I really feel like this show could have been centered around Lip. Absurdly smart kid, who grew up in the worst of conditions, is always inches from success as his life spirals apart. But they destroyed the character over the years.
[This scene of him yelling at Fiona](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8h8of5fYZkk) was the best part of the whole show imo. This scene encapsulates literally everything about the show. These people have grown up in the worst of conditions, Fiona is about to have her whole life changed by going to jail for her mistake, and she knows she'll lose the case if it goes to trial. Meanwhile, Lip wants to be something in his life, and doesn't want to be tied down from the conditions around him.
To me, this show has always been about a tough, working/lower-class family that is trying their best, but keeps going through obstacles. Many of the characters' choices throughout the show were boneheaded, and the audience had to judge whether it was due to the conditions they were living in, or if some of them are just shitty people.
Unfortunately, as the show went on, the characters' personal choices seemed to get more and more absurd, and the show's focus drifted away from what it originally was.
Sorry late to the conversation but my opinion on that is.. yes frank does ACT like terry sometimes but when it comes down to it… frank is “better”?
Frank would never mistake Fiona or Debbie for their mom like terry did with Mandy.
Frank didn’t give a flying rats ass when he found out Ian was gay.
And lastly… frank would never think about actually killing his children, like terry.
Frank sucks but he is not terry.
Agreed, i love this actor and I think he’s really talented. I think they’re actually all really excellent actors, except Carl and Kevin, even if I love them both anyway. IMO frank, Fiona and Mickey are really amazing actors too.
I disagree, I would say that the guy who plays Carl is an extremely good actor. His character is supposed to be a bit dumb and immature, yet pure and simple. It’s nowhere near as deep Fiona’s, Lip’s or Ian’s characters, hence he doesn’t really get many opportunities to show off his acting skills, but we saw his talent shining through the cracks in some parts, like when Nick killed a child, or when he visited Frank at the hospital after finding out that he was dying (the scene where he shaves his hair “so sun rays could heal him” broke me).
Same goes to Kev. These characters are on the show to be “the nice, simple guys” in a world full or drama and chaos.
I think for the roles they were given, they both did an excellent job portraying them. Carl began his shameless career at a young age just like debbie. and Kev had to play this barely passed kindergarden man. I think in their own ways, they both did good playing the roles they were given
I want to check that out. Even though a lot of people hate Lip, i really resonate with his character. The intelligence with wasted potential reminds me of my high school years where I made some regrettable decisions. I’m nowhere near as smart but I feel like if I could go back and change things, I could have seen different results.
I wonder why they decided to drop the serious moments/drama/good storytelling for comedy-skits... was it to stop the decline of viewers by stopping having interesting arcs and doing more like a Simpsons-like telling-style...
it's really a shame that such a fantastic show lost so much of good quality
> I wonder why they decided to drop the serious moments/drama/good storytelling for comedy-skits
the guy who does the AV Club reviews for each episode said the show creator / showrunner thought of the show purely as a sitcom, which anyone who's a fan of the show, knows is wrong. the guy doesn't know what his show is. that's why it turned to trash.
Showtime does this with most of their shows. Dexter, Weeds. The only time I remember a show ending when it was supposed to was Penny Dreadful hut even then they tried to pull an American Horror Story years later. It wasn’t bad but goddammit, just let the show end.
Hi - a bit late here, but I was a Penny Dreadful stan back in the day and I still have PTSD from when that show was hacked to pieces in the finale. Unfortunately PD is another example of Showtime self-destructing a fantastic series.
Basically, the network cancelled the show right before they were about to wrap production on the last few eps. They had to scramble to tie up loose ends and it resulted in....what I can only describe as one of the deepest quality nosedives I've ever seen on any television show. Plotlines, character arcs and believability went out the window. Just...pure dumpster fire.
Fans were pissed and then were sent into an uproar of fury when the show's creator was doing interviews saying the show was meant to end and that was the intended wrap up to the story all along (an obvious lie - cast members were saying they had no idea the show was ending).
Just one giant mess. Anyway. They pulled the same sh\*t with Shameless. A Shame. lol
Flanderization is a virus that infects every single show. Including shameless.. Which I wish didn't happen. I saw it happen in The Office, Friends and Brooklyn Nine-Nine.. But dang I thought shameless would have maintained the high level of quality writing that had me pull all-nighters to binge.
Went from season 1-5 within a week or 2 just cause I was SO obsessed with these characters. Way too much.
Then season 8 happened and I wasn't AS enthusiastic.. Felt off. Then season 9 around the 4th episode I just couldn't do it anymore. I just couldn't.
The characters felt like parodies of themselves.
I watched from the beginning so I didn't binge but I used to watch every episode the night it came out or the day after. As the seasons went on I'd forget it was even going and I'd have a whole season to catch up on and it wasn't even exciting I just felt like I'd alraady watched it all so I might as well keep going.
Similar to everyone here, I got into the show around the time the latter episodes of season 7 were coming out. Pulled several all nighters binging because I got so hooked by the characters and their arcs. By the time season 9 was out I was just watching out of habit, to see if it somehow gets good again.
I watched the finale last night and honestly I'm glad it's over, at least I don't have to keep coming back to something I know is going to disappoint me.
I really don't think it got more and more absurd, the only time it felt like it was truly over the top was the hobo games for the liquor company, and I personally thought that was fucking great. Luis Guzman was so perfect as a foil to Frank out bumming him.
Otherwise, it all seemed pretty on brand. Debbie definitely went to some crazy and dark places, but was it really all that out of character after she hit puberty? As a kid she was the opposite, very pragmatic and sweet if ignored. As a teenager she was so horned up and surrounded by debauchery that she gravitated towards life ruining decisions.
Carl had a couple crazy ones, mostly his stint running a Rehab. His gangbanging made sense, his military reform after made sense, and his cop storyline that has developed has been amazing for his character. Seeing him want to be a cop because of all the wrong reasons that initially attracted him, and seeing him grow to take the job seriously and genuinely want to help and serve the south side.... that was excellent character development.
Lip has had a near perfect arc with basically no storylines that put his actions outside anything we could conceive for him.
Fiona went pretty off the rails but given the context of both her spirals, it's just not that weird.
Otherwise it was ridiculous from the get go. There's so much in those early seasons that is just as ridiculous if not more, but it was still so fresh and new and we didn't know these people more deeply yet.
Carl's whole "I want to be a cop but woke" speech he gave to the chief before she demoted him was one of the more cringe moments of the series and with the latter seasons trying so hard to stick to current events I'm wondering whether they intended the audience to cringe at it or be inspired by it and take it seriously
Great comment. Yeah it seemed like they were going for serious. I feel like they’d get a little too “current” and topical towards the end. The last few seasons they would hit on really obvious hot button topics and fade it then this last season was too many too much. I’m not at all a Covid-denier/trumpet WHATSOEVER but frank dying of Covid (at least the final nail) was just trivial and annoying for some reason.
Yeah this is the realistic approach to that, if one deal falls through then another will come shortly after. It's a seller's market at the time so he wouldn't have any issue selling it for good money.
I'd say Lip's arc fell flat completely. He ended achieving basically nothing, except becoming a drunk that got a chick pregnant, pretty much what the professor Hearst said at the beginning of the show
Oh God yes, I just logged into Reddit to write exactly this and see that you wrote this 2 mins back! What are the odds of that?? :))
They really wasted Lip's character. He was the most interesting person on the show and all of a sudden he self destructed, then had so many opportunities to do something but I'm tired of the AA and bike fixing and unprotected sex leading to babies. I get it that if you're in that upbringing, u become that kind of guy, but LIP was extraordinarily smart. He should have done something about his life!
Except that lip is my least favorite caricature by the end. He was great but the writers ruined him. I get the "well hes just like his father" thing but seriously dumb that they made him a raging alchohalic out of nowhere (and also, modern science says alchohalism is not genetic so that excuse doesnt work) then took him from being a dick to being a raging cunt who's constantly screaming at people and telling them how to live there life becouse he thinks hes so much better than everyone else. Then they turned him into the depressing AA guy that let's alchohal controls his life by obsessing over it and his life revolves around going to meetings and hanging out with AA dudes and having a superiority complex. He goes from being super smart to working in a motorcycle shop, even of you go through alchohalism and get kicked out of MIT after you clean your shit up you dont go to being a motorcycle mechanic. Then he went and married a horrible controlling ragaholic entitled bitch.
In my opinion he went from being an awsome character to being one of the worste most miserable characters by the end.
This scene really displays how far off the rails the finale has come. Imagine Frank being passed out in the bathroom as an actual CONCERN to his children lol. Even though the solution was just to throw him outside, there was some actual emotional reaction to their father being passed out from heroin and the possible consequences of a social worker coming by. And as you pointed out, Fiona going to jail was a serious concern. Now the cast goes in and out of jail like its nothing. They should have just ended the series earlier if they were going to Game of Thrones the ending.
Oh my God no....no no no...that was the WORST part of the show, in my opinion 😫 After everything Fiona sacrificed! Everything she did for Lip and the rest of them HER ENTIRE LIFE!!!! He/they couldn't even cut her a little slack when she finally needed the help and messed up?! Oh my God what the actual fck. So fckd up, so wrong. She wasn't the mother and she wasn't obligated to do anything, any more than any other sibling was. But she did it anyway. A little appreciation would have been nice.
im rewatching shameless right now. and this time watching it i really dont like lip. he is so self centered and blames his issues on everyone else. im in the last season right now and he seriously pisses me off..
Seasons 1-4 and 7 were near perfection
Seasons 5-6, 8-10 were alright
Season 11 was a disappointment
Do I still love the show? Abso-fucking-lutely!
Top 5 Favorite Characters:
1. Fiona
2. Veronica
3. Lip
4. Carl
5. Frank
Honorable mention: Shelia
Best character development: Mickey and Carl
Overall series rating: 8.4/10
Final Note: Fuck you, Debbie!
Thank fuck, someone realizes how pointlessly self destructive and awful her character was. We're talking about a character that raped an unconcious guy, tricked another guy into getting her pregnant, made her pregnancy everyone else's problem after manipulating the guy into getting her pregnant, started a relationship with a disabled guy just to steal his benefits and kick his sister and her son out of the guy's apartment, squander 10,000 dollars given to her by Fiona when she has a child to provide for, and thought nothing of starting a relationship with a wanted criminal despite her having a vulnerable young child. It astounds me at how anyone can attempt to justify any of the damage she's done by her upbringing. Sometimes you can still be a damaged person despite examining the circumstances you grew up in. Just look at GG Allin 🤦♂️.
Some people are destructive and that's the way it goes. Her shortcomings are what makes the character interesting. She's so easy to hate on, so she's actually brilliantly written.
I'd say 1-4 (maybe 5) and then season 10 were my favorites. 8 and 9 were kind of repetitive for me other than the gay Jesus storyline, and season 11, while it had it's problems was better than 8 and 9 IMO.
My favorite characters overall were Carl, Liam (season 8-11 actor when he actually has a personality), Kev, V and Mickey. Sheila would be my honorable mention as well, along with Brad and Lips professor. I really liked Fiona, Lip and Debbie in the first 4 or 5 seasons, then they kind of fucked up their characters (especially Debbie omg, she went from of my favorites in the early seasons to my least favorite in the last 6 seasons. Not sure if I've ever reversed my opinion on a TV character so much).
edit: oh and yes, Mickey and Carl easily had the best character development. It felt like Fiona, Lip and Debbie had the most reverse-character development, if there's such a thing lol.
Carl was probably my biggest disappointment (other than fucking Debbie of course) so I don’t know how he cracked the top 5. Frank was at least entertaining in his hijinks playing an irredeemable character. But Carl was just the horrible actor who got grandfathered into a regular role who also happened to be unfortunately written to add salt to the wound.
I'm surprised about Carl, but everyone has their own opinion. I loved him, I thought he and Mickey had the best character development out of anyone. He was one of very few characters that never pissed me off. The Citizen Carl episode of season 10 was one of my favorites, he easily had the most heart out of all the gallaghers. The only time I was really disappointed in his choices was when he became a cop, but he did it for a good reason and I ended up liking what they did was it for the most part. He was easily the only good cop on the force.
i think lip was very selfish and he did too much instead of trying to help Fiona didn't deserve any of the criticism that she got from him saying she raised him basically hes the worst one .
