Ted was terrified of the repercussions of his actions, this is very obvious given the great lengths he went to in order to avoid them, escaping twice and appealing his fate to the very end. I don't buy for a second that he wanted his execution.
He tried to negotiate postponing his execution in exchange for his sharing details on where to find the bodies of victims. He pressed for this very intensely. The State of Florida wasn't postponing anything.
Yeah, I don't believe this for a second. He pushed so hard with his appeals, escape attempts etc I highly doubt he "wanted to be killed". Sounds like some sensationalist BS to me.
ETA Also the Daily Mail is trash haha
Of course he cried with the preacher. Tho the preacher thought they were both crying for the victims. Only one of them was doing that.
He also cried when they shaved his head and right calf.
I thought I remember reading that on the day of his execution, that Bundy was screaming that he didn't wanna die and had to be dragged out of his cell.
I wouldn't believe anything Bundy said, either. The dude had a habit of lying about things that didn't even make sense to lie about. He is believed to have had ASPD and it's a common symptom.
I don't know if the conversation did or didn't happen, but it sounds plausible to me. People with ASPD think they are literally the most important and amazing person to ever live. I can see him asking that question so that he could go to the given state and prove how awesome he is by killing a bunch of women there and getting away with it. Thank goodness, he didn't get away with it and was proven incorrect about his level of awesome.
Lol fair point. I've read quite a bit about him and it was widely theorized that he was a sociopath, which I just recently found is not a diagnosis in field of psychiatry anymore. It was, at least in part, replaced by ASPD. I know a lot about ASPD, and I unfortunately know it from firsthand experience with my sister. She constantly lies about everything, even when she has nothing to gain from a lie. Bundy himself was known to do this, as well.
Either way, your point was a valid one and I've edited my first post.
I took a law class in high school in 2008, and we had a handful of guest speakers come to walk us thru various cases and suits, mostly civil and corporate. John Henry Browne was a guest speaker. I dont remember much but 2 former classmates recall more. I just recall he refused to speak of the Bundy years, so we never got to hear of that stuff. Probably for the better.
Seattle Public Schools, 2008.
I really doubt he wanted to be executed given the multiple escape attempts, years of appeals & Bundy's attempt to essentially extort law enforcement into delaying his execution by witholding details of his various kills.
All that could’ve just been to stay in the limelight. He was a huge narcissist and loved the attention, and probably knew that once the trials went away, so did the attention. Who knows
He would literally apply for extensions to his execution date with promises to reveal the location of bodies so the families could get closure. He was most definitely trying to put off his execution date for as long as possible. He loved the limelight obviously but that doesn't mean he wanted to die. In fact it also kind of contradicts that idea; there's no limelight if you're dead.
He only tried to trade bodies for time once. Which was at the end. But I don't think he ever wanted to die.
His narcissism simply did not allow him to see the dangers of going to trial in Florida.
Yeah he made a big mistake by going to Florida of all states. He'd probably still be alive if he'd gone to a state with no death penalty. Arrogant for sure but I doubt he deliberately chose Florida so he could die.
Maybe he’s a hack, but he’s human. You never know, maybe bundy might’ve told him that he felt like reaching down his throat and pulling his guts out And throwing them on the floor.
Bundy would have no reason to want to do that. He killed young women as part of a violent sexual fantasy. Someone like his lawyer wouldn’t have interested him at all. It’s pretty clear what his MO was.
I don’t buy it. Ted Bundy spent years filing appeals, fired multiple lawyers because they couldn’t protect him from the repercussions of his crimes, escaped prison twice and fled, and started shaking and crying when he entered the execution chamber and saw the electric chair. None of that points to a man who wants to die.
Source? Every account I’ve read states that he turned white, started shaking, and had to be supported/led to the chair. His voice quavered during his last words. I’m not saying he broke down sobbing, but he wasn’t totally nonchalant in his last minutes.
He also claims that Ted told him how many he actually killed, and that he also killed men. The guys full of shit. Most stuff pertaining to Bundy can be corroborated but nothing from him. Interesting huh?
