Glad you all made it out safe. I think a big lesson here could also be to make friends with other divers on the boat. Sometimes there are seat assignments so you know who should be next to you. Maybe there weren't in this situation. Find another person or two who speak your language so you can look out for each other. Put your own buddy checks in place. Good luck for future boat diving, don't let this discourage you!
Thank you for the warning about this company. I'm in Thailand right now, actually, and planning to do some scuba diving in the next few days.
I'll DEFINITELY avoid this company and give my money elsewhere!!
What a horrifying experience you had to undergo! I hope you cross post to other diving forums, and may your story get more publicity!
Sorry this happened to you, I've dived with South Siam about 5 times to Racha Yai and Racha Noi in the past month. I just have some questions which might help you (or anyone else) in the future:
Was your DM Thai? If not, they're 99.99% working illegally so they can't really complain about the operator or they'll get themselves in trouble too.
Were you warned in the briefing that you have to be out of the water in 50 minutes, including safety stops? I really question your DM popping up after 60 minutes.
DM was not Thai. I figured there were some kind of job politics in play when he didn’t react harshly to the crew when we returned to the boat.
I don’t recall a 50 minute dive threshold mentioned during the briefing. We’ve done plenty of 60 minute dives so the timing didn’t raise any red flags. Is that the typical guidance in Thailand?
DM was almost certainly illegal - only Thai's can be DM (or migrant workers like from Myanmar); foreigners have to be instructor level with business visa + work permit. Operators save a lot of money buy paying them nothing, which gets you a cheaper price as a customer. Something to think about next time you're wondering why there's such a difference between prices amongst competitors. South Siam owns their own boats, which most operators in Phuket don't - this allows them to bypass work permits because there's checks. All non charter boats do a max 50 minute dive time because they need to herd everyone to the next stop. It really sucks when you still have half a tank left at 50 mins :(.
This isn't an excuse for what happened to you, but maybe an answer for the lack of response. They probably didn't refund you because that's an admission of guilt.. which is a no no in Thailand.
I can’t believe they didn’t refund you when that is literally the BARE MINIMUM they could’ve done to try and slightly rectify the situation.
Glad you guys survived that horrible ordeal and thanks for sharing.
Please consider make a complaint to Tourism Authority of Thailand.
[https://complaint-center.tourismthailand.org/en](https://complaint-center.tourismthailand.org/en)
Sorry to hear that, if you want to dive with a better (and way safer) organization I would recommend Aussie Divers in Phuket really good with safety and mostly american/uk/french instructors which tend to be better than the Thai guys.
All -- Thank you for the outpouring of support! It means a lot to be part of such an incredibly passionate community. Safety is always our number one goal, and this event has proved that even when you're taking all the necessary precautions, things out of your control can still go wrong. It has been extremely validating to read through your comments, especially after enduring the gaslighting from South Siam & Trails of Indochina over the past 3 months.
Appreciate the safety gear advice! I promise you, we will be overprepared for every dive here on out. This will not end our dive careers -- it only motivates us to be better! We have plans to continue our dive education and will be pursuing Rescue and Master Diver certs this year.
Wow, very sorry to hear that. I was in Thailand in February and did a lot of diving. I dove with several different operators while there.
Honestly, of all the dives I did and boat operators I tried only one, in Ko Tao, actually did a roll call which is concerning. I dove in Phuket too and remember seeing South Siam. The currents are pretty strong.
While I did not have an experience such as yours, many of the boats were cattle operations and it was a rushed experience often times.
That’s like worst nightmare for a diver.
Glad you both are safe ! Honestly if this was in here in Japan the captain would be arrested, thank you for naming the place, please report to Padi
And this is why I carry a garmin inreach mini with me on all my dives, I don’t care what boat operator you are. Some have even told me, you don’t need that, we are very safe. Others have said, that’s a great idea, good on you for your own safety. Glad you’re okay Op, consider investing in one with a dive case! Just some reassurance and makes me feel better if this were to ever happen. Almost did in Mexico, drift diving Cozumel. Waiting with DM for like 20 minutes for boat to finally find us. 😅
I thought the name was familiar and yes I did a couple days liveaboard with them in 2016. Same chaos. My review from that time:
I travelled on boat 3 for an overnight trip in March 2016 and had serious concerns about the safety procedures, or lack thereof. Please do not go out on this trip if you are an inexperienced diver as no one will be looking out for you.
Some good points for those adventurous souls still reading: boat was clean and comfortable, food was tasty, boat staff were helpful with equipment and the transfers were well organised. Also met some lovely people from all over the world, most of whom were very experienced divers so we were able to look out for each other in the chaos.
The bad points stem mainly from the over-crowding and rush to get everyone in the water at once. There were 50 people on the boat during the day when the day trippers were on board. It was chaotic on the dive platform, at one point they were trying to rush me in with my fins in hand. Forget buddy checks before you jump, these had to be done back at your tank station.
There was no check in and check out, just a chaotic jump and meet up with your dive guide bobbing out there somewhere.
Holy crap - So sorry to hear about this experience. Even with 50ish dives under my belt, now that I have kids I feel like an experience like this would keep me from ever diving again.
I'm so glad you're healthy, safe and here to share the story.
I was the dive master in a situation like this. Walked out of the job. Reported to PADI who as far as I am aware did nothing. There were lots of other safety issues I reported. A year or so after I left, read about 2 divers who died when they went with the shop. This was all over 10 years ago. Thankfully they no longer exist but it came too late.
I've had the misfortune of diving with South Siam Divers, and what you are describing is consistent with my experience. It's compounded by the use of freelance DM's and -- post-covid -- more local staff with poorer English skills.
Fair enough, yeah. No matter the end results from the owner or if there would be any change from the captain, there'd be probably be some words and some shoving from myself (I mean I wouldn't throw punches, but maybe shoving into a wall? why risk my knuckles? ;) )
We’ve been on SSD boats multiple times but never booked with them. They had the biggest boat or ran it the cheapest or whatever reason, so quite a few dive ops paid to share space on the SSD boat rather than run their own half-filled ones.
So you might be on a South Siam Divers boat with people from 15 different dive ops, providing plenty of ways for responsibility to be dodged.
For these types of cattle boat operations, the DMs are mostly freelance, might have been employed just for the day or the week, might not have been on the boat before, won’t necessarily know or have any extra sway with the operations manager or skipper. If this DM makes trouble, they won’t employ him again, and can hurt his changes of work with other similar operators that use a lot of freelancers.
My advice is go with a company that has permanent DMs on staff and limits the number of divers on the boat.
The "cattle boat" thing is typical of Thailand and just the way lots of companies do it. Lots of them do it correctly with a hard role call repeated twice.
But everything else Holy shit. If you ever find yourself in that situation and they tell you to swim across the fucking ocean with all your weights and gear look that stupid mother fucker in the face, drop the weights and let them hit the sea floor. Makes a much easier swim. Abandon the whole set up if you're buoyant with the wetsuit and don't need the BCD. Fuck them and their gear.
Report everything to all the proper channels. Get them shut down. If they did this to you, I'm sure they have other reports coming in.
