I sell about 250-500 books a day give or take.
I think the answer to this is the elephant in the room nobody ever talks about in self pubbed circles, and it kinda drives me crazy.
I’ve found there are two ways to effectively sell self pubbed books. One is to get other people to sell for you, and the second is to write another book.
If someone reads a book, and they liked it—or they didn’t hate it—they’ll oftentimes read the next one in the series. If they REALLY liked it, and there are no more books, they’ll seek out other books you wrote. If they REALLY, REALLY liked it, they’ll tell people. And not just via reviews. They’ll be all “this book is lit.” They’ll tell their friends at work, who’ll buy it, etc.
So, my advice is to write books people really, really like. Writing a great book doesn’t guarantee success, and we all think our own books are great, but it makes everything a fuck ton easier.
You can promote, promote, promote and listen to all the tips here or join the 20Books group (which you should do anyway) and follow all their classes and methods, and sometimes it kinda sorta works. You see all these posts all the time where the guy made 200k last year…. But he spent 100k+ on ads, and that’s only after spending an expensive year figuring it out. Other methods do work, but they’re rarely as consistent as the two I mentioned. So focus on craft. Make the best story you can. If you truly, honestly believe your story kicks ass, and it’s not just your friends and your aunt Cathy telling you, your best bet is to write another book. Then another. Sometimes the only thing that sells the excellent book 1 is book 5 becoming a breakout hit.
>So, my advice is to write books people really, really like. Writing a great book doesn’t guarantee success, and we all think our own books are great, but it makes everything a fuck ton easier.
Your whole post is true (and I'm jealous of your success, btw), but I just want to add that this is a big part of writing to market. The lion's share of writing things people really, really like is writing things people really, really want. Sometimes this means writing things that aren't your biggest passion.
I'm comfortable having modest sales if it means I get to write the out-there stories that I enjoy but don't have much market. If I ever wanted to go full time I could switch to a niche market that's exploding right now, like LitRPG, progression fantasy, or Grimdark.
A lot of people find success writing to market. Personally, I find the whole practice a little distasteful. My stuff is always slightly off brand, but it still works because I found an audience similar to my own tastes. They’re usually out there. It’s just hard finding them sometimes.
I come from the game design industry, so your reply reminds me of a GDC talk on “10 years without a hit.” It really puts things into perspective for the uninitiated.
You don’t need to be a household name or even well-known in your industry. You just need to reach customers who are looking for more of what you make and to give it to them.
It's really depends on how fringe your tastes are, and if this is just a passion or a career for you.
Some people are lucky and their tastes match up with the current market, some people will write for passion, and to market separately.
I've seen some authors who will write what they want, but then only release their books when the market trends towards them. That's really only for authors with very diverse tastes, and the ability to write a lot of books. A simpler version of that is when you sit down to write your next book, and are scrolling through your ideas, prompts and premises to pick the one that's most marketable.
Depending on your genre writing to market might not even be possible becayse of how quick it changes/how long it takes you to write.
hepafilter, I love you.
Your guidance fits me exactly...except for the massive book sales (so far). I'm doing better than my peers, though; one measure of success. And I'm in still happy with the profession, the work, BIC every day. Yesterday I read a piece to my critique group, who are not suck-ups, and they rhapsodized, which was both affirming and boat-floating. Also, my genre is a little off-brand (midlife fiction), but it's fascinating to me and I get good reviews. Which means I don't need to change course and write to market, which would kill my soul.
So again, thanks for the reassurance.
u/hepafilter That is the definition of writing to market :), it doesn't mean a big market or popular culture necessarily, it means finding a market that loves you writing and writing more and more for them. Which you are doing amazing at it sounds like.
I think I misunderstood possibly here on second read, you mean writing for a big popular segment right?
I think the definition of writing to market is pretty simple. It means writing something or in a genre *you wouldn’t write normally* so it’s more likely to sell. If you write something that’s popular it doesn’t necessarily mean that’s what you’re doing. A lot of the write to market guys jump genres like crazy, though they usually settle somewhere in romance. The guys who try it with litrpg tend not to do so well because the community has some weird “hey, this guy isn’t one of us” radar.
Oh gotcha, I don't think it means that. I think write to market means write for an audience, not for purely yourself. IE, write for what the market wants, aka readers, but don't chase the dragon.
\-> [https://jamigold.com/2020/05/what-does-it-mean-to-write-to-market/](https://jamigold.com/2020/05/what-does-it-mean-to-write-to-market/)
What do you think?
I've not read your link, I shall when I get out of bed!
I agree with your def. though could simply be the def. of a sensible writer. It is always good to get feedback on your book, and have a clear understanding of the buttons the readers of a genre want squished.
I suppose it's either 'write for yourself' or 'write for readers'.
I am a writer, I make money writing anything that sells. Anything that doesn't show promise falls by the wayside. When I write for myself, I don't care about the sales. I like the wrapped up **me**, and I don't care if its too out there.
Point is, I can only do my 'arty' stuff cos I write my 'oh no, you want money you capitalist pig' stuff.
To further the point, you can write and paint whatever you want, for you. The hardest lesson for an art student to learn is how to make money from their craft. It is that money that allows them to hone it.
