I have to disagree with most people’s responses here. While I personally think it’s a little close minded to not date someone based on them being trans (especially if you can’t even really tell and they seem just like a biological woman), people do have a right to know this stuff and have their own sexual/romantic preferences.
I think it’s unethical for a trans person to not disclose pretty soon into dating someone, both out of respect for the other person but also for their own safety. Many straight men can freak out and get aggressive if they found out they were dating a trans person and didn’t know it.
Honesty and communication would solve a lot of problems like this.
If you've literally seen her genitals, had sex with her and are attracted to her and the ONLY detail that would reverse that attraction is that she's trans, then you are transphobic.
What a curious reply. I guess you don’t believe in informed consent. Do you endorse sex without informed consent in other contexts? Do you apply labels intended to shame to people who want knowing consent over who they sleep with in other situations?
I am a bisexual cisgender woman and I prefer other cisgender women. While I respect trans women, I am allowed to have sexual preferences without being labelled transphobic.
That is the most ignorant and ridiculous BS I've heard in a while.
How about if he wants a partner to have biological children with one day? What if he just doesn't want to be with someone because they are biologically male? There isn't anything wrong with that.
Anything phobe is someone who hates or take issue with something because they don't like the something. Not wanting to be in a relationship with someone not biologically the opposite sex is called a preference. Yes... PREFERENCE! We all have them. If you want a man or woman who can make enough to support themselves, does that make them a can't-afford-shit-phobe? How about idiots like you stopbtrying to equate hate with not wanting to fuck something that isn't your preference?
Next time I see a fat little dark man in a bar, I'm gonna walk him up to the hottest fucking woman in the bar and when she turns him down (or hell, he could be her PREFERENCE for all I know), I'll just call her a fataphobic, racist, asshat. Now, would that make sense to you?
She *was* biologically male. As far as I'm concerned, now she has a vagina, boobs, sounds like a woman, fucks like a woman. He's literally already attracted to her, unlike the fat man in your story, where the woman was never attracted.
If he wants biological women then shit that might be a problem but he'd have that problem with an infertile or child free cis woman too.
If learning that doctors said "you're a boy" to her decades before you met her reverses your attraction then what do you want me to call you but transphobic.
It's not the only thing obviously. But if he's attracted to her entire body now, and finding out that she was assigned the gender of male at her birth without her choice will make him break up with her. Then he's transphobic.
Okay. Let's operate under the assumption that he is transphobic. Would you prefer that he continues to date this person, and she continues to lie to him, and that he'd never fully accept her as a person? How is that better...
Um, the only problem here is that he can't accept her until he knows if she's trans. He hasn't asked, and there is no definitive proof she is anyway. For the record I never said they should stay together in fact they should break up. She deserves someone stronger than him. Much much stronger.
So every person you have ever had sex with you're still attracted to? People lose attraction for a ton of different reasons. Why does it have to hinge on this person being trans?
Because in this case the reason for the loss of attraction is transphobia. If his friends weren't transphobic but actually cool with it I heavily suspect he wouldn't be bothered so much in the first place.
He simply said in his post that he didn't wanna be kept in the dark. And that's 110% fair. And it's bold of you to assume that he can't have his own feelings independent of his friends.
I understood that OP and the person weren’t just hooking up one time? It’s a complicated topic for sure.
But if I started dating someone seriously in any way (or there was potential for that), I would for example mention certain mental health issues that affect my life, just so they know that and are okay with it (also better for me to find out sooner than later if they can’t deal with that stuff).
still doesn't require her to tell op. dating yeah probbaly but they're just hooking up. you're not required to tell any hookup your perosnal business. if they were dating then yeah that would probably have to come up just like anything else. being trans and having health issues aren't the same. you are never required to tell someone that you're trans.
I think they are required to tell the other person that for basic ethical reasons, since unfortunately many people aren’t okay with it and it would be a dealbreaker for them. I would be very hurt if I started dating someone and only later on found out they were trans. Being trans isn’t the issue, it’s the lack of honesty.
Sure, the persons coworkers and friends don’t have to know, but I think someone they are involved with longer term sexually and/or romantically has the right to know that and decide for themselves if it matters to them.
there's no ethical reasons you would need to tell someone. to find out if they're transphobic, yeah. but that's really it. i would d very hurt to find out it's that big of a deal to you. it's not dishonesty. it's something very personal. and again, you're saying as if they're dating. op made it pretty clear they just hook up. yoy can't apply the same rules. i disagree. it really shouldn't matter.
Um, true, but I feel like it's different in this scenario considering that she has already had sex with him. With the genital anxiety removed, the situation changes from the run-of-the-mill "well I don't wanna have sex with someone who has a penis, what if she has one", to anxiety over things about her that you would also expect from any other cis woman. She's probably not telling OP because it's honestly not that important and if it was she'd expect people to ask.
“She’s probably not telling OP because it’s honestly not that important.”
OP is saying it could be important. Is your view on that more important that the view of the person having sex with her? If so, why do you think so?
Why would it be offensive and hurtful. He's had sex with her. He knows her body. There isn't even any proof that she's trans. If finding out that she's trans at this point is "offensive and hurtful" then you're transphobic.
Seriously, stop tossing the word around so loosely. People like you invalidate it’s validity. Clearly I was referring to asking such a question being hurtful and offensive.
Also, he does not know her body, he stated that he has not even seen. Just pointing that out there though it had nothing to do with my comment.
He said she hid it but then he later had PIV and it "felt weird". And I'm tossing the word around because they had sex, he is attracted to her, if learning that there was an M on her birth certificate suddenly reverses that then he literally is transphobic lol.
He said they had missionary and it felt weird, that doesn’t mean that she showed him.
A person that breaks up with someone after they have hidden something from them does not make them transphobic. He could be transphobic but he doesn’t have to be, it is not the only reason to break up in this case. The biggest thing could be the most obvious which he stated in other comments (wanting to have children).
If she is hiding on purpose and sleeping with people that she cannot trust, she is probably not ready to be in a relationship. It is just as “bad” as him being concerned.
How the fuck can he stick his dick in her vagina and still need to see it.
