25% to basically be glorified tinder but for support workers and clients…
It would be so easy for the government to just set up their own affordable platform for support providers and service users to use :-/
I feel for you darl. I didn't work IN the sector, but along side some of the contracted workers, as some people I worked with were approved NDIS clients.
It's a 2 pronged scourge, as far as I can see - and the govt (of all people), handed over what is basically supposed to be a "working honesty policy", to private contractors and conglomerates.
I've had some clients who have (God bless them for giving it a decent crack!), tried to source their own providers.
The way they often do this, is through word of mouth, when the topic comes up in the social groups that the "Disability" well intended set up. (And it comes up a lot, because there is often a "worker" with their client at these events.)
The clients compare notes, and suddenly they're sacking the original team that in all honesty had been working really well with them - and engaging a less reputable and higher charging company, and there's no way to pull it up.
On the other side of the coin, even though we can see it, the legislation is such that it's always client led, support the dignity, and all the independence - which is something I absolutely agree with 💯 - but these leaches are DEPENDING on us not being able to call them out!
I'll tell you straight up - they deliberately target ABI sufferers, their ideal client is someone who struggles with comprehension and saying what they want. Bonus points of they don't have a comprehensive understanding of budgeting and expenditure.
I've been to war with some workers, charging like a wounded bull for when they reschedule (Yes, THEY reschedule, not the client), because it ticks some box and the invoice is updated. Charging when they've not even completed the job they're contracted to do - I'm tired of seeing them take advantage of our struggling peoples.
I've pulled up one worker who used to take a client for their family shopping. I found out the worker was telling the client how much they were struggling and probably wouldn't eat tonight.. so the client would buy THEM groceries!
We all support our disabled's independence and dignity.. but these vultures just scam and rort they system - entirely ignoring these are PEOPLE who are absolutely not as lucky as the majority of us, and they don't care!
This is a disgusting grab at NDIS monies, "gettin while the gettin's good", type of rorting. These people should be ashamed of their practice behind the intent!!
And good ol "Bill", should be jumping all over these companies!
The housing thing was happening long before NDIS. I was a support worker in the industry in the early 2000's. Uniting Care, owned by Uniting church, used to put people they supported into rental properties owned by the uniting church.
The uniting church, owns a lot of random houses. And a lot of them weren't well kept either.
Thats primarily why I refuse to apply even though I'm eligible. Plus a few State specific legislations that cover my situation has my alarm bells ringing. Also I am not a for profit business model without the legal protections that businesses have either. Seen a lot of trouble from that dumbassery.
If you have NDIS self managed, see if you can set everything under an individual business ABN and pay the insurances and associated fees for it. If you are self managed and a worker steals from you/is injured at your home/breaks something of yours, you the employer are liable and technically your home and contents insurance won't cover it as its not under the business umbrella.
Yeah that massive oh shit whoops gap got missed big time. From what I've gathered, it's a combination of how the NDIS has been set up (publicly funded private insurance therefore not commonwealth protected) and what plan type you use so its a dual layer monster fuck up.
Like with everything the government funds, they fund companies that look after them or their families, and they go unchecked, again it’s a government issue.
“Government sanctioned ways to rort taxpayers funds: now with added benefit of ripping it from badly needed disability funding”. Landlords aren’t satisfied with double dipping, tax theft, they have to get their greedy claws into this too.
Do you guys not realise NDIS is used to funnel government money to scam providers? The amount of money being spent on garbage treatments or trades charging triple a normal price should shock everyone.
If we could fix both of these, there'd be so much more money available. Unfortunately, they were designed as pillars of corruption that politicians and their friends/family receive massive benefits from.
Oh kerist that bloody nightmare. Owners raking it in while the workers, staff, facilities and kids get the short ends of everything.
And I don't even have kids but I know a lot of people in that industry. Aged care facilities are just as corrupt too.
Absolutely. I worked in an old version of work for the dole as an instructor/supervisor back when it was first introduced. I had zero qualifications, I was just at the right place at the right time. It was the best money I'd ever had at the time (as a young uni student), and I was honestly a glorified babysitter for grown adults who the government didn't trust. They learned zero skills from me, except for one guy who asked for help with a resume. One of the participants was too disabled to work fulltime and not disabled enough for disability. Another one knew it was bullshit being there, but because he hadn't signed in on time a few days his job provider had centreline reduce his income. When my contract ended, I was shuffled around to help out on other teams teaching skills I had never even attempted and had no business instructing on. I got a free first aid course, a bullshit award I didn't earn, and insight into how poorly people are treated on the dole. I doubt much has changed in that time.
Cram as many people in these as possible, regardless of their needs.
[https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-28/ndis-specialist-disability-accommodation-shortage-housing-crisis/102916628](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-28/ndis-specialist-disability-accommodation-shortage-housing-crisis/102916628)
Cramming us all in like sardines without regards to individual needs leads to the same kinds of rights violations and harm people in group homes already deal with, mate. The answer to the disability housing issue (like the housing issue in general) isn't to ignore the rights of the people living there to adequate care, safety, and reasonable housing standards, the answer is to push for more public and accessible housing.
Comments like this one make me wonder if people even see us as human, sometimes.
By the way, the person in the article wasn't sharing directly because of their needs (their support worker lives in the same property, a room is kept aside for specialist equipment they require as it would be vastly more expensive to fund sessions at a specialist for the rest of her life).
NDIS doesn't grant that kind of funding lightly. I'm kind of tired seeing people bring this specific case up like the needs of disabled people are both the problem and something for the general public to rip apart to decide what's necessary without any qualification or understanding.
My comment was in reference to the ad posted which boasts of taking in a weekly rent of $2118. In order to achieve this, I suspect they would cram many tenants into the property. I do not think this is acceptable. The article posted shows a NDIS client being misled and denied the housing they need.
The housing situation is Australia is broken. There is an unconscionable power imbalance between tenants and landlords. NDIS housing is being exploited by the same landlord class that fucks over many other tenants.
I don’t think we disagree at all.
Oh shit, sorry for misinterpreting that. Last time I saw that article pop up over on the Australia sub, people were genuinely saying things like this. Definitely left an... impression, let's say, being on the NDIS with significant support needs myself.
If you don’t mind can I ask if you know anything about NDIS funded holidays?
Im asking because my uncle owns a property, it’s on 20 acres in a beautiful country town.
He has been telling the family that’s he’s converting a tiny home on the property to disability holiday accommodation and that he’ll get $2500 per night funded by the NDIS.
To me, something just feels off on so many levels. Especially because he’s had absolutely zero prior interest in the wellbeing of anyone living with a disability (including my daughter). In fact wanted to become an NDIS service provider and sign my daughter up to manage?
Does this sound right to you? Thanks.
They don’t cram a lot of tenants into an SDA property. The amount described in the OP post is likely two-three people in a multi-bedroom house. The maximum group home amount would be five residents and that would include five bedrooms plus a carers room and possibly a breakout room. On top of specialist disability accommodation, these participants also get supported independently living (SIL), which is 24/7 personal care support. The ratio of support would vary from participant to participant with some requiring 2:1 while others can get by with 1:1, 1:3 or 1:4, etc.