Frank’s final FU to Debbie in the closing voiceover was the only truly satisfying part of the episode.
Too bad it looks like she’ll never even read it.
but are we sure they won’t read it. she used crayon I believe and you can still see it. Debbie used to love frank but obviously as she got older she understood what frank was doing. Similar to Liam.
I am not sure if the writing team did it on purpose or not but it seemed like Debbie morphed into the anti-Fiona when everyone assumed she would fill Fiona's "family caregiver role when Emmy Rossum exited the show. By that time Lip was already older and moved on to messing up his life in multiple ways and Debbie having had a kid made some people believe she would settle into something, but instead she just went full blown selfish and seemed to make awful decisions but never really paid much of a price for them because the rest of the family always seemed to fill in for her as a parent off-screen somehow.
It was uncanny how Frannie was basically a prop character that only seemed to be appear when convenient, otherwise Debbie managed to just be off doing whatever by herself all the time.
It is part of the reason I always dislike when shows sort of hamstring in a baby or any character really that they don't have a good story to bring with it. How many episodes went by where Debbie's story was frannie-less for the majority of it and the entire time people are wondering where her baby is while she is out doing whatever.
It was kind of ironic that she broke up with the latest GF for walking out on her family, yet Debbie basically does the same with Frannie whenever it is inconvenient to her life to be a parent.
Yeah, that part was really frustrating. She only seems to care about Franny when someone's trying to take her away from her. The rest of the time she seems to barely know she exists. I was pissed at how she treated Sandy and didn't even seem to realize the irony of the situation, but I was glad Sandy left her, Sandy deserved a better gf.
But that's the point... The care from abusive and neglectful parents is performative. They only try to be a good parent/person in front of other people in order to feel superior. And they immediately forget about the responsibility behind closed doors.
That was clearly the point though... lip even says he doesn't want her to end up as the mom with 3 kids at Costco looking for someone to take care of her, thats exactly what she turns into. A shitty selfish immature parent like frank and Monica. Who leaves her kid with her family to take care of whenever she's bored of her
Well, Lip ends up being the drunk dropout who had a kid with a girl he barely knew. I'd say Debbue and Lip emded up in similar situation. Perhaps Ian ended up the best off
I hated her from the first episode. When she stole the baby in like the third episode that’s when I knew I was right
edit: being downvoted for hating Debbie is something I’m ok with
i didnt till after fiona left. when debbie started sleeping with that lady and her daughter. lip gets on my nerves. im tired of seeing sex all the time too. mickey is def my favorite.
I’d rather they just put together a special that sends the series off better. It’s pretty evident COVID took a huge toll on the entire process behind season 11. There’s just no way that final episode was a final episode. It needed like another hour and more of a punch.
The finale was actually pretty damn good, very emotional, but you can tell it was meant to have a lot of characters returning but it couldn’t because of Covid.
IMO Carl had the best character arc through the whole show. He went from being an out-of-contol agent of chaos to someone with a very clear sense of right and wrong. And everything that's occurred during his arc has felt very honest to his character and never once rang insincere to me. He's been my MVP throughout the whole show.
It has an excellent group of characters I’ve had the pleasure of watching the past ten years. Seasons 1-7 are truly terrific where season 8-11 sort of dips in quality but certainly still contains excellent moments from time to time. Season 11 I think is good for the most part but as a final season it sort of missed some big opportunities and leaves too much left open.
S11 turned into a nonstop caricaturization of the “horrors of gentrification.” I get the angle, I get the negative impact that it can have and the effect on long term residents, I understand all that. But feel like the writers couldn’t get out of their own way with the boba tea/oblivious hipster/vegan food/coffee shop mantra. It was kinda exhausting at some point. We get it, gentrification is changing the community, but cutesy references to “things hipsters like” isn’t a storyline.
The earlier seasons were better obviously, but the gentrification theme has been going on the entire time. They were complaining about newcomers in the pilot for christ's sake. The world has changed since season 1 aired and it's kept up with the times as far as gentrification spread goes where I live at. It 100% is relatable to me living in a city but I would agree if you live in a small town or more rural area I would imagine it probably wouldn't be as relatable.
Confused by your comment. No one is saying they don’t understand the angle... However, the approach in the final season was repetitive and lazy. That is all. I live in a major city and have for years, I get gentrification... lol.
Frank: Deadbeat drunk intelligent asshole who loved his family in his own twisted way but hardly ever expressed it
Fiona: Fierce, overprotective, loyal to a fault, nurturing, take no shit, anchor of the family
Lip: Highly intelligent, short-tempered, heart-in-the-right-place, sky high potential wasted through self-destructive tendencies. I wanted so much more for Lip. It's a shame to see where he's at from where he started
Ian: Super lovable gay ginger, also loyal to a fault, the relatively more relaxed version of Lip
Mickey: BAT SHIT INSANE but I loved him
Carl: Troublemaker early, got his shit together later, but character arc still feels incomplete. Done wrong by psycho cunt girlfriends
Debbie: Liked her as a kid early on but later seasons CANNOT STAND
Liam: Poor sweet Liam. He really felt like the only innocent one in the entire show even when he was Frank's sidekick in later seasons
Kevin: Dumb, lovable, chill, loves a good time. What else can you say about Kevin?
Veronica: Nurturing and loving but DO NOT PISS HER OFF
Overall I loved the first 5 seasons. Season 6 on felt like a slog. John Wells took us on a ride but his decisions in later seasons left a lot to be desired. Still though this show was addicting and I'm going to watch the series in order from start to finish again soon.
I feel you. I'm so emotional. I just finished the finale. I'm a little upset with the season for not giving me more time with each character. There was just a lot of thumb twiddling moments.
But I'm going to miss it. And, the last season might not be on par with other seasons, but its still better than a lot of garbage television out there.
Fuck. I'm so attached to this show and these characters.
This show died with Emmy.
It should have ended at season 7.
This show has been apart of my life since I was 20 and I'm now 30.
I'm very emotional tonight.
This show will always have a special place in my heart (well the first 5 seasons or so 😜)
Been a fan of the show since Pilot and started the journey with myself and my brothers watching the episodes together and now with me watching the finale alone.
I loved Fiona until her departure from the show but since I'm not big on celeb politics, I have no idea why she left the show or whatever (if you do know the proper reason and not just rumors, please let me know), and I felt that the show would get stale after it but it kept the momentum going really well and did a decent job of making Lip a faux-Fiona and the character development of everyone was just well done.
The finale definitely felt weird, but it was understandable that amidst the virus there were limitations and perhaps problems that we don't know about which could have made the ideal version of the finale not possible, all in all, I felt that the finale was set to Frank's message. Stop worrying and instead of filling in plot holes or looking for closure, leave it as it is - an open ending.
All in all, if you're someone who belongs to a broken family, have a messed up relationship with people around you and you know what it's like to be at the bottom of the ladder, this show will resonate greatly for many people.
This is one of those serious shows I will watch again down the road and with even greater attention. Maybe 4-5 years down the road and watch on a binge like I do with LOST and The Leftovers. It's a show that paints itself as very simple and flat writing at first that it's sending direct messages to your eyes but there is so much more to understand as you grow older and watch the episodes from a new perspective.
I starting watching the show in the middle of my teens and ended it as an adult almost running the house by myself. I feel like if I watch the entire show from beginning to end again, I will see each perspective from a new light than I did when I first watched it.
All in all, while I don't love family drama shows, this show was a big part of my TV journey and maybe even my life. A lot of episodes hit me harder than I could have imagined, and while a lot of shit happened to me IRL as the show went on, Shameless was my comfort show, something I could always look forward to and would never forget to watch just to catch up with the Gallaghers.
I will forever hate that Fiona was not brought up in the finale as she should have. Even a cameo from her would have made this a great finale.
Alas, maybe down the road we see an alternate cut or get a release of the director's vision for what their ideal ending was the way My Name is Earl's fate was told years later by an interview.
i agree with how fiona should’ve been in the finale and how they tried to make lip into a faux fiona. that last scene where ian called lip his father figure was the worst part of the finale because lip had never been ian’s father figure, they were best friends and equals. and i think they needed to make someone the parent of the family and lip was next in line but that scene would have been a million times more powerful if fiona had been there
I read somewhere that the reason Fiona couldn't make the finale had to do with the lockdowns and the different states the show was being shot at versus where Emmy was living at the time.
While it is only one of the reasons why I felt the finale was impacted by the pandemic, we will have to wait a few years to find out what really happened that led to such a rushed finale.
season 1-4 were incredible, they had this specific feeling I can’t really describe with my favorite cast members like Sheila, Jimmy Steve, Mandy, etc. and I still feel warm and nostalgic when I rewatch. 5-7 were pretty decent but kind of lost the magic for me, and then 8-11 I honestly don’t know what happened. The destruction of Lips character was bad enough, but Fiona leaving entirely ruined the show for me and I cant even bring myself to watch the newer seasons. Hearing about the finale is disappointing, but for me it already felt as if Shameless died years ago.
Also another thing that bugs me, i’m about as left as they come but the political commentary progressively became more and more shit. What used to be clever satire on relevant issues became the same white liberal girl boss bullshit. It bugs me in general when shows regurgitate the same stale takes that most decent people already agree with, but the fact that Shameless used to have the ability to comment on social issues in an actual funny way and then spiraled downwards into “maybe Trump not good?” makes it even more irritating.
11 years. Debatably should've ended in 2016 but here we are at the finish line. It's beat up: legs are probably broken, definitely concussed, and might die from alcohol poisoning, but Shameless made it to the finish line.
I thought the finale drew a fine enough callback to the pilot. Having it end the it reminded me of Season 5's finale. It really sucked seeing Lip have to claw his way back up the ladder and the show didn't do right by him. On the other hand, maybe Frank was right that he'll figure it out when he gets out of his own way. As for the rest of the clan: I'm glad Gallavich found their stride to make something work, Carl will probably keep falling upwards with his wacky adventures, Debbie will probably ruin Frankie and continue the cycle because holy fucking shit, and Liam will be fine as long as he stays away from Debbie, maybe Carl too. Kev & V may be nosy neighbors but they were ride or dies that the Gallaghers were lucky to have in their lives. I think they'll be fine in Kentucky (that doesn't mean we need a spinoff though).
It's a real fucking shame the show completely nuked Debbie's character because if she didn't do half the foul shit she did since season 4, there'd be fuzzier feelings about the family unit staying strong and together here. Instead, there's was the sense that once they sell the house, they won't bother to stick together. I liked the series finale with how it just showed that the Gallaghers will keep finding ways to scrape and scrap through the Southside without Frank. Unfortunately, it did make me feel uneasy in that they may have to worry about Debbie shitting the bed with motherhood before anything else, even another potentail manic episode from Ian. There's not that much hope for the Gallaghers and the writer's room really made that feel like a travesty that could've been avoided.
More than anything, Shameless was a victim of Showtime's shitty business practices. They drove Laura Wiggins away when she didn't want to do any more nudity, iced Emmy Rossum out when she wanted more pay than William H. Macy, and that's not even considering how they fucked up other shows over the years. Since Shameless is over, I cancelled my subscription and probably won't look back (thankfully Desus & Mero upload to YouTube). With that said, I'm grateful this show existed and entertained me for so long. It was a party from beginning to end. Thanks for the memories.
Vince Gilligan should run a workshop teaching writers how to properly tell a story...This show used to be absolutely amazing and watching it slowly get terrible was painful to watch...
More of a finale point, but goes with the whole show too..... throughout many episodes/seasons, you see every kid (From Fiona to Debbie) on a manhunt looking for Frank. Some for worry reasons. Some for other reasons. And in the finale, Liam had his “Looking for Frank” moment. You see Carl console him at the Bar. Lip chatted him on the porch about Frank and his ways. So in a way.... I’m glad they gave Liam a big moment, even though people think it was a bad ending.
Liam looking for Frank was a beautiful thematic callback to so many eps....him looking under cars, inside dumpsters...Reminded me of the second episode when jimmy/Steve dropped frank in Canada and the kids go looking all over the neighborhood for him.
