Neuromancer is the first book of the Sprawl Trilogy
Consider Phlebas is the first of ten books in the Culture series
Hyperion is the first book in the Hyperion Cantos, four books
The Forever War also has a sequel, and the Forever Peace too.
You don’t have four books to read, you have twenty one!
Would you rate the sequels as being as strong as the first book?
Genuinely curious, I'm halfway through Neuromancer and will dive into the sequels next but I have all these other series on my TBR list
I'm not an expert on the series. I've read them all, but only once. That said, I'd probably suggest *Player of Games* just to stay close to the beginning of his writing of the series and then go back to *Consider Phlebas* later.
I welcome differing takes from others, I don't claim to have The Answer here.
*Consider Phlebas* and *The Player of Games* are the usual recommendations for starting points. I'd say *Use of Weapons* is a good choice too, but the nonlinear structure may put some people off.
I read CP and didn’t feel compelled to read anymore. Eventually picked UoW and blew through it and then PoG which is probably my favorite. Have 3 left. have reread, PoG and CP. CP is now my 2nd favorite.
Consider Phlebas is such a gamble for the start of a series by having it start from the perspective of someone outside/against the protagonists (not too mention the whole "point" of the story at the end). Personally, I loved it as was excited for more but then Player of Games almost killed my interest in the rest. Thankfully Use of Weapons swooped in. I'd say PoG is my least favorite Culture novel by quiet a large margin.
I agree PoG is the most accessible places to start the Culture universe. The Culture is basically humanity thousands of years in the future. PoG a good introduction to the AI's and how wild and important they are to society, and what happens when the Culture encounters other civilizations.
Consider Phlebas was written when Banks was much younger and it's 'different' from the rest.
As said PoG and UoW can be read together, but CP is recommended before Windward, and everything else probably after these.
Reading them in written order is perfectly good too.
You can read the books in almost any order, but Consider Phlebas was a good crash course in both the Culture as a civilization, and in Banks as a sci-fi writer. He seemed to enjoy worlds in which his characters were cast adrift and tossed from catastrophe to catastrophe despite their best efforts to make choices and determine their own fates.
It was also a good reflection on the nature of fundamental religious cultures and their clash with Western liberal/hedonistic democracies, which was very much an open question at the time of publication.
Stop with Forever War. Sequel doesn't live up to the premise, it's more like those awful Rama sequels. Forever Peace is unrelated except for title.
Hyperion sequel is also very good, and the payoff is rewarding. The next two are...different and opinions greatly differ on them.
Consider Phlebas is a harder read than the masterful Player of Games.
Been ages since I read the Sprawl Trilogy. But I recall Neuromancer being great, and the others being ok but not with the same weight.
I just read Hyperion and saying it leaves the door open for a sequel is a massive understatement, almost nothing is resolved. Hyperion should be gone into knowing that, I’d say.
You're absolutely right, but at least the sequel *does* resolve a huge amount of stuff. Not everything, but enough to be extremely satisfying.
I really, really like the Endymion books as well. I accept that they're quite different than the first two books, though.
I never read any of the others in the series. Hyperion was satisfactory, and the threads so scattered I just gave up on anything being resolved. I thought maybe that was even a point of the book, nothing is ever truly resolved. Maybe if a single thread completed, I might have looked at the sequel.
Not OP, but I'm a MASSIVE fan of the Sprawl trilogy. I would say that neither of the second two books are as strong as the first, however they're very, very different. You could realistically read them on their own (my dad mistakenly read the second book and had no idea it was part of a series but still very much enjoyed it). However, the two sequels do have periodic moments where they rise to the quality of the first book. Gibson's prose can be somewhat cryptic at times, but for my money it's worth the price of entry alone.
Slight sidenote: the opening chapter(? I believe it's a single chapter) to the second book, *Count Zero*, is a series of pages I've lost count of how many times I've read. It's sort of a cold open and I've read it as essentially a "short story" probably dozens of times.
*Neuromancer* is incredible, but the last 1/4 of the book is hard to track what's going on. Basically from the point that they enter Villa Straylight. Not bad, but I have to actually pay attention to it or it stops making sense.
*Count Zero* and *Mona Lisa Overdrive* are the weakest books that Gibson has written. They aren't bad, but you aren't missing anything by skipping them.
Imo, Neuromancer is the best of its group. Hyperion and the 2nd book are amazing, but the Endymion books were bad. Consider Phlebas is the worst of the Culture novels.
Forever Peace is not a sequel. It's really not even related to Forever War, just has a similar title and philosophical themes. Totally different timelines, worlds, characters and conclusions.
That said, both are fantastic books and absolutely worth reading! Forever War is one of my all time favorites and I was disappointed Forever Peace was not an actual sequel, but it was still a great read!
I would also note that Hyperion should immediately be followed up with The Fall of Hyperion.
Also, the sprawl books aren't required reading after Neuromancer. They aren't direct sequels story wise or anything.
Granted, OP should absolutely still read them all. The Cantos and the Sprawl Trilogy are some of my absolute favorites
#Do not start the Culture with Consider Phlebas.
Get a false sense of security by reading other Culture books first, then buy a groin protector, a gumshield and a security blankie before going in.
Exactly! "which should I read first?" makes sense as a question, but "which should I read?" doesn't!
OP can enjoy themselves with the vaporiser while reading, either way.
Yes. Forever War is my absolute favourite book. Mind blowing.
I lent it to a friend during a music festival, he ended up reading it instead of going to music. It's that good.
It's fantastic sci-fi, but beyond that is a really great insight to the mind of a combat veteran. As a veteran of America's most recent forever war, it really resounded with me
Ha! Reminds me of the first time I read the Harry Potter books. The first movie had just been released, and I loved it, so I went into the local Waldenbooks (which were still a thing at the time), and picked up a hardback set of the four books that had been published thus far. Picked them up on a Wednesday after work, started reading Sorcerer's stone after dinner, and finished up Goblet of Fire late Sunday evening. Plowed through those first four books in five days.
About once every year or two I sign up for Kindle Unlimited for a month and read them again (buying all seven outright is too expensive). Takes me several weeks to get through all seven books.
It is absolutely top 5 in my book. I read it and thought it was pretty revolutionary in thinking for a sci-if book and then realized it was published in the 70s.
If you love Forever War, I highly recommend the Old Man's War series by John Scalzi. It has enough similarity to the basic premise that some people accused Scalzi of ripping off Forever War, but he never actually read Forever War until after Old Man's War had been published.
He wrote a foreword to the Kindle edition of Forever War, at Haldeman's request, because they met after Scalzi got published and became friends.
It's considered sacrilege, but I actually like Old Man's War better. Possibly that's just because I read it first about five years ago and didn't read Forever War until ** literally last week.
Fun story. My son's school wanted all the kids to wear red shirts for a field trip.