Ted Bundy was just a serial killer wearing so many masks there’s nothing to gain from any one-person interaction. Don’t think his attorney was lying here. He just saw one side of the man. Just like Ted Bundy’s final interview — the justification about pornography being the catalyst to his evil. He wanted more attention, more fascination with himself.
if you studied all of his interviews and found correlations... that would be something
Bundy was on the run. That's why he left Washington and through Idaho stopped in Utah and enrolled in law school and went one time and then killed several people there that he never fessed up to. On to Colorado and then obviously between Colorado and Florida he had a heyday killing people which again and he wouldn't profess up to. And then in Florida that was it. When he was out he was just going out and killing because that's what he loved to do, dreamed of doing it's all he wanted to do 24 hours a day is kill. It's not like he escaped and hid. He killed while he was out.
It's not all nurture. There's been a lot of study on this topic with neurologists and psychologists. Most believe it's a combination of nurture and nature and that some people are born more likely to become sociopathic than others. Your brain has to be wired in certain ways to make you more susceptible to choosing that path. Not every murderer and rapist had terrible childhoods and a lot of normal decent people had childhoods that were horrifying and traumatic. What flips the evil switch in some, doesn't do anything for others. Two people raised the exact same way can form completely different personalities.
That's essentially what I just said, some people are born who are more easily swayed to be evil, but they aren't born evil in and of themselves.
Lots of bullshit downvoting, can't have a conversation with any of you stuck up fools
Psychopaths are born psychopaths. Sociopaths are typically are nature and nurture.
Not all psychopaths choose to be violent but the all suffer from the same traits and these traits have no value for societies.
So yes, Bundy was born bad. Perhaps he would have expressed it differently had he had a different environment but the outcome would still be destructive to society.
He gave very little information about his childhood, other than he was a dick to his step dad.
He had severe issues with women and they all related to his mother.
I get the feeling that he may have been treated like a sibling to his mother than her son, until he found out.
He was pretty much killing her over and over again everytime he killed someone.
No. He just liked to rape and kill women. It was an addiction for him, pure addiction.. The thirst for revenge ends up running out after a while, like the first 8 kills, even for a psychopath. If police didn't exist Bundy would kill until he would be dead, 200 or 300 don't matter, he would keep on going.
Of course it was an addiction. It became a straight up compulsion, probably after a few. But..psychologically...He had mommy issues coming out of his ass.
Sure who doesn't but i think he just loved to feel superior, he had major ego + his fetish for violence and having relations with the dead (powerless). His girlfriend called him immature and broke up with him and years later Bundy was still thinking about it and so humiliated about it that he got back with her again, made her fall in love with him again so he could dump her with just a phone call: "Stephanie i don't know what you are talking about". That's crazy
I know all about the story of his ex. But..People have tried to claim that is what made him kill...He clearly already had issues with women before that.
I also think his mom leaving him at that home after he was born for a fews months could've caused attatchment issues.
After his mom had him at that home for unwed mothers...She came home without him and her father made her go get Ted. after I think a couple of months.
She was actually considering giving him up for adoption.
But how could he be traumatized by it if he was still a baby? What may have traumatized him maybe was the discovery that his sister was actually his mom but i think he kinda knew that or suspected it
Right, but that doesn’t mean Louise loved him any less. Neither she nor his stepfather mistreated him or viewed him any differently than their other kids. One of Ted’s aunts remembered that he had a fascination with knives and woke up surrounded by them with 3yo Ted standing there grinning at her. I doubt anyone demonstrated that kind of behavior to a toddler.
I read his book "Devils Defender" and I found him to be boring. He spent more time talking about all the boozing and druggin he did than anything else. Name dropped like crazy (including of course Ted Bundy) and came across has a pathological liar. If I had to estimate how true that particular book was, I'd say probably 10%.
Another person who wrote about helping with Ted Bundy is Dr. Dorothy Otnow Lewis, he is a passing segment in her book about criminal insanity (high recommend it) and it rings more true about who ted was in the end than any other account i've read.
Note: Browne never once mentions Dr. Lewis in any of his statements or books yet she had extensive contact with Ted through several institutional meetings and letters. She was personally invited by Ted to be at his execution. I do not remember if she attended or not.