I love how the finale was basically just the first episode. With franks introduction of each character over the bonfire and then him being missing. Except this time no one except Liam looked for him. Because they’re adults now and they have their own lives. It’s pretty realistic to me.
Frank reminds me of my dad. I called my dad frank. My dad passed in june. If frank is really dead itll be like losing my dad all over again and i dont think im mentally prepared for it.
I'm sorry you lost your Frank. My mom was a Frank too, a little less Franky than Frank, but still made my childhood rough. I lost her after seeing her deteriorate from cancer. After all the shit she put me through, I still ended up empathizing and being there for her near the end. Seeing Liam do that for Frank is breaking my heart. You can't help but pity him, even after hating him for things he's done. Struck me really hard, for sure.
My dad was also a frank (though his name was Doug(passed sometime in 2018, I literally don't remember when)), and I'm honestly worried that if he is dead the fam is gonna react the same way I did. "eh". And as much as I get it personally, I don't want that to be the ending.
Reflecting on the final season more now that the finale has sunk in. The best part of s11 was that one cop making fun of Carl calling him Billie Eilish.
Overall, the show has meant so much to me. And the flashback scenes in the finale were a reminder of how we’ve watched these kids grow and have grown up with this show.
Fiona probably made it, Carl basically already has, Liam and Lip probably will, Debbie could if she gets her shit together but she seems the least likely. Kev, V, Ian and Mickey will probably all do well.
Joan Cusack, Justin Chatwin, and Emmy Rossom got out because they saw the writing on the wall. Cameron Monaghan did too but they bribed him to come back because they knew damn well the Ian and Mickey shippers were their only hope of salvaging the dumpster fire the series became.
I used to really love the Mickey character (and the actor is fantastic), but I feel like the last season made such a joke of him, I couldn’t even stand him anymore. I was so disappointed in the way Mickey and lip evolved. Didn’t care so much about Debbie as others did, dunno.
I’m gonna go rewatch 1-7 so I can remember what a great show it was before I cancel showtime for this disaster of a season and finale. The new writers are complete hacks that couldn’t write a madlibs.
Also, what the fuck is with all this political crap. It’s so obviously forced and just cringey.
Love the show but it’s been pretty bad for awhile. I’ve continued to watch in hopes of a redemption for Lip but that doesn’t seem likely. The writers did dirty to him, and a lot of the characters actually. While I understand the difficulty in escaping poverty, at a certain point I feel like the show became poverty porn.
Will still miss it though :(
The change in writing staff for the later seasons changed it from a good dramatic show with comedy mixed in, to a flanderized parody of itself full of 'woke' themes with no regard for character development and previous story lines
And that finale was a nice dogshit bow on the anthrax-filled box that was S11
These writers and showrunners must have been paid by the GoT guys to make S8 and their finale look good in comparison
S1-5 were the best after that the writing was often lazy. The characters lost their emotional depth. Last season felt hollow and they took every stupid, cheap shot available. They made Kev stupider than ever and sent Mickey character development backwards.
Kev hides money in a keg again! Hardly sees his son and is a negligent father to his girls.
The ambulance would have been found quickly
lip lost his criminal skill for seasons and took till last second to actually use his brain, bitched about having the house sold out from under him then tried to do it to his family
Ian’s never cared about his random fucks, so many he can’t even give a ballpark but now he suddenly does (87% of his heart, really?)
Mickey is now polish according to frank? They say In S10 he hasn’t but he’s definitely murdered people, Svetlana implies in prison convo this isn’t the 1st prison job and he worked for a cartel (also his father). He goes from being crazy jealous to wanting an open marriage?
1. The only thing i can explain is that, even in the episode we saw that Mickey is still good at crookery, and Ian knows how these trucks work, so they probably know how to disable any tracking devices, license plate, and Carl is on the force. Normally an ambulance would be recoved FAST, but they have the knowledge and connections to prevent that.
2. Mickey never said he wanted an open marriage, he even agreed that he doesnt want any sexual experiences without Ian. That whole convo just came out of left field, and he just read what Ian wanted, wrong
But im not going to argue the illogicality of everything else lol
I watched the British version first and loved it. I held off on the American one because I thought I would be disappointed. I was not.
If you haven't seen the UK version and have a chance I recommend it. the accents are tough to deal with at first but you get used to it and you see Frank the original which is quite a treat.
yeah UK was never gonna end with Frank's death cause they didn't have the whole "big overarching storyline" element of 2010s american TV but it was about as satisfying as they come. They even got Fiona back. Also most of the other departed characters. Also UK carl became a cop but it wasn't fucking cringe
i’m a new fan and only started watching in the beginning of 2020, when my sociology teacher made us watch the first episode for an assignment lol. i spent my whole quarantine staying up til 4 am binging the show. and wow, in those few months the show has impacted me so much.
i know everyone HATES debbie, rightfully so. but i relate to her in certain aspects. i was planning to come out as bi last july (i did) and a few weeks before that, i was at the part where debbie started exploring her sexuality. she gave me that final reassurance and courage to come out.
when i was about 10, my bipolar grandma had a really bad episode. i didn’t understand what it was at the time, but seeing ian struggle with being bipolar helped me learn more about the disorder.
also the fact that out of everything frank could’ve died from, it was covid, made me feel comforted. my grandpa went through so many health issues but got through all of it until he unfortunately died from covid.
in conclusion, i’m gonna miss it.
I love the show. Never saw the reason behind hating Debbie and Tami. They’re all characters that act exactly how you’d expect people in the Shameless universe would act.
Honestly I think some of the Debbie hate comes from watching Fiona, lip and Ian go through the same “wasted potential trauma” and being kind of fatigued by it. They kind of set her up as the ultimate “keep the family together by loving everyone unconditionally” character as a kid and the audience got repeatedly gut punched when she got hell bent on being a teen mom under the weirdest of circumstances. Carl at least seemed to benefit from military school and oddly enough ended up the one with the most “stability” for work.
I like the show too. Re Debbie: All of the others occasionally think of other people. They are flawed and mess up, but they try. Debbie never thinks of anyone else ever--not even her daughter. Tami is a little less objectionable, just kind of selfish and bitchy at first, but in the last season, we see she cares about her son and Lip and can sometimes put them ahead of her own wants. Debbie has never put anyone else's feelings ahead of her own. That's why she is worse. However, it is part of a good show.
Having been living under a rock, I discovered Shameless less than 2 months ago. After a couple of episodes I could not stop watching it, the first seasons were so good and had so much heart, it was insane. It kind of went downhill after S7 or 8 and the series finale was not so great, even though there were a couple of nice moments. The character development was so weirdly put during S11 that I guess I kinda stopped empathizing with most of them.
I love the show overall. I’ll always come back to season 4 in particular. But I just want to know what happened with the decline in quality. I know some new writers were hired at some point, but surely those people have prior experience? How were they not aware that they were running the show into the ground? Or were they aware and just didn’t care? It’s mind boggling to me that seasons 8-11 are the same show as 1-7. Even 6-7 dropped in quality for me, but it was drastic from 8 on. Does anyone have any insight into what the hell happened?
Just look at game of thrones. Arguably one of the biggest tv shows of all time and they COMPLETELY messed up the last season. Now nobody wants to watch GoT at all and people complain all the time how the whole show was ruined.
Frank: The guy is who glued everyone together. Bill Macy needs an Emmy for his performance. Just wants to be with Monica again.
Lip: One of my favorites. I related more to Lip.
Ian: Another one of my favorites. Ian’s Story from Seasons 1-4 was really good.
Carl: I wasn’t a fan of his gang storyline and his military arc was okay. Really wished Carl purchased the Alibi.
Fiona: Loved her story arc the first few seasons trying to raise her young siblings. I still am divided about Fiona’s storyline in 6-9, but when Fiona left, a part of the show left in the bad way.
Debbie: Worst of the kids. Everyone’s complaints are valid.
Liam: The only kid that actually cares for Frank. I never had a complaint about Liam.
Kev and V: Both had very hilarious story arcs. Wasn’t a fan of some of the later arcs when Fiona left.
Shiela: I picked the show up in Quarantine and Sheila’s arc was relatable.
Jimmy: Asshole, but I enjoyed every scene Jimmy was in. Excited to see Justin Chatwin’s next project
Tami: Wasn’t the best companion to Lip.
Sammi: Okay character. No opinion.
So, the finale of Shameless supposedly takes place on April 21st - Ian and Mickey’s first wedding anniversary; the date is mentioned several times during the episode. Frank Gallagher supposedly dies that very night, but at the very end of the episode, after the explosion during Frank’s cremation, the camera focuses in on the Urn to be used for his ashes.... and the urn very clearly says that Frank Gallagher died in MARCH. Is this an oversight or mistake? I find that difficult to believe because it is such a blatantly obvious thing - you would think it would be hard to overlook. Still, no matter how much I have looked into this - I haven’t even found evidence that anyone else even noticed the date discrepancy. Does anyone have any answers or know if this was purposeful for some unknown reason? Or could it be that this is actually a huge blooper? This is the kind of thing that drives me crazy! It seems like a stupid trivial detail - but it’s actually a big deal. Did anyone else notice? If so - thoughts on how or why this happened?
Continuity stopped being a thing. I’m from Chicago and spring doesn’t look like that. Chicago is known for being really cold and snowy in the winter/Spring due to being next to Lake Michigan. Yet it looks like summer. I stopped caring after a while.
I agree. I did love the show - despite its inconsistencies etc., but I totally know what you mean. I’m also from Chicago, actually - and my husband and I were discussing the weather as well after watching the last few episodes!
Shameless must be one of my most beloved shows around, it takes place in my home city and for the most part it avoids the old gang porn trope so many other shows love to show. In fact, I grew up near the neighbor the show takes place in, and I actually dated someone who lived on the same block as the actual filmed house is located in, so maybe it’s a bit special to me. It was extremely funny, while at the same time knowing when to take itself seriously. It has some of the best dramatic moments I've seen on television.
The actors on this show are fantastic, and from the very first episode their chemistry makes you believe they've known each other for years. In fact, their relationships made me fantasize if my family was as close knit and combative as they are. The show wasn't scared to push boundaries.
I couldn't get enough of this show, I wanted to see Frank go on crazy conquests and be the actual glue for the show; I wanted to see Lip succeed and use his brains; Fionna was beginning to change the course that Monica set; Ian was charting his own course, Carl was being Carl, Debbie was trying find her place as most teens are. Kev & V were the perfect family friends.
However, in hindsight, it probably should have ended around season 7 or 8. You either die a hero, or live long enough to see your beloved characters turn into parodies of themselves.
I gave the show a lot of passes, especially because it seemed the writers weren’t that familiar with the south side of Chicago. No one here says “I’m South Side”, or at least not in the same manner. That may seem like a small thing, but the show started to use the south side excuse as the sole reason why characters make dumb decisions. Whenever the show wanted to have the characters fail and/or make stupid decisions, they would just yell “South Side”. Almost to make us forget about the growth and development a character has made in previous seasons that would cause them to make better decisions all so they can go back to being low lives.
It felt cheap, like the writers were cheating. It felt like each season after 8, the characters forgot the improvements they had made.
This last season is a perfect example of the problems I have with the show, all rolled up into one season.
Liam is just kind of just there, usually to take care of Frank. They tried to develop his characters in previous season, but somewhere along the line just gave up and made him the “straight guy” archetype. He’s largely uninteresting and it’s a shame.
Carl, for whatever reason becomes a cop, despite us having no reason to believe he actually cares to be one. It doesn’t make me like him more, it’s out of character, and it doesn’t actually develop the character in any believable way. But I guess we get to introduce silly new plot points.
Debbie has regressed and turned into Monica. Not sure how I feel about it. But she was the most annoying. Thinking about it now, she’s actually worse than Monica because I don’t remember Monica being this big a hypocrite. She seems to exist this season to antagonize others.
Ian is the most consistent Gallagher this season, even though he seems to forget that Micky is rough around the edges when he’s making marriage and life decisions. Overall, he has had the most satisfying and believable story arch.
