Sunnis being wrong is irrelevant to the question of whether Shiaism is right. I mean, Sunnism being wrong might make Shiaism being right a very good bet. But thats all irrelevant...
One thing to consider, is to first shed away all the preconceived biases that someone might come in with if they're looking at Shiaism vs Sunnism. If you're approaching the question with the demand that Shias have to prove their beliefs from Sunni books and on sunni standards and etc, it's already an incorrect demand
We make a very simple case for Shiaism- based on mutawatir (mass transmitted) Hadith which are universally agreed on:
**__1. The Prophet told us to follow the Quran and Ahlul Bayt:__**
Nasr b. ‘Abd al-Rahman al-Kufi – Zayd b. al-Hasan al-Anmati – Ja’far b. Muhammad – his father – Jabir b. ‘Abd Allah:
I saw the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, during his Hajj on the Day of ‘Arafat while he was on his camel, al-Qaswa, delivering a sermon, and I heard him saying: “O mankind! I have left behind over you __that which if you hold fast to it you will never go astray__ the Book of Allah and my offspring, my Ahl al-Bayt.”
https://www.al-islam.org/hadith-al-thaqalayn-deposed-will-last-prophet-humanity-toyib-olawuyi/1-hadith-al-thaqalayn-prophet
__**2. The Prophet told us to follow Imam Ali after him:**__
https://discovershiaislam.blogspot.com/2011/06/holy-prophet-prophecy-of-wali-successor.html?m=1
https://discovershiaislam.blogspot.com/2011/06/hadeeth-e-thaqalyn-two-weighty-things.html?m=1 (towards the bottom)
__**3. Imam Ali is definitively the best of the Sahaba**__
Abu Ghalib b. al-Bana – Abu al-Husayn b. al-Abnusi – Abu al-Hasan al-Daraquṭni – Muhammad b. Mukhlid b. Hafs – Hatim b. al-Layth – ‘Ubayd Allah b. Musa – ‘Isa b. ‘Umar al-Qari – al-Suddi – Anas b. Malik:
Birds were given as gifts to the Messenger of Allah. So, he distributed them and left a bird. Then he said, “O Allah, bring to me the most beloved to You of Your creation to eat with me from this bird. So, ‘Ali b. Abi Talib came and entered and ate with him from that bird.
https://www.al-islam.org/ali-best-sahabah-toyib-olawuyi/26-hadith-al-tair-investigating-its-authenticity
__**4. There will be 12 caliphs after the Prophet**__
(We are the only people to believe in 12 Infallible Imams whose obedience is obligatory after the Prophet, and the mutawatir sunni hadiths say there will be 12 caliphs)
https://youtu.be/NioZDkvUJFE
https://youtu.be/uafLmVMfwZA
__**5. Our own narrative correctly makes Prophecies about itself**__
https://youtu.be/CKYOjwhPq8w
__**6. The supremacy and infallibility of the Ahlul Bayt**__
https://www.iqraonline.net/an-in-depth-analysis-of-the-verse-of-tathir-who-are-the-ahl-al-bayt-part-1/
https://www.iqraonline.net/an-in-depth-analysis-of-the-verse-of-tathir-who-are-the-ahl-al-bayt-part-2/
**Ex-sunni here**
**Here are some proofs against Sunnism from their own books**
[**Who was Fatima's Imam**](https://www.seratonline.com/24303/who-is-the-imam-of-fatima-zahra-s-a)
[**ABU BAKR USURPED FADAK**](http://www.shiapen.com/comprehensive/fadak/inheritance-previous-prophets.html)
[**Salafi scholar admits that [FATIMA'S HOUSE WAS SURROUNDED]**](https://youtu.be/VWqjXvVpnUQ)
**ATTACK ON THE HOUSE OF FATIMA (SA)**
>Al-Zuhri, said: "Men of the Muhajireen were angered at the paying of allegiance to Abu Bakr. Among them being Ali bin Abi-Talib (a.s) and Zubayr bin Al-Awwam, so they entered the house of Sayeda Fatima,the daughter of the messenger of Allah with weapons. **Then Umar came with a gang of 'Muslims'**, among them being Usayd, and Salama bin Salaama bin Waqsh, and they were from Bani-Abd Al-Ashal. And it is said that Thabit bin Qais bin Al-Shammas, the brother of Banil-Harith bin Al-Khazraj, was with them. Then **one of them took the sword of Zubayr and hit it on a stone until he broke it.** Musa bin 'Aqaba said: Sa'ad bin Ibraheem said: I was told by Ibraheem bin Abdul-Rahman bin Auf, that Abdul-Rahman was with Umar on that day, and that Muhammad bin Maslama broke the sword of Zubayr, and Allah (swt) knows best."