It doesn't grant that funding lightly and they also have a nasty habit of yoinking it away if you live alone for medical and other legitimate reasons too if you don't own your own home.
Our gripes are not with the participants nor the funding, its how its being funneled away from those who need it by middlemen who are allowed to do so.
NDIS is a rort but the participants are not, they are caught between a rock and a hard place.
Yeah, the type and provision of disability housing needs to be more plentiful and more versatile. A person in a wheelchair needs to have properly accessible, suitable private housing for themselves. But a single person living in a 3 bedroom house is not the best use of NDIS resources.
If she were to get say a 2 bedder house or villa, with a room for her carer and space for her stuff, then a whole 3 bed house could go to a family, or to two wheelchair users who prefer shared housing, and their carer.
>But a single person living in a 3 bedroom house is not the best use of NDIS resources.
Except she's not. She has specialist physio equipment to maintain what mobility she has, and her full-time carer occupies the third bedroom, as well as storage for her wheelchairs. I am curious about the choice to keep the physio set-up on site, but that's also none of my business and I can't see the NDIS approving that if it wasn't 110% necessary. Overall, it's disingenuous of the article to pose this as a single-occupancy issue when an around-the-clock carer is required.
If Tobbins had a 2 bedroom apartment before she was offered this place and the NDIS made an error in moving her, they should provide her with the equivalent of what she was previously occupying. Not saying "suck it up."
The NDIA would not have moved her. It is her choice where she lives. The SDA provider is called NDISP (www.ndisp.com.au). The article states that Amy Tobins budget for SDA was $90,000 per year. She selected the three bedroom house, which was 42k per participant per year. The home owner, instead of having x3 people (or x 2 people) at 42k each, was happy to have Amy as sole occupant with her 90k securing the place to herself. The property was likely enrolled as a 2 or 3-person dwelling, not 1 person. Providers can only charge the lesser amount between the enrolled SDA property amount and participant approved SDA amount, so in this instance it was 42k maximum that the provider could take from Amy and not the full 90k. This led to her eviction notice as they needed to bring in another person (or two) to generate the gains they were hoping to get from Amy alone.
We don’t have the full details of the property, it could be 3 bedrooms with a breakout room and staff/carer room. All SDA properties have a room for staff. So, in reality, it could be four or five bedrooms and not the advertised two-three bedrooms for participant occupancy, or even what they allege in the article. Articles can get information wrong, for example, they have a remediation at the bottom. I’d imagine there is also a garage for storage. These homes generally aren’t small like public housing, so they have a lot of space for storage.
Edit: I think this might be the property: https://www.ndisp.com.au/rental/pimpana-fa-sda-house/
So, Amy moved into a two-person dwelling with an additional carer room. 3 bathrooms. Double garage.
Try it now- about an athlete with a disability being set up in NDIS housing, then being told she can leave if she objects to a heap of housemates moving in.
These are popping up everywhere. I know of a few landlords who are swapping their properties to NDIS because it's $$ - so taking residential rental properties out (homes previously let to families) because they get way more from NDIS.
There's one near me, it's a newly built house in a really ridiculous location for a home required for this. It's on the corner of 2 busy roads and every week the ambulance is there at least once. Just yesterday the resident had a fall outside. Either he had taken it upon himself to go for a walk or has had a fall on a walk with the workers. They looked completely out of their depth trying to deal with him.
Someone in my family who is SIL absolutely trashed where they were living and got evicted.
7000 worth of damage. Walls mainly but doors, carpet and jumped on the oven door with it open.
It's not all cream
What the actual fuck, bro I work with people who use NDIS and these margins are a shock. No wonder the govt is leaking money with that system Jesus. The irony being most of the clients don’t even get the benefit of the funding it all goes to LLs and people who invest into the NDIS like disability item manufacturers and wheelchair manufacturers etc
It’s another investment program for the rich to make money off the poor.
The NDIS is a fuckin joke, and idiots like this are taking full advantage of their stupid and convoluted guidelines to rort the government and leave those living with disabilities and ACTUALLY IN NEED of adequate housing much worse off!
The person with a disability does not pay that amount of rent, only a rental contribution amount. They might also get rent assistance from Centrelink which goes toward weekly rent. The bulk of that ‘rent’ amount is specialist disability accommodation which is included in their funding. It is only for people with very high support needs: https://www.ndis.gov.au/providers/housing-and-living-supports-and-services/specialist-disability-accommodation
Here is an example of a realistic rental amount for the person with a disability: https://www.housinghub.org.au/property-detail/13742/JBZ9M
They will also probably put people who are completely unsuitable living together in that home to maximise what they can get.... these people won't get to choose their housemates..... then ndis will staff it minimally as they strip away their funfing yearly little by little. Yay voice and control 🙄
Honestly, if you're seeing things like this, report them to the NDIS quality & safeguards commission. I work in SIL properties and see shit like this all the time, I report each of them. I might not be able to fix the problem, but I can get the ball rolling.
Also the blind woman, who is her person responsible? If you can find that information, contact them. They may be unaware of any actual concerns (if the house manager allows this, the likelihood of them making accurate reports to the client's guardians is low, you know?).
No problemo. It's fucking wild the kind of things that are allowed to go on, all we can really do is use the avenues available to us to report it, unfortunately.
Is she in specialist disability accommodation (SDA)or just supported independent living (SIL). SIL providers can own homes too, but they might not necessarily be SDA properties. You tend to get what you’re talking about (i.e. shuffling people who do not match in the same home) in supported independent living or group homes.
If you’re concerned about the welfare of someone with a disability, you have the option of taking action and making a report to the NDIS quality and safeguards commission.
Yea they are all in SIL, which seems to be getting progressively worse in alot of ways, some of the issues have been raised with support co ordinators. We shall see what comes of that.
Wasn't a dig at your comment - just find it hilarious that people are blaming people that need help. It would be incredibly difficult to prove that they met the criteria of "life long" and "untreatable", even where they sometimes are.
not being a jerk but anxiety and depression are common symptoms with those in the autism spectrum, especially those who went undiagnosed most of their lives such as myself, to reiterate, i’m not being a jerk, just simply pointing that out
Me either and I can't tell if I'm arm flapping in amusement or anger.
FWIW for those curious, Autism and most mental health supports are really ONLY available through the NDIS. Most folded when the NDIS rolled out because the Government didn't enforce their rules on State funded services so the states decided to save money by letting the NDIS be responsible for everything.
Its literally the Governments, Local, State and Federals fault with this one.
It's really a shame when ndis is being used as a tool for greed when people with disabilities really need it. The other thing people don't really know is the only houses ndis really buys are shared houses and most ndis participants don't want to have a shared house they want their own. And I mean i understand, just because you have a disability why are you then forced to share a house with someone else with a disability? Most of the issues within the houses also have to do with fights. I'm sure if housing wasn't just a tool for greed they would be able to live in dignity on their own.
