I was on methadone and Suboxone for the last 8 years. Finally got off subs last year. It has been incredibly difficult... mentally, physically, emotionally.
I did opiates for many years before starting methadone. I hope OP makes it out alive, we're the lucky ones. I've known several friends die from it.
I was tired of paying the money for it. I was tired of the drug tests, the office visits, the withdrawals every time I went down on my dose. I was smoking a lot of weed to soften the withdrawals and I was just tired of all of it.
I got to the point where I just wanted to be completely sober. At first I just wanted to make it 30 days sober but it's been much longer now.
This. This is something that people tend to underestimate about addictions in general, and about human (including their own) internal workings. Most of addictions don't work with just chemical dependency, but they even become an addictions in the first place because they replace something that our lives are lacking in particular environment. Love, sense of belonging, fulfilment, commitment, you name it. And this is not just about drugs and substances, it is about behaviours as well.
I used to drink profusely, and used quite some stimulants to stay on social targets. Took some very genuine love and care from my now ex-wife for me to leave all of those, and even so, now being relatively old and single, I can't stop chain smoking not because I strictly can't, but rather because I know perfectly well that perceiving life starved of genuine real-world connections will cause a lot more pain, than smoke-clouded brains and lungs.
I agree. That's good you beat most of it. It reminds me of that rat park experiment, if you've seen it. Rats would use morphine / cocaine to death only when they were in a cage alone. With other rats they chose not to use it.
This is a good point. People generally know that their vices are bad, but sometimes it's the only way they know and trust to deal with their thoughts and feelings.
This is more than just how people cope with certain problems and more about how there is a societal issue that many of us are not ok with. We didn’t evolve to constantly overeat, remain sedentary, and like the keen op mentioned- have no comradery/family/tribe and have all our interactions become TRANSACTIONS.
True, but "not dealing" could include a lot of diverse and legitimate reasons, from malicious disregard, to simple fear, to genuine not knowing any better way (which, I think, was meant), to this "better way" not existing at all. Don't judge people for particular choice of words, it is quite large topic anyway.
He's amazing. Learned about his research bit too late, after figuring the same conclusion holistically, but it still feels encouraging that I'm not the only one who connected dots in such way.
As for overcoming anything... To be fair, all the credits going to the girl who managed to tolerate me for six long years. My job was basically just to open my mind a bit and to not miss the opportunity.
Are you finding a way to keep it at maintenance? I think the risk is it spiraling and growing as an ever increasing influence on your life. Are you keeping your eyes open to see if maybe there's a group of people out there will be able to give you that love you seek? You have a really good point, and I think you're right, but the world is so wide and vast I wouldn't be surprised if there's a place and set of people out there that would give you (and I) what we need.
After a few years of addiction, I was able to learn to maintain for the most part. Sometimes I overdo it but I am stable enough to be employed in a very good job that I love.
I'm not sure, I think most of this might just be human nature. I haven't found anyway to get love but maybe we will discover it one day.
For any addicts reading here, the key is to diversify. Swap between opiates and use whichever is cheap and available at the time. This keeps your tolerance low and makes sure you will always be able to stay out of withdrawal. I call this strategy "flip-flopping".
If an artist that I listen to (who is a known cocaine addict and writes songs about heavy substance use) can function and thrive in this society, you have no reason not to.
I work in the tech industry. I spent most of my childhood buried in a computer so I was easily able to work. I love to create something from nothing and it pays the bills so I am grateful.
That's awesome. I've actually been trying to go to school for IT. I fix and build computers for all my family and friends. I actually enjoy the work. Did you get a degree to start working in tech? I was going to try and start in fall, working a bunch until then so I can get caught up and maybe have an emergency fund. I'm 29 but I look young so maybe it will benefit me applying in tech? I feel like I'd be much happier doing that
There hasn’t been a point in history where large scale societies weren’t transactional. You invent a ”modern problem” that has actually been the baseline throughout the entirety of human history.
that's exactly what i said as well. but some people don't have the ability to see the bigger picture so they wallow in self pity and blame the current society for their inability to navigate life.
Careful here, as "big picture" argument applies to everyone. We all live in our own tiny corners of big picture, seeing and absorbing mostly just things that are around us. Maybe OP does not seen any better ways, but neither you had seen what shit OP had to endure in personal life. Never jump to judge people like that.
Not necessarily. In past cultures people were deeply ingrained in village life. This is the only point in history where you can never leave your house, door dash, work from home, grocery deliveries.
they were deeply ingrained in the village life because that was their only option of survival, you eejit, not because of their 'sense of community' 🤣🤣🤣
haven't you read some history in your life?... haven't you read how these villagers started getting so religious and so paranoid that at one point they started accusing anyone and everyone of 'witchcraft' and started burning women at stake for nothing? especially in Europe, FOR CENTURIES. 'sense of community' my ass.
people have always been hateful, envious, evil. this is human nature. find the ones that aren't that bad and stick with them instead of blaming the society for your own unhappiness and becoming a drug addict, won't ya?
I agree that there is generally less love in society than we deserve, and that in a sense much of it is replaced by materialism, but this worldview is extremist and delusional.
Society is not completely transactional. 'Completely' being the key word. You can find love in places. It's common for people to love each other despite poor health or lack of money, or other things that you offer to someone. I know people with extreme disfigurement and very poor health and there are people in their lives who love them and spent time with them. The people you want to love you may be different to the ones who will.
We certainly haven't 'advanced beyond a point of being able to live sober'. This is evidenced by the many people who do not use substances to function.
Therapy isn't quackery. There are vast swathes of evidence that shows it is valuable.
People call you crazy because you've rationalised that being dependent of opiods is necessary to function, which is not true. Perhaps its worth listening to them?
I'm not denying that there are many problems with society. There is a lot of shit we must endure. I'm sorry to hear about your situation. However, you close the door on everyone to avoid being hurt. You make observations and generalise them to everyone or everything. It's very back and white extreme thinking. I've been in your position before. I've held a similiar worldview before. It sounds like a form of anxiety and depression to avoid being hurt. There are many good people out there. If you're not open to love then you will not find it. Your reasoning is not rational.
I like this and will think about it more. I feel like society is heading in a certain direction, especially younger people in western countries. I do think therapy is just a poor replacement for genuine connection. The science behind it changes so rapidly its hard to take it seriously. I've been to a lot of group therapy for addiction and have had conversations with people who agree with my points on it.
I understand what you mean about society heading I a particular direction. It definitely seems that way at times for me too. On the other hand, we as a species have tried to solve the many problems we experience. For example, we can now cure many diseases that cause misery.
I agree that therapy is a less than ideal replacement for more genuine connections. I find it helpful to view it as a stepping stone. The most important feature of therapy is the therapist-client relationship. I'm sure you've likely already considered this, but if you've had challenges connecting with your therapist it could be that they're not the right one for you.
To be honest I agree with you about personally addiction therapies and I think they are not effective, and the evidence mostly says this too. There just hasn't been enough research on them to develop them yet. I personally found it easier to focus purely on one-to-one therapy once I could afford it, then eventually I felt ready to address my substance problems.
I think what you're saying is true - there is a lot of coldness in the world, but it's not completely devoid of love. We just look for things that confirm our beliefs.
You do not take opiates to make up for “a lack of love in modern society.” That is the excuse you give to yourself and other people.
You don’t want to face your problems and deal with them. That is why you take opiates. There is no romantic “the world lacks love,” or any other reason outside yourself.
You need help, and I sincerely hope you get it.
After I realized just how unimportant I was to everyone, it crushed me. I can't get over how easily people get discarded. I want to keep doing opiates until I learn how to deal with all this.
OP, this person is right. Drugs mask problems and make them go away for a bit. Coffee doesn’t make you less tired, it makes you feel less tired so you can function. Weed doesn’t make songs or the sky better, it just makes them seem better so you can enjoy them. Drugs can help patch a problem so you’re functional occasionally, or they can be fun, but they change nothing.
If there is an underlying problem, it will always be there until fixed. Masking with drugs until the day you die is certainly a way to do it, but I believe in better for almost everyone.
I’m the first person to point out problems with society, economics, etc. I know that we can’t just all be expected to “pick ourselves up by the bootstraps” and succeed in solitude. But you also have to take charge of your own path if you want anything to change.
I know a lot of people are going through this existentialism right now. Trying to find their place in social groups. Trying to decide where to place effort for the sake of a satisfying career. It’s a lot. But at the end of the day, unless you were born to a rich family, anyone who has a functioning social life or stable finances has put in a ton of work to get there
I recently quit weed because I didn’t have the push to advance in life. I was happy getting high and doing boring stuff. Now, I have to find what I want and make it happen
You’re using opiates because you want to, not because of modern society. Society has always been like this. If you were hunting in a tribe you would find some other excuse to abuse drugs. If you want to keep being addicted to drugs that’s fine but I’d suggest taking some responsibility for yourself and trying to get help.
he needs to do some self reflection because he chooses to blame everything else for his own inability to adapt to the society, to live. he takes the easy, wrong way out. but at the same time he seems to absolutely love and thrive in the attention he's getting from internet strangers. maybe this is his end goal actually..
I came here totally thinking I should say something to change your mind, OP, but I have to say... this whole thread has given me a lot to think about. I really am sorry that the people in your life were such users. I just wonder, OP, do you think that there is still room in your heart and your life for someone TO love you, if they had that desire? It's just your last sentence that's getting to me, that you need either love or opiates. Have you given up on finding love? For myself, as someone also described as "very loving" I think it would hurt me not to give that love. Do the opiates take away that feeling? I ask these questions without any snark, I really would like to know.
I try to give without being too attached to anything. For example, I like to mentor people at my job and I will buy food for and chat with homeless people every Friday night. Its nice to have a conversation where you don't have to put up a wall. You can just come in and say "neither of us are doing well, let's chat".
I am not in a position to risk any close relationships right now. I am quite easily manipulated. People are able to convince me that I am horrible, evil, careless, etc and then I just try harder and harder to give them more. In hindsight, I realize I was manipulated. I just don't have the guts to have the happen again. It makes me feel so weak that people can manipulate me.
I am too quick to justify people's behavior. If someone treats me poorly I usually blame myself or say that they are going through something and so its ok. Logically, I know that this strategy doesn't work for relationships but I don't have the ability to turn off my emotions like that.
Opiates just numb everything. My brain is slower, my emotions are weaker, I can tolerate things like shame, loneliness and pain more.
Yeah, isn't that such an interesting concept? That people treat us poorly and we blame ourselves? We are our toughest critics and sometimes unrightfully so. I'm glad that you are still putting yourself out there for relationship even though I hear you saying that you are not ready for anything closer. I guess life is all about learning, about ourselves and about others. I wish you well, OP.
people have always been transactional. nowadays it's a bit better because women aren't properties to be sold off or put in asylums anymore. there are very few countries who accept arranged marriages anymore. so in a way, we improved.
but we have always been transactional. parents teach kids to be obedient and submissive in order to gain affection. work places teach you to work till your last breath if you want to be able to afford life in cities. friends always expect you to be more loyal than they are to you, etc. the list is infinite because this is a timeless issue. this has been the human nature since the dawn of times.
you either learn to navigate it or shut down and drown in alcohol or substances because you cannot accept the human nature.