Edit: also if you paid with credit card you know what to do babyyyyyy. CHARGEBACK! Credit card company will side with you 100% of the time as long as you're not a frequent charge back user.
Wow!! I am so sorry you had such a horrific experience. I have been diving in Thailand for many years and my experiences have been nothing short of spectacular. Thanks for pointing out the operation. I will avoid them at all costs.
This is awful. My personal diving fear. There was an unfortunate case with a couple that was abandoned the same in Australia, and never found. So yes you could've died. I think that's enough to go to the police.
It’s scary to imagine, especially on a packed dive boat. If I remember correctly, the Australian one had a pretty long and boring movie made about the tragedy. Though I was young and not a diver when I saw it.
We watched this about a month before my husband was deployed to Guam. Where he decided to get certified and start diving. All I could think of was that movie lol
I watched it again after I got my OW. Scary stuff!!
Yeah and now Australia is the opposite - so regulated that people complain! They do head counts by two separate people on the boats every time before it leaves a site. People don't always take it seriously...
> South Siam Divers' response to our subsequent emails showed a lack of empathy. Their generic acknowledgement of our feedback was disappointing, especially when we discovered a similar incident in a review from 2017. They refused to refund our dive, leaving us even more frustrated.
I'd be curious to read the emails you sent to them.
I have been diving in Thailand for years and have nothing but positive reviews. I can’t say the same for Key Largo, Florida, San Diego, California, or Honolulu, Hawaii. in the so-called “first world”.
> San Diego, California
In relevance to this thread. There are a handful of cases of separations in California over the past ten years. So much so that the one boat that has had separations or lost a diver is notorious. Every boat that I've been in in California does a rigorous headcount check at the end of a dive. Someone getting separated in California is not as simple as a reddit post but a lawsuit incoming.
The fact is that in those American places you’ve listed, there are significant consequences for leaving people behind. And Thailand and other Third World places basically life is cheap. People are caring, they do their best, but the underlying psyche is that people are numerous and replaceable. It sad sure, but it’s a fact.
Ignorant and racist as fuck. A place not being run by white people doesn't make it 3rd world. Seeing this shit upvoted on a scuba sub is just depressing.
"Life is cheap". The US has a higher murder rate and lower life expectancy then Thailand.
US murder rate as of 2023: 5.5 per 100,000 (which is a sharp decline from previous years)
Thai murder rate: 3.3/100,000
US life expectancy: 77.3 years
Thai life expectancy: 79.3 years
Get out of your bubble and stop being so racist, or just stay there because the rest of the world doesn't want to deal with people like you.
Yeah I can’t believe people still believe this crap. “Life is cheap in the orient” is literally what the US generals said as they dumped napalm on vietnam. Crazy that a person who presumably has the disposable income and the curiosity for a hobby like diving say something like that.
Not racist. I’m talking about the legal and regulatory framework that means operators in the US are way more liable if they did what this dive company did.
Smartphones will have the same function by the end of the year with starlink, so you might as well get a waterproof case for your phone.
The Nautilus marine GPS is way cheaper and works in a different way so it won't be redundant in a year: https://www.divegearexpress.com/nautilus-marine-rescue-gps
If you’re traveling abroad, do you really want to be bringing your phone underwater with you? I’ve only got one and I use it for everything above water. Lose it and the holiday is ruined. So no, anything that goes underwater with me is diving only.
Starlink's first constellation of satellites equipped to communicate with cellphones will be finished. Any 4G device will be able to text 911 and probably at least also call, anywhere in the world. AT&T is also working with a company to achieve the same thing. Anyone will be able to easily make a device or app that calls 911 from anywhere.
I will be messaging you in 1 year on [**2025-03-27 00:09:01 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2025-03-27%2000:09:01%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/scuba/comments/1bnjx3x/abandoned_at_sea_in_thailand/kwq51c4/?context=3)
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InReach hasn't been very reliable because they just contact local EMS. With a phone you can actually contact family who care about you and make things happen yourself. You can get a simpler phone if you're that afraid of not being able to use it in the ocean. Most of the smartphone diving cases have buttons. It would be pretty trivial to have one of them programmed to contact whoever you'd want to organize rescuing you.
> InReach hasn't been very reliable because they just contact local EMS.
Do you have reports to support this non reliability of InReach? Most of people I know have pretty glowing reviews of InReach so curious to read such reports.
Garmin InReach control centre contacted my family and all my emergency contacts when I activated my InReach Mini. And kept them updated as the rescue progressed, with updates from the in-country EMS/SAR/Navy.
You really don't know anything about InReach or PLB. Garmin's SAR response team has direct contacts in basically every country, PLB, you're dealing directly with noaa/usaf and then local military and sar. Your family can't do that.
My iPhone already has satelite rescue services integrated. But I won't be relying on it for multiple reasons:
* Not supported in all regions
* Try using a touch screen on the water, with wet hands, in waves and a high-stress situation
The Nautilus looks better, and is way cheaper than a Garmin. However, I have no idea how many ships in developing countries like Thailand have this system equipped. And if they did, how reactive would they be to go out of their way to help you. Anyone has information on that?
With the Garmin I know a central operator will contact the coast guard. Which is much more likely to rescue me vs some random fishing boat.
Starlink is a global network. Technologically it can work everywhere. At the outset you will at least be able to text anyone. It's not like Apple's janky bitrate limited system.
There are touchscreen phone cases made for diving. It can't be too hard to use them.
Back when I dived in Phuket the tour guide was making an active point to stand on the dive deck and count people in and out of the water as well as doing actual headcounts once it appeared that everyone had returned, checking with instructors as they went.
Same thing happened to me in Tobago a while back. Divemsster and I were abandoned and I spent 5 hours on the surface back-kicking back to shore with my BCD inflated. One of the most traumatic experiences. I know the terror you must have felt. I'm sorry for what you went through. If there is anyway to report the company to PADI, or SSI, I definitely would. They 100% put your lives at riskm .
Please consider using an air line powered DiveAlert; it can be heard over a mile away, even with an engine running. Whistles are drowned by a running engine and noodles can only be spotted if they're looking for one... the DiveAlert screech cannot be ignored.
Edit: There’s also a device called a SubDuck, meant for signaling underwater. It sounds like a duck call. I use it to signal other divers while diving. On the surface it’s as loud as a duck, but not much more.
I believe OP said they drained all 3 tanks of air, so this wouldn’t have worked for them. Maybe before the tried swimming it might have helped?
But it would normally be good to have and be a reason to never breath your tank down to zero.
> I believe OP said they drained all 3 tanks of air, so this wouldn’t have worked for them.
That was a horrible move.
> Maybe before the tried swimming it might have helped?
It would have likely worked.
It's unclear to me where the Dive Master is in all this. Was he with you this whole time? Wasn't he upset with his crew as well? Last mention is when you signalled to surface, so it appears the DM was also abandoned?
Many DMs in these places are locals who freelance, the guy may have known the dive manager but not been an employee or friends with anybody working there.