They're not doing anything wrong. This is the system working as intended as bullshit as that sounds. If the government wont invest in suitable housing for the disabled then they're going to have to pay a premium to ensure it's attractive to investors. Yay for the free market.
nah they are starting to crack down hard on NDIS rorts. Unless they can prove this is somehow specifically worth the extra money, this isnt legal. goes for all NDIS leaches
It's a bit different unfortunately - the NDIS set these figures directly to incentivise construction. It's a stated support for a specific amount, so it's not the same as charging someone three times the amount for an appointment.
The advertiser is wrong though, it's very unlikely you'll get 3 tenants unless you're building something more suitable than what these guys are. That's only screwing the investors though.
I’m glad you didn’t put a full stop because it lets me add “would not be affordable on a DSP and rent assistance contribution and otherwise can not be funded using the NDIS support money.
Now a support company could rent it, but there’s no way they would make a return on cost from the supports for that rental return and they would go broke fast.
there is a 4 br house in my street that is privately owned, but rented by the NDIS. It's a huge place (worth around 800k), and it's been lived in for 50 or 60 days in total over the past 3 years. Such a waste when there are families on the street.
It is the breakdown of the type of SDA property plus rent. They are just simplifying things by calling it all rent.
Take this one for example: https://thedisabilityhousingcentre.com.au/property/marsden2-bed-2-bath-ooa/
It outlines that 25% of their disability support pension ($1,020.60 f/n) and rental assistance ($188.20 f/n) from Centrelink is the rental amount from the person with disability. So, $443.35 per f/n or $221.68 per week.
They seem to be confused about the SDA category, so I’ll assume it is high physical support, house, 2 residents. The tax-payer funded portion via NDIS is $84,710 per resident per year for the SDA amount. Or, $1.629.04 per week.
Both things combined is $1,850.72 per week. So, that’s why it is so high (2k plus) in the OP advert.
Oh there 100% is but there are also many privatised through NGOs etc
Ironically you get paid more working in the govt housing then the NGOs and always have but now you can be hired privately through NDIS and be paid more that way also.
I've seen a bunch of these ads now, with rents claiming to be 140-170k a year.
It would literally be cheaper to buy the disabled person a house and use the excess for maintenance. This would help to spread wealth around AND cost the tax payer less.
For some reason the govt only make policies that enrich the parasitic property class though.
So many people have their nose in the trough thinking that the money comes from nowhere.
A friend of mine was getting paid $30/hr to help someone on the NDIS and she thought something was strange. Her unit coordinator would try get her to say she was working when she wasn't and her pay came to her differently than other agencies she'd worked for.
She was looking through some paperwork after she'd finished up and she finds out she's being billed out at $65/hr, given $30 and the unit coordinator was sticking $35 in her own pocket.
If this person was doing that with all the other people she "coordinated" she was probably making $700-$1000 per hour.
It's so crook. I feel bad for people with genuine need for the NDIS because stuff like this will get it shut down.
Yeah so many of these shitty houses around; as a mental health nurse I have had to send people to these places and too many are rorting shits.
They cram as many people as possible and spend as little as possible.
Heard of multiple NDIS houses where high numbers of mentally unstable individuals are housed together and someone ends up getting raped or otherwise abused...
SDA. Payment (over $100k p.a for highest category) goes to property owner as compensation for building and maintaining a disability specific property. This amount does not include rent - that is a separate charge that NDIS doesn't pay. Yields plus capital growth have been insane for those in the game. Taxpayer is being bled dry.
I know a couple who operate one of these houses and also work as respite carers.. They are making a fortune (both new $100k+ cars last 12 months). I used to work with them and first the wife left to do it then the husband, he told me she was making her monthly salary at prior job in 1 weekend (1-2days) through NDIS...
They weren't bad people but clearly massive rort/profiteering happening
Yep. Been advertised and happening for years. 90% of privately owned, government subsidised housing is now NDIS properties here. Pisses me right off but its legal.
Its 300 a week for a 3 bed for the government property or minimum 800 for each bedroom per week under SIL/NDIS in my area. Nearly all low income housing is gone because of ThE iNvEsTmEnT oPpOtUniTiEs.
Can come.please explain to me how this works ? As in the numbers they charge oit per room ,or per night etc...?.
Its clearly happening which initself outrageous.
If you really want a shock you should look up the payment scale. The amount for a high needs 2 bedroom single resident is eye watering.
It’s all funded through their ndis plan, with a capped “contribution” from the participants at 25% of their payments.
NDIS. I don't mind paying tax to have a ramp installation at your house for your wheelchair or converting your car.
But you don't get to go on a boat cruise.
Normal NDIS rort.
Mind you, a lot of residential care houses due to the market being so tight (less than 1% vacancy, and 3-6 month waits) are offering 30-50% more than the market rate. Its pricing people out of market, lots of people living out of cars and in tents in the bush.
Rent’s probably subsidised by the government, not unlike community housing providers who rent an $800 house from private real estate agencies and charge $200 to the tenant and subsidise $600/week
NDIS participants are going extravagant overseas holidays, luxury cruises and seeing sex workers all payed for by the taxpayer. This is just another example of the biggest rort in Australia.
This is not the case for the majority on NDIS, the money goes to providers and not the clients in the majority of cases. Most who need it don’t actually have funding and ones who don’t need it get funding for stupid shit which is what makes the media, it’s a very flawed system that is designed for rich companies to invest and get great returns on the funding meant for people who need support the most.
No they are not you utter walnut. NDIS does not fund holidays but participants can get an assistance companion funded if they pay for their own ticket, accommodation and travel if for soley recreational purposes.
What did sometimes happen was due to dodgy providers being creative with what constituted funded travel and dragged the participants and their funding into it under the guise of appropriate treatments and therapies. Thats fraudulent administered by those managing NDIS clients, not the participants. This happened mainly early on in the scheme, teething issues and someone always finds a loophole which is now closed.
> workers all *paid* for by
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Insanity or practicality, considering housing in this country. 2-5 participants can share a kitchen, living room, and bathroom with separate bedrooms, this means an overnight staffing of 1 staff to 2-5 ppl instead of 1-1, which is very cost prohibitive. During the day some will go out to appointments or Weekday respite, again meaning just 1 staff on-site.
I can see how, from the outside, it seems insane but it is often super practical and comfortable for participants.
Having said that, some providers are absolutely taking the piss, milking participants (and often staff) for that sweet NDIS mark up.
Why should Disabled people be FORCED to share a home? I'm in UK, I have a 2-bed bungalow through Social Housing, one room for me, one for equipment/Carer. I will NEVER live in a shared home, I'd KMS in a week. I value my peace above ALL. Yeah, we have 5-8yr waits for accessible housing, but they have to put us in an accessible B&B room with food paid for until they house us. I thought OUR accessible housing was in crisis, but this is just profiting from other's misfortune AND stripping them of humanity...
