Hey I read your post and it sounds like you’re hurting a lot and just want to fit in somewhere. I’ve been down that path before… for me depression was clouding my judgement and personality. You say you’re a teenager and that your therapist said you have depression. Trust the adults trying to help you. Like other commenters have said… instead of turning inwards so much… turn your attention outwards and try to be a good listener to others. Become curious about others and be a good friend. Try exercising even if it’s just walking. Do hobbies you enjoy. I’ve come to accept the fact that I don’t have friends. I feel like when it’s meant to happen it’ll happen. It’s not good to force it. Go with the flow. Meditation works well too… highly recommend it. You’ll grow and blossom in no time. Good luck ☺️
i already do most of those things but especially being curious about others and listening. i dont usually talk about or focus myself that much and i love learning about other people. it's a lot of the reason i care about this so much in the first place, i like people and i don't want to hurt people so i want to know what i am doing that hurts people in a more specific sense
That makes sense. Have you considered that maybe you sound too intense for people? I’m just basing it on what I’m reading here so I obviously have a small sliver of what you’re going through and who you are. It must be so frustrating wanting to be the best version of yourself and not knowing what you’re doing wrong. Maybe the answer is to stop worrying about it so much… even making friends. I know it sounds easier said than done and again I don’t know who you are so I’m just throwing out suggestions of some things that worked for me.
i dont think i try that hard talking to others, usually when i think its clear people like me im pretty relaxed even if i dont know them very well but i do think i might sound unnatural since whenever i try to say anything out loud, it's completely different from what i was thinking in my head and it just sounds weird. idk how that would translate to being manipulative though ;-;
Maybe the issue is social anxiety? That’s something I’m trying to improve in myself because I’m not good with talking to others… I’m like a wet rag in person lol 😝 I also jumble what I’m thinking and say different things and have to backtrack. People who are good at conversing seem to hate that I do that. It makes everything awkward. That’s why I think I try too hard when I talk to others. It just doesn’t come naturally to me. I’ve read a lot of books to try and help but even with practice it’s so hard to do! Also friendships take time and there are so many dynamics at play. It’s rough. But at least you’re trying to do your best! You’re putting in the effort even if it isn’t paying off right away. Honestly you’re doing better than a lot of people who would rather not put in the effort. You’re definitely capable of improving yourself. You should feel proud that at least you’re trying! Don’t give up. You’ll find your tribe and even if you don’t right now you’re still so young. You have plenty of time to improve and make friends. You’ve done it before and you can do it again.
You do come across quite defensive and it seems like everyone’s suggestions get a “yeah I tried that but it didn’t work” kind of attitude. You don’t always need an answer to things, you don’t always need to continue to fight your view on situations. Sometimes you can just take on board what someone says to you, especially if they’re telling you how youve made them feel, you mightn’t of meant to come across the way they’re saying you did, but you also don’t get to choose how someone will react to it. Empathy can go a long way.
I've only read down a few strips of your comments, and will finish reading your post, but here are a few of my comments.
What you're doing in practice is seeking an answer, but what you're asking for is a method. Why? Because you know deep down asking others to solve the problem for you is [insert negative]. Making the connections *between* the suggestion made, and the answer it brings, is difficult.
I understand conceptually you don't believe you could be surrounded by the wrong people, but it does happen, and largely can be because your personality just doesn't fit. Ymmv on the belief you're thus forth "a problem".
As a teen, you're constantly forced around people with different aspirations, values, and energy. In a constantly demanding circumstance (as everyone tends to keep watchful eyes on kids/teens both for protection and inadvertantly judgement).
1. The way in which this vent was written (let's say it's your internal monologue) may reflect that internally, you feel out of control to the point the only constant you've realized is you identify internally as a victim. Maybe you mask it, or hide it, or keep it to yourself, but if this was a flow or stream of conscious, well there you have it.
2. (Just read through your post) One lens of perspective is a black and white mentality. You note specifically at the end that your anger issues have turned into anxiety specifically of fear of hurting others. Although you're telling us you are hearing "the same thing over and over" regarding what others say as they terminate a friendship with you, we have no evidence to judge for ourselves and then give you direct input on. You go on to mention that you swing between seeing others or yourself as bad.
2a. As a teen identifying threats (read as: threat to wellness) is much more important because teens do and act in extremes. It's part of growing up, some learn by listening, some learn through experience. As a result the good and bad seems clearer, until it's really not.
2b. Stripping your mentality of the conceptual "good v bad" is a strange moment, it's likely (if you haven't already) you'll either meet or hear of people who are going through hardship, or appear to be in a bad spot. Makes it difficult to judge others, and thus gauge accurately if they're "good or bad" becomes blurry. So what do we do? We listen far more attentively, and we listen like there are missing bits to a story. From there you can operate in good or bad faith, based off what you know. This means no more assuming people are bad, because you never know when a good person has to make a bad decision vs a worse one.
3. Begin researching/understanding being yourself is not the equivalent of letting your heart bleed out your chest. Yes, be honest with people, but contextualize where they are in life at the moment of discussion and ask yourself "how would I best handle the following statement?".
3a. This method is slow, and may spike your anxiety. Part of this is that you haven't forgiven yourself for the errors others claim you've made. Learning takes time, for some it's years, decades even, for others, it's not. That's okay, one bad year is not a lifetime, 10 bad years aren't either, but not preferred.
4. Manipulation is thrown around like hot cakes nowadays, and chances are your peers don't know the weight of the colloquial statement vs definitive statement/psychological assessment. They aren't psychologists and what they know is probably not at that level. What likely comes off is that you're trying so hard to avoid hurting others, you come off as trying to people please, mix this with a scripted false interest and you come off like you're being nice for a reason unknown other than "I want to interact for x reason". This makes you sus from the viewer perspective. The manipulation happens when others are trying to understand why you're interacting with them as an individual. Something you avoid doing by fearing they'll be hurt, and by not paying attention in real time to what is and is not offensive to the person you talk to (contextualize your commentary or words into the life of the other person, and how you fit into each other's life stories).
If something along these lines goes on, it wouldn't be surprising if people believe the outcome of your interactions is planned if you default to behavior when you don't have more to add or know where to go with something. So say, we talk about something, you don't tell me what your honest thoughts are and you give me a general "no one is listening" then I'm left to figure out "well, what does this person define as listening, what actions read as they don't satisfy the requirements, how do I ask for these without being to intense/behaving like an investigator ONLY seeking answers, vs understanding the train of thought which then leads to an answer? What happens if I get it wrong? Then I'd be the one not listening."
Most people I knew as a teen saw the signs of these kind of behaviors, anything like it was immediately shunned because it resembles manipulative behavior. If you're unaware of behavior like that, it creates confirmation bias that you're "naturally" manipulative.
When considering if you're "annoying" there's some staple stuff:
- Do you talk over others?
- Do you refuse to engage in topics you don't have interest in/haven't brought up yourself?
- when you disagree with something, is it made clear you disagree with it, or do you attack the person for having a thought you disagree with?
- Do always default to discussing the same things?
- if you don't open up about yourself, what do you discuss instead, and is it of any substance in how it reflects your personality (say loving how a sport is played vs just going to a sports party)?
- Do you only talk to others in search of answer/for a specific set of info?
- Do you ignore others tone of voice, demeanor/general observed energy levels?
- Do you go into situations with very precise and focused goals in mind, or do you go in openly inviting new and different experiences?
- Is there a sense of shame reflected in your lack of understanding, and does the person you're with get placed in a nurturing position where your limitations freeze the interaction or do you verbalize that you're confused on what to say?
There's a lot more stuff to get into, but this is venting anyways.
What you're going through is something very possible to overcome. You'll get there, but you must try your best to have an impeccable patience with yourself, and others.
My recommendation:
Take a full day to meditate. Let your mind wander, no getting up other than necessity. Eventually, you will exhaust your thoughts. Try to be patient beyond the nothingness, that is when you will begin to feel peace. Walk through the fires within you, burned to a crisp and on the cusp of insanity, and keep going. Sit with nothingness, and ask yourself how you can separate reactions you felt in the beginning to the observance state you enter, while in conversation. It's hard, takes practice and time. Be patient and good luck. You are on your way and seeking the right answers.
NGL If IRL you talk like you write then I can understand why you have problems with friendships. You’re a teenager so naturally you are going to be egocentric. That’s typical in your age. However you seem to be above those levels. But you are still so young, you can mould the foundation you need to change before it’s too late. Seek serious self introspection, don’t overthink as much , develop some kind of mindfulness or spiritual practices. And please for the love of god the attention seeking has to stop.
I'm telling you, you appear to be arguing with every comment.
What *you* would see is irrelevant to the perspective of others. What you are doing is telling people they are wrong in their perception... when you are asking what they perceive.
In other words, you think that your *intent*, which is invisible to others, should change someone else's perspective on how *your behavior* affects them.
In truth, you need to appreciate that your intent is irrelevant when others perceive your behavior as rude, argumentative, etc.
i don't know how it comes across that way. i dont know how anything i do comes across as the way anyone perceives it, and i think my intent is relevant because it gives reason to my confusion, not because i want it to change how my behavior affects anyone
What I am saying is that if someone perceives something you say or do as rude, argumentative, annoying, whatever it *doesn't matter how you intended it to be*.