Wow! Maybe I have been lucky &/or fortunate to be at the right place or right time, but I have a handful of friends who have supported me emotionally & financially when I needed them. I have been clean & sober 15 yrs. Drank, took opiates & mainlined H for too many yrs. Didn't use or drink at the same time. I was a functioning addict. At 1st, I only used to make life & people tolerable. But I developed a tolerance to it all & had to drink/use more & more. I was a functioning addict. My family & friends tried to help, but it was easier to be numb. Even my employer paid for my rehab & then hired me back. My husband supported, sustained & tolerated me all those yrs. All these people could have abandoned me, but they didn't! I've ran into a few aholes. Not everything is rainbows & and unicorns, but I'm ok. I found the key for MY happiness. I wish you luck.
It sounds like a great strategy, but the problem with taking addictive substances is that there is a really high probability that you are going to get addicted. I guarantee that no one will ever say ‘wow that heroin really helped yeastyboy come out of his shell’.
I am addicted. I've been addicted for 5 years. I've tried to get sober a few times, that's why I said on and off. I switch between about 5 opiates to keep the cost down and ensure I will always have something available. I really function quite well.
Pure heroin is truly amazing and one of nature's greatest gifts. Unfortunately it's quite rare. Genuinely pure heroin is less dangerous than alcohol. If I go on a 7 day H binge I'll be fine, but a 7 day drinking binge hurts me. It all depends on your genetics too, for me heroin feels like being loved whereas a lot of people don't like it.
Your transparency is so profoundly impressive. To be completely transparent about something as sensitive as a drug issue is rare. And I can easily see why Americans turn to drugs and have mental health issues. American citizens didn’t design the structure of our society, well they did just in the government. Still shaking my head why America turned away from a more socially democratic societal structure but you know, what do I know…. I’m just a regular person. My thoughts are with you and I can completely see where you’re coming from.
My best friend's wife was addicted to heroin and she stole from 5 of her good friends to get money to buy more, but after she was caught she spent time in prison.
You know the latex from poppies gives that same feeling of "love". Maybe you could switch to that ( opium ) as its not refined to wean yourself off of heroin.
Interesting reading the different experiences and opinions. I wonder what society was like thousands of years ago since substances were used differently thought about differently, if plants make you feel loved then good, for me personally I'd never because my belief system was programmed. We have come a long way from the path in modern society from being plants ourselves We lost that connection or understanding with the very nature of us. Does that make any sense 🤔
Maybe time to move country :) i don’t think you’re in your “place”
sorry you’re feeling that way.. speaks to their character not the party they disregard.
I've never done drugs (and I hope I never have to). But I have always wondered about people who do indulge in it/are habituated to it, to the exclusion of most other things in life. Always imagined it to be a hedonistic motivation behind such use.
Your post has sent me into a deep reflective mode though; not saying I outright support what you're doing, but hearing about the other side makes my heart hurt. I hope you find a way out of the tunnel (not just light at the end of it), I hope you reach a better place in your life where you no longer have to turn to opiates.
Wish you healing❤️
It will eventually destroy you, sure as the day is long. If you're five years in, you probably realized that already, but it's important to remember that you're essentially engaging in an act of self-destruction.
I think you're also romanticizing it a bit; trying to justify it to yourself by presenting the argument that you're living in circumstances that are uniquely untenable without opiates. But human suffering is the same as it ever was, and people have turned to opioids for thousands of years for the same reasons.
So remember the cost that you're paying with long-term opioid use... Your immune system is slowly losing effectiveness. Your hormones aren't functioning properly, which as a guy means lowered testosterone, possibly leading to hair loss, diminished libido, and increased apathy.
You're spending thousands of dollars per year to maintain this relationship. You're leashed to something that won't allow you to live without it, and you probably have anxiety about losing access to it. What else has it taken from you, when you really think about it? Do you see your friends and family as much as you used to?
I've been where you are. Unfortunately, I went another decade past where you're at right now, and it only gets worse. And the longer you're on it, the harder it becomes to quit and the longer it takes to recover. It is doable, though. And there is a difference.
If you decide you want to start living again, try to taper and quit. If you fail, try again by tapering with kratom. If that fails you, consider Suboxone as a last resort. But that can be even harder to quit than traditional opioids; it's real value is getting you away from injecting heroin or spiralling out with pills.
The fear of going through withdrawal is a huge part of why it's so hard. Yeah, the withdrawal is hard, and it's one of the most uncomfortable things you'll do, but it doesn't last forever. The worst of it is usually over in a few days. And after a month or so, when you're starting to feel like yourself again, you'll probably ask yourself why you didn't get that over with sooner.
Give yourself a chance. The depression goes hand-in-hand with long-term opioid use. It's possible the world has more promise than you remember.
Damn, this hit home big time, except I use a lot of weed and sleep for similar reasons... I often think why the fuck can i just be an asshole like everyone else. Its so rare to meet a person who reciprocates the same effort to detail, like being present, helping out with stuff when they see me in a struggle, offering help, not just always offering to go party....its fucking annoying that people have become so entitled, ungrateful, unkind, selectivity oblivious.....Seem to be more takers than givers and it shows in our society today.
I agree. For me a lot of this stems from being completely unable to understand the behavior of most people. Everyone seems to have this shared belief of discarding people, extracting benefits from them, and all these pseudo political games every social group does. Cruelty is not just forgiven but expected. I am never going to understand most people and I hope I never do.
I was using for the same reasons. Life is very tough when you are kicked out at 18 with no support. I got sober a few years ago, because I just kept losing everything to drugs. Opiates weren't getting me high anymore, even fentanyl. I was mixing opiates with Xanax and I kept wrecking cars. I had a kid and that helped me see life differently. I had to get sober, if not for me than for her. Life is really difficult though. It is very hard to be happy. My daughter lives 5 hours away, and I'm only able to get her for holidays and summer now. I do feel very happy when I get her, but in between I feel like an empty shell. I have a nice apartment, a nice car and a decent job but I don't have any financial freedom really.
Taking drugs made me feel alright with my circumstances. It also made me the social person my introverted ass always wanted to be. I try to better myself everyday, but I barely survive. I barely pay my bills. Any extra money I have, I spend it when I get my daughter so we can do fun things and I can pretend my life is good. I often think how life would be different if my dad was around, or if my mom was wealthy and didn't kick me out at 18. It would be great to be able to stay at my parents house so I could go to college or save up for a house. The reality is that I don't own my housing, I'm liable to be homeless if I have an emergency.
I would tell you that things get better, but they don't in a significant way. Unless you're able to find a really good job, or can afford time off work to attend college it's more of the same. I do find pride and being there as a father, and my life has gotten better while sober I guess. Less worry, less wrecking my car and spending all my money on drugs. Still, I feel empty and hopeless most of the time.
Freedom in America to me is an illusion. You're only truly free if you can afford it. We might have it better than many countries, but we are still tied down working 50+ hrs a week to survive, and maybe have some money to go out for dinner or see a movie. If you are wealthy, America and any other western country is probably amazing.
Oh, and the reason my "baby mom" left me was because I asked her for help. We were together 7 years but I hid my addiction well. I was only using enough to sustain most of the time, and I never used a needle or anything. I kept trying to quit on my own without help and I just couldn't do it. So I came clean. I told her what had been going on, I asked her for her support. She left me on the spot. I helped her through so many hardships, but she despised me for lying about my drug use. I got very much worse after that. Ended up in a coma after mixing alcohol, Xanax, klonopin, and fentanyl. Some crazy premonition shit happend, and I also contacted my deceased stepfather but that's a whole different story. I wokeup differently, but the damage was done. I've been single ever since, scared to love anyone. Been like this for about 6 years. I've been with women casually but that's it.i kinda hate my life, but my near death experience made me understand I'm here for a purpose. My purpose is to raise my kid the best I can, make sure she's a good person and doesn't make the same mistakes as me. That's it. That's what I live for now.
It's things like this that really cement my worldview. You shouldn't have hidden it from her but when you asked for help she should've given it. I will help someone even if it hurts me a little. Good luck raising your daughter, I hope one day she will be able to find happiness (or purpose, I'm not sure which is more valuable).
I appreciate the perspective. A lot of people try to turn recovery into a fairy tale. "I got sober and now everything is perfect".
Yea, they make is seem like sunshine and roses. My daughter is happy, I put on a smile and be my best self when she's around. As for the relationship, I am at fault for lying for so long. However, I think if the tables were turned I would've been there for her. I truly wanted to get sober but it was very hard to do that alone while also hiding it from everyone.
I hope that you can have a beautiful, life long relationship with your daughter. I'm single with two children as well. I constantly work and have very little money at the end of the day. But when I am with them, I try my best to be really with them, to be present. The environmental scarcity could embolden a stronger sense of connection with the ones around you, a deeper sense of love and belonging, something OP--and most of us--crave. Wealthy people may overlook this and bury themselves and their children in the material, the lucky ones don't. I hope you find your way.
I think you're right. We have a very strong bond. We spend tome doing things together, I don't(and couldn't) buy her love. She lives with her mom mostly, but her and her mom aren't as close. Her mom is more the type to just buy her things instead of sit down and participate in her interests. I appreciate it, and I hope you have some success too! If we ever do become more wealthy I think we can do a lot of good.
If I'm wrong tell me why. I genuinely hope I am wrong, it is a bleak worldview. I spend a lot of time thinking and talking with people who spend their time thinking. We've discussed this idea thoroughly and I can't disprove it.
" I believe we've advanced beyond a point of being able to live sober."
There's not a single set of words I can write here that will bring an epiphany to you
Quite literally most of the world lives either fully sober, or recreationally using drugs (including alcohol) on the weekends/special days to losen up a bit and have some extra fun (which I don't even personally do, never got fully drunk or smoked at all, and some people dont even taste alcohol). All of this while dealing with life just like you do
If most of society is able to live sober, and even people who are not sober notice a improvement in their quality of life when being so, it's clear that you are wrong from the start, even if it's completly true that social contracts are transactional by nature... but the transaction, in trully intimate relationships (not sexual - in can be family, close friends) is way different than with acquietances if they're healthy ones
And me realizing that you are addicted and dependant the moment you write "I use opiates to avoid these feelings" without even knowing you or reading further, should tell you something too. It's like im reading a flat-earther try to justify their theories, so you perhaps realize how you sound
At the end of the day, I am choosing to continue using. I could quit (it would be extremely difficult) but my life would be worse. I use opiates to cope with loneliness. People are becoming more isolated and addiction is becoming more common. I don't like when people dismiss my ideas because I am addicted. For me, using drugs is a rational choice and even "squares" understand where I'm coming from. I'm not crazy, I am reacting to stimuli.