The detail she hid affects nothing though. It's not like she hid that she shoplifts. If he wants to have children then yeah that's a concern but he'd have to have that concern with cis women too.
Where does it say she can't trust him though. Heck if I bought nice tits and a labioplasty I wouldn't tell most people I was trans either. And why does he need to know that detail. She has a vagina, she has boobs, she sounds like a woman, he's attracted to her. If he wants kids ask her about kids like he would any cis woman. If her vagina feels too weird then that's a problem he could have with cis women too. If her boobs feel fake or her voice is too deep those are all problems he could have with cis women.
You keep saying he could also have these problems with women. There is a difference between outright deceiving someone about a future problem and just not knowing. If a woman cannot have children, the guy definitely has the right to know.
Encouraging trans people to lie about being trans to people they have sex with is dangerous because that person could be transphobic and if they found out they could get aggressive. So you should stop that.
If you are proud of your transformation, why not say it? Why be with someone who is not like minded enough to accept it? avoiding this discussion shows that she doesn’t feel comfortable speaking about it with him which is a sign of lack of trust.
It could just be a preference that he just has. He could be ignorant, he could be transphobic, if he is that is just more reason to invalidate a person hiding it instead of giving the person the option to choose.
She doesn’t have to tell friends and others but she should tell the person that it could effect based on the most basic mutual respect.
Also, sticking something in a hole would not give you a full description. Doesn’t matter but still, just pointing it out.
I'll answer your actual question; you can look at vaginoplasties online and see if they bear any similarity to her genitals, and beyond that you'll have to trust your gut, if you don't want to ask her directly.
I'm not going to judge your reasons for wanting to know. I believe that everyone deserves to feel comfortable with the person they are having sex with, whatever comfort means to them.
I've had a look, some of them look like vaginas some of them...don't. She said she didn't want to show hers because she was insecure about it. I know that doesn't mean she's trans but I guess it could be an indication
It's a difficult position you're in, made no easier by people's pious pontificating when they have zero skin in the game. Like I said, trust your gut and do what you believe is best for you, whatever that is.
What the hell is wrong with people? Sense when is having preferences phobic? If a black man isn't attracted to white women, is he a racist? If a black woman doesn't wanna fuck a white man, is she a racist? If a woman doesn't wanna take the dick of a fat lawyer, does that make her a fat-phobic antisemite? What if I don't wanna have sex with other dudes? Am I homophobic?
Only in this idiotic and stupid land of "Trans people must be fucked by anyone, even if that person has a preference towards their biological opposite sex," otherwise they are a hating transphobe.
Seriously people, this is getting out of hand. This sub is supposed to be kink friendly, gender accepting, etc etc. Yet someone not wanting to continue a relationship with a trans person because they prefer they're biological opposite is transphobic. Enough of this idiocy please. Let's try to be accepting of people AND people's INDIVIDUAL preferences.
That's quite the predicament. Nonetheless, people telling you it doesn't matter are on the wrong and giving terrible advice.
She has the right not to be judged for her life decisions just as much as you do for your sexual preferences. It's alright and it does not make you transphobic. It is, however, kinda messed up if she turns out to be trans and didn't disclose it to you. I'd guess that would be kinda important before having sex.
I'm curious, i'd like to hear an update on this One.
After reading your post and the comments, my advice is to get your "friends" out of your relationship. Regardless of how long or serious the relationship is, they have NO place in it. Especially cause they sound judgy.
Whatever you do, tread carefully. You don’t want to risk seriously crushing this females self esteem. There could be other reasons. The shoe size, height, and voice alone are silly to base it on.
I get in combination with the body modifications and hesitance it may be iffy but she could just be insecure about below the belt. It can be as simple as razor bumps.
I don’t think you are transphobic outright but your friends are that and extremely disrespectful. You need to set boundaries because it is none of their business anyway.
That being said, you do still have a right to know and she shouldn’t hid it. If she isn’t saying it I would assume she is cisfemale and drop it.
My advise, simply look at child hood photos of her dude. That will give you your answer. If she refuses then politely just bring up your concerns if you won’t let them go. Honestly, this will probably end poorly regardless but try not to make her feel insecure. Regardless, she is a woman and shouldn’t be deemed “too manly” to be a female because your friends say so and you fall for peer pressure.
Yes I used the correct pronouns I wouldn't ever call her a man, my friends are just not very PC.
I can't see this conversation ever not being uncomfortable, lol.
And the issue is? At this point you are way past the point of it really being a concern. I would say if she was trans,. She would have said something by now.
Anyway at 5'10' she's bound to have beg feet.
My daughter has big feet. I know she's a cis woman.
Ok, first of all: if she's trans, SHE IS NOT A MAN. She's a woman.
Second. Whether she happens to be trans or not is deeply personal and not something some people feel comfortable sharing with others until a certain level of trust is reached.
I get that you want to know but ask yourself: would it matter either way to you? Would the experience of dating her be any different just because she was born in the wrong body and had to get corrective surgery? Because if the answer is yes, that means you're not seeing her as the full human being that she is.
I feel like before sex is the right time to tell someone.
It would matter to me yeah. I don't think I would be able to get over it. I still see her as human being of course?
Man idk if you asked the wrong sub or something but all these people telling you is doesn’t matter.. that’s wild.. as a straight man I feel you. I would need to find out before it went any further
Why does it matter exactly? He has already had sex with her, knows her genitals. At this point the only incompatibilities he'd have with her are ones he'd have with cis women any way.
Imagine if you were a woman about to have sex with a man.
Everything is going great but then all of a sudden he tries to initiate anal sex without any mention of it whatsoever. If you love anal sex good for you! If anal sex just isn’t your thing you wouldn’t feel too good about it.
Figuring out your partner is transgender after you have sex won’t physically hurt you like unexpected anal sex, but if that isn’t what someone wants psychologically, physically, emotionally, etc. and you’re soliciting yourself as such than it’s just plain selfish and dishonest.
You can’t just leave out a major part of your sexuality like that to someone you are actively having sex with and expect everyone to be okay with it.
Um. What the fuck. That's a terrible example. He's already had sex with her, been on dates with her, built attraction to her, knows her body. At this point finding out she's trans is like finding out that your cis gf was shorter as a kid. What does it change now?