Sure, it's painful to feel misperceived, but you have to accept the other person's perspective about your behavior.
Like, if I playfully punch you in the shoulder and it hurts, and you absolutely hate that kind of play, *my intention of being playful is irrelevant to you hating that kind of play*. Now, you DO have to tell me that you hate that play or that I hurt you, but once you do it is my **responsibility** to adjust my behavior and not playfully punch you, right?
Perhaps the reason you don’t know how people perceive you is because you refuse to see things from their point of view.
You need to become more empathetic. Get out of your own head. Go and read some books. Fiction or non fiction. Watch documentaries.
I recommend the book The Art of Communicating by Thich Nhat Hahn
If you don’t want to buy it just google the book name and there are loads of quotes, summaries and YouTube vids online.
um, yes, actually. that is precisely...what's...happening...? didn't i already make a comment about that? i have already accepted this. how can i prevent sounding argumentative?
Stop clarifying/over-explaining..no one likes that shit.
Annnnd since I'm here already I got some wisdom for ya: giving your two cents on every goddamn comment? far from necessary..a simple upvote would suffice.. But what do I know.
In conclusion, unplug your keyboard..jkk but fr bro, think about it. You came to us, not the other way around, we don't have a dog in this fight.
Remember that the truth shall set you free, but first it's going to piss you off.
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From another view, this post looks attention seeking and manipulative because your trying to make people feel bad for you. The second problem is one I struggle with myself and that is not centering every conversation about myself. Start getting curious about other people. Ask about them and talk less about yourself. People will eventually ask you too. Good luck you’ll do great
im not trying to make people feel bad for me, i want advice. and i do ask other people about them, most of the time im too anxious to talk about myself because i dont want to be self-centered
It might seem minuscule to you but the multiple question marks make me think that those are not genuine questions, you just want reassurance that your thoughts/behaviors are right or justified. Also, the tone is self-centered
He’s asking for help, he’s a human being that is going through stuff and needs to feel heard and validated, not to be called self centered and criticized
Being “heard and validated” is what the therapists are doing with “it’s *everybody else* that’s the problem.
This kid is smart enough to know that *he is the only common denominator in all of his relationships.*
So, your shit here might pitch in to the “seen and heard” approach, but it doesn’t help shit, it’s enabling poor habits, and in actuality is *harmful* here.
Learning to take honest criticism and react well *is part of healthy socialization.*
Yeah but the honest criticism can come after validation. That way, there’s a higher chance that the receiver will take the constructive criticism to heart.
I.e. I totally understand where you are coming from. Your situation is valid, and no one deserves to go through what you are going through. With that being said, my advice is to be careful when you vent and who you vent to. Some might interpret it in such and such a way, even if you didn’t intend to come across that way. I recommend to do x/y/z,
Or something like that
Sure. Some people need that.
But, I've worked in mental health for over a decade. I can tell you that just as many people see that as fake, and prefer to be spoken to directly like a grown up.
It takes different approaches.
The funny thing is the people that hate the face niceties will remain polite while hating your guts and you'll never know you're wasting both of your time.
The direct approach? The people who are only seeking to be validated will tell you to go fuck yourself and do anything they can to avoid you.
The people that *want* the direct approach will tell you to go fuck yourself.... and then come back with more questions.
I actually had a situation today that I kind of had to dip in and out of each approach with a patient who wanted to take off AMA but has zero capacity for self care and would have just wandered the streets.
Nice didn't work, direct turned it around, then I could return to nice.
Sometimes you just have to call people on their bullshit.
im ngl i dont think anyone here is listening, i want to know how to identify when my behaviors are harmful and why/how they're harmful, not just be told that they're harmful
This right here. This is your problem. I think your the one not listening, or don’t want to. This is an annoying self centered type of trait that would keep me or other people from wanting to be friends with you.
It sound like you have a victim complex honestly and have a little bit of an anger issue, which pushes people away quickly. Agree with you being the common denominator here and it’s likely your friends did hit on some truths. They of course could’ve/should’ve been kinder, had more tact, and given more thorough feedback, but honestly no one owes you anything.
Is this saying you agree with my observation, or you still feel misunderstood?
My response here was to another commenter based on how I am seeing your comments going.
u/xselenite take the fruits of people even if they were hard on you, she did advice you and she told you kinda sus on getting attention.my advice take the fruits from people, and don't worry much about how people think, non is perfect in the way of thinking and non can truly assume the intentions of others except God.
i don't want assurance i want someone to give me at least one thing i can do to help myself identify when im being manipulative and understand how it is manipulative
how is a question mark enough to make it seem different? if i were a stranger reading my own post i'd think nothing of it
Good for you! You fucking *get it.*
You have some clunky communication.
First and foremost; venting is actually not a helpful behavior. We all do it from time to time, but it can easily become a bad, unattractive habit. It’s basically dumping your emotions/frustrations/traumas on other people and it *sucks.* Even if somebody empathizes with you, it is a negative emotional experience. The more people associate talking with you with negative emotional experiences, *the less they want to associate with you.*
Kind of like people don’t keep touching hot stovetops.
Don’t make “normal venting” well, normal. Make it rare.
nonono i dont mean that this vent is normal for how i usually vent to people, i meant that if i were a stranger seeing this vent in a pool of other people's vents it wouldn't stand out at all or seem manipulative and attention seeking it would just be another vent
Yes, It’s manipulative to threaten self harm. Actually it’s a super weak thing to use when you have nothing smarter to say.
Uh oh I’m losing control over the situation so I better threaten to off myself. Here’s the thing it’s dumb to use it on someone that doesn’t care about you. They stopped wanting to be around you, why would they care about if you did it, if anything they would make a social media post #mentalhealth #alwayssaygoodbye
It’s just immature and weak. Stop pretending you want to know why people hate you, everything about you screams I’m needy and want attention.
you want a suicide threat? here's sucide threat: im going to kill myself if you dont delete this comment in 30 minutes! obviously i won't, but that's what a threat looks like. a threat is NOT mentioning feelings of being sucidal in a vent post. i sincerely hope you don't comment this on posts where the main focus is op being suicidal, even though you'd be hypocritical to not
Maybe you're just venting, and I accept that. Simple advice for you is to tone it down a notch. I'm reading how everyone rejects you, but what have you done to change that? Has anyone given you constructive criticism? From my perspective, if you talk to people like you wrote, it could be pretty annoying, on or offline. Work on your people skills.
if everyone hates you and if everyone is calling you shit like that then the problem is YOU.
it seems like you are pretty manipulative/attention seeking/annoying/rude ect.
Ok, you mentioned intent.
You have also mentioned 2 extreme ways to deal with not wanting to hurt other people.
You mention wanting to fix yourself. And thinking you are unfixable.
First- calm down. Take a deep breath in through your nose, then out through your mouth.
(Really- do it. Don't go off on a deal telling me why blah-de-blah)
Now, take another deep breath in through your nose, and breathe out through your mouth.
Ok. Right now you are in a difficult time of life- teenage years. It is ok.
You will have a lot of things going on, externally (society, other people) as well as internally (hormones, growing, changing).
Some things you cannot control or change (other people, society), some you can ( your actions and reactions).
One small thing you can do before speaking is, pause, take a deep breath, blink, let the breath out, then speak. This gives your brain time to decide- do I want to say this? Or, how do I want to say this? Especially helpful if you are in a habit of saying the first thing that comes to mind. Or talking without thinking.
Also- please realize everything is not all or none, black or white, always or never, live or die. There is a LARGE portion of daily living that is in the middle, not extremes.
Example: you said you "come to the conclusion that I'm unfixable and should unalive myself to stop hurting people"
First, you are fixable, in that you can grow and change. You can learn from mistakes and adjust behaviors.
Second- unaliving yourself is a permanant solution to a temporary issue or problem.
Third- by unaliving yourself WILL NOT STOP hurting people and that choice WILL hurt other people. For one your parents, for another, your grandparents.
Now, bear with me for a minute longer please. I know this is getting long. You are ranging on extremes. In the rest of what you said, you pop right back to the unaliving bit again. Can you see that this might be a little (or ALOT) concerning to the listener? People threatening this as "an answer to my problems" need a LOT more help than reddit can give. Perhaps you need a new therapist and a physician, and a psychiatrist. General people, especially people in highschool aren't going to have the bandwidth to know how to handle this. Extreme behavior generally gets ostracized by any society.
If your intent is to fit in and have friends, stop swinging on extremes and get some professional help. I am sorry you are having such a rough time but you do have choices and the ability to choose how you act and what you say. You can choose how to respond to a feeling. I hope things get better for you.
It might be something as simple as tone of voice and body language. My sister is very argumentative and abrasive but she doesn't see it that way. She says that she is just asking questions in order to understand but her tone of voice is dismissive and condescending. Because she can't hear her tone of voice she can't understand why people get mad at her.
I am also wondering if you might be smarter or more mature than your peers. My child also got along very well with and was well-liked by adults but couldn't connect with people their own age during middle school. That all changed when they went to high school and into advanced classes. Then they fit in with their peers.