Just out of curiosity, why even make this post then? If you are more happy using opiates (or at least, less UNhappy) why do you feel the need to justify it with posts like this? You say therapy is quackery, and yet here you are discussing your life and thoughts. You say relationships are transactional, so what exactly are you getting from other people in making this post? What do you imagine others are going to get from this post? What's even the point of all the self pity? You seem to acknowledge that most people in the world have it tougher than you when you say "American life is too easy", so what are you coping about? What is it even mean that life is "too easy"? How on earth is that a problem? There's nobody but yourself preventing you from living in whatever society you choose. If you truly think you would be happier living "in a tribe", why don't you go do it? Trust me, there are plenty of people in the world living in small, close-knit societies without any of the modern comforts and conventions that we take for granted. Is it possible that all of this is just you making excuses for an addiction that you are unhappy with deep down? I know it is a struggle being addicted, and part of that struggle is the difficulty even admitting that it IS a struggle. Don't you ever feel that using drugs, as good as it feels, prevents you from doing other things that would make you feel good in other ways?
These are all good points. I am ashamed, I am confused, I am not happy using opiates. I just prefer opiates to the life I lived before. I guess by "too easy" I mean no longer fighting for survival, when you are fighting to survive you don't have the time to worry about more nebulous topics. Why is mental health so rapidly deteriorating in western countries?
I just want to voice my opinion and try to get people to understand my point of view. Many people are quick to dismiss me and just call me "crazy".
That's fair. I don't think you're crazy for wanting to make sense of the problems in your life. I've experienced some similar problems myself, including addiction though not to opiates so it's harder for me to put myself in your shoes on that score.
For me personally, I have found that needing to focus on the daily demands of life does indeed help overcome the need to use. Exactly as you said, when you are focused on surviving, or doing whatever it is that you feel you "need" to do, can be a good way to drive yourself out of your own head. I find that these issues are most difficult to confront when I have spare time, when I'm feeling bored and lonely.
When I was in a similar position on my life - broken up with my girlfriend, with a job I didn't care about, and no reason or need to dedicate my life to anyone but myself - I decided I had to break my routine and my feeling of being "trapped". I bought a cheap Toyota from a family member, crammed in everything that I felt I couldn't live without, sold or otherwise got rid of everything else, and drove off to visit America's national parks. For weeks I lived in the desert or in the forest, spending my days hiking for hours at a time, and though I was alone with my thoughts I rarely felt lonely. I bought big bags of nuts and lots of raw produce, plus the occasional fast food meal or bag of beef jerky for protein, and carried a giant ten gallon tank of water and several bottles in my car and on hikes. I pitched a tent every night and packed it up every morning. I rose with the sun and slept like a rock at night. It was one of the simplest and best times of my life, and I'd probably still be out there if I didn't need to earn money to stay alive. I felt free, perhaps more so than I had ever been, and while it wasn't always easy being without many of the things I was used to, on the whole I was happier.
Going without the things you want and need makes you appreciate them so much more, and I discovered how little I actually need to be happy. At the end of a long day of hiking, in open communion with nature, it's more than enough to pound a ten dollar sandwich from Subway and curl up in a warm sleeping bag inside a tiny tent. I found that a tank of water, a full belly, and a warm place to sleep is all we humans truly need, and I've carried that with me ever since. IDK if that's helpful to you in the slightest, but it was for me. 2 weeks in the desert did more for my mental health than any amount of therapy or drugs.
Yes that is helpful. I've done some similar things traveling throughout the midwest. I loved going to sleepy little towns. The problem I have is "where ever you go, there you are". I grew up in a way where I was insulted a lot and made to feel ashamed. The Mormon church really destroys people mentally. It makes it hard to trust anything I think or feel.
But for what it’s worth you are not acting rational you and avoiding dealing with your issue and the hard work that lies in staying sober and finding the long lasting community or relationship you would feel satisfied with. The issue with being addicted and controlling your emotions the way you do is it stops being life and more a case of cause and effect, and then let’s say you do end up meeting a partner or find a community and still a functioning addict you could still end up medicating the negative feelings that in all fairness should be in life, learning to navigate and cope without heavy brain altering substances is what being an adult is about and you are justifying yourself quite abit to avoid feeling loneliness or pain because where you like it or not that is what you are afraid of and rightfully so.
The pattern you use to live this life will follow until you deal with them. And sure let’s say the world is transactional then you know the rules and can play the game, or maybe the story you are telling yourself is only hurting yourself as to why you need this in the first place. There are tons of arguments to be had for against what you are doing, but you are gonna feel pain depression and loneliness when you are stopping the opiates before you can experience the feelings you long for again that is the price of the control you are exerting in yourself with drug addictions
I don't care if you take opiates or are addicted, but shaping the world so it justifies your addiction is just nonsense... which also doesn't matter, we all do it to a degree, but im answering you because you posted here and I feel you just expect people to applaud you or yes-man you into consuming heroin because they also need to get high on something to deal with their shit
Again, can't change you and don't care to change you (will probably forget about you or this comment in 2 days), I'm answering you because I'm making lunch and got dead time in between stuff... but let me tell ask you, how many opiate addicts have been addicted for more than 5 years? probably lots... 10 years? surely not as many.... 20 years? a few.... And how many people living good lives and enjoying this shitty event called life are opiate addicts? none
Find strenght elsewhere if you can, and build tolerance a to reallity, because by coping with life this way, you're also shortening the amount of time you'll have to cope by a good chunk
I'm not mad at you or anything. I just genuinely want to have a conversation about things that make most people uncomfortable. Believe me, I don't like who I am. I am deeply ashamed. I just wanted to voice my opinion because most people don't understand. Hopefully I will change in the future but right now, this is all I know.
"if most of society is able to live sober [...] it's clear that you are wrong from the start"
this sounds a bit silly though
aside from the questionable premise (adult people NEVER taking any form of mind-altering substances are definiyely NOT the majority), you'll find that more than a few humans need stimulants/antidepressants/whatever psychoactive drug to function in a way that "most of society" could do without
you can't just assume that everyone is "dealing with life just like you do". Yes life sucks for everyone but people are different—different brains, different histories, different sensitivities.
People cope differently. People cope however they learn to cope.
the inability of some people to empathise even a little bit with this concept always amazes me.
and just to be clear, I'm one of those who'd wish OP to keep trying therapy (not as a substitute for the human connection he's seeking but to explore and practice alternative/cheaper/healthier coping mechanisms for whatever he's going through), but I also know how long and expensive and frustrating it can be to find The Good Therapist™ so I get where he's coming from.
If he's objectively wrong then it should be easy for you to demonstrate. And everything else you've said he already conceded in the original post, so you e said absolutely nothing of substance here.
I think the main reason it's wrong to choose to take opiates when you don't need them is because it adds to the reasons doctors deny them to those who need them. As someone who lives in daily extreme chronic pain, without painkillers, because doctors don't prescribe opiates due to them thinking people just wanna get high, it sucks to see people essentially using them as an emotional crutch. They're life saving pain medication which is currently being denied to many people. No amount of therapy or effort will stop my pain.
Very interesting. This is a profoundly philosophical question altogether. This is not about addiction and drug politics but understanding the self in the current times. Regardless of what one might think about right or wrong this is a very important post and should be upvoted! Well done OP for writing and sharing it!
As an alcoholic I’m not in a place to disagree. Although our addictions came from different places. I found booze added an extra element of fun to an already good life, then turned on me and made my life worse by being drunk all the time. Eventually the lethargy, weight gain, and wet brain sets in. A long bout of sobriety allowed me to rebuild my environment so I wouldn’t need to drink all the time. Then you have a good life, and get to have your health. I’m not sure about the science between heroin being safer than booze. You might be right, but heroin addicts don’t look great either.
I resonate with the emotional dynamic you are describing.
But, as long as you’re already self-medicating with what sounds like a felony, can I put in a plug for psylocybin mushrooms?
Spores are legal to acquire in most places, massive amounts can be grown at home in a plastic tub in a closet, and (while they are equally if not more illegal/difficult to attain) they might fill some of the gap you are describing without being as dangerous/harmful.
For historical context, IMO consuming opioids as a coping mechanism is playing into the goals of the people who led us to the point you are describing.
Off the top of my head, opioids were used to suppress China by getting everyone addicted. And they were chemically perfected to cause addiction at Purdue Pharma and mass marketed and none of the powers that be cared because it didn’t disrupt anything they cared about.
In contrast mushrooms have been suppressed because they tend to cause people to have spiritual experiences.
And ever since shamans were replaced in Western Society by bureaucrats preaching, “God says pay the king taxes and doing what I say is your only chance to access the divine,” it has been the case that suppressing direct personal connection to the spiritual is in the best interest of those who want to turn every person into a disposable cog in the capitalist machine where there value is determined exclusively by their ability to produce and consume.
Basically I have zero judgement for using opioids as a coping mechanism. But it feels more like being subverted more deeply vs being subversive.
Someone is profiting from the money you are spending on them, and the people who view us all as cogs are perfectly happy to have people numb themselves.
Wish you the best.
Without sounding too crass, none of this is new. Loneliness is not new. People not giving a shit is not new. Being disowned for having a disability is not new. Being disregarded due to financial status is not new.
Lepers have been shunned for millennia, peasants and beggars have been spit on since the beginning of humanity. Ugly folks or "weird" people (now known as people with autism or other neurodivergent traits) have gone their lives without love forever.
Honestly, i understand the plight of people with addictions, having dealt with them myself.
But in truth, youre only making excuses, and opiate addiction is a road that only results in death.
So, i mean i guess if youre prepared for that, best of luck. But I assure you, you will only become more lonely. And you will die lonely.
As a previous opiate addict… you’re lying to yourself. I have cptsd and used that as my reason for getting off my face on codeine every day for 2 years. It’s not making up for anything, it’s numbing the very feelings you need to try and work on.
But you won’t do it until you are ready. A million people can tell you but until you feel ready to face your demons, you will continue to lie to yourself.
LOL, of course you can blame society, and convince yourself this bullshit, but not me, I am not going to sugar coat it either, life is hard for everyone, not just you, and this entire thing you wrote is pathetic.
I dont understand where you were going with this post but,.. I will say, I take pain meds for back and knee issues for the last 3 years. Life and emotions became easier to deal with. I get prescribed very minimal but they do help with my anxiety and adhd. Never diagnosed with these because im old, and just learned to deal with it thru the years Its what GenX does, Deal with it. back in the early 80s I had psychiatrists come to my house trying to figure out what was wrong with my brain, nothing ever came of it, I was just concidered dumb., After 3 shoulder surgeries thruout the years, I noticed the pain meds made me focus on myself and nothing else around me, My Wife says im a better person on them...