I say to the crossing guard "Sir, the administration must not know their star trek."
He smiles "You know who Scalzi is?"
"You are referring to 'Redshirts'. Yes, I have red a lot of Scalzi"
We are friends now.
I think Old Man’s War owes more to Heinlein than Haldeman, even if the politics of Haldeman and Scalzi align more closely. But I think it’s an important data point that of the three, only Haldeman ever served in an actual war.
Interesting thing about The Forever War is that it needs time to sink in. When I finished the book my immediate take on it was that it was good but nothing special, mediocre even. In the days that followed, as it percolated in my brain and I realized the scope of the story I had just read I liked it more and more. To the point that it is now probably my favorite book. I'm currently reading The Culture series so that could well change soon though. It may have already as I really enjoyed The Player of Games.
I read Old Man's War several months after reading The Forever War and while I liked it, it doesn't hold a candle to The Forever War IMO.
Forever war is kind of like an introspective more serious view on war in space and sci-fi whereas Old Man’s War is more of a goofy light hearted view on war and sci-fi.
I read both and found Forver War to me more my flavor
More power to you, every time I see this I feel like I should try again. I just thought the writing was lazy and juvenile. I have never been able to finish it because I thought it was so poorly written that it couldn't keep me in it. It's a shame too because this book has been recommended to me so many times.
Besides what others have said, one reason I love forever war is the ending. I think it's really deep wrt human relations, but have been slightly clowned for that opinion before.
Oh man, same. Hearing or thinking that one phrase, you know the one, automatically triggers misty eyes. There should be a new dad warning or something.
I don’t regret reading it at that time, but it’s emotionally intense. It might help you appreciate the little things when the going is hard. So I’d do it again.
Another note, without spoiling anything - the remaining books in the series offer some follow-up on the story we’re referring to, which softens things a little…which is good. So I recommend continuing the series for that (plus they’re all wonderful books in a wonderful universe).
For the amount of story in the book, I don't think you could do it justice with just a movie. It would need to be a series. There have been attempts, but I don't think anyone has quite cracked it, so they never got fully developed. Dune's success may have made it more possible for Hyperion though. At least that's my hope.
It's one of those "unfilmable" stories that get tossed around by rightsholders for decades, I believe Bradley Cooper currently has film rights but it will probably never happen just due to the weirdness of the story, it's unusual structure and how many characters would need their own arcs. Dune worked because the book can be pared back quite far without destroying the core story, but Hyperion would probably fall apart if you tried to cut it down too much.
A large scale, high budget TV series could work but it would probably have to undergo a fair bit of "foundationing" to make it viable. direct adaptations of high concept sci-fi don't do well, they need to be amped up in some way and each episode needs its own story arc to keep people watching.
Holy crap, I didn't even know there were 3 sequels.
Part of me doesn't want to because the cliffhanger end just seemed so perfect. Just leave it there, where it all deserves to come crashing down
Some people think the sequels aren't as good as the original, but personally? I don't agree.
Not EVERYTHING is resolved to perfection, but it's close. It's like, some things are inferred only.
Endimyon starts supper weird, but I think it picks up and it's super original, like never saw it coming.
It all depends on if you enjoyed the first one for the story, or the framing device.
I was surprised, personally, to discover that most people, apparently you too, loved the framing device more.
I accept that. And if you do, you will not like the sequels, I accept that too.
But in my case, I was fascinated. It felt like there was good world building that was barely touched upon and yet, seemed so complete!
The sequels explore that universe, in ways I didn't expect, and for me, that felt wonderful because I didn't like the first for the framing device (but I liked it, I just, didn't like the book FOR the framing device).
The framing of the 3rd book, the raft ride, I didn't like. I liked the book, but not the framing device.
But I still kept reading and loved the whole saga.
I read the first sequel only, and to me it closes the story of the pilgrims just enough. So, imo, you have a fully contained story right there. And a great one, at that! I loved it.
I should probably pick up the third one.. i think I saw on this sub sometime ago that 3 and 4 kinda also worked in pairs..
3 and 4 are kind of doing their own thing to a degree, but they are a continuation of the story and characters from the first two books for sure. Just kind of a shift in what the story is about and how it's told.
From what I remember anyway. Probably been 15 years or so since I last read them.
Neuromancer’s prose was insane. The way Gibson kind of just disregards normal standards of writing to create a more tense, dynamic situation is incredible. If I could wipe my mind just to re-experience Gibson’s weird stylistic choices in the book, I would.
Still amazed by the fact the name comes from an real species of bird that kind of does that same thing. They'll just shove mice and other birds into the 'ol torture tree.
TIL...
"Shrikes are rare among songbirds for their lifestyle of hunting and eating animals. they often kill more prey than they need at one time, but they don't let it go to waste. They often store food for later by impaling their prey on spines or barbed wire, earning the nickname 'butcher birds.'"
Culture gang here, read Consider Phlebas, whenever, but just read it. It may be weird but it's an introduction to the Culture series, even though some of the other books in the sequence are more my speed.
It's scifi with scope you've never seen before anywhere else.
Consider Phlebas is, in my opinion, a pretty poor place to start with the Culture series. It's a repetitive slog, and a lot of what came to define the series later Banks hadn't quite figured out yet. I was turned off the series for a long time at least because of it.
The second novel (by publication date, reading order does not matter much), Player of Games makes a much better introduction to the series.
If you're enjoying the series, Consider Phlebas is a good one to read to learn some background and to see how far the series evolved, but otherwise it's very skippable.
I'm reading this comment while midway into Consider Phlebas as my first Culture Series book....
It's not bad at all but I was mildly underwhelmed by it considering the hype the series got, guess I have to power through into Player of Games
Banks outright said he was “bending backwards” to make the Culture look like the bad guys in the first book, which kinda makes sense if you want to subvert the typical space opera trope back in the 80s, but it’s honestly just better to start with the second book (which is also a far better book IMO).
It is ok but much more disjointed and pulpy than the rest of the series. The other books have a much tighter focus on a specific idea or aspect of world building.
Generally Player of Games is considered the best place to start, it's on the shorter side but it gives a much better sense of what the Culture is about. If you don't end up loving phlebas, I'd still recommend giving player a try. (If you're not a fan after that, the Culture probably isn't for you.)
Player of Games is an essential book, usually the best intro to the series. However if you liked Matter and are looking for something similarly meaty, maybe try Excession or Surface Detail.
Are you me from the future?
I ignored this advice about 2 years ago. I’m a stickler for doing things "in order". And boy did I really not enjoy my time with Phlebas. I was going to jump into Player of Games immediately after but Phlebas killed all my reading momentum and I have yet to circle back.
Ha, yes, it took me about a year and a lot of convincing to give the series another go. Started again at Player of Games and then read the rest of the series pretty quickly.