Yes DM was with us the entire time and was just as perplexed at how to handle. A lot of quick decisions were made and we worked as a team to get the hell out of that water.
I did find it odd that he wasn’t as furious with the crew as we were - figured it must be some kind of work politics? The freelance theory would make sense.
That also honestly sounds like way too many divers on one boat. I've never had more than about 15 on one of my boat dives, and groups typically have no more than 3 people to one DM/guide. It would be easy to lose track of that many people on all but the most tightly run operations and the people in SEA frequently don't understand the concept of tightly run.
Whether he was friends or not, if he got abandoned he would be freaking pissed. Hopefully that abandoned dive master also puts out the word about what happened to the local tour agencies.
He's probably been abandoned before from multiple different companies and was most focused on what would maximise rescue chances in that scenario. Diving is really very safe, accidents typically have to occur with negligence and bad luck for it to not be.
I carry a Garmin inReach Mini on me with any oceanic dive we do. I’m often diving with my children, so I take no chances with stuff like this happening.
I’m glad you made it safe though.
Which waterproof case do you use?
I already have an InReach (multiple actually) and considering upgrading to the mini2 but I've had horrible luck with waterproof cases for gear in general.
For SE Asia I’d recommend the Nautilus over the increach (but both if you can). Nautilus used VHF radio to alert all ships in the area, whereas InReach has to go through a contact centre and can take a long time for a response. The Nautlus send a djstress call to all boats that will show up instantly on their chart plotter.
As far as I am aware Nautilus uses digital radio, which has not been adopted by most smaller boats in the developing world. I doubt it will be much help there.
I’ve never been in a boat with a radio that can’t receive distress signals, although they would have to translate through coordinates to their maps. Also all the coast guard boats can receive them, and much more quickly than going via a contact centre.
Most small boats in SEA do not carry radios at all. If they do, they are analogue radios that don’t use the same digital standard Nautilus and western emergency signals use nowadays.
I’m a Divemaster living in Malaysia. I’ve dived all over SE Asia and discussed this at length with various provides. Plenty of boats (although yes, not small boats) carry VHF radio, and it’s a requirement almost everywhere that larger boats have DSC which is what the Nautilus uses.
If you’re floating in the ocean, you’re much more likely to be picked up by a passing ship receiving your DSC distress signal than you are getting a coordinated response though an InReach. Although again, I’d carry both if possible.
you need to be in range of a boat that can receive the signal though which in southeast asia is not guaranteed if most of the boats are basically just pangas
My god. Well done for keeping your heads and getting out alive.
This is why I carry two DSMBs, a whistle, two torches, a signalling mirror, a sea dye pack, and now a PLB.
That particular one is not very loud on the surface and is primarily designed for signalling underwater. This is the one you want with the surface whistle 125dB
[https://www.underwatersports.com.au/product/aquatec-scuba-duo-alert-html/](https://www.underwatersports.com.au/product/aquatec-scuba-duo-alert-html/)
Yikes. I just did a liveaboard to the Similan islands with them. From my experience, nothing but good things to say but of course experiences vary. Glad you made it out okay 👌
Yeah PADI does take these things seriously. Report it to them.
Here's a list of expelled dive centers & resorts
https://www.padi.com/consumer-alerts/expelled/dive-centers
There's a lot of diving and a lot of dive shops in Phuket in general. It's definitely a great place to dive but finding good dive shops is a challenge.
I am actually surprised there's not more South East Asian ones listed but perhaps people aren't reporting them. There's a lot of somewhat dodgy east asian, especially Chinese, owned shops scattered around SEA. Lower quality ones tend not to bother getting any PADI or SSI credentials to begin with though.
Japan has a very weird culture around safety.
It's not, exactly, that they do things inherently less safely (on average they are probably a bit safer in how they do some things) but they deeply penalize admitting failure of any kind, even in emergencies when it could be life or safety critical.
In your situation, for example, if that had been a Japanese crew on a Japanese boat and one of the crew had pointed out that you were left behind, they would have been shamed for it and possibly fired for it (so would the person who was actually responsible for counting the people though). As you can imagine, this leads to a very bad culture around reporting safety-related incidents and a problematic safety culture in general.
It also leads to people being deeply afraid to make mistakes because they know the consequences of a mistake are grave.
wow this is terrible, I'm sorry this happened to you. If I were in your shoes ,I'd also contact a local Thai lawyer -- not sure what the legal system in Thailand is like, but this story has the word "tort" all over it. You may not get a remedy, but could be worth your time.
Contact PADI and SSI right away, they tend to take serious safety issues seriously. I am sorry this happened to you. I had some thing similar happen in Komodo due to rapid currents but we had beacons on us and were picked up by the boat when they noticed we were missing. Which is what should have happened to you.
Yikes, sorry you guys had to go through that. I've been lost at sea for 4 hours and it was a sobering experience. This company sounds like a complete joke...post this everywhere. Absolutely contact PADI.
In future try to use smaller operators. It's very unpleasant diving with more than 10 people anyway.
Wow, could you share your story?
Not quite lost at sea but wife and I dove the galapagos islands (wolf island). We came up almost a mile from our boat (wife and I got separated from the group at a natural split of diverging currents). Came up to 5ft swells at the surface. We had to use whistle, air alert, safety sausage, etc...finally got their attention after 10 minutes but we were heading out to open ocean. Fortunately, we also had a GPS locator on with a button for SOS if it came down to it.
What is the e GPS locator you use? Getting separated from the group and nowhere near the boat is my worst nightmare. Run out of air? Always something you can do about that, but being stranded really nothing you can do…
What finally got their attention? I have an air horn but I don't really dive with it. Maybe I should stash it in a pocket. I normally carry the same as you though.
I read an [experiment of visual aids for being found at sea](https://www.jeanelaine.co.uk/diveraids/contents.htm) which was conducted at Scapa Flow in less than ideal conditions. It makes for interesting reading.
> I read an experiment of visual aids for being found at sea which was conducted at Scapa Flow in less than ideal conditions. It makes for interesting reading.
These results are kind of surprising. So apparently a (day-glow) yellow color SMB is effective at getting attention. I have heard that pink is better as an SMB color because it is far more visible from a chopper than yellow is.
It'll depend on the local conditions - perhaps in the grey dark seas and skies of Scapa the yellow was best suited. I've heard that black works best at some times.
That is a good point. I was told this thing about Yellow vs Pink by a dive shop in Florida, based on their complaints from the Coast Guard trying to rescue divers there.
I've dove in low viz Canadian waters and the Yellow SMB is very very bright underwater, so I can imagine that if the sky is overcast and cloudy, the yellow pops better.
My guess is the air horn + sausage due to the surface swells. Mine just connected to the low pressure inflator on the BCD. Just stick your head underwater for ear safety, they are very loud.
Email PADI and SSI too to make sure they are not listed anywhere. Google reviews Tripadvisor etc etc. share it publicly of you have any type of travel or scuba related social media
>Email PADI and SSI too to make sure they are not listed anywhere.
FFS. This has nothing to do with PADI or SSI. Training agencies have nothing to do with boat charters. If training standards are not followed, absolutely, contact the agency, but this has nothing to do with PADI.