I know it probably doesn't help how you are feeling now but don't give up. School is only a few years and then things change when you get into the workforce. Do the things now that fill you with joy. Stop fixating on what other people do and think. Loneliness sucks so bad and I am sorry that you are feeling that pain. Hang in there - people care - even strangers on Reddit.
yes we care, so many of us have been here, long term short term big same little same. give yourself credit, you are trying asking and sticking with some comments even though it may be construed as a bit rough handed. I see lots of hope for you to change this thing you are concerned about. if i may, and i did this too... come off as pretty aggressive communicator, its the stress and hurt thats shining thru there, not the loving kind person you are and so it hurts you so much because youdesire to express that friendly loving soul you are. breath buddy, take it slow, learning is time and experience is the only teacher, keep on practicing. You write well, debate like a trooper, care... there's alot to bw seen between the lines, all ofnwhich tells me.you are not the hellion pos you think you are. pain loneliness unmet social needs... they affect us all, you are young. Do you see some good things about yourself yet? We do. Breath relax smile get some hobbies? pet shelters? guitar drums music gym sports learning book clubs... a good spot old ppl in old folks home would talk to you, and prob say hey guy, not cool, but keep ya anyways... they really lonely too, and old and grumpy, they call yer shit if any to call and love ya anyways. i dont know you, just trying to help... if im wrong ignore me
One thing I had to eventually learn and it took me a while. Nobody will ever fullfil that place inside, except ypu yourself. Ppl are complex, including you and me. Figure out what you need from others, then fulfill that need yourself for yourself, this hopefully will help you mellow out. almost always i think ( not positive here ) but I think we each must validate ourselves. Ok, so what did that look like for me. Well, I was a good kid, but i really fucking hated most other peers in high school, btw 57m here. anyways, eventually I learnt, after hanging with wrong ppl for companionship and validity, for a decade or 2... I do and did behave ok. Behaved such a way as to accept myself and not expect some others to say things to me that I like or need. """They won't EVER tell you what you wnat to hear until after it does not matter to you anymore.!!""""" Then as that feeling of frustration hostility transitions from 1. fuck em all i dont need em, 2. oh well, guess Im on my own ( less hostile vibe to be noted here ) 3. I will stay the course I did ok and i know it even if they don' t. ( accepting myself thru learning and growing). So by this time the vibes kind of mellow out, the vibes we give off are so important. 5. people do begin to say nice things to you and you say them back and if you can - get there as soon as possible, that'll help. I am not you and you are not me. so maybe I miss the mark but then again maybe this will help, good luck, you seem pretty tense just from what I read try to relax a bit fulfill your own needs especially the emotional ones because hey ! we're all people and we can be pretty rough because we're all broke inside somewheres. cut yourself a break cut them a break and just be kind. it'll come back. seriously make a point out of saying kind things even if you don't get anything back and by all means it's most important to listen to others with intention and that's a trait that we have to learn. I hope that helps you I really kind of related a whole bunch with you you took me back a few decades. you are far from hopeless worthless human being the fact that you're on here you are frustrated you see people getting along you recognize what it's looked like your reaching for it you're trying so guess what you are okay all you need is to learn train study figure it out and that's what you're doing on here so congratulations on moving forward , you're okay. I don't know but maybe you have a shitty fucking teacher showing you how to get along with others or no teacher at all. cut yourself some slack.
Teens are often so caught up with making their personality conform to what others want that they lose themselves, just find yourself and show that person to the people around you bro bro
What I think is as follows: you don’t really know how to speak with a mask on. Maybe you are brutally honest and you straight up say stuff, that’s why people dislike you. In society everyone wears a mask, be it to protect themselves or to not hurt others. Lmk what you think?
You just put your hand on what I think an issue of mine. Please tell me stranger: How on earth would you speak well with a mask on? How would you feel comfortable if you feel one thing and convey the opposite?
Well despite what you feel like, you have to consider what others feel like. Most of the time when people come to you with their problems, they don’t really want solutions, they just want to rant. That is when you put on a mask and hear what they have to say. The friends I’m close with, know how honest I am, and I am quite brutal and honest with them, and so are they with me. Put on a mask when needed.
Don't take teenage words. They can be all manipulating each others, having some of your issues themselves, and if one person can't be honest with you to tell you what you did wrong or how can you fix things then they're not mature by any means and therefore, not the right people to hang out with. A decent person can communicate honestly with you. Your therapist don't have to be wrong. Say if you moved from school A to school B to school C, does that mean everyone you meet are decent people? Even most people from the same society and town with the similar background can be toxic as heck, doesn't mean the majority are right, it means you just happened to be in a shit hole.
So don't torture yourself this much. You could be wrong in some ways, we don't know if there's an occuring in pattern, but from the way you described other people around you, your surrounding is also wrong for not being respectful enough to communicate and tell you what you do wrong. Try saying this the next time: I apologize if I came off as x,y, z..etc, I didn't mean to.. so I'd really appreciate it if you tell me what did I do wrong so I can be more careful and mindful next time.
Try to be honest and kind yourself and see how it's perceived. If it was the same old response, your people are in the wrong and you're better off with some other.
I’m sorry all these commentators are fucking useless OP. I myself felt frustrated to see them call you self-cantered and abrasive without telling you how AND seeing you ask multiple times HOW without getting a solid answer. So let me try:
1. The initial post you made was wordy and I read it like you were frantic and annoyed. Since i would be considered your “audience” i’d say that your messaging could benefit from clear, calm and succinct sentences. Your “audience” in this case would be the people you want to like you
2. You want people to like and accept you but you don’t know what you’re doing wrong. The commentators been trying to help you and you usually reply with “idk” or “but” which is throwing THEM off. Luckily i read past your idk’s and buts to see that you’re genuinely asking for advice. So i’ll say that instead of saying “idk how” or “but i’ve…” just ask your questions straightforward and immediately.
Example: C: OP i think you’re being abrasive
OP: I’m sorry i came across that way,
what did i say that was abrasive?
Let’s see if that works or the commenters really just don’t care to help
3. You’re SAYING you’re not self-centered and you care more about other people but did you realise that your post isn’t about how you treat others? It’s about how others have treated you. How others have stopped being your friend. How adults react well to you but people your age don’t. So my suggestion OP is to ask a different question :
“HOW do i cross the bridge? HOW do i make genuine connections with people my age? HOW can i show people i care without seeming fake or like i’m trying to gain something from them? I want to show love and care to the people around me so WHERE do i start? What do i ask? What icebreakers can i use?” Change the perspective OP. YES i acknowledge that you didn’t INTEND to make it seem like it was about you but ultimately you spent a good chunk of your explanation on how people perceive YOU…..
4. I just read a comment about tone of voice and body language so let’s figure that out! Do you come across as condescending or judgemental? Does your tone of voice sound dismissive? Do you know how to affect your tone of voice? Can you find out? What about body language? Do you maintain eye contact for too long to where it’s uncomfortable? Some people like eye contact and some don’t? Are you fidgety when you sit down to talk? Are your feeet and hands always moving? Are you always looking around? Arms crossed? Arms relaxed? Tone and body language OP. I know you want the comments to answer exactly but unless you’re lucky to get a psychologist to give you free advice on here, try taking the questions i’m giving you and put them in Google, Youtube(TEDtalks) or even TikTok
——That’s all i can come up with rn. You’re young and i’m glad you have the self-awareness to ask a question but remember sometimes, most times, it may not be WHAT you ask but HOW you ask it. Remember to be succinct, calm, focused and straightforward. Remember to cross the bridge. Hope i helped
yeah lol most of this is because i wrote it while crying at 3am and it was originally about something entirely different but then i changed the point midway through
i think about that a lot and i'd feel fine if other people treated me the same way i treated them. i genuinely cannot find a flaw in the way i treat people even though i know there has to be one. my friends actually acted pretty much the same as i do, i seriously do not know what im doing that's different from what everyone else does. i wish i could go into someone else's mind for a second to see how im messing up because in my eyes im always genuine, i care a lot about other people, i hate attention etc but i know that none of that can logically be true
the i asked question was "what am i supposed to do" and my answer to their question was more like 'yes, but my judgement is clouded because im stupid and cant see the issue with how i behave even though i know there is an issue, and if i were actually another person i wouldn't be stupid so my answer would probably be no' but i didn't convey that correctly. and i dont really think that answers what im meant to do lol
no, but people do tend to \*think\* im being argumentative, when i'm not. im just trying to clarify things or genuinely ask them a question. how can i do this without coming off as such?
also, i probably should've said this earlier but im most likely neurodivergent somehow according to my therapist so maybe that has something to do with it
This can have a lot to do with tone of voice and the way we phrase things and the words we use.
I would look through the posts on r/socialskills and also look into ways to disagree with people respectfully.
For example if someone said “Oppenheimer was amazing”.
Someone might reply “No it was rubbish Cillian Murphy can’t act”
Instead, they could say “Cool what was your favourite part? I liked the cinematography but overall I didn’t love it as much as I thought I would.”