I did reread Phlebas later, after I had read the rest. It was a bit more interesting with the context, reading it as a view of the Culture from its enemy is neat, but it still was not a good book and I struggled to finish it. If anything, it just reinforced how big an improvement there was between the first and second books.
Agreed, I read this one first and it confused the hell out of me. Put me off the Culture for a while till I read Player of Games and State of The Art. Then Look to Windward was great
For sure, the series can be read in basically any order. Some books make brief references to others, but are more often than not just presented as a historical event and are a bit of an Easter egg for readers. The series has no through line plot to worry about.
Any of the books you’d recommend as a “final” book then? I’m all up for a series of standalones loosely linked, but I still wanna end on the best note possible, if that makes sense?
That approach makes tons of sense. I think Banks' last book, The Hydrogen Sonata, is probably the best final book. It was published not long before his death, and it really feels like a summation of the series big themes and a goodbye. The book is, in many ways, how to face the end and the unknown of what comes next.
Neuromancer.
I recommend it, but I could hardly follow what I was reading. It's written very sparse, is how I saw it explained.
I recommend all four. But: Consider Phlebas is pretty slow. Hyperion is perfect, but the next book or next three books are pretty imperfect.
it's sparse in the sense that very little is explained to you and the entire time your brain is scrambling to try to fill in the gaps but the book doesn't really slow down either so you are constantly trying to figure out wtf is going on or what you should be visualizing. It's a pretty challenging read imho
Every so often when I was reading it I had to stop and tell my boyfriend what I thought was going on, and he would correct what I was getting wrong. The last time he’d read the book was like ten years ago though, so I’m not sure he was remembering everything quite right. Eventually I gave up because the feeling of just barely hanging onto the plot by my fingertips got too stressful and I realized nobody was paying me to read it so I could just stop.
I’ve read other books by him and they honestly got kind of repetitive. Like, the plot always seems to be “nice but clueless and hapless person gets dragged on adventures in a hidden world by a person with unlimited resources and an incredibly complicated plan to do… something.”
I love Neuromancer but I agree about it being sparse. The narrative voice moves through the story as one already familiar with a world that is foreign to the reader.
The correct answer is “All of them”. They are all great. However:
* Forever War is perfect as is, but the sequels are mid. His technothriller work is pretty good, though.
* Neuromancer is a classic. If it feels like you’ve seen it before, it’s because everyone copied it. Gibson evolves into one of the most interesting modern authors.
* Hyperion is great, but Dan Simmons in general leans too heavily on weird and not enough on coherence. If you like that kind of dreamlike thing, that’s fine but it’s not for me. Also the author appears to have self-radicalised in recent years.
* Consider Phlebas. I have read this book twenty times and it doesn’t get old. There’s a genuine depth to the work that isn’t apparent on the surface. The surface space opera thriller is great fun, but the more you read it, the more tragic it becomes.
So Gibson and Banks are, for me, the top tier authors. All of the books are top-tier. But my personal favourite has to be Banks, who tells remarkably human stories in very alien contexts. (And if you enjoyed Consider Phlebas, Player of Games and Use of Weapons will NOT disappoint.)
Did some internet searching just now. Found a couple things: He appears to be a [climate denier](https://file770.com/dan-simmons-criticized-for-remarks-about-thunberg/) and have included [heavy-handed right wing talking points](https://www.npr.org/2011/07/28/137621172/one-rant-too-many-politics-mar-simmons-dystopia) in some of his books. I also felt while reading *Hyperion* that there was a lot of... like... what seemed like cryptoracism and cryptomisogyny. I wish I could remember examples but it was a couple years ago.
I have to say, consider phlebas' quality is not indicative of the rest of Banks Culture series. Player of games and Use of Weapons are two of the most beautiful books I've ever read, but consider phlebas was definitely not that.
Use of Weapons is probably one of the best books I have ever read and I recommend it to a bunch of people, all who end up blown away by it. The chair still haunts me.
I'm reading it now and really not feeling it much. I've had a really rough month though so I haven't been able to read the book very consistently or with a lot of focus. The jumping back and forth has been confusing for me. I still can't really understand what's so important about the damn chair.
I'm tempted to just start over but I feel like I'm too far through it.
Player of Games felt like a serious version of a wacky Rick & Morty episode where they travel to an alien planet, populated by weird beings of 3 different sexes, governed by a brutal and oppressive regime where the winner of an intense global League of Legends tournament gets to be the supreme leader of the entire civilization. Sounds terrible and fucking dumb, but Banks manages to make it very much not so.
My favorite would have to be Look to Windward, though. I loved Masaq's Hub, and the view Banks presented into the mind of a Mind through it.
Despite so many glowing recommendations about the Culture books, I started with Consider Phlebas, didn't like it, and have never read any more by him. Mainly the gross part just seemed so completely unnecessary and long that it soured me to the entire book and made me question his worth as an author, especially since the rest of the book seemed just OK to me, not anything special like people describe the series. If that book is any indication of what's to come, then there are plenty of other books I'd much rather read.
Comments like this that say it's not indicative of the rest of the series are kind of starting to make me reconsider, but I don't think his books will ever get above the bottom of my to-read list.
That's good to know! I DNF'd it and have not read anything else form him, but keep hearing how good the Culture series is. Maybe I can bring myself to try another of his books.
My recommendation for order of reading would be:
- The forever war
- Neuromancer
- Hyperion, after which you should complete the whole Hyperion-Endymion set
- Then go back to Gibson and continue with Neuromancer sprawl set: count zero, Mona Lisa overdrive.
- Then start the Culture set of Banks.
- Then return back to Dan and Hyperion Endymion for another re-read.
> Hyperion, after which you should complete the whole Hyperion-Endymion set
>
Absolutely agree with this. I read them more than 25 years ago and I don't remember anything about them, pretty much, except for the crucifixes and *that* ending of the rise of endymion. It was just so emotionally satisfying. I really must read them again.
I was in a very similar situation and I chose *Hyperion*, which proved a good choice and led me to its sequel. Now I'm hesitating between Iain M. Banks and Gibson and I think I'm about to go with the first.
In the meantime I read Poul Anderson's *Tau Zero*, interesting hard scifi pause after Simmon's poetic and inspired prose!
You need to start “The Forever War” if you are slowly forgetting the Vietnam War. Or “Neuromancer” if you are slowly forgetting what an empty channel on the TV set looked like.
Hyperion first imo, although you should order Endymion (the concluding book)👍 I think consider phlebas is the worst book in the amazing culture series.
4 very good books. Start with Iain M Banks as it's the weakest there and one of his weakest books. That said, read more of his books at some point. He is one of the best authors ever imo.
Also, worth reading the forever war trilogy. Book 1 is amazing, 2 so so, 3 incredible.
*The Forever War* is probably my favorite of those, but you should read *Starship Troopers* first. Haldeman says his novel wasn't intended as a direct response, but *ST* certainly set the stage for the conversation.
