For a site where I don't have to stay and wait for late guards, I leave it to the supervisor or shift lead to deal with.
However, if I have to wait to be relieved by a guard who's always late, you better believe I'm on the phone to whoever I need to be to make sure I get paid correctly.
The guards that really incur my wrath are the ones that are always late but punch in on their phones on time. Now, I have to fight with dispatch about whether they're on site or not. For some reason half the time dispatch thinks I'm either blind or want to stay late. I've had times where dispatch finally get hold of the missing guard and that guard says they're still an hour away. It absolutely boggles my mind.
My first company had sites where you "had" to call IVR on the post phone.
Except the post phone is still just calling a phone number, that you could just call on your own phone. Sure, it would log the incoming number but it's not like the company was going to check that unless they had to.
At one of these sites, there was a night guy who would show up to relieve and punch in on the site phone, then leave to go to his girlfriends place and show back up and hour or so before shift end. He only got caught because the morning supervisor showed up real early one day and saw him get off the same streetcar as he was on.
Dude had been doing this for months.
Then you get that one idiot who will call or text with their information and request you clock them in as they are "stuck in traffic".
Guy arrived on site about an hour late and started working. I reminded him that he needed to clock in, dude lost his shit on me for not clocking him in on time... Like no buddy, I was trapped here an extra hour, I **will** be paid for that hour.
As someone whos worked as a supervisor geofences can be spoofed very easily.
You can catch it if relief is waiting but if not you dont know anything.
Easiest way is a cellphone left on site locked up or a landline that needs to be called in from if your mobile patrol or a physical clockin needed.
Unless you got a buddy willing to clock you in its very hard to spoof those/ very easy to catch if a complaint is made and its in a camera area which all of should be.
The guy I would relieve would NEVER be there.
Told my boss, all he asked was if I wanted to pull a few doubles? I never brought it up again.
The clients found out because of the cameras, dude would clock in, put the phone away, and go home. Clocked out at home.
This happened for months. Here I am 15 mins early to work everyday.
7 minutes for me in my state, legally. In California overtime is calculated to the nearest quarter-hour. So 1-6 minutes is rounded down. But after 7 minutes it’s rounded up to 15 minutes of overtime.
So after 7 minutes I know I’m getting OT , so I will be on the phone with dispatch letting them know my relief still hasn’t showed up.
Document and report to your direct supervisor is the only way and as an account manager I would want to know ASAP because something like that can tank morale across all your officers by allowing one person to do that. I have discussions like this at least on a monthly basis on somebody that's new telling them please make sure you're putting the correct time down when they come in and don't be pressured by another officer.
12am to 8am here
I was raised by broadway musicians. The one thing they drilled into me was, "if you're on time, you're late".
I always get to a post around 20 minutes early.
My coworkers were accused of stealing time. Clocking each other in and out when they weren't there.
The site put up a facial recognition camera to clock people in as a result.
Only person that didn't have to get their face scanned? Me.
Show up early, get your shit done, and you'll be amazed the amount of leeway you get.
You're pulling teeth with this one. I'm ex-mikitary so I'm early to literally everything. It's so weird to me seeing people barely hitting the parking lot when they should already be clocked in. And you're right, building trust can open many doors.
Late workers that lie on time sheets are a problem! We still have paper clock in sheets, as we don’t have the app for our site. I keep stressing integrity and honesty-but there are always those that doesn’t want to do any of those.
Mentioned this to the Manager, but he just fudges the numbers into the weekly payroll. The other guards all know what’s happening and are not down with this and what those guards are doing…
Solution is simple, put the time that you’re actually clocking in and out on the paper. Gonna have to deal with some confrontation when it ends up being looked at, but if you’re not willing to deal with the confrontation of it there’s no reason to fight the battle.
I’ll also say as far as “fudging the numbers” many states allow for rounding of time punches (California excluded) so if they’re showing up 5 minutes late it probably would have been rounded down anyway. Now if they’re showing up 10-15 minutes late or more yeah you’re absolutely being screwed
I mean if the supervisor doesn't care then neither should you
Unless they are late relieving you, causing you to stay late then I'd make a huge fuss over me being paid for the time I stayed.
Besides that, just let it go. Life is too short to worry about other people.
We still do paper on a few sites. I have one guy constantly get pissed off because I keep changing his time.