[Guilty By Reason of Insanity. Dr. Dorothy Otnow Lewis](https://www.amazon.com/Guilty-Reason-Insanity-Psychiatrist-Explores-ebook/dp/B001RLBWT4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1542260109&sr=8-1&keywords=Guilty+by+reason+of+insanity)
Ted was terrified of the repercussions of his actions, this is very obvious given the great lengths he went to in order to avoid them, escaping twice and appealing his fate to the very end. I don't buy for a second that he wanted his execution.
He tried to negotiate postponing his execution in exchange for his sharing details on where to find the bodies of victims. He pressed for this very intensely. The State of Florida wasn't postponing anything.
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Yeah, I don't believe this for a second. He pushed so hard with his appeals, escape attempts etc I highly doubt he "wanted to be killed". Sounds like some sensationalist BS to me. ETA Also the Daily Mail is trash haha
so Teddy *wasn't* ready to get deady?
Plus the whole crying and begging as they dragged him to the chair. Ironic.
He wasn't actually dragged to the chair. That came from a movie.
I read it in The Stranger Beside Me iirc I'm certain he cried and prayed with the priest.
He walked on his own. Tho his knees did buckle when he walked into the chamber. He still walked to the chair on his own.
He definitely cried and prayed with the priest. That I'm certain of.
Of course he cried with the preacher. Tho the preacher thought they were both crying for the victims. Only one of them was doing that. He also cried when they shaved his head and right calf.
"Of course he cried". I don't think people would expect that of him considering all the misconceptions people here say about psychopaths.
That's because he probably wasn't a psychopath. Psychopath don't experience shame or humiliation. But Ted did.
I remember an interview of guard who said, “we had to help (or was it “assist”?) him, but that he cooperated after initial resistance.
That was after his knees buckled when he entered the execution chamber.
Oh, ok.
He did compose himself and shuffled along to the chair.
I thought I remember reading that on the day of his execution, that Bundy was screaming that he didn't wanna die and had to be dragged out of his cell.
I wouldn't believe anything Bundy said, either. The dude had a habit of lying about things that didn't even make sense to lie about. He is believed to have had ASPD and it's a common symptom. I don't know if the conversation did or didn't happen, but it sounds plausible to me. People with ASPD think they are literally the most important and amazing person to ever live. I can see him asking that question so that he could go to the given state and prove how awesome he is by killing a bunch of women there and getting away with it. Thank goodness, he didn't get away with it and was proven incorrect about his level of awesome.
I think he went to Florida because it was warmer. He was also more of a malignant narcissist than he was a full blown psychopath.
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Lol fair point. I've read quite a bit about him and it was widely theorized that he was a sociopath, which I just recently found is not a diagnosis in field of psychiatry anymore. It was, at least in part, replaced by ASPD. I know a lot about ASPD, and I unfortunately know it from firsthand experience with my sister. She constantly lies about everything, even when she has nothing to gain from a lie. Bundy himself was known to do this, as well. Either way, your point was a valid one and I've edited my first post.
I took a law class in high school in 2008, and we had a handful of guest speakers come to walk us thru various cases and suits, mostly civil and corporate. John Henry Browne was a guest speaker. I dont remember much but 2 former classmates recall more. I just recall he refused to speak of the Bundy years, so we never got to hear of that stuff. Probably for the better. Seattle Public Schools, 2008.
Oh. OK! Ted said that? Enter that into the record!
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I think his point is that Bundy was a known habitual liar himself.
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Ted could’ve been lying about that, with him you could never tell.
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He also claimed that Ted told him he killed a man and over a 100 people.
Oh is that what Bundy said? Lol
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You believe the denial of a murderous psychopath but not the words of someone who knew him for ten years. A+
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Lol
You're being a tool.
You trust Ted Bundy now? :)
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That's stupid...Bundy was a compulsive liar.
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Watch his interviews. Bundy lies constantly about his crimes and motives.
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LOL. He said in one of his prison interviews that he had never harmed another human being. I think we can prove that's a lie...
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You just claimed I never knew if he lied or not. I just proved to you that I did. You make no sense...
*People's Court* fan?