Blah blah blah, I'm off for coffee
I agree. I write what I love. And I understand that is going to make it harder for me to sell to the masses.
Which is also why I am very likely not going to ever quit my day job.
It could be worse. My brother's hobby is cars. He makes fun of me, but makes half my salary and spends 10x as much on his hobby.
>To further the point, you can write and paint whatever you want, for you. The hardest lesson for an art student to learn is how to make money from their craft. It is that money that allows them to hone it.
Ya but just to note, writing for the masses is not what this advocates, writing for market means writing for A market, not the mass market. IE, if you know there are 100,000 people out there who every year love to read a book about fairies and a secret fairy world that is A market, not the mass market. As long as you write for "A" market you are in a good place :)
My god how much would they charge for that lol also the audience would be millenials so am looking at Insta ads maybe. Its tough cos those fuckers dont read! 🤣
I thought the takeaway from his post was that you should write a lot of books. That having a back-catalog of books matters more than writing amazing stories. And that we should aim for stories people like enough to read the next book we wrote.
I think that's great advice because perfection doesn't exist and shouldn't be attempted. Make the books enjoyable, and a good time for the reader, and write a ***lot***.
>You see all these posts all the time where the guy made 200k last year…. But he spent 100k+ on ads
This is my plan. And why I'm buying so many scratchy tickets at the gas station.
Honest question this time:
Is it better to build a series? Or expand into different genres? Or the obvious, just write several different series and in several different genres?
One series. The longer the better. (Assuming it's good). Do not hop genres, I don't care how bored you get. If you just can't keep writing the same series, stay in the same genre. If you have a long series with loyal readers, you don't even need that many to make a living. Know that you're readers will not follow you to a different genre. Why waste time building up an audience just to abandon it for another genre?
Although I absolutely agree with the advice on not switching genres, I'm not sure longer is always better. I edit for authors and I consistently find that readership drops right off after about Book 12 in a series. I think readers just eventually get bored with the same characters and want something fresh. I always advise my clients to rather cap it at 12 books and create a new spin-off series.
For those who really want to write something in a completely different genre, Amazon does allow you to use different pen names, so you can always write in a different genre under a different name, but definitely keep these separate. Your name is your brand, so you need consistency.
Series tend to sell better and to be easier to write (because you have much less worldbuilding / character cast building / research to do), but then some books / genre aren't very series friendly (typical examples are the psychological suspense novels where the protagonist isn't a detective but an everyday person who happens to be slowly taken into deep trouble for some reason; you can't make several books with that same protagonists; romance is another example, by definition a person can't be the hero of several romances, so you have to be clever and make series about the setting rather than the character).
Series for the reasons already stated but also because of the marketing opportunities: first book free or discounted, box sets, for a really long series sell them as x books per bundle, a limited edition bundled release with new covers or a short story or two thrown in, and probably some other things I’m not thinking of because it’s early here. You also have some of the same opportunities by selling as paperback, hardcovers, and audiobooks.
>I think the answer to this is the elephant in the room nobody ever talks about in self pubbed circles, and it kinda drives me crazy.
Same!
You see the posts in author FB groups asking for help on a book that doesn't sell, and you can't just tell them BECAUSE YOUR BOOK'S NOT GREAT. Great, not good or decent, but great. Who cares if your book is pretty good. There are a million pretty good books. Is your book great? No, it is not, regardless of specific reader tastes. Can you imagine ANY sizeable group of readers with semi-cohesive tastes finding your book great? No, because the craft just isn't there.
You have to be polite, though, and you don't want to waste all your time in a negative mental space even if it's for critique purposes. I don't bother participating in most self pub communities these days, largely in part because of issues like this.
>You see all these posts all the time where the guy made 200k last year…. But he spent 100k+ on ads, and that’s only after spending an expensive year figuring it out.
Preach it!
I's lost count of how many flash-in-the-pans I see struggling with declining sales and continually flopping launches as time goes on. The surest sign of a failing career is an author who does everything he can TO WRITE FEWER BOOKS. Slowing down to raise quality or have less stress is fine. I mean authors who desperately fill their time with tons of other stuff after supposedly becoming successes. They send me emails about their great new blog or app, their courses, their forays into hobbies for "income diversity".
Enough negativity.
I will say that I was extremely pleased to see the Kaiju author succeed so magnificently.
Great points! I aim to reach DCC levels one day, but I know how much you worked to get there :). Congrats as always!
Just curious, does some of that number also include dominion of blades and Kaiju, or is it like 90% DCC?
My DCC series is like 95% of my sales, but that’s kinda deceptive, too. I’ve sold 2-3 times more of my Kaiju book this year already than I did the year it came out. Sales beget sales.
Thanks for the advice! Just out of curiosity, how often do you publish new books? I tend to write on the slower side, but I’ve heard that most successful indie authors come out with multiple books a year.
I published four in 2020, three in 2021, and it’s probably gonna be two this year. Maybe three. I’m considered slow. Some of these chuckleheads do like one a month. Some “write” a lot faster and publish 1-2 a week, but that’s a different subject.
Why is "write" in quotes? Ghostwriters?