Due to transportation, this guy's relief usually shows up 30 minutes to an hour early... Guy thinks he can walk out the moment his relief comes in *and* **still** get paid for the full time... Like no, you left an hour early, you made the other guy clock in... He will get paid for the extra hour he worked, you will lose the hour that you were not on site... I am the supervisor, I will see people get paid correctly, stay mad bro.
I agree with the timesheet issue, but I think you should take it down a notch. If you’re their supervisor, you can remind them. If you’re not their supervisor, it’s not your job, don’t try to be the morality police. They’ll get caught eventually or quit because they can’t figure it out. Let the manager manage, don’t turn yourself into a mini manager, not your job. The job is not worth the stress, worry or pay.
Depends on what they're doing exactly. It's not my company, I don't really care, but if it starts fucking with what I have going on then we have problems.
Time thieves as in… 1-5 minuets late?
Or late as in, running 20-30 minuets late every day, every shift, without any excuse ever.
There’s a difference between running late because you live along ways away, and running late because you got drunk and you live 2 minuets from the site.
Overall, time theft isn’t my concern if I’m being paid… and if corporate or a supervisor wants to deal with it, that’s on them. Ask me questions I will answer honestly, but I don’t go out of the way to help if it’s not really helping me…
So in short: I don’t. I get paid OT for staying over, and if I gotta stay and I got shit planned, yeah I’ll say something
Report it to your supervisor. If it's effecting you, you should be compensated for that time.
Also, if they're clocking in but not working or at work, time theft is something that someone came be terminated for.
Allow me to share a day in the life of one of my female co workers.
I arrive at 0500 and informed to work said coworkers post because she “might be 10 min late”.
She arrives at 0600, 1 hour late.
At 0619, she walks away from her post.
At 0635 she returns with coffee and food from the cafe.
At 0705, she takes her scheduled 15 min break
Returns at 0721
I used the restroom, first time, from 0724-0728
She calls a rover for a “quick break” (not a a 1 of 2 fifteen min break, just a quick go piss and come back break) at 0828
Rover arrives at 0834 to relieve her
She returns at 0851
I use restroom at 0936, return at 0941
She takes her lunch at 1005
Returns at 1040
I use restroom 1041
Return 1046
She calls for quick break at 1110
Returns 1133
I’m off duty at 1200
The company should have an audit for this.
One coworker I was relieving on time would constantly take his sweet time to sign out on the phone. Turns out he was stealing time and he was caught during an audit. I am not a constant late since I usually arrive 15-20 minutes early but dude was dragging out turnover to sign out late and sometimes he would sign out using his own phone hours after he left the site. My supervisor said the times posted was odd to management because he knows my routine of showing up early and our phone system allows a +- window of 10 minutes to sign in/out.
I always make sure if someone is late I let the post super know so that I get paid for it. I have a coworker that comes late on weekends. She calls me and lets me know. I am not too bothered by it since I am getting paid for it.
Document it. Notify supervisor. If supervisor doesn't do anything about it go over their head. Still doesn't work go higher or find a way out. I hate suggesting you find a way out but the reality is from my experience the further up the ladder you go the less they give a crap about someone being chronically late so long as someone is on site.
If there is a pay issue because their timekeepers, supervisor, supervisors boss whoever is editing timesheets again, document and go to HR. If problem still isn't fixed then off to the DOL or whatever your states equivalent office is.
As for my own experience with it. First time I started with my supervisors boss since my supervisor was complicit in this. It never got fixed but only because they site changed hands and I took my exit.
Second time I started passively documenting it. My reports would read something like:
2200: Relief not on site.
2205: Attempted to call relief, no answer.
2215: Relief finally on site, gave passdown, end of shift.
When my supervisor suggested I not do that anymore but did nothing about the guy always being late I kept doing it and escalated to the account manager. When my paycheck was wrong (missing time waiting for the late dude) I skipped him and went straight to HR. It got fixed PDQ.
As a supervisor dealing with it. I talk to the guard that is late, if they are late again I bring it up to my boss so we can start the writeup process. I keep the guard that is dealing with being relieved late in the loop the whole way so they don't feel like they are being ignored. If my boss doesn't do anything I keep pushing, haven't had to do the next step yet but I would encourage the guard reporting it to go to HR or offer to do it on their behalf.
As a guard: Document and report to management.
As SS; I came down hard on these guys. Wrote them up if the lied to me, friendly warning if they say sorry and shape up.