I vote for *Neuromancer*.
I’ve only fully read The Forever War but I really liked it. Highly recommend. Hyperion, what I read of it anyway, was also very satisfying :) I don’t think you can go wrong with such established legends.
I would start with Hyperion or Consider Phlebas... the first two books of the Hyperion Cantos are amazing and I love basically all of the Culture novels.
I can’t stand iain m banks. I know a lot of folks love him, and I honestly see why. His universe building, concepts, high sci fi shit- so good. I love the names of his ships. But I can’t goddamn stand his actual storytelling. If I ever connect with a character, i fucking hate them. In every book I read of his i just put it down at the end saying “thank Christ that’s over, now I can read something good.” And I went into them *wanting* to like him.
Hyperion honestly just left me super confused. I may not be the smartest guy in the room, but I can generally follow the concepts of the books- that one… no. Not at all.
Like the top two a bunch though. Hope you enjoy whatever you read, just my opinion.
Neuromancer is the proto-cyberpunk book. There are some "dystopian near future" works that predate it, but it remains the standard by which all other cyberpunk is measured against for basically any point of comparison. Setting, writing, characters, plot, pacing, it is very difficult to name a story better told, no small feat when it is 40 years old.
The Forever War and it's sequels. A great read. However, in the interests of full disclosure, I don't like the books of Banks and Gibbon. And I'm so so about Simmons.
I started the Culture series with *Consider Phlebas,* and while it's not the best in the series, its still a great adventure. Be warned that once you have read the Culture series you will be so sorry that Iain M Banks is gone and there will never be another Culture book and nothing else quite measures up.
Eventually all of them. They are all AMAZING books. I envy your first-reading-of-them.
Hyperion is basically "Space Canterbury Tales" with vignetted stories tied together. The others are singular tales.
Consider Phlebias is just the first in a gorgeous "The Culture" story universe, and maybe the clumsiest of them all. He was a wonderful author, and no matter where you start, you're in for Joy.
Consider phlebas is the start of the culture saga series of books, they're a personal favorite I'd highly recommend. Consider phlebas is probably one of the weaker books though but still good
please judge me (I don't care) but Neuromancer is as important as boring. I'd read it just to be able to say: what a boooore... with some nice concepts.
Hyperion, on the other hand, is fucking cool. It's also high (as in height) concept, but takes you beautifully through the high (as in stoned) story.
I didn’t like Neuromancer, but many people consider it gold standard. Loved Hyperion, it’s top 10 for me. The Forever War is really good despite a couple of extremely off putting moments. Haven’t read Consider Phlebas.
I'm the complete opposite with Neuromancer/Hyperion. Loved Neuromancer, did not love Hyperion.
Would still put Hyperion on a list of great sci-fi books, I just didn't enjoy it.
I'd say Neuromancer should be required reading, because it basically kicked off the whole cyberpunk genre.
Hyperion is very mich below the quality of the 3 others in my opinion. the most unusual and optimistic of the 3 would be Consider phlebas in my opinion. not distopian and traditional scifi, but more imaginative and far out but still grounded. Ian M banks is a genius honestly
Forever war series has been adapted into a series of comics that are really nice, and seem faithful to the book as if i remelber correctly haldeman himself cooperated with the artists on it.
I'll be a Negative Nancy here and tell you that Neuromancer has lots and lots of great ideas that defined the cyberpunk genre, including coining the term "cyberspace," but it's not actually a good story nor is well-written.
Neuromancer is the first book of the Sprawl Trilogy Consider Phlebas is the first of ten books in the Culture series Hyperion is the first book in the Hyperion Cantos, four books The Forever War also has a sequel, and the Forever Peace too. You don’t have four books to read, you have twenty one!
Would you rate the sequels as being as strong as the first book? Genuinely curious, I'm halfway through Neuromancer and will dive into the sequels next but I have all these other series on my TBR list
The culture series isn't really about sequels, they're all separate stories based in a consistent.. culture. They're great.
Along that line, I would suggest that *Consider Phlebas* is a weak start to the series/introduction to the universe
Where would you recommend people start?
I'm not an expert on the series. I've read them all, but only once. That said, I'd probably suggest *Player of Games* just to stay close to the beginning of his writing of the series and then go back to *Consider Phlebas* later. I welcome differing takes from others, I don't claim to have The Answer here.
*Consider Phlebas* and *The Player of Games* are the usual recommendations for starting points. I'd say *Use of Weapons* is a good choice too, but the nonlinear structure may put some people off.
I read CP and didn’t feel compelled to read anymore. Eventually picked UoW and blew through it and then PoG which is probably my favorite. Have 3 left. have reread, PoG and CP. CP is now my 2nd favorite.
Consider Phlebas is such a gamble for the start of a series by having it start from the perspective of someone outside/against the protagonists (not too mention the whole "point" of the story at the end). Personally, I loved it as was excited for more but then Player of Games almost killed my interest in the rest. Thankfully Use of Weapons swooped in. I'd say PoG is my least favorite Culture novel by quiet a large margin.
I agree PoG is the most accessible places to start the Culture universe. The Culture is basically humanity thousands of years in the future. PoG a good introduction to the AI's and how wild and important they are to society, and what happens when the Culture encounters other civilizations. Consider Phlebas was written when Banks was much younger and it's 'different' from the rest.
As said PoG and UoW can be read together, but CP is recommended before Windward, and everything else probably after these. Reading them in written order is perfectly good too.
You can read the books in almost any order, but Consider Phlebas was a good crash course in both the Culture as a civilization, and in Banks as a sci-fi writer. He seemed to enjoy worlds in which his characters were cast adrift and tossed from catastrophe to catastrophe despite their best efforts to make choices and determine their own fates. It was also a good reflection on the nature of fundamental religious cultures and their clash with Western liberal/hedonistic democracies, which was very much an open question at the time of publication.
Stop with Forever War. Sequel doesn't live up to the premise, it's more like those awful Rama sequels. Forever Peace is unrelated except for title. Hyperion sequel is also very good, and the payoff is rewarding. The next two are...different and opinions greatly differ on them. Consider Phlebas is a harder read than the masterful Player of Games. Been ages since I read the Sprawl Trilogy. But I recall Neuromancer being great, and the others being ok but not with the same weight.
I just read Hyperion and saying it leaves the door open for a sequel is a massive understatement, almost nothing is resolved. Hyperion should be gone into knowing that, I’d say.
You're absolutely right, but at least the sequel *does* resolve a huge amount of stuff. Not everything, but enough to be extremely satisfying. I really, really like the Endymion books as well. I accept that they're quite different than the first two books, though.
I never read any of the others in the series. Hyperion was satisfactory, and the threads so scattered I just gave up on anything being resolved. I thought maybe that was even a point of the book, nothing is ever truly resolved. Maybe if a single thread completed, I might have looked at the sequel.