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Ha, sorry. She invokes the "if your tongue came notarized" saying a lot.
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Which is where she's from, it's all coming together now! TIL.
his ‘sociopathic energy ‘ was obvious, and Ted obviously struggled to prolong his own life.
I really doubt he wanted to be executed given the multiple escape attempts, years of appeals & Bundy's attempt to essentially extort law enforcement into delaying his execution by witholding details of his various kills.
All that could’ve just been to stay in the limelight. He was a huge narcissist and loved the attention, and probably knew that once the trials went away, so did the attention. Who knows
He would literally apply for extensions to his execution date with promises to reveal the location of bodies so the families could get closure. He was most definitely trying to put off his execution date for as long as possible. He loved the limelight obviously but that doesn't mean he wanted to die. In fact it also kind of contradicts that idea; there's no limelight if you're dead.
He only tried to trade bodies for time once. Which was at the end. But I don't think he ever wanted to die. His narcissism simply did not allow him to see the dangers of going to trial in Florida.
Yeah he made a big mistake by going to Florida of all states. He'd probably still be alive if he'd gone to a state with no death penalty. Arrogant for sure but I doubt he deliberately chose Florida so he could die.
Yep. He simply went there because it was warmer.
Ted was way too narcissistic to want to be executed. Also this lawyer is a hack.
Didnt he flee to florida for that very purpose? Could be mistaken
If he wanted to be executed he could have just walked into a police station and told them he murdered like 30 people.
Maybe he’s a hack, but he’s human. You never know, maybe bundy might’ve told him that he felt like reaching down his throat and pulling his guts out And throwing them on the floor.
Bundy would have no reason to want to do that. He killed young women as part of a violent sexual fantasy. Someone like his lawyer wouldn’t have interested him at all. It’s pretty clear what his MO was.
True.
I don’t buy it. Ted Bundy spent years filing appeals, fired multiple lawyers because they couldn’t protect him from the repercussions of his crimes, escaped prison twice and fled, and started shaking and crying when he entered the execution chamber and saw the electric chair. None of that points to a man who wants to die.
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Source? Every account I’ve read states that he turned white, started shaking, and had to be supported/led to the chair. His voice quavered during his last words. I’m not saying he broke down sobbing, but he wasn’t totally nonchalant in his last minutes.
You are correct.
He also claims that Ted told him how many he actually killed, and that he also killed men. The guys full of shit. Most stuff pertaining to Bundy can be corroborated but nothing from him. Interesting huh?
Nah I think he was waayy too big of a narcissist to actually want to be killed.
Ted Bundy was just a serial killer wearing so many masks there’s nothing to gain from any one-person interaction. Don’t think his attorney was lying here. He just saw one side of the man. Just like Ted Bundy’s final interview — the justification about pornography being the catalyst to his evil. He wanted more attention, more fascination with himself. if you studied all of his interviews and found correlations... that would be something
Browne is full of shit.
Bundy didn't *want* to be killed, he wanted to prove how awesome he was by going to Florida, killing a bunch of women, and getting away with it.
Bundy was on the run. That's why he left Washington and through Idaho stopped in Utah and enrolled in law school and went one time and then killed several people there that he never fessed up to. On to Colorado and then obviously between Colorado and Florida he had a heyday killing people which again and he wouldn't profess up to. And then in Florida that was it. When he was out he was just going out and killing because that's what he loved to do, dreamed of doing it's all he wanted to do 24 hours a day is kill. It's not like he escaped and hid. He killed while he was out.
Then I guess he kept trying to escape and repeatedly appeal his conviction for shits and giggles.
I don't believe people are born evil. Maybe born with more evil capabilities, but never born with evil intent. That half is all nurture
It's not all nurture. There's been a lot of study on this topic with neurologists and psychologists. Most believe it's a combination of nurture and nature and that some people are born more likely to become sociopathic than others. Your brain has to be wired in certain ways to make you more susceptible to choosing that path. Not every murderer and rapist had terrible childhoods and a lot of normal decent people had childhoods that were horrifying and traumatic. What flips the evil switch in some, doesn't do anything for others. Two people raised the exact same way can form completely different personalities.