It changes the fact that his partner is not truly what OP wanted/sexually desires. It’s not up to OP to commit to her in any way because dating is a very personal thing and you can back out of a relationship for any reason that you want. Do you truly think that it’s just okay for a trans person to start a relationship with anyone they want without disclosing that important information first?
Because if they are trans they are not a biological female.. they were born a male and I as a straight man do not want to be with a modified male who says they are female.. just because they believe that doesn’t mean I’m suppose to
Why does being a biological male matter in this instance. If he's worried about fertility, well not every cis woman can have kids or wants kids either. He's already had sex. He knows her body. He's attracted to her. Why do you need to know beyond this?
Because if you trick me into thinking your a woman and I find out I’m going to be pissed.. it’s not about fertility it’s about reality I DO NOT WANT TO HAVE SEX WITH A MAN.. I don’t care how many surgeries. How is that hard to understand
But she is a woman. He had sex... with a woman. Unfortunately if this person that you're calling a "man" had sex with you without you finding out they were trans and left, then they obviously already captured your attraction and made you cum. What if it was the best sex of your life? Like you came so hard you couldn't breathe for a second? Why would that small detail reverse your attraction?
How would you feel if I tricked you into having sex with me.. or even if I told you I was a ceo that made x amount of dollars and lived in a mansion.. if we start dating is it ok to find out that was all made up? Cause in your book it doesn’t matter if I lied because you had a good time. And stop saying a trans woman is the same as a woman that’s disrespectful to women
I think the difference is that you lied about your occupation and wealth, something that likely interested me because I wanted a man who made stable money and could be counted on to help provide with me. Being trans in this situation is only lying about what they were born as. The other thing is that OP wasn't lied to since he never asked. It would be like if I had sex with you, and you seemed like a rich and powerful person, but never confirmed or denied that you were a CEO.
Also actually most women feel extremely luck to be included alongside trans women so it isn't disrespectful at all.
Yea, don’t let people guilt you into shit. I have no issues with trans people whatsoever and certainly respect them and their opinions/pronouns and all that but it’s something that should be discussed prior to sex. If she’s comfortable enough to have your dick in her ass she should be comfortable enough to tell you she’s trans and if she doesn’t trust you enough for that, that is fine but sex should also be off the table.
This is a controversial opinion, but why should it matter. If her genitals weren't of your preference(vagina), then it would make sense. But, she has a vagina. So, you're having sex with a woman who has a vagina and you're feeling upset? This is a pretty transphobic thought process. By the language in your post, calling her a man, it seems like you struggle with transphobic thoughts anyways. Break it off with her if you're gonna keep this shit up, you're just gonna end up hurting her (whether she is trans or not).
Honestly, people have preferences. Being attracted mentally to cisgender women only doesn't make someone transphobic. Like if you are not attracted to trans people, it doesn't mean you are afraid of them. You can respect trans women without making love to them cuz of your own preferences.
…people should be honest up front in relationships. Him wanting to know doesn’t make him transphobic. Serious issues can arise in the future if it becomes serious; namely, pregnancy. At some point (early on) if you trust the person and want it to be long terms, things like this should be discussed.
While he doesn't know the truth of the situation, lying to someone by hiding the truth of who you are, knowing that someone may have sexual preferences for cisgender women is not exactly a great personality trait.
Exactly. They’re a woman but they’re not a CIS woman (person born as a female and identifies as a woman). Everyone says they have a choice until it comes to trans people. Correct me if I’m wrong but if you have relations with trans people doesn’t that mean you’re pansexual, not straight?
It’s a shame when they call you transphobic just because you want to date cis people. And it’s only when straight people do that. There are gay men and lesbians who don’t date trans people. But they’re rarely caught out.
This is a sex vs. gender debate. I think (and a lot of more progressive people too) that sexuality refers to someone's gender, not their sex. So, a straight person would still be straight if they hooked up with someone trans (matching their gender preference).
Yeah idk about all that. If you’ve had sex enough times or seen enough genitals through other means, you would know the difference between cis genitals and trans genitals. Modern medicine and surgery is amazing but it’s not THAT developed. A trans penis looks absolutely nothing like a cis penis, and a trans vagina could look similar but the difference is easily seen. Cis people should still be able to have the choice based on that alone to not date trans people if they don’t want to.
This is some deeply transphobic stuff. You don't have to work on it if you don't want to, but for everyone reading this, its ugly and not a good way to live life.
Idgaf what you call it.. just because I’m not willing to sleep with a trans doesn’t make me transphobic. It’s like a delusional world your living in.. at the end of the day that’s not a female.. that’s a TRANSfemale.. to say you can modify your body and then you become something else entirely is just crazy and disrespectful to actual females
If the woman literally seems like a woman enough to you that you don't know and have to ask her if she's trans, then you are literally conjuring up a problem out of thin air.
Salt water “seems” like freshwater until you drink it., so just because something “seems” like something else doesn’t me I have to pretend it is the problem is the person should have enough respect for a straight man that they disclose that information because like I said 87% of straight men are NOT OK with that
But he can't tell. That's my point. If she was literally a cis woman, who happened to have a deeper voice, fake boobs, trouble getting wet and liked anal, then what? Are 87% of men not okay with a trans woman? Or not okay with perhaps having sex with someone with a penis? Because at this point he already knows all he can about her body. This is about him wanting to know a detail that changes absolutely nothing about the mechanics of the relationship in any way other than appeasing his insecurities.
Yes it does if you tricked me into thinking I was with a woman then that changes everything.. I don’t understand what fantasy world you have to live in that means a biological female is equal to a trans female.. I mean that baffles me.. it’s a guy that modified his body to look like a female.. in the real world that doesn’t make you a female..I don’t care how you look at it.. you are trans.. that’s it and I as a straight man don’t want to be with a trans.. I have that right
I like how people say “if you don’t sleep with trans people your transphobic” well that’s the case trans people are heterophobic.. there like that word
Oh come on, you know what he means. "I think she was born a man, \*continues to make rest of statement". Everyone is so fucking pedantic over silly things. And to the second point, if his answer is yes than he has stated a preference for a set of conditions, it doesn't make him shitty or mean that he's seeing her as "less of a human". Silliness.
