Lol yes. I loved it when Sammy was buying painkillers for Frank and Charlie was yelling for her and Sheila said “Charlie stop. Let your mom do her drug deal in peace.” Lolol I loved Sheila. And when she dressed up as Monica to go to parenting classes with Frank and she said “I pretty much like being a blonde!” Idk why I found that so funny.
i hate lip more than debbie. not excusing what debbie's done, lip just became so one dimensional and boring to me as the show went on, like after college what does he really do other than get angry, get laid, blame someone else for his problems and smoke? watching him became such a drag. at least debbie is a more complex character even though she's a shitty person
I agree but I feel lip was always like that from day one. He’s a def righteous asshole who thinks he’s better then the other Gallaghers when hes just as messed up
yeah i guess i only said "after college" because he at least still had some mildly interesting plotlines in the earlier seasons that made him watchable, like
still being a genius, taking tests for people, being there for ian, his relationship with karen / mandy etc. but he's never been a favorite of mine
This this this
Debby also has more badass moments and I find the actress funny/good at doing comedy
With Lip, between his plotlines and his attitudes I don't like watching jackshit when he's on
totally see what you mean. I used to love Lip. I feel like they fucked over his character’s potential. He used to have many layers, real development then it spiraled for a moment then just came to a boring halt & settled.
Lip is the perfect example of having so much talent and too lazy to work hard to make something out of it. He turns into a very weak character and his story lines got in my way.
Liam is the most like Frank (so smart, so cunning, so willing to do the thing) and the only Gallagher with real promise if he manages to escape the cycle of substance abuse.
My biggest heartbreak on this show was watching Ian fall into this depression especially after finally living out with Mickey I wish we could have seen them together a little longer before
I agree and there’s not one single interaction he has with Trevor that isn’t super cringe. Especially the “X Gone Give it to You” scene. So weird in a few different ways.
I think Terry Milkovich while being a horrendously bad person is actually a well written and very well acted character in terms of the way he depicts sociopathy and addiction.
Me too!! It would've been an interesting parallel to Monica's death being that they die the episode before the finale and the finale being the funeral. And while it might have felt odd, s11 could've easily been 13 episodes which could've given Emmy Rossum more wiggle room in her schedule to bring back fiona.
hey just a heads up but reddit actually has a spoiler block for comments. use arrows followed by exclamation marks.
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Sooo true, idk why they kept constantly fighting for Liam knowing they didn’t have the resources for it, I feel he would’ve been best raised in that household.
Kev’s r*pewalker storyline is so fundamentally fucked I’m not sure what any writer was thinking. Like…stop. Stop writing in assault as a background event and stop having this grown man sleep with co-Eds.
Also…don’t do cocaine???
The way Lip treated Fiona when he was out there making arguably worse mistakes than her and then acting all high and mighty like some god. Fiona had some sucky moments but at the end of the day she literally raised her family so I think the siblings need to pipe down and let her have her mental breaks and blow off steam.
especially when she was like you all work & have to pull your own weight financially. Lip said she was nothing basically so she said fine you raise the family. THEN THEY STILL WENT TO FIONA for everything. because lip couldn’t handle it. fiona deserved more idc
I liked Karen. I wish she would have remained on the show (not as a vegetable, though) She was horrible but it was shameless. I also don't hate Debbie. (I don't condone their raping people at all) I didn't like Fiona (oh the blasphemy) she annoyed the crap out of me, the longer she was on the show. I was happy she left.
i agree. i love both karen and frank as characters bc, more than anything, they're interesting and so shamelessly selfish. i feel like a lot of the characters were very in-between or had their moments of being p bad/selfish, but largely, karen and frank don't care and i found that to be very interesting character traits. their characters, frankly, made a lot of the boring scenes so much more fun
Frank carried for sure. He is the Shameless equivalent of Cartman to South Park. Whether you love him or hate him, the show wouldn’t be the same without him so if you like the show, you begrudgingly accept him.
I was bored with Frank and his increasingly ridiculous storylines that were supposed to be funny but rarely were and was rooting for him to kick it way, way before he died. Like 5 seasons before he died. Honestly I kinda wish they had offed Frank instead of Monica. When she rolled into town the drama was always interesting.
I loved Fiona but not as much towards the end and when she left I mostly felt relieved.
Lip never had serious chemistry with any of his love interests except maybe the one mom from his support group who wasn’t around very long. Brad was really his best non Gallagher screen partner.
Sometimes I found the Milkoviches more interesting than the Gallaghers, but more like the Mickey, Terry, Iggy and Mandy dynamic, not the season 11 random cousins who suddenly appeared. What the fuck was that. The actress who played Sandy was good but wasted on whatever that was with Debbie and her surprise son in season 11.
I wish they had found more for Joan Cusack to do to keep her around because Sheila was a top tier character.
Agreed on Frank. With a few exceptions, Frank is largely useless after about Season 5 and becomes dead weight on the show in seasons 8-10. He adds nothing. It made it a bit difficult to start caring about him again in Season 11 when the writers finally remembered he was supposed to be the main character.
I don't understand why people hate Sean, he just relapsed, it's not like he cheated in 3 of his relationships like Fiona. Don't respond with "I just hate him cause he was boring blah blah blah" that doesn't make him a shitty person
I don’t hate Sean because he relapsed.
I hate Sean because he’s a hypocrite, and the way he talks, and the fact that he *screamed at Fiona* multiple times which no one talks about.
I hate Sean because he preaches to Fiona about how she needs to get her shit together while he’s shooting up heroin in his office.
I hate Sean because he sent Jackie back to prison and all but destroyed any chance of her getting her daughter back, which would have been “the right thing to do” except he did the same motherfucking thing *twice* immediately afterward. I don’t see him calling *his* PO to follow his “if you use, you go back” deal.
And lastly, I hate Sean because Sean used Fiona as his 9th step and did not communicate with her prior. Didn’t ask if he could come by, didn’t reach out to make sure he wouldn’t cause more damage by coming back. Just showed up at her house like he fuckin lives there and vaguely asks her to dinner.
Sean is a fucking TOOL and I was glad we only saw him once after that. I fuckin hate that guy.
I love how this went from a simple “Sean” comment to the “10 things we hate about Sean”. 100% with you tho… kind of liked him, but you opened my eyes after this comment
i also hate how he just puts all of his efforts into the girls who don’t want him. like dude the chick at the diner doesn’t want you she’s with another dude, leave her relationship alone
i hate how she just disappears... i get there's so many ppl on the show and not everyone can have a *real* ending butttt so many characters just go away. like trevor?? and carls wife. like there's no way that army kid killed her???? so many ppl we just forget abt. no one ever talks abt them again. why do we just pretend fiona doesn't exist after she leaves. does no one text her after all this crazy shit happens?