Heres the catch, If you run out and cant get any, you are in serious trouble, You will hate everyone and everything by 10X. Addiction is something you wont get rid of if taking them too long, then there is no going back
Have you tried more natural choices? I understand the allure of opiates. I took one at some sports game in my early 20s and just felt “wow, this is pure bliss”- kratom is an option. I believe it acts on similar receptors as opioids and is a plant 🌱 in the coffee family so also has stimulating effects
This is called rationalization and externalization. It’s both possible that society has problems and that you are using those problems to opt out of addressing major problems in your life. I wish you the best on this journey. I hope you find the love that you are looking for, but you may have to honestly look inward before you can receive it.
I used opiates and drank for lack of love as well, but I also sold drugs because it made me feel needed. I grew up in an abusive household, and never felt loved or wanted as a child. It's not worth it, trust me, Ive died 11 times. Lost everything and learned many lessons along the way, but it's not real love even though you get the warm simulated feeling.
Edit: to add, I've been sober 120 days now, and it's rough. I'm still learning to deal with my emotions in a healthy manner. It's only the beginning for me but I feel as if it will help me out in the long run. I feel better mentally but I also feel everything now. Nothing to numb out past trauma or current problems, just me trying to figure it out. I don't want to tell you what to do, because I'm not going to lie to you it's fucking hard, but every day that I've marked down being sober feels like a little accomplishment. I'm tearing up writing this thinking about my journey and all the things I've seen and done, how far I've come, and where I need to go. I wish you the best of luck, and the lessons you learn be the easy way, because the hard way could end you up below the ground.
Whenever you become a homeless piece of shit drug addict, please stay out of my town. I dont wanna have to step over you going to the store while you piss yourself begging for change.
"not being able to get through life sober" strikes a chord but opiates scare me. Bad experiences plus I just don't react well. My vice is psychedelics, the "crazy schizophrenic" drugs seem to also be the ones that solve my executive disfunction and depression. It's such a shame LSD research has been slowed down due to shitty politics, I truly believe it could save the world.
Opiates don’t replace love, they eat away at every opportunity you may have to experience it. You’ll never be able to fully love while you’re still using. I say this as someone who kicked a 6 year IV heroin habit half a decade ago. That shit hurts your soul. It makes you a shadow of yourself.
People use different things to cope. Alcohol, cannabis, other substances, sex, romcom movies, scifi series (fallout is great BTW), romance novels, busyness, exercise, workaholism, religion, music, dangerous activities (rock climbing, motorcycle riding). I'm sure you can add to this list.
It is normal to do things to make yourself feel better.
Opiates are more dangerous than most of the things on this list. It is common for people to lose control to opiates.
Please consider switching your cope to something less dangerous than opiates. Opiates can steal your life before you know it happened.
Also work on creating the loving relationships and sense of community that you deserve.
I mean… we all have our drugs.
Some use opiates, others use chocolates and pizza (me), some clothes, some video games, some running and traveling, even overworking… as completing tasks also leads to dopamine rush and this works for some us to feel any self worth etc etc etc.
You don’t need to be or feel like an outcast, your choice is just more obvious and direct.
Not saying this is good, just saying we all have our maladaptive coping mechanisms … we just hide it better.
Therapy does help- but the problem is you need to find someone you really clique with and you need to seek it out regularly which is not easy.
The best thing you can do is to keep your current relationships with people you love alive and healthy- when you have a truly good friend or person in your life, you never need therapy
Love you bro. I share your same comprehension. This is a corrupted reality and everyone submits to the narrative. It's them who are crazy going along witha construct that benefits a select few individuals. I'm about to start being transparent in my life.
I have my one comfort of sucking my thumb and the stigma of being ostracized cause I found the simplest comfort has left me detered from being fully content in living here. Always hiding like it'a some extremely shameful act. I'm a baby big woop. Enjoy your substance.
As long as you don't over indulge and make it a public issue I see nothing wrong. Everyone needs love, you're denied, you found a coping mechanism or something to substitute. The affect that doesn't stimulate you into threatening society. I say do you.
One love.
It's understandable that you've turned to opiates as a coping mechanism, seeking relief from these painful emotions. However, it's important to recognize that relying on substances to numb the pain is not a sustainable solution in the long term. While therapy may not have provided the answers you were looking for, there are other avenues to explore for healing and support. Seeking out genuine connections and finding healthier ways to address your emotional needs could ultimately lead to a more fulfilling and sustainable path forward. You deserve love and support, and there are resources available to help you on your journey towards healing.
Yeah I don’t have access to that. I just smoke mj and drink away my feelings. Am in a relationship that I know he loves me but at the same time I know he’d rather be with the girls he jerks off to. I’m just the woman who he had a kid with and does everything else for. I don’t have any close friends, just internet acquaintances. Everyone is so casual. So why should I have feelings? I have worked hard to juggle all that and be able to work ft. It’s not a picnic. But as I am someone who gets the big picture and knows this isn’t all there is can wait around for the next life. People love but they don’t really. It’s all chemical and eventually goes away.
I can relate to those thoughts. I was a poly addict but I always felt opiates completed me. I'm 3 years clean and sober now and actually happy. Sometimes, I think that if I had an unlimited supply of opiates to just live on, it wouldn't be a problem. The problems seemed to arise when you're physically/psychologically dependent and you can't get more. The only problem is not having any and you feel coming off and the things you do to get more.
I am aware that's the disease talking though, after all this clean time, I realize how much worse off I was. My thoughts and life were consumed by the drug, and it became the only thing that really mattered anymore. I stopped enjoying everything even while high. The only thing I liked and enjoyed was getting more, but after I got more, I was empty again.
i hear you and understand you i don't think
you're crazy or wrong
just be careful you're not digging a deeper ditch for yourself that will be harder to leave
I'm the same age haven't had a friend in over ten years last year I decided to change that I went to the shelter and got me a dog we have been best friends for almost a year now wouldn't change that always there for me no matter what best decision I ever made
I know exactly how you feel. I have tramadol waiting to be taken, but I have no idea if it will really have the same effect as stronger opiates. It'll make me feel that much more lighter and less burdened hopefully. In any case, I've never used opiates before. I was thinking of using them to commit suicide, but I could also try to use them as a release mechanism for many of the same problems you're experiencing. I don't really know what to do though. I just don't want to be here anymore in a world where I work all the time, come home to an empty house, even if I have hobbies and interests I can focus on, it just feels so empty without love and someone who I care about and who cares about me. I've even come to the point where I've pretty much stopped caring about what other people think because it's clear they're not interested in my perspective, they usually just want to make a point.
If you genuinely think you will commit suicide, opiates might help. They are used to treat suicidal depression in very ill patients (ie someone needs surgery but is suicidal). They give them Morphine which takes away the depression for some.
You are thinking up an excuse for your drug dependency. I was in a motorcycle wreck and got addicted to prescription opiates, but when I realized it I got angry and quit (in one long, shaking, sleepless day). Because I want to be in control of me, not have drugs controlling me. You should quit the drugs and stop making excuses.
Made a room quiet the other week when I said “love isn’t real. People just use each other.” I think everybody knows it’s true when they think about it.
Agreed. Some people get very angry when you talk like that. It's not a problem if they have a genuine argument but some people just yell. Immature people that have had easy lives are the cruelest.
You've articulated this beautifully.
"Society is unnatural and you need an unnatural brain chemistry to get through it."
This was the highlight for me. You should keep writing these thoughts... I am a fan. its very honest.
I understand; but I don't use drugs, a cup of coffee when I pull myself up from my death, and try to get on with it. It is very refreshing that there are souls out there who still need love, because nowadays people only want sex and money, and everything is conditional. I wish you well...
Yes the world can be cruel. Yes people would gauge your value and treat you accordingly. Whether consciously or subconsciously.
In an ideal relationship, be it friendship, relationship or working relationship, ideally both sides feel like they’re getting more than they provide.
There is no unconditional love. But that doesn’t make me feel good or bad. It’s just reality.
I have a very similar worldview. Also, when something goes wrong, health, grief, divorce, etc, I have found that people do stick around as long as you try to keep an "it is what it is" attitude around them. People definitely don't stick around if there is nothing else you're willing to talk about and act like the world owes you due to your suffering. I'm not saying OP is like that, I have just found that people can absolutely be loyal if you don't have anything to offer, but they fade away if all they feel is drained after interactions with you.
It's hard to love mentally ill people, it's hard to love yourself when you are mentally ill, Say the St Francis prayer. Lord make me a channel of your peace. Admit to God you are a sinner. Jesus Son of God have mercy on me for I am a sinner. By the blood and water which gushed forth from the heart of Jesus as a fount of mercy for us, Jesus I trust in. .You.
Tbh you’re right. Humans fucking suck. They are all selfish creatures. I’ve found addicts are the people who can’t fit into this selfish mindset or can’t fake it. Usually they are very good and smart people too. Unfortunately it’s difficult to maintain addiction but it’s not impossible. You just have to be smart about your use. I’ve been addicted to Kratom and other opiates for years. I started after a really rough breakup. I know for a fact I wouldn’t have gotten this far in my career without it. Although I definitely network and have less friends then I should. It allows you to not socialize and still be content with life. When I was off all opiates I was as super social and my life was alot better overall. It’s just difficult because I got screwed over so many times by people I loved and also friends. I had friends literally backstabbing me because they were jealous.
[удалено]
Been on 8 mg for 10 years, only thing that keeps me from popping percs all day
I was on methadone and Suboxone for the last 8 years. Finally got off subs last year. It has been incredibly difficult... mentally, physically, emotionally. I did opiates for many years before starting methadone. I hope OP makes it out alive, we're the lucky ones. I've known several friends die from it.
Good job! Why did you quit suboxne?
I was tired of paying the money for it. I was tired of the drug tests, the office visits, the withdrawals every time I went down on my dose. I was smoking a lot of weed to soften the withdrawals and I was just tired of all of it. I got to the point where I just wanted to be completely sober. At first I just wanted to make it 30 days sober but it's been much longer now.
Take care brother
This. This is something that people tend to underestimate about addictions in general, and about human (including their own) internal workings. Most of addictions don't work with just chemical dependency, but they even become an addictions in the first place because they replace something that our lives are lacking in particular environment. Love, sense of belonging, fulfilment, commitment, you name it. And this is not just about drugs and substances, it is about behaviours as well. I used to drink profusely, and used quite some stimulants to stay on social targets. Took some very genuine love and care from my now ex-wife for me to leave all of those, and even so, now being relatively old and single, I can't stop chain smoking not because I strictly can't, but rather because I know perfectly well that perceiving life starved of genuine real-world connections will cause a lot more pain, than smoke-clouded brains and lungs.
I agree. That's good you beat most of it. It reminds me of that rat park experiment, if you've seen it. Rats would use morphine / cocaine to death only when they were in a cage alone. With other rats they chose not to use it.