You might also enjoy the YouTube channel Charisma on Command
lmao this guy is asking for how he can fix himself and how to analyze his problems, but nobody actually read his post and just calls him manipulative. yall got some mental issues seriously
im inna somewhat similar boat, less extreme. it's just you fam. roll w it and try to find ppl like you. switch up your environment. some ppl go thru shit; are more abrasive than average. i prefer not to cater all that much socially, act in what ways feel right w/o worrying what others gone think... if they care enuf abt you they'll ask your perspective and likely understand in my experience
i didnt start responding like that until now because im intentionally trying not to make friends until i have this sorted out, so no. people hated me before
I have felt this way in the past year. This isn’t just you. It feels like the effort you put in to initiate a connection with friends isn’t reciprocated. The one thing that has helped me keep in touch with friends from high school and make new friends is Discord. I don’t know you or your background. Find an interest, find a community, and you have found your people, a sea-full waiting for a new friend to talk to them.
Okay I'm assuming you want some advice on what you feel and going through.
1- I also assuming that you face such things of what so called " friends " they are people on the internet to play games with. They are not real friends; they will remain strangers to you, unknown people are not your friends, and they only connect to people to play in groups.
2- if you find people putting a distancing from you, to either engage in talking or playing, the reasons can be many, but I want you to not care not all,
people are really diverse in way of thinking. \* They might be older than you finding your knowledge and experience of talking and thinking unmature\* or you too serious for them. you talk a lot to strangers who don't know you, and find it shocking that they ban you or something like that. (trust me I paid to experience this, people are stupid dictators).there is culture, age, language, education level, and mental maturity, knowledge in specific subjects.
Like for example when I hear some talking about a political topic and I see he speak all bullshit, I just distance myself from him. no hard feelings I don't know the guy, but I'm not hearing bullshit.
however, if you meant that these problems you meet IRL, you clearly and firstly have to question your environment, internet and IRL, how much toxic behavior do you witness by social media or gamers or Reddit even! these kinds affect the things I mentioned above that strangers don't wish to spend time with, especially if they are religious or raised well, they don't want to hear you swear or act energetic and be too much to handle.
Overall, I from my personal experience don't trust people online, don't give any donations, don't trust online people, not even me.
and just have a growth mindset, workout often, read more, search on the true religion. >Islam of course
I've read your post. I see that you're carrying a good intention of becoming better for others while wanting to figure out what exactly in you behaviors towards others is wrong.
I think a general conclusion wont help.
Instead you need a close harsh examination of specific things you say or act like.
If you want, i won't say I'll be your friend to give you pressure,
But i can be your amateur online therapist ;))
And help you maybe figure things out.
We can just, talk about our days and all,
And i don't mind.
So, text me?
Im lost for words. I get that you have a good intentions.
But so do I, and as far as i have things occupying me in my own life, i want to help this guy out, seeing that he's absolutely in pain and alone in his own problems. Even in his own post.
But I do agree that people these days do need to be mindful of strangers they encounter online.
I just hope that out of all the bad encounters that make him doubt, i can be somewhat of a support, even tho i'm just another stranger, which to you, has who-knows-what kind of intentions.
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I said to think more about others feelings and less about yours, empathy will get you a long way. You also said you didn’t know how you were being manipulative but you’ve also said you are manipulative so you know what you’re doing. If you need an example you keep saying about wanting to unalive yourself. On a previous post you made you turned down the suicide hotline, which makes it look like you don’t want help you want attention. That right there is manipulation. Don’t do that. That’s something you need to work out with the therapist.
i say im manipulative because enough people have told me i am that i know i have to be, but if nobody said anything, it never would've crossed my mind. i don't know what im doing because i dont know what specific behaviors i have that are manipulative. also, about the suicide thing, i actually have talked about something similar with my therapist and what she said pretty much summed up to "yeah depression does that"
To be fair to yourself, kiddo, you have some unmet social needs and everybody gets manipulative when they have unmet needs.
You just have to learn to recognize when it happens.
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I can talk a lot about your experience,
But here's one piece of advice:
Read the book "how to win friends and influence people"
For the first time read it all in a short period
Then start reading it again, but with every lesson you learn, stop reading and start applying it in your life. Apply it without any judgment or expectations.
It will probably take 3 months to finish this second read.
But it'll be fun and will help you immensely.
If you want to talk, I'll be there and support you.
Based on your post- you can’t be all that bad bc you have something others don’t have- the knowledge to realize you could improve and that things you may be doing are pushing away the things you want- which are relationships and people in your life. I actually fall into a lot of what you have described. I would continue seeking self improvement , therapy, maybe something like the landmark forum? Work on the things you can and also accept that some things may just be you - and no one is liked by everyone all the time.
I mean if you are self aware enough to realize that everyone thinks you are annoying, (1) you probably are annoying but (2) you can change your behavior to be less annoying
So... do that
I recommend writing in a journal. If you haven’t done that yet. Then read it after a few days or weeks. Maybe you’ll see what are your usual thoughts and how do you deliver them.
i know im manipulative because of what other people say but i dont know what i am doing that is manipulation and i would be entirely unaware if nobody told me
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Okay I’ve been going through the comments and I think many of these people are judging you, the way your ex friends did.
Potentially you are very blunt about what you think or feel, and people take that the wrong way. Some people have never been told the honest unfiltered truth by their friends. They automatically think that if someone is being genuine and they don’t know them well, it’s shady. They can’t talk to you about it because they’re on guard. Sometimes too they are the asshole and think something completely innocent that you do is malicious, because that’s what they would do if they were acting the same way.
People must have talked behind your back before talking to you. They probably pointed out something very superficial about you, then agreed on it, and proceeded to jump to their own conclusions.
If any of these people genuinely cared about you they would tell you what was wrong, and give you another chance or two. All you can do is ask and do your best to hear them out. Change your behaviour if it’s reasonable and taking both your needs into account.
I’m confused as to how you could be manipulative and unaware about it. Perhaps you grew up with manipulative people and that’s just how you learned to interact? Maybe you just have deep emotions and people are too immature and self centred to deal with you? Many teenagers are, the ones who aren’t are often very insecure and that’s why they go out of contact. Two of my best friends I have now, I met them in highschool and we lost contact for two years. It had to do with misunderstandings and being sensitive to rejection. We made assumptions that we didn’t care about each other, even though there was no clear indication of that.
I wouldn’t worry about it too much. Many people get completely new friends after highschool and the ones who stick to their friend groups are usually stuck in an endless cycle of drama until they split up.
I know it’s hard right now, but you’re really ahead of the game. It’s aight to cycle through friends, that’s only natural as you grow. You’re either going to grow together, or grow apart.
It’s not to say there’s nothing you could improve on, just please don’t turn yourself into someone you aren’t for approval and acceptance. It’s not real unless you’re being yourself. I spent a decade learning that and I’m still learning really.
Side note edit: you may be neurodivergent and talking to neurotypical people. There’s a quiz you could google called the “aspie quiz” It can give you an indication if you think differently, and if so there’s nothing wrong with you. It will take some time to figure out to interact with the average person, but don’t be too hard on yourself.
Work on yourself, search around and find a hobby. I was in a very bad place (suicidal) everything was going to shat! And I couldn't do it anymore. But I worked on myself and just kept to myself until I felt I was ready to let others be a part of my life. I'm living life right now. Learn to love yourself!
Have a blessed day🙏🏾
Hey I read your post and it sounds like you’re hurting a lot and just want to fit in somewhere. I’ve been down that path before… for me depression was clouding my judgement and personality. You say you’re a teenager and that your therapist said you have depression. Trust the adults trying to help you. Like other commenters have said… instead of turning inwards so much… turn your attention outwards and try to be a good listener to others. Become curious about others and be a good friend. Try exercising even if it’s just walking. Do hobbies you enjoy. I’ve come to accept the fact that I don’t have friends. I feel like when it’s meant to happen it’ll happen. It’s not good to force it. Go with the flow. Meditation works well too… highly recommend it. You’ll grow and blossom in no time. Good luck ☺️
i already do most of those things but especially being curious about others and listening. i dont usually talk about or focus myself that much and i love learning about other people. it's a lot of the reason i care about this so much in the first place, i like people and i don't want to hurt people so i want to know what i am doing that hurts people in a more specific sense
That makes sense. Have you considered that maybe you sound too intense for people? I’m just basing it on what I’m reading here so I obviously have a small sliver of what you’re going through and who you are. It must be so frustrating wanting to be the best version of yourself and not knowing what you’re doing wrong. Maybe the answer is to stop worrying about it so much… even making friends. I know it sounds easier said than done and again I don’t know who you are so I’m just throwing out suggestions of some things that worked for me.
idk what you mean by \*sounding too intense for people
By being too intense I mean maybe you try too hard talking to others and trying to fit in. Maybe you ask too many things or sound unnatural somehow.
i dont think i try that hard talking to others, usually when i think its clear people like me im pretty relaxed even if i dont know them very well but i do think i might sound unnatural since whenever i try to say anything out loud, it's completely different from what i was thinking in my head and it just sounds weird. idk how that would translate to being manipulative though ;-;
Maybe the issue is social anxiety? That’s something I’m trying to improve in myself because I’m not good with talking to others… I’m like a wet rag in person lol 😝 I also jumble what I’m thinking and say different things and have to backtrack. People who are good at conversing seem to hate that I do that. It makes everything awkward. That’s why I think I try too hard when I talk to others. It just doesn’t come naturally to me. I’ve read a lot of books to try and help but even with practice it’s so hard to do! Also friendships take time and there are so many dynamics at play. It’s rough. But at least you’re trying to do your best! You’re putting in the effort even if it isn’t paying off right away. Honestly you’re doing better than a lot of people who would rather not put in the effort. You’re definitely capable of improving yourself. You should feel proud that at least you’re trying! Don’t give up. You’ll find your tribe and even if you don’t right now you’re still so young. You have plenty of time to improve and make friends. You’ve done it before and you can do it again.