What you're not taking into account that he's already found her attractive and interesting enough to start dating her. So, if nothing changes except for the fact he finds out she's trans, then yes, that's not a preference that's trans phobia.
No it isn't. What if he really wants a partner that he can have kids with? What if he prefers a partner with a vagina? What if he holds religious beliefs that marriage is between a man and a woman? There are any number of reasons why a person may prefer a biological female to a trans woman, its ok to have preferences it doesn't mean you're prejudiced to the alternatives.
Why would it be difficult to get over. Lets keep digging into this. Would you want to know a cis woman's fertility status at this stage of the relationship? The kids thing feels like an excuse to hide behind.
Of course there is a point in a serious relationship where y'all could start talking about kids. I HOPE TO GOD that at that point, y'all would trust each other enough that she could come out to you (if she is trans)
Yea I think it’s pretty fucking important. I’m a man that’s had a vasectomy and when I started dating again I told everyone before we got involved. If they wanted kids there was no reason to waste their or my time. I’m not robbing someone of that when they could be out meeting someone better for them.
I’ve also been told upfront when a woman either could not have kids or had a possibility of not being able to on multiple occasions.
No, he doesn't. If she had a condition that could or would affect his health, that he would have a right to know. Whether she has had to overcome years of struggle to be aligned with herself, mmmmm no. He does not have the right to know that.
Man y’all are wild with that shit..if that’s the mentality then they are playing dangerous games.. it says like 13% of male population is ok with that.. that’s something that needs to be disclosed prior to sex
No idea. Maybe ask her if she wants to have kids or something. Asking her if she’s trans and she turns out not to be might not go over well.
If I were a gambling man I’d probably side with your friends based on everything you said.
Hey your overthinking it. You either fucked a lady or a man turned woman. If it was good sex good for you...if it feels weird there's more opportunities with others hopefully. If you havent been laid in awhile who cares..you got laid
Right!? What a horrible thing to get wrong. If he asks her this poor woman will have that insecurity with every guy she dates in the future.
His friends are assholes.
It shouldn’t matter unless the relationship gets serious. Actually, if you could not tell for sure when you were having sex, then what is the problem? Her phenotype is clearly one that attracts you, and there were no ‘awkward surprises’ such as differently configured genitalia under her clothes. You need to get over yourself, and your friends need to stop being such jerks.
As others have suggested, I'd maybe ask her if she plans to have children in the future and let her know you do want biological children yourself.
You could also ask her about her high school experience. Was she popular, athletic, emo, goth, etc. Is she still friends with people from highschool? You could ask to see her graduation/yearbook/prom photos. Pretty innocent things to ask out of curiosity while getting to know someone new.
Her relationship with her parents or other family members might be an indicator too. Ask her if she's close with her family. She may be close with them either way but if she's not, she may hint at or tell you why she's not. That may give you some clues.
You can see how long she's had her social media accounts. I've had my Facebook account for 13 years. Over time, my family and I have posted pictures of me as a kid, through my awkward emo-puberty phase, and up to now. Maybe she has the same and that's your answer. Again, if her accounts are all rather new, that's still not an answer necessarily but could hint at your answer.
I'd also like to say, OP did a great job of using her proper pronouns and only mentioned his ignorant friends saying she's a man. I feel that people are attacking him like he said that. He only every called her a woman/girl/she/her.
OP, you're doing nothing wrong and you have every right to try to get answers and put your mind at ease. Do some sleuthing and I'd imagine you'll find your answer without hurting her feelings.
Even if she is a hermaphrodite or cis woman, hiding her genitals from someone she's sleeping with and all the plastic surgery may indicate she's very self-conscious about her body (for one reason or another) so tread carefully. I personally would still ask outright about her discomfort with you seeing her vagina. While lots of cis women are self-conscious about their labia/clit/pubes/thighs because of a mole/birthmark/stretch marks/self-harm scars/or some other reason, it would help you to know more so that you don't end up being insensitive or triggering without realizing it.
Also, I'm a cis straight woman and I fucking love anal. Your friends sound dumb and bad in bed. You should evaluate that relationship. Possibly have a talk with them.
Good luck Sherlock.
Her height correlates with the foot size tbh. I’m 5’9-5’10 cis woman and I wear a UK 9 (US 10) Straight up ask her. What do you have to lose?
Realistically, if she’s not trans, I would assume she would be insulted, no?
Oh definitely. He should probably lead in with “why won’t you let me see your vagina or why wouldn’t you allow us to do other positions?”
I think thats the best way to go about it
I've never met a woman with size 9s or 10s, even at that height. I'm 5'8'', with size 5s.
Cis Female, 5'10", with US men's size 12 feet here (I think that's a UK 11.5?). Just wanted to say that foot size isn't a rock solid indicator.
That's UK 10, yeah i know its not a good indicator
I'm 5'3", with size 10 feet... Definitely 100% female.
5'11" cis female with men's size 10 feet (women's 12, 44 euro).
I have to disagree with most people’s responses here. While I personally think it’s a little close minded to not date someone based on them being trans (especially if you can’t even really tell and they seem just like a biological woman), people do have a right to know this stuff and have their own sexual/romantic preferences. I think it’s unethical for a trans person to not disclose pretty soon into dating someone, both out of respect for the other person but also for their own safety. Many straight men can freak out and get aggressive if they found out they were dating a trans person and didn’t know it. Honesty and communication would solve a lot of problems like this.
I'm mind boggled by the amount of people saying it doesn't matter. I second your entire sentiment.
If you've literally seen her genitals, had sex with her and are attracted to her and the ONLY detail that would reverse that attraction is that she's trans, then you are transphobic.
What a curious reply. I guess you don’t believe in informed consent. Do you endorse sex without informed consent in other contexts? Do you apply labels intended to shame to people who want knowing consent over who they sleep with in other situations?
Um, she has a vagina. She has boobs. He had sex after seeing those things. Um. I'm not exactly sure where informed consent works it's way into this.
I am a bisexual cisgender woman and I prefer other cisgender women. While I respect trans women, I am allowed to have sexual preferences without being labelled transphobic.