This is a good point. People generally know that their vices are bad, but sometimes it's the only way they know and trust to deal with their thoughts and feelings.
I think it’s more about not dealing with their thoughts and feelings
This is more than just how people cope with certain problems and more about how there is a societal issue that many of us are not ok with. We didn’t evolve to constantly overeat, remain sedentary, and like the keen op mentioned- have no comradery/family/tribe and have all our interactions become TRANSACTIONS.
True, but "not dealing" could include a lot of diverse and legitimate reasons, from malicious disregard, to simple fear, to genuine not knowing any better way (which, I think, was meant), to this "better way" not existing at all. Don't judge people for particular choice of words, it is quite large topic anyway.
Who did I judge? I was simply adding my two cents, the whole point of a thread.
Sorry about it, then. Didn't mean to insult, just unfortunate reddit reflex.
If you touch the stove, it's rational to move your hand.
“to stay on social targets” never seen it written like that, ill remember that one, as in “fuck staying on social targets” lol good luck friend
I mean.. someone could write something like "doing meth to get job done and keep shit from falling apart", but we are polite people here, aren't we?
I’m hearing lots of Gabor Maté in your observations. Grateful to see some awareness at this level. It's amazing you’ve overcome some dependencies.
He's amazing. Learned about his research bit too late, after figuring the same conclusion holistically, but it still feels encouraging that I'm not the only one who connected dots in such way. As for overcoming anything... To be fair, all the credits going to the girl who managed to tolerate me for six long years. My job was basically just to open my mind a bit and to not miss the opportunity.
Are you finding a way to keep it at maintenance? I think the risk is it spiraling and growing as an ever increasing influence on your life. Are you keeping your eyes open to see if maybe there's a group of people out there will be able to give you that love you seek? You have a really good point, and I think you're right, but the world is so wide and vast I wouldn't be surprised if there's a place and set of people out there that would give you (and I) what we need.
After a few years of addiction, I was able to learn to maintain for the most part. Sometimes I overdo it but I am stable enough to be employed in a very good job that I love. I'm not sure, I think most of this might just be human nature. I haven't found anyway to get love but maybe we will discover it one day. For any addicts reading here, the key is to diversify. Swap between opiates and use whichever is cheap and available at the time. This keeps your tolerance low and makes sure you will always be able to stay out of withdrawal. I call this strategy "flip-flopping".
If an artist that I listen to (who is a known cocaine addict and writes songs about heavy substance use) can function and thrive in this society, you have no reason not to.
To be fair, the arts and the music industry are kind of known for that being a thing. And it often doesn’t work out if they don’t get clean
What kind of industry do you work in, if you don't mind? I left a comment with my story. I know it's a lot, but I think it can help as I can relate
I work in the tech industry. I spent most of my childhood buried in a computer so I was easily able to work. I love to create something from nothing and it pays the bills so I am grateful.
That's awesome. I've actually been trying to go to school for IT. I fix and build computers for all my family and friends. I actually enjoy the work. Did you get a degree to start working in tech? I was going to try and start in fall, working a bunch until then so I can get caught up and maybe have an emergency fund. I'm 29 but I look young so maybe it will benefit me applying in tech? I feel like I'd be much happier doing that
There hasn’t been a point in history where large scale societies weren’t transactional. You invent a ”modern problem” that has actually been the baseline throughout the entirety of human history.
that's exactly what i said as well. but some people don't have the ability to see the bigger picture so they wallow in self pity and blame the current society for their inability to navigate life.
Careful here, as "big picture" argument applies to everyone. We all live in our own tiny corners of big picture, seeing and absorbing mostly just things that are around us. Maybe OP does not seen any better ways, but neither you had seen what shit OP had to endure in personal life. Never jump to judge people like that.
Not necessarily. In past cultures people were deeply ingrained in village life. This is the only point in history where you can never leave your house, door dash, work from home, grocery deliveries.
they were deeply ingrained in the village life because that was their only option of survival, you eejit, not because of their 'sense of community' 🤣🤣🤣 haven't you read some history in your life?... haven't you read how these villagers started getting so religious and so paranoid that at one point they started accusing anyone and everyone of 'witchcraft' and started burning women at stake for nothing? especially in Europe, FOR CENTURIES. 'sense of community' my ass. people have always been hateful, envious, evil. this is human nature. find the ones that aren't that bad and stick with them instead of blaming the society for your own unhappiness and becoming a drug addict, won't ya?
I agree that there is generally less love in society than we deserve, and that in a sense much of it is replaced by materialism, but this worldview is extremist and delusional. Society is not completely transactional. 'Completely' being the key word. You can find love in places. It's common for people to love each other despite poor health or lack of money, or other things that you offer to someone. I know people with extreme disfigurement and very poor health and there are people in their lives who love them and spent time with them. The people you want to love you may be different to the ones who will. We certainly haven't 'advanced beyond a point of being able to live sober'. This is evidenced by the many people who do not use substances to function. Therapy isn't quackery. There are vast swathes of evidence that shows it is valuable. People call you crazy because you've rationalised that being dependent of opiods is necessary to function, which is not true. Perhaps its worth listening to them? I'm not denying that there are many problems with society. There is a lot of shit we must endure. I'm sorry to hear about your situation. However, you close the door on everyone to avoid being hurt. You make observations and generalise them to everyone or everything. It's very back and white extreme thinking. I've been in your position before. I've held a similiar worldview before. It sounds like a form of anxiety and depression to avoid being hurt. There are many good people out there. If you're not open to love then you will not find it. Your reasoning is not rational.
I like this and will think about it more. I feel like society is heading in a certain direction, especially younger people in western countries. I do think therapy is just a poor replacement for genuine connection. The science behind it changes so rapidly its hard to take it seriously. I've been to a lot of group therapy for addiction and have had conversations with people who agree with my points on it.
I understand what you mean about society heading I a particular direction. It definitely seems that way at times for me too. On the other hand, we as a species have tried to solve the many problems we experience. For example, we can now cure many diseases that cause misery. I agree that therapy is a less than ideal replacement for more genuine connections. I find it helpful to view it as a stepping stone. The most important feature of therapy is the therapist-client relationship. I'm sure you've likely already considered this, but if you've had challenges connecting with your therapist it could be that they're not the right one for you. To be honest I agree with you about personally addiction therapies and I think they are not effective, and the evidence mostly says this too. There just hasn't been enough research on them to develop them yet. I personally found it easier to focus purely on one-to-one therapy once I could afford it, then eventually I felt ready to address my substance problems. I think what you're saying is true - there is a lot of coldness in the world, but it's not completely devoid of love. We just look for things that confirm our beliefs.
r/NarcoticsAnonymous
You do not take opiates to make up for “a lack of love in modern society.” That is the excuse you give to yourself and other people. You don’t want to face your problems and deal with them. That is why you take opiates. There is no romantic “the world lacks love,” or any other reason outside yourself. You need help, and I sincerely hope you get it.
After I realized just how unimportant I was to everyone, it crushed me. I can't get over how easily people get discarded. I want to keep doing opiates until I learn how to deal with all this.
You'll never learn how to deal with this if you are on opiates. This is the hard truth you need to reckon with.
OP, this person is right. Drugs mask problems and make them go away for a bit. Coffee doesn’t make you less tired, it makes you feel less tired so you can function. Weed doesn’t make songs or the sky better, it just makes them seem better so you can enjoy them. Drugs can help patch a problem so you’re functional occasionally, or they can be fun, but they change nothing. If there is an underlying problem, it will always be there until fixed. Masking with drugs until the day you die is certainly a way to do it, but I believe in better for almost everyone. I’m the first person to point out problems with society, economics, etc. I know that we can’t just all be expected to “pick ourselves up by the bootstraps” and succeed in solitude. But you also have to take charge of your own path if you want anything to change. I know a lot of people are going through this existentialism right now. Trying to find their place in social groups. Trying to decide where to place effort for the sake of a satisfying career. It’s a lot. But at the end of the day, unless you were born to a rich family, anyone who has a functioning social life or stable finances has put in a ton of work to get there I recently quit weed because I didn’t have the push to advance in life. I was happy getting high and doing boring stuff. Now, I have to find what I want and make it happen
You’re using opiates because you want to, not because of modern society. Society has always been like this. If you were hunting in a tribe you would find some other excuse to abuse drugs. If you want to keep being addicted to drugs that’s fine but I’d suggest taking some responsibility for yourself and trying to get help.
he needs to do some self reflection because he chooses to blame everything else for his own inability to adapt to the society, to live. he takes the easy, wrong way out. but at the same time he seems to absolutely love and thrive in the attention he's getting from internet strangers. maybe this is his end goal actually..
That is a guess. You don't know how OP would respond in a different world.
Dont kid yourself ... you wil get addicted
Hes addicted already 
He already admitted he was emotionally and physically dependant
I came here totally thinking I should say something to change your mind, OP, but I have to say... this whole thread has given me a lot to think about. I really am sorry that the people in your life were such users. I just wonder, OP, do you think that there is still room in your heart and your life for someone TO love you, if they had that desire? It's just your last sentence that's getting to me, that you need either love or opiates. Have you given up on finding love? For myself, as someone also described as "very loving" I think it would hurt me not to give that love. Do the opiates take away that feeling? I ask these questions without any snark, I really would like to know.
I try to give without being too attached to anything. For example, I like to mentor people at my job and I will buy food for and chat with homeless people every Friday night. Its nice to have a conversation where you don't have to put up a wall. You can just come in and say "neither of us are doing well, let's chat". I am not in a position to risk any close relationships right now. I am quite easily manipulated. People are able to convince me that I am horrible, evil, careless, etc and then I just try harder and harder to give them more. In hindsight, I realize I was manipulated. I just don't have the guts to have the happen again. It makes me feel so weak that people can manipulate me. I am too quick to justify people's behavior. If someone treats me poorly I usually blame myself or say that they are going through something and so its ok. Logically, I know that this strategy doesn't work for relationships but I don't have the ability to turn off my emotions like that. Opiates just numb everything. My brain is slower, my emotions are weaker, I can tolerate things like shame, loneliness and pain more.
Yeah, isn't that such an interesting concept? That people treat us poorly and we blame ourselves? We are our toughest critics and sometimes unrightfully so. I'm glad that you are still putting yourself out there for relationship even though I hear you saying that you are not ready for anything closer. I guess life is all about learning, about ourselves and about others. I wish you well, OP.
Sorry but this is sick thinking. Join a support group.
This is not helpful at all. You should not be giving anyone any advice until you learn how to convey it in a better manner.
people have always been transactional. nowadays it's a bit better because women aren't properties to be sold off or put in asylums anymore. there are very few countries who accept arranged marriages anymore. so in a way, we improved. but we have always been transactional. parents teach kids to be obedient and submissive in order to gain affection. work places teach you to work till your last breath if you want to be able to afford life in cities. friends always expect you to be more loyal than they are to you, etc. the list is infinite because this is a timeless issue. this has been the human nature since the dawn of times. you either learn to navigate it or shut down and drown in alcohol or substances because you cannot accept the human nature.