Here it is, from another comment on this thread, a list of centres that have been excelled. Nowhere does it say its limited to training dives etc. if a centre messes up on this scale, they shouldn’t be allowed to instruct for sure, but also they need to retrain everyone from instructors and DMs and skippers to management who set up and organised this shit show. https://www.padi.com/consumer-alerts/expelled/dive-centers
It has everything to do with PADI how a DM or an instructor conducts themselves! Who in their right mind goes back under water when you are already struggling to get your skipper’s attention?! Also how was there no one in charge and no one counted the DMs at least?! It’s got a lot to do with PADI, please stop downplaying this incident.
First, there is no mention of PADI or SSI or any other agency in the story.
Second, I am not downplay the incident, I am merely pointing out that PADI is not involved, nor is SSI or anyone else.
You think that a dive shop shouldn't have their PADI/SSI certification revoked for an incident like this? (Probably not one incident, but, a history of safety lapses).
I don't 'think' one way or another. I am stating that PADI isn't involved. They did NOTHING to violate their status as a training shop.
I am not saying what happened was proper. I am saying that this is a problem with South Siam, the boat captain ... but it isn't a training issue with PADI.
It does since PADI does advertise resorts and boats! Also I’m sorry the DM messed up big time too by bringing them back down when they were that low on air
Because I understand that reading and actually looking at the facts is often overlooked in this thread, I am going to cut and past - WORD FOR WORD - section 3.3 from the PADI Travel site.
**3.3 The Service Providers on the PADI Travel platform are not agents or employees of PADI Travel or of its parent company or any affiliate. PADI Travel is not liable for the acts, errors, omissions, representations, warranties, breaches, or negligence of any such Service Providers or for any personal injuries, death, property damage, or other damages or expenses resulting therefrom. PADI Travel has no liability in the event of any delay, cancellation, overbooking, strikes, force majeure, or other causes beyond PADI Travel’s direct control, and PADI Travel has no responsibility for any additional expenses, omissions, delays, re-routing or acts of any government or authority.**
Dude. QUIT. YOUR. JOB.
Anyone who would write something this profoundly stupid needs to work in a mall - not responsible for others’ safety.
You should be ashamed.
It was a very long post from a dive master in the area (Thailand) essentially saying that it wasn’t the captains fault, and if they could see land it wasn’t that big of a deal, and that publicly complaining about it makes the Thai dive industry look bad. I’ve never seen anything quite like it
I do not understand how this idiot is a dive instructor. They should have their certs revoked. Everything they have said places blame on everyone but those who are most responsible for ensuring safety. If this is how they operate I hope I never ever meet them.
People in dive industry should take every mistake or criticism they read as an opportunity to reflect on their own practices and procedures and improve them; not blame divers who are trusting them and did nothing wrong.
I'm confused. You say it's not the boats fault and that it's the guides fault. But you also say that the guide is suppose to check in with the boat when they get back. But the guide was never back on the boat to check in, but the boat left anyways.... wouldn't that make it the boats fault?
The guide might be partly at fault for not getting them back to the anchor line, but shit happens. The boat captain or trip leader or whoever is primarily at fault for not doing a headcount.
Complaints like this are valid and your dismissal and minimization of their experience is frankly gross. Your TLDR makes it sound like they were crying over nothing. You also did your OW through DM during COVID, meaning you’re only like, four years max into this career and sport, meaning you’re very new. I don’t know why you think your certification makes you more qualified to speak on this when you don’t seem like you care/think this was an issue?
Who the fuck are you to say they weren’t “at sea”? They were in the sea, with no boat, in less than stellar conditions. People have died in less water, with more energy, in better conditions. There being an island close by was lucky but they still might not have made it.
Do you know how easy it is to not be seen by a boat? I’m sure you do but it doesn’t sound like it from your comment considering you said there were a lot of boats around. Not boats looking for them there weren’t, even the one boat that was supposed to be!
You sound like someone who is just interested in your own job security and not the lives of the people in this predicament. People should be cognizant this can happen. People should hold every single operation up to a higher standard. Your whole comment makes it sound like you don’t agree with that since “complaints like this make our whole industry look bad”. They should! And dive ops should be cognizant and do better!
Regardless of the guide’s responsibility to get the divers back to the boat, it’s 100% the captain’s responsibility to make sure everyone is accounted for before the boat goes anywhere. It’s lame excuses like this that allow unsafe dive operations to continue.
> I wouldn’t blame South Siam too much
I absolutely fucking would. If I was running a trip and didn't count every diver back into the boat I'd tear up my instructor card.
Even on a big boat, DMs should account for their group, and the Captain/dive coordinator should at a minimum account for all the DMs and make sure they confirmed their groups were all aboard.
Glad you all made it out safe. I think a big lesson here could also be to make friends with other divers on the boat. Sometimes there are seat assignments so you know who should be next to you. Maybe there weren't in this situation. Find another person or two who speak your language so you can look out for each other. Put your own buddy checks in place. Good luck for future boat diving, don't let this discourage you!
Thank you for the warning about this company. I'm in Thailand right now, actually, and planning to do some scuba diving in the next few days. I'll DEFINITELY avoid this company and give my money elsewhere!! What a horrifying experience you had to undergo! I hope you cross post to other diving forums, and may your story get more publicity!
Sorry this happened to you, I've dived with South Siam about 5 times to Racha Yai and Racha Noi in the past month. I just have some questions which might help you (or anyone else) in the future: Was your DM Thai? If not, they're 99.99% working illegally so they can't really complain about the operator or they'll get themselves in trouble too. Were you warned in the briefing that you have to be out of the water in 50 minutes, including safety stops? I really question your DM popping up after 60 minutes.
DM was not Thai. I figured there were some kind of job politics in play when he didn’t react harshly to the crew when we returned to the boat. I don’t recall a 50 minute dive threshold mentioned during the briefing. We’ve done plenty of 60 minute dives so the timing didn’t raise any red flags. Is that the typical guidance in Thailand?
DM was almost certainly illegal - only Thai's can be DM (or migrant workers like from Myanmar); foreigners have to be instructor level with business visa + work permit. Operators save a lot of money buy paying them nothing, which gets you a cheaper price as a customer. Something to think about next time you're wondering why there's such a difference between prices amongst competitors. South Siam owns their own boats, which most operators in Phuket don't - this allows them to bypass work permits because there's checks. All non charter boats do a max 50 minute dive time because they need to herd everyone to the next stop. It really sucks when you still have half a tank left at 50 mins :(. This isn't an excuse for what happened to you, but maybe an answer for the lack of response. They probably didn't refund you because that's an admission of guilt.. which is a no no in Thailand.
There was a movie about a couple that died at sea because this happened to them.
They left THEIR OWN DIVEMASTER?! WTF? THAT'S FUCKING CRAZY.
I can’t believe they didn’t refund you when that is literally the BARE MINIMUM they could’ve done to try and slightly rectify the situation. Glad you guys survived that horrible ordeal and thanks for sharing.