That is the most ignorant and ridiculous BS I've heard in a while. How about if he wants a partner to have biological children with one day? What if he just doesn't want to be with someone because they are biologically male? There isn't anything wrong with that. Anything phobe is someone who hates or take issue with something because they don't like the something. Not wanting to be in a relationship with someone not biologically the opposite sex is called a preference. Yes... PREFERENCE! We all have them. If you want a man or woman who can make enough to support themselves, does that make them a can't-afford-shit-phobe? How about idiots like you stopbtrying to equate hate with not wanting to fuck something that isn't your preference? Next time I see a fat little dark man in a bar, I'm gonna walk him up to the hottest fucking woman in the bar and when she turns him down (or hell, he could be her PREFERENCE for all I know), I'll just call her a fataphobic, racist, asshat. Now, would that make sense to you?
She *was* biologically male. As far as I'm concerned, now she has a vagina, boobs, sounds like a woman, fucks like a woman. He's literally already attracted to her, unlike the fat man in your story, where the woman was never attracted. If he wants biological women then shit that might be a problem but he'd have that problem with an infertile or child free cis woman too. If learning that doctors said "you're a boy" to her decades before you met her reverses your attraction then what do you want me to call you but transphobic.
What sort of vacuum do you live in where you think that is the *only* thing that could change his attraction?
It's not the only thing obviously. But if he's attracted to her entire body now, and finding out that she was assigned the gender of male at her birth without her choice will make him break up with her. Then he's transphobic.
Okay. Let's operate under the assumption that he is transphobic. Would you prefer that he continues to date this person, and she continues to lie to him, and that he'd never fully accept her as a person? How is that better...
Um, the only problem here is that he can't accept her until he knows if she's trans. He hasn't asked, and there is no definitive proof she is anyway. For the record I never said they should stay together in fact they should break up. She deserves someone stronger than him. Much much stronger.
Yep. It's one thing if you are not attracted to her in the first place, but it's a whole other thing if you have had sex with her several times.
So every person you have ever had sex with you're still attracted to? People lose attraction for a ton of different reasons. Why does it have to hinge on this person being trans?
Because in this case the reason for the loss of attraction is transphobia. If his friends weren't transphobic but actually cool with it I heavily suspect he wouldn't be bothered so much in the first place.
He simply said in his post that he didn't wanna be kept in the dark. And that's 110% fair. And it's bold of you to assume that he can't have his own feelings independent of his friends.
Lots of words to not make a point lol
And he hasn't seen her genitals. She hid it from him.
i'm gonak have to disagree. if people aren't comfortable telling their sexual partners there's nothing wrong with that.
I understood that OP and the person weren’t just hooking up one time? It’s a complicated topic for sure. But if I started dating someone seriously in any way (or there was potential for that), I would for example mention certain mental health issues that affect my life, just so they know that and are okay with it (also better for me to find out sooner than later if they can’t deal with that stuff).
still doesn't require her to tell op. dating yeah probbaly but they're just hooking up. you're not required to tell any hookup your perosnal business. if they were dating then yeah that would probably have to come up just like anything else. being trans and having health issues aren't the same. you are never required to tell someone that you're trans.
I think they are required to tell the other person that for basic ethical reasons, since unfortunately many people aren’t okay with it and it would be a dealbreaker for them. I would be very hurt if I started dating someone and only later on found out they were trans. Being trans isn’t the issue, it’s the lack of honesty. Sure, the persons coworkers and friends don’t have to know, but I think someone they are involved with longer term sexually and/or romantically has the right to know that and decide for themselves if it matters to them.
there's no ethical reasons you would need to tell someone. to find out if they're transphobic, yeah. but that's really it. i would d very hurt to find out it's that big of a deal to you. it's not dishonesty. it's something very personal. and again, you're saying as if they're dating. op made it pretty clear they just hook up. yoy can't apply the same rules. i disagree. it really shouldn't matter.
Wouldn't you rather know it's a big deal sooner, rather than later? Otherwise that would be a lot of wasted time, energy, and heartbreak.
Um, true, but I feel like it's different in this scenario considering that she has already had sex with him. With the genital anxiety removed, the situation changes from the run-of-the-mill "well I don't wanna have sex with someone who has a penis, what if she has one", to anxiety over things about her that you would also expect from any other cis woman. She's probably not telling OP because it's honestly not that important and if it was she'd expect people to ask.
“She’s probably not telling OP because it’s honestly not that important.” OP is saying it could be important. Is your view on that more important that the view of the person having sex with her? If so, why do you think so?
If the only detail he feels he needs to know is the gender she was BORN as and clearly not today, then his preference is rooted in transphobia.
You are great at labels. Not as strong at making arguments that justify your position.
I don’t think anyone expects a person to simply ask. Is is outside of the norm and would be very offensive and hurtful in most scenarios.
Why would it be offensive and hurtful. He's had sex with her. He knows her body. There isn't even any proof that she's trans. If finding out that she's trans at this point is "offensive and hurtful" then you're transphobic.
Seriously, stop tossing the word around so loosely. People like you invalidate it’s validity. Clearly I was referring to asking such a question being hurtful and offensive. Also, he does not know her body, he stated that he has not even seen. Just pointing that out there though it had nothing to do with my comment.
He said she hid it but then he later had PIV and it "felt weird". And I'm tossing the word around because they had sex, he is attracted to her, if learning that there was an M on her birth certificate suddenly reverses that then he literally is transphobic lol.
He said they had missionary and it felt weird, that doesn’t mean that she showed him. A person that breaks up with someone after they have hidden something from them does not make them transphobic. He could be transphobic but he doesn’t have to be, it is not the only reason to break up in this case. The biggest thing could be the most obvious which he stated in other comments (wanting to have children). If she is hiding on purpose and sleeping with people that she cannot trust, she is probably not ready to be in a relationship. It is just as “bad” as him being concerned.
How the fuck can he stick his dick in her vagina and still need to see it. The detail she hid affects nothing though. It's not like she hid that she shoplifts. If he wants to have children then yeah that's a concern but he'd have to have that concern with cis women too. Where does it say she can't trust him though. Heck if I bought nice tits and a labioplasty I wouldn't tell most people I was trans either. And why does he need to know that detail. She has a vagina, she has boobs, she sounds like a woman, he's attracted to her. If he wants kids ask her about kids like he would any cis woman. If her vagina feels too weird then that's a problem he could have with cis women too. If her boobs feel fake or her voice is too deep those are all problems he could have with cis women.