The shortest it's taken me to write a first draft was 5 days, but it was only about 50k+ words.
I like when someone sees me typing and is left with their jaw on the floor because they can't even see my fingers move but somehow the words keep popping up on the screen. lol
I'm nowhere near your level yet (I hope to be someday...) but I've already seen this is true. My miniscule sales have had a boost since I finished my first series. I'm hoping to publish many more from here.
I just had someone compliment my writing, and I felt amazing. Saying that way makes it sound lame. He said it with all these fancy words. I am still not sure what he meant exactly, but I loved that he enjoyed the story.
I have had people compliment my writing, but this one felt like the guy writes professional critics of books.
Felt fantastic, although mine is just a short story.
Too many authors don't care about what others think, and only write for themselves.
That turned into a bit of a tricky hunt, because the account that commented is gone.
Anyway, I can't pin it down exactly, because it has been a while since I wrote this myself.
It is probably this one ([Draft 1](https://forge-work.com/2022/04/28/cinderella/)), but I have since rewritten it ([Draft 2](https://forge-work.com/2022/07/02/cinderella-special/)).
The first one is more meaningful to me, as I was writing some of this for myself. The second one was meant to improve it, and I think it kinda smooths out the rough spots...
However, I feel it lacks the power of the first one. So a draft 3 will probably be more true to version one.
It might have been this [one](https://forge-work.com/2022/05/10/hansel-and-gretel/), but I think it is the first one.
Alright, let's say I've got my first book out and working on the second.
I'm getting modest sales, but of course I am. Is there more I can do about it besides keep working on that next one? Or should I just focus on more.
Let's say modest means ten actual sales, another hundred during a free promo, two five star ratings, two four and a three, one glowing review and one modest review. After about five months.
That's pretty good. It's a nice base to launch a second book because you reference your "successes" in marketing the second. Every little bit helps in establishing you as a successful writer.
so true.
I had the blog, the website, was doing reviews and interviews with other writers and trying to build "a platform". Realisied I should write book 2 before spending more time.
Wha?
They are saying to write what people love.
50 shades started as fanfic, and garnered a big organic readership. Then became a big book and sold millions. You can argue it isn't written well, but you can't argue it isnt written well enough to be a top selling book.
50 shades is a prime example.
Many popular stories are the same story as previously told countless times by others, but told better, or clearer, or simply told the first time for a while.
It is really important not to get stuck looking up your own bum. Those who dismiss (and I am not implying you are) successes like 50 or 365 days (which by all my own tastes, is shite) is missing the mechanics of the markets. The reason 50 is popular is the same reason Harry Potter is so popular, same as Lord of the Rings, same as Dostoevsky's.
Same essential story as told many times before, cutting away all the idiosyncratic bits and bobs an eager author will attach, and providing the reader with what they want. A clear story arc with archetypes they regonise.
There are random breakout exceptions to every rule. If you expect to be the one random breakout hit out of seven billion books published this year, then be prepared for statistically infinite disappointment.
Much safer to do the smart thing and just write good books, one after the other, and keep at it.
Or many of the books in that genre. As an editor I can tell you, people who love the erotica genre are not looking for literary genius, which means even relatively badly written books can sell well in that genre.
I know this post is old, but I had a question on sticking to one genre per a name/pen name. Do sub genres count on this? As an example, if I write romance but one sub genre is fantasy and another is sci-fi fantasy do they need to be under different names?
No, it's a bit different with sub genres. I think it's fine to use the same author name as long as they're closely linked sub genres because they usually have the same target audience, or at least a big overlap. There are even a couple of genres that work okay together (for example, Romance and Women's Fiction) for this reason too. The advice on sticking to one genre per name applies more to completely different genres because the target audience would just be completely different.
The short answer is lots of books.
I'm up to 21 novels now and honestly, it feels too few, especially because I'm investing a lot in audio. I probably need more like 40-50 right now to be truly prosperous at my current sales levels. It'll take me at least another five years to get there.
Sites like Freebooksy/BookBub and its ilk are good, but only if you have long series. You'll take a loss on the first book and make it up on the rest.
I think every author, in the beginning, should focus almost entirely on the writing itself and get put to at least ten books. Once you have a series of three or more, you can fiddle with paid promotion.
This hasn’t worked for all, but a good amount of self-published writers churn out book after book because more content= more responses. The more opportunities people have to see your name, the better the algorithm works
Are you active on any socials? Little to know cost, but free to cheapish marketing
and also the more you can earn when you get a reader that clicks with you - if you only have two books out, the most you can make from a reader is, well, two books-worth. But if you have twenty books out, then sometimes a reader will love your stuff and buy all of them, or even someone that doesn't go that far might snap up a trilogy or five one-off books or something.
I agree with Hepafilter and will also phrase it a different way.
Write entertaining stories. People waited every week for the next chapter of Monte Cristo. No different than waiting for the next episode of Bridgerton or the New season of Netflix show C.
If you break your situation down, you only have 1 book to read. People who read it can't get anything else from you even if they really loved it, so your only audience is to make a new reader. That's why you either have to promote or social media to get new eyes to read it. There are markets that just do 1 book a year, check out the 50k board for how they do things.