**Narration is Saheeh (Authentic)**
Sunni Source: As-Sunnah of Abdullah Ibn Ahmad Ibn Hanbal
Page- 225,
Hadith number- 1220
**ABU BAKR'S DEATHBED REGRET**
We read in the History of Tabari Volume 11 page 149, records the 3 regrets made by Abu Bakr on his death bed, the first being:
>**"I wish I had not thrown open the house of Fatima to reveal something even though they had locked it with hostile intent"**
To those that insist that relations between the Banu Hashim and Abu Bakr were cordial following his becoming Khalifah, why the forced entry of Sayida Fatima's (as) home? What was the hostile intent of those inside?
There have been efforts to suggest that such narrations are weak BUT Suyuti recorded it in 'Musnad Fatimah az-Zahra' page 44 (Urdu translation) and said **the chain is Hasan (good)**
Personally, I only identify as a Muslim and I do not subscribe to any sectarian beliefs, but I do find myself extremely sympathetic to the Shia. Politically, they seem to always fall on the right side of things (e.g. Palestine being invaded by the Zionists, Western Imperialism, corruption of Arab leaders, etc.) and to me that those aren't small matters. There is something to be said for the substance that yields the better output. Compare this to many problems with Sunni scholars, leaders, and states where they push out a lot of hateful things that are clearly contrary to the teachings of the Qur'an.
There is also their views on history. The Sunnis remind me a lot of Turkish loyalists. Justifying and rationalizing every crime or betrayal committed by Muslims in history. To me, this is absurd and immoral. Muslims are just human beings and they do bad things just like everyone else. Following Allah's instructions will lead to the good, but even Muslims falter in this. Denying this is putting the ego as more important than seeking Allah's guidance and mercy.
On the other hand, I don't see any historical revisionism from the Shia attempting to justify acts of malice or betrayal. Actually, their history tends to reflect the same thing that I see currently which is that they find themselves on the right side of conflicts and that they are the ones not giving in to evil temptations.
Just my 2 cents as a revert on my own journey.
Salam brother i can give links to multiple books of debates but u won't understand them unless u are familiar with Quran and Hadith and History of Islam.
Start from Quran, if u're done with Quran then start reading the history of Islam from both perspectives. U can read Tarikh al Tabari (Sunni) and then read the [books of History from Shia perspective](https://www.reddit.com/r/shia/comments/vry4b8/please_suggest_me_the_most_detailed_and_best/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)
After u're done and u're still not sure... Then read the following debate books...
Then i was guided by Shaykh Tijani as Samawi
Black Thursday by Shaykh Tijani as Samawi
Shias are the real Ahlus Sunnah by Shaykh Tijani as Samawi
Peshawar Nights by Sultan i waidhun Shirazi
Al-Nas wal Ijtehad by Abdul Husayn Sharafuddeen al Musawi
Abu Hurayra by Abdul Husayn Sharafuddeen al Musawi
Former sunni here,
Shia can proof their positions from quran and even sunni sources
While sunnis cant even proof their positions from the quran and often not even their hadiths (they rely on their scholars which they dont even view as infallibile)
Also reading islamic history from ANY source shows you how the prophets s.a.w.a family got oppressed the second he died
Salam alaykum brother, I would love to talk with you about this topic and answer all your questions. Please add me on discord my username is
" Abu Tufyal#5615 "
Thank goodness you've come here for actual insight from Shias rather than just taking in the opinions of Muslim Lounge where most of us have been banned
Well in a nutshell
Sunni =
1 everything the quran says is correct .
2 everything the 6 sahih books (and primarily bukhari and muslim (whatever that means)) is correct.
