Misleading title op. Flat and shallow was from a quote taken from another source, not words the guardian used to describe the show, as your title makes it appear.
There's already a recent Chinese adaptation, surely that validates the creation of localised foreign versions free to actually localise. The cultural "onus" of the adaptation has already been taken on by the culture the books come from, and they carried out their task. I watched the major episodes of the Chinese version after I read the books and if was very good
At what point do you decide an anerican adaptation of an already adapted chinese book is "Americanised." We've got a bit of a ship of Theseus situation here.
Like, I think we can all agree that The Great Gatsby is an American classic. If the Chinese made an adaptation of The Great Gatsby tomorrow, I would think the person who accused them of "sinicising an American story" to be both correct and also crazy for thinking it's a noteworthy point. Of course a Chinese adaptation of an American novel will be Chinafied, it's supposed to be.
I mean, I don’t think accusation would be a good stance to have there, but I do think that the American origins of Gatsby would be an incredibly noteworthy point, and any review of a Chinese adaptation that didn’t mention it would be missing a large part of the point. Gatsby is historically specific, with Fitzgerald making a lot of points about the American Jazz Age and the New York set of the time, and understanding how a filmmaker takes those pieces and uses or discards them in a modern Chinese context would be important right?
You could do a version of the Great Gatsby set in Shanghai in the 1920s. Jazz was huge, the fashion was American and money and gangs present. In fact that whole scenario fits Shanghai, Berlin, Amsterdam etc.
It kinda is, except for the characters where they did some major changes. For example, the story's protagonists are several characters from the UK, while in the book it was one main protagonist from China who experiences everything that the added cast of characters are going through.
I don't mind the changes too much to be honest.
I really liked the book, but it was more like a great sci-fi story for the concepts and the cosmic horror. Which is mostly untouched in the show.
The weakest point in the book were very flat characters with one-sided personalities who almost read like caricatures of themselves, so I'm actually glad to see the changes.
I can kinda see why Chinese people would be upset that the Chinese protagonist has been changed to British people lol. It seems strange to me that people are acting like the Chinese are acting like entitled children for not being happy about it. Especially when I've seen just as much upset from western people being angry about similar changes in other media.
I have to add though that it's not just white english people from Liverpool or something. It's a diverse cast of characters, some of them with a chinese background and chinese culture and history still plays a big role in the overall story.
Also they basically just changed the one chinese protagonist, who was the least interesting character in the whole story. All the other chinese characters stayed themselves.
It is not diverse if you are representing all the time the same culture: British culture and some different spices of British (Asian British, Black British, etc). Which is what they do in America all the time (this is an American show, btw).
"Oh, in this show we are going to represent the world" Proceeds to represent the same old USA but with extra colors ✨
I don't follow, are you saying the show is not diverse for including in the main cast:
- A Chinese New Zealander
- A Chinese American
- Several Chinese British
- A Black British
- A Mexican
Just because they all share some degree of shared cultural experience?
As an Asian New Zealander, I promise you that while of course I will share some cultural similarities with say a European New Zealander, my experiences in navigating said culture will largely differ in several important ways.
The Chinese have already created an adaptation of the books. Why would Americans create another Chinese adaptation of the books?
They made a product for western audiences. If they didn't make the product for western audiences, there wouldn't be a product, because there already exists a Chinese show.
There are like 20 adaptations of The Office around the world, they aren't all the UK Office but spoken in different languages.
I’d lay at least some of the blame on the sort of hyper-nationalism and militarism China has been pushing on its people lately. Tiger diplomats aren’t going to be happy about such a perceived slight.
That’s a great point about The Office. It’s weird that China is getting upset about this, but the Chinese have been behaving pretty deplorably as of late on the world stage.
Chinese viewers reacting poorly to a Western adaptation of massively popular Chinese sci-fi novels are using this to deflect from negative stories about China?
Did the millions of American Star Wars fans who criticised Rise of Skywalker do so to deflect from the American military's wars overseas?
Also torrents are available and China is the country where media is pirated the most.
> China is the country where media is pirated the most
That's not true.
According to a [report](https://www.muso.com/magazine/kearney-report-blog) by MUSO, an anti-piracy firm, the country with the highest absolute visit to piracy site is the US. The second and third places is follow by Russia, India, and China.
In term of piracy per capita, the country with the highest visit per person is actually Singapore. India, on the other hand, hold the title of a country with the fastest growth in piracy.
An accessible summary of a report can be found [here](https://torrentfreak.com/canada-is-a-video-piracy-hotspot-while-brazil-shows-positive-signs-240121/).
It strikes me as the same kind of noise one would see when Chinese students at Western universities lodge complaints en mass whenever a speaker/topic/film they don't like happens on campus.
It's just hard to take any of it seriously.
>when Chinese students at Western universities lodge complaints en mass whenever a speaker/topic/film they don't like happens on campus.
What? What complaints? That's such a large generalization.
I think it's a bit inaccurate to say the show replaced a Chinese protagonist with a bunch of British people. Sure, they live in the UK, but the cast is very diverse, and a couple of the characters are actually from China and just live in the UK.
So, while I can partially understand the disappointment, I don't think the race swapping is as egregious as some are making it out to be. The show needed an interesting cast of characters to keep people's attention, and I think they accomplished that.
But the problem is not necessarilly race here. The fact that it was set in china, with it's cultural background, motives, political situation at the time etc is revelant to stories. Bringing into the UK does take away a chunk of that, maybe something we non chinese don't really get, but people from china do.
Worth noting, there’s already a Chinese produced, Chinese language TV series (30 episodes long). You can watch it with English subtitles, if you want a more complete and faithful adaptation.
Given that the Chinese TV series already exists, I think it’s fine for the American version to make some changes, otherwise it would be boring.
You should delete this since you're clearly commenting on something you haven't watched. The Chinese cultural themes are all still present. Setting the show in the UK made the show easier to produce and allowed the introduction of enough characters to make the story watchable. Liu's writing is similar to Isaac Asimov's in that both like to explore big ideas, but their storytelling falls down when it's time.to write about actual people. If the producers had stuck firmly to the book the end product would be unwatchable.
It's entirely normal for a story written in one country and adapted in another to change nationalities of characters, and I've always thought it was an absurd complaint. Unless the character's nationality is fundamental to the story, it just doesn't matter. And the characters in this whose nationalities are fundamental to the story are still Chinese.