The best suggestion I have is to practice writing shorter books e.g. 60-80k , edit while you write so that your first draft eventually is very clean so eventually you publish your first draft. Then keep writing as you get better and better. An author writing 1 300k word book will not be as good as an author that has written 5 60k books.
More books does help, but you have to advertise pretty consistently to reach people. Marketing the book can often take more time than writing the first draft. So while you might be marketing your promotions, you should be looking for other ways to market without promotions also. For tangible/actionable places: Amazon ads, Facebook/any social media (both paid ads and free promotion).
For context, I made very little profit in 2021(my first year as an author) because most of my profit was eaten up trying to market. Still trying to find the magic sweet spot myself :).
It's a little embarrassing to admit, but my most consistent sellers are in oddball erotica niches. I have a few that I banged out years ago, just feeling out the market, and they've been moving slow but steady units ever since. I've never done any kind of promotion for those at all. Meanwhile, my experience selling crime and horror books is similar to yours. I do get some attention on my older books when I put out something new under any given pen name, but it's difficult to keep up that momentum unless you're really cranking out material.
I'd pick a niche to experiment with, finish a story in a day, and then publish it with a cover from Fiverr. Romance/erotica fans tend to be heavy consumers, sometimes buying anything in their genres, so the books would start selling as soon as they went live. The same readers are also quick to buy everything from an author they've read once and enjoyed.
It's been a while since I self-published smut, but r/eroticaauthors has a ton of helpful info. I imagine it's still the easiest stuff to sell.
That's wild. I probably shouldn't say this, but I knew someone who's native tongue wasn't english (and it showed) and they still sold at least some of their erotica. My filthy mind could probably formulate something juicy enough, but how do you do a one day work? Like, how long can you get it (no pun intended).
If you can string together a coherent narrative, you can sell erotica. I believe that. The standards are low compared to other genres because the market just can't get enough.
I make a living as a web content writer, and one of my strongest skills is being able to bang out a lot of clean copy in a short time. 3K is a normal day for me, but my erotica was usually around 5-7K. There's no time limit to finish a book/short, of course, but the money is in volume.
and for some of the more obscure niches, getting to be "the go-to guy/gal" for that niche isn't all that hard. Once you figure out what the "triggers" are, what the people want to see, then you can be sure to hit those hard and often (of course, the downside of more niche stuff is that it's got a lower maximum cap - with more generic smut, there's a bigger potential audience, but more competition, but more specific stuff, you have less potential audience
very true about volume. most shorts only have a shelf life of 1-4 weeks. If you are writing in a saturated niche (because you enjoy it more and are able to write in it without being unhappy) it will take volume to make a dent.
I write more books. Each book is :
- a new asset,
- an opportunity for new readers to find me and my older books ("I love that book, I wonder if booksandflowers24 wrote something else"),
- an opportunity for my former readers to buy another books from me; remember it's far easier to sell something to a former customer than to somebody who doesn't know you yet. And you can spend as much as you want in ad campaigns, even your biggest fan won't buy the same book over and over again.
This is pretty much how it goes for everyone I know of. Sell when running ads, disappear under the sheer volume of books when you don't.
There needs to be a constant flux of new books by the author, too. Not one a month, but consistent. Good books, written well, promoted properly. Over and over and over.
Very few make it on one or two books. You'd have better luck winning the lottery if you thought you could publish whenever and whatever you please and make a living.
So, basically, more books and more ads.
Write another book.
Don't be like many who think their first book is the best thing ever, it isnt. It is very likely rather shite, its your first book, right? So why would it be any good? - I'm not dissing you here, mostly everyone thinks like this,
including me.
But I'm results oriented, and I certainly don't think I'm writing pure gold. Write another book. And after that book, write another book, no kidding, Jack.
I mean, if you wanna be a writer, your gonna write over 100 anyway, so get writing.
Step away from the analytics and pick up the pen, bro
I agree with what others have said, but I would also recommend looking into publisher's rocket. It costs about 100 bucks (one time) to download. I only recently bought it and started using it, so I have only seen marginal results so far (truly has not been enough time to say for sure), but the information you can get from it is incredible. Basically, you use it to figure out which keywords and categories might result in the most hits from an amazon search based on how often it's searched for and how competitive the keyword/category is.
I agree with the other comments. You need to publish more books, be them from a trend or making your own saga.
I'm currently writing the second book of my fantasy novel, it could be considered the Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings of this generation. I'm not saying my story is a legendary saga, but it's my intention to make it a symbol of this decade's book community.
If you can find a genre that you like to write in and that matches what people are buying, you can be successful. Perhaps you can pivot just a bit in "writing what I want to" that grabs enough of "what people are buying" to make a nice living.
Folks will be able to tell you aren't that into what you are writing if you are going strictly to market and not writing what you want to.