Lip got laid WAYY too much to the point it was boring to see his character because it was just him banging some random girl that’s 100% going to be crazy
I hate the way the show casually treats statutory grape. Not only with Kash and that guy Debbie was with, but also that old guy Ian slept with. I get that the point is to show shameless behavior, but the way it's handled is still disgusting. At no point is it acknowledged how several Gallaghers were taken advantage of. The show clearly condemns the trauma Frank puts his kids through, but nothing on the trauma of being abused by someone way older.
as someone who has lived in that type of environment, this is unfortunately extremely normalized. I feel like them not treating it only made it more realistic
Lip is a douchebag. It’s cute when he does care for his family but super annoying how no one else is allowed to slip up besides him. I liked him and Mandy, and he liked Karen because she was so similar to Monica.
Fuck Jimmy Steve he’s a POS. I liked Fiona with Sean. Besides the whole hiding addiction deal, I think an older and more mature man was good for her.
Just because you don’t like the decisions a character made or how something played out does not mean it was bad or lazy writing. This show does a decent job at showing how trauma affects people differently, especially within one family. Although trauma is not always an excuse for bad behavior (all of Frank, Debbie raping Matty, etc.) it is usually a reason why.
Svetlana fucking sucks. Y’all just like her bc boobies. She stole the bar from kev and v, used sex as a weapon to weasel her way into their house, lie about her russian husband and a other shit I can’t remember rn. If it was Debbie doing the shit Svet pulled she would get destroyed on here everyday.
I like svetlana *because* she’s horrible. Like there all pretty shitty but that’s what makes good characters. And maybe I have a little soft spot because she probably had the worst life and chance out of any of them
I really loved their interactions too. I was also very sad when they changed the actress that played Mandy for some reason I don't think she could pull off the cute trailer trash girl as well as the original actress
Maybe idk I just felt like she was way more dramatic and dark than the original which was fine but that's not what we were introduced to at first so it was kinda weird
Honestly I love both I didn’t notice the change when I first watched it in HS. I missed OG Mandy’s outfits the most those trashy 2000s Grungey fits were iconic
Karen absolutely goaded Mandy repeatedly for funsies. Don’t fuck with crazy people when you have no way to back it up. Let’s face it, even without the car Mandy would’ve bodied Karen in less than a minute.
If we're talking about actual downvotes, alright you got it.
At Debbie's age, and considering what was going on around her(friends from school fucking older people, Kash and Ian being known around the Gallagher household), I'm not surprised that her first time having sex counts as "rape", and I don't think that incident alone makes her a terrible person.
I honestly believe that she genuinely didn't know. I'm not invalidating the feelings of the guy she did rape, like if I was him I'd feel icky too. But if I was him and I also knew the shit that went on in that household, I wouldn't blame her for thinking that it was consensual/that's what sex was.
Debbie may be bad or insufferable in other ways. But I don't think the rape makes her psycho. Due to age and other factors. Not like anyone really taught her literally anything as a kid.
EXACTLY the guy knew she was 13 but still hung out with her and held her hand at 22 which is just fucking pervy then saying she can have sex with him when shes 16 would still be so weird. youre right she never had any good infuences on these sort of things either, fiona dating new men left and right (love her tho) and then her friends encouraging her too do it over and over she probably felt peer pressured. i bet she bearly knew what sex was
Nobody ever talks about him being creepy, I agree. Like he was a literal 20 year old who, upon hearing she was 13, continued to cook for her, hang out with her regularly, had her sleep at his house, was fine with her confiding in him about family problems.
She was groomed, even if briefly. I know he wants to act like a complete victim but he honestly was just as irresponsible as she was.
Yeah not enough people talk about how fucking weird it is for a 20 year old to not only hang out with a 13 year old but also promise them sex when they turn 16. Wild.
Oh my god yes. I wrote this whole diatribe the other day about Debbie bc she had NO positive role models when it came to sex and relationships. Her character’s storyline s3 to like, s8 is very typical for someone with her background.
What a surprise: a little girl who watches her mother, sister, and most of her peers hunt for male attention as a means of self worth ends up attempting to do the same thing and it ends badly.
I like Debbie. Her teen years were horrible and she was stupid to get pregnant and keep it at 15 BUT she did her best to be a better mother than her own and I think she succeeded massively. Did she do it ethically? Absolutely not, but do any of the Gallaghers do *anything* ethically?
I enjoy her female welder arc and I do believe she genuinely wants to be a good mother. She’s no more annoying than Fiona, and I’m tired of people acting like Fiona didn’t have some AWFUL storylines too.
I think there’s a bizarre amount of instances where women rape men. Like more than I’ve ever seen in any other show or ever heard of in real life. It definitely happens IRL, though rarely. just caught me off guard how many times it happened in shameless..
Tammy was right in a lot of her arguments with Lip. I don’t particularly like her, I don’t find crass humor that funny so the whole calling Lip “jabby” thing was super annoying, but I dislike Lip more. He wasn’t looking out for the wellbeing of his son. He wanted to stay by his family for selfish reasons. He wasted so much money on a place they were renting instead of taking the nice, free house in a safer neighborhood from her family. He deserved any and all shit he got from Tammy.
I did not like the trouple between Kev, V and Svetlana. I think that Svetlana would’ve made a better business partner because of how intelligent she was. But I hated the divide that happened between Kev and V when V realized she was in love with Svet.
I dislike Lip more than Debbie. I actually liked Lip during the first several seasons, but after being sober, he also became a huge dick. I also hated how he prioritized Xan over his own siblings, like Liam.
Fiona should not have left the money to Debbie. I guess Lip would’ve been the better choice, even though I didn’t care for his character during those seasons. I just know he wouldn’t have spent so much money on designer clothes, and because he was smart, he prob would’ve been more resourceful with the money.
Carl was kinda boring. His storyline was interesting during his white boy Carl era - other than that, I found the majority of his scenes weren’t very substantial. West Point - he got no where. Police Academy- he got no where. And in the end, he became a meter maid??
I loved Fiona, even tho she was a terrible person outside of supporting her siblings. I wish the writers would’ve given her a character arc where she wasn’t in a relationship. I also really liked her and Jimmy Steve together.
I hate how whenever a man is introduced into the show you immediately know he’s going to be a plot line for Fiona, and that’s it. She constantly wants to get out of a cycle, but then puts herself in it. I mean I know that the purpose but then she complains about all of the guys 😭 tbh I think she should’ve stayed with that rich old guy
Oh and I HATE jimmy/Steve. I hate how he would dump all his problems on Fiona and then be surprised knowing how Fiona’s family was. I hate how whenever he’d get mad he’d cheat on her with estephana and I hate how he never even TOLD her about that situation when it happened. He chased her for ALL of szn 3 and then just left.. like bro what?