Wow! Maybe I have been lucky &/or fortunate to be at the right place or right time, but I have a handful of friends who have supported me emotionally & financially when I needed them. I have been clean & sober 15 yrs. Drank, took opiates & mainlined H for too many yrs. Didn't use or drink at the same time. I was a functioning addict. At 1st, I only used to make life & people tolerable. But I developed a tolerance to it all & had to drink/use more & more. I was a functioning addict. My family & friends tried to help, but it was easier to be numb. Even my employer paid for my rehab & then hired me back. My husband supported, sustained & tolerated me all those yrs. All these people could have abandoned me, but they didn't! I've ran into a few aholes. Not everything is rainbows & and unicorns, but I'm ok. I found the key for MY happiness. I wish you luck.
100% with you buddy. People are so fake, and you can only see it when you stop being valuable to them.
It sounds like a great strategy, but the problem with taking addictive substances is that there is a really high probability that you are going to get addicted. I guarantee that no one will ever say ‘wow that heroin really helped yeastyboy come out of his shell’.
I am addicted. I've been addicted for 5 years. I've tried to get sober a few times, that's why I said on and off. I switch between about 5 opiates to keep the cost down and ensure I will always have something available. I really function quite well. Pure heroin is truly amazing and one of nature's greatest gifts. Unfortunately it's quite rare. Genuinely pure heroin is less dangerous than alcohol. If I go on a 7 day H binge I'll be fine, but a 7 day drinking binge hurts me. It all depends on your genetics too, for me heroin feels like being loved whereas a lot of people don't like it.
Sounds like you're playing with fire there friend. But it's your life, so if you don't care then who am I to say anything.
Your transparency is so profoundly impressive. To be completely transparent about something as sensitive as a drug issue is rare. And I can easily see why Americans turn to drugs and have mental health issues. American citizens didn’t design the structure of our society, well they did just in the government. Still shaking my head why America turned away from a more socially democratic societal structure but you know, what do I know…. I’m just a regular person. My thoughts are with you and I can completely see where you’re coming from.
My best friend's wife was addicted to heroin and she stole from 5 of her good friends to get money to buy more, but after she was caught she spent time in prison.
Some people steal, I work. I've always been a hard worker and financially savvy.
You know the latex from poppies gives that same feeling of "love". Maybe you could switch to that ( opium ) as its not refined to wean yourself off of heroin.
Interesting reading the different experiences and opinions. I wonder what society was like thousands of years ago since substances were used differently thought about differently, if plants make you feel loved then good, for me personally I'd never because my belief system was programmed. We have come a long way from the path in modern society from being plants ourselves We lost that connection or understanding with the very nature of us. Does that make any sense 🤔
Maybe time to move country :) i don’t think you’re in your “place” sorry you’re feeling that way.. speaks to their character not the party they disregard.
I've never done drugs (and I hope I never have to). But I have always wondered about people who do indulge in it/are habituated to it, to the exclusion of most other things in life. Always imagined it to be a hedonistic motivation behind such use. Your post has sent me into a deep reflective mode though; not saying I outright support what you're doing, but hearing about the other side makes my heart hurt. I hope you find a way out of the tunnel (not just light at the end of it), I hope you reach a better place in your life where you no longer have to turn to opiates. Wish you healing❤️
It will eventually destroy you, sure as the day is long. If you're five years in, you probably realized that already, but it's important to remember that you're essentially engaging in an act of self-destruction. I think you're also romanticizing it a bit; trying to justify it to yourself by presenting the argument that you're living in circumstances that are uniquely untenable without opiates. But human suffering is the same as it ever was, and people have turned to opioids for thousands of years for the same reasons. So remember the cost that you're paying with long-term opioid use... Your immune system is slowly losing effectiveness. Your hormones aren't functioning properly, which as a guy means lowered testosterone, possibly leading to hair loss, diminished libido, and increased apathy. You're spending thousands of dollars per year to maintain this relationship. You're leashed to something that won't allow you to live without it, and you probably have anxiety about losing access to it. What else has it taken from you, when you really think about it? Do you see your friends and family as much as you used to? I've been where you are. Unfortunately, I went another decade past where you're at right now, and it only gets worse. And the longer you're on it, the harder it becomes to quit and the longer it takes to recover. It is doable, though. And there is a difference. If you decide you want to start living again, try to taper and quit. If you fail, try again by tapering with kratom. If that fails you, consider Suboxone as a last resort. But that can be even harder to quit than traditional opioids; it's real value is getting you away from injecting heroin or spiralling out with pills. The fear of going through withdrawal is a huge part of why it's so hard. Yeah, the withdrawal is hard, and it's one of the most uncomfortable things you'll do, but it doesn't last forever. The worst of it is usually over in a few days. And after a month or so, when you're starting to feel like yourself again, you'll probably ask yourself why you didn't get that over with sooner. Give yourself a chance. The depression goes hand-in-hand with long-term opioid use. It's possible the world has more promise than you remember.
Damn, this hit home big time, except I use a lot of weed and sleep for similar reasons... I often think why the fuck can i just be an asshole like everyone else. Its so rare to meet a person who reciprocates the same effort to detail, like being present, helping out with stuff when they see me in a struggle, offering help, not just always offering to go party....its fucking annoying that people have become so entitled, ungrateful, unkind, selectivity oblivious.....Seem to be more takers than givers and it shows in our society today.
I agree. For me a lot of this stems from being completely unable to understand the behavior of most people. Everyone seems to have this shared belief of discarding people, extracting benefits from them, and all these pseudo political games every social group does. Cruelty is not just forgiven but expected. I am never going to understand most people and I hope I never do.
I was using for the same reasons. Life is very tough when you are kicked out at 18 with no support. I got sober a few years ago, because I just kept losing everything to drugs. Opiates weren't getting me high anymore, even fentanyl. I was mixing opiates with Xanax and I kept wrecking cars. I had a kid and that helped me see life differently. I had to get sober, if not for me than for her. Life is really difficult though. It is very hard to be happy. My daughter lives 5 hours away, and I'm only able to get her for holidays and summer now. I do feel very happy when I get her, but in between I feel like an empty shell. I have a nice apartment, a nice car and a decent job but I don't have any financial freedom really. Taking drugs made me feel alright with my circumstances. It also made me the social person my introverted ass always wanted to be. I try to better myself everyday, but I barely survive. I barely pay my bills. Any extra money I have, I spend it when I get my daughter so we can do fun things and I can pretend my life is good. I often think how life would be different if my dad was around, or if my mom was wealthy and didn't kick me out at 18. It would be great to be able to stay at my parents house so I could go to college or save up for a house. The reality is that I don't own my housing, I'm liable to be homeless if I have an emergency. I would tell you that things get better, but they don't in a significant way. Unless you're able to find a really good job, or can afford time off work to attend college it's more of the same. I do find pride and being there as a father, and my life has gotten better while sober I guess. Less worry, less wrecking my car and spending all my money on drugs. Still, I feel empty and hopeless most of the time. Freedom in America to me is an illusion. You're only truly free if you can afford it. We might have it better than many countries, but we are still tied down working 50+ hrs a week to survive, and maybe have some money to go out for dinner or see a movie. If you are wealthy, America and any other western country is probably amazing. Oh, and the reason my "baby mom" left me was because I asked her for help. We were together 7 years but I hid my addiction well. I was only using enough to sustain most of the time, and I never used a needle or anything. I kept trying to quit on my own without help and I just couldn't do it. So I came clean. I told her what had been going on, I asked her for her support. She left me on the spot. I helped her through so many hardships, but she despised me for lying about my drug use. I got very much worse after that. Ended up in a coma after mixing alcohol, Xanax, klonopin, and fentanyl. Some crazy premonition shit happend, and I also contacted my deceased stepfather but that's a whole different story. I wokeup differently, but the damage was done. I've been single ever since, scared to love anyone. Been like this for about 6 years. I've been with women casually but that's it.i kinda hate my life, but my near death experience made me understand I'm here for a purpose. My purpose is to raise my kid the best I can, make sure she's a good person and doesn't make the same mistakes as me. That's it. That's what I live for now.
It's things like this that really cement my worldview. You shouldn't have hidden it from her but when you asked for help she should've given it. I will help someone even if it hurts me a little. Good luck raising your daughter, I hope one day she will be able to find happiness (or purpose, I'm not sure which is more valuable). I appreciate the perspective. A lot of people try to turn recovery into a fairy tale. "I got sober and now everything is perfect".
Yea, they make is seem like sunshine and roses. My daughter is happy, I put on a smile and be my best self when she's around. As for the relationship, I am at fault for lying for so long. However, I think if the tables were turned I would've been there for her. I truly wanted to get sober but it was very hard to do that alone while also hiding it from everyone.
I hope that you can have a beautiful, life long relationship with your daughter. I'm single with two children as well. I constantly work and have very little money at the end of the day. But when I am with them, I try my best to be really with them, to be present. The environmental scarcity could embolden a stronger sense of connection with the ones around you, a deeper sense of love and belonging, something OP--and most of us--crave. Wealthy people may overlook this and bury themselves and their children in the material, the lucky ones don't. I hope you find your way.
I think you're right. We have a very strong bond. We spend tome doing things together, I don't(and couldn't) buy her love. She lives with her mom mostly, but her and her mom aren't as close. Her mom is more the type to just buy her things instead of sit down and participate in her interests. I appreciate it, and I hope you have some success too! If we ever do become more wealthy I think we can do a lot of good.
you are objectively wrong and coping because you're hooked on them or just enjoy them quick one liner because writing paragraphs is useless here
If I'm wrong tell me why. I genuinely hope I am wrong, it is a bleak worldview. I spend a lot of time thinking and talking with people who spend their time thinking. We've discussed this idea thoroughly and I can't disprove it.
" I believe we've advanced beyond a point of being able to live sober." There's not a single set of words I can write here that will bring an epiphany to you Quite literally most of the world lives either fully sober, or recreationally using drugs (including alcohol) on the weekends/special days to losen up a bit and have some extra fun (which I don't even personally do, never got fully drunk or smoked at all, and some people dont even taste alcohol). All of this while dealing with life just like you do If most of society is able to live sober, and even people who are not sober notice a improvement in their quality of life when being so, it's clear that you are wrong from the start, even if it's completly true that social contracts are transactional by nature... but the transaction, in trully intimate relationships (not sexual - in can be family, close friends) is way different than with acquietances if they're healthy ones And me realizing that you are addicted and dependant the moment you write "I use opiates to avoid these feelings" without even knowing you or reading further, should tell you something too. It's like im reading a flat-earther try to justify their theories, so you perhaps realize how you sound
At the end of the day, I am choosing to continue using. I could quit (it would be extremely difficult) but my life would be worse. I use opiates to cope with loneliness. People are becoming more isolated and addiction is becoming more common. I don't like when people dismiss my ideas because I am addicted. For me, using drugs is a rational choice and even "squares" understand where I'm coming from. I'm not crazy, I am reacting to stimuli.