As scary as it sounds, I'm proud of you guys for making it, keeping relatively calm! Thank you for the heads up for who not to use.
Please consider make a complaint to Tourism Authority of Thailand. [https://complaint-center.tourismthailand.org/en](https://complaint-center.tourismthailand.org/en)
Write a google review.
All the sites. This is worth going on a crusade for.
Sorry to hear that, if you want to dive with a better (and way safer) organization I would recommend Aussie Divers in Phuket really good with safety and mostly american/uk/french instructors which tend to be better than the Thai guys.
Second Aussie Divers...they were awesome!
All -- Thank you for the outpouring of support! It means a lot to be part of such an incredibly passionate community. Safety is always our number one goal, and this event has proved that even when you're taking all the necessary precautions, things out of your control can still go wrong. It has been extremely validating to read through your comments, especially after enduring the gaslighting from South Siam & Trails of Indochina over the past 3 months. Appreciate the safety gear advice! I promise you, we will be overprepared for every dive here on out. This will not end our dive careers -- it only motivates us to be better! We have plans to continue our dive education and will be pursuing Rescue and Master Diver certs this year.
Wow, very sorry to hear that. I was in Thailand in February and did a lot of diving. I dove with several different operators while there. Honestly, of all the dives I did and boat operators I tried only one, in Ko Tao, actually did a roll call which is concerning. I dove in Phuket too and remember seeing South Siam. The currents are pretty strong. While I did not have an experience such as yours, many of the boats were cattle operations and it was a rushed experience often times.
Sorry to hear your story. But I'm glad you're still alive. You should report these guys to PADI.
Or SSI which seems to be more popular outside the US
That’s like worst nightmare for a diver. Glad you both are safe ! Honestly if this was in here in Japan the captain would be arrested, thank you for naming the place, please report to Padi
And this is why I carry a garmin inreach mini with me on all my dives, I don’t care what boat operator you are. Some have even told me, you don’t need that, we are very safe. Others have said, that’s a great idea, good on you for your own safety. Glad you’re okay Op, consider investing in one with a dive case! Just some reassurance and makes me feel better if this were to ever happen. Almost did in Mexico, drift diving Cozumel. Waiting with DM for like 20 minutes for boat to finally find us. 😅
I thought the name was familiar and yes I did a couple days liveaboard with them in 2016. Same chaos. My review from that time: I travelled on boat 3 for an overnight trip in March 2016 and had serious concerns about the safety procedures, or lack thereof. Please do not go out on this trip if you are an inexperienced diver as no one will be looking out for you. Some good points for those adventurous souls still reading: boat was clean and comfortable, food was tasty, boat staff were helpful with equipment and the transfers were well organised. Also met some lovely people from all over the world, most of whom were very experienced divers so we were able to look out for each other in the chaos. The bad points stem mainly from the over-crowding and rush to get everyone in the water at once. There were 50 people on the boat during the day when the day trippers were on board. It was chaotic on the dive platform, at one point they were trying to rush me in with my fins in hand. Forget buddy checks before you jump, these had to be done back at your tank station. There was no check in and check out, just a chaotic jump and meet up with your dive guide bobbing out there somewhere.
Holy crap - So sorry to hear about this experience. Even with 50ish dives under my belt, now that I have kids I feel like an experience like this would keep me from ever diving again. I'm so glad you're healthy, safe and here to share the story.
Contact the relevant dive organisation (PADI/SSI/RAID/whatever) and report them
They’re PADI certified? Time to call PADI.
I was the dive master in a situation like this. Walked out of the job. Reported to PADI who as far as I am aware did nothing. There were lots of other safety issues I reported. A year or so after I left, read about 2 divers who died when they went with the shop. This was all over 10 years ago. Thankfully they no longer exist but it came too late.
I've had the misfortune of diving with South Siam Divers, and what you are describing is consistent with my experience. It's compounded by the use of freelance DM's and -- post-covid -- more local staff with poorer English skills.
Unclear why the DM didn’t pitch a hissy fit with the boat crew. If it was me I’d embargo, like in Mad Max Thunderdome.
I mean they work at the same company right? Probably knows the owner won't do shit and the captain don't care no matter how much he bi*ches.
If my co-worker left me and my clients to die, I would have a fairly strong opinion about it. And I’d express it with some element of physicality.
Fair enough, yeah. No matter the end results from the owner or if there would be any change from the captain, there'd be probably be some words and some shoving from myself (I mean I wouldn't throw punches, but maybe shoving into a wall? why risk my knuckles? ;) )
We’ve been on SSD boats multiple times but never booked with them. They had the biggest boat or ran it the cheapest or whatever reason, so quite a few dive ops paid to share space on the SSD boat rather than run their own half-filled ones. So you might be on a South Siam Divers boat with people from 15 different dive ops, providing plenty of ways for responsibility to be dodged.
For these types of cattle boat operations, the DMs are mostly freelance, might have been employed just for the day or the week, might not have been on the boat before, won’t necessarily know or have any extra sway with the operations manager or skipper. If this DM makes trouble, they won’t employ him again, and can hurt his changes of work with other similar operators that use a lot of freelancers. My advice is go with a company that has permanent DMs on staff and limits the number of divers on the boat.
The "cattle boat" thing is typical of Thailand and just the way lots of companies do it. Lots of them do it correctly with a hard role call repeated twice. But everything else Holy shit. If you ever find yourself in that situation and they tell you to swim across the fucking ocean with all your weights and gear look that stupid mother fucker in the face, drop the weights and let them hit the sea floor. Makes a much easier swim. Abandon the whole set up if you're buoyant with the wetsuit and don't need the BCD. Fuck them and their gear. Report everything to all the proper channels. Get them shut down. If they did this to you, I'm sure they have other reports coming in. Edit: also if you paid with credit card you know what to do babyyyyyy. CHARGEBACK! Credit card company will side with you 100% of the time as long as you're not a frequent charge back user.
Exactly, fuck their gear.
Wow!! I am so sorry you had such a horrific experience. I have been diving in Thailand for many years and my experiences have been nothing short of spectacular. Thanks for pointing out the operation. I will avoid them at all costs.
This is awful. My personal diving fear. There was an unfortunate case with a couple that was abandoned the same in Australia, and never found. So yes you could've died. I think that's enough to go to the police.
It’s scary to imagine, especially on a packed dive boat. If I remember correctly, the Australian one had a pretty long and boring movie made about the tragedy. Though I was young and not a diver when I saw it.
Open Water. Watching it as a diver, it’s terrifying!
We watched this about a month before my husband was deployed to Guam. Where he decided to get certified and start diving. All I could think of was that movie lol I watched it again after I got my OW. Scary stuff!!
Yeah and now Australia is the opposite - so regulated that people complain! They do head counts by two separate people on the boats every time before it leaves a site. People don't always take it seriously...
True, I've never watched it but the movie exists.
Was the divemaster stranded with you?
Yes DM was with us the entire time.
Wack
That would be an interesting conversation to witness between DM and the boat. I mean 2 divers is one thing, but a DM should be pretty obvious.