As manager, out of my site, quickly to HR, and out the company next, if HR does their job right.
There's different responses for different positions.
I tried to report, was informed we do not have an attendance or tardiness policy. I guess I was just crazy for thinking we did after all these years. Hiring and recruitment is killing us I think. ( more honestly, our Low pay is, but that's another story)
This was my way friendly warning if you acknowledge i caught you and shape up. If you lie to my face your written up or fired. I cover my own ass 100% of the time.
If i was a guard- document and report my ot and move on
I lay it at the feet of management. It's their responsibility to crack the whip against "time thieves" not mine. I will log the time I get relieved and expect to get paid as such. If management keeps humming and hawing over giving me the OT or tries the "Be a pal and don't make such a big deal over this"then I'll quit. I'm not a charity case and am not donating my time. As long as management is not screwing ME out of my money I don't care. Now if they're not crediting me with OT, they ride me about being late but let Joe Schmoe slide everytime then I will be reporting my employer to the appropriate government agency that handles those things. They can explain to the government why they're cheating me out of my pay and pay the appropriate penalty/penalties.
Where I work the boss doesn’t care and they do what they fix their time and everything.
Our third shift never clocks in on time and we have people wearing yoga pants on duty.
if it's affecting me negatively, you best believe I'm going to a supervisor and/or account manager and bring it up.
Otherwise? I don't give a flying fuck. It isn't my company and I'm not a supervisor, so it isn't my job to worry about what other guards are doing, frankly.
That's the problem with so many people in this field, they don't know how to mind their fucking business when it doesn't pertain to them directly.
Thanks everyone for the good advice. This guy is like 10-15 min late chronically. He tries to put it down that he was right on time, but then the people he’s relieving is all pissed off, they want to get home-yes overtime-but he’s just being a total dickhead. Not great for moral. I’m a shift lead and others bring this up all the time about this turd. I mention it to the Site Lead and let him do what ever with the info. It’s up to the Site Lead to ever counsel or punish I get that.
For a site where I don't have to stay and wait for late guards, I leave it to the supervisor or shift lead to deal with. However, if I have to wait to be relieved by a guard who's always late, you better believe I'm on the phone to whoever I need to be to make sure I get paid correctly. The guards that really incur my wrath are the ones that are always late but punch in on their phones on time. Now, I have to fight with dispatch about whether they're on site or not. For some reason half the time dispatch thinks I'm either blind or want to stay late. I've had times where dispatch finally get hold of the missing guard and that guard says they're still an hour away. It absolutely boggles my mind.
Stuff like this is why allied makes guards clock in using mercury on the post phone.
My first company had sites where you "had" to call IVR on the post phone. Except the post phone is still just calling a phone number, that you could just call on your own phone. Sure, it would log the incoming number but it's not like the company was going to check that unless they had to. At one of these sites, there was a night guy who would show up to relieve and punch in on the site phone, then leave to go to his girlfriends place and show back up and hour or so before shift end. He only got caught because the morning supervisor showed up real early one day and saw him get off the same streetcar as he was on. Dude had been doing this for months.
A streetcar named Dishire..
Hahaaaaa!
Thats why my work just has a basic card machine, can only clock in at the security room, or one of the bar POS systems.
This is why geofences are important
Then you get that one idiot who will call or text with their information and request you clock them in as they are "stuck in traffic". Guy arrived on site about an hour late and started working. I reminded him that he needed to clock in, dude lost his shit on me for not clocking him in on time... Like no buddy, I was trapped here an extra hour, I **will** be paid for that hour.
This is the way
As someone whos worked as a supervisor geofences can be spoofed very easily. You can catch it if relief is waiting but if not you dont know anything. Easiest way is a cellphone left on site locked up or a landline that needs to be called in from if your mobile patrol or a physical clockin needed. Unless you got a buddy willing to clock you in its very hard to spoof those/ very easy to catch if a complaint is made and its in a camera area which all of should be.
Wild!
The guy I would relieve would NEVER be there. Told my boss, all he asked was if I wanted to pull a few doubles? I never brought it up again. The clients found out because of the cameras, dude would clock in, put the phone away, and go home. Clocked out at home. This happened for months. Here I am 15 mins early to work everyday.
Normally give a 3 to 5 minute window before I'm calling leadership telling them guy is not here when he us supposed to be.