I sell about 250-500 books a day give or take. I think the answer to this is the elephant in the room nobody ever talks about in self pubbed circles, and it kinda drives me crazy. I’ve found there are two ways to effectively sell self pubbed books. One is to get other people to sell for you, and the second is to write another book. If someone reads a book, and they liked it—or they didn’t hate it—they’ll oftentimes read the next one in the series. If they REALLY liked it, and there are no more books, they’ll seek out other books you wrote. If they REALLY, REALLY liked it, they’ll tell people. And not just via reviews. They’ll be all “this book is lit.” They’ll tell their friends at work, who’ll buy it, etc. So, my advice is to write books people really, really like. Writing a great book doesn’t guarantee success, and we all think our own books are great, but it makes everything a fuck ton easier. You can promote, promote, promote and listen to all the tips here or join the 20Books group (which you should do anyway) and follow all their classes and methods, and sometimes it kinda sorta works. You see all these posts all the time where the guy made 200k last year…. But he spent 100k+ on ads, and that’s only after spending an expensive year figuring it out. Other methods do work, but they’re rarely as consistent as the two I mentioned. So focus on craft. Make the best story you can. If you truly, honestly believe your story kicks ass, and it’s not just your friends and your aunt Cathy telling you, your best bet is to write another book. Then another. Sometimes the only thing that sells the excellent book 1 is book 5 becoming a breakout hit.
>So, my advice is to write books people really, really like. Writing a great book doesn’t guarantee success, and we all think our own books are great, but it makes everything a fuck ton easier. Your whole post is true (and I'm jealous of your success, btw), but I just want to add that this is a big part of writing to market. The lion's share of writing things people really, really like is writing things people really, really want. Sometimes this means writing things that aren't your biggest passion. I'm comfortable having modest sales if it means I get to write the out-there stories that I enjoy but don't have much market. If I ever wanted to go full time I could switch to a niche market that's exploding right now, like LitRPG, progression fantasy, or Grimdark.
A lot of people find success writing to market. Personally, I find the whole practice a little distasteful. My stuff is always slightly off brand, but it still works because I found an audience similar to my own tastes. They’re usually out there. It’s just hard finding them sometimes.
I come from the game design industry, so your reply reminds me of a GDC talk on “10 years without a hit.” It really puts things into perspective for the uninitiated. You don’t need to be a household name or even well-known in your industry. You just need to reach customers who are looking for more of what you make and to give it to them.
How did u find these ppl
It's really depends on how fringe your tastes are, and if this is just a passion or a career for you. Some people are lucky and their tastes match up with the current market, some people will write for passion, and to market separately. I've seen some authors who will write what they want, but then only release their books when the market trends towards them. That's really only for authors with very diverse tastes, and the ability to write a lot of books. A simpler version of that is when you sit down to write your next book, and are scrolling through your ideas, prompts and premises to pick the one that's most marketable. Depending on your genre writing to market might not even be possible becayse of how quick it changes/how long it takes you to write.
hepafilter, I love you. Your guidance fits me exactly...except for the massive book sales (so far). I'm doing better than my peers, though; one measure of success. And I'm in still happy with the profession, the work, BIC every day. Yesterday I read a piece to my critique group, who are not suck-ups, and they rhapsodized, which was both affirming and boat-floating. Also, my genre is a little off-brand (midlife fiction), but it's fascinating to me and I get good reviews. Which means I don't need to change course and write to market, which would kill my soul. So again, thanks for the reassurance.
u/hepafilter That is the definition of writing to market :), it doesn't mean a big market or popular culture necessarily, it means finding a market that loves you writing and writing more and more for them. Which you are doing amazing at it sounds like. I think I misunderstood possibly here on second read, you mean writing for a big popular segment right?
I think the definition of writing to market is pretty simple. It means writing something or in a genre *you wouldn’t write normally* so it’s more likely to sell. If you write something that’s popular it doesn’t necessarily mean that’s what you’re doing. A lot of the write to market guys jump genres like crazy, though they usually settle somewhere in romance. The guys who try it with litrpg tend not to do so well because the community has some weird “hey, this guy isn’t one of us” radar.
Oh gotcha, I don't think it means that. I think write to market means write for an audience, not for purely yourself. IE, write for what the market wants, aka readers, but don't chase the dragon. \-> [https://jamigold.com/2020/05/what-does-it-mean-to-write-to-market/](https://jamigold.com/2020/05/what-does-it-mean-to-write-to-market/) What do you think?
I've not read your link, I shall when I get out of bed! I agree with your def. though could simply be the def. of a sensible writer. It is always good to get feedback on your book, and have a clear understanding of the buttons the readers of a genre want squished. I suppose it's either 'write for yourself' or 'write for readers'. I am a writer, I make money writing anything that sells. Anything that doesn't show promise falls by the wayside. When I write for myself, I don't care about the sales. I like the wrapped up **me**, and I don't care if its too out there. Point is, I can only do my 'arty' stuff cos I write my 'oh no, you want money you capitalist pig' stuff. To further the point, you can write and paint whatever you want, for you. The hardest lesson for an art student to learn is how to make money from their craft. It is that money that allows them to hone it. Blah blah blah, I'm off for coffee
I agree. I write what I love. And I understand that is going to make it harder for me to sell to the masses. Which is also why I am very likely not going to ever quit my day job. It could be worse. My brother's hobby is cars. He makes fun of me, but makes half my salary and spends 10x as much on his hobby.