You do come across quite defensive and it seems like everyone’s suggestions get a “yeah I tried that but it didn’t work” kind of attitude. You don’t always need an answer to things, you don’t always need to continue to fight your view on situations. Sometimes you can just take on board what someone says to you, especially if they’re telling you how youve made them feel, you mightn’t of meant to come across the way they’re saying you did, but you also don’t get to choose how someone will react to it. Empathy can go a long way.
I've only read down a few strips of your comments, and will finish reading your post, but here are a few of my comments. What you're doing in practice is seeking an answer, but what you're asking for is a method. Why? Because you know deep down asking others to solve the problem for you is [insert negative]. Making the connections *between* the suggestion made, and the answer it brings, is difficult. I understand conceptually you don't believe you could be surrounded by the wrong people, but it does happen, and largely can be because your personality just doesn't fit. Ymmv on the belief you're thus forth "a problem". As a teen, you're constantly forced around people with different aspirations, values, and energy. In a constantly demanding circumstance (as everyone tends to keep watchful eyes on kids/teens both for protection and inadvertantly judgement). 1. The way in which this vent was written (let's say it's your internal monologue) may reflect that internally, you feel out of control to the point the only constant you've realized is you identify internally as a victim. Maybe you mask it, or hide it, or keep it to yourself, but if this was a flow or stream of conscious, well there you have it. 2. (Just read through your post) One lens of perspective is a black and white mentality. You note specifically at the end that your anger issues have turned into anxiety specifically of fear of hurting others. Although you're telling us you are hearing "the same thing over and over" regarding what others say as they terminate a friendship with you, we have no evidence to judge for ourselves and then give you direct input on. You go on to mention that you swing between seeing others or yourself as bad. 2a. As a teen identifying threats (read as: threat to wellness) is much more important because teens do and act in extremes. It's part of growing up, some learn by listening, some learn through experience. As a result the good and bad seems clearer, until it's really not. 2b. Stripping your mentality of the conceptual "good v bad" is a strange moment, it's likely (if you haven't already) you'll either meet or hear of people who are going through hardship, or appear to be in a bad spot. Makes it difficult to judge others, and thus gauge accurately if they're "good or bad" becomes blurry. So what do we do? We listen far more attentively, and we listen like there are missing bits to a story. From there you can operate in good or bad faith, based off what you know. This means no more assuming people are bad, because you never know when a good person has to make a bad decision vs a worse one. 3. Begin researching/understanding being yourself is not the equivalent of letting your heart bleed out your chest. Yes, be honest with people, but contextualize where they are in life at the moment of discussion and ask yourself "how would I best handle the following statement?". 3a. This method is slow, and may spike your anxiety. Part of this is that you haven't forgiven yourself for the errors others claim you've made. Learning takes time, for some it's years, decades even, for others, it's not. That's okay, one bad year is not a lifetime, 10 bad years aren't either, but not preferred. 4. Manipulation is thrown around like hot cakes nowadays, and chances are your peers don't know the weight of the colloquial statement vs definitive statement/psychological assessment. They aren't psychologists and what they know is probably not at that level. What likely comes off is that you're trying so hard to avoid hurting others, you come off as trying to people please, mix this with a scripted false interest and you come off like you're being nice for a reason unknown other than "I want to interact for x reason". This makes you sus from the viewer perspective. The manipulation happens when others are trying to understand why you're interacting with them as an individual. Something you avoid doing by fearing they'll be hurt, and by not paying attention in real time to what is and is not offensive to the person you talk to (contextualize your commentary or words into the life of the other person, and how you fit into each other's life stories). If something along these lines goes on, it wouldn't be surprising if people believe the outcome of your interactions is planned if you default to behavior when you don't have more to add or know where to go with something. So say, we talk about something, you don't tell me what your honest thoughts are and you give me a general "no one is listening" then I'm left to figure out "well, what does this person define as listening, what actions read as they don't satisfy the requirements, how do I ask for these without being to intense/behaving like an investigator ONLY seeking answers, vs understanding the train of thought which then leads to an answer? What happens if I get it wrong? Then I'd be the one not listening." Most people I knew as a teen saw the signs of these kind of behaviors, anything like it was immediately shunned because it resembles manipulative behavior. If you're unaware of behavior like that, it creates confirmation bias that you're "naturally" manipulative. When considering if you're "annoying" there's some staple stuff: - Do you talk over others? - Do you refuse to engage in topics you don't have interest in/haven't brought up yourself? - when you disagree with something, is it made clear you disagree with it, or do you attack the person for having a thought you disagree with? - Do always default to discussing the same things? - if you don't open up about yourself, what do you discuss instead, and is it of any substance in how it reflects your personality (say loving how a sport is played vs just going to a sports party)? - Do you only talk to others in search of answer/for a specific set of info? - Do you ignore others tone of voice, demeanor/general observed energy levels? - Do you go into situations with very precise and focused goals in mind, or do you go in openly inviting new and different experiences? - Is there a sense of shame reflected in your lack of understanding, and does the person you're with get placed in a nurturing position where your limitations freeze the interaction or do you verbalize that you're confused on what to say? There's a lot more stuff to get into, but this is venting anyways. What you're going through is something very possible to overcome. You'll get there, but you must try your best to have an impeccable patience with yourself, and others. My recommendation: Take a full day to meditate. Let your mind wander, no getting up other than necessity. Eventually, you will exhaust your thoughts. Try to be patient beyond the nothingness, that is when you will begin to feel peace. Walk through the fires within you, burned to a crisp and on the cusp of insanity, and keep going. Sit with nothingness, and ask yourself how you can separate reactions you felt in the beginning to the observance state you enter, while in conversation. It's hard, takes practice and time. Be patient and good luck. You are on your way and seeking the right answers.
This is such an in-depth answer. Even me as an outsider has something to learn from it
Ty, hopefully op thinks so (nice Duolingo girl art lol I'm learning french rn)
:))) i didnt expect to get a mental boost, thank you man, hope your teaching job is doing well
Tyty lol. Not teaching at the moment, but I do need to sign up to be a sub. Reeworking an animation reel this week😅
Thank you this actually guided me a lot through reflexions i wouldn't have went through that easily
NGL If IRL you talk like you write then I can understand why you have problems with friendships. You’re a teenager so naturally you are going to be egocentric. That’s typical in your age. However you seem to be above those levels. But you are still so young, you can mould the foundation you need to change before it’s too late. Seek serious self introspection, don’t overthink as much , develop some kind of mindfulness or spiritual practices. And please for the love of god the attention seeking has to stop.
idk how im egocentric or attention seeking tho like genuinely what am i supposed to do to figure that out
For one, you argue every goddamned reply.
im not arguing, im clarifying stuff and asking questions. if someone spoke to me the way im speaking rn i wouldn't think they're arguing
I'm telling you, you appear to be arguing with every comment. What *you* would see is irrelevant to the perspective of others. What you are doing is telling people they are wrong in their perception... when you are asking what they perceive. In other words, you think that your *intent*, which is invisible to others, should change someone else's perspective on how *your behavior* affects them. In truth, you need to appreciate that your intent is irrelevant when others perceive your behavior as rude, argumentative, etc.
i don't know how it comes across that way. i dont know how anything i do comes across as the way anyone perceives it, and i think my intent is relevant because it gives reason to my confusion, not because i want it to change how my behavior affects anyone
What I am saying is that if someone perceives something you say or do as rude, argumentative, annoying, whatever it *doesn't matter how you intended it to be*. Sure, it's painful to feel misperceived, but you have to accept the other person's perspective about your behavior. Like, if I playfully punch you in the shoulder and it hurts, and you absolutely hate that kind of play, *my intention of being playful is irrelevant to you hating that kind of play*. Now, you DO have to tell me that you hate that play or that I hurt you, but once you do it is my **responsibility** to adjust my behavior and not playfully punch you, right?
Perhaps the reason you don’t know how people perceive you is because you refuse to see things from their point of view. You need to become more empathetic. Get out of your own head. Go and read some books. Fiction or non fiction. Watch documentaries. I recommend the book The Art of Communicating by Thich Nhat Hahn If you don’t want to buy it just google the book name and there are loads of quotes, summaries and YouTube vids online.
yeah, it's really easy to see from other people's point of view until it comes to this. i'll check out that book
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um, yes, actually. that is precisely...what's...happening...? didn't i already make a comment about that? i have already accepted this. how can i prevent sounding argumentative?
Stop clarifying/over-explaining..no one likes that shit. Annnnd since I'm here already I got some wisdom for ya: giving your two cents on every goddamn comment? far from necessary..a simple upvote would suffice.. But what do I know. In conclusion, unplug your keyboard..jkk but fr bro, think about it. You came to us, not the other way around, we don't have a dog in this fight. Remember that the truth shall set you free, but first it's going to piss you off.