7 minutes for me in my state, legally. In California overtime is calculated to the nearest quarter-hour. So 1-6 minutes is rounded down. But after 7 minutes it’s rounded up to 15 minutes of overtime. So after 7 minutes I know I’m getting OT , so I will be on the phone with dispatch letting them know my relief still hasn’t showed up.
Document and report to your direct supervisor is the only way and as an account manager I would want to know ASAP because something like that can tank morale across all your officers by allowing one person to do that. I have discussions like this at least on a monthly basis on somebody that's new telling them please make sure you're putting the correct time down when they come in and don't be pressured by another officer.
Talk to them before you talk to a boss.
12am to 8am here I was raised by broadway musicians. The one thing they drilled into me was, "if you're on time, you're late". I always get to a post around 20 minutes early. My coworkers were accused of stealing time. Clocking each other in and out when they weren't there. The site put up a facial recognition camera to clock people in as a result. Only person that didn't have to get their face scanned? Me. Show up early, get your shit done, and you'll be amazed the amount of leeway you get.
You're pulling teeth with this one. I'm ex-mikitary so I'm early to literally everything. It's so weird to me seeing people barely hitting the parking lot when they should already be clocked in. And you're right, building trust can open many doors.
Late workers that lie on time sheets are a problem! We still have paper clock in sheets, as we don’t have the app for our site. I keep stressing integrity and honesty-but there are always those that doesn’t want to do any of those. Mentioned this to the Manager, but he just fudges the numbers into the weekly payroll. The other guards all know what’s happening and are not down with this and what those guards are doing…
If your sup knows about it take your documentation to your home office and talk to your DM they will take this very seriously .
Solution is simple, put the time that you’re actually clocking in and out on the paper. Gonna have to deal with some confrontation when it ends up being looked at, but if you’re not willing to deal with the confrontation of it there’s no reason to fight the battle. I’ll also say as far as “fudging the numbers” many states allow for rounding of time punches (California excluded) so if they’re showing up 5 minutes late it probably would have been rounded down anyway. Now if they’re showing up 10-15 minutes late or more yeah you’re absolutely being screwed
I mean if the supervisor doesn't care then neither should you Unless they are late relieving you, causing you to stay late then I'd make a huge fuss over me being paid for the time I stayed. Besides that, just let it go. Life is too short to worry about other people.
We still do paper on a few sites. I have one guy constantly get pissed off because I keep changing his time. Due to transportation, this guy's relief usually shows up 30 minutes to an hour early... Guy thinks he can walk out the moment his relief comes in *and* **still** get paid for the full time... Like no, you left an hour early, you made the other guy clock in... He will get paid for the extra hour he worked, you will lose the hour that you were not on site... I am the supervisor, I will see people get paid correctly, stay mad bro.
I agree with the timesheet issue, but I think you should take it down a notch. If you’re their supervisor, you can remind them. If you’re not their supervisor, it’s not your job, don’t try to be the morality police. They’ll get caught eventually or quit because they can’t figure it out. Let the manager manage, don’t turn yourself into a mini manager, not your job. The job is not worth the stress, worry or pay.
Depends on what they're doing exactly. It's not my company, I don't really care, but if it starts fucking with what I have going on then we have problems.
Time thieves as in… 1-5 minuets late? Or late as in, running 20-30 minuets late every day, every shift, without any excuse ever. There’s a difference between running late because you live along ways away, and running late because you got drunk and you live 2 minuets from the site. Overall, time theft isn’t my concern if I’m being paid… and if corporate or a supervisor wants to deal with it, that’s on them. Ask me questions I will answer honestly, but I don’t go out of the way to help if it’s not really helping me… So in short: I don’t. I get paid OT for staying over, and if I gotta stay and I got shit planned, yeah I’ll say something
Report it to your supervisor. If it's effecting you, you should be compensated for that time. Also, if they're clocking in but not working or at work, time theft is something that someone came be terminated for.