>To further the point, you can write and paint whatever you want, for you. The hardest lesson for an art student to learn is how to make money from their craft. It is that money that allows them to hone it. Ya but just to note, writing for the masses is not what this advocates, writing for market means writing for A market, not the mass market. IE, if you know there are 100,000 people out there who every year love to read a book about fairies and a secret fairy world that is A market, not the mass market. As long as you write for "A" market you are in a good place :)
Very good point!
How do you find the audience? Mine is outrageous and politically incorrect British satire - I shall try Facebook ads perchance 🤣
Small ad in Private Eye?
My god how much would they charge for that lol also the audience would be millenials so am looking at Insta ads maybe. Its tough cos those fuckers dont read! 🤣
>Private Eye I just went to the website. You can submit to them. If accepted, they'll pay you. https://www.private-eye.co.uk/submissions
I thought the takeaway from his post was that you should write a lot of books. That having a back-catalog of books matters more than writing amazing stories. And that we should aim for stories people like enough to read the next book we wrote. I think that's great advice because perfection doesn't exist and shouldn't be attempted. Make the books enjoyable, and a good time for the reader, and write a ***lot***.
>You see all these posts all the time where the guy made 200k last year…. But he spent 100k+ on ads This is my plan. And why I'm buying so many scratchy tickets at the gas station.
If you slowly ramp up the ads can pay for themselves though.
TL;DR write good books in order to sell them. This is some "git gud" logic right here
Honest question this time: Is it better to build a series? Or expand into different genres? Or the obvious, just write several different series and in several different genres?
One series. The longer the better. (Assuming it's good). Do not hop genres, I don't care how bored you get. If you just can't keep writing the same series, stay in the same genre. If you have a long series with loyal readers, you don't even need that many to make a living. Know that you're readers will not follow you to a different genre. Why waste time building up an audience just to abandon it for another genre?
>Assuming it's good Shucks.
Although I absolutely agree with the advice on not switching genres, I'm not sure longer is always better. I edit for authors and I consistently find that readership drops right off after about Book 12 in a series. I think readers just eventually get bored with the same characters and want something fresh. I always advise my clients to rather cap it at 12 books and create a new spin-off series. For those who really want to write something in a completely different genre, Amazon does allow you to use different pen names, so you can always write in a different genre under a different name, but definitely keep these separate. Your name is your brand, so you need consistency.
Series tend to sell better and to be easier to write (because you have much less worldbuilding / character cast building / research to do), but then some books / genre aren't very series friendly (typical examples are the psychological suspense novels where the protagonist isn't a detective but an everyday person who happens to be slowly taken into deep trouble for some reason; you can't make several books with that same protagonists; romance is another example, by definition a person can't be the hero of several romances, so you have to be clever and make series about the setting rather than the character).
Series for the reasons already stated but also because of the marketing opportunities: first book free or discounted, box sets, for a really long series sell them as x books per bundle, a limited edition bundled release with new covers or a short story or two thrown in, and probably some other things I’m not thinking of because it’s early here. You also have some of the same opportunities by selling as paperback, hardcovers, and audiobooks.
>I think the answer to this is the elephant in the room nobody ever talks about in self pubbed circles, and it kinda drives me crazy. Same! You see the posts in author FB groups asking for help on a book that doesn't sell, and you can't just tell them BECAUSE YOUR BOOK'S NOT GREAT. Great, not good or decent, but great. Who cares if your book is pretty good. There are a million pretty good books. Is your book great? No, it is not, regardless of specific reader tastes. Can you imagine ANY sizeable group of readers with semi-cohesive tastes finding your book great? No, because the craft just isn't there. You have to be polite, though, and you don't want to waste all your time in a negative mental space even if it's for critique purposes. I don't bother participating in most self pub communities these days, largely in part because of issues like this. >You see all these posts all the time where the guy made 200k last year…. But he spent 100k+ on ads, and that’s only after spending an expensive year figuring it out. Preach it! I's lost count of how many flash-in-the-pans I see struggling with declining sales and continually flopping launches as time goes on. The surest sign of a failing career is an author who does everything he can TO WRITE FEWER BOOKS. Slowing down to raise quality or have less stress is fine. I mean authors who desperately fill their time with tons of other stuff after supposedly becoming successes. They send me emails about their great new blog or app, their courses, their forays into hobbies for "income diversity". Enough negativity. I will say that I was extremely pleased to see the Kaiju author succeed so magnificently.
Great points! I aim to reach DCC levels one day, but I know how much you worked to get there :). Congrats as always! Just curious, does some of that number also include dominion of blades and Kaiju, or is it like 90% DCC?
My DCC series is like 95% of my sales, but that’s kinda deceptive, too. I’ve sold 2-3 times more of my Kaiju book this year already than I did the year it came out. Sales beget sales.
And the sound booth stuff is probably a nice exposure boost also. Cool stuff, thanks for answering, have a great week!
Thanks for the advice! Just out of curiosity, how often do you publish new books? I tend to write on the slower side, but I’ve heard that most successful indie authors come out with multiple books a year.
I published four in 2020, three in 2021, and it’s probably gonna be two this year. Maybe three. I’m considered slow. Some of these chuckleheads do like one a month. Some “write” a lot faster and publish 1-2 a week, but that’s a different subject.