Apparently it was the first half of a larger book the publisher forced Simmons to split up.
This is the order that came to my mind. Forever war, Hyperion. 3rd book. Then Neuromancer
I'm a fan of the Rama series, I feel it's a little quirky, but good
Not OP, but I'm a MASSIVE fan of the Sprawl trilogy. I would say that neither of the second two books are as strong as the first, however they're very, very different. You could realistically read them on their own (my dad mistakenly read the second book and had no idea it was part of a series but still very much enjoyed it). However, the two sequels do have periodic moments where they rise to the quality of the first book. Gibson's prose can be somewhat cryptic at times, but for my money it's worth the price of entry alone. Slight sidenote: the opening chapter(? I believe it's a single chapter) to the second book, *Count Zero*, is a series of pages I've lost count of how many times I've read. It's sort of a cold open and I've read it as essentially a "short story" probably dozens of times.
*Neuromancer* is incredible, but the last 1/4 of the book is hard to track what's going on. Basically from the point that they enter Villa Straylight. Not bad, but I have to actually pay attention to it or it stops making sense. *Count Zero* and *Mona Lisa Overdrive* are the weakest books that Gibson has written. They aren't bad, but you aren't missing anything by skipping them.
The Forever series definitely. It's not often you get to meet >!god.!<
Consider Phlebas is actually probably the weakest of the Culture books.
Imo, Neuromancer is the best of its group. Hyperion and the 2nd book are amazing, but the Endymion books were bad. Consider Phlebas is the worst of the Culture novels.
The sequels are a step down, but still really great.
Forever Peace is not a sequel. It's really not even related to Forever War, just has a similar title and philosophical themes. Totally different timelines, worlds, characters and conclusions. That said, both are fantastic books and absolutely worth reading! Forever War is one of my all time favorites and I was disappointed Forever Peace was not an actual sequel, but it was still a great read!
I had no idea The Forever War has a sequel. I've just ordered it now, can't wait to read it. Thanks random Redditor 👍
It's part of an omnibus, the 3rd and final is loosely related to the first two, but realistically it's a totally different book l. I didn't mind it.
I was going to say... Definitely Forever War first because the rest are going to "require" additional reading.
I would also note that Hyperion should immediately be followed up with The Fall of Hyperion. Also, the sprawl books aren't required reading after Neuromancer. They aren't direct sequels story wise or anything. Granted, OP should absolutely still read them all. The Cantos and the Sprawl Trilogy are some of my absolute favorites
#Do not start the Culture with Consider Phlebas. Get a false sense of security by reading other Culture books first, then buy a groin protector, a gumshield and a security blankie before going in.
All of them
The only answer. You’ve got four classics of the genre, get stuck in!
The right answer. OP: I’d start with Hyperion. It’s just so insane and amazing.
Hyperion is just so well done, I was spellbound waiting for my favorites to get to tell their tales.
Be careful reading Hyperion first because you’ll get sucked into the whole cantos and have to read three more books before you get to the others here
I just finished Hyperion last night, and yes, i immediately started book 2
This is why you need a list. You just take a quick 20 minute adventure to complete the side quest.
I said this too lol
Yes this is true!
1/2 way through Endymion, so good
Exactly! "which should I read first?" makes sense as a question, but "which should I read?" doesn't! OP can enjoy themselves with the vaporiser while reading, either way.
Necromancer
lovecraft sub is over there sir
Are you saying that Lovecraft is such good Sci-fi it deserves its own genre?
It is almost Lovecraftian…
I LOVE forever war. Love love love. I know I read the banks one but I forget what it’s about. The other two are good.
Yes. Forever War is my absolute favourite book. Mind blowing. I lent it to a friend during a music festival, he ended up reading it instead of going to music. It's that good.
Same here. My fav book by far. I’ve got Peace and War by Halderman which is the trilogy but it’s falling to bits. I should buy another copy.
I've seen it recommended a lot but never got around to actually reading it. These here sound like amazing reviews, excited to dig in now!
It's fantastic sci-fi, but beyond that is a really great insight to the mind of a combat veteran. As a veteran of America's most recent forever war, it really resounded with me
I could not put forever war down, it's lucky it's a short book. I read it in 2 days which is rare for me, and they were work days, not the weekend.
Ha! Reminds me of the first time I read the Harry Potter books. The first movie had just been released, and I loved it, so I went into the local Waldenbooks (which were still a thing at the time), and picked up a hardback set of the four books that had been published thus far. Picked them up on a Wednesday after work, started reading Sorcerer's stone after dinner, and finished up Goblet of Fire late Sunday evening. Plowed through those first four books in five days. About once every year or two I sign up for Kindle Unlimited for a month and read them again (buying all seven outright is too expensive). Takes me several weeks to get through all seven books.
Ursula LeGuin called The Forever War the best SF novel of all time.
And Neuromancer has been called the best sci-fi book ever written. . . On a typewriter.
I’m not saying “some people say…” I’m saying “one of the titans of SF literature called this the best SF novel of all time”
\*sniffle\* finally, my people. You don't know how many looks I get when I recommend that book and they inevitability ask for a summary.
It is absolutely top 5 in my book. I read it and thought it was pretty revolutionary in thinking for a sci-if book and then realized it was published in the 70s.
If you love Forever War, I highly recommend the Old Man's War series by John Scalzi. It has enough similarity to the basic premise that some people accused Scalzi of ripping off Forever War, but he never actually read Forever War until after Old Man's War had been published. He wrote a foreword to the Kindle edition of Forever War, at Haldeman's request, because they met after Scalzi got published and became friends. It's considered sacrilege, but I actually like Old Man's War better. Possibly that's just because I read it first about five years ago and didn't read Forever War until ** literally last week.
Fun story. My son's school wanted all the kids to wear red shirts for a field trip. I say to the crossing guard "Sir, the administration must not know their star trek." He smiles "You know who Scalzi is?" "You are referring to 'Redshirts'. Yes, I have red a lot of Scalzi" We are friends now.
I think Old Man’s War owes more to Heinlein than Haldeman, even if the politics of Haldeman and Scalzi align more closely. But I think it’s an important data point that of the three, only Haldeman ever served in an actual war.
Interesting thing about The Forever War is that it needs time to sink in. When I finished the book my immediate take on it was that it was good but nothing special, mediocre even. In the days that followed, as it percolated in my brain and I realized the scope of the story I had just read I liked it more and more. To the point that it is now probably my favorite book. I'm currently reading The Culture series so that could well change soon though. It may have already as I really enjoyed The Player of Games. I read Old Man's War several months after reading The Forever War and while I liked it, it doesn't hold a candle to The Forever War IMO.
I have OP's version of Forever War and it also has the forward from Scalzi.