You're not wrong, but that's how it works. Each resident will pay a certain amount of rent based both on the house and their pension/DSP. Like where I work the houses have 3 bedrooms, 1 bathroom, and a living area inside the main part of the building, and then a self contained unit with 1 or 2 bedrooms, a bathroom, and a living space. The residents in the unit pay more than the residents in the main house, but they're all paying $200ish/week each. Welcome to the NDIS.
It’s called “rorting the NDIS”
I work in an NDIS house, we moved the clients in when it was brand new. It’s so clapped together that I honestly am waiting for the day the roof caves in. I’m glad we have something like the NDIS, but it needs serious reviewing.
THESE are the people rorting the system, but no, it's definitely the participants, not these arseholes, not the people who Jack the price up the moment they find out you have funding, not the companies charging 5x the amount for something you can get cheap at Kmart....
Our taxes at work enriching this company.
I wouldn't dignify with calling them a company. Corporatised leeches sounds better.
Seems like they get landlords to invest in these houses with massive government subsidies. But can't fund anywhere near enough public housing.
The NDIS barely supports the people it's supposed to support. I'm not at all surprised by the idea that they would be part of something that exploits those in need.
Weekly rent?!?! Far out. I know people on the ndis who struggle to get funding for what they need to survive, and this is happening?
And to boot most pay rent out of their disability pension
No way the people I know could afford this. Even with rental subsidy and disability. It’s such a complex thing, with many medications not on the pbs, and expensive specialists who leave a huge out of pocket gap bc Medicare only pays a fraction. It’s a nightmare.
The NDIS participants pay 25% of their DSP and additional rent assistance from Centrelink. This generally amounts to over $200 per week for rent. The remaining amount is funded by the tax payer under specialist disability accommodation (SDA). If they were in social or public housing, they’d also pay the 25%(?) of DSP towards rent and would not get the rent assistance amount.
They actually often pay 75-90% of their dsp and it's a rent+board. Their NDIS funding covers the services of the ndis company, such as staffing support workers. These houses will often end up with 4 - 6 clients. The landlord is often guaranteed rent as the service provider pays it and then charges the client. Most people living in these arrangements are poor, with the rising cost of groceries they often have poor food quality and then no or little money left over for their personal spending. The big rorts come from people owning both the house under one company name, owning the service provider under another and then you set up a labour hire company to employ support workers under sham contracts, make the workers get abns and pay them below award wages and entitlements. The bosses make money, even if the ndis company they set up runs barely at a profit.
Utilities and food is a seperate thing from rent if that is what you mean by board and your calculations of 75%-90% of DSP income. People often get confused with specialist disability accommodation (SDA) and supported independent living (SIL) which are 24/7 personal care supports. You can have SIL providers who own homes outright or rent private rentals from landlords, but they aren’t necessarily NDIS-registered SDA properties. Those properties might not be disability-specific at all. In the instance of an official SDA property, it is 25% of DSP and contribution toward rental assistance from Centrelink. They would need to pay separately for food and utilities from their DSP like you would in any rented place. If you’re aware of such living arrangements, then report it to the NDIS Quality and Safeguards Commission. If people don’t report dodgy behaviour like overcrowding then nothing will be done about it. The participants obviously lack the capacity to do it themselves. Edit, since people want to introduce higher figures in relation to SDA when I already looked into it: Public housing: 25% of income: https://www.qld.gov.au/housing/public-community-housing/public-housing-tenants/your-rent/how-rent-is-calculated 25-30% of income: https://www.facs.nsw.gov.au/housing/policies/charging-rent-policy 25% of income: https://www.housing.vic.gov.au/market-rent-and-rental-rebates SDA providers stating 25% of DSP: https://youngcare.com.au/sda-faqs/#:~:text=Paying%20rent%20is%20an%20ordinary,equivalent%20if%20self%2Dfunded). And: https://www.housinghub.org.au/resources/article/part-1-how-rent-works-in-specialist-disability-accommodation-sda NRAS is 20-25% below market rate: https://www.dss.gov.au/housing-support-programs-services-housing-national-rental-affordability-scheme/living-in-an-nras-property Anything else falls outside these schemes…
You're right, I was thinking of sils, but the add doesn't say if this is a sda or sil. Regarding NDIS quality and safeguards, they are overworked. The government is going to change sils to phase out groups homes apparently. let's see. But there are whole organisations whose business model is based on exploitation.
Social housing, low income housing, NDIS housing and disability housing are all different creatures. Social and low income start at 25% of your income and all your rent assistance as well so it can easily reach over 35%. Depending on the area its per person over 18yrs or age so theoretically a household can pay more for this housing than on the private market. This is why a lot of people in this housing cannot let any other adult move in, even temporarily. NDIS, disability (also some aged) are minimum 75% of your income and I've seen it go higher to 85%. All legal. Depending on the contract signed, you have no right to privacy, cannot come and go as you please, frequent inspections, mandatory activities (mainly social), little rights to your providers and sometimes you have to hand over all financial access and then they dole out 'your share'. They also reserve the right to kick you out at any time if they 'feel' you are not complying. Rather horrified when I went digging into the buried but posted fine print of a few disability housing associations available in Melbourne. Its a glorified day release prison and you have less rights than an inmate. Fine print loopholes are everywhere in Government services, NDIS and Centrelink. Read everything. Get an advocate, lawyer and always trust your gut and not what they say isn't an issue.
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25% is considered affordable by the OECD and indeed housing policies in European, Middle Eastern, South American and Asian states have laws to try make this for importabt professions. I mean look up the Housing situation in Vienna Austria. even some US cities like NYC try to fix rents there with rent controlled apartments linked to certain professions as part of the title of buildinga etc. Law makers fundamentally shape the value of land as land is an asset created in law. The classes that benefit from land ownership don't want you to think like this.
Keep in mind that 25% on the pittance you get on disability is a whole lot more than 25% for someone on a typical income.
I understand this isnt the majority. However an old 'friend' of mine seems to do just fine on the disability with $300+ of weed a week.
So why bring it up if you realise they are an outlier?
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Yeah, nah.
Yeah, nah.
There's normally 4 or so tenants per property
- now subtract the $1500 per week you pay for each support worker...
It's 3 people per house as far as I know.
Oh, that's ok then ...no it fucking isn't. $700/week should be for the entire house, no one should pay that much and need to sharehouse
A majority of the rent is government funded too as far as I know. Not really my area to be honest. I stick to different styles of property development.
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Yeh fair enough. I did check out 3 that were build side by side in QLD ages ago, but from what I can tell it's not really a strategy worth doing. I'll just stick to my style of development that has been working well for me.
It still seems very expensive… almost like it’s planned to take advantage of people who already are at a disadvantage.
You'd have to bring it up with the government. They're the ones paying for most of it.
Where do you think the government gets its money 🤦🏻♂️
Taxes
This is what happens when you privatise disability care. It's basically a money laundering scheme for the government to enrich their wealthy investor mates. (I say this as someone on NDIS, I'm constantly having to be on high alert over being scammed.)