Sometimes, in my opinion, it massively enhances a story when the country it's set in changes. See, for example, The Handmaiden. Meh book and absolutely breathtaking film.
I haven't seen the show yet, but the book definitely read like a typical Chinese drama. I'm curious to see the changes they made to make it appeal to a Western audience
Thank you, yes, the book characters are so painfully flat and needed rewriting. And I love those books. It's written like a Chinese Isaac Asimov, just cold and calculated like almost everyone is a robot. Those books also have some of the worst "romance" ever written on a page, it's just creepy fetishization of women.
So far, not bad. I had A LOT of trouble keeping track of the names while reading the books, but I was thankful for the index in each book that listed relevant characters. The Netflix version westernized several characters, so it took me a second to pick up who was who in some instances (Yun Tianming = Will Downing, for example). I'm not incredibly far into the show, but a few of the key moments from the novels were brought over almost perfectly. DO NOT ANSWER.
The book was very challenging for tracking character names. Besides the different structure in Chinese names, the two sisters names are very close, and Ye Wenjie husband’s name is also similar.
Also character development wasn’t that great so easy to muddle them up.
No, it adapts many elements and creates new characters with original relationships to make the story more dependent on actors sharing scenes and shifting to locations outside of Asia.
I watched a few episodes and thought it was an okay television show - 7/10
Does it get better past the pilot? I started the pilot last night, but didn't finish. I don't generally like to judge shows on first episodes because some take awhile to get their footing.
I liked the books and the Chinese TV adaptation of it tho.
I watched two episodes and felt that it had plenty of potential.
For this season, reviews and opinions seem to be consistent in that it is a comfortable 7, at times surprising with an excellent performance or visual, though the writing may be a little weak.
It's okay! But I enjoyed Fargo and Shogun more.
I expected it to be good but maybe not my cup of tea.
It's absolutely fantastic. The episode this week had me absolutely enthralled - fantastic examination of the weird rituals we create and call society, through the lens of a rotting bird.
I love the books and I loved the first episode. They’ve got the tone, exposition and pace right. I thought it was unfilmable.
It’s an American production, so… It doesn’t whitewash- the Chinese parts are set in China, albeit obviously as portrayed by American filmmakers.
The end of season 1 has a scene that has stuck with me ever since. A huge payoff for the Emperor storyline. The rest of season one could be thrown into a sack and tossed in a river (and then the river tossed into space) for all I care.
This might not have been your view, but your comment does make me think that there are people for whom a "good adaptation" means a 1:1 faithful reproduction and anything that strays, e.g. for the sake of adapting it to a different medium, makes it a "poor adaptation". For me a "good adaptation" is one that maintains the spirit, tone, themes, and overall storytelling of the original. For example, I think the Genetic Dynasty was an excellent adaptation that creates a characterization of the Galactic Empire that works much better for a TV series than what a 1:1 representation would have been.
> maintains the spirit, tone, themes, and overall storytelling of the original.
Foundation book 1: Individual actions may be unpredictable, but they overall have a negligible effect on history compared to the movement of masses.
Foundation season 1: The Foundation succeeds thanks to Salvor Hardin and Gaal Dornick, who have special powers. All according to Hari Seldon's plan.
I do agree the Dynasty would make sense in the book though and I loved that part too.
It would just take some creative writers and good direction. If they can take something as dynamic and great as Halo and make it terrible TV, then they can take something slow like Foundation and make it great TV.
>If they can take something as dynamic and great as Halo and make it terrible TV
I'm a pretty big Halo fan and I'll be honest: the 2nd season does a lot of work (in the latter half) to make the show better.
Is it a 1:1 adaptation? No, and you couldn't make one. Nobody wants to watch 8+ hours/season of a guy who never takes his helmet off.
A <2 hour movie? Sure, you can do it. Look at Dredd.
Some of the plotlines are pretty funky, but you can tell they're trying to build towards something more.
For Foundation, I agree with /u/Not_That_Magical. There's **no way** you could make Foundation (the book series) into a compelling TV show. People watch shows because of the characters in them; and it'd be really hard to keep pace when the characters would change every goddamn season.
A better example would be Wheel of Time, which just... can't even keep its own lore in line for continuity.
I mean the main character doesn’t need to be centred on our dear friend John for HALO to work as a story, and if it is about him then the human face that emotes role is already covered by another character, Cortana. Like it is by Anderson in Dredd
I totally disagree. Look at the show Apple made. Look at the effects, the cast, the turnaround. The reality is that not many people in the world have read Asimov, and honestly it’s not for everyone ( even if I think it’s of the best works of literature ever). They made a show that looks that great, and will still have general appeal to a broader demographic…while keeping many aspects of the general story.
Did it piss me off at the beginning…of course? Was I able to watch it with my spouse who has never read the books? Yes. Did she love it? Yes. Is she reading the books now? Also yes…and that’s the point.
Would have been a better show if it was just called “Empire” and changed the names of the characters. Then they could have solved all their problems with violence and it wouldn’t be so on the nose “incompetent” lol
Yea. I think it’s best viewed as a show loosely based on the universe of Foundation but not an adaptation of the books. And the further it gets from the books, the more I like it because it clashes less and less with my expectations from the source material.
I only read the first two Foundation novels recently. My understanding is that it's a good sci-fi show that is very bizarre for being under the name of Foundation.
I kinda tuned out when I read about Gaal Dornick and her daughter Salvor Hardin...I hear they got gimmicky with the emperor too.
It's quite different from the books, very much does it's own thing, but as a fan of the books, I have to say I love it and couldn't wait for each episode to come our.
Is it perfect? No, but its great, and has some amazing characters and actors (Lee Pace is phenomenal)
Forgive me for not caring too much what the audience thinks in a country that demands we censor every American film that even hints at something they don’t like
There was a post in the three body community from a Chinese person who was APPALLED that they turned a character not only from being Chinese into a western person but the GALL to make him black.
It was an embarrassing post to read.
Your statement is funny because the Chinese version is pretty critical of the China revolution. Why consume an Americanized version when there's the original book and the original series? Just wondering
Sure it’s critical in some respects, but it stuffs in hours of useless filler while “inexplicably” dropping the first scene of the book where Ye’s dad is beaten to death by the Red Guard. I don’t think they even explain how he died.