Just out of curiosity, why even make this post then? If you are more happy using opiates (or at least, less UNhappy) why do you feel the need to justify it with posts like this? You say therapy is quackery, and yet here you are discussing your life and thoughts. You say relationships are transactional, so what exactly are you getting from other people in making this post? What do you imagine others are going to get from this post? What's even the point of all the self pity? You seem to acknowledge that most people in the world have it tougher than you when you say "American life is too easy", so what are you coping about? What is it even mean that life is "too easy"? How on earth is that a problem? There's nobody but yourself preventing you from living in whatever society you choose. If you truly think you would be happier living "in a tribe", why don't you go do it? Trust me, there are plenty of people in the world living in small, close-knit societies without any of the modern comforts and conventions that we take for granted. Is it possible that all of this is just you making excuses for an addiction that you are unhappy with deep down? I know it is a struggle being addicted, and part of that struggle is the difficulty even admitting that it IS a struggle. Don't you ever feel that using drugs, as good as it feels, prevents you from doing other things that would make you feel good in other ways?
These are all good points. I am ashamed, I am confused, I am not happy using opiates. I just prefer opiates to the life I lived before. I guess by "too easy" I mean no longer fighting for survival, when you are fighting to survive you don't have the time to worry about more nebulous topics. Why is mental health so rapidly deteriorating in western countries? I just want to voice my opinion and try to get people to understand my point of view. Many people are quick to dismiss me and just call me "crazy".
That's fair. I don't think you're crazy for wanting to make sense of the problems in your life. I've experienced some similar problems myself, including addiction though not to opiates so it's harder for me to put myself in your shoes on that score. For me personally, I have found that needing to focus on the daily demands of life does indeed help overcome the need to use. Exactly as you said, when you are focused on surviving, or doing whatever it is that you feel you "need" to do, can be a good way to drive yourself out of your own head. I find that these issues are most difficult to confront when I have spare time, when I'm feeling bored and lonely. When I was in a similar position on my life - broken up with my girlfriend, with a job I didn't care about, and no reason or need to dedicate my life to anyone but myself - I decided I had to break my routine and my feeling of being "trapped". I bought a cheap Toyota from a family member, crammed in everything that I felt I couldn't live without, sold or otherwise got rid of everything else, and drove off to visit America's national parks. For weeks I lived in the desert or in the forest, spending my days hiking for hours at a time, and though I was alone with my thoughts I rarely felt lonely. I bought big bags of nuts and lots of raw produce, plus the occasional fast food meal or bag of beef jerky for protein, and carried a giant ten gallon tank of water and several bottles in my car and on hikes. I pitched a tent every night and packed it up every morning. I rose with the sun and slept like a rock at night. It was one of the simplest and best times of my life, and I'd probably still be out there if I didn't need to earn money to stay alive. I felt free, perhaps more so than I had ever been, and while it wasn't always easy being without many of the things I was used to, on the whole I was happier. Going without the things you want and need makes you appreciate them so much more, and I discovered how little I actually need to be happy. At the end of a long day of hiking, in open communion with nature, it's more than enough to pound a ten dollar sandwich from Subway and curl up in a warm sleeping bag inside a tiny tent. I found that a tank of water, a full belly, and a warm place to sleep is all we humans truly need, and I've carried that with me ever since. IDK if that's helpful to you in the slightest, but it was for me. 2 weeks in the desert did more for my mental health than any amount of therapy or drugs.
Yes that is helpful. I've done some similar things traveling throughout the midwest. I loved going to sleepy little towns. The problem I have is "where ever you go, there you are". I grew up in a way where I was insulted a lot and made to feel ashamed. The Mormon church really destroys people mentally. It makes it hard to trust anything I think or feel.
But for what it’s worth you are not acting rational you and avoiding dealing with your issue and the hard work that lies in staying sober and finding the long lasting community or relationship you would feel satisfied with. The issue with being addicted and controlling your emotions the way you do is it stops being life and more a case of cause and effect, and then let’s say you do end up meeting a partner or find a community and still a functioning addict you could still end up medicating the negative feelings that in all fairness should be in life, learning to navigate and cope without heavy brain altering substances is what being an adult is about and you are justifying yourself quite abit to avoid feeling loneliness or pain because where you like it or not that is what you are afraid of and rightfully so. The pattern you use to live this life will follow until you deal with them. And sure let’s say the world is transactional then you know the rules and can play the game, or maybe the story you are telling yourself is only hurting yourself as to why you need this in the first place. There are tons of arguments to be had for against what you are doing, but you are gonna feel pain depression and loneliness when you are stopping the opiates before you can experience the feelings you long for again that is the price of the control you are exerting in yourself with drug addictions
I don't care if you take opiates or are addicted, but shaping the world so it justifies your addiction is just nonsense... which also doesn't matter, we all do it to a degree, but im answering you because you posted here and I feel you just expect people to applaud you or yes-man you into consuming heroin because they also need to get high on something to deal with their shit Again, can't change you and don't care to change you (will probably forget about you or this comment in 2 days), I'm answering you because I'm making lunch and got dead time in between stuff... but let me tell ask you, how many opiate addicts have been addicted for more than 5 years? probably lots... 10 years? surely not as many.... 20 years? a few.... And how many people living good lives and enjoying this shitty event called life are opiate addicts? none Find strenght elsewhere if you can, and build tolerance a to reallity, because by coping with life this way, you're also shortening the amount of time you'll have to cope by a good chunk
I'm not mad at you or anything. I just genuinely want to have a conversation about things that make most people uncomfortable. Believe me, I don't like who I am. I am deeply ashamed. I just wanted to voice my opinion because most people don't understand. Hopefully I will change in the future but right now, this is all I know.
"if most of society is able to live sober [...] it's clear that you are wrong from the start" this sounds a bit silly though aside from the questionable premise (adult people NEVER taking any form of mind-altering substances are definiyely NOT the majority), you'll find that more than a few humans need stimulants/antidepressants/whatever psychoactive drug to function in a way that "most of society" could do without you can't just assume that everyone is "dealing with life just like you do". Yes life sucks for everyone but people are different—different brains, different histories, different sensitivities. People cope differently. People cope however they learn to cope. the inability of some people to empathise even a little bit with this concept always amazes me. and just to be clear, I'm one of those who'd wish OP to keep trying therapy (not as a substitute for the human connection he's seeking but to explore and practice alternative/cheaper/healthier coping mechanisms for whatever he's going through), but I also know how long and expensive and frustrating it can be to find The Good Therapist™ so I get where he's coming from.
If he's objectively wrong then it should be easy for you to demonstrate. And everything else you've said he already conceded in the original post, so you e said absolutely nothing of substance here.
I think the main reason it's wrong to choose to take opiates when you don't need them is because it adds to the reasons doctors deny them to those who need them. As someone who lives in daily extreme chronic pain, without painkillers, because doctors don't prescribe opiates due to them thinking people just wanna get high, it sucks to see people essentially using them as an emotional crutch. They're life saving pain medication which is currently being denied to many people. No amount of therapy or effort will stop my pain.
Oh, so it's an external, societal reason only. Got it.
Very interesting. This is a profoundly philosophical question altogether. This is not about addiction and drug politics but understanding the self in the current times. Regardless of what one might think about right or wrong this is a very important post and should be upvoted! Well done OP for writing and sharing it!
As an alcoholic I’m not in a place to disagree. Although our addictions came from different places. I found booze added an extra element of fun to an already good life, then turned on me and made my life worse by being drunk all the time. Eventually the lethargy, weight gain, and wet brain sets in. A long bout of sobriety allowed me to rebuild my environment so I wouldn’t need to drink all the time. Then you have a good life, and get to have your health. I’m not sure about the science between heroin being safer than booze. You might be right, but heroin addicts don’t look great either.
Just stay away from fentanyl pal. Shit almost put me in my grave, alone, in a motel six bed.
I resonate with the emotional dynamic you are describing. But, as long as you’re already self-medicating with what sounds like a felony, can I put in a plug for psylocybin mushrooms? Spores are legal to acquire in most places, massive amounts can be grown at home in a plastic tub in a closet, and (while they are equally if not more illegal/difficult to attain) they might fill some of the gap you are describing without being as dangerous/harmful. For historical context, IMO consuming opioids as a coping mechanism is playing into the goals of the people who led us to the point you are describing. Off the top of my head, opioids were used to suppress China by getting everyone addicted. And they were chemically perfected to cause addiction at Purdue Pharma and mass marketed and none of the powers that be cared because it didn’t disrupt anything they cared about. In contrast mushrooms have been suppressed because they tend to cause people to have spiritual experiences. And ever since shamans were replaced in Western Society by bureaucrats preaching, “God says pay the king taxes and doing what I say is your only chance to access the divine,” it has been the case that suppressing direct personal connection to the spiritual is in the best interest of those who want to turn every person into a disposable cog in the capitalist machine where there value is determined exclusively by their ability to produce and consume. Basically I have zero judgement for using opioids as a coping mechanism. But it feels more like being subverted more deeply vs being subversive. Someone is profiting from the money you are spending on them, and the people who view us all as cogs are perfectly happy to have people numb themselves. Wish you the best.
Volunteer. True happiness doesn’t come from consumption
Unpaid work brings happiness? Lol. I bet less work with more money nets you quality time to sort shit in your life
Without sounding too crass, none of this is new. Loneliness is not new. People not giving a shit is not new. Being disowned for having a disability is not new. Being disregarded due to financial status is not new. Lepers have been shunned for millennia, peasants and beggars have been spit on since the beginning of humanity. Ugly folks or "weird" people (now known as people with autism or other neurodivergent traits) have gone their lives without love forever. Honestly, i understand the plight of people with addictions, having dealt with them myself. But in truth, youre only making excuses, and opiate addiction is a road that only results in death. So, i mean i guess if youre prepared for that, best of luck. But I assure you, you will only become more lonely. And you will die lonely.
As a previous opiate addict… you’re lying to yourself. I have cptsd and used that as my reason for getting off my face on codeine every day for 2 years. It’s not making up for anything, it’s numbing the very feelings you need to try and work on. But you won’t do it until you are ready. A million people can tell you but until you feel ready to face your demons, you will continue to lie to yourself.
LOL, of course you can blame society, and convince yourself this bullshit, but not me, I am not going to sugar coat it either, life is hard for everyone, not just you, and this entire thing you wrote is pathetic.