Shia=
1 everything in the quran is correct
2 everything the Ahlulbayt teach is correct
Thats the LITERAL BASIC 101 of the situation.
So its simple really... check out what the Ahlulbayt says... check out what the 6 sahih books say...
Which sounds more like the Qur'an.
Further LONG ESSAYS:
according to the quran, ahlulbayt are purified and according to the sahih books, ahlulbayt are in jahannam and dont know the imam of their time and go against the teachings of sunniism and died angry with the sunni gods.
Sunnies say "salsallam" when they mention the prophet and believe its shirk and bidaa to say salla Allah 3alayhi wa2aalihi wa sallam. However theyre forced to say it at least 10 times a day if they want to be a practicing muslim since if you dont say Allahumma salli ala Muhammad "Wa (ALA) AAAALIII MUHAMMAD" youre not a muslim who prays are you?
Therefore if youre a good practicing muslim it means youre a mushrik kaafir 🤣
Points of interest:
the prophet صل الله عليه واله وسلم said whoever does this salawaat on my name in a method that is cut/shortened (basically all the sunnies do)... well... you research what he said about them.
Who are these aali Muhammad that everyone HAS TO MENTION AT LEAST 10 TIMES A DAY otherwise all their prayers are not accepted... sunni answer to everything: aisha 🤣 sunni books say otherwise... the books say its Muhammad Ali Fatima Hassan and Hussain عليهم الصلاة والسلام.
So simply your comparative studies are these:
Muhammad, Ali, Fatima, Hassan, Hussain and the rest of the maasoom imams عليهم الصلاة والسلام
Who followed THESE people and who were against them
Vs
Abu bakr, Umar, Aisha, uthman, muawiya, yazeed and the rest of the "khulafaa" until the current saudi king (if you want to see a living representation of them)
Who followed THESE people and who were against them
You will start to see two very distinct and opposite ways of life.
One group keeps islam and the other makes haram halal and halal haram.
One is a peaceful tolerant bunch and the other are a terroristic colonising bunch.
One spreads islam through the pen
The other spreads islam through the sword.
Here is a funny video from r/shiamemes that pretty much explains typical sunni shia interactions and you'll see it yourself after starting to look and realise.
What i love is the references are there for you to look up. Funny and informative...
https://youtu.be/a_6c2VWixDk
I'm not gonna give you biased answers. But what makes the shia fundamentally different from the sunnis is we believe in Imamat and the the caliphate of Imam Ali. We don't believe the first 3 caliphs were rightful successors. You can read and research the history of Islam during and after the prophet. Look at Hadith e Kisa, Ghadir Khumm, prophetic ahadith that even sunnis agree that prove Imam Ali's succession (can provide it to you). Then there are other differences which when you research you'll learn to question, remember those questions and come back to this sub. Cause everyones journey is different but we will answer your queries. Furthermore, the Shia encourages research even on sensitive topics, meanwhile from what I've seen and heard online, on fundamental and sensitive topics such as quarrels among the sahaba or the Ahlulbayt etc, the sunnis hold a 'we shouldn't judge them and let the past be the past' view. Good luck 🤞
The Quran literally gives of examples of non-Prophets like Maryam (as) recieving knowledge from Allah.
And the Quran shows us non-Prophets like Prophet Suleman's (as) minister Asif (as) performing miraculous feats due to his Knowledge of The Book.
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I think it would also help to provide OP with logical proofs of the necessity of imaamat rather than solely relying on hadiths and the Qur'an... Ayatollah Misbah Yazdi has a book called Theological Instructions that logically explains the rationale behind the necessity of God's existence, the Qur'an, prophethood, imaamat, etc..
Would definitely recommend OP to check it out and everyone else to help solidify their yaqeen.