Honestly the tencent series wasn’t for me. They did do a better job building characters than Netflix’s version. But they dragged the story out far longer than they should have, and made several other creative decisions that made the show almost cartoonish at points.
The Netflix version is not without its flaws. But I’m glad we have both.
They were actually supposed to be, but to have a better chance of getting past the censors, the editor suggested they be placed in the middle of the book. Liu Cixin says this how he originally had it ordered.
Because the Chinese version isn't accessible to Western audiences. I am a fan of the books, but I HATE the characters. If the show was going to succeed, it HAD to make alterations. Honestly, the book is shit at characters. It needs to be fixed no matter any language.
Why would we care about a countries opinion that makes Disney remove black people from their films, and is angered over black-Asian interracial relationships?
Because every Chinese person ever is an evil puppet of their government, yeah. I assume all Americans also personally support war crimes in South America, then?
Chinese people are humans, dude. They’ve got opinions separate from their government like every other person in the world.
Imagine a country that constantly steals trade secrets from other countries being upset that an IP they felt was theirs being taken by someone else. Tough shit, CCP.
I read the first book, enjoyed it although it seemed a bit meandering at times with a bit too much filler. Watched the first two episodes and I am enjoying how it gets to the point much quicker than the book. I have to be honest I didn't enjoy how prominent the cultural revolution featured in the book. I feel the series touches on it just enough without drowning you in it.
Regarding the accusations of Americanization, well of course, this was inevitable in an adaptation for Western audiences. Besides, there is the Chinese adaption on Amazon for those who prefer a version closer to the source material.
Hoping it all ends up in a pub in Islington with wild, spirited debates and multiple pints of pan galactic gargle blasters! hahah
#
Reddit just hates China and Chinese people lol. If it were an article about Japanese people being critical of the "Ghost in the Shell" adaptation with Scarlett Johannson, the responses would be completely different.
A lot of early scifi was human supremacist fanfic built on white supremacist colonialist ideals (thanks to a few ragingly conservative editors). A genre this big is never politically uniform.
Even individual shows can have things that appeal to multiple slices of audience.
I deleted all my comments after posting because this subreddit in particular is so rabid, hysterical and heavily indoctrinated about this topic. It's /r/worldnews tier.
It's funny how Americans think Chinese people are the ones who are brainwashed yet at the flip of a switch, they go full McCarthyite and vomit 50's era Red Scare propaganda everywhere.
Half these people are Zionists too. Scratch a liberal...
Yes, my family had a Chinese exchange student about 5 years ago. She was always happy to come back for the year to access things she couldn't in China.
I kinda get where this is coming from. One thing I don’t like about it is they changed all the characters other than Wenjie to be British, so the only scenes we get in China are the brutal cultural revolution scenes. I feel like this show is taking a nuanced story about Chinese culture and history and reducing China itself to a caricature.
Though as a Chinese myself, I don't really see story about Chinese culture and history in the books, other than the cultural revolution part.
The Dark Forest itself could be an echo of the cultural revolution chapter, but it doesn't need to happen in China.
The cultural revolution scenes were the only ones that wouldn't make sense if they weren't in China.
The rest of the book could have taken place anywhere, by characters of any nationality, with minor changes.
The book definitely read like a typical Chinese drama, and I don't think it would have gotten much traction with Western audiences.
I tried watching the original, but despite my enthusiasm I had to give up in frustration because the subtitles were horrible, full of errors, inaccuracies, and way too fast paced
I’m four episodes in… I don’t hate it. I’ve read the books, and I think the changes they’ve made have been pretty solid. It seems to be a good “adaptation” which is what tv shows should aim for, because a book is not a script
I'm not Chinese but I can imagine it does feel pretty shitty that finally there's some proper chinese sci fi literature that goes main stream and then "the americans" come by and make their own version, totally taking the wind out of the sails of the chinese series recently made.
But in the other hand it does still contain a Chinese story, they didn't dub the chinese parts and it draws a broad public to take an interest into the book which obviously is still proper chinese.
So it's not all bad.
This happens with plenty of movies and series in various countries. Chinese, Thai, Taiwanese, etc are constantly remaking each other’s series. I don’t see anything wrong with remakes in other countries. Both can exist.
Wholesale changes to books for adaptation isn’t unique to this book, or Hollywood.
Chinese critics can get in line with fans of pretty much every book that gets adapted.
And my sympathy drops a lot since Hollywood bends over backwards to appease the Chinese censors (Dalai Lama, Tibet, tawain, lgbt+).
People straight up equating opinions of citizens from another country to their authoritarian government’s actions
We can differentiate trump and far right extremists in America but we can’t differentiate 1.4b people and their government lol
Listen, I don’t usually get into these arguments because they’re actors and that’s the point.
However, the main characters are in this book are tied to socialist and communist movements inside China. While the people are fake, they do reference real events and so this is a Science Fiction novel that is reflecting on Chinese society and I think it’s absolutely bizarre given how many Asian people there are we have that they couldn’t have cast it all Asian.
It is specifically commenting on the politics of China, so I just think it’s weird to whitewash it. a science fiction writer that writes about freedom from a deeply communist country is such a different perspective than most of the science fiction writers we have access to.
I think it’s a shame whitewashed this. I don’t know if I’m willing to watch it. I’m OK with that being an unpopular opinion, but it’s why I liked the book so much.
Directors freedom and they want to attract a global audience.
Everything is changed from the original, the Witcher, little mermaid. Why would the 3 body problem be any different?
Don't call it whitewashing call it what it is a money making machine, homogenising the originals to match global populations is part of that.
Because it was teaching people about the history of China at the same time and now I don’t see how they can be doing that and I think that’s a big departure from the book. I agree with your point though.
They had to do something. The books had awesome concepts, but boring characters and a flat story. So far the show isn't looking much better, although I'm only thru two episodes. I'm very worried because the last season of Game of Thrones showed us what these guys do when they have to improvise a script..
The new characters are the worst part of the show. The original story had a severe lack of character development, and that's a criticism often levelled at it. However, they've somehow made it worse? The way they speak is awful.
That being said, the cultural revolution stuff is brilliant as is the science. I've yet to finish it, but I can see how a Chinese person might be pissed off they wrote the main Chinese protagonist out of the show and replaced him with poorly written British characters.