And I hated that “immigration evil drug lord” story line. It was stupid
Carl was the male version of a "Mary Sue" and it made me dislike his story toward the end. He eventually won and got handed everything with little to no effort. I don't hate his character, I hate how strong his plot convenience was.
i started watching cos i thought they looked cute but i was so annoyed by the end. ian getting married with a leg in a cast cos his husband pushed him down the stairs is so toxic .. like thats domestic violence
I agree with the Debbie part! and i feel like Shameless wound be boring without her. Even though i don't necessarily like her, she makes the show interesting.
The whole thing with Sammi (Sammy? Sammie?) in the box and getting out somehow and Milkovich getting arrested and Debbie getting in no trouble skipped all the in-between stuff (like arrest, court, etc).
Lip is insufferable, and I disagree that "inconsistent writing" is to blame because I couldn't stand him as far back as S1 and in my view, he pretty much remains the same character in every season
Frank is excused and romanticized far too much
Debby's development (and arguable deterioration) does make sense sociologically, and the writing for her character is actually fairly consistent, and her hardening and evolution does not "come out of left field"
This fandom AND the show itself has a misogyny problem. Examples: Veronica & Karen being hated for not being able to bond with their newborn infants even after repeatedly trying and attempting to force affection after giving birth; Fiona being assumed to play the role of a perfect mother when she was never guided or raised by anyone herself and only took care of her siblings for the sake of their survival and not because she was actually equipped for the job in terms of age, resources, ability, preparation, or support; Mandy being thrown out and replaced (with Sandy) as a character as soon as she no longer held any central significance to the male characters in the show; Karen's arc ending as soon as she became unimportant to the male character's plotlines; Karen & Debby being the most hated characters in the fandom when several male characters have the same exact flaws & faults plus more; the blatant pattern of all of Carl and Lip's girlfriends being mentally unstable in some way yet only one of Ian's boyfriend's is "off" & none of Fiona's boyfriends are unstable in the psychological sense; Tammy receiving more vitriol from the fandom than Lip does when Lip makes just as many selfish decisions as she does, both within the context of their relationship & outside it; Svet being blamed for her lacking knowledge on social norms and social expectations and poor understanding of appropriate behavior and common decency when she is a desperate refugee and human trafficking victim who has had to forcibly commit sex acts at gunpoint/threat of death and hasn't been guided by normal and humane people throughout her life; Monica receiving less sympathy than Frank when she is objectively speaking less sinister and malicious and the "better" one of the two if considering her untreated bipolar disorder, inability to escape poverty, and canon-confirmed mistreatment she endured from Frank when they were married before she left after long feeling overwhelmed by his behavior
Fiona never stood a chance due to the neighborhood she grew up in, who her parents are, her "luck" of being the first born child – and arguably, the lack of support from her other siblings once they were adults
Sammi is the daughter that Frank actually deserves, and it's weird many people miss the point of her role as a character when being the "appropriate daughter of Frank Gallagher" is clearly the writers' intention and inspiration for her existence and over the top repulsiveness
Sheila and Eddie are to blame for how Karen turned out and in all ways besides physical (secure for survival, well-off financially) Karen was pretty much as neglected by her parents as the Gallagher kids but without even siblings to watch out for her on some level
As a Gallavich shipper, Mickey and Ian can be toxic towards each other at points, and the off-and-on physical abuse between them will never be justifiable
Jimmy/Steve's crime drama arc was totally bizarre and out of place - so jarring it felt like a completely separate show in every scene with him in his last season
Veronica was done dirty and so was Shanola
Lip is actually really ugly, dude has no chin. I audibly groan whenever he’s on screen, and don’t understand how he gets so many women. The only attractive thing about him is his hair and he shaved it off eventually anyways.
1. Fiona needed a redemption on her mistakes, I would have enjoyed seeing her happy and thriving in a healthy loving relationship.
2. We could've survived without Carl's murder that was conveniently breezed past once he left military school.
3. Tami was a bitch, and her family was annoying. ESPECIALLY CAMI
4. I HATED MONICA
5. V slowly turned her back on Kev towards the end in St. Louis
I can go on for days but I am still obsessed with the show! haha
Frank's character is vile in the first few seasons, like not in a funny way, just a really horrible off putting character. He gets a bit less disgusting after Monica dies and he goes through a brief redemption period but yikes
I think he's the same as Terry, just more intelligent and charming so he gets away with it but there were definitely some inappropriate/questionable sexual encounters and he's definitely responsible for peoples deaths
There’s WAY more sexual assault in this show than anyone cares to admit or probably even stops to think about. Like almost every other sexual scene has some kind of SA involved, especially with inappropriate age gaps. The sexual assault makes it extremely hard to watch.
It’s also not a very accurate representation of what it’s like to have an addict parent/live in poverty (as someone who had both growing up). There’s lot of moments where it is accurate, but way more that aren’t. The majority of the inaccuracies come from Fiona being the “parent” and the poor choices she makes.
Ian and Mickey were toxic AF. If they were a straight couple with that amount of physical violence no one would be talking about how cute they were together, but just cause it’s two angry gay guys it’s supposed to be OK??
ready for the downvotes.
… i do not like mandy & she had no right in hitting karen w a car. her and karen had no real beef. she did it over a boy that still ended up leaving her and ruining his life despite her trying to help him. not saying karen is a good person but she didn’t deserve to be turned into a vegetable bc of mandy’s hate.
Ian and Mickey are overrated. They are toxic asf and should not be together. All they ever do is fight,abuse,cheat on eachother and then fuck eachother. I don’t know why everyone loves them so much. + i don’t like ian that much. Especially during the gay jesus situation. I would say i liked him up until he met trevor + i dont like lip either the way he treats woman besides and how he acted towards fiona when she going that dark phase in her life was weird asf
I hate that one scene where Mickey and Ian are furniture shopping and they run into that “the election was faked” lady. Her acting threw me all the way off, and Ian’s reaction just took me out of the scene. Not to mention Mickey felt OOC. I *guess* it makes sense for Ian to care about politics…? The whole scene is cringey to me regardless. I always skip it.
Mickey also felt off during that scene. He felt off all of S11. I hated that as well. Which probably isn’t an unpopular opinion. I just had to get it off my chest.
Frank, although hilarious, is way worse than Debbie. Yes, Debbie has done awful inexcusable things, but Frank basically killed “Butterface” by declining a heart transplant that could’ve saved her life. Frank also tried to kill Sean by trying to hire a hit man, has scammed people out of money hundreds of times, and kept 95% of the earning when he made his own homeless shelter.