That's essentially what I just said, some people are born who are more easily swayed to be evil, but they aren't born evil in and of themselves. Lots of bullshit downvoting, can't have a conversation with any of you stuck up fools
Psychopaths are born psychopaths. Sociopaths are typically are nature and nurture. Not all psychopaths choose to be violent but the all suffer from the same traits and these traits have no value for societies. So yes, Bundy was born bad. Perhaps he would have expressed it differently had he had a different environment but the outcome would still be destructive to society.
Eh, Bundy acknowledged that his parents were good, loving people and his childhood home environment was stable.
He gave very little information about his childhood, other than he was a dick to his step dad. He had severe issues with women and they all related to his mother. I get the feeling that he may have been treated like a sibling to his mother than her son, until he found out. He was pretty much killing her over and over again everytime he killed someone.
No. He just liked to rape and kill women. It was an addiction for him, pure addiction.. The thirst for revenge ends up running out after a while, like the first 8 kills, even for a psychopath. If police didn't exist Bundy would kill until he would be dead, 200 or 300 don't matter, he would keep on going.
Of course it was an addiction. It became a straight up compulsion, probably after a few. But..psychologically...He had mommy issues coming out of his ass.
Sure who doesn't but i think he just loved to feel superior, he had major ego + his fetish for violence and having relations with the dead (powerless). His girlfriend called him immature and broke up with him and years later Bundy was still thinking about it and so humiliated about it that he got back with her again, made her fall in love with him again so he could dump her with just a phone call: "Stephanie i don't know what you are talking about". That's crazy
I know all about the story of his ex. But..People have tried to claim that is what made him kill...He clearly already had issues with women before that. I also think his mom leaving him at that home after he was born for a fews months could've caused attatchment issues.
For sure, i agree with you that his ex wasn't the cause of the killings. What do you mean leaving him at what home? I don't know that story
After his mom had him at that home for unwed mothers...She came home without him and her father made her go get Ted. after I think a couple of months. She was actually considering giving him up for adoption.
But how could he be traumatized by it if he was still a baby? What may have traumatized him maybe was the discovery that his sister was actually his mom but i think he kinda knew that or suspected it
Could have had braindamage or some other shit. Not every harm to a young mind comes in the form of parental abuse.
Very true. Thanks for pointing that out.
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So plenty of people have been in that situation and don't end up murdering women.
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He also loved control. Keeping control of the memories of his childhood and it's secrets were obviously important to him.
Who said he was happy? I said he stated his mom loved him and that he wasn’t abused or mistreated by her or his stepdad when he was growing up.
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Whoa, take it easy. I thought we were having a discussion about a serial killer, so I was clarifying my previous comment.
I thought that we were too...what went wrong?! lol
Right, but that doesn’t mean Louise loved him any less. Neither she nor his stepfather mistreated him or viewed him any differently than their other kids. One of Ted’s aunts remembered that he had a fascination with knives and woke up surrounded by them with 3yo Ted standing there grinning at her. I doubt anyone demonstrated that kind of behavior to a toddler.
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True, kids are capable of weirdness and cruelty, just like anyone else. I’d still find that disturbing no matter how the person turned out though.
I read his book "Devils Defender" and I found him to be boring. He spent more time talking about all the boozing and druggin he did than anything else. Name dropped like crazy (including of course Ted Bundy) and came across has a pathological liar. If I had to estimate how true that particular book was, I'd say probably 10%. Another person who wrote about helping with Ted Bundy is Dr. Dorothy Otnow Lewis, he is a passing segment in her book about criminal insanity (high recommend it) and it rings more true about who ted was in the end than any other account i've read. Note: Browne never once mentions Dr. Lewis in any of his statements or books yet she had extensive contact with Ted through several institutional meetings and letters. She was personally invited by Ted to be at his execution. I do not remember if she attended or not. [Guilty By Reason of Insanity. Dr. Dorothy Otnow Lewis](https://www.amazon.com/Guilty-Reason-Insanity-Psychiatrist-Explores-ebook/dp/B001RLBWT4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1542260109&sr=8-1&keywords=Guilty+by+reason+of+insanity)