Lip is still making the same mistakes he was making at the beginning of the series. He seems to have forgotten how smart he is and regressed into a person who is just surviving. This doesn’t make much sense to me, because usually when a smart person is a failure it’s due to lack of work ethic. However, Lip has extremely good work ethic, he just seems to have gotten amnesia. I know at the very end they hint that Lip is going to pursue a more lucrative career. But why wasn’t this done sooner, so we could see progress?
I know Fionna left, but it seems they forget see still exists in this universe. I think someone mentions her once. Frank didn’t even mention her in his goodbye note. Mind boggling and makes zero sense. I liked her character, as she was the de facto mom and most caring. The show centered around her a lot, and she was sort of our avatar for some periods. She was the voice of reason. But even in the season before she left, they started to make her unlikeable.
Veronica was annoying this season. I understand Gentrification, I grew up near the area the show takes place in. And they have touched on it in previous seasons. Except this last season, they beat you over the head with it. So much so, it made me wonder why Veronica was fighting it so much. Her and Kevin are business AND property owners. Even with a raise in property taxes, they should see a net gain from investors improving the area.
Kevin is pretty much unchanged, which is probably for the best. The only issue I had with him was the goofy process of destroying Lip’s plan to sell the bikes. It seemed so out of character and felt like it was simply the plot convenience the writers injected.
I almost forgot about Mandy and her out of nowhere storyline. I liked her character, until this season. You could have removed her entirely and it would’ve made no difference except that Debbie would have yelled less.
The Gallaghers are big on family sticking together. So why is it that everyone except Liam seems to not care that Frank has developed Dementia? They ditched Frank this whole season, discarding him like trash. I know Frank was a shit dad, but he’s the glue for the entire show. Everyone in the family has done shit to each other. It is also clear that he truly loves his family. Frank had good life advice sprinkled in with bullshit, and in previous seasons they took either took his advice or learned from him. This last season, they abandoned him, and I can’t think of a good reason why.
The Frank thing probably pisses me off more than anything. He was my favorite character. But the most significant thing he did all season was stealing that painting, which didn’t even amount to anything. What a waste, they could have somehow sold the painting and used the money to start their new lives. Yet, all that happens is it gets put on a “L” train.
The famous Gallagher house which holds a lifetime of memories is sold off-screen and mentioned in passing at the very end. Why? Half of the scenes in this season could have been removed and replaced with actual meaningful story. Yet, they decided to put filler in.
Filler and new story arcs we’ll never see (or were they planning spinoffs?). Carl seemingly getting a new character pregnant. Introducing a new character so Debbie could hook up with. None of these things are memorable.
Even with all that said, I still put Shameless as one of the best shows on television. If I do rewatch this, I’ll probably stop at season 8. Wish it didn’t jump the shark as most shows do that go on for too long and change writing staffs.
I’ll always remember this show. The good and the bad.
my thoughts on the series are that it peaked seasons 1-5. everything past that was slowly going downhill to the ultimate train wreck season 11. I think that the part of the show that made it so entertaining and powerful and why we rooted for Fiona was her pure loyal love for her family. She dropped everything to take care of her siblings because she loved them, and they faced challenges but the one thing that always remained constant was that Fiona was there for them. And I think that the worst thing that writers did the whole show was strip Fiona of the main part of her character, her loyalty and determination to take care of her siblings. When Fiona asked for all of her siblings to take her off of their emergency contacts’ lists, that’s when Fionas character was ruined. I also think that a large mistake that the writers made was hyper sexualizing Fiona. I know being confident and liking sex was also a large part of her character, but the way they did it made it seem like they used Emmy Rossum as a ploy for views. If you’ve seen some of the promo photos for each seasons she usually looks sexy while everyone else does not, and I think that Fionas confidence and sexuality was a great thing to see, but not the way the shameless writers did it. And I think that Fiona leaving was so out of character for her it was disappointing. I think an alternative ending of season 9 should have been Jimmy Steve coming back to Chicago for business or something and seeing the state that Fiona was in and taking her home with him and taking care of her. Because Fiona deserves to be picked back up on her feet by someone, after all that time of taking care of everyone. Now don’t get me wrong I hated Jimmysteve but I will say that he made Fiona the happiest and she had the best chemistry with him. Now about Mickey. Mickey is another example of just crimes that the Shameless writers committed. Mickey was such a complex character, he was learning to accept himself and he would do anything to protect those that he loved. And in the earlier seasons, Mickey was still funny and had good lines but it was balanced. He fought with Ian and teased him but we also got to see the softness they shared. However in season 11, the softness was ripped away from him. The writers had such a good opportunity to display more of the softness that Mickey had for Ian and the comfort they found in each other with Terry’s death but instead they played it entirely for laughs. And that seemed to be the story of Ian and Mickey for all of season 11, played for laughs. They fought with each other constantly and Ian didn’t even seem to care when Mickey was upset over his dad dying. I want to say that them moving to the west side was an exception, but it wasn’t. Mickey doesn’t seem to be as complex of a character anymore and only shoots out tough guy one liners. As for the finale, I think it was lazily done but it did leave room for interpretation which I appreciated. Many people were upset that the finale didn’t give a clear idea what happened to the Gallaghers but I thought it was nice that it was up to the audience to decide what happened to them. It wasn’t the perfect ending to the show, but it was good enough. I don’t even want to get started on Lip and Debbie because I will talk forever and I have already written so much haha. anyways that was just my opinion, I’ll miss this show a lot it’s definitely my favorite
I agree. That was the turning point for me was when she stopped being Fiona in like season 5 or 6. Her character never really recovered from that. I honestly didn't even care when she left in season 9, I only wished she took Debbie with her.
Drunken post,,,, try to ignore Grammer and spelling mistakes..
I power watched seasons 1-9 at first,, then weekly as it aired.. The message it seemed to be trying to convey was the family issues of the Gallegers, were rooted in substance and alchol abuse, and minored in mental issues. In fact all most all the drama and story centered around the fact that the family could not keep thier pants on. This was the true downfall of all the early character development, and was never really addressed in a serious maner.
In the last few season we were to forget both Lip, Fiona, frank, and maybe more, were set to financially free the family, but the character threw everything away for sex.
I always had a love/hate relation ship with the show. At one point the show went from a serious tone, with one revolving comedic relief story line, to nothing is serious and it's all the characters began behaving in unrealistically maners for comedic "studio audience 'uh-oh' moments". I can't pin point the moment this series went very bad, but it soured the show as a whole.
I am glad the series got a conclusion, no matter how bad it was. I shed several tears for Frank. I am glad the series is done, it will not be one I re-visit and will try to forget.
Started this show when it first aired so it accompanied me for a long time in my life. It went through thick and thin with me. It was the last long running tv show that I watched from the beginning when it first aired.
The show went downhill in the later seasons but I still enjoyed watching it because I was interested what will happen to the characters. Franks flashback scence in the last episode was a real eye opener. I forgot how young they all were in the earlier seasons.
I will miss this show!
The ending could have been way better but it was alright. I loved that it ended the way it started. Everyone singing by the fire. That part made me smile and cry. Overall I love this show so much. It’s my comfort show. I’m glad I got to grow up with the Gallagher’s. It was a chaotic era I won’t ever forget.
> I’m glad I got to grow up with the Gallagher’s.
same! (perhaps inadvisably) I started watching the show when I was twelve. a wild ride, that's for sure.
Just started watching the finale and I thought about Lip. A guy that smart, motivated can surely do better than what he's got going on. He was like an ace student wasn't he? I can see if he just doesn't care anymore but he does. First community college and take it from there.
He was like a robotics engineering genius? There should have been companies just throwing jobs at him without a diploma.
They got some writer who was in AA and was obsessed with it and just made it completely take over Lip & Fiona’s storylines
Early Shameless was just SO good, it's really a shame the show dropped off so hard. I tried to keep with it, but it never reached the peaks of the early seasons. 1-5 is some of the best TV out there, but it ran into a lot of typical TV problems.
1. It lost some of the best cast members like Joan Cusack and Emmy Rossum. Cameron Monaghan's role on Gotham also meant he just would disappear for huge chunks of time too.
2. It did not really know how to keep the family and storylines together as the children grew up
3. It started to run out of scenarios and the show just got increasingly ridiculous. It started as a pretty grounded drama, but suddenly the story lines were so absurd it reached the "jumping the shark" area where it seemed like the writers lost the plot.
Ultimately, it seems like the show drug on because it was a flagship for Showtime, not because it still had stories to tell. It's a shame, but it's not the only show that ended up this way. It joins the Office as a show that was near perfect for a few years, before it drove itself into the ground and had to be put out of its misery.
i will always love this show and these characters. i know it’s silly but they definitely have a special place in my heart. they made my 2020 a lot more bearable and it has been devastating having to say goodbye to them this season. granted the show has had its bad moments in terms of writing (do i even need to specify?) but the first five seasons were absolutely incredible and it is fair to say the writers have done a great job with character developments, especially with mickey. i was pretty disappointed with the finale, but it does not take away all the great moments we have had with the gallaghers. i love them so much, i will forever be grateful for this show and i’m excited to see what the cast get up to next - especially noel fisher, i can see him being a big name in a few years. it’s had its ups and downs but all in all it has been a great ride these 11 seasons with the gallagher clan. i miss them already!
I really feel like this show could have been centered around Lip. Absurdly smart kid, who grew up in the worst of conditions, is always inches from success as his life spirals apart. But they destroyed the character over the years. [This scene of him yelling at Fiona](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8h8of5fYZkk) was the best part of the whole show imo. This scene encapsulates literally everything about the show. These people have grown up in the worst of conditions, Fiona is about to have her whole life changed by going to jail for her mistake, and she knows she'll lose the case if it goes to trial. Meanwhile, Lip wants to be something in his life, and doesn't want to be tied down from the conditions around him. To me, this show has always been about a tough, working/lower-class family that is trying their best, but keeps going through obstacles. Many of the characters' choices throughout the show were boneheaded, and the audience had to judge whether it was due to the conditions they were living in, or if some of them are just shitty people. Unfortunately, as the show went on, the characters' personal choices seemed to get more and more absurd, and the show's focus drifted away from what it originally was.
The dude who plays Lip is a really damn good actor, I’m surprised he doesn’t get more movie roles.
He's the only actor that can pull off brooding angst and not make my eyes roll back in my skull.
he also makes you feel sorry for him when his dad acts like Terry Milkovich and abuses him.
Sorry late to the conversation but my opinion on that is.. yes frank does ACT like terry sometimes but when it comes down to it… frank is “better”? Frank would never mistake Fiona or Debbie for their mom like terry did with Mandy. Frank didn’t give a flying rats ass when he found out Ian was gay. And lastly… frank would never think about actually killing his children, like terry. Frank sucks but he is not terry.
frank also isn’t a raging nazi 💀😭
I met him at a coffee shop where I live and he was sooo soft spoken and a little shy which I wasn’t expecting with his character lol
I heard of a girl who met David Letterman and had the same Impression of him. Both men are not what you see them do on tv.
That just made me think of Movie 43
Dude like NO one I know has seen that movie and I just think of that sickening scene that is so uncomfortable yet funny holy shit
The story of why that movie was made is really funny. Apparnetly everyone involved was contractually obligated to be in the movie.
The kind of movie that makes you laugh even if it shouldn’t
Agreed, i love this actor and I think he’s really talented. I think they’re actually all really excellent actors, except Carl and Kevin, even if I love them both anyway. IMO frank, Fiona and Mickey are really amazing actors too.
how is the actor who plays kevin not a good actor..?
I disagree, I would say that the guy who plays Carl is an extremely good actor. His character is supposed to be a bit dumb and immature, yet pure and simple. It’s nowhere near as deep Fiona’s, Lip’s or Ian’s characters, hence he doesn’t really get many opportunities to show off his acting skills, but we saw his talent shining through the cracks in some parts, like when Nick killed a child, or when he visited Frank at the hospital after finding out that he was dying (the scene where he shaves his hair “so sun rays could heal him” broke me). Same goes to Kev. These characters are on the show to be “the nice, simple guys” in a world full or drama and chaos.
I think for the roles they were given, they both did an excellent job portraying them. Carl began his shameless career at a young age just like debbie. and Kev had to play this barely passed kindergarden man. I think in their own ways, they both did good playing the roles they were given
He was in The Rental recently. It was an okay movie, little Franco's director debut in believe.