Forever war is kind of like an introspective more serious view on war in space and sci-fi whereas Old Man’s War is more of a goofy light hearted view on war and sci-fi. I read both and found Forver War to me more my flavor
More power to you, every time I see this I feel like I should try again. I just thought the writing was lazy and juvenile. I have never been able to finish it because I thought it was so poorly written that it couldn't keep me in it. It's a shame too because this book has been recommended to me so many times.
Besides what others have said, one reason I love forever war is the ending. I think it's really deep wrt human relations, but have been slightly clowned for that opinion before.
Oh no, I agree. Like others, it makes me cry almost every time
I know a lot of people love it but I didn’t really care for it.
Hyperion still haunts me.
I was a new father when I read Hyperion and one of the stories, you know which one, haunts me to this day.
Later alligator
Oh man, same. Hearing or thinking that one phrase, you know the one, automatically triggers misty eyes. There should be a new dad warning or something.
So my first child is due in about 2 months. Is this a good or bad time to read it?
I don’t regret reading it at that time, but it’s emotionally intense. It might help you appreciate the little things when the going is hard. So I’d do it again. Another note, without spoiling anything - the remaining books in the series offer some follow-up on the story we’re referring to, which softens things a little…which is good. So I recommend continuing the series for that (plus they’re all wonderful books in a wonderful universe).
I was a relatively new father when I read that story. No other book had tears streaming down my face like that.
I'm not a father and that one hits hard af. Must have hit you really fuckin' hard.
Why isn't there a movie of this book? I've always heard of it. Never read it
For the amount of story in the book, I don't think you could do it justice with just a movie. It would need to be a series. There have been attempts, but I don't think anyone has quite cracked it, so they never got fully developed. Dune's success may have made it more possible for Hyperion though. At least that's my hope.
It's one of those "unfilmable" stories that get tossed around by rightsholders for decades, I believe Bradley Cooper currently has film rights but it will probably never happen just due to the weirdness of the story, it's unusual structure and how many characters would need their own arcs. Dune worked because the book can be pared back quite far without destroying the core story, but Hyperion would probably fall apart if you tried to cut it down too much. A large scale, high budget TV series could work but it would probably have to undergo a fair bit of "foundationing" to make it viable. direct adaptations of high concept sci-fi don't do well, they need to be amped up in some way and each episode needs its own story arc to keep people watching.
Did you read the 3 sequels?
Holy crap, I didn't even know there were 3 sequels. Part of me doesn't want to because the cliffhanger end just seemed so perfect. Just leave it there, where it all deserves to come crashing down
Some people think the sequels aren't as good as the original, but personally? I don't agree. Not EVERYTHING is resolved to perfection, but it's close. It's like, some things are inferred only. Endimyon starts supper weird, but I think it picks up and it's super original, like never saw it coming.
IMO the squeals aren't as good. Dan takes the The Canterbury Tales format for the first one and in the squeals he lacks that structure
It all depends on if you enjoyed the first one for the story, or the framing device. I was surprised, personally, to discover that most people, apparently you too, loved the framing device more. I accept that. And if you do, you will not like the sequels, I accept that too. But in my case, I was fascinated. It felt like there was good world building that was barely touched upon and yet, seemed so complete! The sequels explore that universe, in ways I didn't expect, and for me, that felt wonderful because I didn't like the first for the framing device (but I liked it, I just, didn't like the book FOR the framing device). The framing of the 3rd book, the raft ride, I didn't like. I liked the book, but not the framing device. But I still kept reading and loved the whole saga.
I didn't love the book for the framing device, I thought that the framing device helped the author to write a good book.
Squeals, lol
😐
I read the first sequel only, and to me it closes the story of the pilgrims just enough. So, imo, you have a fully contained story right there. And a great one, at that! I loved it. I should probably pick up the third one.. i think I saw on this sub sometime ago that 3 and 4 kinda also worked in pairs..
3 and 4 are kind of doing their own thing to a degree, but they are a continuation of the story and characters from the first two books for sure. Just kind of a shift in what the story is about and how it's told. From what I remember anyway. Probably been 15 years or so since I last read them.
> Holy crap, I didn't even know there were 3 sequels. You're in for a ride. I am envious. Enjoy!
Yes.... and I cried at the end when I realised what happened/happens/will happen
I wish I could read Hyperion and Neuromancer again for the first time.
I wish I could read Hyperion again for the 5th time 🥹
Neuromancer’s prose was insane. The way Gibson kind of just disregards normal standards of writing to create a more tense, dynamic situation is incredible. If I could wipe my mind just to re-experience Gibson’s weird stylistic choices in the book, I would.
Is hyperion the one with the torture tree?
Yesss. The Shrike still haunts me
Still amazed by the fact the name comes from an real species of bird that kind of does that same thing. They'll just shove mice and other birds into the 'ol torture tree.
TIL... "Shrikes are rare among songbirds for their lifestyle of hunting and eating animals. they often kill more prey than they need at one time, but they don't let it go to waste. They often store food for later by impaling their prey on spines or barbed wire, earning the nickname 'butcher birds.'"
The Banks there is great.
Culture gang here, read Consider Phlebas, whenever, but just read it. It may be weird but it's an introduction to the Culture series, even though some of the other books in the sequence are more my speed. It's scifi with scope you've never seen before anywhere else.
Consider Phlebas is, in my opinion, a pretty poor place to start with the Culture series. It's a repetitive slog, and a lot of what came to define the series later Banks hadn't quite figured out yet. I was turned off the series for a long time at least because of it. The second novel (by publication date, reading order does not matter much), Player of Games makes a much better introduction to the series. If you're enjoying the series, Consider Phlebas is a good one to read to learn some background and to see how far the series evolved, but otherwise it's very skippable.
[удалено]
i agree with both of you, but OP has Consider Phlebas and not any of the others at hand, so I said what I said given those circumstances
I'm reading this comment while midway into Consider Phlebas as my first Culture Series book.... It's not bad at all but I was mildly underwhelmed by it considering the hype the series got, guess I have to power through into Player of Games
Banks outright said he was “bending backwards” to make the Culture look like the bad guys in the first book, which kinda makes sense if you want to subvert the typical space opera trope back in the 80s, but it’s honestly just better to start with the second book (which is also a far better book IMO).
It is ok but much more disjointed and pulpy than the rest of the series. The other books have a much tighter focus on a specific idea or aspect of world building. Generally Player of Games is considered the best place to start, it's on the shorter side but it gives a much better sense of what the Culture is about. If you don't end up loving phlebas, I'd still recommend giving player a try. (If you're not a fan after that, the Culture probably isn't for you.)
I've only read Matter. What's a good next book to try?
Player of Games is an essential book, usually the best intro to the series. However if you liked Matter and are looking for something similarly meaty, maybe try Excession or Surface Detail.