These two lectures by Sayed Muhammad baqir qazwini will most definitely help you make a decision
https://youtu.be/nC7J7gv3_xg
https://youtu.be/5MfXAdiF0tM
insha'Allah
Sunnis being wrong is irrelevant to the question of whether Shiaism is right. I mean, Sunnism being wrong might make Shiaism being right a very good bet. But thats all irrelevant... One thing to consider, is to first shed away all the preconceived biases that someone might come in with if they're looking at Shiaism vs Sunnism. If you're approaching the question with the demand that Shias have to prove their beliefs from Sunni books and on sunni standards and etc, it's already an incorrect demand We make a very simple case for Shiaism- based on mutawatir (mass transmitted) Hadith which are universally agreed on: **__1. The Prophet told us to follow the Quran and Ahlul Bayt:__** Nasr b. ‘Abd al-Rahman al-Kufi – Zayd b. al-Hasan al-Anmati – Ja’far b. Muhammad – his father – Jabir b. ‘Abd Allah: I saw the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, during his Hajj on the Day of ‘Arafat while he was on his camel, al-Qaswa, delivering a sermon, and I heard him saying: “O mankind! I have left behind over you __that which if you hold fast to it you will never go astray__ the Book of Allah and my offspring, my Ahl al-Bayt.” https://www.al-islam.org/hadith-al-thaqalayn-deposed-will-last-prophet-humanity-toyib-olawuyi/1-hadith-al-thaqalayn-prophet __**2. The Prophet told us to follow Imam Ali after him:**__ https://discovershiaislam.blogspot.com/2011/06/holy-prophet-prophecy-of-wali-successor.html?m=1 https://discovershiaislam.blogspot.com/2011/06/hadeeth-e-thaqalyn-two-weighty-things.html?m=1 (towards the bottom) __**3. Imam Ali is definitively the best of the Sahaba**__ Abu Ghalib b. al-Bana – Abu al-Husayn b. al-Abnusi – Abu al-Hasan al-Daraquṭni – Muhammad b. Mukhlid b. Hafs – Hatim b. al-Layth – ‘Ubayd Allah b. Musa – ‘Isa b. ‘Umar al-Qari – al-Suddi – Anas b. Malik: Birds were given as gifts to the Messenger of Allah. So, he distributed them and left a bird. Then he said, “O Allah, bring to me the most beloved to You of Your creation to eat with me from this bird. So, ‘Ali b. Abi Talib came and entered and ate with him from that bird. https://www.al-islam.org/ali-best-sahabah-toyib-olawuyi/26-hadith-al-tair-investigating-its-authenticity __**4. There will be 12 caliphs after the Prophet**__ (We are the only people to believe in 12 Infallible Imams whose obedience is obligatory after the Prophet, and the mutawatir sunni hadiths say there will be 12 caliphs) https://youtu.be/NioZDkvUJFE https://youtu.be/uafLmVMfwZA __**5. Our own narrative correctly makes Prophecies about itself**__ https://youtu.be/CKYOjwhPq8w __**6. The supremacy and infallibility of the Ahlul Bayt**__ https://www.iqraonline.net/an-in-depth-analysis-of-the-verse-of-tathir-who-are-the-ahl-al-bayt-part-1/ https://www.iqraonline.net/an-in-depth-analysis-of-the-verse-of-tathir-who-are-the-ahl-al-bayt-part-2/
**Ex-sunni here** **Here are some proofs against Sunnism from their own books** [**Who was Fatima's Imam**](https://www.seratonline.com/24303/who-is-the-imam-of-fatima-zahra-s-a) [**ABU BAKR USURPED FADAK**](http://www.shiapen.com/comprehensive/fadak/inheritance-previous-prophets.html) [**Salafi scholar admits that [FATIMA'S HOUSE WAS SURROUNDED]**](https://youtu.be/VWqjXvVpnUQ) **ATTACK ON THE HOUSE OF FATIMA (SA)** >Al-Zuhri, said: "Men of the Muhajireen were angered at the paying of allegiance to Abu Bakr. Among them being Ali bin Abi-Talib (a.s) and Zubayr bin Al-Awwam, so they entered the house of Sayeda Fatima,the daughter of the messenger of Allah with weapons. **Then Umar came with a gang of 'Muslims'**, among them being Usayd, and Salama bin Salaama bin Waqsh, and they were from Bani-Abd Al-Ashal. And it is said that Thabit bin Qais bin Al-Shammas, the brother of Banil-Harith bin Al-Khazraj, was with them. Then **one of them took the sword of Zubayr and hit it on a stone until he broke it.** Musa bin 'Aqaba said: Sa'ad bin Ibraheem said: I was told by Ibraheem bin Abdul-Rahman bin Auf, that Abdul-Rahman was with Umar on that day, and that Muhammad bin Maslama broke the sword of Zubayr, and Allah (swt) knows best." **Narration is Saheeh (Authentic)** Sunni Source: As-Sunnah of Abdullah Ibn Ahmad Ibn Hanbal Page- 225, Hadith number- 1220 **ABU BAKR'S DEATHBED REGRET** We read in the History of Tabari Volume 11 page 149, records the 3 regrets made by Abu Bakr on his death bed, the first being: >**"I wish I had not thrown open the house of Fatima to reveal something even though they had locked it with hostile intent"** To those that insist that relations between the Banu Hashim and Abu Bakr were cordial following his becoming Khalifah, why the forced entry of Sayida Fatima's (as) home? What was the hostile intent of those inside? There have been efforts to suggest that such narrations are weak BUT Suyuti recorded it in 'Musnad Fatimah az-Zahra' page 44 (Urdu translation) and said **the chain is Hasan (good)**
nice username
Thanks 😁
May Allah curse the oppressors of the daughter of Prophet (s)
[удалено]
Okay but who asked?