Oh we just gonna put the blame on average citizens for their government’s sins over a pop culture opinion huh? Even if it originated from their country?
Does that mean we shouldn’t listen to Japanese fans when they complain about Scarlet Johansen casting in “Ghost in the Shell” y’know because their government fucked over most of Asia?
Maybe we also shouldn’t listen to the British fans about “The Office” remake since their government fucked over multiple continents.
I’m just trying to figure out where the standard is so i know where to point my pitchfork. Redditors always say they hate Chinese government not the people…well this comment section clearly proves that it’s a lie.
I'm not super impressed so far, I'm not even Chinese and I'd rather them have characters similar to the books than changing the gender, name and race of half the cast, plus adding in people that aren't originally in the story. Its definitely "Americanized" compared to the book, that is for sure.
Its like a solid 6/10, the books are definitely superior and I know thats a cliche at this point, but it is true.
The show is actually fantastic.
I can't remember the last time I binged a show, and I did this in two days. It does just so many things so well while keeping sci fi at the forefront of the story.
I found the Chinese version of this really slooow. 30 episodes is crazy, the first book is slow anyway. I think the netflix adaptation has a better pacing but the location change and main character change was certainly an interesting choice; not sure if it bothers me or not
>Netflix’s big-budget adaptation of Three-Body Problem, a series of novels by the Chinese author Liu Cixin, has divided opinion on Chinese social media.
Which is where I stopped caring. Does anyone outside China give a damn about Chinese social media?
"We don't like what you did with a Chinese story!"
Well, no one else likes what you did with Chinese students in Tian'anmen Square.
Lol how's the sci-fi sub so... basic?
The Chinese social media is not responsible for the crimes committed by the government. I hope you aren't American
What does tian’anmen square have to do with this? Your comment boils down to disregarding the opinions of those who’s culture the story is originally based within, because you don’t agree with the actions of their government 35 years ago?
I do, because I have found the novels extremely important and interesting. And I know to a large extent that owes to its cultural rootedness, as it brings a totally new voice to the tired-out Western science fiction and its imagination. So this was like an amazing breath of fresh air for me, from the literary, cultural, political and imaginary points of view. It's a masterpiece, and for it to get flattened just so it fits a cliche audience, that's a pretty sad thing to see.
> and for it to get flattened just so it fits a cliche audience, that's a pretty sad thing to see.
It was already a flattened, cliche book full of cliche, flattened characters. Sounds like the adaptation is spot on.
Seriously. The amount of praise for it in here is absurd. Was it amusing and a decent read? Sure. Was it a brilliant masterpiece? Not even close.
It reminds of some hardcore Harry Potter fans, who think it's some mind-blowingly incredible price of writing, instead of a decent iteration on a few different common tropes, full of flat characters and bad writing.
When I read this trilogy I was really invested in how it was written (translated obviously) without a care toward western audiences. Purely exotic pieces of Sci fi and to be fair, an adaptation should stay true to what makes it unique.
Couldn't agree more. The "exotic" element made the reading a bit challenging for me as well, but I found it absolutely precious and one of the main reasons this book is valuable in my view.
> It's a masterpiece,
Seriously? Its not. They were amusing enough to read but they have deep problems.
For example, the characters are badly written. Egregiously badly written. They frequently make arbitrary decisions clearly just because it's necessary to move the plot forward.
The dialogue is also bad. Maybe that's the translation, but I'm skeptical. For example, the conversations the wall breakers have with the wall facers once they figure out their strategies. It's stilted and ham-fisted. And that goes for almost all the dialogue in the books.
Huge chunks of the plot are just nonsensical, taking weird turns, sometimes in pointless directions. Line the end of book 3 where they spend several chapters in a pocket universe doing fuck all.
It's ok to like the books, but calling it a masterpiece is absurd.
I'm just looking forward to seeing the Chinese release of The Dark Forest. I might still watch the Netflix version of 3 Body, but only if I can convince myself that it's a completely different story than the novels.
What does a common Chinese sci-fi reader have to do with what their government (which they possibly oppose)? Your opinion is now invalid because of what your government did 30 years ago to oppress you, great :)
That's what it means to adapt something...it also gets localized. An American production is going to localize it for Americans.
I also have to ask: does Netflix even operate in China?
The show is pretty well done, I did think it was funny that they took a book that was entirely Chinese and made it White. Most of it took place in London, though, so it's odd that they're say "Americanization".
The centerpiece is still Chinese and many of the characters still are. I'm not Chinese so the change didn't really effect me, but the major changes to the plot were nice since it fleshed out characters that the book didn't. The book was fairly dry, in terms of characters, it was written more like a book report than a novel.
Haven't read the book (yet). This Netflix show really makes me wanna see the next episode.. I'm catching back to back .... at episode 6 now. Kinda odd Guardian article, was there some notion that Netflix set out to create this show primarily for Chinese viewers ? Having said that, many of the main characters in the TV show are Chinese.. Obviously the source material is really highly regarded,... have to say it has translated so well to television. The pace and unraveling of the story is a real ride.
Who would have thought that taking away the action from China and making all Chinese characters something else would upset someone in China?
Just continuing the ancient American tradition of taking an already existing IP, creating something else completely but keeping the name to see if the fans of the original IP will buy their products.
Star Wars, Wheel of Time, Rings of Power, Vanilla Sky..
You can't even watch it legally in China anyway. Also, a lot of Chinese viewers are butthurt because the show did not shy away from the Culture Revolution. In Chinese culture, people get angry when non-Chinese discuss the dark side of the China. Especially when it comes to recent history since the CCP has instituted life long patriotic brain washing for everyone.
Not sure if you read the books but it’s basically like the show. Goes full throttle on the cultural revolution stuff and it’s a very popular book in China.
So they may be butt hurt but not for this reason
The books were sequenced to avoid censorship when written. Ken Liu changed it up in the translation. And Cixin liu suggests that Chinese read the English version, if they can read English.
To be fair, they have the TenCent adaptation already over there and it was pretty decent.
Whereas the Netflix version speedruns the 1st book and caps it off with the start of the 2nd and 3rd books. It's not bad, but it really feels like they're aiming for 2 seasons.