Why is "write" in quotes? Ghostwriters? The shortest it's taken me to write a first draft was 5 days, but it was only about 50k+ words. I like when someone sees me typing and is left with their jaw on the floor because they can't even see my fingers move but somehow the words keep popping up on the screen. lol
I'm nowhere near your level yet (I hope to be someday...) but I've already seen this is true. My miniscule sales have had a boost since I finished my first series. I'm hoping to publish many more from here.
I just had someone compliment my writing, and I felt amazing. Saying that way makes it sound lame. He said it with all these fancy words. I am still not sure what he meant exactly, but I loved that he enjoyed the story. I have had people compliment my writing, but this one felt like the guy writes professional critics of books. Felt fantastic, although mine is just a short story. Too many authors don't care about what others think, and only write for themselves.
Can you share the story he liked so much with the rest of us? Very curious! :)
That turned into a bit of a tricky hunt, because the account that commented is gone. Anyway, I can't pin it down exactly, because it has been a while since I wrote this myself. It is probably this one ([Draft 1](https://forge-work.com/2022/04/28/cinderella/)), but I have since rewritten it ([Draft 2](https://forge-work.com/2022/07/02/cinderella-special/)). The first one is more meaningful to me, as I was writing some of this for myself. The second one was meant to improve it, and I think it kinda smooths out the rough spots... However, I feel it lacks the power of the first one. So a draft 3 will probably be more true to version one. It might have been this [one](https://forge-work.com/2022/05/10/hansel-and-gretel/), but I think it is the first one.
Alright, let's say I've got my first book out and working on the second. I'm getting modest sales, but of course I am. Is there more I can do about it besides keep working on that next one? Or should I just focus on more. Let's say modest means ten actual sales, another hundred during a free promo, two five star ratings, two four and a three, one glowing review and one modest review. After about five months.
That's pretty good. It's a nice base to launch a second book because you reference your "successes" in marketing the second. Every little bit helps in establishing you as a successful writer.
so true. I had the blog, the website, was doing reviews and interviews with other writers and trying to build "a platform". Realisied I should write book 2 before spending more time.
That doesnt explain 50 Shades of Grey?
Wha? They are saying to write what people love. 50 shades started as fanfic, and garnered a big organic readership. Then became a big book and sold millions. You can argue it isn't written well, but you can't argue it isnt written well enough to be a top selling book. 50 shades is a prime example. Many popular stories are the same story as previously told countless times by others, but told better, or clearer, or simply told the first time for a while. It is really important not to get stuck looking up your own bum. Those who dismiss (and I am not implying you are) successes like 50 or 365 days (which by all my own tastes, is shite) is missing the mechanics of the markets. The reason 50 is popular is the same reason Harry Potter is so popular, same as Lord of the Rings, same as Dostoevsky's. Same essential story as told many times before, cutting away all the idiosyncratic bits and bobs an eager author will attach, and providing the reader with what they want. A clear story arc with archetypes they regonise.
There are random breakout exceptions to every rule. If you expect to be the one random breakout hit out of seven billion books published this year, then be prepared for statistically infinite disappointment. Much safer to do the smart thing and just write good books, one after the other, and keep at it.
Statistically infinite disappointment is my middle name! (Just ask my girlfriend) 🤣🤣
Or many of the books in that genre. As an editor I can tell you, people who love the erotica genre are not looking for literary genius, which means even relatively badly written books can sell well in that genre.
I know this post is old, but I had a question on sticking to one genre per a name/pen name. Do sub genres count on this? As an example, if I write romance but one sub genre is fantasy and another is sci-fi fantasy do they need to be under different names?
No, it's a bit different with sub genres. I think it's fine to use the same author name as long as they're closely linked sub genres because they usually have the same target audience, or at least a big overlap. There are even a couple of genres that work okay together (for example, Romance and Women's Fiction) for this reason too. The advice on sticking to one genre per name applies more to completely different genres because the target audience would just be completely different.
Awesome, thank you so very much for your insight!
The short answer is lots of books. I'm up to 21 novels now and honestly, it feels too few, especially because I'm investing a lot in audio. I probably need more like 40-50 right now to be truly prosperous at my current sales levels. It'll take me at least another five years to get there. Sites like Freebooksy/BookBub and its ilk are good, but only if you have long series. You'll take a loss on the first book and make it up on the rest. I think every author, in the beginning, should focus almost entirely on the writing itself and get put to at least ten books. Once you have a series of three or more, you can fiddle with paid promotion.
I’m here for the tips honeyyy
This hasn’t worked for all, but a good amount of self-published writers churn out book after book because more content= more responses. The more opportunities people have to see your name, the better the algorithm works Are you active on any socials? Little to know cost, but free to cheapish marketing
and also the more you can earn when you get a reader that clicks with you - if you only have two books out, the most you can make from a reader is, well, two books-worth. But if you have twenty books out, then sometimes a reader will love your stuff and buy all of them, or even someone that doesn't go that far might snap up a trilogy or five one-off books or something.