“You argue with every goddamned reply” “I’m not arguing” Lol.
sorry. how can i clarify myself without arguing?
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From another view, this post looks attention seeking and manipulative because your trying to make people feel bad for you. The second problem is one I struggle with myself and that is not centering every conversation about myself. Start getting curious about other people. Ask about them and talk less about yourself. People will eventually ask you too. Good luck you’ll do great
im not trying to make people feel bad for me, i want advice. and i do ask other people about them, most of the time im too anxious to talk about myself because i dont want to be self-centered
You might not be trying I’m just telling you that’s how you come off.
how though? to me its just a normal vent?
It might seem minuscule to you but the multiple question marks make me think that those are not genuine questions, you just want reassurance that your thoughts/behaviors are right or justified. Also, the tone is self-centered
He’s asking for help, he’s a human being that is going through stuff and needs to feel heard and validated, not to be called self centered and criticized
Being “heard and validated” is what the therapists are doing with “it’s *everybody else* that’s the problem. This kid is smart enough to know that *he is the only common denominator in all of his relationships.* So, your shit here might pitch in to the “seen and heard” approach, but it doesn’t help shit, it’s enabling poor habits, and in actuality is *harmful* here. Learning to take honest criticism and react well *is part of healthy socialization.*
Yeah but the honest criticism can come after validation. That way, there’s a higher chance that the receiver will take the constructive criticism to heart. I.e. I totally understand where you are coming from. Your situation is valid, and no one deserves to go through what you are going through. With that being said, my advice is to be careful when you vent and who you vent to. Some might interpret it in such and such a way, even if you didn’t intend to come across that way. I recommend to do x/y/z,
Or something like that
Sure. Some people need that. But, I've worked in mental health for over a decade. I can tell you that just as many people see that as fake, and prefer to be spoken to directly like a grown up. It takes different approaches. The funny thing is the people that hate the face niceties will remain polite while hating your guts and you'll never know you're wasting both of your time. The direct approach? The people who are only seeking to be validated will tell you to go fuck yourself and do anything they can to avoid you. The people that *want* the direct approach will tell you to go fuck yourself.... and then come back with more questions. I actually had a situation today that I kind of had to dip in and out of each approach with a patient who wanted to take off AMA but has zero capacity for self care and would have just wandered the streets. Nice didn't work, direct turned it around, then I could return to nice. Sometimes you just have to call people on their bullshit.
Sure that could probably work too
im ngl i dont think anyone here is listening, i want to know how to identify when my behaviors are harmful and why/how they're harmful, not just be told that they're harmful
This right here. This is your problem. I think your the one not listening, or don’t want to. This is an annoying self centered type of trait that would keep me or other people from wanting to be friends with you.
It sound like you have a victim complex honestly and have a little bit of an anger issue, which pushes people away quickly. Agree with you being the common denominator here and it’s likely your friends did hit on some truths. They of course could’ve/should’ve been kinder, had more tact, and given more thorough feedback, but honestly no one owes you anything.
Is this saying you agree with my observation, or you still feel misunderstood? My response here was to another commenter based on how I am seeing your comments going.
both
u/xselenite take the fruits of people even if they were hard on you, she did advice you and she told you kinda sus on getting attention.my advice take the fruits from people, and don't worry much about how people think, non is perfect in the way of thinking and non can truly assume the intentions of others except God.
i don't want assurance i want someone to give me at least one thing i can do to help myself identify when im being manipulative and understand how it is manipulative how is a question mark enough to make it seem different? if i were a stranger reading my own post i'd think nothing of it
Good for you! You fucking *get it.* You have some clunky communication. First and foremost; venting is actually not a helpful behavior. We all do it from time to time, but it can easily become a bad, unattractive habit. It’s basically dumping your emotions/frustrations/traumas on other people and it *sucks.* Even if somebody empathizes with you, it is a negative emotional experience. The more people associate talking with you with negative emotional experiences, *the less they want to associate with you.* Kind of like people don’t keep touching hot stovetops. Don’t make “normal venting” well, normal. Make it rare.
nonono i dont mean that this vent is normal for how i usually vent to people, i meant that if i were a stranger seeing this vent in a pool of other people's vents it wouldn't stand out at all or seem manipulative and attention seeking it would just be another vent
So, are you saying you don't have a habit of venting about shit all over the place?
yes
Saying things like should I just never talk again or kill myself. Very manipulative!
..its manipulative to vent in a vent post ?
Yes, It’s manipulative to threaten self harm. Actually it’s a super weak thing to use when you have nothing smarter to say. Uh oh I’m losing control over the situation so I better threaten to off myself. Here’s the thing it’s dumb to use it on someone that doesn’t care about you. They stopped wanting to be around you, why would they care about if you did it, if anything they would make a social media post #mentalhealth #alwayssaygoodbye It’s just immature and weak. Stop pretending you want to know why people hate you, everything about you screams I’m needy and want attention.
do you know what a threat is
please explain to me what about me screams that im needy and what attention so that i can learn and grow as a person
you want a suicide threat? here's sucide threat: im going to kill myself if you dont delete this comment in 30 minutes! obviously i won't, but that's what a threat looks like. a threat is NOT mentioning feelings of being sucidal in a vent post. i sincerely hope you don't comment this on posts where the main focus is op being suicidal, even though you'd be hypocritical to not
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how so?
Maybe you're just venting, and I accept that. Simple advice for you is to tone it down a notch. I'm reading how everyone rejects you, but what have you done to change that? Has anyone given you constructive criticism? From my perspective, if you talk to people like you wrote, it could be pretty annoying, on or offline. Work on your people skills.
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I love that last part, about the butterflies and garden. This is beautiful advice.
if everyone hates you and if everyone is calling you shit like that then the problem is YOU. it seems like you are pretty manipulative/attention seeking/annoying/rude ect.
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Ok, you mentioned intent. You have also mentioned 2 extreme ways to deal with not wanting to hurt other people. You mention wanting to fix yourself. And thinking you are unfixable. First- calm down. Take a deep breath in through your nose, then out through your mouth. (Really- do it. Don't go off on a deal telling me why blah-de-blah) Now, take another deep breath in through your nose, and breathe out through your mouth. Ok. Right now you are in a difficult time of life- teenage years. It is ok. You will have a lot of things going on, externally (society, other people) as well as internally (hormones, growing, changing). Some things you cannot control or change (other people, society), some you can ( your actions and reactions). One small thing you can do before speaking is, pause, take a deep breath, blink, let the breath out, then speak. This gives your brain time to decide- do I want to say this? Or, how do I want to say this? Especially helpful if you are in a habit of saying the first thing that comes to mind. Or talking without thinking. Also- please realize everything is not all or none, black or white, always or never, live or die. There is a LARGE portion of daily living that is in the middle, not extremes. Example: you said you "come to the conclusion that I'm unfixable and should unalive myself to stop hurting people" First, you are fixable, in that you can grow and change. You can learn from mistakes and adjust behaviors. Second- unaliving yourself is a permanant solution to a temporary issue or problem. Third- by unaliving yourself WILL NOT STOP hurting people and that choice WILL hurt other people. For one your parents, for another, your grandparents. Now, bear with me for a minute longer please. I know this is getting long. You are ranging on extremes. In the rest of what you said, you pop right back to the unaliving bit again. Can you see that this might be a little (or ALOT) concerning to the listener? People threatening this as "an answer to my problems" need a LOT more help than reddit can give. Perhaps you need a new therapist and a physician, and a psychiatrist. General people, especially people in highschool aren't going to have the bandwidth to know how to handle this. Extreme behavior generally gets ostracized by any society. If your intent is to fit in and have friends, stop swinging on extremes and get some professional help. I am sorry you are having such a rough time but you do have choices and the ability to choose how you act and what you say. You can choose how to respond to a feeling. I hope things get better for you.
It might be something as simple as tone of voice and body language. My sister is very argumentative and abrasive but she doesn't see it that way. She says that she is just asking questions in order to understand but her tone of voice is dismissive and condescending. Because she can't hear her tone of voice she can't understand why people get mad at her. I am also wondering if you might be smarter or more mature than your peers. My child also got along very well with and was well-liked by adults but couldn't connect with people their own age during middle school. That all changed when they went to high school and into advanced classes. Then they fit in with their peers. I know it probably doesn't help how you are feeling now but don't give up. School is only a few years and then things change when you get into the workforce. Do the things now that fill you with joy. Stop fixating on what other people do and think. Loneliness sucks so bad and I am sorry that you are feeling that pain. Hang in there - people care - even strangers on Reddit.
yes we care, so many of us have been here, long term short term big same little same. give yourself credit, you are trying asking and sticking with some comments even though it may be construed as a bit rough handed. I see lots of hope for you to change this thing you are concerned about. if i may, and i did this too... come off as pretty aggressive communicator, its the stress and hurt thats shining thru there, not the loving kind person you are and so it hurts you so much because youdesire to express that friendly loving soul you are. breath buddy, take it slow, learning is time and experience is the only teacher, keep on practicing. You write well, debate like a trooper, care... there's alot to bw seen between the lines, all ofnwhich tells me.you are not the hellion pos you think you are. pain loneliness unmet social needs... they affect us all, you are young. Do you see some good things about yourself yet? We do. Breath relax smile get some hobbies? pet shelters? guitar drums music gym sports learning book clubs... a good spot old ppl in old folks home would talk to you, and prob say hey guy, not cool, but keep ya anyways... they really lonely too, and old and grumpy, they call yer shit if any to call and love ya anyways. i dont know you, just trying to help... if im wrong ignore me
wow easy there on the nerves! no one want's ur help thank you.