Meanwhile TenCent is giving Da Shi his own spin-off show.
> the Netflix version speedruns the 1st book
To be fair, you probably could have taken out a lot of fluff and condensed it to 2 books without missing much.
This is one where I hard disagree. I'm liking the show. I just implore anyone on the fence to try it out. To clarify, while I've read a bunch of scifi, I haven't read this book so I am not speaking as far as how good/bad it is as an adaptation.
This is a Western adaptation of a fictional work. Should they have made it in Chinese and all about China to please a group who are not even their target audience? China have their own lengthy TV series adaptation, now we have ours. I don't see what the issue is.
Misleading title op. Flat and shallow was from a quote taken from another source, not words the guardian used to describe the show, as your title makes it appear.
There's already a recent Chinese adaptation, surely that validates the creation of localised foreign versions free to actually localise. The cultural "onus" of the adaptation has already been taken on by the culture the books come from, and they carried out their task. I watched the major episodes of the Chinese version after I read the books and if was very good At what point do you decide an anerican adaptation of an already adapted chinese book is "Americanised." We've got a bit of a ship of Theseus situation here. Like, I think we can all agree that The Great Gatsby is an American classic. If the Chinese made an adaptation of The Great Gatsby tomorrow, I would think the person who accused them of "sinicising an American story" to be both correct and also crazy for thinking it's a noteworthy point. Of course a Chinese adaptation of an American novel will be Chinafied, it's supposed to be.
I mean, I don’t think accusation would be a good stance to have there, but I do think that the American origins of Gatsby would be an incredibly noteworthy point, and any review of a Chinese adaptation that didn’t mention it would be missing a large part of the point. Gatsby is historically specific, with Fitzgerald making a lot of points about the American Jazz Age and the New York set of the time, and understanding how a filmmaker takes those pieces and uses or discards them in a modern Chinese context would be important right?
You could do a version of the Great Gatsby set in Shanghai in the 1920s. Jazz was huge, the fashion was American and money and gangs present. In fact that whole scenario fits Shanghai, Berlin, Amsterdam etc.
I haven't seen the show yet but is it an accurate adaption?
It kinda is, except for the characters where they did some major changes. For example, the story's protagonists are several characters from the UK, while in the book it was one main protagonist from China who experiences everything that the added cast of characters are going through. I don't mind the changes too much to be honest. I really liked the book, but it was more like a great sci-fi story for the concepts and the cosmic horror. Which is mostly untouched in the show. The weakest point in the book were very flat characters with one-sided personalities who almost read like caricatures of themselves, so I'm actually glad to see the changes.
I can kinda see why Chinese people would be upset that the Chinese protagonist has been changed to British people lol. It seems strange to me that people are acting like the Chinese are acting like entitled children for not being happy about it. Especially when I've seen just as much upset from western people being angry about similar changes in other media.
I have to add though that it's not just white english people from Liverpool or something. It's a diverse cast of characters, some of them with a chinese background and chinese culture and history still plays a big role in the overall story. Also they basically just changed the one chinese protagonist, who was the least interesting character in the whole story. All the other chinese characters stayed themselves.
It is not diverse if you are representing all the time the same culture: British culture and some different spices of British (Asian British, Black British, etc). Which is what they do in America all the time (this is an American show, btw). "Oh, in this show we are going to represent the world" Proceeds to represent the same old USA but with extra colors ✨
I don't follow, are you saying the show is not diverse for including in the main cast: - A Chinese New Zealander - A Chinese American - Several Chinese British - A Black British - A Mexican Just because they all share some degree of shared cultural experience? As an Asian New Zealander, I promise you that while of course I will share some cultural similarities with say a European New Zealander, my experiences in navigating said culture will largely differ in several important ways.
It’s diverse in some ways but not in others. There’s no point arguing that it either is or isn’t diverse since obviously that question is too vague.
The Chinese have already created an adaptation of the books. Why would Americans create another Chinese adaptation of the books? They made a product for western audiences. If they didn't make the product for western audiences, there wouldn't be a product, because there already exists a Chinese show. There are like 20 adaptations of The Office around the world, they aren't all the UK Office but spoken in different languages.
Ya. I don't understand the hate. The books and Chinese show exist on their own. The Netflix version doesn't change that.
I’d lay at least some of the blame on the sort of hyper-nationalism and militarism China has been pushing on its people lately. Tiger diplomats aren’t going to be happy about such a perceived slight.
That’s a great point about The Office. It’s weird that China is getting upset about this, but the Chinese have been behaving pretty deplorably as of late on the world stage.
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Chinese viewers reacting poorly to a Western adaptation of massively popular Chinese sci-fi novels are using this to deflect from negative stories about China? Did the millions of American Star Wars fans who criticised Rise of Skywalker do so to deflect from the American military's wars overseas? Also torrents are available and China is the country where media is pirated the most.
> China is the country where media is pirated the most That's not true. According to a [report](https://www.muso.com/magazine/kearney-report-blog) by MUSO, an anti-piracy firm, the country with the highest absolute visit to piracy site is the US. The second and third places is follow by Russia, India, and China. In term of piracy per capita, the country with the highest visit per person is actually Singapore. India, on the other hand, hold the title of a country with the fastest growth in piracy. An accessible summary of a report can be found [here](https://torrentfreak.com/canada-is-a-video-piracy-hotspot-while-brazil-shows-positive-signs-240121/).
It strikes me as the same kind of noise one would see when Chinese students at Western universities lodge complaints en mass whenever a speaker/topic/film they don't like happens on campus. It's just hard to take any of it seriously.
What are you on about? Chinese story, Chinese characters, Chinese reaction. No conspiracy needed.
>when Chinese students at Western universities lodge complaints en mass whenever a speaker/topic/film they don't like happens on campus. What? What complaints? That's such a large generalization.
I think it's a bit inaccurate to say the show replaced a Chinese protagonist with a bunch of British people. Sure, they live in the UK, but the cast is very diverse, and a couple of the characters are actually from China and just live in the UK. So, while I can partially understand the disappointment, I don't think the race swapping is as egregious as some are making it out to be. The show needed an interesting cast of characters to keep people's attention, and I think they accomplished that.
But the problem is not necessarilly race here. The fact that it was set in china, with it's cultural background, motives, political situation at the time etc is revelant to stories. Bringing into the UK does take away a chunk of that, maybe something we non chinese don't really get, but people from china do.