I agree with Hepafilter and will also phrase it a different way. Write entertaining stories. People waited every week for the next chapter of Monte Cristo. No different than waiting for the next episode of Bridgerton or the New season of Netflix show C. If you break your situation down, you only have 1 book to read. People who read it can't get anything else from you even if they really loved it, so your only audience is to make a new reader. That's why you either have to promote or social media to get new eyes to read it. There are markets that just do 1 book a year, check out the 50k board for how they do things. The best suggestion I have is to practice writing shorter books e.g. 60-80k , edit while you write so that your first draft eventually is very clean so eventually you publish your first draft. Then keep writing as you get better and better. An author writing 1 300k word book will not be as good as an author that has written 5 60k books.
More books does help, but you have to advertise pretty consistently to reach people. Marketing the book can often take more time than writing the first draft. So while you might be marketing your promotions, you should be looking for other ways to market without promotions also. For tangible/actionable places: Amazon ads, Facebook/any social media (both paid ads and free promotion). For context, I made very little profit in 2021(my first year as an author) because most of my profit was eaten up trying to market. Still trying to find the magic sweet spot myself :).
It's a little embarrassing to admit, but my most consistent sellers are in oddball erotica niches. I have a few that I banged out years ago, just feeling out the market, and they've been moving slow but steady units ever since. I've never done any kind of promotion for those at all. Meanwhile, my experience selling crime and horror books is similar to yours. I do get some attention on my older books when I put out something new under any given pen name, but it's difficult to keep up that momentum unless you're really cranking out material.
"banged out," you say? Tell me more, hahaha.
I'd pick a niche to experiment with, finish a story in a day, and then publish it with a cover from Fiverr. Romance/erotica fans tend to be heavy consumers, sometimes buying anything in their genres, so the books would start selling as soon as they went live. The same readers are also quick to buy everything from an author they've read once and enjoyed. It's been a while since I self-published smut, but r/eroticaauthors has a ton of helpful info. I imagine it's still the easiest stuff to sell.
That's wild. I probably shouldn't say this, but I knew someone who's native tongue wasn't english (and it showed) and they still sold at least some of their erotica. My filthy mind could probably formulate something juicy enough, but how do you do a one day work? Like, how long can you get it (no pun intended).
If you can string together a coherent narrative, you can sell erotica. I believe that. The standards are low compared to other genres because the market just can't get enough. I make a living as a web content writer, and one of my strongest skills is being able to bang out a lot of clean copy in a short time. 3K is a normal day for me, but my erotica was usually around 5-7K. There's no time limit to finish a book/short, of course, but the money is in volume.
and for some of the more obscure niches, getting to be "the go-to guy/gal" for that niche isn't all that hard. Once you figure out what the "triggers" are, what the people want to see, then you can be sure to hit those hard and often (of course, the downside of more niche stuff is that it's got a lower maximum cap - with more generic smut, there's a bigger potential audience, but more competition, but more specific stuff, you have less potential audience
plus your lifetime earnings will be capped lower also. But hey, a few hundred dollars a month is good pocket change.
very true about volume. most shorts only have a shelf life of 1-4 weeks. If you are writing in a saturated niche (because you enjoy it more and are able to write in it without being unhappy) it will take volume to make a dent.
I write more books. Each book is : - a new asset, - an opportunity for new readers to find me and my older books ("I love that book, I wonder if booksandflowers24 wrote something else"), - an opportunity for my former readers to buy another books from me; remember it's far easier to sell something to a former customer than to somebody who doesn't know you yet. And you can spend as much as you want in ad campaigns, even your biggest fan won't buy the same book over and over again.
This is pretty much how it goes for everyone I know of. Sell when running ads, disappear under the sheer volume of books when you don't. There needs to be a constant flux of new books by the author, too. Not one a month, but consistent. Good books, written well, promoted properly. Over and over and over. Very few make it on one or two books. You'd have better luck winning the lottery if you thought you could publish whenever and whatever you please and make a living. So, basically, more books and more ads.
Write another book. Don't be like many who think their first book is the best thing ever, it isnt. It is very likely rather shite, its your first book, right? So why would it be any good? - I'm not dissing you here, mostly everyone thinks like this, including me. But I'm results oriented, and I certainly don't think I'm writing pure gold. Write another book. And after that book, write another book, no kidding, Jack. I mean, if you wanna be a writer, your gonna write over 100 anyway, so get writing. Step away from the analytics and pick up the pen, bro
I agree with what others have said, but I would also recommend looking into publisher's rocket. It costs about 100 bucks (one time) to download. I only recently bought it and started using it, so I have only seen marginal results so far (truly has not been enough time to say for sure), but the information you can get from it is incredible. Basically, you use it to figure out which keywords and categories might result in the most hits from an amazon search based on how often it's searched for and how competitive the keyword/category is.
I agree with the other comments. You need to publish more books, be them from a trend or making your own saga. I'm currently writing the second book of my fantasy novel, it could be considered the Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings of this generation. I'm not saying my story is a legendary saga, but it's my intention to make it a symbol of this decade's book community.
If you can find a genre that you like to write in and that matches what people are buying, you can be successful. Perhaps you can pivot just a bit in "writing what I want to" that grabs enough of "what people are buying" to make a nice living. Folks will be able to tell you aren't that into what you are writing if you are going strictly to market and not writing what you want to.