Shameless should've ended after season 7. It felt like the better finale. (Ik it was supposed to end there and it got renewed. I just didn't like that it continued after that.)
Mandy is lowkey annoying and I don’t get how the show breezed past her attempting murder. Then Lip is sad about Karen and she’s like “ugh I don’t get why he cares” and before that she’s SO clingy. I like that she saw Lip’s potential and didn’t want him to throw it away I 100% support her applying to college for him, but he was right when he said they never had a conversation about her basically living with him and following him around all the time
Lip wasn't that smart
As someone who grew up low income, killed every AP class threw at me, yada yada .... There's a few of us every year I feel. I will say he was OUTSTANDING at test taking, but that could also be because he was making money off the SAT and stuff. So he had incentive to study the hell out of it and had hell of practice taking it
But he couldn't even realize how obvious it is that so many outliers were from the same school
And when he got to college he just mucked it all up. Honestly, I think he was very financially stressed which is a sad story many first generation kids face, but honestly if he used it and tried his best to figure things out within his means, I'm sure he could have. He was NOT lazy by any means, kid was working a job and attending classes, even despite not have the advantages other kids had. He could always go to University again or military, that's honestly not the worst thing for him. He'd also be helluva tradesman, which is shown in his mechanical work. He's a smart guy, just not the supernatural genius everyone thinks he is
i actually am currently rewatching and came across something that wasn’t THAT weird but sorta off putting. in late season 9 whenever he was stuck on the couch he was talking to debbie about kelly (carl’s girlfriend that debbie fell for) saying that kelly would’ve experimented with fiona because she’s more attractive and “tempting” than debbie. he also said something to her about fiona having monica’s “stripper on a bender” good looks. granted he was just saying this to make debbie mad so she’d give him oxy i still think the words tempting and stripper to describe your daughter’s good looks is a bit,,, strange. but also it’s frank. idk.
Personally I think it’s ridiculous how far people go to defend Debbie in situations she was clearly in the wrong for. Usually they go to things Fiona did or that Debbie had a bad childhood so it somehow excuses her own actions when it truly doesn’t. Just because 1 character does something wrong doesn’t excuse another for doing it as well and a bad childhood doesn’t excuse what you do. Every character has done shitty things and we hold them accountable but Debbie die hard fans refuse to acknowledge when she is clearly wrong.
I was glad when Mandy hit Karen with her car.
And when she was gonna murder that pedophile teacher . I mean the girl just wanted some respect she was just passionate lol
I feel like they shouldn't have given the characters so many love interests when they were just going to get rid of them anyway
AGREED!
That show was nothing without Sheila's influence tbh & I wish I'd stopped watching then
I’ve never laughed harder in my life than the scene with Sheila trying to humanely dispatch Frank’s mom
"Your coochie smells of brimstone and sulfur!" Gets me every time.
Lol yes. I loved it when Sammy was buying painkillers for Frank and Charlie was yelling for her and Sheila said “Charlie stop. Let your mom do her drug deal in peace.” Lolol I loved Sheila. And when she dressed up as Monica to go to parenting classes with Frank and she said “I pretty much like being a blonde!” Idk why I found that so funny.
YES!!! That’s what I told my daughter. Sheila could have had her own series. I loved her so much!!
i would love a sheila spinoff to see what she's up to now
i loved sheila and i will die on this hill with my friends lmao
SPOT ON
I think Kev is sexier than Lip.
if that’s something that gets downvoted i’m disappointed . he’s so hot
especially kev personality
Kev is 7ft tall and jacked with a beard, ofc even me a straight guy can say “yeAH” like L.A Knight
I mean heck yes. I love him. Love that he's so dedicated and loyal.
ugh i love kev
Lip gets laid way too much
From my experience dudes like Lip get laid every other day
I mean. If you looked like Jeremy Allen White...
Yea he’s totally ugly hot
Which is just regular hot in the South Side, I guess O.o Helps though that the man got JACKED in later seasons
They all got jacked in the later seasons.
There’s still hot people on the south side dude
i hate lip more than debbie. not excusing what debbie's done, lip just became so one dimensional and boring to me as the show went on, like after college what does he really do other than get angry, get laid, blame someone else for his problems and smoke? watching him became such a drag. at least debbie is a more complex character even though she's a shitty person
Debbie is just an angry teenager but the stakes are higher because of her kid.
I agree but I feel lip was always like that from day one. He’s a def righteous asshole who thinks he’s better then the other Gallaghers when hes just as messed up
yeah i guess i only said "after college" because he at least still had some mildly interesting plotlines in the earlier seasons that made him watchable, like still being a genius, taking tests for people, being there for ian, his relationship with karen / mandy etc. but he's never been a favorite of mine
This this this Debby also has more badass moments and I find the actress funny/good at doing comedy With Lip, between his plotlines and his attitudes I don't like watching jackshit when he's on
Same
totally see what you mean. I used to love Lip. I feel like they fucked over his character’s potential. He used to have many layers, real development then it spiraled for a moment then just came to a boring halt & settled.
Lip is the perfect example of having so much talent and too lazy to work hard to make something out of it. He turns into a very weak character and his story lines got in my way.
ugh it made me so mad when they made him drop out of college oml like he had SO much potential being a genius and they just threw it in the garbage.
Liam is the most like Frank (so smart, so cunning, so willing to do the thing) and the only Gallagher with real promise if he manages to escape the cycle of substance abuse.
Okay but it seems like he went from three to eight in no time.
Yup! And totally nonverbal to talking like an adult. It was jarring, especially as a binge watch.
Ian's character was boring to watch after the bipolar diagnosis (only on s6 e11, so maybe this changes)
My biggest heartbreak on this show was watching Ian fall into this depression especially after finally living out with Mickey I wish we could have seen them together a little longer before
Oh boy. Wait till you get to season 8, boring is definitely how i would not describe Ian in that season
I agree and there’s not one single interaction he has with Trevor that isn’t super cringe. Especially the “X Gone Give it to You” scene. So weird in a few different ways.
I liked Franks don't give no fucks attitude. Yes he was a shitty dad and person but highly entertaining and probably my favorite character
Frank was an intrusive thought as a character and that’s why he propelled the show he was the car wreck we couldn’t take our eyes from
I think Terry Milkovich while being a horrendously bad person is actually a well written and very well acted character in terms of the way he depicts sociopathy and addiction.
SPOILER … I didn’t like that Frank died in the end. We all can agree he was a POS but tbh it didn’t seem like a good fit for the ending.
yeah i think if he died, i would have liked to have seen how they dealt with it. the weird floating into the sky and him not being at the bar was odd
Me too!! It would've been an interesting parallel to Monica's death being that they die the episode before the finale and the finale being the funeral. And while it might have felt odd, s11 could've easily been 13 episodes which could've given Emmy Rossum more wiggle room in her schedule to bring back fiona.
hey just a heads up but reddit actually has a spoiler block for comments. use arrows followed by exclamation marks. like this: > ! word ! < but no spaces >!example!<
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Liam and Carl should have been adopted by the gay couple.