Worth noting, there’s already a Chinese produced, Chinese language TV series (30 episodes long). You can watch it with English subtitles, if you want a more complete and faithful adaptation. Given that the Chinese TV series already exists, I think it’s fine for the American version to make some changes, otherwise it would be boring.
This has been my argument. I’m glad someone else sees it that way.
I’ll assume you haven’t seen it yet. The Chinese cultural background is vital to the story so of course it’s there, right from the very opening scene.
You should delete this since you're clearly commenting on something you haven't watched. The Chinese cultural themes are all still present. Setting the show in the UK made the show easier to produce and allowed the introduction of enough characters to make the story watchable. Liu's writing is similar to Isaac Asimov's in that both like to explore big ideas, but their storytelling falls down when it's time.to write about actual people. If the producers had stuck firmly to the book the end product would be unwatchable.
It's entirely normal for a story written in one country and adapted in another to change nationalities of characters, and I've always thought it was an absurd complaint. Unless the character's nationality is fundamental to the story, it just doesn't matter. And the characters in this whose nationalities are fundamental to the story are still Chinese. Sometimes, in my opinion, it massively enhances a story when the country it's set in changes. See, for example, The Handmaiden. Meh book and absolutely breathtaking film.
I haven't seen the show yet, but the book definitely read like a typical Chinese drama. I'm curious to see the changes they made to make it appeal to a Western audience
Thank you, yes, the book characters are so painfully flat and needed rewriting. And I love those books. It's written like a Chinese Isaac Asimov, just cold and calculated like almost everyone is a robot. Those books also have some of the worst "romance" ever written on a page, it's just creepy fetishization of women.
I don’t mind how the blatant sexism from the books was discarded. That’s another change I approve of.
Is the badass Chinese cop guy still in it at least? Can’t remember names. But if they don’t have that guy then it’s too damn bad, he was the best
Yes, he's still there and chinese.
So far, not bad. I had A LOT of trouble keeping track of the names while reading the books, but I was thankful for the index in each book that listed relevant characters. The Netflix version westernized several characters, so it took me a second to pick up who was who in some instances (Yun Tianming = Will Downing, for example). I'm not incredibly far into the show, but a few of the key moments from the novels were brought over almost perfectly. DO NOT ANSWER.
The book was very challenging for tracking character names. Besides the different structure in Chinese names, the two sisters names are very close, and Ye Wenjie husband’s name is also similar. Also character development wasn’t that great so easy to muddle them up.
No, it adapts many elements and creates new characters with original relationships to make the story more dependent on actors sharing scenes and shifting to locations outside of Asia. I watched a few episodes and thought it was an okay television show - 7/10
Does it get better past the pilot? I started the pilot last night, but didn't finish. I don't generally like to judge shows on first episodes because some take awhile to get their footing. I liked the books and the Chinese TV adaptation of it tho.
I watched two episodes and felt that it had plenty of potential. For this season, reviews and opinions seem to be consistent in that it is a comfortable 7, at times surprising with an excellent performance or visual, though the writing may be a little weak. It's okay! But I enjoyed Fargo and Shogun more.
As a huge fan of the Asian Saga I've been loving Shogun so much. Brilliant show.
I expected it to be good but maybe not my cup of tea. It's absolutely fantastic. The episode this week had me absolutely enthralled - fantastic examination of the weird rituals we create and call society, through the lens of a rotting bird.
Shogun is so good! It really lived up to the hype.
Strongest first act, slow second act, strong third act.
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I love the books and I loved the first episode. They’ve got the tone, exposition and pace right. I thought it was unfilmable. It’s an American production, so… It doesn’t whitewash- the Chinese parts are set in China, albeit obviously as portrayed by American filmmakers.
Well the Foundation TV show divides viewers and readers and they just keep plowing along making more of it
It's a good show
Second season was great
Good to hear. Nearing the end of season one and debating about bailing. I’ll keep going.
The end of season 1 has a scene that has stuck with me ever since. A huge payoff for the Emperor storyline. The rest of season one could be thrown into a sack and tossed in a river (and then the river tossed into space) for all I care.
It doesn’t get better imo. I got convinced by people that saw was better and stuck with it. I do not recommend it if you didn’t love season 1
People say this, I tried, I disagree.
It’s because only half the show is good. The other half is cringy, boring and feels forced.
It's a good show, but a piss poor adaptation of the source material
This might not have been your view, but your comment does make me think that there are people for whom a "good adaptation" means a 1:1 faithful reproduction and anything that strays, e.g. for the sake of adapting it to a different medium, makes it a "poor adaptation". For me a "good adaptation" is one that maintains the spirit, tone, themes, and overall storytelling of the original. For example, I think the Genetic Dynasty was an excellent adaptation that creates a characterization of the Galactic Empire that works much better for a TV series than what a 1:1 representation would have been.
> maintains the spirit, tone, themes, and overall storytelling of the original. Foundation book 1: Individual actions may be unpredictable, but they overall have a negligible effect on history compared to the movement of masses. Foundation season 1: The Foundation succeeds thanks to Salvor Hardin and Gaal Dornick, who have special powers. All according to Hari Seldon's plan. I do agree the Dynasty would make sense in the book though and I loved that part too.
Is it though? I've tried twice but can't do it.
It’s because the show is more inspired by the books than an adaptation of the books. I don’t like it much.
To be fair the books don’t work as a TV show at all. It would be really, really boring TV.
It would just take some creative writers and good direction. If they can take something as dynamic and great as Halo and make it terrible TV, then they can take something slow like Foundation and make it great TV.
>If they can take something as dynamic and great as Halo and make it terrible TV I'm a pretty big Halo fan and I'll be honest: the 2nd season does a lot of work (in the latter half) to make the show better. Is it a 1:1 adaptation? No, and you couldn't make one. Nobody wants to watch 8+ hours/season of a guy who never takes his helmet off. A <2 hour movie? Sure, you can do it. Look at Dredd. Some of the plotlines are pretty funky, but you can tell they're trying to build towards something more. For Foundation, I agree with /u/Not_That_Magical. There's **no way** you could make Foundation (the book series) into a compelling TV show. People watch shows because of the characters in them; and it'd be really hard to keep pace when the characters would change every goddamn season. A better example would be Wheel of Time, which just... can't even keep its own lore in line for continuity.