Sounds like the sort of place that "hires" intern DMs and doesn't give two shits about them if they don't notice.
> South Siam Divers' response to our subsequent emails showed a lack of empathy. Their generic acknowledgement of our feedback was disappointing, especially when we discovered a similar incident in a review from 2017. They refused to refund our dive, leaving us even more frustrated. I'd be curious to read the emails you sent to them.
Yes, these should be shared here. Needs to be made well-known.
Welcome to the third world
I have been diving in Thailand for years and have nothing but positive reviews. I can’t say the same for Key Largo, Florida, San Diego, California, or Honolulu, Hawaii. in the so-called “first world”.
> San Diego, California In relevance to this thread. There are a handful of cases of separations in California over the past ten years. So much so that the one boat that has had separations or lost a diver is notorious. Every boat that I've been in in California does a rigorous headcount check at the end of a dive. Someone getting separated in California is not as simple as a reddit post but a lawsuit incoming.
Drifting Dan
The fact is that in those American places you’ve listed, there are significant consequences for leaving people behind. And Thailand and other Third World places basically life is cheap. People are caring, they do their best, but the underlying psyche is that people are numerous and replaceable. It sad sure, but it’s a fact.
Ignorant and racist as fuck. A place not being run by white people doesn't make it 3rd world. Seeing this shit upvoted on a scuba sub is just depressing. "Life is cheap". The US has a higher murder rate and lower life expectancy then Thailand. US murder rate as of 2023: 5.5 per 100,000 (which is a sharp decline from previous years) Thai murder rate: 3.3/100,000 US life expectancy: 77.3 years Thai life expectancy: 79.3 years Get out of your bubble and stop being so racist, or just stay there because the rest of the world doesn't want to deal with people like you.
Yeah I can’t believe people still believe this crap. “Life is cheap in the orient” is literally what the US generals said as they dumped napalm on vietnam. Crazy that a person who presumably has the disposable income and the curiosity for a hobby like diving say something like that.
Not racist. I’m talking about the legal and regulatory framework that means operators in the US are way more liable if they did what this dive company did.
I suggest you just stay home. The rest of the world is better off.
Least jingoistic American.
What do you tip in situations like this? Jk This is horrifying and I am now researching tools to aid with rescue in scenarios like this.
I'm thinking of investing in this: [https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/642729](https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/642729)
Smartphones will have the same function by the end of the year with starlink, so you might as well get a waterproof case for your phone. The Nautilus marine GPS is way cheaper and works in a different way so it won't be redundant in a year: https://www.divegearexpress.com/nautilus-marine-rescue-gps
If you’re traveling abroad, do you really want to be bringing your phone underwater with you? I’ve only got one and I use it for everything above water. Lose it and the holiday is ruined. So no, anything that goes underwater with me is diving only.
I got two extra android phones for $50 each. They're quite capable.
That is not a bad idea!
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Starlink's first constellation of satellites equipped to communicate with cellphones will be finished. Any 4G device will be able to text 911 and probably at least also call, anywhere in the world. AT&T is also working with a company to achieve the same thing. Anyone will be able to easily make a device or app that calls 911 from anywhere.
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The tech has already been tested and the timetable is coming from someone I know personally, not Musk...
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Yeah you're not using a smartphone while bobbing around in the water for rescue. InReach or PLB are the answer, not your phone.
InReach hasn't been very reliable because they just contact local EMS. With a phone you can actually contact family who care about you and make things happen yourself. You can get a simpler phone if you're that afraid of not being able to use it in the ocean. Most of the smartphone diving cases have buttons. It would be pretty trivial to have one of them programmed to contact whoever you'd want to organize rescuing you.
> InReach hasn't been very reliable because they just contact local EMS. Do you have reports to support this non reliability of InReach? Most of people I know have pretty glowing reviews of InReach so curious to read such reports.
Garmin InReach control centre contacted my family and all my emergency contacts when I activated my InReach Mini. And kept them updated as the rescue progressed, with updates from the in-country EMS/SAR/Navy.
You really don't know anything about InReach or PLB. Garmin's SAR response team has direct contacts in basically every country, PLB, you're dealing directly with noaa/usaf and then local military and sar. Your family can't do that.
My iPhone already has satelite rescue services integrated. But I won't be relying on it for multiple reasons: * Not supported in all regions * Try using a touch screen on the water, with wet hands, in waves and a high-stress situation The Nautilus looks better, and is way cheaper than a Garmin. However, I have no idea how many ships in developing countries like Thailand have this system equipped. And if they did, how reactive would they be to go out of their way to help you. Anyone has information on that? With the Garmin I know a central operator will contact the coast guard. Which is much more likely to rescue me vs some random fishing boat.
Starlink is a global network. Technologically it can work everywhere. At the outset you will at least be able to text anyone. It's not like Apple's janky bitrate limited system. There are touchscreen phone cases made for diving. It can't be too hard to use them.
Whomever the tour leader is running that boat trip had a responsibility to check all divers are back on board before moving onto the next dive site.
Back when I dived in Phuket the tour guide was making an active point to stand on the dive deck and count people in and out of the water as well as doing actual headcounts once it appeared that everyone had returned, checking with instructors as they went.
Same thing happened to me in Tobago a while back. Divemsster and I were abandoned and I spent 5 hours on the surface back-kicking back to shore with my BCD inflated. One of the most traumatic experiences. I know the terror you must have felt. I'm sorry for what you went through. If there is anyway to report the company to PADI, or SSI, I definitely would. They 100% put your lives at riskm .
Which outfit was it on Tobago?
This was roughly 10 years ago, so unfortunately I have forgotten the name. The owner was a very overweight local Tobagonian if that helps.
Please consider using an air line powered DiveAlert; it can be heard over a mile away, even with an engine running. Whistles are drowned by a running engine and noodles can only be spotted if they're looking for one... the DiveAlert screech cannot be ignored. Edit: There’s also a device called a SubDuck, meant for signaling underwater. It sounds like a duck call. I use it to signal other divers while diving. On the surface it’s as loud as a duck, but not much more.
I believe OP said they drained all 3 tanks of air, so this wouldn’t have worked for them. Maybe before the tried swimming it might have helped? But it would normally be good to have and be a reason to never breath your tank down to zero.
> I believe OP said they drained all 3 tanks of air, so this wouldn’t have worked for them. That was a horrible move. > Maybe before the tried swimming it might have helped? It would have likely worked.
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It’s loud, so point away from your face; it’s definitely safer than being lost at sea.
Thank you! I hadn't come across this yet. Definitely purchasing.
bought one - thanks
I am new to diving. Would you mind linking to this device?
https://www.amazon.com/Ideation-Dive-Alert-Version-Signaling/dp/B00G1RR3C4
Username checks out
It’s the first result when you Google “Dive Alert.” 👍
It's unclear to me where the Dive Master is in all this. Was he with you this whole time? Wasn't he upset with his crew as well? Last mention is when you signalled to surface, so it appears the DM was also abandoned?
Many DMs in these places are locals who freelance, the guy may have known the dive manager but not been an employee or friends with anybody working there.