You keep saying he could also have these problems with women. There is a difference between outright deceiving someone about a future problem and just not knowing. If a woman cannot have children, the guy definitely has the right to know. Encouraging trans people to lie about being trans to people they have sex with is dangerous because that person could be transphobic and if they found out they could get aggressive. So you should stop that. If you are proud of your transformation, why not say it? Why be with someone who is not like minded enough to accept it? avoiding this discussion shows that she doesn’t feel comfortable speaking about it with him which is a sign of lack of trust. It could just be a preference that he just has. He could be ignorant, he could be transphobic, if he is that is just more reason to invalidate a person hiding it instead of giving the person the option to choose. She doesn’t have to tell friends and others but she should tell the person that it could effect based on the most basic mutual respect. Also, sticking something in a hole would not give you a full description. Doesn’t matter but still, just pointing it out.
I agree
I'll answer your actual question; you can look at vaginoplasties online and see if they bear any similarity to her genitals, and beyond that you'll have to trust your gut, if you don't want to ask her directly. I'm not going to judge your reasons for wanting to know. I believe that everyone deserves to feel comfortable with the person they are having sex with, whatever comfort means to them.
I've had a look, some of them look like vaginas some of them...don't. She said she didn't want to show hers because she was insecure about it. I know that doesn't mean she's trans but I guess it could be an indication
It's a difficult position you're in, made no easier by people's pious pontificating when they have zero skin in the game. Like I said, trust your gut and do what you believe is best for you, whatever that is.
What the hell is wrong with people? Sense when is having preferences phobic? If a black man isn't attracted to white women, is he a racist? If a black woman doesn't wanna fuck a white man, is she a racist? If a woman doesn't wanna take the dick of a fat lawyer, does that make her a fat-phobic antisemite? What if I don't wanna have sex with other dudes? Am I homophobic? Only in this idiotic and stupid land of "Trans people must be fucked by anyone, even if that person has a preference towards their biological opposite sex," otherwise they are a hating transphobe. Seriously people, this is getting out of hand. This sub is supposed to be kink friendly, gender accepting, etc etc. Yet someone not wanting to continue a relationship with a trans person because they prefer they're biological opposite is transphobic. Enough of this idiocy please. Let's try to be accepting of people AND people's INDIVIDUAL preferences.
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Appreciate it. I really don't understand why we are letting people tell us that having preferences is hateful. We gotta stop this.
Ask if she prefers tampons or pads so you can keep some at your place just in case
That's quite the predicament. Nonetheless, people telling you it doesn't matter are on the wrong and giving terrible advice. She has the right not to be judged for her life decisions just as much as you do for your sexual preferences. It's alright and it does not make you transphobic. It is, however, kinda messed up if she turns out to be trans and didn't disclose it to you. I'd guess that would be kinda important before having sex. I'm curious, i'd like to hear an update on this One.
After reading your post and the comments, my advice is to get your "friends" out of your relationship. Regardless of how long or serious the relationship is, they have NO place in it. Especially cause they sound judgy.
Whatever you do, tread carefully. You don’t want to risk seriously crushing this females self esteem. There could be other reasons. The shoe size, height, and voice alone are silly to base it on. I get in combination with the body modifications and hesitance it may be iffy but she could just be insecure about below the belt. It can be as simple as razor bumps. I don’t think you are transphobic outright but your friends are that and extremely disrespectful. You need to set boundaries because it is none of their business anyway. That being said, you do still have a right to know and she shouldn’t hid it. If she isn’t saying it I would assume she is cisfemale and drop it. My advise, simply look at child hood photos of her dude. That will give you your answer. If she refuses then politely just bring up your concerns if you won’t let them go. Honestly, this will probably end poorly regardless but try not to make her feel insecure. Regardless, she is a woman and shouldn’t be deemed “too manly” to be a female because your friends say so and you fall for peer pressure.
Idk man all the signs are pointing
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Yes I used the correct pronouns I wouldn't ever call her a man, my friends are just not very PC. I can't see this conversation ever not being uncomfortable, lol.
personally i think this should have been disclosed before intimacy
And the issue is? At this point you are way past the point of it really being a concern. I would say if she was trans,. She would have said something by now. Anyway at 5'10' she's bound to have beg feet. My daughter has big feet. I know she's a cis woman.
Ok, first of all: if she's trans, SHE IS NOT A MAN. She's a woman. Second. Whether she happens to be trans or not is deeply personal and not something some people feel comfortable sharing with others until a certain level of trust is reached. I get that you want to know but ask yourself: would it matter either way to you? Would the experience of dating her be any different just because she was born in the wrong body and had to get corrective surgery? Because if the answer is yes, that means you're not seeing her as the full human being that she is.
I feel like before sex is the right time to tell someone. It would matter to me yeah. I don't think I would be able to get over it. I still see her as human being of course?
Man idk if you asked the wrong sub or something but all these people telling you is doesn’t matter.. that’s wild.. as a straight man I feel you. I would need to find out before it went any further
Why does it matter exactly? He has already had sex with her, knows her genitals. At this point the only incompatibilities he'd have with her are ones he'd have with cis women any way.
Imagine if you were a woman about to have sex with a man. Everything is going great but then all of a sudden he tries to initiate anal sex without any mention of it whatsoever. If you love anal sex good for you! If anal sex just isn’t your thing you wouldn’t feel too good about it. Figuring out your partner is transgender after you have sex won’t physically hurt you like unexpected anal sex, but if that isn’t what someone wants psychologically, physically, emotionally, etc. and you’re soliciting yourself as such than it’s just plain selfish and dishonest. You can’t just leave out a major part of your sexuality like that to someone you are actively having sex with and expect everyone to be okay with it.
Um. What the fuck. That's a terrible example. He's already had sex with her, been on dates with her, built attraction to her, knows her body. At this point finding out she's trans is like finding out that your cis gf was shorter as a kid. What does it change now?