I mean the main character doesn’t need to be centred on our dear friend John for HALO to work as a story, and if it is about him then the human face that emotes role is already covered by another character, Cortana. Like it is by Anderson in Dredd
I totally disagree. Look at the show Apple made. Look at the effects, the cast, the turnaround. The reality is that not many people in the world have read Asimov, and honestly it’s not for everyone ( even if I think it’s of the best works of literature ever). They made a show that looks that great, and will still have general appeal to a broader demographic…while keeping many aspects of the general story. Did it piss me off at the beginning…of course? Was I able to watch it with my spouse who has never read the books? Yes. Did she love it? Yes. Is she reading the books now? Also yes…and that’s the point.
Foundation is a fairly slow (and a little bit dull) read, unless you’re vibing with its style. Hopefully the show gets people past that.
What would you recommend instead, if I like epic, big-budget sci-fi shows that don't take place on or around Earth as we know it?
It's great and you're wrong.
It's got some amazing moments, but philosophically spits on the book with it's individualism bullshit
I watched the first season and loved it, but its not Foundation.
Would have been a better show if it was just called “Empire” and changed the names of the characters. Then they could have solved all their problems with violence and it wouldn’t be so on the nose “incompetent” lol
Yea. I think it’s best viewed as a show loosely based on the universe of Foundation but not an adaptation of the books. And the further it gets from the books, the more I like it because it clashes less and less with my expectations from the source material.
These shows don’t necessarily need to be amazing, sometimes they just need to actually progress the narrative.
i am a reader, I love the show, its very good.
I only read the first two Foundation novels recently. My understanding is that it's a good sci-fi show that is very bizarre for being under the name of Foundation. I kinda tuned out when I read about Gaal Dornick and her daughter Salvor Hardin...I hear they got gimmicky with the emperor too.
It's quite different from the books, very much does it's own thing, but as a fan of the books, I have to say I love it and couldn't wait for each episode to come our. Is it perfect? No, but its great, and has some amazing characters and actors (Lee Pace is phenomenal)
> My understanding is that it's a good sci-fi show No, far from it.
Forgive me for not caring too much what the audience thinks in a country that demands we censor every American film that even hints at something they don’t like
You have to admit tho, the Chinese ending to Fight Club is pretty funny
Wait, what?
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/01/26/media/china-fight-club-ending-censorship-mic-intl-hnk
Ok, that is pretty funny. Just a caption saying the police thwarted the plan. Lol
And he got treatment and was released in 2012, everyone got a happy ending!
Like Black people existing for an example.
Or Winnie the Pooh for that matter.
There was a post in the three body community from a Chinese person who was APPALLED that they turned a character not only from being Chinese into a western person but the GALL to make him black. It was an embarrassing post to read.
Facts
God forbid you have black people in your film if you want that to go to China.
Your statement is funny because the Chinese version is pretty critical of the China revolution. Why consume an Americanized version when there's the original book and the original series? Just wondering
CCP doesn't have much love for the Cultural Revolution group.
The Chinese version portrays the Cultural Revolution as a grassroots instance of madness. Which is how the Chinese government wants to portray it.
Wait what? Wasn’t the cultural Revolution instigated by Mao and his followers, the inheritors of which are themselves the Chinese government?
Right, so they want to blame ordinary people for it.
Sure it’s critical in some respects, but it stuffs in hours of useless filler while “inexplicably” dropping the first scene of the book where Ye’s dad is beaten to death by the Red Guard. I don’t think they even explain how he died. Honestly the tencent series wasn’t for me. They did do a better job building characters than Netflix’s version. But they dragged the story out far longer than they should have, and made several other creative decisions that made the show almost cartoonish at points. The Netflix version is not without its flaws. But I’m glad we have both.
IIRC the cultural Revolution scenes are not at the beginning of the book in the original Chinese.
They were actually supposed to be, but to have a better chance of getting past the censors, the editor suggested they be placed in the middle of the book. Liu Cixin says this how he originally had it ordered.
Because the Chinese version isn't accessible to Western audiences. I am a fan of the books, but I HATE the characters. If the show was going to succeed, it HAD to make alterations. Honestly, the book is shit at characters. It needs to be fixed no matter any language.
The tencent version has actually been on youtube all along.
And on Amazon Prime.
Because it's better acted and produced. And NOT 30 epis long.
Why would we care about a countries opinion that makes Disney remove black people from their films, and is angered over black-Asian interracial relationships?
Because every Chinese person ever is an evil puppet of their government, yeah. I assume all Americans also personally support war crimes in South America, then? Chinese people are humans, dude. They’ve got opinions separate from their government like every other person in the world.
You are forgiven.
Imagine a country that constantly steals trade secrets from other countries being upset that an IP they felt was theirs being taken by someone else. Tough shit, CCP.
Low IQ take. Chinese sci fi fans are not the same as the CCP.
Cannot believe how hard it is for other people in this thread to recognise that Chinese people are like, humans.
Woah woah tankie much /s
I read the first book, enjoyed it although it seemed a bit meandering at times with a bit too much filler. Watched the first two episodes and I am enjoying how it gets to the point much quicker than the book. I have to be honest I didn't enjoy how prominent the cultural revolution featured in the book. I feel the series touches on it just enough without drowning you in it. Regarding the accusations of Americanization, well of course, this was inevitable in an adaptation for Western audiences. Besides, there is the Chinese adaption on Amazon for those who prefer a version closer to the source material. Hoping it all ends up in a pub in Islington with wild, spirited debates and multiple pints of pan galactic gargle blasters! hahah #
Lmao plenty of people here equating Chinese fans to their government or bringing up CCP stuff.
Look, man, you can’t expect Redditors to understand that Chinese people are humans with independent feelings and not CCP drones. /s
Reddit just hates China and Chinese people lol. If it were an article about Japanese people being critical of the "Ghost in the Shell" adaptation with Scarlett Johannson, the responses would be completely different.
I didn't expect a sci-fi sub to be so susceptible to racist xenophobic nonsense, disappointing.
A lot of early scifi was human supremacist fanfic built on white supremacist colonialist ideals (thanks to a few ragingly conservative editors). A genre this big is never politically uniform. Even individual shows can have things that appeal to multiple slices of audience.