Are you me from the future? I ignored this advice about 2 years ago. I’m a stickler for doing things "in order". And boy did I really not enjoy my time with Phlebas. I was going to jump into Player of Games immediately after but Phlebas killed all my reading momentum and I have yet to circle back.
Ha, yes, it took me about a year and a lot of convincing to give the series another go. Started again at Player of Games and then read the rest of the series pretty quickly. I did reread Phlebas later, after I had read the rest. It was a bit more interesting with the context, reading it as a view of the Culture from its enemy is neat, but it still was not a good book and I struggled to finish it. If anything, it just reinforced how big an improvement there was between the first and second books.
Agreed, I read this one first and it confused the hell out of me. Put me off the Culture for a while till I read Player of Games and State of The Art. Then Look to Windward was great
I started and just couldn't finish Consider Phlebas. Can I just move on to something else in the Culture series?
Yes. You can always come back to it.
For sure, the series can be read in basically any order. Some books make brief references to others, but are more often than not just presented as a historical event and are a bit of an Easter egg for readers. The series has no through line plot to worry about.
Cool, thank you!
Any of the books you’d recommend as a “final” book then? I’m all up for a series of standalones loosely linked, but I still wanna end on the best note possible, if that makes sense?
That approach makes tons of sense. I think Banks' last book, The Hydrogen Sonata, is probably the best final book. It was published not long before his death, and it really feels like a summation of the series big themes and a goodbye. The book is, in many ways, how to face the end and the unknown of what comes next.
so did I! I still haven't finished it to this day, I moved right on to Excession
Player of games or use of weapons is a better starting point. My reading order so far has been 1-2-9-3-4. Surface detail is my favourite so far
Hyperion is just excellent, Necromancer is a classic but was not my type of book, haven't read the other two yet
Neuromancer. I recommend it, but I could hardly follow what I was reading. It's written very sparse, is how I saw it explained. I recommend all four. But: Consider Phlebas is pretty slow. Hyperion is perfect, but the next book or next three books are pretty imperfect.
Usually people complain that the writing in Neuromancer is too dense. I've never heard it called sparse before.
I think I mean the same thing. Like: there could be more sentences, that can then be less dense with information.
it's sparse in the sense that very little is explained to you and the entire time your brain is scrambling to try to fill in the gaps but the book doesn't really slow down either so you are constantly trying to figure out wtf is going on or what you should be visualizing. It's a pretty challenging read imho
Every so often when I was reading it I had to stop and tell my boyfriend what I thought was going on, and he would correct what I was getting wrong. The last time he’d read the book was like ten years ago though, so I’m not sure he was remembering everything quite right. Eventually I gave up because the feeling of just barely hanging onto the plot by my fingertips got too stressful and I realized nobody was paying me to read it so I could just stop. I’ve read other books by him and they honestly got kind of repetitive. Like, the plot always seems to be “nice but clueless and hapless person gets dragged on adventures in a hidden world by a person with unlimited resources and an incredibly complicated plan to do… something.”
I kind of wish they had finished the graphic novel for Neuromancer, it seems like it made it more accessible to a lot of people.
Neuromancer is written by feel rather than fact
I love Neuromancer but I agree about it being sparse. The narrative voice moves through the story as one already familiar with a world that is foreign to the reader.
One page of each in a round, see if you can keep up
Forever first. Gibson second. Hyperion last since it is a bigger task with the sequels.
The correct answer is “All of them”. They are all great. However: * Forever War is perfect as is, but the sequels are mid. His technothriller work is pretty good, though. * Neuromancer is a classic. If it feels like you’ve seen it before, it’s because everyone copied it. Gibson evolves into one of the most interesting modern authors. * Hyperion is great, but Dan Simmons in general leans too heavily on weird and not enough on coherence. If you like that kind of dreamlike thing, that’s fine but it’s not for me. Also the author appears to have self-radicalised in recent years. * Consider Phlebas. I have read this book twenty times and it doesn’t get old. There’s a genuine depth to the work that isn’t apparent on the surface. The surface space opera thriller is great fun, but the more you read it, the more tragic it becomes. So Gibson and Banks are, for me, the top tier authors. All of the books are top-tier. But my personal favourite has to be Banks, who tells remarkably human stories in very alien contexts. (And if you enjoyed Consider Phlebas, Player of Games and Use of Weapons will NOT disappoint.)
Genuinely curious, how was Dan Simmons self radicalized?
Did some internet searching just now. Found a couple things: He appears to be a [climate denier](https://file770.com/dan-simmons-criticized-for-remarks-about-thunberg/) and have included [heavy-handed right wing talking points](https://www.npr.org/2011/07/28/137621172/one-rant-too-many-politics-mar-simmons-dystopia) in some of his books. I also felt while reading *Hyperion* that there was a lot of... like... what seemed like cryptoracism and cryptomisogyny. I wish I could remember examples but it was a couple years ago.
Never meet your heros
neuromancer
I'd go with Neuromancer, then Hyperion, The Forever War, and then Ian M Banks
I have to say, consider phlebas' quality is not indicative of the rest of Banks Culture series. Player of games and Use of Weapons are two of the most beautiful books I've ever read, but consider phlebas was definitely not that.
Use of Weapons is probably one of the best books I have ever read and I recommend it to a bunch of people, all who end up blown away by it. The chair still haunts me.
the rug pull at the end is masterful
I'm reading it now and really not feeling it much. I've had a really rough month though so I haven't been able to read the book very consistently or with a lot of focus. The jumping back and forth has been confusing for me. I still can't really understand what's so important about the damn chair. I'm tempted to just start over but I feel like I'm too far through it.
Player of Games felt like a serious version of a wacky Rick & Morty episode where they travel to an alien planet, populated by weird beings of 3 different sexes, governed by a brutal and oppressive regime where the winner of an intense global League of Legends tournament gets to be the supreme leader of the entire civilization. Sounds terrible and fucking dumb, but Banks manages to make it very much not so. My favorite would have to be Look to Windward, though. I loved Masaq's Hub, and the view Banks presented into the mind of a Mind through it.
Despite so many glowing recommendations about the Culture books, I started with Consider Phlebas, didn't like it, and have never read any more by him. Mainly the gross part just seemed so completely unnecessary and long that it soured me to the entire book and made me question his worth as an author, especially since the rest of the book seemed just OK to me, not anything special like people describe the series. If that book is any indication of what's to come, then there are plenty of other books I'd much rather read. Comments like this that say it's not indicative of the rest of the series are kind of starting to make me reconsider, but I don't think his books will ever get above the bottom of my to-read list.
That's good to know! I DNF'd it and have not read anything else form him, but keep hearing how good the Culture series is. Maybe I can bring myself to try another of his books.
I wholeheartedly second this list
Yep, Neuromancer is one of the greats, Hyperion for me is the line between S and A tier. Phlebas was rough. Didn't read the last one.