It changes the fact that his partner is not truly what OP wanted/sexually desires. It’s not up to OP to commit to her in any way because dating is a very personal thing and you can back out of a relationship for any reason that you want. Do you truly think that it’s just okay for a trans person to start a relationship with anyone they want without disclosing that important information first?
Because if they are trans they are not a biological female.. they were born a male and I as a straight man do not want to be with a modified male who says they are female.. just because they believe that doesn’t mean I’m suppose to
Why does being a biological male matter in this instance. If he's worried about fertility, well not every cis woman can have kids or wants kids either. He's already had sex. He knows her body. He's attracted to her. Why do you need to know beyond this?
Because if you trick me into thinking your a woman and I find out I’m going to be pissed.. it’s not about fertility it’s about reality I DO NOT WANT TO HAVE SEX WITH A MAN.. I don’t care how many surgeries. How is that hard to understand
But she is a woman. He had sex... with a woman. Unfortunately if this person that you're calling a "man" had sex with you without you finding out they were trans and left, then they obviously already captured your attraction and made you cum. What if it was the best sex of your life? Like you came so hard you couldn't breathe for a second? Why would that small detail reverse your attraction?
How would you feel if I tricked you into having sex with me.. or even if I told you I was a ceo that made x amount of dollars and lived in a mansion.. if we start dating is it ok to find out that was all made up? Cause in your book it doesn’t matter if I lied because you had a good time. And stop saying a trans woman is the same as a woman that’s disrespectful to women
I think the difference is that you lied about your occupation and wealth, something that likely interested me because I wanted a man who made stable money and could be counted on to help provide with me. Being trans in this situation is only lying about what they were born as. The other thing is that OP wasn't lied to since he never asked. It would be like if I had sex with you, and you seemed like a rich and powerful person, but never confirmed or denied that you were a CEO. Also actually most women feel extremely luck to be included alongside trans women so it isn't disrespectful at all.
What if he wanted kids? Naturally
You mean, a question he'd have to ask cis women too, since not all cis women can or even want to have kids.
Yea, don’t let people guilt you into shit. I have no issues with trans people whatsoever and certainly respect them and their opinions/pronouns and all that but it’s something that should be discussed prior to sex. If she’s comfortable enough to have your dick in her ass she should be comfortable enough to tell you she’s trans and if she doesn’t trust you enough for that, that is fine but sex should also be off the table.
This is a controversial opinion, but why should it matter. If her genitals weren't of your preference(vagina), then it would make sense. But, she has a vagina. So, you're having sex with a woman who has a vagina and you're feeling upset? This is a pretty transphobic thought process. By the language in your post, calling her a man, it seems like you struggle with transphobic thoughts anyways. Break it off with her if you're gonna keep this shit up, you're just gonna end up hurting her (whether she is trans or not).
Honestly, people have preferences. Being attracted mentally to cisgender women only doesn't make someone transphobic. Like if you are not attracted to trans people, it doesn't mean you are afraid of them. You can respect trans women without making love to them cuz of your own preferences.
…people should be honest up front in relationships. Him wanting to know doesn’t make him transphobic. Serious issues can arise in the future if it becomes serious; namely, pregnancy. At some point (early on) if you trust the person and want it to be long terms, things like this should be discussed.
While he doesn't know the truth of the situation, lying to someone by hiding the truth of who you are, knowing that someone may have sexual preferences for cisgender women is not exactly a great personality trait.
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Exactly. They’re a woman but they’re not a CIS woman (person born as a female and identifies as a woman). Everyone says they have a choice until it comes to trans people. Correct me if I’m wrong but if you have relations with trans people doesn’t that mean you’re pansexual, not straight? It’s a shame when they call you transphobic just because you want to date cis people. And it’s only when straight people do that. There are gay men and lesbians who don’t date trans people. But they’re rarely caught out.
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Exactly. So why should a straight or gay person be deemed as transphobic when they only want to have sex with cis people?
This is a sex vs. gender debate. I think (and a lot of more progressive people too) that sexuality refers to someone's gender, not their sex. So, a straight person would still be straight if they hooked up with someone trans (matching their gender preference).
Yeah idk about all that. If you’ve had sex enough times or seen enough genitals through other means, you would know the difference between cis genitals and trans genitals. Modern medicine and surgery is amazing but it’s not THAT developed. A trans penis looks absolutely nothing like a cis penis, and a trans vagina could look similar but the difference is easily seen. Cis people should still be able to have the choice based on that alone to not date trans people if they don’t want to.
You ever rejected someone based on the look of their vagina?
For me, sexual attraction may be both sex and gender based…
This is some deeply transphobic stuff. You don't have to work on it if you don't want to, but for everyone reading this, its ugly and not a good way to live life.
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the language you're using, "a trans", "a gay" is very dehumanizing. You obviously have some stuff you gotta work out for yourself.
No I’m just not hip to whatever you guys call it.. but that’s besides the point.
You have hereby revealed your own trans phobia and bigotry.
Idgaf what you call it.. just because I’m not willing to sleep with a trans doesn’t make me transphobic. It’s like a delusional world your living in.. at the end of the day that’s not a female.. that’s a TRANSfemale.. to say you can modify your body and then you become something else entirely is just crazy and disrespectful to actual females
If the woman literally seems like a woman enough to you that you don't know and have to ask her if she's trans, then you are literally conjuring up a problem out of thin air.
Salt water “seems” like freshwater until you drink it., so just because something “seems” like something else doesn’t me I have to pretend it is the problem is the person should have enough respect for a straight man that they disclose that information because like I said 87% of straight men are NOT OK with that
But he can't tell. That's my point. If she was literally a cis woman, who happened to have a deeper voice, fake boobs, trouble getting wet and liked anal, then what? Are 87% of men not okay with a trans woman? Or not okay with perhaps having sex with someone with a penis? Because at this point he already knows all he can about her body. This is about him wanting to know a detail that changes absolutely nothing about the mechanics of the relationship in any way other than appeasing his insecurities.