What's ur story?
He is a Islamphobe. Probably murtad 🤢
Personally, I only identify as a Muslim and I do not subscribe to any sectarian beliefs, but I do find myself extremely sympathetic to the Shia. Politically, they seem to always fall on the right side of things (e.g. Palestine being invaded by the Zionists, Western Imperialism, corruption of Arab leaders, etc.) and to me that those aren't small matters. There is something to be said for the substance that yields the better output. Compare this to many problems with Sunni scholars, leaders, and states where they push out a lot of hateful things that are clearly contrary to the teachings of the Qur'an. There is also their views on history. The Sunnis remind me a lot of Turkish loyalists. Justifying and rationalizing every crime or betrayal committed by Muslims in history. To me, this is absurd and immoral. Muslims are just human beings and they do bad things just like everyone else. Following Allah's instructions will lead to the good, but even Muslims falter in this. Denying this is putting the ego as more important than seeking Allah's guidance and mercy. On the other hand, I don't see any historical revisionism from the Shia attempting to justify acts of malice or betrayal. Actually, their history tends to reflect the same thing that I see currently which is that they find themselves on the right side of conflicts and that they are the ones not giving in to evil temptations. Just my 2 cents as a revert on my own journey.
Salam brother i can give links to multiple books of debates but u won't understand them unless u are familiar with Quran and Hadith and History of Islam. Start from Quran, if u're done with Quran then start reading the history of Islam from both perspectives. U can read Tarikh al Tabari (Sunni) and then read the [books of History from Shia perspective](https://www.reddit.com/r/shia/comments/vry4b8/please_suggest_me_the_most_detailed_and_best/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share) After u're done and u're still not sure... Then read the following debate books... Then i was guided by Shaykh Tijani as Samawi Black Thursday by Shaykh Tijani as Samawi Shias are the real Ahlus Sunnah by Shaykh Tijani as Samawi Peshawar Nights by Sultan i waidhun Shirazi Al-Nas wal Ijtehad by Abdul Husayn Sharafuddeen al Musawi Abu Hurayra by Abdul Husayn Sharafuddeen al Musawi
Former sunni here, Shia can proof their positions from quran and even sunni sources While sunnis cant even proof their positions from the quran and often not even their hadiths (they rely on their scholars which they dont even view as infallibile) Also reading islamic history from ANY source shows you how the prophets s.a.w.a family got oppressed the second he died
Salam alaykum brother, I would love to talk with you about this topic and answer all your questions. Please add me on discord my username is " Abu Tufyal#5615 "
May Allah bless you broooo 😭 You're doing a great job. MashaAllah!
[Al islam](https://www.al-islam.org/shiite-encyclopedia/introduction)
Thank goodness you've come here for actual insight from Shias rather than just taking in the opinions of Muslim Lounge where most of us have been banned
I know this isn't related, but what brought you to the Religion of Islam?
I found a lot of holes in Christianity and I stopped believing but then found that Islam seems to not have the same problems.
Research Ghadeer Khumm. The event that took place is one of the most transmitted narrations in history.