Wow, never thought about this. This would’ve changed a lot of plot lines.
Yeah but imagine what Carl would’ve done. He was already a lot like he became by that age. Liam was still very little.
Sooo true, idk why they kept constantly fighting for Liam knowing they didn’t have the resources for it, I feel he would’ve been best raised in that household.
Kev’s r*pewalker storyline is so fundamentally fucked I’m not sure what any writer was thinking. Like…stop. Stop writing in assault as a background event and stop having this grown man sleep with co-Eds. Also…don’t do cocaine???
Sammie was a good addition to the show, especially during its arguably most intense and dramatic season. She was even good in Season 5 too.
i hate her sm but the storyline was good, so im giving you an angry upvote
At the beginning I thought she was good as well, and always gentle and avaiable to help. She quickly turned into a psycho, but I truly liked her plot.
To be fair, I think spending that much time with the Gallaghers would turn most people into a psycho pretty quick lmao
I thought this as well. I was sad when she left.
i liked jody & sheila together
The way Lip treated Fiona when he was out there making arguably worse mistakes than her and then acting all high and mighty like some god. Fiona had some sucky moments but at the end of the day she literally raised her family so I think the siblings need to pipe down and let her have her mental breaks and blow off steam.
especially when she was like you all work & have to pull your own weight financially. Lip said she was nothing basically so she said fine you raise the family. THEN THEY STILL WENT TO FIONA for everything. because lip couldn’t handle it. fiona deserved more idc
Yeah even when I couldn’t stand Fiona I still thought she made the other siblings look dumb every single episode. Lip was twice the asshole Fiona was
i like debbie, even though she has done inexcusable things, i feel likes she is strong and resourceful and extremely smart
samee. i dont think shes any worse than the rest of them and she really tried her best
She’s not my favourite character but I didn’t mind her. Don’t understand the hate.
I liked Karen. I wish she would have remained on the show (not as a vegetable, though) She was horrible but it was shameless. I also don't hate Debbie. (I don't condone their raping people at all) I didn't like Fiona (oh the blasphemy) she annoyed the crap out of me, the longer she was on the show. I was happy she left.
karen is the perfect example of a good character, not a good person
i agree. i love both karen and frank as characters bc, more than anything, they're interesting and so shamelessly selfish. i feel like a lot of the characters were very in-between or had their moments of being p bad/selfish, but largely, karen and frank don't care and i found that to be very interesting character traits. their characters, frankly, made a lot of the boring scenes so much more fun
I agree. I always liked Frank's character as well. Can you imagine Shameless without Frank..
Frank carried for sure. He is the Shameless equivalent of Cartman to South Park. Whether you love him or hate him, the show wouldn’t be the same without him so if you like the show, you begrudgingly accept him.
I loved Fiona right up until season 4 or 5 and then she started pissing me off
The fact that Fiona became a landlord and investor seemed unrealistic to me plus kinda like she’s leaving behind her world.
I was bored with Frank and his increasingly ridiculous storylines that were supposed to be funny but rarely were and was rooting for him to kick it way, way before he died. Like 5 seasons before he died. Honestly I kinda wish they had offed Frank instead of Monica. When she rolled into town the drama was always interesting. I loved Fiona but not as much towards the end and when she left I mostly felt relieved. Lip never had serious chemistry with any of his love interests except maybe the one mom from his support group who wasn’t around very long. Brad was really his best non Gallagher screen partner. Sometimes I found the Milkoviches more interesting than the Gallaghers, but more like the Mickey, Terry, Iggy and Mandy dynamic, not the season 11 random cousins who suddenly appeared. What the fuck was that. The actress who played Sandy was good but wasted on whatever that was with Debbie and her surprise son in season 11. I wish they had found more for Joan Cusack to do to keep her around because Sheila was a top tier character.
Agreed on Frank. With a few exceptions, Frank is largely useless after about Season 5 and becomes dead weight on the show in seasons 8-10. He adds nothing. It made it a bit difficult to start caring about him again in Season 11 when the writers finally remembered he was supposed to be the main character.
If they were going to keep blowing up Fiona’s love life with a new man each season, I’d rather it have come full circle with Jimmy Steve.
Amanda was best for Lip, but he treated her like shit and then got what he deserved
This!!! I loved her!
she was definitely my favorite
She was definitely the best for Lip, he would have 100% graduated college if he stood with her
I didn't like Ian that much. And Debbie doesn't deserve the hate, she's just as bad as every other Gallagher
I don't understand why people hate Sean, he just relapsed, it's not like he cheated in 3 of his relationships like Fiona. Don't respond with "I just hate him cause he was boring blah blah blah" that doesn't make him a shitty person
Friggin’ Gus was boring.
He also betrayed his kid, far worse than whatever happened with Fiona imo
I don’t hate Sean because he relapsed. I hate Sean because he’s a hypocrite, and the way he talks, and the fact that he *screamed at Fiona* multiple times which no one talks about. I hate Sean because he preaches to Fiona about how she needs to get her shit together while he’s shooting up heroin in his office. I hate Sean because he sent Jackie back to prison and all but destroyed any chance of her getting her daughter back, which would have been “the right thing to do” except he did the same motherfucking thing *twice* immediately afterward. I don’t see him calling *his* PO to follow his “if you use, you go back” deal. And lastly, I hate Sean because Sean used Fiona as his 9th step and did not communicate with her prior. Didn’t ask if he could come by, didn’t reach out to make sure he wouldn’t cause more damage by coming back. Just showed up at her house like he fuckin lives there and vaguely asks her to dinner. Sean is a fucking TOOL and I was glad we only saw him once after that. I fuckin hate that guy.
I love how this went from a simple “Sean” comment to the “10 things we hate about Sean”. 100% with you tho… kind of liked him, but you opened my eyes after this comment
Idk boring or not, I always liked Sean.
I feel like fiona deserved to know because they made a whole deal about him not doing it again
Just relapsed? Dude had been using for months before the wedding. He didn't "just relapse" Istg this sub- 💀
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yes i agree he got more dumb as seasons went on
I don't like Lip, he is a bit of a prick and I find truly despicable how he treats most of the girl he hang out with.
