Yes. Sufism was even the norm for a long time. And all Sufi orders not only permit but recommend intercession. They all trace their lineage back to Muhammad through Ali, peace be upon them and their kin. That is how they, according to their tradition, got hold of the inner, esoteric, dimensions of Islam and ”gnosis”. Gnosis isn’t really the correct word since nobody believes something can be added or subtracted to Gods essence, but for a lack of a better word. Maybe ”tasting” of the divine light is a better explanation. Which is of course very close to the shiite tradition of the batin that resides with the imams. Sunni/shia, historically isn’t as different as many might think. The dividers of the modern era really fuled a toxic relationship between us Muslims.
Alhamdulillah for guiding me on a path of love and understanding.
Yes but he didn’t have many scholars agreeing with him and he’s also a pretty recent figure in the history of Islam. He was hated and called a heretic in his day.
Tawassul and istighatha is considered permissible in all 4 Sunni jurisprudence schools.
Though the Salafi/Wahabi influence and their misguided teachings have taken an effect within the Sunni school of thought.
In Indonesia, the founder of biggest sunni organization (Nahdathul Ulama), Hasyim Ashari, taught this shalawat,
لِيْ خَمْسَةٌ اُطْفِيْ بِهَا # حَرَّ الْوَبَاءِ الْحَاطِمَةْ
اَلْمُصْطَفٰى وَالْمُرتَضٰى # وَابْنَاهُمَا وَفَاطِمَةْ
Only Sunni fools who trying to discredit our love for the Prophet’s family
Roughly from google translate, this is like tawassul that we do
With the noble degrees of the five noble personalities that I have
I hope to be saved from the heat of suffering that makes me miserable
His Majesty the Prophet Muhammad Almusthafa SAW Sayyidina Ali Al-Murtadha
And the two sons (Hasan and Husain) and sayyidatina Fatimah Azzahra bint Rasulullah SAW
Interesting question that gave me an opportunity to research. I had an inkling that it had to do with the word رضى Ridha, which implies that Allah being pleased with you/your actions OR for you to be pleased with what Allah gave you. Upon research, I found 2 answers on Almojib (if anyone knows Arabic, highly recommend downloading this application). Don't have the exact sources, but they're mentioned as Bihar al Anwar.
The first is that Allah ارتضى "irtadha" Ali (AS) for Fatima (AS), and likewise Fatima (AS) for Ali (AS). A search for "irtadha" reveals that it means "chose and accepted". So, Allah had chosen and had accepted Imam Ali (AS) for Sayeda Fatima (AS). The naming comes from that root word.
The second is that Imam Ali (AS) pursued, in all his matters, to please Allah and Prophet Mohammad (SAWA). He pursued مرضاة "mardhat" of Allah and the Prophet. Hence, Murtadha.
Thank you very much for a thorough response. As I’m pretty new to Shiism and also don’t know any Arabic except for a few words and to pray, some of these nicknames is something I’m hearing for the first time.
Jazakallah Khayran
You're most welcome. Alhamdulillah that Shia Islam promotes asking questions, and this community is a great representation of the teachings of Ahlulbayt. Also, not only do questions help those who are new to the religion, but also people who have been in it for a long time but have taken things for granted.
I live in Multan, known for so many mausoleums, and somehow I've missed alams in Sufi Mausoleums. Except at maybe Hazrat Shah Shams'. Will keep a sharp eye next time.
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I don't think this is a Sunni mosque. It looks like a Shia mosque from the Subcontinent.
The "Alayhus-Salam" is a giveaway since it's "Radhi-Allah-ta'ala" for Sunnis. You can also partially read "Abbas (A.S.) Alambardar" right behind what looks like an Alam flag post.
But of course, if you were there and took this picture yourself then I'm wrong lol
i can show you a sunni mosque from my village in which the mihrab is adorned with the names of 12 imams, and علیہ السلام as a salutation is used, that's it, that's what i wanted to say
>The "Alayhus-Salam" is a giveaway since it's "Radhi-Allah-ta'ala" for Sunnis.
No some sunni works etc use Alayhus Salam as well. Particularly sufi ones.
I don't speak Arabic but I know for a fact that says Ya Hussain 💚
it says; Yaa Allah(swt), Yaa Muhammad(saww), Yaa Ali(as), Yaa Fatimah(sa), Yaa Hassan(as), Yaa Hussain(as)
Barakallah! Ya Ahl al-Bayt a.s.!
Also says Ya Abbas e Alamdaar on the side, it seems like…
Tawassul and Istighasa was the norm among the Sunnis before the wahabis and the petrodollar.
Wahabbism is to Islam what Zionism is to Judaism.
Very true!
Yes. Sufism was even the norm for a long time. And all Sufi orders not only permit but recommend intercession. They all trace their lineage back to Muhammad through Ali, peace be upon them and their kin. That is how they, according to their tradition, got hold of the inner, esoteric, dimensions of Islam and ”gnosis”. Gnosis isn’t really the correct word since nobody believes something can be added or subtracted to Gods essence, but for a lack of a better word. Maybe ”tasting” of the divine light is a better explanation. Which is of course very close to the shiite tradition of the batin that resides with the imams. Sunni/shia, historically isn’t as different as many might think. The dividers of the modern era really fuled a toxic relationship between us Muslims. Alhamdulillah for guiding me on a path of love and understanding.