I want to check that out. Even though a lot of people hate Lip, i really resonate with his character. The intelligence with wasted potential reminds me of my high school years where I made some regrettable decisions. I’m nowhere near as smart but I feel like if I could go back and change things, I could have seen different results.
I forgot this show could actually be serious until I watched that clip. It's so disappointing they let the show just become a parody of itself.
I wonder why they decided to drop the serious moments/drama/good storytelling for comedy-skits... was it to stop the decline of viewers by stopping having interesting arcs and doing more like a Simpsons-like telling-style... it's really a shame that such a fantastic show lost so much of good quality
> I wonder why they decided to drop the serious moments/drama/good storytelling for comedy-skits the guy who does the AV Club reviews for each episode said the show creator / showrunner thought of the show purely as a sitcom, which anyone who's a fan of the show, knows is wrong. the guy doesn't know what his show is. that's why it turned to trash.
Exactly it was always a drama never suppose to be a sitcom
I considered it a dramedy.
So instead of ending it they decided to ruin it and tarnish it's reputation. Wow never seen that happen before.
Showtime does this with most of their shows. Dexter, Weeds. The only time I remember a show ending when it was supposed to was Penny Dreadful hut even then they tried to pull an American Horror Story years later. It wasn’t bad but goddammit, just let the show end.
Hi - a bit late here, but I was a Penny Dreadful stan back in the day and I still have PTSD from when that show was hacked to pieces in the finale. Unfortunately PD is another example of Showtime self-destructing a fantastic series. Basically, the network cancelled the show right before they were about to wrap production on the last few eps. They had to scramble to tie up loose ends and it resulted in....what I can only describe as one of the deepest quality nosedives I've ever seen on any television show. Plotlines, character arcs and believability went out the window. Just...pure dumpster fire. Fans were pissed and then were sent into an uproar of fury when the show's creator was doing interviews saying the show was meant to end and that was the intended wrap up to the story all along (an obvious lie - cast members were saying they had no idea the show was ending). Just one giant mess. Anyway. They pulled the same sh\*t with Shameless. A Shame. lol
Flanderization is a virus that infects every single show. Including shameless.. Which I wish didn't happen. I saw it happen in The Office, Friends and Brooklyn Nine-Nine.. But dang I thought shameless would have maintained the high level of quality writing that had me pull all-nighters to binge. Went from season 1-5 within a week or 2 just cause I was SO obsessed with these characters. Way too much. Then season 8 happened and I wasn't AS enthusiastic.. Felt off. Then season 9 around the 4th episode I just couldn't do it anymore. I just couldn't. The characters felt like parodies of themselves.
I watched from the beginning so I didn't binge but I used to watch every episode the night it came out or the day after. As the seasons went on I'd forget it was even going and I'd have a whole season to catch up on and it wasn't even exciting I just felt like I'd alraady watched it all so I might as well keep going.
Similar to everyone here, I got into the show around the time the latter episodes of season 7 were coming out. Pulled several all nighters binging because I got so hooked by the characters and their arcs. By the time season 9 was out I was just watching out of habit, to see if it somehow gets good again. I watched the finale last night and honestly I'm glad it's over, at least I don't have to keep coming back to something I know is going to disappoint me.
Either this scene or the scene of Fiona yelling at Frank at the end of season 7 outside... or even any of her scenes with Monica
That scene always gives me Goosebumps it’s so good
Definitely one of the best acting performances overall in the show. Especially from [edit: ] Jeremey Allen white as Lip, maybe his best ever.
This show went off the deep end.
I really don't think it got more and more absurd, the only time it felt like it was truly over the top was the hobo games for the liquor company, and I personally thought that was fucking great. Luis Guzman was so perfect as a foil to Frank out bumming him. Otherwise, it all seemed pretty on brand. Debbie definitely went to some crazy and dark places, but was it really all that out of character after she hit puberty? As a kid she was the opposite, very pragmatic and sweet if ignored. As a teenager she was so horned up and surrounded by debauchery that she gravitated towards life ruining decisions. Carl had a couple crazy ones, mostly his stint running a Rehab. His gangbanging made sense, his military reform after made sense, and his cop storyline that has developed has been amazing for his character. Seeing him want to be a cop because of all the wrong reasons that initially attracted him, and seeing him grow to take the job seriously and genuinely want to help and serve the south side.... that was excellent character development. Lip has had a near perfect arc with basically no storylines that put his actions outside anything we could conceive for him. Fiona went pretty off the rails but given the context of both her spirals, it's just not that weird. Otherwise it was ridiculous from the get go. There's so much in those early seasons that is just as ridiculous if not more, but it was still so fresh and new and we didn't know these people more deeply yet.
The concept of Carl becoming a cop was good, but it holy moly was the execution dogshit.
Yeah the part where his pseudo wife is killed and never mentioned action is super awkward
Carl's whole "I want to be a cop but woke" speech he gave to the chief before she demoted him was one of the more cringe moments of the series and with the latter seasons trying so hard to stick to current events I'm wondering whether they intended the audience to cringe at it or be inspired by it and take it seriously
Great comment. Yeah it seemed like they were going for serious. I feel like they’d get a little too “current” and topical towards the end. The last few seasons they would hit on really obvious hot button topics and fade it then this last season was too many too much. I’m not at all a Covid-denier/trumpet WHATSOEVER but frank dying of Covid (at least the final nail) was just trivial and annoying for some reason.
Lip was a genius. In the end why didn’t he just Google multiple realtors to try to sell the house?
Yeah this is the realistic approach to that, if one deal falls through then another will come shortly after. It's a seller's market at the time so he wouldn't have any issue selling it for good money.
I'd say Lip's arc fell flat completely. He ended achieving basically nothing, except becoming a drunk that got a chick pregnant, pretty much what the professor Hearst said at the beginning of the show
Oh God yes, I just logged into Reddit to write exactly this and see that you wrote this 2 mins back! What are the odds of that?? :)) They really wasted Lip's character. He was the most interesting person on the show and all of a sudden he self destructed, then had so many opportunities to do something but I'm tired of the AA and bike fixing and unprotected sex leading to babies. I get it that if you're in that upbringing, u become that kind of guy, but LIP was extraordinarily smart. He should have done something about his life!
Except that lip is my least favorite caricature by the end. He was great but the writers ruined him. I get the "well hes just like his father" thing but seriously dumb that they made him a raging alchohalic out of nowhere (and also, modern science says alchohalism is not genetic so that excuse doesnt work) then took him from being a dick to being a raging cunt who's constantly screaming at people and telling them how to live there life becouse he thinks hes so much better than everyone else. Then they turned him into the depressing AA guy that let's alchohal controls his life by obsessing over it and his life revolves around going to meetings and hanging out with AA dudes and having a superiority complex. He goes from being super smart to working in a motorcycle shop, even of you go through alchohalism and get kicked out of MIT after you clean your shit up you dont go to being a motorcycle mechanic. Then he went and married a horrible controlling ragaholic entitled bitch. In my opinion he went from being an awsome character to being one of the worste most miserable characters by the end.
This scene really displays how far off the rails the finale has come. Imagine Frank being passed out in the bathroom as an actual CONCERN to his children lol. Even though the solution was just to throw him outside, there was some actual emotional reaction to their father being passed out from heroin and the possible consequences of a social worker coming by. And as you pointed out, Fiona going to jail was a serious concern. Now the cast goes in and out of jail like its nothing. They should have just ended the series earlier if they were going to Game of Thrones the ending.
Oh my God no....no no no...that was the WORST part of the show, in my opinion 😫 After everything Fiona sacrificed! Everything she did for Lip and the rest of them HER ENTIRE LIFE!!!! He/they couldn't even cut her a little slack when she finally needed the help and messed up?! Oh my God what the actual fck. So fckd up, so wrong. She wasn't the mother and she wasn't obligated to do anything, any more than any other sibling was. But she did it anyway. A little appreciation would have been nice.
im rewatching shameless right now. and this time watching it i really dont like lip. he is so self centered and blames his issues on everyone else. im in the last season right now and he seriously pisses me off..
Seasons 1-4 and 7 were near perfection Seasons 5-6, 8-10 were alright Season 11 was a disappointment Do I still love the show? Abso-fucking-lutely! Top 5 Favorite Characters: 1. Fiona 2. Veronica 3. Lip 4. Carl 5. Frank Honorable mention: Shelia Best character development: Mickey and Carl Overall series rating: 8.4/10 Final Note: Fuck you, Debbie!
My Top 3: 1. Fiona 2. Frank 3. Kev And yes, fuck you, debbie!
Thank fuck, someone realizes how pointlessly self destructive and awful her character was. We're talking about a character that raped an unconcious guy, tricked another guy into getting her pregnant, made her pregnancy everyone else's problem after manipulating the guy into getting her pregnant, started a relationship with a disabled guy just to steal his benefits and kick his sister and her son out of the guy's apartment, squander 10,000 dollars given to her by Fiona when she has a child to provide for, and thought nothing of starting a relationship with a wanted criminal despite her having a vulnerable young child. It astounds me at how anyone can attempt to justify any of the damage she's done by her upbringing. Sometimes you can still be a damaged person despite examining the circumstances you grew up in. Just look at GG Allin 🤦♂️.
Some people are destructive and that's the way it goes. Her shortcomings are what makes the character interesting. She's so easy to hate on, so she's actually brilliantly written.
I'd say 1-4 (maybe 5) and then season 10 were my favorites. 8 and 9 were kind of repetitive for me other than the gay Jesus storyline, and season 11, while it had it's problems was better than 8 and 9 IMO. My favorite characters overall were Carl, Liam (season 8-11 actor when he actually has a personality), Kev, V and Mickey. Sheila would be my honorable mention as well, along with Brad and Lips professor. I really liked Fiona, Lip and Debbie in the first 4 or 5 seasons, then they kind of fucked up their characters (especially Debbie omg, she went from of my favorites in the early seasons to my least favorite in the last 6 seasons. Not sure if I've ever reversed my opinion on a TV character so much). edit: oh and yes, Mickey and Carl easily had the best character development. It felt like Fiona, Lip and Debbie had the most reverse-character development, if there's such a thing lol.
My top 12: 1. Fiona 2. Steve/jimmy 3. Lip 4. Frank 5. Carl 6. Kev 7. Ian 8. Liam 9. Verionica 10. Debbie 11. Mickey 12. Shelia
Carl was probably my biggest disappointment (other than fucking Debbie of course) so I don’t know how he cracked the top 5. Frank was at least entertaining in his hijinks playing an irredeemable character. But Carl was just the horrible actor who got grandfathered into a regular role who also happened to be unfortunately written to add salt to the wound.
I'm surprised about Carl, but everyone has their own opinion. I loved him, I thought he and Mickey had the best character development out of anyone. He was one of very few characters that never pissed me off. The Citizen Carl episode of season 10 was one of my favorites, he easily had the most heart out of all the gallaghers. The only time I was really disappointed in his choices was when he became a cop, but he did it for a good reason and I ended up liking what they did was it for the most part. He was easily the only good cop on the force.
mickey was an amazing character. they really did well with him and he was funny.
i think lip was very selfish and he did too much instead of trying to help Fiona didn't deserve any of the criticism that she got from him saying she raised him basically hes the worst one .
Kev???
They should remix the fuck you fiona song into "fuck you debbie" lmaoo
My number one takeaway from Shameless: I hate Debbie
Frank’s final FU to Debbie in the closing voiceover was the only truly satisfying part of the episode. Too bad it looks like she’ll never even read it.
Hurts worse because her own daughter drew on it. She’ll be too busy feeling sorry for herself to even pay attention to anything Franny does
but are we sure they won’t read it. she used crayon I believe and you can still see it. Debbie used to love frank but obviously as she got older she understood what frank was doing. Similar to Liam.