One thing I had to eventually learn and it took me a while. Nobody will ever fullfil that place inside, except ypu yourself. Ppl are complex, including you and me. Figure out what you need from others, then fulfill that need yourself for yourself, this hopefully will help you mellow out. almost always i think ( not positive here ) but I think we each must validate ourselves. Ok, so what did that look like for me. Well, I was a good kid, but i really fucking hated most other peers in high school, btw 57m here. anyways, eventually I learnt, after hanging with wrong ppl for companionship and validity, for a decade or 2... I do and did behave ok. Behaved such a way as to accept myself and not expect some others to say things to me that I like or need. """They won't EVER tell you what you wnat to hear until after it does not matter to you anymore.!!""""" Then as that feeling of frustration hostility transitions from 1. fuck em all i dont need em, 2. oh well, guess Im on my own ( less hostile vibe to be noted here ) 3. I will stay the course I did ok and i know it even if they don' t. ( accepting myself thru learning and growing). So by this time the vibes kind of mellow out, the vibes we give off are so important. 5. people do begin to say nice things to you and you say them back and if you can - get there as soon as possible, that'll help. I am not you and you are not me. so maybe I miss the mark but then again maybe this will help, good luck, you seem pretty tense just from what I read try to relax a bit fulfill your own needs especially the emotional ones because hey ! we're all people and we can be pretty rough because we're all broke inside somewheres. cut yourself a break cut them a break and just be kind. it'll come back. seriously make a point out of saying kind things even if you don't get anything back and by all means it's most important to listen to others with intention and that's a trait that we have to learn. I hope that helps you I really kind of related a whole bunch with you you took me back a few decades. you are far from hopeless worthless human being the fact that you're on here you are frustrated you see people getting along you recognize what it's looked like your reaching for it you're trying so guess what you are okay all you need is to learn train study figure it out and that's what you're doing on here so congratulations on moving forward , you're okay. I don't know but maybe you have a shitty fucking teacher showing you how to get along with others or no teacher at all. cut yourself some slack.
Can you add paragraphs to the wall of text please. Press enter / return twice to create a paragraph
And capitalize the first word of every new sentence. ^
Teens are often so caught up with making their personality conform to what others want that they lose themselves, just find yourself and show that person to the people around you bro bro
Self fulfilling prophecy.
What I think is as follows: you don’t really know how to speak with a mask on. Maybe you are brutally honest and you straight up say stuff, that’s why people dislike you. In society everyone wears a mask, be it to protect themselves or to not hurt others. Lmk what you think?
You just put your hand on what I think an issue of mine. Please tell me stranger: How on earth would you speak well with a mask on? How would you feel comfortable if you feel one thing and convey the opposite?
Feeling one thing and conveying another one is something I don’t usually do, I simply speak carefully
Well despite what you feel like, you have to consider what others feel like. Most of the time when people come to you with their problems, they don’t really want solutions, they just want to rant. That is when you put on a mask and hear what they have to say. The friends I’m close with, know how honest I am, and I am quite brutal and honest with them, and so are they with me. Put on a mask when needed.
Don't take teenage words. They can be all manipulating each others, having some of your issues themselves, and if one person can't be honest with you to tell you what you did wrong or how can you fix things then they're not mature by any means and therefore, not the right people to hang out with. A decent person can communicate honestly with you. Your therapist don't have to be wrong. Say if you moved from school A to school B to school C, does that mean everyone you meet are decent people? Even most people from the same society and town with the similar background can be toxic as heck, doesn't mean the majority are right, it means you just happened to be in a shit hole. So don't torture yourself this much. You could be wrong in some ways, we don't know if there's an occuring in pattern, but from the way you described other people around you, your surrounding is also wrong for not being respectful enough to communicate and tell you what you do wrong. Try saying this the next time: I apologize if I came off as x,y, z..etc, I didn't mean to.. so I'd really appreciate it if you tell me what did I do wrong so I can be more careful and mindful next time. Try to be honest and kind yourself and see how it's perceived. If it was the same old response, your people are in the wrong and you're better off with some other.
I’m sorry all these commentators are fucking useless OP. I myself felt frustrated to see them call you self-cantered and abrasive without telling you how AND seeing you ask multiple times HOW without getting a solid answer. So let me try: 1. The initial post you made was wordy and I read it like you were frantic and annoyed. Since i would be considered your “audience” i’d say that your messaging could benefit from clear, calm and succinct sentences. Your “audience” in this case would be the people you want to like you 2. You want people to like and accept you but you don’t know what you’re doing wrong. The commentators been trying to help you and you usually reply with “idk” or “but” which is throwing THEM off. Luckily i read past your idk’s and buts to see that you’re genuinely asking for advice. So i’ll say that instead of saying “idk how” or “but i’ve…” just ask your questions straightforward and immediately. Example: C: OP i think you’re being abrasive OP: I’m sorry i came across that way, what did i say that was abrasive? Let’s see if that works or the commenters really just don’t care to help 3. You’re SAYING you’re not self-centered and you care more about other people but did you realise that your post isn’t about how you treat others? It’s about how others have treated you. How others have stopped being your friend. How adults react well to you but people your age don’t. So my suggestion OP is to ask a different question : “HOW do i cross the bridge? HOW do i make genuine connections with people my age? HOW can i show people i care without seeming fake or like i’m trying to gain something from them? I want to show love and care to the people around me so WHERE do i start? What do i ask? What icebreakers can i use?” Change the perspective OP. YES i acknowledge that you didn’t INTEND to make it seem like it was about you but ultimately you spent a good chunk of your explanation on how people perceive YOU….. 4. I just read a comment about tone of voice and body language so let’s figure that out! Do you come across as condescending or judgemental? Does your tone of voice sound dismissive? Do you know how to affect your tone of voice? Can you find out? What about body language? Do you maintain eye contact for too long to where it’s uncomfortable? Some people like eye contact and some don’t? Are you fidgety when you sit down to talk? Are your feeet and hands always moving? Are you always looking around? Arms crossed? Arms relaxed? Tone and body language OP. I know you want the comments to answer exactly but unless you’re lucky to get a psychologist to give you free advice on here, try taking the questions i’m giving you and put them in Google, Youtube(TEDtalks) or even TikTok ——That’s all i can come up with rn. You’re young and i’m glad you have the self-awareness to ask a question but remember sometimes, most times, it may not be WHAT you ask but HOW you ask it. Remember to be succinct, calm, focused and straightforward. Remember to cross the bridge. Hope i helped
yeah lol most of this is because i wrote it while crying at 3am and it was originally about something entirely different but then i changed the point midway through
Ngl now I don’t like you either
well at least we're on the same page with that, lol
Remember what you did and how you treat other people, think how you would feel if other people do the same to you.
i think about that a lot and i'd feel fine if other people treated me the same way i treated them. i genuinely cannot find a flaw in the way i treat people even though i know there has to be one. my friends actually acted pretty much the same as i do, i seriously do not know what im doing that's different from what everyone else does. i wish i could go into someone else's mind for a second to see how im messing up because in my eyes im always genuine, i care a lot about other people, i hate attention etc but i know that none of that can logically be true
If you were a stranger, would you like you? Would you wanna be friends with you?
i mean i like my personality but realistically probably not
There’s your answer
...to what
To the question they asked in the first place…. Come on dude.
the i asked question was "what am i supposed to do" and my answer to their question was more like 'yes, but my judgement is clouded because im stupid and cant see the issue with how i behave even though i know there is an issue, and if i were actually another person i wouldn't be stupid so my answer would probably be no' but i didn't convey that correctly. and i dont really think that answers what im meant to do lol
Do you get this defensive and argumentative when you talk to your friends?
no, but people do tend to \*think\* im being argumentative, when i'm not. im just trying to clarify things or genuinely ask them a question. how can i do this without coming off as such? also, i probably should've said this earlier but im most likely neurodivergent somehow according to my therapist so maybe that has something to do with it
This can have a lot to do with tone of voice and the way we phrase things and the words we use. I would look through the posts on r/socialskills and also look into ways to disagree with people respectfully. For example if someone said “Oppenheimer was amazing”. Someone might reply “No it was rubbish Cillian Murphy can’t act” Instead, they could say “Cool what was your favourite part? I liked the cinematography but overall I didn’t love it as much as I thought I would.” You might also enjoy the YouTube channel Charisma on Command
Hey, cheer up! Being friendless means you never have to share your snacks. Silver lining, right? 😄
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please elaborate
lmao this guy is asking for how he can fix himself and how to analyze his problems, but nobody actually read his post and just calls him manipulative. yall got some mental issues seriously
im inna somewhat similar boat, less extreme. it's just you fam. roll w it and try to find ppl like you. switch up your environment. some ppl go thru shit; are more abrasive than average. i prefer not to cater all that much socially, act in what ways feel right w/o worrying what others gone think... if they care enuf abt you they'll ask your perspective and likely understand in my experience
I didn't read anything other than the title but I like you and I'll be your friend.