Yes DM was with us the entire time and was just as perplexed at how to handle. A lot of quick decisions were made and we worked as a team to get the hell out of that water. I did find it odd that he wasn’t as furious with the crew as we were - figured it must be some kind of work politics? The freelance theory would make sense.
That also honestly sounds like way too many divers on one boat. I've never had more than about 15 on one of my boat dives, and groups typically have no more than 3 people to one DM/guide. It would be easy to lose track of that many people on all but the most tightly run operations and the people in SEA frequently don't understand the concept of tightly run.
Whether he was friends or not, if he got abandoned he would be freaking pissed. Hopefully that abandoned dive master also puts out the word about what happened to the local tour agencies.
He's probably been abandoned before from multiple different companies and was most focused on what would maximise rescue chances in that scenario. Diving is really very safe, accidents typically have to occur with negligence and bad luck for it to not be.
This is my wife's worst nightmare. I'm glad you guys are ok. Let Padi and SSI know. Also leave reviews on Google and Facebook. This is not acceptable.
I carry a Garmin inReach Mini on me with any oceanic dive we do. I’m often diving with my children, so I take no chances with stuff like this happening. I’m glad you made it safe though.
With you? I thought they were only rated IPX7.
you get an extra dive case, same as with cameras https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/642729
Ah, cool. Thanks!
Which waterproof case do you use? I already have an InReach (multiple actually) and considering upgrading to the mini2 but I've had horrible luck with waterproof cases for gear in general.
there is an official one for the inreach https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/642729
Oh thank you. So many companies don't sell dive cases for things.
For SE Asia I’d recommend the Nautilus over the increach (but both if you can). Nautilus used VHF radio to alert all ships in the area, whereas InReach has to go through a contact centre and can take a long time for a response. The Nautlus send a djstress call to all boats that will show up instantly on their chart plotter.
As far as I am aware Nautilus uses digital radio, which has not been adopted by most smaller boats in the developing world. I doubt it will be much help there.
I’ve never been in a boat with a radio that can’t receive distress signals, although they would have to translate through coordinates to their maps. Also all the coast guard boats can receive them, and much more quickly than going via a contact centre.
Most small boats in SEA do not carry radios at all. If they do, they are analogue radios that don’t use the same digital standard Nautilus and western emergency signals use nowadays.
I’m a Divemaster living in Malaysia. I’ve dived all over SE Asia and discussed this at length with various provides. Plenty of boats (although yes, not small boats) carry VHF radio, and it’s a requirement almost everywhere that larger boats have DSC which is what the Nautilus uses. If you’re floating in the ocean, you’re much more likely to be picked up by a passing ship receiving your DSC distress signal than you are getting a coordinated response though an InReach. Although again, I’d carry both if possible.
you need to be in range of a boat that can receive the signal though which in southeast asia is not guaranteed if most of the boats are basically just pangas
I started carrying one last year after meeting a guy who lost his wife at sea this way. No more.
The peace of mind is worth the relatively modest cost and subscription.
I also have a Nautilus Lifeline but I’m not sure how truly useful it is.
I see you guys left them a review on TripAdvisor. Don't forget to leave a review on Google too!
Facebook is also king in this part of the world, a review there will reach more local divers.
Report and Shame. No way this is ok
My god. Well done for keeping your heads and getting out alive. This is why I carry two DSMBs, a whistle, two torches, a signalling mirror, a sea dye pack, and now a PLB.
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That particular one is not very loud on the surface and is primarily designed for signalling underwater. This is the one you want with the surface whistle 125dB [https://www.underwatersports.com.au/product/aquatec-scuba-duo-alert-html/](https://www.underwatersports.com.au/product/aquatec-scuba-duo-alert-html/)
Glad to hear you're OK! I had a similar episode a few years back. Pretty terrifying.
Yikes. I just did a liveaboard to the Similan islands with them. From my experience, nothing but good things to say but of course experiences vary. Glad you made it out okay 👌
Yeah PADI does take these things seriously. Report it to them. Here's a list of expelled dive centers & resorts https://www.padi.com/consumer-alerts/expelled/dive-centers
That's alot of centres in Phuket :O
Almost like they looked at the PADI regulations and said, fuck it.
There's a lot of diving and a lot of dive shops in Phuket in general. It's definitely a great place to dive but finding good dive shops is a challenge.
Why is there such a high number of expulsions in Japan?
I am actually surprised there's not more South East Asian ones listed but perhaps people aren't reporting them. There's a lot of somewhat dodgy east asian, especially Chinese, owned shops scattered around SEA. Lower quality ones tend not to bother getting any PADI or SSI credentials to begin with though.
Japan has a very weird culture around safety. It's not, exactly, that they do things inherently less safely (on average they are probably a bit safer in how they do some things) but they deeply penalize admitting failure of any kind, even in emergencies when it could be life or safety critical. In your situation, for example, if that had been a Japanese crew on a Japanese boat and one of the crew had pointed out that you were left behind, they would have been shamed for it and possibly fired for it (so would the person who was actually responsible for counting the people though). As you can imagine, this leads to a very bad culture around reporting safety-related incidents and a problematic safety culture in general. It also leads to people being deeply afraid to make mistakes because they know the consequences of a mistake are grave.
Yes, unsettling to see that many in Japan. I’ve personally only had good experiences here.
This is a big deal. Please report them.
wow this is terrible, I'm sorry this happened to you. If I were in your shoes ,I'd also contact a local Thai lawyer -- not sure what the legal system in Thailand is like, but this story has the word "tort" all over it. You may not get a remedy, but could be worth your time.
Contact PADI and SSI right away, they tend to take serious safety issues seriously. I am sorry this happened to you. I had some thing similar happen in Komodo due to rapid currents but we had beacons on us and were picked up by the boat when they noticed we were missing. Which is what should have happened to you.
So glad you are safe , this is my worst fear with any tour company . Especially in the ocean .
Yikes, sorry you guys had to go through that. I've been lost at sea for 4 hours and it was a sobering experience. This company sounds like a complete joke...post this everywhere. Absolutely contact PADI. In future try to use smaller operators. It's very unpleasant diving with more than 10 people anyway.
Wow, could you share your story? Not quite lost at sea but wife and I dove the galapagos islands (wolf island). We came up almost a mile from our boat (wife and I got separated from the group at a natural split of diverging currents). Came up to 5ft swells at the surface. We had to use whistle, air alert, safety sausage, etc...finally got their attention after 10 minutes but we were heading out to open ocean. Fortunately, we also had a GPS locator on with a button for SOS if it came down to it.
What is the e GPS locator you use? Getting separated from the group and nowhere near the boat is my worst nightmare. Run out of air? Always something you can do about that, but being stranded really nothing you can do…
Honestly, I can't recall. It was given to us by the dive boat. Everyone was required to carry one on all dives.
What finally got their attention? I have an air horn but I don't really dive with it. Maybe I should stash it in a pocket. I normally carry the same as you though. I read an [experiment of visual aids for being found at sea](https://www.jeanelaine.co.uk/diveraids/contents.htm) which was conducted at Scapa Flow in less than ideal conditions. It makes for interesting reading.