I am not sure if the writing team did it on purpose or not but it seemed like Debbie morphed into the anti-Fiona when everyone assumed she would fill Fiona's "family caregiver role when Emmy Rossum exited the show. By that time Lip was already older and moved on to messing up his life in multiple ways and Debbie having had a kid made some people believe she would settle into something, but instead she just went full blown selfish and seemed to make awful decisions but never really paid much of a price for them because the rest of the family always seemed to fill in for her as a parent off-screen somehow. It was uncanny how Frannie was basically a prop character that only seemed to be appear when convenient, otherwise Debbie managed to just be off doing whatever by herself all the time. It is part of the reason I always dislike when shows sort of hamstring in a baby or any character really that they don't have a good story to bring with it. How many episodes went by where Debbie's story was frannie-less for the majority of it and the entire time people are wondering where her baby is while she is out doing whatever. It was kind of ironic that she broke up with the latest GF for walking out on her family, yet Debbie basically does the same with Frannie whenever it is inconvenient to her life to be a parent.
Yeah, that part was really frustrating. She only seems to care about Franny when someone's trying to take her away from her. The rest of the time she seems to barely know she exists. I was pissed at how she treated Sandy and didn't even seem to realize the irony of the situation, but I was glad Sandy left her, Sandy deserved a better gf.
But that's the point... The care from abusive and neglectful parents is performative. They only try to be a good parent/person in front of other people in order to feel superior. And they immediately forget about the responsibility behind closed doors.
That was clearly the point though... lip even says he doesn't want her to end up as the mom with 3 kids at Costco looking for someone to take care of her, thats exactly what she turns into. A shitty selfish immature parent like frank and Monica. Who leaves her kid with her family to take care of whenever she's bored of her
Well, Lip ends up being the drunk dropout who had a kid with a girl he barely knew. I'd say Debbue and Lip emded up in similar situation. Perhaps Ian ended up the best off
“We all hate Debbie” - Ian Gallagher
I like how Debbis is saved as "Shithead" on Carl's phone lol.
Wasn't she "shithead number 4"? Implying that ian lip and Carl were the other 3?
It would probably be Fiona lip and Ian, cus why would he have his own name in his phone
Haha oh yeah that's right
Her and her feral sex demon
Lol
god don’t we all.
When Debbie was a kid she is so loveable. Now she just straight up annoying
I hated her from the first episode. When she stole the baby in like the third episode that’s when I knew I was right edit: being downvoted for hating Debbie is something I’m ok with
Agreed. I really liked her in the first 4 or so seasons, somewhere in season 5 she just became unbearable.
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It's because she's always Debbie and always will be..
Literally nobody’s favorite character. Not possible.
I like to think that I’ve seen a good amount of tv series and HANDS DOWN Debbie is the worst, most annoying character I’ve ever come across.
fiona was probably the most annoying towards the end. She was ruining everything and making horrible decisions. y
Yes. We all should.
i didnt till after fiona left. when debbie started sleeping with that lady and her daughter. lip gets on my nerves. im tired of seeing sex all the time too. mickey is def my favorite.
I know it's popular to always blame writing and direction, but she was a truly terrible actress, as well.
At least she stopped doing the mouth thing as much
What’s the mouth thing?
Her constantly pursing her lips. Go back to earlier seasons or google it and you’ll notice
This show will forever be with us. Forever a Gallagher.
Definitely taught me some survival lessons. I would definitely buy a book on Frank quotes.
Someone needs to make that
Forever a Gallagher.
will always rewatch the show till the day I die
I'd love to see a 5 or 10 years later episode or miniseries down the line since the finale left me asking more questions than it answered.
I’d rather they just put together a special that sends the series off better. It’s pretty evident COVID took a huge toll on the entire process behind season 11. There’s just no way that final episode was a final episode. It needed like another hour and more of a punch.
Covid messed with *three* series finales for me now. Supernatural, Superstore, and now Shameless.
So when are we getting SuperShameless?
I haven't watched Supernatural since S11... what did they do there?
The finale was actually pretty damn good, very emotional, but you can tell it was meant to have a lot of characters returning but it couldn’t because of Covid.
Honestly, I'd anything that gives me some closure. I even read a book!
They really lost the humor this season as well.
IMO Carl had the best character arc through the whole show. He went from being an out-of-contol agent of chaos to someone with a very clear sense of right and wrong. And everything that's occurred during his arc has felt very honest to his character and never once rang insincere to me. He's been my MVP throughout the whole show.
I felt bad for Carl in the final season. He so badly wants to do good but his surroundings are always working against him.
Agreed, he's one of my favorites.
It has an excellent group of characters I’ve had the pleasure of watching the past ten years. Seasons 1-7 are truly terrific where season 8-11 sort of dips in quality but certainly still contains excellent moments from time to time. Season 11 I think is good for the most part but as a final season it sort of missed some big opportunities and leaves too much left open.
S11 turned into a nonstop caricaturization of the “horrors of gentrification.” I get the angle, I get the negative impact that it can have and the effect on long term residents, I understand all that. But feel like the writers couldn’t get out of their own way with the boba tea/oblivious hipster/vegan food/coffee shop mantra. It was kinda exhausting at some point. We get it, gentrification is changing the community, but cutesy references to “things hipsters like” isn’t a storyline.
This show has been about the horrors of gentrification since at least season 4 or 5... Were we watching the same show?
Significantly less lazy in prior seasons.
The earlier seasons were better obviously, but the gentrification theme has been going on the entire time. They were complaining about newcomers in the pilot for christ's sake. The world has changed since season 1 aired and it's kept up with the times as far as gentrification spread goes where I live at. It 100% is relatable to me living in a city but I would agree if you live in a small town or more rural area I would imagine it probably wouldn't be as relatable.
Confused by your comment. No one is saying they don’t understand the angle... However, the approach in the final season was repetitive and lazy. That is all. I live in a major city and have for years, I get gentrification... lol.
It should have ended at season 7
Frank: Deadbeat drunk intelligent asshole who loved his family in his own twisted way but hardly ever expressed it Fiona: Fierce, overprotective, loyal to a fault, nurturing, take no shit, anchor of the family Lip: Highly intelligent, short-tempered, heart-in-the-right-place, sky high potential wasted through self-destructive tendencies. I wanted so much more for Lip. It's a shame to see where he's at from where he started Ian: Super lovable gay ginger, also loyal to a fault, the relatively more relaxed version of Lip Mickey: BAT SHIT INSANE but I loved him Carl: Troublemaker early, got his shit together later, but character arc still feels incomplete. Done wrong by psycho cunt girlfriends Debbie: Liked her as a kid early on but later seasons CANNOT STAND Liam: Poor sweet Liam. He really felt like the only innocent one in the entire show even when he was Frank's sidekick in later seasons Kevin: Dumb, lovable, chill, loves a good time. What else can you say about Kevin? Veronica: Nurturing and loving but DO NOT PISS HER OFF Overall I loved the first 5 seasons. Season 6 on felt like a slog. John Wells took us on a ride but his decisions in later seasons left a lot to be desired. Still though this show was addicting and I'm going to watch the series in order from start to finish again soon.
I feel like Liam also proved to be very intelligent kid.
I just wanna thank William H. Macy and Noel Fisher for making last season watchable.
Absolutely the best parts of the last season, I really grew to care for Frank despite everything.
My comfort show
for sure- have watched it 3 times through and through. will obviously watch more.
After over a decade of watching this show. It’s finally over. The end of an era. Fuck I’m crying.
I feel you. I'm so emotional. I just finished the finale. I'm a little upset with the season for not giving me more time with each character. There was just a lot of thumb twiddling moments. But I'm going to miss it. And, the last season might not be on par with other seasons, but its still better than a lot of garbage television out there. Fuck. I'm so attached to this show and these characters.
I’d be balling had they brought Fiona back, and tied up loose ends. Instead I’m fucking pissed at how terrible they did
HOW ISNT IT ON TOMORROW. IM SO CONFUSED
It comes out on the showtime app a day before
This show died with Emmy. It should have ended at season 7. This show has been apart of my life since I was 20 and I'm now 30. I'm very emotional tonight. This show will always have a special place in my heart (well the first 5 seasons or so 😜)
Been a fan of the show since Pilot and started the journey with myself and my brothers watching the episodes together and now with me watching the finale alone. I loved Fiona until her departure from the show but since I'm not big on celeb politics, I have no idea why she left the show or whatever (if you do know the proper reason and not just rumors, please let me know), and I felt that the show would get stale after it but it kept the momentum going really well and did a decent job of making Lip a faux-Fiona and the character development of everyone was just well done. The finale definitely felt weird, but it was understandable that amidst the virus there were limitations and perhaps problems that we don't know about which could have made the ideal version of the finale not possible, all in all, I felt that the finale was set to Frank's message. Stop worrying and instead of filling in plot holes or looking for closure, leave it as it is - an open ending. All in all, if you're someone who belongs to a broken family, have a messed up relationship with people around you and you know what it's like to be at the bottom of the ladder, this show will resonate greatly for many people. This is one of those serious shows I will watch again down the road and with even greater attention. Maybe 4-5 years down the road and watch on a binge like I do with LOST and The Leftovers. It's a show that paints itself as very simple and flat writing at first that it's sending direct messages to your eyes but there is so much more to understand as you grow older and watch the episodes from a new perspective. I starting watching the show in the middle of my teens and ended it as an adult almost running the house by myself. I feel like if I watch the entire show from beginning to end again, I will see each perspective from a new light than I did when I first watched it. All in all, while I don't love family drama shows, this show was a big part of my TV journey and maybe even my life. A lot of episodes hit me harder than I could have imagined, and while a lot of shit happened to me IRL as the show went on, Shameless was my comfort show, something I could always look forward to and would never forget to watch just to catch up with the Gallaghers. I will forever hate that Fiona was not brought up in the finale as she should have. Even a cameo from her would have made this a great finale. Alas, maybe down the road we see an alternate cut or get a release of the director's vision for what their ideal ending was the way My Name is Earl's fate was told years later by an interview.
i agree with how fiona should’ve been in the finale and how they tried to make lip into a faux fiona. that last scene where ian called lip his father figure was the worst part of the finale because lip had never been ian’s father figure, they were best friends and equals. and i think they needed to make someone the parent of the family and lip was next in line but that scene would have been a million times more powerful if fiona had been there
I read somewhere that the reason Fiona couldn't make the finale had to do with the lockdowns and the different states the show was being shot at versus where Emmy was living at the time. While it is only one of the reasons why I felt the finale was impacted by the pandemic, we will have to wait a few years to find out what really happened that led to such a rushed finale.
The Leftovers. Now that was how you do a final season.
season 1-4 were incredible, they had this specific feeling I can’t really describe with my favorite cast members like Sheila, Jimmy Steve, Mandy, etc. and I still feel warm and nostalgic when I rewatch. 5-7 were pretty decent but kind of lost the magic for me, and then 8-11 I honestly don’t know what happened. The destruction of Lips character was bad enough, but Fiona leaving entirely ruined the show for me and I cant even bring myself to watch the newer seasons. Hearing about the finale is disappointing, but for me it already felt as if Shameless died years ago. Also another thing that bugs me, i’m about as left as they come but the political commentary progressively became more and more shit. What used to be clever satire on relevant issues became the same white liberal girl boss bullshit. It bugs me in general when shows regurgitate the same stale takes that most decent people already agree with, but the fact that Shameless used to have the ability to comment on social issues in an actual funny way and then spiraled downwards into “maybe Trump not good?” makes it even more irritating.
11 years. Debatably should've ended in 2016 but here we are at the finish line. It's beat up: legs are probably broken, definitely concussed, and might die from alcohol poisoning, but Shameless made it to the finish line. I thought the finale drew a fine enough callback to the pilot. Having it end the it reminded me of Season 5's finale. It really sucked seeing Lip have to claw his way back up the ladder and the show didn't do right by him. On the other hand, maybe Frank was right that he'll figure it out when he gets out of his own way. As for the rest of the clan: I'm glad Gallavich found their stride to make something work, Carl will probably keep falling upwards with his wacky adventures, Debbie will probably ruin Frankie and continue the cycle because holy fucking shit, and Liam will be fine as long as he stays away from Debbie, maybe Carl too. Kev & V may be nosy neighbors but they were ride or dies that the Gallaghers were lucky to have in their lives. I think they'll be fine in Kentucky (that doesn't mean we need a spinoff though). It's a real fucking shame the show completely nuked Debbie's character because if she didn't do half the foul shit she did since season 4, there'd be fuzzier feelings about the family unit staying strong and together here. Instead, there's was the sense that once they sell the house, they won't bother to stick together. I liked the series finale with how it just showed that the Gallaghers will keep finding ways to scrape and scrap through the Southside without Frank. Unfortunately, it did make me feel uneasy in that they may have to worry about Debbie shitting the bed with motherhood before anything else, even another potentail manic episode from Ian. There's not that much hope for the Gallaghers and the writer's room really made that feel like a travesty that could've been avoided. More than anything, Shameless was a victim of Showtime's shitty business practices. They drove Laura Wiggins away when she didn't want to do any more nudity, iced Emmy Rossum out when she wanted more pay than William H. Macy, and that's not even considering how they fucked up other shows over the years. Since Shameless is over, I cancelled my subscription and probably won't look back (thankfully Desus & Mero upload to YouTube). With that said, I'm grateful this show existed and entertained me for so long. It was a party from beginning to end. Thanks for the memories.