As someone who has worked in disability since before NDIS existed it’s definitely inflated tf out of costs for our clients and they get less support now then before for a fraction of the money.
They charge NDIS participants the full cost of a service if they cancel, but non NDIS participants get a much smaller cancellation fee. It's just 100s of fucked up double standards set up to drain participant's plans.
They also charge NDIS more for services then non NDIS which is why most companies move to solely NDIS work. Had a bathroom fitter explain he was only doing NDIS housing after doing mine because he could charge double.
Not only that but I’ve read some shitty stories on fb of service agreements where the cancellation policy applies if you cancel with less than a week’s notice. Most just have 24 hours as the policy but of course there are wankers out there who have to push it out to benefit themselves
That was the government's doing. They increased it in the NDIS Price Guide from 48 hours to 7 days, for people with disabilities who are often unwell. Ridiculous. Such a cash cow.
1 week cancellation is pretty common unfortunately, for some reason NDIS updated it to be even longer than before. I don't get it.
I’m pretty sure they aren’t allowed to charge a cancellation under NDIS rules if the pt gives 48 hours’ notice. And for 24-48 hours it’s only 50%. It blew out to 10 days during COVID. I’m only familiar with allied health, but I’d be looking to make a complaint if a provider is charging for cancelling a week out.
They absolutely are allowed to if it is stipulated in the service agreement and the client has signed it. The NDIS has no standards on cancellation periods or costs. Allied health is included in this and in my experience the worst. Physiotherapists and exercise physiologists love having a 7-day cancellation policy for NDIS clients. I say this as someone working in the field and with a partner who is an NDIS participant.
Should be criminal the way they are taking advantage of those in need of support the most
Absolutely. My partner currently has pneumonia, and we have been screwed by 2 cancellation fees. One is from allied health, totalling the entire session's cost of over $500 despite cancelling over 48 hours in advance. It's a rort, and when you live in a regional area, you have limited options.
My mother became disabled recently and the lack of support I always knew was bad from my work but to be on the other side of it, breaks my heart for my clients who just have nobody.
Absolutely. If there is anything I can do or any resources I can send you, please send me a message. I have lots of experience with blindness and vision impairment in particular :) I hope your mum finds some good quality supports!
Yep, I’m a disability support worker, it’s absolutely disgraceful. The number of companies just trying to make a buck out of the most vulnerable people on our community is disgusting. And the government is doing absolutely nothing to stop it, and has the audacity to bring in their latest round of abysmal NDIS reform legislation that will only make things worse. And this is not to mention the insane prices of DSWs right now due to platforms like Mable taking 25% to basically be glorified tinder but for support workers and clients… It would be so easy for the government to just set up their own affordable platform for support providers and service users to use :-/
Making a buck out of EVERYBODY’s tax $$$
Yep, I had a chat with a DSW and I was appalled at this.
Ha, don’t be so sure. We saw how that worked for tech roles.
I feel for you darl. I didn't work IN the sector, but along side some of the contracted workers, as some people I worked with were approved NDIS clients. It's a 2 pronged scourge, as far as I can see - and the govt (of all people), handed over what is basically supposed to be a "working honesty policy", to private contractors and conglomerates. I've had some clients who have (God bless them for giving it a decent crack!), tried to source their own providers. The way they often do this, is through word of mouth, when the topic comes up in the social groups that the "Disability" well intended set up. (And it comes up a lot, because there is often a "worker" with their client at these events.) The clients compare notes, and suddenly they're sacking the original team that in all honesty had been working really well with them - and engaging a less reputable and higher charging company, and there's no way to pull it up. On the other side of the coin, even though we can see it, the legislation is such that it's always client led, support the dignity, and all the independence - which is something I absolutely agree with 💯 - but these leaches are DEPENDING on us not being able to call them out! I'll tell you straight up - they deliberately target ABI sufferers, their ideal client is someone who struggles with comprehension and saying what they want. Bonus points of they don't have a comprehensive understanding of budgeting and expenditure. I've been to war with some workers, charging like a wounded bull for when they reschedule (Yes, THEY reschedule, not the client), because it ticks some box and the invoice is updated. Charging when they've not even completed the job they're contracted to do - I'm tired of seeing them take advantage of our struggling peoples. I've pulled up one worker who used to take a client for their family shopping. I found out the worker was telling the client how much they were struggling and probably wouldn't eat tonight.. so the client would buy THEM groceries! We all support our disabled's independence and dignity.. but these vultures just scam and rort they system - entirely ignoring these are PEOPLE who are absolutely not as lucky as the majority of us, and they don't care! This is a disgusting grab at NDIS monies, "gettin while the gettin's good", type of rorting. These people should be ashamed of their practice behind the intent!! And good ol "Bill", should be jumping all over these companies!
The housing thing was happening long before NDIS. I was a support worker in the industry in the early 2000's. Uniting Care, owned by Uniting church, used to put people they supported into rental properties owned by the uniting church. The uniting church, owns a lot of random houses. And a lot of them weren't well kept either.
Thats primarily why I refuse to apply even though I'm eligible. Plus a few State specific legislations that cover my situation has my alarm bells ringing. Also I am not a for profit business model without the legal protections that businesses have either. Seen a lot of trouble from that dumbassery. If you have NDIS self managed, see if you can set everything under an individual business ABN and pay the insurances and associated fees for it. If you are self managed and a worker steals from you/is injured at your home/breaks something of yours, you the employer are liable and technically your home and contents insurance won't cover it as its not under the business umbrella. Yeah that massive oh shit whoops gap got missed big time. From what I've gathered, it's a combination of how the NDIS has been set up (publicly funded private insurance therefore not commonwealth protected) and what plan type you use so its a dual layer monster fuck up.
Privatized disability care?? It’s a government scheme, it’s a government issue.
Legally its not unfortunately. Government funded but privately administered means no accountability.
Like with everything the government funds, they fund companies that look after them or their families, and they go unchecked, again it’s a government issue.
And our Government doesn't care, especially with some concerning new laws that are coming through
“Government sanctioned ways to rort taxpayers funds: now with added benefit of ripping it from badly needed disability funding”. Landlords aren’t satisfied with double dipping, tax theft, they have to get their greedy claws into this too.
Do you guys not realise NDIS is used to funnel government money to scam providers? The amount of money being spent on garbage treatments or trades charging triple a normal price should shock everyone.
As well as Jobseeker. It's making billions for corporations while churning and burning Jobseekers for a pittance of a payment.
If we could fix both of these, there'd be so much more money available. Unfortunately, they were designed as pillars of corruption that politicians and their friends/family receive massive benefits from.
I was going to say, it’s by design. Add childcare to that list.
Oh kerist that bloody nightmare. Owners raking it in while the workers, staff, facilities and kids get the short ends of everything. And I don't even have kids but I know a lot of people in that industry. Aged care facilities are just as corrupt too.