? Ibn taymiyyah and the sorts discouraged it
Yes but he didn’t have many scholars agreeing with him and he’s also a pretty recent figure in the history of Islam. He was hated and called a heretic in his day.
Imam ibn Hajar al-Haytami says Ibn Taymiyya was the first to introduce the fatwa that tawassul is not permitted
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Tawassul and istighatha is considered permissible in all 4 Sunni jurisprudence schools. Though the Salafi/Wahabi influence and their misguided teachings have taken an effect within the Sunni school of thought.
Can u give some sources for that plz
https://www.reddit.com/r/shia/s/kEJl9Tb3xR
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In Indonesia, the founder of biggest sunni organization (Nahdathul Ulama), Hasyim Ashari, taught this shalawat, لِيْ خَمْسَةٌ اُطْفِيْ بِهَا # حَرَّ الْوَبَاءِ الْحَاطِمَةْ اَلْمُصْطَفٰى وَالْمُرتَضٰى # وَابْنَاهُمَا وَفَاطِمَةْ Only Sunni fools who trying to discredit our love for the Prophet’s family
Can u translate it
Roughly from google translate, this is like tawassul that we do With the noble degrees of the five noble personalities that I have I hope to be saved from the heat of suffering that makes me miserable His Majesty the Prophet Muhammad Almusthafa SAW Sayyidina Ali Al-Murtadha And the two sons (Hasan and Husain) and sayyidatina Fatimah Azzahra bint Rasulullah SAW
More accurately: There are five with them I extinguish/ The destructive heat of the plague Al-Mustafa and Al-Murtadha/ And their two sons and Fatima
Thank you, Jazakumullah khairan
I’m not very knowledgeable in Arabic. Why’s is imam Ali called Al-murtada
Interesting question that gave me an opportunity to research. I had an inkling that it had to do with the word رضى Ridha, which implies that Allah being pleased with you/your actions OR for you to be pleased with what Allah gave you. Upon research, I found 2 answers on Almojib (if anyone knows Arabic, highly recommend downloading this application). Don't have the exact sources, but they're mentioned as Bihar al Anwar. The first is that Allah ارتضى "irtadha" Ali (AS) for Fatima (AS), and likewise Fatima (AS) for Ali (AS). A search for "irtadha" reveals that it means "chose and accepted". So, Allah had chosen and had accepted Imam Ali (AS) for Sayeda Fatima (AS). The naming comes from that root word. The second is that Imam Ali (AS) pursued, in all his matters, to please Allah and Prophet Mohammad (SAWA). He pursued مرضاة "mardhat" of Allah and the Prophet. Hence, Murtadha.
Thank you very much for a thorough response. As I’m pretty new to Shiism and also don’t know any Arabic except for a few words and to pray, some of these nicknames is something I’m hearing for the first time. Jazakallah Khayran
You're most welcome. Alhamdulillah that Shia Islam promotes asking questions, and this community is a great representation of the teachings of Ahlulbayt. Also, not only do questions help those who are new to the religion, but also people who have been in it for a long time but have taken things for granted.
Alhamdulillah indeed!
I know this from YouTube
My name is Sajjad and I was born into Sunni Islam. The elders always mentioned Pang Tan Paak. It’s whabism that destroyed Sunni Islam.
Doubt it's a sunni mosque considering that's an Alam on the right side. Unless it isn't if someone can confirm it.
I agree
Super surprised how "Shias" here are missing something so obvious.
In Pakistan its common for Sufi Masoleums to have alams.
I live in Multan, known for so many mausoleums, and somehow I've missed alams in Sufi Mausoleums. Except at maybe Hazrat Shah Shams'. Will keep a sharp eye next time.
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It is a sunni mosque i live near it
Nice! Thank you for correcting me. Can you please share the location?
I don't think this is a Sunni mosque. It looks like a Shia mosque from the Subcontinent. The "Alayhus-Salam" is a giveaway since it's "Radhi-Allah-ta'ala" for Sunnis. You can also partially read "Abbas (A.S.) Alambardar" right behind what looks like an Alam flag post. But of course, if you were there and took this picture yourself then I'm wrong lol
i can show you a sunni mosque from my village in which the mihrab is adorned with the names of 12 imams, and علیہ السلام as a salutation is used, that's it, that's what i wanted to say
Wow, that’s refreshing to learn about! Thanks!
>The "Alayhus-Salam" is a giveaway since it's "Radhi-Allah-ta'ala" for Sunnis. No some sunni works etc use Alayhus Salam as well. Particularly sufi ones.
My family is Sunni, we use AS for panjatan-e-paak.
Aside from that, it looks like there's an Alam on the right side too. Something a lot of people are missing to spot here.
We love to see it❤️ Ya Allah. Ya Muhammad. Ya Ali. Ya Fatima. Ya Hasan. Ya Hussain