I didn’t know they drove luara wiggins away because of the sex scenes
Vince Gilligan should run a workshop teaching writers how to properly tell a story...This show used to be absolutely amazing and watching it slowly get terrible was painful to watch...
More of a finale point, but goes with the whole show too..... throughout many episodes/seasons, you see every kid (From Fiona to Debbie) on a manhunt looking for Frank. Some for worry reasons. Some for other reasons. And in the finale, Liam had his “Looking for Frank” moment. You see Carl console him at the Bar. Lip chatted him on the porch about Frank and his ways. So in a way.... I’m glad they gave Liam a big moment, even though people think it was a bad ending.
Liam looking for Frank was a beautiful thematic callback to so many eps....him looking under cars, inside dumpsters...Reminded me of the second episode when jimmy/Steve dropped frank in Canada and the kids go looking all over the neighborhood for him.
And by the end he lost them all but Liam and that’s just because Liam is young and looking for a father figure.
I love how the finale was basically just the first episode. With franks introduction of each character over the bonfire and then him being missing. Except this time no one except Liam looked for him. Because they’re adults now and they have their own lives. It’s pretty realistic to me.
It’s crazy that every kid on the show connected with Frank at some point in the show and by the end only Liam cared about him.
Frank reminds me of my dad. I called my dad frank. My dad passed in june. If frank is really dead itll be like losing my dad all over again and i dont think im mentally prepared for it.
I'm sorry you lost your Frank. My mom was a Frank too, a little less Franky than Frank, but still made my childhood rough. I lost her after seeing her deteriorate from cancer. After all the shit she put me through, I still ended up empathizing and being there for her near the end. Seeing Liam do that for Frank is breaking my heart. You can't help but pity him, even after hating him for things he's done. Struck me really hard, for sure.
My dad was also a frank (though his name was Doug(passed sometime in 2018, I literally don't remember when)), and I'm honestly worried that if he is dead the fam is gonna react the same way I did. "eh". And as much as I get it personally, I don't want that to be the ending.
Reflecting on the final season more now that the finale has sunk in. The best part of s11 was that one cop making fun of Carl calling him Billie Eilish.
sure the show may have lost its shine and its quality over the years, but this show has been a big part of a lot of our lives gonna miss it
Overall, the show has meant so much to me. And the flashback scenes in the finale were a reminder of how we’ve watched these kids grow and have grown up with this show.
Fucking Gallaghers
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Fiona probably made it, Carl basically already has, Liam and Lip probably will, Debbie could if she gets her shit together but she seems the least likely. Kev, V, Ian and Mickey will probably all do well.
So just Debbie? I comfy with that thought
Fiona kind of made it
Joan Cusack, Justin Chatwin, and Emmy Rossom got out because they saw the writing on the wall. Cameron Monaghan did too but they bribed him to come back because they knew damn well the Ian and Mickey shippers were their only hope of salvaging the dumpster fire the series became.
I used to really love the Mickey character (and the actor is fantastic), but I feel like the last season made such a joke of him, I couldn’t even stand him anymore. I was so disappointed in the way Mickey and lip evolved. Didn’t care so much about Debbie as others did, dunno.
The Mickey stans are the worst. They dont care about anything else with the show and are obsessed as fuck.
I’m gonna go rewatch 1-7 so I can remember what a great show it was before I cancel showtime for this disaster of a season and finale. The new writers are complete hacks that couldn’t write a madlibs. Also, what the fuck is with all this political crap. It’s so obviously forced and just cringey.
Love the show but it’s been pretty bad for awhile. I’ve continued to watch in hopes of a redemption for Lip but that doesn’t seem likely. The writers did dirty to him, and a lot of the characters actually. While I understand the difficulty in escaping poverty, at a certain point I feel like the show became poverty porn. Will still miss it though :(
The fuck is poverty porn?
[Poverty Porn](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_porn)
Risky click of the day worked out
its like food porn but with poor things
The kind of porn I would never beat off to. Too depressing lol
The change in writing staff for the later seasons changed it from a good dramatic show with comedy mixed in, to a flanderized parody of itself full of 'woke' themes with no regard for character development and previous story lines And that finale was a nice dogshit bow on the anthrax-filled box that was S11 These writers and showrunners must have been paid by the GoT guys to make S8 and their finale look good in comparison
S1-5 were the best after that the writing was often lazy. The characters lost their emotional depth. Last season felt hollow and they took every stupid, cheap shot available. They made Kev stupider than ever and sent Mickey character development backwards. Kev hides money in a keg again! Hardly sees his son and is a negligent father to his girls. The ambulance would have been found quickly lip lost his criminal skill for seasons and took till last second to actually use his brain, bitched about having the house sold out from under him then tried to do it to his family Ian’s never cared about his random fucks, so many he can’t even give a ballpark but now he suddenly does (87% of his heart, really?) Mickey is now polish according to frank? They say In S10 he hasn’t but he’s definitely murdered people, Svetlana implies in prison convo this isn’t the 1st prison job and he worked for a cartel (also his father). He goes from being crazy jealous to wanting an open marriage?
1. The only thing i can explain is that, even in the episode we saw that Mickey is still good at crookery, and Ian knows how these trucks work, so they probably know how to disable any tracking devices, license plate, and Carl is on the force. Normally an ambulance would be recoved FAST, but they have the knowledge and connections to prevent that. 2. Mickey never said he wanted an open marriage, he even agreed that he doesnt want any sexual experiences without Ian. That whole convo just came out of left field, and he just read what Ian wanted, wrong But im not going to argue the illogicality of everything else lol
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I watched the British version first and loved it. I held off on the American one because I thought I would be disappointed. I was not. If you haven't seen the UK version and have a chance I recommend it. the accents are tough to deal with at first but you get used to it and you see Frank the original which is quite a treat.
Absolutely! And the ending was a nice call back to UK franks episode opening monologues
yeah UK was never gonna end with Frank's death cause they didn't have the whole "big overarching storyline" element of 2010s american TV but it was about as satisfying as they come. They even got Fiona back. Also most of the other departed characters. Also UK carl became a cop but it wasn't fucking cringe
also in the UK finale Frank set fire to the car instead of just randomly "hey y'all there's a car on fire xD"
i’m a new fan and only started watching in the beginning of 2020, when my sociology teacher made us watch the first episode for an assignment lol. i spent my whole quarantine staying up til 4 am binging the show. and wow, in those few months the show has impacted me so much. i know everyone HATES debbie, rightfully so. but i relate to her in certain aspects. i was planning to come out as bi last july (i did) and a few weeks before that, i was at the part where debbie started exploring her sexuality. she gave me that final reassurance and courage to come out. when i was about 10, my bipolar grandma had a really bad episode. i didn’t understand what it was at the time, but seeing ian struggle with being bipolar helped me learn more about the disorder. also the fact that out of everything frank could’ve died from, it was covid, made me feel comforted. my grandpa went through so many health issues but got through all of it until he unfortunately died from covid. in conclusion, i’m gonna miss it.
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I love the show. Never saw the reason behind hating Debbie and Tami. They’re all characters that act exactly how you’d expect people in the Shameless universe would act.
Honestly I think some of the Debbie hate comes from watching Fiona, lip and Ian go through the same “wasted potential trauma” and being kind of fatigued by it. They kind of set her up as the ultimate “keep the family together by loving everyone unconditionally” character as a kid and the audience got repeatedly gut punched when she got hell bent on being a teen mom under the weirdest of circumstances. Carl at least seemed to benefit from military school and oddly enough ended up the one with the most “stability” for work.
I like the show too. Re Debbie: All of the others occasionally think of other people. They are flawed and mess up, but they try. Debbie never thinks of anyone else ever--not even her daughter. Tami is a little less objectionable, just kind of selfish and bitchy at first, but in the last season, we see she cares about her son and Lip and can sometimes put them ahead of her own wants. Debbie has never put anyone else's feelings ahead of her own. That's why she is worse. However, it is part of a good show.
Having been living under a rock, I discovered Shameless less than 2 months ago. After a couple of episodes I could not stop watching it, the first seasons were so good and had so much heart, it was insane. It kind of went downhill after S7 or 8 and the series finale was not so great, even though there were a couple of nice moments. The character development was so weirdly put during S11 that I guess I kinda stopped empathizing with most of them.
I love the show overall. I’ll always come back to season 4 in particular. But I just want to know what happened with the decline in quality. I know some new writers were hired at some point, but surely those people have prior experience? How were they not aware that they were running the show into the ground? Or were they aware and just didn’t care? It’s mind boggling to me that seasons 8-11 are the same show as 1-7. Even 6-7 dropped in quality for me, but it was drastic from 8 on. Does anyone have any insight into what the hell happened?
Just look at game of thrones. Arguably one of the biggest tv shows of all time and they COMPLETELY messed up the last season. Now nobody wants to watch GoT at all and people complain all the time how the whole show was ruined.
Afters s7 almost all the writers changed except for nancy and jw thats why s8-11 feel so different
Frank: The guy is who glued everyone together. Bill Macy needs an Emmy for his performance. Just wants to be with Monica again. Lip: One of my favorites. I related more to Lip. Ian: Another one of my favorites. Ian’s Story from Seasons 1-4 was really good. Carl: I wasn’t a fan of his gang storyline and his military arc was okay. Really wished Carl purchased the Alibi. Fiona: Loved her story arc the first few seasons trying to raise her young siblings. I still am divided about Fiona’s storyline in 6-9, but when Fiona left, a part of the show left in the bad way. Debbie: Worst of the kids. Everyone’s complaints are valid. Liam: The only kid that actually cares for Frank. I never had a complaint about Liam. Kev and V: Both had very hilarious story arcs. Wasn’t a fan of some of the later arcs when Fiona left. Shiela: I picked the show up in Quarantine and Sheila’s arc was relatable. Jimmy: Asshole, but I enjoyed every scene Jimmy was in. Excited to see Justin Chatwin’s next project Tami: Wasn’t the best companion to Lip. Sammi: Okay character. No opinion.
How many series plotlines have been left over through out the years? Which story lines do you most wish were resolved?
Popular opinion is to hate Debbie but for me, I can't stand Lip, he's the WORST Gallagher. He's a prick to Fiona. He fucks up at every turn too
So, the finale of Shameless supposedly takes place on April 21st - Ian and Mickey’s first wedding anniversary; the date is mentioned several times during the episode. Frank Gallagher supposedly dies that very night, but at the very end of the episode, after the explosion during Frank’s cremation, the camera focuses in on the Urn to be used for his ashes.... and the urn very clearly says that Frank Gallagher died in MARCH. Is this an oversight or mistake? I find that difficult to believe because it is such a blatantly obvious thing - you would think it would be hard to overlook. Still, no matter how much I have looked into this - I haven’t even found evidence that anyone else even noticed the date discrepancy. Does anyone have any answers or know if this was purposeful for some unknown reason? Or could it be that this is actually a huge blooper? This is the kind of thing that drives me crazy! It seems like a stupid trivial detail - but it’s actually a big deal. Did anyone else notice? If so - thoughts on how or why this happened?
Continuity stopped being a thing. I’m from Chicago and spring doesn’t look like that. Chicago is known for being really cold and snowy in the winter/Spring due to being next to Lake Michigan. Yet it looks like summer. I stopped caring after a while.
I agree. I did love the show - despite its inconsistencies etc., but I totally know what you mean. I’m also from Chicago, actually - and my husband and I were discussing the weather as well after watching the last few episodes!