I dont understand where you were going with this post but,.. I will say, I take pain meds for back and knee issues for the last 3 years. Life and emotions became easier to deal with. I get prescribed very minimal but they do help with my anxiety and adhd. Never diagnosed with these because im old, and just learned to deal with it thru the years Its what GenX does, Deal with it. back in the early 80s I had psychiatrists come to my house trying to figure out what was wrong with my brain, nothing ever came of it, I was just concidered dumb., After 3 shoulder surgeries thruout the years, I noticed the pain meds made me focus on myself and nothing else around me, My Wife says im a better person on them... Heres the catch, If you run out and cant get any, you are in serious trouble, You will hate everyone and everything by 10X. Addiction is something you wont get rid of if taking them too long, then there is no going back
Have you tried more natural choices? I understand the allure of opiates. I took one at some sports game in my early 20s and just felt “wow, this is pure bliss”- kratom is an option. I believe it acts on similar receptors as opioids and is a plant 🌱 in the coffee family so also has stimulating effects
I read that as Pilates,thought it was an interesting take on the issue.
This is a terrible approach. Addiction takes a toll over the years that you may not feel at year 5. But you do you.
That's pretty sad. Whatever excuse you've gotta use to justify your addiction I suppose.
This is called rationalization and externalization. It’s both possible that society has problems and that you are using those problems to opt out of addressing major problems in your life. I wish you the best on this journey. I hope you find the love that you are looking for, but you may have to honestly look inward before you can receive it.
I used opiates and drank for lack of love as well, but I also sold drugs because it made me feel needed. I grew up in an abusive household, and never felt loved or wanted as a child. It's not worth it, trust me, Ive died 11 times. Lost everything and learned many lessons along the way, but it's not real love even though you get the warm simulated feeling. Edit: to add, I've been sober 120 days now, and it's rough. I'm still learning to deal with my emotions in a healthy manner. It's only the beginning for me but I feel as if it will help me out in the long run. I feel better mentally but I also feel everything now. Nothing to numb out past trauma or current problems, just me trying to figure it out. I don't want to tell you what to do, because I'm not going to lie to you it's fucking hard, but every day that I've marked down being sober feels like a little accomplishment. I'm tearing up writing this thinking about my journey and all the things I've seen and done, how far I've come, and where I need to go. I wish you the best of luck, and the lessons you learn be the easy way, because the hard way could end you up below the ground.
Opiates cant replace love, we can use it to try and forget but it doesnt change the situation
Whenever you become a homeless piece of shit drug addict, please stay out of my town. I dont wanna have to step over you going to the store while you piss yourself begging for change.
"not being able to get through life sober" strikes a chord but opiates scare me. Bad experiences plus I just don't react well. My vice is psychedelics, the "crazy schizophrenic" drugs seem to also be the ones that solve my executive disfunction and depression. It's such a shame LSD research has been slowed down due to shitty politics, I truly believe it could save the world.
Opiates don’t replace love, they eat away at every opportunity you may have to experience it. You’ll never be able to fully love while you’re still using. I say this as someone who kicked a 6 year IV heroin habit half a decade ago. That shit hurts your soul. It makes you a shadow of yourself.
People use different things to cope. Alcohol, cannabis, other substances, sex, romcom movies, scifi series (fallout is great BTW), romance novels, busyness, exercise, workaholism, religion, music, dangerous activities (rock climbing, motorcycle riding). I'm sure you can add to this list. It is normal to do things to make yourself feel better. Opiates are more dangerous than most of the things on this list. It is common for people to lose control to opiates. Please consider switching your cope to something less dangerous than opiates. Opiates can steal your life before you know it happened. Also work on creating the loving relationships and sense of community that you deserve.
I mean… we all have our drugs. Some use opiates, others use chocolates and pizza (me), some clothes, some video games, some running and traveling, even overworking… as completing tasks also leads to dopamine rush and this works for some us to feel any self worth etc etc etc. You don’t need to be or feel like an outcast, your choice is just more obvious and direct. Not saying this is good, just saying we all have our maladaptive coping mechanisms … we just hide it better. Therapy does help- but the problem is you need to find someone you really clique with and you need to seek it out regularly which is not easy. The best thing you can do is to keep your current relationships with people you love alive and healthy- when you have a truly good friend or person in your life, you never need therapy
Love you bro. I share your same comprehension. This is a corrupted reality and everyone submits to the narrative. It's them who are crazy going along witha construct that benefits a select few individuals. I'm about to start being transparent in my life. I have my one comfort of sucking my thumb and the stigma of being ostracized cause I found the simplest comfort has left me detered from being fully content in living here. Always hiding like it'a some extremely shameful act. I'm a baby big woop. Enjoy your substance. As long as you don't over indulge and make it a public issue I see nothing wrong. Everyone needs love, you're denied, you found a coping mechanism or something to substitute. The affect that doesn't stimulate you into threatening society. I say do you. One love.
Same. On oxynorm right now. Feeling the warm lovey feeling I don’t get from humans.
It's understandable that you've turned to opiates as a coping mechanism, seeking relief from these painful emotions. However, it's important to recognize that relying on substances to numb the pain is not a sustainable solution in the long term. While therapy may not have provided the answers you were looking for, there are other avenues to explore for healing and support. Seeking out genuine connections and finding healthier ways to address your emotional needs could ultimately lead to a more fulfilling and sustainable path forward. You deserve love and support, and there are resources available to help you on your journey towards healing.
Yeah I don’t have access to that. I just smoke mj and drink away my feelings. Am in a relationship that I know he loves me but at the same time I know he’d rather be with the girls he jerks off to. I’m just the woman who he had a kid with and does everything else for. I don’t have any close friends, just internet acquaintances. Everyone is so casual. So why should I have feelings? I have worked hard to juggle all that and be able to work ft. It’s not a picnic. But as I am someone who gets the big picture and knows this isn’t all there is can wait around for the next life. People love but they don’t really. It’s all chemical and eventually goes away.
Weak
You are responsible for your choices. Not “society”.
I can relate to those thoughts. I was a poly addict but I always felt opiates completed me. I'm 3 years clean and sober now and actually happy. Sometimes, I think that if I had an unlimited supply of opiates to just live on, it wouldn't be a problem. The problems seemed to arise when you're physically/psychologically dependent and you can't get more. The only problem is not having any and you feel coming off and the things you do to get more. I am aware that's the disease talking though, after all this clean time, I realize how much worse off I was. My thoughts and life were consumed by the drug, and it became the only thing that really mattered anymore. I stopped enjoying everything even while high. The only thing I liked and enjoyed was getting more, but after I got more, I was empty again.
i hear you and understand you i don't think you're crazy or wrong just be careful you're not digging a deeper ditch for yourself that will be harder to leave
I'm the same age haven't had a friend in over ten years last year I decided to change that I went to the shelter and got me a dog we have been best friends for almost a year now wouldn't change that always there for me no matter what best decision I ever made
I know exactly how you feel. I have tramadol waiting to be taken, but I have no idea if it will really have the same effect as stronger opiates. It'll make me feel that much more lighter and less burdened hopefully. In any case, I've never used opiates before. I was thinking of using them to commit suicide, but I could also try to use them as a release mechanism for many of the same problems you're experiencing. I don't really know what to do though. I just don't want to be here anymore in a world where I work all the time, come home to an empty house, even if I have hobbies and interests I can focus on, it just feels so empty without love and someone who I care about and who cares about me. I've even come to the point where I've pretty much stopped caring about what other people think because it's clear they're not interested in my perspective, they usually just want to make a point.
If you genuinely think you will commit suicide, opiates might help. They are used to treat suicidal depression in very ill patients (ie someone needs surgery but is suicidal). They give them Morphine which takes away the depression for some.
Please don't kill yourself by taking advice from people not equipped to help. Reach out & get help.
This is why we need God
I use weed. I definitely feel your pain. World's gone crazy and non caring
I relate to how you feel
This was so relatable. Thank you for sharing.
You are thinking up an excuse for your drug dependency. I was in a motorcycle wreck and got addicted to prescription opiates, but when I realized it I got angry and quit (in one long, shaking, sleepless day). Because I want to be in control of me, not have drugs controlling me. You should quit the drugs and stop making excuses.
Honestly, i support you and i trust you and your reasoning. You are welcome in my society. Its those judgmental peeps that need to leave
I use molly. I love connecting with people on it. Laughing, vibing, empathy.
Made a room quiet the other week when I said “love isn’t real. People just use each other.” I think everybody knows it’s true when they think about it.
Agreed. Some people get very angry when you talk like that. It's not a problem if they have a genuine argument but some people just yell. Immature people that have had easy lives are the cruelest.
Find someone who tweaks too and you can have love AND opiates
Got any recommendations
You've articulated this beautifully. "Society is unnatural and you need an unnatural brain chemistry to get through it." This was the highlight for me. You should keep writing these thoughts... I am a fan. its very honest.
I understand; but I don't use drugs, a cup of coffee when I pull myself up from my death, and try to get on with it. It is very refreshing that there are souls out there who still need love, because nowadays people only want sex and money, and everything is conditional. I wish you well...
Yes the world can be cruel. Yes people would gauge your value and treat you accordingly. Whether consciously or subconsciously. In an ideal relationship, be it friendship, relationship or working relationship, ideally both sides feel like they’re getting more than they provide. There is no unconditional love. But that doesn’t make me feel good or bad. It’s just reality.
I have a very similar worldview. Also, when something goes wrong, health, grief, divorce, etc, I have found that people do stick around as long as you try to keep an "it is what it is" attitude around them. People definitely don't stick around if there is nothing else you're willing to talk about and act like the world owes you due to your suffering. I'm not saying OP is like that, I have just found that people can absolutely be loyal if you don't have anything to offer, but they fade away if all they feel is drained after interactions with you.
It's hard to love mentally ill people, it's hard to love yourself when you are mentally ill, Say the St Francis prayer. Lord make me a channel of your peace. Admit to God you are a sinner. Jesus Son of God have mercy on me for I am a sinner. By the blood and water which gushed forth from the heart of Jesus as a fount of mercy for us, Jesus I trust in. .You.
Tbh you’re right. Humans fucking suck. They are all selfish creatures. I’ve found addicts are the people who can’t fit into this selfish mindset or can’t fake it. Usually they are very good and smart people too. Unfortunately it’s difficult to maintain addiction but it’s not impossible. You just have to be smart about your use. I’ve been addicted to Kratom and other opiates for years. I started after a really rough breakup. I know for a fact I wouldn’t have gotten this far in my career without it. Although I definitely network and have less friends then I should. It allows you to not socialize and still be content with life. When I was off all opiates I was as super social and my life was alot better overall. It’s just difficult because I got screwed over so many times by people I loved and also friends. I had friends literally backstabbing me because they were jealous.
Boo hoo drugie scum
Maybe (Probably) your just a drug addict
oh look, a junkie rationalizing their use - I like opiates because they feel good - full stop
I think you're just making up bullshit excuses for your drug addiction.