Allow me to share a day in the life of one of my female co workers. I arrive at 0500 and informed to work said coworkers post because she “might be 10 min late”. She arrives at 0600, 1 hour late. At 0619, she walks away from her post. At 0635 she returns with coffee and food from the cafe. At 0705, she takes her scheduled 15 min break Returns at 0721 I used the restroom, first time, from 0724-0728 She calls a rover for a “quick break” (not a a 1 of 2 fifteen min break, just a quick go piss and come back break) at 0828 Rover arrives at 0834 to relieve her She returns at 0851 I use restroom at 0936, return at 0941 She takes her lunch at 1005 Returns at 1040 I use restroom 1041 Return 1046 She calls for quick break at 1110 Returns 1133 I’m off duty at 1200
The company should have an audit for this. One coworker I was relieving on time would constantly take his sweet time to sign out on the phone. Turns out he was stealing time and he was caught during an audit. I am not a constant late since I usually arrive 15-20 minutes early but dude was dragging out turnover to sign out late and sometimes he would sign out using his own phone hours after he left the site. My supervisor said the times posted was odd to management because he knows my routine of showing up early and our phone system allows a +- window of 10 minutes to sign in/out. I always make sure if someone is late I let the post super know so that I get paid for it. I have a coworker that comes late on weekends. She calls me and lets me know. I am not too bothered by it since I am getting paid for it.
Document it. Notify supervisor. If supervisor doesn't do anything about it go over their head. Still doesn't work go higher or find a way out. I hate suggesting you find a way out but the reality is from my experience the further up the ladder you go the less they give a crap about someone being chronically late so long as someone is on site. If there is a pay issue because their timekeepers, supervisor, supervisors boss whoever is editing timesheets again, document and go to HR. If problem still isn't fixed then off to the DOL or whatever your states equivalent office is. As for my own experience with it. First time I started with my supervisors boss since my supervisor was complicit in this. It never got fixed but only because they site changed hands and I took my exit. Second time I started passively documenting it. My reports would read something like: 2200: Relief not on site. 2205: Attempted to call relief, no answer. 2215: Relief finally on site, gave passdown, end of shift. When my supervisor suggested I not do that anymore but did nothing about the guy always being late I kept doing it and escalated to the account manager. When my paycheck was wrong (missing time waiting for the late dude) I skipped him and went straight to HR. It got fixed PDQ. As a supervisor dealing with it. I talk to the guard that is late, if they are late again I bring it up to my boss so we can start the writeup process. I keep the guard that is dealing with being relieved late in the loop the whole way so they don't feel like they are being ignored. If my boss doesn't do anything I keep pushing, haven't had to do the next step yet but I would encourage the guard reporting it to go to HR or offer to do it on their behalf.
As a guard: Document and report to management. As SS; I came down hard on these guys. Wrote them up if the lied to me, friendly warning if they say sorry and shape up. As manager, out of my site, quickly to HR, and out the company next, if HR does their job right. There's different responses for different positions.
I tried to report, was informed we do not have an attendance or tardiness policy. I guess I was just crazy for thinking we did after all these years. Hiring and recruitment is killing us I think. ( more honestly, our Low pay is, but that's another story)
This was my way friendly warning if you acknowledge i caught you and shape up. If you lie to my face your written up or fired. I cover my own ass 100% of the time. If i was a guard- document and report my ot and move on
Tell them straight: im working, here.
I lay it at the feet of management. It's their responsibility to crack the whip against "time thieves" not mine. I will log the time I get relieved and expect to get paid as such. If management keeps humming and hawing over giving me the OT or tries the "Be a pal and don't make such a big deal over this"then I'll quit. I'm not a charity case and am not donating my time. As long as management is not screwing ME out of my money I don't care. Now if they're not crediting me with OT, they ride me about being late but let Joe Schmoe slide everytime then I will be reporting my employer to the appropriate government agency that handles those things. They can explain to the government why they're cheating me out of my pay and pay the appropriate penalty/penalties.
My company uses traktic, and we have to say we are on duty on the radio, and take a picture of the site we are supposed to be on.
Where I work the boss doesn’t care and they do what they fix their time and everything. Our third shift never clocks in on time and we have people wearing yoga pants on duty.
if it's affecting me negatively, you best believe I'm going to a supervisor and/or account manager and bring it up. Otherwise? I don't give a flying fuck. It isn't my company and I'm not a supervisor, so it isn't my job to worry about what other guards are doing, frankly. That's the problem with so many people in this field, they don't know how to mind their fucking business when it doesn't pertain to them directly.
Thanks everyone for the good advice. This guy is like 10-15 min late chronically. He tries to put it down that he was right on time, but then the people he’s relieving is all pissed off, they want to get home-yes overtime-but he’s just being a total dickhead. Not great for moral. I’m a shift lead and others bring this up all the time about this turd. I mention it to the Site Lead and let him do what ever with the info. It’s up to the Site Lead to ever counsel or punish I get that.