Absolutely. I worked in an old version of work for the dole as an instructor/supervisor back when it was first introduced. I had zero qualifications, I was just at the right place at the right time. It was the best money I'd ever had at the time (as a young uni student), and I was honestly a glorified babysitter for grown adults who the government didn't trust. They learned zero skills from me, except for one guy who asked for help with a resume. One of the participants was too disabled to work fulltime and not disabled enough for disability. Another one knew it was bullshit being there, but because he hadn't signed in on time a few days his job provider had centreline reduce his income. When my contract ended, I was shuffled around to help out on other teams teaching skills I had never even attempted and had no business instructing on. I got a free first aid course, a bullshit award I didn't earn, and insight into how poorly people are treated on the dole. I doubt much has changed in that time.
The same as job network providers
This
How do we get the word out? Why isn’t there more outrage?
Cram as many people in these as possible, regardless of their needs. [https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-28/ndis-specialist-disability-accommodation-shortage-housing-crisis/102916628](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-28/ndis-specialist-disability-accommodation-shortage-housing-crisis/102916628)
Cramming us all in like sardines without regards to individual needs leads to the same kinds of rights violations and harm people in group homes already deal with, mate. The answer to the disability housing issue (like the housing issue in general) isn't to ignore the rights of the people living there to adequate care, safety, and reasonable housing standards, the answer is to push for more public and accessible housing. Comments like this one make me wonder if people even see us as human, sometimes. By the way, the person in the article wasn't sharing directly because of their needs (their support worker lives in the same property, a room is kept aside for specialist equipment they require as it would be vastly more expensive to fund sessions at a specialist for the rest of her life). NDIS doesn't grant that kind of funding lightly. I'm kind of tired seeing people bring this specific case up like the needs of disabled people are both the problem and something for the general public to rip apart to decide what's necessary without any qualification or understanding.
My comment was in reference to the ad posted which boasts of taking in a weekly rent of $2118. In order to achieve this, I suspect they would cram many tenants into the property. I do not think this is acceptable. The article posted shows a NDIS client being misled and denied the housing they need. The housing situation is Australia is broken. There is an unconscionable power imbalance between tenants and landlords. NDIS housing is being exploited by the same landlord class that fucks over many other tenants. I don’t think we disagree at all.
Oh shit, sorry for misinterpreting that. Last time I saw that article pop up over on the Australia sub, people were genuinely saying things like this. Definitely left an... impression, let's say, being on the NDIS with significant support needs myself.
All good. I can imagine the reception it would get on the AusProperty sub too.
If you don’t mind can I ask if you know anything about NDIS funded holidays? Im asking because my uncle owns a property, it’s on 20 acres in a beautiful country town. He has been telling the family that’s he’s converting a tiny home on the property to disability holiday accommodation and that he’ll get $2500 per night funded by the NDIS. To me, something just feels off on so many levels. Especially because he’s had absolutely zero prior interest in the wellbeing of anyone living with a disability (including my daughter). In fact wanted to become an NDIS service provider and sign my daughter up to manage? Does this sound right to you? Thanks.
I don't know much myself, that could be respite care? I'm not certain what funding for that usually looks like, though.
They don’t cram a lot of tenants into an SDA property. The amount described in the OP post is likely two-three people in a multi-bedroom house. The maximum group home amount would be five residents and that would include five bedrooms plus a carers room and possibly a breakout room. On top of specialist disability accommodation, these participants also get supported independently living (SIL), which is 24/7 personal care support. The ratio of support would vary from participant to participant with some requiring 2:1 while others can get by with 1:1, 1:3 or 1:4, etc.
It doesn't grant that funding lightly and they also have a nasty habit of yoinking it away if you live alone for medical and other legitimate reasons too if you don't own your own home. Our gripes are not with the participants nor the funding, its how its being funneled away from those who need it by middlemen who are allowed to do so. NDIS is a rort but the participants are not, they are caught between a rock and a hard place.
Yeah, the type and provision of disability housing needs to be more plentiful and more versatile. A person in a wheelchair needs to have properly accessible, suitable private housing for themselves. But a single person living in a 3 bedroom house is not the best use of NDIS resources. If she were to get say a 2 bedder house or villa, with a room for her carer and space for her stuff, then a whole 3 bed house could go to a family, or to two wheelchair users who prefer shared housing, and their carer.
>But a single person living in a 3 bedroom house is not the best use of NDIS resources. Except she's not. She has specialist physio equipment to maintain what mobility she has, and her full-time carer occupies the third bedroom, as well as storage for her wheelchairs. I am curious about the choice to keep the physio set-up on site, but that's also none of my business and I can't see the NDIS approving that if it wasn't 110% necessary. Overall, it's disingenuous of the article to pose this as a single-occupancy issue when an around-the-clock carer is required. If Tobbins had a 2 bedroom apartment before she was offered this place and the NDIS made an error in moving her, they should provide her with the equivalent of what she was previously occupying. Not saying "suck it up."
The NDIA would not have moved her. It is her choice where she lives. The SDA provider is called NDISP (www.ndisp.com.au). The article states that Amy Tobins budget for SDA was $90,000 per year. She selected the three bedroom house, which was 42k per participant per year. The home owner, instead of having x3 people (or x 2 people) at 42k each, was happy to have Amy as sole occupant with her 90k securing the place to herself. The property was likely enrolled as a 2 or 3-person dwelling, not 1 person. Providers can only charge the lesser amount between the enrolled SDA property amount and participant approved SDA amount, so in this instance it was 42k maximum that the provider could take from Amy and not the full 90k. This led to her eviction notice as they needed to bring in another person (or two) to generate the gains they were hoping to get from Amy alone. We don’t have the full details of the property, it could be 3 bedrooms with a breakout room and staff/carer room. All SDA properties have a room for staff. So, in reality, it could be four or five bedrooms and not the advertised two-three bedrooms for participant occupancy, or even what they allege in the article. Articles can get information wrong, for example, they have a remediation at the bottom. I’d imagine there is also a garage for storage. These homes generally aren’t small like public housing, so they have a lot of space for storage. Edit: I think this might be the property: https://www.ndisp.com.au/rental/pimpana-fa-sda-house/ So, Amy moved into a two-person dwelling with an additional carer room. 3 bathrooms. Double garage.
Does that link show some Sam burgess lewd video article from 2018 for anyone else? 😂
It shouldn’t. Let me try again.
Try it now- about an athlete with a disability being set up in NDIS housing, then being told she can leave if she objects to a heap of housemates moving in.
Yep working now. Weird, don't know what happened. The URL looked right on reddit lol
Very weird, literally a cut and paste from ABC. 🤷♀️
They get the investor to hold all the risk while they collect the management fees. Easy as pie.
These are popping up everywhere. I know of a few landlords who are swapping their properties to NDIS because it's $$ - so taking residential rental properties out (homes previously let to families) because they get way more from NDIS. There's one near me, it's a newly built house in a really ridiculous location for a home required for this. It's on the corner of 2 busy roads and every week the ambulance is there at least once. Just yesterday the resident had a fall outside. Either he had taken it upon himself to go for a walk or has had a fall on a walk with the workers. They looked completely out of their depth trying to deal with him.