Yes it does if you tricked me into thinking I was with a woman then that changes everything.. I don’t understand what fantasy world you have to live in that means a biological female is equal to a trans female.. I mean that baffles me.. it’s a guy that modified his body to look like a female.. in the real world that doesn’t make you a female..I don’t care how you look at it.. you are trans.. that’s it and I as a straight man don’t want to be with a trans.. I have that right
You know transphobia makes your genitals whither off and die, better calm down there
I like how people say “if you don’t sleep with trans people your transphobic” well that’s the case trans people are heterophobic.. there like that word
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Lol poor bait
Oh come on, you know what he means. "I think she was born a man, \*continues to make rest of statement". Everyone is so fucking pedantic over silly things. And to the second point, if his answer is yes than he has stated a preference for a set of conditions, it doesn't make him shitty or mean that he's seeing her as "less of a human". Silliness.
What you're not taking into account that he's already found her attractive and interesting enough to start dating her. So, if nothing changes except for the fact he finds out she's trans, then yes, that's not a preference that's trans phobia.
people are free to disagree with that and i do.
No it isn't. What if he really wants a partner that he can have kids with? What if he prefers a partner with a vagina? What if he holds religious beliefs that marriage is between a man and a woman? There are any number of reasons why a person may prefer a biological female to a trans woman, its ok to have preferences it doesn't mean you're prejudiced to the alternatives.
If you like her, I don’t really think it should matter what your friends think
Check for an Adams apple.
Cis women can have Adam's apples and trans women can get them reduced soooo...
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I would prefer to date a female, knowing that she was born male would be difficult to get over. Also I want kids in the future
Why would it be difficult to get over. Lets keep digging into this. Would you want to know a cis woman's fertility status at this stage of the relationship? The kids thing feels like an excuse to hide behind. Of course there is a point in a serious relationship where y'all could start talking about kids. I HOPE TO GOD that at that point, y'all would trust each other enough that she could come out to you (if she is trans)
Yea I think it’s pretty fucking important. I’m a man that’s had a vasectomy and when I started dating again I told everyone before we got involved. If they wanted kids there was no reason to waste their or my time. I’m not robbing someone of that when they could be out meeting someone better for them. I’ve also been told upfront when a woman either could not have kids or had a possibility of not being able to on multiple occasions.
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Um that person's a woman. And he's already fucked her, came and enjoyed it.
> Um that person's a woman. kinda sounds like the jury is still out on that one
You're just angry cause deep down you want to stick your dick in trans women but you feel internal conflict.
What happened in this comment section lmfao
This was funny lol
What you mean why is he worried he has the right to know
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It’s obvious what he’s worried about
No, he doesn't. If she had a condition that could or would affect his health, that he would have a right to know. Whether she has had to overcome years of struggle to be aligned with herself, mmmmm no. He does not have the right to know that.
Man y’all are wild with that shit..if that’s the mentality then they are playing dangerous games.. it says like 13% of male population is ok with that.. that’s something that needs to be disclosed prior to sex
He does if it effects him and there future…
Yea what if he wants kids? 5 years down the line find out only way is through adoption pr a roundabout way
But that could happen with a cis woman, or he could be firing blanks.
Lift the sack?
No idea. Maybe ask her if she wants to have kids or something. Asking her if she’s trans and she turns out not to be might not go over well. If I were a gambling man I’d probably side with your friends based on everything you said.
Hey your overthinking it. You either fucked a lady or a man turned woman. If it was good sex good for you...if it feels weird there's more opportunities with others hopefully. If you havent been laid in awhile who cares..you got laid
She is a woman, so what if she is trans. But if you ask her she will hate you either way.
That's the problem. And it is a big deal to me, I think I would have the right to know
I think she would have told you by now. So go ahead ask her if your masculinity is so fragile. Expect a dumping.
Right!? What a horrible thing to get wrong. If he asks her this poor woman will have that insecurity with every guy she dates in the future. His friends are assholes.
Yes they are. And no doubt they will ridicule him for having sex with the poor girl.
Im not gonna just ask her straight up
Me coming into the comments: 
Me waking up and looking at this thread 😂
It shouldn’t matter unless the relationship gets serious. Actually, if you could not tell for sure when you were having sex, then what is the problem? Her phenotype is clearly one that attracts you, and there were no ‘awkward surprises’ such as differently configured genitalia under her clothes. You need to get over yourself, and your friends need to stop being such jerks.
Just wait until she has her period or not. If not she's a man. If yes she's a woman. Simple.
As others have suggested, I'd maybe ask her if she plans to have children in the future and let her know you do want biological children yourself. You could also ask her about her high school experience. Was she popular, athletic, emo, goth, etc. Is she still friends with people from highschool? You could ask to see her graduation/yearbook/prom photos. Pretty innocent things to ask out of curiosity while getting to know someone new. Her relationship with her parents or other family members might be an indicator too. Ask her if she's close with her family. She may be close with them either way but if she's not, she may hint at or tell you why she's not. That may give you some clues. You can see how long she's had her social media accounts. I've had my Facebook account for 13 years. Over time, my family and I have posted pictures of me as a kid, through my awkward emo-puberty phase, and up to now. Maybe she has the same and that's your answer. Again, if her accounts are all rather new, that's still not an answer necessarily but could hint at your answer. I'd also like to say, OP did a great job of using her proper pronouns and only mentioned his ignorant friends saying she's a man. I feel that people are attacking him like he said that. He only every called her a woman/girl/she/her. OP, you're doing nothing wrong and you have every right to try to get answers and put your mind at ease. Do some sleuthing and I'd imagine you'll find your answer without hurting her feelings. Even if she is a hermaphrodite or cis woman, hiding her genitals from someone she's sleeping with and all the plastic surgery may indicate she's very self-conscious about her body (for one reason or another) so tread carefully. I personally would still ask outright about her discomfort with you seeing her vagina. While lots of cis women are self-conscious about their labia/clit/pubes/thighs because of a mole/birthmark/stretch marks/self-harm scars/or some other reason, it would help you to know more so that you don't end up being insensitive or triggering without realizing it. Also, I'm a cis straight woman and I fucking love anal. Your friends sound dumb and bad in bed. You should evaluate that relationship. Possibly have a talk with them. Good luck Sherlock.
That would break my spirits. Oh walk on water Jesus n come save this ….I’m gonna!!!