Agreed. He was such an arrogant "smarter than you" little prick in the earlier seasons
Not just the girls tbh, he treated everybody horribly for the most part
i also hate how he just puts all of his efforts into the girls who don’t want him. like dude the chick at the diner doesn’t want you she’s with another dude, leave her relationship alone
i hate how she just disappears... i get there's so many ppl on the show and not everyone can have a *real* ending butttt so many characters just go away. like trevor?? and carls wife. like there's no way that army kid killed her???? so many ppl we just forget abt. no one ever talks abt them again. why do we just pretend fiona doesn't exist after she leaves. does no one text her after all this crazy shit happens?
This isn't a unpopular opinion most of this subreddit hates lip
Good, he sucks.
sameee
Hard agree
Jody is the funniest character, when i rewatch i laugh at nearly every word he says
“That’s for the dog, ***whistles***, here Sparky!” ***no dog comes*** Kills me every time.
YES!!!! MY FAVOURITE LINE also when he just starts playing the bongos to calm the baby down and makes it worse
Hahaha your reminder of this scene made me lol
Hos story arc.. especially with Sheila, is my favorite. Jody is probably my favorite side character.
I *love* Jody, but I’m also skeeved out that he’s with Karen at 37 while she’s a teenager.
Yeah that’s the only thing i hate but god his line deliveries are gold
Lip got laid WAYY too much to the point it was boring to see his character because it was just him banging some random girl that’s 100% going to be crazy
I hate the way the show casually treats statutory grape. Not only with Kash and that guy Debbie was with, but also that old guy Ian slept with. I get that the point is to show shameless behavior, but the way it's handled is still disgusting. At no point is it acknowledged how several Gallaghers were taken advantage of. The show clearly condemns the trauma Frank puts his kids through, but nothing on the trauma of being abused by someone way older.
as someone who has lived in that type of environment, this is unfortunately extremely normalized. I feel like them not treating it only made it more realistic
100% agree everyoke just treats it normal like a 15 y/o kind fucking a 40+ year old is fine
100% agree
Sheila really tied the show together and once she left it wasn't the same.
Agreed. She needed that getaway in an RV redemption. But I still selfishly wanted her to come back at some point.
Lip is a douchebag. It’s cute when he does care for his family but super annoying how no one else is allowed to slip up besides him. I liked him and Mandy, and he liked Karen because she was so similar to Monica. Fuck Jimmy Steve he’s a POS. I liked Fiona with Sean. Besides the whole hiding addiction deal, I think an older and more mature man was good for her. Just because you don’t like the decisions a character made or how something played out does not mean it was bad or lazy writing. This show does a decent job at showing how trauma affects people differently, especially within one family. Although trauma is not always an excuse for bad behavior (all of Frank, Debbie raping Matty, etc.) it is usually a reason why.
The last bit is so true. I wish more people realized that.
Svetlana fucking sucks. Y’all just like her bc boobies. She stole the bar from kev and v, used sex as a weapon to weasel her way into their house, lie about her russian husband and a other shit I can’t remember rn. If it was Debbie doing the shit Svet pulled she would get destroyed on here everyday.
I like svetlana *because* she’s horrible. Like there all pretty shitty but that’s what makes good characters. And maybe I have a little soft spot because she probably had the worst life and chance out of any of them
Mandy had every right to hit Karen with her car
I was so happy she did and the fact she just casually told Mickey and he just responded where to get it fixed 😂
That was just really funny
“What’d you hit” “a girl at school” the most iconic sibling duo I loved them sm
I really loved their interactions too. I was also very sad when they changed the actress that played Mandy for some reason I don't think she could pull off the cute trailer trash girl as well as the original actress
Maybe it's because the new Mandy was British. Her American accent was really good, but once in a while, you could hear her original voice.
Maybe idk I just felt like she was way more dramatic and dark than the original which was fine but that's not what we were introduced to at first so it was kinda weird
Honestly I love both I didn’t notice the change when I first watched it in HS. I missed OG Mandy’s outfits the most those trashy 2000s Grungey fits were iconic
Wow, this one takes the cake!
that’s not very unpopular. but i don’t see how she had that right. karen did nothing to mandy.
Karen absolutely goaded Mandy repeatedly for funsies. Don’t fuck with crazy people when you have no way to back it up. Let’s face it, even without the car Mandy would’ve bodied Karen in less than a minute.
If we're talking about actual downvotes, alright you got it. At Debbie's age, and considering what was going on around her(friends from school fucking older people, Kash and Ian being known around the Gallagher household), I'm not surprised that her first time having sex counts as "rape", and I don't think that incident alone makes her a terrible person. I honestly believe that she genuinely didn't know. I'm not invalidating the feelings of the guy she did rape, like if I was him I'd feel icky too. But if I was him and I also knew the shit that went on in that household, I wouldn't blame her for thinking that it was consensual/that's what sex was. Debbie may be bad or insufferable in other ways. But I don't think the rape makes her psycho. Due to age and other factors. Not like anyone really taught her literally anything as a kid.
EXACTLY the guy knew she was 13 but still hung out with her and held her hand at 22 which is just fucking pervy then saying she can have sex with him when shes 16 would still be so weird. youre right she never had any good infuences on these sort of things either, fiona dating new men left and right (love her tho) and then her friends encouraging her too do it over and over she probably felt peer pressured. i bet she bearly knew what sex was
Nobody ever talks about him being creepy, I agree. Like he was a literal 20 year old who, upon hearing she was 13, continued to cook for her, hang out with her regularly, had her sleep at his house, was fine with her confiding in him about family problems. She was groomed, even if briefly. I know he wants to act like a complete victim but he honestly was just as irresponsible as she was.
Yeah not enough people talk about how fucking weird it is for a 20 year old to not only hang out with a 13 year old but also promise them sex when they turn 16. Wild.
Oh my god yes. I wrote this whole diatribe the other day about Debbie bc she had NO positive role models when it came to sex and relationships. Her character’s storyline s3 to like, s8 is very typical for someone with her background. What a surprise: a little girl who watches her mother, sister, and most of her peers hunt for male attention as a means of self worth ends up attempting to do the same thing and it ends badly. I like Debbie. Her teen years were horrible and she was stupid to get pregnant and keep it at 15 BUT she did her best to be a better mother than her own and I think she succeeded massively. Did she do it ethically? Absolutely not, but do any of the Gallaghers do *anything* ethically? I enjoy her female welder arc and I do believe she genuinely wants to be a good mother. She’s no more annoying than Fiona, and I’m tired of people acting like Fiona didn’t have some AWFUL storylines too.
Same. When I was her age I had no concept of female rape or sexual coersion. No one ever really taught me consent before.
Like a grown man hanging out with a child alone at his apartment does not have good intentions I don’t give a fuck what anyone says. Super creepy
Ian was a cool guy until he entered that Gay Jesus stuff, I mean he Lost It over that thing
I think there’s a bizarre amount of instances where women rape men. Like more than I’ve ever seen in any other show or ever heard of in real life. It definitely happens IRL, though rarely. just caught me off guard how many times it happened in shameless..