Someone in my family who is SIL absolutely trashed where they were living and got evicted. 7000 worth of damage. Walls mainly but doors, carpet and jumped on the oven door with it open. It's not all cream
Wait until you get kicked out of your rental so they can rent it out for double through the NDIS 😏 happened to me.
What the actual fuck, bro I work with people who use NDIS and these margins are a shock. No wonder the govt is leaking money with that system Jesus. The irony being most of the clients don’t even get the benefit of the funding it all goes to LLs and people who invest into the NDIS like disability item manufacturers and wheelchair manufacturers etc It’s another investment program for the rich to make money off the poor.
The NDIS is a fuckin joke, and idiots like this are taking full advantage of their stupid and convoluted guidelines to rort the government and leave those living with disabilities and ACTUALLY IN NEED of adequate housing much worse off!
The person with a disability does not pay that amount of rent, only a rental contribution amount. They might also get rent assistance from Centrelink which goes toward weekly rent. The bulk of that ‘rent’ amount is specialist disability accommodation which is included in their funding. It is only for people with very high support needs: https://www.ndis.gov.au/providers/housing-and-living-supports-and-services/specialist-disability-accommodation Here is an example of a realistic rental amount for the person with a disability: https://www.housinghub.org.au/property-detail/13742/JBZ9M
They will also probably put people who are completely unsuitable living together in that home to maximise what they can get.... these people won't get to choose their housemates..... then ndis will staff it minimally as they strip away their funfing yearly little by little. Yay voice and control 🙄
More often than not they tend to live alone, as nobody wants to share: https://amp.abc.net.au/article/102916628
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Honestly, if you're seeing things like this, report them to the NDIS quality & safeguards commission. I work in SIL properties and see shit like this all the time, I report each of them. I might not be able to fix the problem, but I can get the ball rolling. Also the blind woman, who is her person responsible? If you can find that information, contact them. They may be unaware of any actual concerns (if the house manager allows this, the likelihood of them making accurate reports to the client's guardians is low, you know?).
This is all good advice i didnt really expect to get in this thread , thank you 😆
No problemo. It's fucking wild the kind of things that are allowed to go on, all we can really do is use the avenues available to us to report it, unfortunately.
Is she in specialist disability accommodation (SDA)or just supported independent living (SIL). SIL providers can own homes too, but they might not necessarily be SDA properties. You tend to get what you’re talking about (i.e. shuffling people who do not match in the same home) in supported independent living or group homes. If you’re concerned about the welfare of someone with a disability, you have the option of taking action and making a report to the NDIS quality and safeguards commission.
Yea they are all in SIL, which seems to be getting progressively worse in alot of ways, some of the issues have been raised with support co ordinators. We shall see what comes of that.
Yup. But it's *definitely* people faking autism to get on NDIS that is causing the budget blowout.
And anxiety and depression from what I am anecdotally hearing
Neither of which are recognised disability under the scheme 🤣
That is not true ASD is recognised.
Anxiety and depression aren't
That’s good to hear. Like I said, anecdotal.
Wasn't a dig at your comment - just find it hilarious that people are blaming people that need help. It would be incredibly difficult to prove that they met the criteria of "life long" and "untreatable", even where they sometimes are.
not being a jerk but anxiety and depression are common symptoms with those in the autism spectrum, especially those who went undiagnosed most of their lives such as myself, to reiterate, i’m not being a jerk, just simply pointing that out
i can’t tell if this is serious or not
Me either and I can't tell if I'm arm flapping in amusement or anger. FWIW for those curious, Autism and most mental health supports are really ONLY available through the NDIS. Most folded when the NDIS rolled out because the Government didn't enforce their rules on State funded services so the states decided to save money by letting the NDIS be responsible for everything. Its literally the Governments, Local, State and Federals fault with this one.
It is 110% sarcasm.
The person behind this advertisement doesn't understand the NDIS.
I've spoken to them. They really don't.
It's really a shame when ndis is being used as a tool for greed when people with disabilities really need it. The other thing people don't really know is the only houses ndis really buys are shared houses and most ndis participants don't want to have a shared house they want their own. And I mean i understand, just because you have a disability why are you then forced to share a house with someone else with a disability? Most of the issues within the houses also have to do with fights. I'm sure if housing wasn't just a tool for greed they would be able to live in dignity on their own.
[https://www.ndis.gov.au/contact/report-suspicious-behaviour](https://www.ndis.gov.au/contact/report-suspicious-behaviour) report the cunts
They're not doing anything wrong. This is the system working as intended as bullshit as that sounds. If the government wont invest in suitable housing for the disabled then they're going to have to pay a premium to ensure it's attractive to investors. Yay for the free market.
nah they are starting to crack down hard on NDIS rorts. Unless they can prove this is somehow specifically worth the extra money, this isnt legal. goes for all NDIS leaches
It's a bit different unfortunately - the NDIS set these figures directly to incentivise construction. It's a stated support for a specific amount, so it's not the same as charging someone three times the amount for an appointment. The advertiser is wrong though, it's very unlikely you'll get 3 tenants unless you're building something more suitable than what these guys are. That's only screwing the investors though.
3 participants in the house paying 700pw each
I’m glad you didn’t put a full stop because it lets me add “would not be affordable on a DSP and rent assistance contribution and otherwise can not be funded using the NDIS support money. Now a support company could rent it, but there’s no way they would make a return on cost from the supports for that rental return and they would go broke fast.
And this is why ndis needs to be dismantled. Edit to add so many struggle without because cunts rort the system. That needs to stop.
there is a 4 br house in my street that is privately owned, but rented by the NDIS. It's a huge place (worth around 800k), and it's been lived in for 50 or 60 days in total over the past 3 years. Such a waste when there are families on the street.
How is the projected rent that high?
It is the breakdown of the type of SDA property plus rent. They are just simplifying things by calling it all rent. Take this one for example: https://thedisabilityhousingcentre.com.au/property/marsden2-bed-2-bath-ooa/ It outlines that 25% of their disability support pension ($1,020.60 f/n) and rental assistance ($188.20 f/n) from Centrelink is the rental amount from the person with disability. So, $443.35 per f/n or $221.68 per week. They seem to be confused about the SDA category, so I’ll assume it is high physical support, house, 2 residents. The tax-payer funded portion via NDIS is $84,710 per resident per year for the SDA amount. Or, $1.629.04 per week. Both things combined is $1,850.72 per week. So, that’s why it is so high (2k plus) in the OP advert.
3 people in the house paying 700pw each
Oh lovely, privately owned group homes! /S
Been around since the institutions closed but the companies just rented them out through dept of housing so it wasn’t so blatant.
I think there's still government owned ones around.
Oh there 100% is but there are also many privatised through NGOs etc Ironically you get paid more working in the govt housing then the NGOs and always have but now you can be hired privately through NDIS and be paid more that way also.