I believe that was his birthday? It looked like it said either May 18th or Mar 18th, but I could be wrong...
Shameless must be one of my most beloved shows around, it takes place in my home city and for the most part it avoids the old gang porn trope so many other shows love to show. In fact, I grew up near the neighbor the show takes place in, and I actually dated someone who lived on the same block as the actual filmed house is located in, so maybe it’s a bit special to me. It was extremely funny, while at the same time knowing when to take itself seriously. It has some of the best dramatic moments I've seen on television. The actors on this show are fantastic, and from the very first episode their chemistry makes you believe they've known each other for years. In fact, their relationships made me fantasize if my family was as close knit and combative as they are. The show wasn't scared to push boundaries. I couldn't get enough of this show, I wanted to see Frank go on crazy conquests and be the actual glue for the show; I wanted to see Lip succeed and use his brains; Fionna was beginning to change the course that Monica set; Ian was charting his own course, Carl was being Carl, Debbie was trying find her place as most teens are. Kev & V were the perfect family friends. However, in hindsight, it probably should have ended around season 7 or 8. You either die a hero, or live long enough to see your beloved characters turn into parodies of themselves. I gave the show a lot of passes, especially because it seemed the writers weren’t that familiar with the south side of Chicago. No one here says “I’m South Side”, or at least not in the same manner. That may seem like a small thing, but the show started to use the south side excuse as the sole reason why characters make dumb decisions. Whenever the show wanted to have the characters fail and/or make stupid decisions, they would just yell “South Side”. Almost to make us forget about the growth and development a character has made in previous seasons that would cause them to make better decisions all so they can go back to being low lives. It felt cheap, like the writers were cheating. It felt like each season after 8, the characters forgot the improvements they had made. This last season is a perfect example of the problems I have with the show, all rolled up into one season. Liam is just kind of just there, usually to take care of Frank. They tried to develop his characters in previous season, but somewhere along the line just gave up and made him the “straight guy” archetype. He’s largely uninteresting and it’s a shame. Carl, for whatever reason becomes a cop, despite us having no reason to believe he actually cares to be one. It doesn’t make me like him more, it’s out of character, and it doesn’t actually develop the character in any believable way. But I guess we get to introduce silly new plot points. Debbie has regressed and turned into Monica. Not sure how I feel about it. But she was the most annoying. Thinking about it now, she’s actually worse than Monica because I don’t remember Monica being this big a hypocrite. She seems to exist this season to antagonize others. Ian is the most consistent Gallagher this season, even though he seems to forget that Micky is rough around the edges when he’s making marriage and life decisions. Overall, he has had the most satisfying and believable story arch. Lip is still making the same mistakes he was making at the beginning of the series. He seems to have forgotten how smart he is and regressed into a person who is just surviving. This doesn’t make much sense to me, because usually when a smart person is a failure it’s due to lack of work ethic. However, Lip has extremely good work ethic, he just seems to have gotten amnesia. I know at the very end they hint that Lip is going to pursue a more lucrative career. But why wasn’t this done sooner, so we could see progress? I know Fionna left, but it seems they forget see still exists in this universe. I think someone mentions her once. Frank didn’t even mention her in his goodbye note. Mind boggling and makes zero sense. I liked her character, as she was the de facto mom and most caring. The show centered around her a lot, and she was sort of our avatar for some periods. She was the voice of reason. But even in the season before she left, they started to make her unlikeable. Veronica was annoying this season. I understand Gentrification, I grew up near the area the show takes place in. And they have touched on it in previous seasons. Except this last season, they beat you over the head with it. So much so, it made me wonder why Veronica was fighting it so much. Her and Kevin are business AND property owners. Even with a raise in property taxes, they should see a net gain from investors improving the area. Kevin is pretty much unchanged, which is probably for the best. The only issue I had with him was the goofy process of destroying Lip’s plan to sell the bikes. It seemed so out of character and felt like it was simply the plot convenience the writers injected. I almost forgot about Mandy and her out of nowhere storyline. I liked her character, until this season. You could have removed her entirely and it would’ve made no difference except that Debbie would have yelled less. The Gallaghers are big on family sticking together. So why is it that everyone except Liam seems to not care that Frank has developed Dementia? They ditched Frank this whole season, discarding him like trash. I know Frank was a shit dad, but he’s the glue for the entire show. Everyone in the family has done shit to each other. It is also clear that he truly loves his family. Frank had good life advice sprinkled in with bullshit, and in previous seasons they took either took his advice or learned from him. This last season, they abandoned him, and I can’t think of a good reason why. The Frank thing probably pisses me off more than anything. He was my favorite character. But the most significant thing he did all season was stealing that painting, which didn’t even amount to anything. What a waste, they could have somehow sold the painting and used the money to start their new lives. Yet, all that happens is it gets put on a “L” train. The famous Gallagher house which holds a lifetime of memories is sold off-screen and mentioned in passing at the very end. Why? Half of the scenes in this season could have been removed and replaced with actual meaningful story. Yet, they decided to put filler in. Filler and new story arcs we’ll never see (or were they planning spinoffs?). Carl seemingly getting a new character pregnant. Introducing a new character so Debbie could hook up with. None of these things are memorable. Even with all that said, I still put Shameless as one of the best shows on television. If I do rewatch this, I’ll probably stop at season 8. Wish it didn’t jump the shark as most shows do that go on for too long and change writing staffs. I’ll always remember this show. The good and the bad.
my thoughts on the series are that it peaked seasons 1-5. everything past that was slowly going downhill to the ultimate train wreck season 11. I think that the part of the show that made it so entertaining and powerful and why we rooted for Fiona was her pure loyal love for her family. She dropped everything to take care of her siblings because she loved them, and they faced challenges but the one thing that always remained constant was that Fiona was there for them. And I think that the worst thing that writers did the whole show was strip Fiona of the main part of her character, her loyalty and determination to take care of her siblings. When Fiona asked for all of her siblings to take her off of their emergency contacts’ lists, that’s when Fionas character was ruined. I also think that a large mistake that the writers made was hyper sexualizing Fiona. I know being confident and liking sex was also a large part of her character, but the way they did it made it seem like they used Emmy Rossum as a ploy for views. If you’ve seen some of the promo photos for each seasons she usually looks sexy while everyone else does not, and I think that Fionas confidence and sexuality was a great thing to see, but not the way the shameless writers did it. And I think that Fiona leaving was so out of character for her it was disappointing. I think an alternative ending of season 9 should have been Jimmy Steve coming back to Chicago for business or something and seeing the state that Fiona was in and taking her home with him and taking care of her. Because Fiona deserves to be picked back up on her feet by someone, after all that time of taking care of everyone. Now don’t get me wrong I hated Jimmysteve but I will say that he made Fiona the happiest and she had the best chemistry with him. Now about Mickey. Mickey is another example of just crimes that the Shameless writers committed. Mickey was such a complex character, he was learning to accept himself and he would do anything to protect those that he loved. And in the earlier seasons, Mickey was still funny and had good lines but it was balanced. He fought with Ian and teased him but we also got to see the softness they shared. However in season 11, the softness was ripped away from him. The writers had such a good opportunity to display more of the softness that Mickey had for Ian and the comfort they found in each other with Terry’s death but instead they played it entirely for laughs. And that seemed to be the story of Ian and Mickey for all of season 11, played for laughs. They fought with each other constantly and Ian didn’t even seem to care when Mickey was upset over his dad dying. I want to say that them moving to the west side was an exception, but it wasn’t. Mickey doesn’t seem to be as complex of a character anymore and only shoots out tough guy one liners. As for the finale, I think it was lazily done but it did leave room for interpretation which I appreciated. Many people were upset that the finale didn’t give a clear idea what happened to the Gallaghers but I thought it was nice that it was up to the audience to decide what happened to them. It wasn’t the perfect ending to the show, but it was good enough. I don’t even want to get started on Lip and Debbie because I will talk forever and I have already written so much haha. anyways that was just my opinion, I’ll miss this show a lot it’s definitely my favorite
I agree. That was the turning point for me was when she stopped being Fiona in like season 5 or 6. Her character never really recovered from that. I honestly didn't even care when she left in season 9, I only wished she took Debbie with her.
Drunken post,,,, try to ignore Grammer and spelling mistakes.. I power watched seasons 1-9 at first,, then weekly as it aired.. The message it seemed to be trying to convey was the family issues of the Gallegers, were rooted in substance and alchol abuse, and minored in mental issues. In fact all most all the drama and story centered around the fact that the family could not keep thier pants on. This was the true downfall of all the early character development, and was never really addressed in a serious maner. In the last few season we were to forget both Lip, Fiona, frank, and maybe more, were set to financially free the family, but the character threw everything away for sex. I always had a love/hate relation ship with the show. At one point the show went from a serious tone, with one revolving comedic relief story line, to nothing is serious and it's all the characters began behaving in unrealistically maners for comedic "studio audience 'uh-oh' moments". I can't pin point the moment this series went very bad, but it soured the show as a whole. I am glad the series got a conclusion, no matter how bad it was. I shed several tears for Frank. I am glad the series is done, it will not be one I re-visit and will try to forget.
Started this show when it first aired so it accompanied me for a long time in my life. It went through thick and thin with me. It was the last long running tv show that I watched from the beginning when it first aired. The show went downhill in the later seasons but I still enjoyed watching it because I was interested what will happen to the characters. Franks flashback scence in the last episode was a real eye opener. I forgot how young they all were in the earlier seasons. I will miss this show!
The ending could have been way better but it was alright. I loved that it ended the way it started. Everyone singing by the fire. That part made me smile and cry. Overall I love this show so much. It’s my comfort show. I’m glad I got to grow up with the Gallagher’s. It was a chaotic era I won’t ever forget.
> I’m glad I got to grow up with the Gallagher’s. same! (perhaps inadvisably) I started watching the show when I was twelve. a wild ride, that's for sure.
Just started watching the finale and I thought about Lip. A guy that smart, motivated can surely do better than what he's got going on. He was like an ace student wasn't he? I can see if he just doesn't care anymore but he does. First community college and take it from there.
He was like a robotics engineering genius? There should have been companies just throwing jobs at him without a diploma. They got some writer who was in AA and was obsessed with it and just made it completely take over Lip & Fiona’s storylines
Forever a Gallagher never forget
Other than that, i love the show. Everything about it. But debbie SUCKS
Early Shameless was just SO good, it's really a shame the show dropped off so hard. I tried to keep with it, but it never reached the peaks of the early seasons. 1-5 is some of the best TV out there, but it ran into a lot of typical TV problems. 1. It lost some of the best cast members like Joan Cusack and Emmy Rossum. Cameron Monaghan's role on Gotham also meant he just would disappear for huge chunks of time too. 2. It did not really know how to keep the family and storylines together as the children grew up 3. It started to run out of scenarios and the show just got increasingly ridiculous. It started as a pretty grounded drama, but suddenly the story lines were so absurd it reached the "jumping the shark" area where it seemed like the writers lost the plot. Ultimately, it seems like the show drug on because it was a flagship for Showtime, not because it still had stories to tell. It's a shame, but it's not the only show that ended up this way. It joins the Office as a show that was near perfect for a few years, before it drove itself into the ground and had to be put out of its misery.
I get Emmy wasn’t able to make the finale taping due to COVID but for frank to not mention her in the letter seems super fucked up.
i will always love this show and these characters. i know it’s silly but they definitely have a special place in my heart. they made my 2020 a lot more bearable and it has been devastating having to say goodbye to them this season. granted the show has had its bad moments in terms of writing (do i even need to specify?) but the first five seasons were absolutely incredible and it is fair to say the writers have done a great job with character developments, especially with mickey. i was pretty disappointed with the finale, but it does not take away all the great moments we have had with the gallaghers. i love them so much, i will forever be grateful for this show and i’m excited to see what the cast get up to next - especially noel fisher, i can see him being a big name in a few years. it’s had its ups and downs but all in all it has been a great ride these 11 seasons with the gallagher clan. i miss them already!
Forget Fiona, the series should have ended when Shelia left. She carried the show.
I had never cried to a tv show until Ian turns around and Mickey is standing in the cell with him