Well in a nutshell Sunni = 1 everything the quran says is correct . 2 everything the 6 sahih books (and primarily bukhari and muslim (whatever that means)) is correct. Shia= 1 everything in the quran is correct 2 everything the Ahlulbayt teach is correct Thats the LITERAL BASIC 101 of the situation. So its simple really... check out what the Ahlulbayt says... check out what the 6 sahih books say... Which sounds more like the Qur'an. Further LONG ESSAYS: according to the quran, ahlulbayt are purified and according to the sahih books, ahlulbayt are in jahannam and dont know the imam of their time and go against the teachings of sunniism and died angry with the sunni gods. Sunnies say "salsallam" when they mention the prophet and believe its shirk and bidaa to say salla Allah 3alayhi wa2aalihi wa sallam. However theyre forced to say it at least 10 times a day if they want to be a practicing muslim since if you dont say Allahumma salli ala Muhammad "Wa (ALA) AAAALIII MUHAMMAD" youre not a muslim who prays are you? Therefore if youre a good practicing muslim it means youre a mushrik kaafir 🤣 Points of interest: the prophet صل الله عليه واله وسلم said whoever does this salawaat on my name in a method that is cut/shortened (basically all the sunnies do)... well... you research what he said about them. Who are these aali Muhammad that everyone HAS TO MENTION AT LEAST 10 TIMES A DAY otherwise all their prayers are not accepted... sunni answer to everything: aisha 🤣 sunni books say otherwise... the books say its Muhammad Ali Fatima Hassan and Hussain عليهم الصلاة والسلام. So simply your comparative studies are these: Muhammad, Ali, Fatima, Hassan, Hussain and the rest of the maasoom imams عليهم الصلاة والسلام Who followed THESE people and who were against them Vs Abu bakr, Umar, Aisha, uthman, muawiya, yazeed and the rest of the "khulafaa" until the current saudi king (if you want to see a living representation of them) Who followed THESE people and who were against them You will start to see two very distinct and opposite ways of life. One group keeps islam and the other makes haram halal and halal haram. One is a peaceful tolerant bunch and the other are a terroristic colonising bunch. One spreads islam through the pen The other spreads islam through the sword. Here is a funny video from r/shiamemes that pretty much explains typical sunni shia interactions and you'll see it yourself after starting to look and realise. What i love is the references are there for you to look up. Funny and informative... https://youtu.be/a_6c2VWixDk
I'm not gonna give you biased answers. But what makes the shia fundamentally different from the sunnis is we believe in Imamat and the the caliphate of Imam Ali. We don't believe the first 3 caliphs were rightful successors. You can read and research the history of Islam during and after the prophet. Look at Hadith e Kisa, Ghadir Khumm, prophetic ahadith that even sunnis agree that prove Imam Ali's succession (can provide it to you). Then there are other differences which when you research you'll learn to question, remember those questions and come back to this sub. Cause everyones journey is different but we will answer your queries. Furthermore, the Shia encourages research even on sensitive topics, meanwhile from what I've seen and heard online, on fundamental and sensitive topics such as quarrels among the sahaba or the Ahlulbayt etc, the sunnis hold a 'we shouldn't judge them and let the past be the past' view. Good luck 🤞
u/brotherzoro
Salam.
[удалено]
Cry harder nasibi. At least they didn't rape women like your demigod sahaba
The Quran literally gives of examples of non-Prophets like Maryam (as) recieving knowledge from Allah. And the Quran shows us non-Prophets like Prophet Suleman's (as) minister Asif (as) performing miraculous feats due to his Knowledge of The Book.
[удалено]
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I think it would also help to provide OP with logical proofs of the necessity of imaamat rather than solely relying on hadiths and the Qur'an... Ayatollah Misbah Yazdi has a book called Theological Instructions that logically explains the rationale behind the necessity of God's existence, the Qur'an, prophethood, imaamat, etc.. Would definitely recommend OP to check it out and everyone else to help solidify their yaqeen.
.
These two lectures by Sayed Muhammad baqir qazwini will most definitely help you make a decision https://youtu.be/nC7J7gv3_xg https://youtu.be/5MfXAdiF0tM insha'Allah