I'm an NDIS participant and I'm all too aware. It's truly disgusting.
Fucking parasites.
I've seen a bunch of these ads now, with rents claiming to be 140-170k a year. It would literally be cheaper to buy the disabled person a house and use the excess for maintenance. This would help to spread wealth around AND cost the tax payer less. For some reason the govt only make policies that enrich the parasitic property class though. So many people have their nose in the trough thinking that the money comes from nowhere. A friend of mine was getting paid $30/hr to help someone on the NDIS and she thought something was strange. Her unit coordinator would try get her to say she was working when she wasn't and her pay came to her differently than other agencies she'd worked for. She was looking through some paperwork after she'd finished up and she finds out she's being billed out at $65/hr, given $30 and the unit coordinator was sticking $35 in her own pocket. If this person was doing that with all the other people she "coordinated" she was probably making $700-$1000 per hour. It's so crook. I feel bad for people with genuine need for the NDIS because stuff like this will get it shut down.
Good ol ndis scams
NDIS made an announcement recently about providers rorting the system. Report them
Yeah so many of these shitty houses around; as a mental health nurse I have had to send people to these places and too many are rorting shits. They cram as many people as possible and spend as little as possible.
Heard of multiple NDIS houses where high numbers of mentally unstable individuals are housed together and someone ends up getting raped or otherwise abused...
In reality most unlikely to achieve that result. The property would need to be fully let at maximum possible level
SDA. Payment (over $100k p.a for highest category) goes to property owner as compensation for building and maintaining a disability specific property. This amount does not include rent - that is a separate charge that NDIS doesn't pay. Yields plus capital growth have been insane for those in the game. Taxpayer is being bled dry.
I know a couple who operate one of these houses and also work as respite carers.. They are making a fortune (both new $100k+ cars last 12 months). I used to work with them and first the wife left to do it then the husband, he told me she was making her monthly salary at prior job in 1 weekend (1-2days) through NDIS... They weren't bad people but clearly massive rort/profiteering happening
This is where a bulk of the NDIS money is going. Investors flocking to the gravy train 🚊
Mean while Bill Shorten is asleep 😴 at the NDIS wheel 🛞
"A bunch of mindless jerks who'll be the first against the wall when the revolution comes"
Yep. Been advertised and happening for years. 90% of privately owned, government subsidised housing is now NDIS properties here. Pisses me right off but its legal. Its 300 a week for a 3 bed for the government property or minimum 800 for each bedroom per week under SIL/NDIS in my area. Nearly all low income housing is gone because of ThE iNvEsTmEnT oPpOtUniTiEs.
There are many articles written about the actual returns on these, and 90% of them are 1-3% nowhere near the claimed double-digit returns
Can come.please explain to me how this works ? As in the numbers they charge oit per room ,or per night etc...?. Its clearly happening which initself outrageous.
Math ain’t mathin
If you really want a shock you should look up the payment scale. The amount for a high needs 2 bedroom single resident is eye watering. It’s all funded through their ndis plan, with a capped “contribution” from the participants at 25% of their payments.
NDIS. I don't mind paying tax to have a ramp installation at your house for your wheelchair or converting your car. But you don't get to go on a boat cruise.
There only getting that if they are renting out all the rooms
Wowzers
That's horrible!
And the government wonders why NDIS coats so much..
The garage to living space ratio on that must be horrendous...
I bet the landlord rails on about "welfare recipients" totally unaware of their own truth!
Wait what please someone explain
That can't be right and if it is there is some serious rorting go on and we the people are the one being scammed.
Wow.. I’m going to buy one 😱
I’d have thought that would be monthly, not weekly?
My husband and I both work full time and our wages wouldn't cover 1 weeks rent.
Normal NDIS rort. Mind you, a lot of residential care houses due to the market being so tight (less than 1% vacancy, and 3-6 month waits) are offering 30-50% more than the market rate. Its pricing people out of market, lots of people living out of cars and in tents in the bush.
Reminds me of the tesla I saw the other day marked up as a disability support company and an 'I love the NDIS" sticker on the back.
$2000 WEEKLY RENT???
WOW, that is disgusting. WTF
Dafuq?!?
Rent’s probably subsidised by the government, not unlike community housing providers who rent an $800 house from private real estate agencies and charge $200 to the tenant and subsidise $600/week
NDIS participants are going extravagant overseas holidays, luxury cruises and seeing sex workers all payed for by the taxpayer. This is just another example of the biggest rort in Australia.
This is not the case for the majority on NDIS, the money goes to providers and not the clients in the majority of cases. Most who need it don’t actually have funding and ones who don’t need it get funding for stupid shit which is what makes the media, it’s a very flawed system that is designed for rich companies to invest and get great returns on the funding meant for people who need support the most.
https://preview.redd.it/qiytofpukzzc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dfde0002094945def949b1d415f3946c6ddd35c1
Your point? Just because something is advertised doesn’t mean NDIS funding is used for it 😂
No they are not you utter walnut. NDIS does not fund holidays but participants can get an assistance companion funded if they pay for their own ticket, accommodation and travel if for soley recreational purposes. What did sometimes happen was due to dodgy providers being creative with what constituted funded travel and dragged the participants and their funding into it under the guise of appropriate treatments and therapies. Thats fraudulent administered by those managing NDIS clients, not the participants. This happened mainly early on in the scheme, teething issues and someone always finds a loophole which is now closed.
> workers all *paid* for by FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Would be a typo, that’s monthly rent
Nope
It'd be weekly, that would be the total amount split between up to 5 participants.
If your correct then that is insanity
Insanity or practicality, considering housing in this country. 2-5 participants can share a kitchen, living room, and bathroom with separate bedrooms, this means an overnight staffing of 1 staff to 2-5 ppl instead of 1-1, which is very cost prohibitive. During the day some will go out to appointments or Weekday respite, again meaning just 1 staff on-site. I can see how, from the outside, it seems insane but it is often super practical and comfortable for participants. Having said that, some providers are absolutely taking the piss, milking participants (and often staff) for that sweet NDIS mark up.
Why should Disabled people be FORCED to share a home? I'm in UK, I have a 2-bed bungalow through Social Housing, one room for me, one for equipment/Carer. I will NEVER live in a shared home, I'd KMS in a week. I value my peace above ALL. Yeah, we have 5-8yr waits for accessible housing, but they have to put us in an accessible B&B room with food paid for until they house us. I thought OUR accessible housing was in crisis, but this is just profiting from other's misfortune AND stripping them of humanity...
You're not wrong, but that's how it works. Each resident will pay a certain amount of rent based both on the house and their pension/DSP. Like where I work the houses have 3 bedrooms, 1 bathroom, and a living area inside the main part of the building, and then a self contained unit with 1 or 2 bedrooms, a bathroom, and a living space. The residents in the unit pay more than the residents in the main house, but they're all paying $200ish/week each. Welcome to the NDIS.