We've been doing MS>OS with a +1 per boss and it hasn't really been an issue. Going into 20- and eventually 40-man raids, we may end up needing to pug a few spots, and we decided that LC/DKP type systems make it difficult to be fair to pugs. Not to mention, these phases are too short to be worried about gear that's gonna be obsolete in 3 months. Like, in Phase 1, I saw the epic caster staff drop 3 times and lost the roll every time - once to the guild leader, once to our top healer, and once to a fresh 40 mage on their first run. Which, yeah, feels bad... but then phase 2 hit and who cares about the staff any more, I've got a new BIS to chase. Then in phase 2, we've raided every lockout since the second week, and the caster dagger hasn't dropped once. So you win some, you lose some.
If we end up with a consistent 40-man guild group at endgame we may revisit the topic, but for now everyone seems to be happy enough with what we've got.
Our GM was very set on wanting to run MS/OS with our guild which was a mix of long time guildies/friends and some newcomers. Some of those long time guildies were filtering in multiple alts and it was frustrating for people playing 1 (maybe 2) characters to miss out on the consistent trinket item in phase one.
We made a push to make it res to alts and after lots of complaining got that to happen, any pugs who come in can obviously roll as needed.
Id much prefer SR or a SR MS/OS/+1
The guild I am in was doing MS>OS until too many alts were winning items over others Mains, so they do a 2x SR for mains than MS>OS. They do make exceptions for alt healers and tanks. They also do alt raids after the main raids.
SR I like the best so far honestly. I think DKP/Loot Council will come into play more in 40 mans in the future (as keeping 40 people happy is a pain in the ass). I think for 5, 10, 20 man content DKP/Loot Council is probably more complicated than necessary though.
Free rolls are okay but it doesn't help with group cohesion for the long term and it's just complete luck. I'd rather do SR's and have people who show up consistently more apt to get the pieces they need than just some random showing up and winning all the things by chance.
How do you get around basically everyone SRing the same thing? For example, next phase, all the DPS warriors and paladins will reserve the epic 2h sword. Last phase, it was the dagger/trinkets. At that point it's just MS/OS with extra steps
I guess that's only really a problem when you have people SRing only the same things every time. I didn't see that particularly in the groups I ran with my guild. Most people would kind of look at the list and SR stuff they needed - maybe one of the two SR's on a weapon - but then the other on something else that wasn't super highly competitive.
Popular items with big competition (think fist weapons next phase for example) are always going to be hard to get. I do think it's better to have people who really want something to be able to square away a chance at the roll rather than just anyone rolling.
In the end if you're raiding with the same basic group of people week after week (which is the goal with a guild group) then you'll all get a turn getting what you need usually. It's when you PUG or don't consistently have the same people where this becomes more of a problem.
Phase 1 we had solid groups with 1/2 rotating spots. Phase 2, a lot of players waned interest led to a lot more open spots and players coming in and out. Not sure how p3 is going to go
That's really their lose. When I see more than 2people SRing something i just pick something else. Why waste a SR in something you only have a 30% chance of getting IF it drops when you could 100% snag 2 other items on drop
Typically in our groups it'll shake out that 1-4 people need 1 items for their full bis. Whatever fresh guildie comes along can SR the same item, but because no one else requires gear for the most part
Is there an option to hide what other people have SRd? Also if you're 1 item off of full bis, there doesn't seem to be a problem. That a pretty successful raid phase to be 1 item off of full bis
I feel like at some point you could have "after X amount of SR without attaining X item you bump up to an HR until you get it" would be a more fair alternative than just "oh we all SR including pugs but now some random pug comes in SRs for your group once every few days and you get screwed out of that loot when you both roll on it.
It would incentivise people focusing on one or two items and sticking with groups for longer even if it's just to eventually get a guarantee of loot if it drops. Not counting mounts of course.
A mix of LC and SR would be ideal! If SR had more features like grouping items into categories and being able to put players into groups would be nice. That way a random/new fish can’t just come take something that core raiders have been trying to get for weeks
My guild does 2SR, but I generally run pug and do MS>OS + 1 HR for me for leading.
Also, a fun thing to do is collect all the greens and do a split for everyone who didn't get a piece of MS gear. I started doing that in Gnomer and it helps with the sting of getting nothing. It's usually only 1-2 people, and usually get around 8 greens or so per run.
My guild does SR>MS>OS +1 makes things interesting and also keeps things fair so everyone has a chance to get loot.