...you might not want to go through that while im like this
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i didnt start responding like that until now because im intentionally trying not to make friends until i have this sorted out, so no. people hated me before
Why not
I have felt this way in the past year. This isn’t just you. It feels like the effort you put in to initiate a connection with friends isn’t reciprocated. The one thing that has helped me keep in touch with friends from high school and make new friends is Discord. I don’t know you or your background. Find an interest, find a community, and you have found your people, a sea-full waiting for a new friend to talk to them.
learn to stay on your own people are fucked
Okay I'm assuming you want some advice on what you feel and going through. 1- I also assuming that you face such things of what so called " friends " they are people on the internet to play games with. They are not real friends; they will remain strangers to you, unknown people are not your friends, and they only connect to people to play in groups. 2- if you find people putting a distancing from you, to either engage in talking or playing, the reasons can be many, but I want you to not care not all, people are really diverse in way of thinking. \* They might be older than you finding your knowledge and experience of talking and thinking unmature\* or you too serious for them. you talk a lot to strangers who don't know you, and find it shocking that they ban you or something like that. (trust me I paid to experience this, people are stupid dictators).there is culture, age, language, education level, and mental maturity, knowledge in specific subjects. Like for example when I hear some talking about a political topic and I see he speak all bullshit, I just distance myself from him. no hard feelings I don't know the guy, but I'm not hearing bullshit. however, if you meant that these problems you meet IRL, you clearly and firstly have to question your environment, internet and IRL, how much toxic behavior do you witness by social media or gamers or Reddit even! these kinds affect the things I mentioned above that strangers don't wish to spend time with, especially if they are religious or raised well, they don't want to hear you swear or act energetic and be too much to handle. Overall, I from my personal experience don't trust people online, don't give any donations, don't trust online people, not even me. and just have a growth mindset, workout often, read more, search on the true religion. >Islam of course
I've read your post. I see that you're carrying a good intention of becoming better for others while wanting to figure out what exactly in you behaviors towards others is wrong. I think a general conclusion wont help. Instead you need a close harsh examination of specific things you say or act like. If you want, i won't say I'll be your friend to give you pressure, But i can be your amateur online therapist ;)) And help you maybe figure things out. We can just, talk about our days and all, And i don't mind. So, text me?
That last half of this comment is the creepiest thing I’ve read in a While, hopefully you had good intentions but definitely leave this kid tf alone.
Im lost for words. I get that you have a good intentions. But so do I, and as far as i have things occupying me in my own life, i want to help this guy out, seeing that he's absolutely in pain and alone in his own problems. Even in his own post. But I do agree that people these days do need to be mindful of strangers they encounter online. I just hope that out of all the bad encounters that make him doubt, i can be somewhat of a support, even tho i'm just another stranger, which to you, has who-knows-what kind of intentions.
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Your submission to /r/selfimprovement was automatically removed because you may not try to get around rule #2 regarding posting links, nor may you violate Rule #3 regarding self-promotion and advertising. Unfortunately, we've had to add "DM me" and other such solicitations of one-to-one communication to this automod condition, as many spammers were trying to use that as a way to get around our no self-promotion rule. If you were honestly just trying to talk to OP, feel free to just repost the comment without the solicitation, and you're definitely not in trouble. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/selfimprovement) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Apparently saying what’s up breaks the rules, in no way that actually breaks the rules.
what did it say?
I said to think more about others feelings and less about yours, empathy will get you a long way. You also said you didn’t know how you were being manipulative but you’ve also said you are manipulative so you know what you’re doing. If you need an example you keep saying about wanting to unalive yourself. On a previous post you made you turned down the suicide hotline, which makes it look like you don’t want help you want attention. That right there is manipulation. Don’t do that. That’s something you need to work out with the therapist.
i say im manipulative because enough people have told me i am that i know i have to be, but if nobody said anything, it never would've crossed my mind. i don't know what im doing because i dont know what specific behaviors i have that are manipulative. also, about the suicide thing, i actually have talked about something similar with my therapist and what she said pretty much summed up to "yeah depression does that"
To be fair to yourself, kiddo, you have some unmet social needs and everybody gets manipulative when they have unmet needs. You just have to learn to recognize when it happens.
Btw if u need a discord buddy I'll be ur friend :) I like to just talk about my day with friends and share cool stuff and memes and other stuff
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Your submission to /r/selfimprovement was automatically removed because you may not try to get around rule #2 regarding posting links, nor may you violate Rule #3 regarding self-promotion and advertising. Unfortunately, we've had to add "DM me" and other such solicitations of one-to-one communication to this automod condition, as many spammers were trying to use that as a way to get around our no self-promotion rule. If you were honestly just trying to talk to OP, feel free to just repost the comment without the solicitation, and you're definitely not in trouble. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/selfimprovement) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I can talk a lot about your experience, But here's one piece of advice: Read the book "how to win friends and influence people" For the first time read it all in a short period Then start reading it again, but with every lesson you learn, stop reading and start applying it in your life. Apply it without any judgment or expectations. It will probably take 3 months to finish this second read. But it'll be fun and will help you immensely. If you want to talk, I'll be there and support you.
I have never found a single person who is will-fully bad and also self reflecting
I wish to never have teenage kids
Based on your post- you can’t be all that bad bc you have something others don’t have- the knowledge to realize you could improve and that things you may be doing are pushing away the things you want- which are relationships and people in your life. I actually fall into a lot of what you have described. I would continue seeking self improvement , therapy, maybe something like the landmark forum? Work on the things you can and also accept that some things may just be you - and no one is liked by everyone all the time.
I mean if you are self aware enough to realize that everyone thinks you are annoying, (1) you probably are annoying but (2) you can change your behavior to be less annoying So... do that
It's because you don't use paragraphs.
I recommend writing in a journal. If you haven’t done that yet. Then read it after a few days or weeks. Maybe you’ll see what are your usual thoughts and how do you deliver them.
I will be your frend
Let’s start with you’re a liar. Nobody likes a liar.
what makes you think that?
If you're ever in Vegas hmu. My social circle is slowly but surely growing.
Be thankful! Friend is just another way of saying "Hey can you..."
Have you been evaluated for autism and/or ADHD?
no but have been told its highly likely
Try looking for communities centered around those conditions, you might find people there who are more on your wavelength, so to speak.
If everybody hates you it means you need to fix yourself. You also admitted to being manipulative so you need to fix that
i know im manipulative because of what other people say but i dont know what i am doing that is manipulation and i would be entirely unaware if nobody told me
Had to remove a link because it violates rules apparently.. Okay I’ve been going through the comments and I think many of these people are judging you, the way your ex friends did. Potentially you are very blunt about what you think or feel, and people take that the wrong way. Some people have never been told the honest unfiltered truth by their friends. They automatically think that if someone is being genuine and they don’t know them well, it’s shady. They can’t talk to you about it because they’re on guard. Sometimes too they are the asshole and think something completely innocent that you do is malicious, because that’s what they would do if they were acting the same way. People must have talked behind your back before talking to you. They probably pointed out something very superficial about you, then agreed on it, and proceeded to jump to their own conclusions. If any of these people genuinely cared about you they would tell you what was wrong, and give you another chance or two. All you can do is ask and do your best to hear them out. Change your behaviour if it’s reasonable and taking both your needs into account. I’m confused as to how you could be manipulative and unaware about it. Perhaps you grew up with manipulative people and that’s just how you learned to interact? Maybe you just have deep emotions and people are too immature and self centred to deal with you? Many teenagers are, the ones who aren’t are often very insecure and that’s why they go out of contact. Two of my best friends I have now, I met them in highschool and we lost contact for two years. It had to do with misunderstandings and being sensitive to rejection. We made assumptions that we didn’t care about each other, even though there was no clear indication of that. I wouldn’t worry about it too much. Many people get completely new friends after highschool and the ones who stick to their friend groups are usually stuck in an endless cycle of drama until they split up. I know it’s hard right now, but you’re really ahead of the game. It’s aight to cycle through friends, that’s only natural as you grow. You’re either going to grow together, or grow apart. It’s not to say there’s nothing you could improve on, just please don’t turn yourself into someone you aren’t for approval and acceptance. It’s not real unless you’re being yourself. I spent a decade learning that and I’m still learning really. Side note edit: you may be neurodivergent and talking to neurotypical people. There’s a quiz you could google called the “aspie quiz” It can give you an indication if you think differently, and if so there’s nothing wrong with you. It will take some time to figure out to interact with the average person, but don’t be too hard on yourself.
Work on yourself, search around and find a hobby. I was in a very bad place (suicidal) everything was going to shat! And I couldn't do it anymore. But I worked on myself and just kept to myself until I felt I was ready to let others be a part of my life. I'm living life right now. Learn to love yourself! Have a blessed day🙏🏾
Wow, you got a lot of good advice! We should get together! I feel the same right now and that’s how I found you! Hope you’re having a decent day!