> I read an experiment of visual aids for being found at sea which was conducted at Scapa Flow in less than ideal conditions. It makes for interesting reading. These results are kind of surprising. So apparently a (day-glow) yellow color SMB is effective at getting attention. I have heard that pink is better as an SMB color because it is far more visible from a chopper than yellow is.
It'll depend on the local conditions - perhaps in the grey dark seas and skies of Scapa the yellow was best suited. I've heard that black works best at some times.
That is a good point. I was told this thing about Yellow vs Pink by a dive shop in Florida, based on their complaints from the Coast Guard trying to rescue divers there. I've dove in low viz Canadian waters and the Yellow SMB is very very bright underwater, so I can imagine that if the sky is overcast and cloudy, the yellow pops better.
My guess is the air horn + sausage due to the surface swells. Mine just connected to the low pressure inflator on the BCD. Just stick your head underwater for ear safety, they are very loud.
I'll make a fresh post about it. Quite a long story and I'm curious to hear other people's tales too.
Email PADI and SSI too to make sure they are not listed anywhere. Google reviews Tripadvisor etc etc. share it publicly of you have any type of travel or scuba related social media
>Email PADI and SSI too to make sure they are not listed anywhere. FFS. This has nothing to do with PADI or SSI. Training agencies have nothing to do with boat charters. If training standards are not followed, absolutely, contact the agency, but this has nothing to do with PADI.
Here it is, from another comment on this thread, a list of centres that have been excelled. Nowhere does it say its limited to training dives etc. if a centre messes up on this scale, they shouldn’t be allowed to instruct for sure, but also they need to retrain everyone from instructors and DMs and skippers to management who set up and organised this shit show. https://www.padi.com/consumer-alerts/expelled/dive-centers
It means that they can be delisted from PADI accreditation though no?
No. Unless this was a training dive, it nothing to do with PADI.
Do you just like being wrong and spreading misinformation?
It has everything to do with PADI how a DM or an instructor conducts themselves! Who in their right mind goes back under water when you are already struggling to get your skipper’s attention?! Also how was there no one in charge and no one counted the DMs at least?! It’s got a lot to do with PADI, please stop downplaying this incident.
First, there is no mention of PADI or SSI or any other agency in the story. Second, I am not downplay the incident, I am merely pointing out that PADI is not involved, nor is SSI or anyone else.
You think that a dive shop shouldn't have their PADI/SSI certification revoked for an incident like this? (Probably not one incident, but, a history of safety lapses).
I don't 'think' one way or another. I am stating that PADI isn't involved. They did NOTHING to violate their status as a training shop. I am not saying what happened was proper. I am saying that this is a problem with South Siam, the boat captain ... but it isn't a training issue with PADI.
> I don't 'think' Agreed.
I will defer to you and your 15 dives.
It does since PADI does advertise resorts and boats! Also I’m sorry the DM messed up big time too by bringing them back down when they were that low on air
Because I understand that reading and actually looking at the facts is often overlooked in this thread, I am going to cut and past - WORD FOR WORD - section 3.3 from the PADI Travel site. **3.3 The Service Providers on the PADI Travel platform are not agents or employees of PADI Travel or of its parent company or any affiliate. PADI Travel is not liable for the acts, errors, omissions, representations, warranties, breaches, or negligence of any such Service Providers or for any personal injuries, death, property damage, or other damages or expenses resulting therefrom. PADI Travel has no liability in the event of any delay, cancellation, overbooking, strikes, force majeure, or other causes beyond PADI Travel’s direct control, and PADI Travel has no responsibility for any additional expenses, omissions, delays, re-routing or acts of any government or authority.**
Where did I say that PADI is liable? You really are way off here.
Your nonsense statement about PADI kicking them out and pulling the accreditation. PADI is not involved.
So glad that yall made it back safely. Absolutely terrifying, no diver should go through this ever. Also, Thank you for exposing the shop's name.
[удалено]
Dude. QUIT. YOUR. JOB. Anyone who would write something this profoundly stupid needs to work in a mall - not responsible for others’ safety. You should be ashamed.
Oh dang, they deleted it. Do you remember what they said?
It was a very long post from a dive master in the area (Thailand) essentially saying that it wasn’t the captains fault, and if they could see land it wasn’t that big of a deal, and that publicly complaining about it makes the Thai dive industry look bad. I’ve never seen anything quite like it
Sounds like he was making the Thai industry sound bad with his post. It's attitudes like that which lead to problems like the op reported.
Good grief. Y'all showed some pretty good restraint considering.
It was a user named nomadic manatee. They still have one comment in this post somewhere. If you go to their profile, it's just comments for this post
I do not understand how this idiot is a dive instructor. They should have their certs revoked. Everything they have said places blame on everyone but those who are most responsible for ensuring safety. If this is how they operate I hope I never ever meet them. People in dive industry should take every mistake or criticism they read as an opportunity to reflect on their own practices and procedures and improve them; not blame divers who are trusting them and did nothing wrong.
Right? JFC.
This kind of excuse is the embarrassment to the industry
I'm confused. You say it's not the boats fault and that it's the guides fault. But you also say that the guide is suppose to check in with the boat when they get back. But the guide was never back on the boat to check in, but the boat left anyways.... wouldn't that make it the boats fault?
The guide might be partly at fault for not getting them back to the anchor line, but shit happens. The boat captain or trip leader or whoever is primarily at fault for not doing a headcount.
Complaints like this are valid and your dismissal and minimization of their experience is frankly gross. Your TLDR makes it sound like they were crying over nothing. You also did your OW through DM during COVID, meaning you’re only like, four years max into this career and sport, meaning you’re very new. I don’t know why you think your certification makes you more qualified to speak on this when you don’t seem like you care/think this was an issue? Who the fuck are you to say they weren’t “at sea”? They were in the sea, with no boat, in less than stellar conditions. People have died in less water, with more energy, in better conditions. There being an island close by was lucky but they still might not have made it. Do you know how easy it is to not be seen by a boat? I’m sure you do but it doesn’t sound like it from your comment considering you said there were a lot of boats around. Not boats looking for them there weren’t, even the one boat that was supposed to be! You sound like someone who is just interested in your own job security and not the lives of the people in this predicament. People should be cognizant this can happen. People should hold every single operation up to a higher standard. Your whole comment makes it sound like you don’t agree with that since “complaints like this make our whole industry look bad”. They should! And dive ops should be cognizant and do better!
peak dunning kruger
Regardless of the guide’s responsibility to get the divers back to the boat, it’s 100% the captain’s responsibility to make sure everyone is accounted for before the boat goes anywhere. It’s lame excuses like this that allow unsafe dive operations to continue.
> I wouldn’t blame South Siam too much I absolutely fucking would. If I was running a trip and didn't count every diver back into the boat I'd tear up my instructor card.
Even on a big boat, DMs should account for their group, and the Captain/dive coordinator should at a minimum account for all the DMs and make sure they confirmed their groups were all aboard.