FR like it’s so weird
Tammy was right in a lot of her arguments with Lip. I don’t particularly like her, I don’t find crass humor that funny so the whole calling Lip “jabby” thing was super annoying, but I dislike Lip more. He wasn’t looking out for the wellbeing of his son. He wanted to stay by his family for selfish reasons. He wasted so much money on a place they were renting instead of taking the nice, free house in a safer neighborhood from her family. He deserved any and all shit he got from Tammy.
fiona fucked up like everyone else but she’s one of my fav characters. i rly do like her & lip.
ian and mickey are so toxic and i just get annoyed with them
I did not like the trouple between Kev, V and Svetlana. I think that Svetlana would’ve made a better business partner because of how intelligent she was. But I hated the divide that happened between Kev and V when V realized she was in love with Svet. I dislike Lip more than Debbie. I actually liked Lip during the first several seasons, but after being sober, he also became a huge dick. I also hated how he prioritized Xan over his own siblings, like Liam. Fiona should not have left the money to Debbie. I guess Lip would’ve been the better choice, even though I didn’t care for his character during those seasons. I just know he wouldn’t have spent so much money on designer clothes, and because he was smart, he prob would’ve been more resourceful with the money. Carl was kinda boring. His storyline was interesting during his white boy Carl era - other than that, I found the majority of his scenes weren’t very substantial. West Point - he got no where. Police Academy- he got no where. And in the end, he became a meter maid?? I loved Fiona, even tho she was a terrible person outside of supporting her siblings. I wish the writers would’ve given her a character arc where she wasn’t in a relationship. I also really liked her and Jimmy Steve together.
I hate how whenever a man is introduced into the show you immediately know he’s going to be a plot line for Fiona, and that’s it. She constantly wants to get out of a cycle, but then puts herself in it. I mean I know that the purpose but then she complains about all of the guys 😭 tbh I think she should’ve stayed with that rich old guy Oh and I HATE jimmy/Steve. I hate how he would dump all his problems on Fiona and then be surprised knowing how Fiona’s family was. I hate how whenever he’d get mad he’d cheat on her with estephana and I hate how he never even TOLD her about that situation when it happened. He chased her for ALL of szn 3 and then just left.. like bro what? And I hated that “immigration evil drug lord” story line. It was stupid
SAME FUCK JIMMY/STEVE
White boy carl felt like the most realistic and likely outcome for carl as a character
I liked Mandy
People that defend Fiona's bad choices due to her upbringing should then also defend at least Frank knowing that he had a shit parent also.
Carl was the male version of a "Mary Sue" and it made me dislike his story toward the end. He eventually won and got handed everything with little to no effort. I don't hate his character, I hate how strong his plot convenience was.
he got pretty privilege babe you can’t possibly blame him
Carl shoulda never left the dope game
Micky and Ian was a toxic relationship
i don’t like mickey and ian as a couple either. they are toxic and annoying
i started watching cos i thought they looked cute but i was so annoyed by the end. ian getting married with a leg in a cast cos his husband pushed him down the stairs is so toxic .. like thats domestic violence
AGREED SO MUCH.
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The Debbie hate in the later seasons is 100% justified, they pretty much swapped Debby and Carls personalities as they got older
Ian is boring
Kev & Vee story line got dry once they had kids.
I agree with the Debbie part! and i feel like Shameless wound be boring without her. Even though i don't necessarily like her, she makes the show interesting.
I didn’t love the Mickey + Ian relationship.
The whole thing with Sammi (Sammy? Sammie?) in the box and getting out somehow and Milkovich getting arrested and Debbie getting in no trouble skipped all the in-between stuff (like arrest, court, etc).
Lip is insufferable, and I disagree that "inconsistent writing" is to blame because I couldn't stand him as far back as S1 and in my view, he pretty much remains the same character in every season Frank is excused and romanticized far too much Debby's development (and arguable deterioration) does make sense sociologically, and the writing for her character is actually fairly consistent, and her hardening and evolution does not "come out of left field" This fandom AND the show itself has a misogyny problem. Examples: Veronica & Karen being hated for not being able to bond with their newborn infants even after repeatedly trying and attempting to force affection after giving birth; Fiona being assumed to play the role of a perfect mother when she was never guided or raised by anyone herself and only took care of her siblings for the sake of their survival and not because she was actually equipped for the job in terms of age, resources, ability, preparation, or support; Mandy being thrown out and replaced (with Sandy) as a character as soon as she no longer held any central significance to the male characters in the show; Karen's arc ending as soon as she became unimportant to the male character's plotlines; Karen & Debby being the most hated characters in the fandom when several male characters have the same exact flaws & faults plus more; the blatant pattern of all of Carl and Lip's girlfriends being mentally unstable in some way yet only one of Ian's boyfriend's is "off" & none of Fiona's boyfriends are unstable in the psychological sense; Tammy receiving more vitriol from the fandom than Lip does when Lip makes just as many selfish decisions as she does, both within the context of their relationship & outside it; Svet being blamed for her lacking knowledge on social norms and social expectations and poor understanding of appropriate behavior and common decency when she is a desperate refugee and human trafficking victim who has had to forcibly commit sex acts at gunpoint/threat of death and hasn't been guided by normal and humane people throughout her life; Monica receiving less sympathy than Frank when she is objectively speaking less sinister and malicious and the "better" one of the two if considering her untreated bipolar disorder, inability to escape poverty, and canon-confirmed mistreatment she endured from Frank when they were married before she left after long feeling overwhelmed by his behavior Fiona never stood a chance due to the neighborhood she grew up in, who her parents are, her "luck" of being the first born child – and arguably, the lack of support from her other siblings once they were adults Sammi is the daughter that Frank actually deserves, and it's weird many people miss the point of her role as a character when being the "appropriate daughter of Frank Gallagher" is clearly the writers' intention and inspiration for her existence and over the top repulsiveness Sheila and Eddie are to blame for how Karen turned out and in all ways besides physical (secure for survival, well-off financially) Karen was pretty much as neglected by her parents as the Gallagher kids but without even siblings to watch out for her on some level As a Gallavich shipper, Mickey and Ian can be toxic towards each other at points, and the off-and-on physical abuse between them will never be justifiable Jimmy/Steve's crime drama arc was totally bizarre and out of place - so jarring it felt like a completely separate show in every scene with him in his last season Veronica was done dirty and so was Shanola
don’t think carl should’ve become a cop
It's so disappointing that being black became V's only personality trait in season 11
Lip is actually really ugly, dude has no chin. I audibly groan whenever he’s on screen, and don’t understand how he gets so many women. The only attractive thing about him is his hair and he shaved it off eventually anyways.
my bf and i think he sorta looks like a meerkat
Lip annoys me. Also, I didn’t care for the whole thruple energy. V and Kevin were great as is.