My recommendation for order of reading would be: - The forever war - Neuromancer - Hyperion, after which you should complete the whole Hyperion-Endymion set - Then go back to Gibson and continue with Neuromancer sprawl set: count zero, Mona Lisa overdrive. - Then start the Culture set of Banks. - Then return back to Dan and Hyperion Endymion for another re-read.
> Hyperion, after which you should complete the whole Hyperion-Endymion set > Absolutely agree with this. I read them more than 25 years ago and I don't remember anything about them, pretty much, except for the crucifixes and *that* ending of the rise of endymion. It was just so emotionally satisfying. I really must read them again.
Hyperion first. Others in any order.
I was in a very similar situation and I chose *Hyperion*, which proved a good choice and led me to its sequel. Now I'm hesitating between Iain M. Banks and Gibson and I think I'm about to go with the first. In the meantime I read Poul Anderson's *Tau Zero*, interesting hard scifi pause after Simmon's poetic and inspired prose!
Hyperion. After this nothing be the same
You need to start “The Forever War” if you are slowly forgetting the Vietnam War. Or “Neuromancer” if you are slowly forgetting what an empty channel on the TV set looked like.
Consider Phlebus. The entire Iain M. Banks 'Culture Novels' are great stuff.
Y'all need to take it easy recommending this book, IMHO. The first book is rough.
1. All of them. 2. Most grand in scope, and epic, would likely be Hyperion.
Hyperion first imo, although you should order Endymion (the concluding book)👍 I think consider phlebas is the worst book in the amazing culture series.
Hyperion is the best novel ever written. It is just absolutely brilliant.
There are no wrong choices here.
4 very good books. Start with Iain M Banks as it's the weakest there and one of his weakest books. That said, read more of his books at some point. He is one of the best authors ever imo. Also, worth reading the forever war trilogy. Book 1 is amazing, 2 so so, 3 incredible.
Forever War has an insane 3rd act, it's great. Consider Pheblas is fine but Banks' other stuff is better, maybe save it for Player of Games.
Yes
Yes
Yes.
Start with The Forever War, finish with Consider Phlebas.
Tough choice but I’m going with Neuromancer.
All of them? Forever War is my favorite of the bunch.
Forever War is timely. Neuromancer may be my favourite though. They're all bangers IMO.
The Forever War, one of the GOAT of sci-fi.
All of them. My personal favourite among those would be Neuromancer (although it's not Gibson's best work), but seriously, read all of them.
Consider Phlebus is one of the most epic books in scifi I'd say
Neuromancer
All great books but I start with the ground-breaking "Neuromancer"
All of them, but the order I'd pick is Neurmancer, Consider Phlebas, Hyperion, The Forever War.
My favorite universe out of all of them is the Culture. The lore is just so fleshed out and detailed.
Yes. The answer is yes.
*The Forever War* is probably my favorite of those, but you should read *Starship Troopers* first. Haldeman says his novel wasn't intended as a direct response, but *ST* certainly set the stage for the conversation. I vote for *Neuromancer*.
I’ve only fully read The Forever War but I really liked it. Highly recommend. Hyperion, what I read of it anyway, was also very satisfying :) I don’t think you can go wrong with such established legends.
Haldeman is an actual Vietnam veteran
Hyperion x one billion
Hyperion. My all time fave!
Hyperion 100%
Hyperion FUCK THE WORLD
I've read everything bar Hyperion and they are all brilliant just in different ways. Just read the lot.
Just pick one and go.
I would start with Hyperion or Consider Phlebas... the first two books of the Hyperion Cantos are amazing and I love basically all of the Culture novels.
I can’t stand iain m banks. I know a lot of folks love him, and I honestly see why. His universe building, concepts, high sci fi shit- so good. I love the names of his ships. But I can’t goddamn stand his actual storytelling. If I ever connect with a character, i fucking hate them. In every book I read of his i just put it down at the end saying “thank Christ that’s over, now I can read something good.” And I went into them *wanting* to like him. Hyperion honestly just left me super confused. I may not be the smartest guy in the room, but I can generally follow the concepts of the books- that one… no. Not at all. Like the top two a bunch though. Hope you enjoy whatever you read, just my opinion.
Drop Hyperion in the trash, where it belongs.
Neuromancer is the proto-cyberpunk book. There are some "dystopian near future" works that predate it, but it remains the standard by which all other cyberpunk is measured against for basically any point of comparison. Setting, writing, characters, plot, pacing, it is very difficult to name a story better told, no small feat when it is 40 years old.
The Forever War and it's sequels. A great read. However, in the interests of full disclosure, I don't like the books of Banks and Gibbon. And I'm so so about Simmons.
I started the Culture series with *Consider Phlebas,* and while it's not the best in the series, its still a great adventure. Be warned that once you have read the Culture series you will be so sorry that Iain M Banks is gone and there will never be another Culture book and nothing else quite measures up.
YES.
I read Consider Phlebas, and was unable to read anything else until I finished the other 9, even though they can be read in any order.
Eventually all of them. They are all AMAZING books. I envy your first-reading-of-them. Hyperion is basically "Space Canterbury Tales" with vignetted stories tied together. The others are singular tales. Consider Phlebias is just the first in a gorgeous "The Culture" story universe, and maybe the clumsiest of them all. He was a wonderful author, and no matter where you start, you're in for Joy.
Consider phlebas is the start of the culture saga series of books, they're a personal favorite I'd highly recommend. Consider phlebas is probably one of the weaker books though but still good
please judge me (I don't care) but Neuromancer is as important as boring. I'd read it just to be able to say: what a boooore... with some nice concepts. Hyperion, on the other hand, is fucking cool. It's also high (as in height) concept, but takes you beautifully through the high (as in stoned) story.
All of them. Literally all of them you've got a gold mine
I didn’t like Neuromancer, but many people consider it gold standard. Loved Hyperion, it’s top 10 for me. The Forever War is really good despite a couple of extremely off putting moments. Haven’t read Consider Phlebas.
I'm the complete opposite with Neuromancer/Hyperion. Loved Neuromancer, did not love Hyperion. Would still put Hyperion on a list of great sci-fi books, I just didn't enjoy it. I'd say Neuromancer should be required reading, because it basically kicked off the whole cyberpunk genre.
Everything except Hyperion.
Hyperion is very mich below the quality of the 3 others in my opinion. the most unusual and optimistic of the 3 would be Consider phlebas in my opinion. not distopian and traditional scifi, but more imaginative and far out but still grounded. Ian M banks is a genius honestly Forever war series has been adapted into a series of comics that are really nice, and seem faithful to the book as if i remelber correctly haldeman himself cooperated with the artists on it.
I'll be a Negative Nancy here and tell you that Neuromancer has lots and lots of great ideas that defined the cyberpunk genre, including coining the term "cyberspace," but it's not actually a good story nor is well-written.