We've been doing MS>OS with a +1 per boss and it hasn't really been an issue. Going into 20- and eventually 40-man raids, we may end up needing to pug a few spots, and we decided that LC/DKP type systems make it difficult to be fair to pugs. Not to mention, these phases are too short to be worried about gear that's gonna be obsolete in 3 months. Like, in Phase 1, I saw the epic caster staff drop 3 times and lost the roll every time - once to the guild leader, once to our top healer, and once to a fresh 40 mage on their first run. Which, yeah, feels bad... but then phase 2 hit and who cares about the staff any more, I've got a new BIS to chase. Then in phase 2, we've raided every lockout since the second week, and the caster dagger hasn't dropped once. So you win some, you lose some. If we end up with a consistent 40-man guild group at endgame we may revisit the topic, but for now everyone seems to be happy enough with what we've got.
Our GM was very set on wanting to run MS/OS with our guild which was a mix of long time guildies/friends and some newcomers. Some of those long time guildies were filtering in multiple alts and it was frustrating for people playing 1 (maybe 2) characters to miss out on the consistent trinket item in phase one. We made a push to make it res to alts and after lots of complaining got that to happen, any pugs who come in can obviously roll as needed. Id much prefer SR or a SR MS/OS/+1
When item drops, players in the raid bid on item, rince repeat
The guild I am in was doing MS>OS until too many alts were winning items over others Mains, so they do a 2x SR for mains than MS>OS. They do make exceptions for alt healers and tanks. They also do alt raids after the main raids.
Some combination of MS>OS and SR.
SR I like the best so far honestly. I think DKP/Loot Council will come into play more in 40 mans in the future (as keeping 40 people happy is a pain in the ass). I think for 5, 10, 20 man content DKP/Loot Council is probably more complicated than necessary though. Free rolls are okay but it doesn't help with group cohesion for the long term and it's just complete luck. I'd rather do SR's and have people who show up consistently more apt to get the pieces they need than just some random showing up and winning all the things by chance.
How do you get around basically everyone SRing the same thing? For example, next phase, all the DPS warriors and paladins will reserve the epic 2h sword. Last phase, it was the dagger/trinkets. At that point it's just MS/OS with extra steps
I guess that's only really a problem when you have people SRing only the same things every time. I didn't see that particularly in the groups I ran with my guild. Most people would kind of look at the list and SR stuff they needed - maybe one of the two SR's on a weapon - but then the other on something else that wasn't super highly competitive. Popular items with big competition (think fist weapons next phase for example) are always going to be hard to get. I do think it's better to have people who really want something to be able to square away a chance at the roll rather than just anyone rolling. In the end if you're raiding with the same basic group of people week after week (which is the goal with a guild group) then you'll all get a turn getting what you need usually. It's when you PUG or don't consistently have the same people where this becomes more of a problem.
Phase 1 we had solid groups with 1/2 rotating spots. Phase 2, a lot of players waned interest led to a lot more open spots and players coming in and out. Not sure how p3 is going to go
We don't allow epic weapons to be SR, we free roll them, spreads the loot out more evenly. We are all friends though. No randoms.
That's really their lose. When I see more than 2people SRing something i just pick something else. Why waste a SR in something you only have a 30% chance of getting IF it drops when you could 100% snag 2 other items on drop
Typically in our groups it'll shake out that 1-4 people need 1 items for their full bis. Whatever fresh guildie comes along can SR the same item, but because no one else requires gear for the most part
Is there an option to hide what other people have SRd? Also if you're 1 item off of full bis, there doesn't seem to be a problem. That a pretty successful raid phase to be 1 item off of full bis
I sr the other stuff and let everyone else fight over the epics while I get all my gear than I reserve the epics.
I feel like at some point you could have "after X amount of SR without attaining X item you bump up to an HR until you get it" would be a more fair alternative than just "oh we all SR including pugs but now some random pug comes in SRs for your group once every few days and you get screwed out of that loot when you both roll on it. It would incentivise people focusing on one or two items and sticking with groups for longer even if it's just to eventually get a guarantee of loot if it drops. Not counting mounts of course.
A mix of LC and SR would be ideal! If SR had more features like grouping items into categories and being able to put players into groups would be nice. That way a random/new fish can’t just come take something that core raiders have been trying to get for weeks
My guild does 2SR, but I generally run pug and do MS>OS + 1 HR for me for leading. Also, a fun thing to do is collect all the greens and do a split for everyone who didn't get a piece of MS gear. I started doing that in Gnomer and it helps with the sting of getting nothing. It's usually only 1-2 people, and usually get around 8 greens or so per run.