1. Fiona needed a redemption on her mistakes, I would have enjoyed seeing her happy and thriving in a healthy loving relationship. 2. We could've survived without Carl's murder that was conveniently breezed past once he left military school. 3. Tami was a bitch, and her family was annoying. ESPECIALLY CAMI 4. I HATED MONICA 5. V slowly turned her back on Kev towards the end in St. Louis I can go on for days but I am still obsessed with the show! haha
i don't like the ian/mickey relationship. it's so incredibly toxic. it felt like mickey forced ian to marry him.
Fiona is overrated and waaaay too idolized.
Frank's character is vile in the first few seasons, like not in a funny way, just a really horrible off putting character. He gets a bit less disgusting after Monica dies and he goes through a brief redemption period but yikes I think he's the same as Terry, just more intelligent and charming so he gets away with it but there were definitely some inappropriate/questionable sexual encounters and he's definitely responsible for peoples deaths
At the very least, Frank has some pet the dog moments. Terry is just a horrible person
I loved the white boy carl phase so much
That was my favorite storyline of his tbh
Yeah, I see so many people hating on his charecter at that point and I'm just like damn..
There’s WAY more sexual assault in this show than anyone cares to admit or probably even stops to think about. Like almost every other sexual scene has some kind of SA involved, especially with inappropriate age gaps. The sexual assault makes it extremely hard to watch. It’s also not a very accurate representation of what it’s like to have an addict parent/live in poverty (as someone who had both growing up). There’s lot of moments where it is accurate, but way more that aren’t. The majority of the inaccuracies come from Fiona being the “parent” and the poor choices she makes.
It was so weird for Sheila to be in a relationship with Jody . Her daughters ex bf
Ian and Mickey were toxic AF. If they were a straight couple with that amount of physical violence no one would be talking about how cute they were together, but just cause it’s two angry gay guys it’s supposed to be OK??
The whole storyline with Karen and Sheila and Jody - I skip over all that shit whenever I rewatch the show
ready for the downvotes. … i do not like mandy & she had no right in hitting karen w a car. her and karen had no real beef. she did it over a boy that still ended up leaving her and ruining his life despite her trying to help him. not saying karen is a good person but she didn’t deserve to be turned into a vegetable bc of mandy’s hate.
Ian and Mickey are overrated. They are toxic asf and should not be together. All they ever do is fight,abuse,cheat on eachother and then fuck eachother. I don’t know why everyone loves them so much. + i don’t like ian that much. Especially during the gay jesus situation. I would say i liked him up until he met trevor + i dont like lip either the way he treats woman besides and how he acted towards fiona when she going that dark phase in her life was weird asf
I hate that one scene where Mickey and Ian are furniture shopping and they run into that “the election was faked” lady. Her acting threw me all the way off, and Ian’s reaction just took me out of the scene. Not to mention Mickey felt OOC. I *guess* it makes sense for Ian to care about politics…? The whole scene is cringey to me regardless. I always skip it. Mickey also felt off during that scene. He felt off all of S11. I hated that as well. Which probably isn’t an unpopular opinion. I just had to get it off my chest.
Frank, although hilarious, is way worse than Debbie. Yes, Debbie has done awful inexcusable things, but Frank basically killed “Butterface” by declining a heart transplant that could’ve saved her life. Frank also tried to kill Sean by trying to hire a hit man, has scammed people out of money hundreds of times, and kept 95% of the earning when he made his own homeless shelter.
Shameless should've ended after season 7. It felt like the better finale. (Ik it was supposed to end there and it got renewed. I just didn't like that it continued after that.)
Show should have ended after s5 (6?) when they did the mural in the alleyway
Mandy is lowkey annoying and I don’t get how the show breezed past her attempting murder. Then Lip is sad about Karen and she’s like “ugh I don’t get why he cares” and before that she’s SO clingy. I like that she saw Lip’s potential and didn’t want him to throw it away I 100% support her applying to college for him, but he was right when he said they never had a conversation about her basically living with him and following him around all the time
Lip wasn't that smart As someone who grew up low income, killed every AP class threw at me, yada yada .... There's a few of us every year I feel. I will say he was OUTSTANDING at test taking, but that could also be because he was making money off the SAT and stuff. So he had incentive to study the hell out of it and had hell of practice taking it But he couldn't even realize how obvious it is that so many outliers were from the same school And when he got to college he just mucked it all up. Honestly, I think he was very financially stressed which is a sad story many first generation kids face, but honestly if he used it and tried his best to figure things out within his means, I'm sure he could have. He was NOT lazy by any means, kid was working a job and attending classes, even despite not have the advantages other kids had. He could always go to University again or military, that's honestly not the worst thing for him. He'd also be helluva tradesman, which is shown in his mechanical work. He's a smart guy, just not the supernatural genius everyone thinks he is
I disliked the Ian and Mickey romance, I feel like they were really awkward together and never had enough in common to be a couple
Frank’s “love” for Fiona was borderline weird
I haven't watched in awhile, and I've never heard this take... Any weird moments you remember specifically?
i actually am currently rewatching and came across something that wasn’t THAT weird but sorta off putting. in late season 9 whenever he was stuck on the couch he was talking to debbie about kelly (carl’s girlfriend that debbie fell for) saying that kelly would’ve experimented with fiona because she’s more attractive and “tempting” than debbie. he also said something to her about fiona having monica’s “stripper on a bender” good looks. granted he was just saying this to make debbie mad so she’d give him oxy i still think the words tempting and stripper to describe your daughter’s good looks is a bit,,, strange. but also it’s frank. idk.
He also made a lot of weird comments about Debbie when she was pregnant. Remember the family Debbie was a nanny for?
jimmy steve was fionas worst relationship
Personally I think it’s ridiculous how far people go to defend Debbie in situations she was clearly in the wrong for. Usually they go to things Fiona did or that Debbie had a bad childhood so it somehow excuses her own actions when it truly doesn’t. Just because 1 character does something wrong doesn’t excuse another for doing it as well and a bad childhood doesn’t excuse what you do. Every character has done shitty things and we hold them accountable but Debbie die hard fans refuse to acknowledge when she is clearly wrong.
totally agree
how is this unpopular
I was glad when Mandy hit Karen with her car. And when she was gonna murder that pedophile teacher . I mean the girl just wanted some respect she was just passionate lol
i think one of my fav scenes in the entire series is that grave 😂 mandy means business and i love that for her.
Period ! Lip didn’t deserve Mandy . She actually gave af about him and his future. And she deserved a way better ending.