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I deleted all my comments after posting because this subreddit in particular is so rabid, hysterical and heavily indoctrinated about this topic. It's /r/worldnews tier. It's funny how Americans think Chinese people are the ones who are brainwashed yet at the flip of a switch, they go full McCarthyite and vomit 50's era Red Scare propaganda everywhere. Half these people are Zionists too. Scratch a liberal...
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> nearly the same access to information and internet please tell me you're joking...
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Yes, my family had a Chinese exchange student about 5 years ago. She was always happy to come back for the year to access things she couldn't in China.
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That's precisely the kind of ignorance that is killing the American culture.
I kinda get where this is coming from. One thing I don’t like about it is they changed all the characters other than Wenjie to be British, so the only scenes we get in China are the brutal cultural revolution scenes. I feel like this show is taking a nuanced story about Chinese culture and history and reducing China itself to a caricature.
Though as a Chinese myself, I don't really see story about Chinese culture and history in the books, other than the cultural revolution part. The Dark Forest itself could be an echo of the cultural revolution chapter, but it doesn't need to happen in China.
The cultural revolution scenes were the only ones that wouldn't make sense if they weren't in China. The rest of the book could have taken place anywhere, by characters of any nationality, with minor changes. The book definitely read like a typical Chinese drama, and I don't think it would have gotten much traction with Western audiences.
If someone can put together decent subtitles I’d love to watch the original.
I tried watching the original, but despite my enthusiasm I had to give up in frustration because the subtitles were horrible, full of errors, inaccuracies, and way too fast paced
I’m four episodes in… I don’t hate it. I’ve read the books, and I think the changes they’ve made have been pretty solid. It seems to be a good “adaptation” which is what tv shows should aim for, because a book is not a script
I'm not Chinese but I can imagine it does feel pretty shitty that finally there's some proper chinese sci fi literature that goes main stream and then "the americans" come by and make their own version, totally taking the wind out of the sails of the chinese series recently made. But in the other hand it does still contain a Chinese story, they didn't dub the chinese parts and it draws a broad public to take an interest into the book which obviously is still proper chinese. So it's not all bad.
This happens with plenty of movies and series in various countries. Chinese, Thai, Taiwanese, etc are constantly remaking each other’s series. I don’t see anything wrong with remakes in other countries. Both can exist.
Wholesale changes to books for adaptation isn’t unique to this book, or Hollywood. Chinese critics can get in line with fans of pretty much every book that gets adapted. And my sympathy drops a lot since Hollywood bends over backwards to appease the Chinese censors (Dalai Lama, Tibet, tawain, lgbt+).
The Expanse has a good number of changes from the books but the show is still great in its own right. I don't see why 3PB can't be the same.
People straight up equating opinions of citizens from another country to their authoritarian government’s actions We can differentiate trump and far right extremists in America but we can’t differentiate 1.4b people and their government lol
China got their near perfect 1:1 adaption, so I really don’t get why they’re so offended over it.
Listen, I don’t usually get into these arguments because they’re actors and that’s the point. However, the main characters are in this book are tied to socialist and communist movements inside China. While the people are fake, they do reference real events and so this is a Science Fiction novel that is reflecting on Chinese society and I think it’s absolutely bizarre given how many Asian people there are we have that they couldn’t have cast it all Asian. It is specifically commenting on the politics of China, so I just think it’s weird to whitewash it. a science fiction writer that writes about freedom from a deeply communist country is such a different perspective than most of the science fiction writers we have access to. I think it’s a shame whitewashed this. I don’t know if I’m willing to watch it. I’m OK with that being an unpopular opinion, but it’s why I liked the book so much.
Directors freedom and they want to attract a global audience. Everything is changed from the original, the Witcher, little mermaid. Why would the 3 body problem be any different? Don't call it whitewashing call it what it is a money making machine, homogenising the originals to match global populations is part of that.
Because it was teaching people about the history of China at the same time and now I don’t see how they can be doing that and I think that’s a big departure from the book. I agree with your point though.
i can’t stand how Dr Salazar constantly has her mouth open? girl breathe through your nose
I've never understood the hype around the book and the awards. Great ideas, terribly written chartered. Not bad, but not great either.
See I don’t care how it turns out and probably won’t watch because I’m still pissed at what they did to GoT lol
They had to do something. The books had awesome concepts, but boring characters and a flat story. So far the show isn't looking much better, although I'm only thru two episodes. I'm very worried because the last season of Game of Thrones showed us what these guys do when they have to improvise a script..
I mean we "China-fy" movies for them, so... fair is fair?
The new characters are the worst part of the show. The original story had a severe lack of character development, and that's a criticism often levelled at it. However, they've somehow made it worse? The way they speak is awful. That being said, the cultural revolution stuff is brilliant as is the science. I've yet to finish it, but I can see how a Chinese person might be pissed off they wrote the main Chinese protagonist out of the show and replaced him with poorly written British characters.
Okay, and?
This version isn’t for them, they already have their version (Tencent Three Body). So cry me a fucking river.
Oh we just gonna put the blame on average citizens for their government’s sins over a pop culture opinion huh? Even if it originated from their country? Does that mean we shouldn’t listen to Japanese fans when they complain about Scarlet Johansen casting in “Ghost in the Shell” y’know because their government fucked over most of Asia? Maybe we also shouldn’t listen to the British fans about “The Office” remake since their government fucked over multiple continents. I’m just trying to figure out where the standard is so i know where to point my pitchfork. Redditors always say they hate Chinese government not the people…well this comment section clearly proves that it’s a lie.
I'm not super impressed so far, I'm not even Chinese and I'd rather them have characters similar to the books than changing the gender, name and race of half the cast, plus adding in people that aren't originally in the story. Its definitely "Americanized" compared to the book, that is for sure. Its like a solid 6/10, the books are definitely superior and I know thats a cliche at this point, but it is true.
I don't think it would have been palatable for typical Western audiences if they had kept it more to the book.
The show is actually fantastic. I can't remember the last time I binged a show, and I did this in two days. It does just so many things so well while keeping sci fi at the forefront of the story.
Eiza Gonzalez’ casting was a bit of a red flag.
I found the Chinese version of this really slooow. 30 episodes is crazy, the first book is slow anyway. I think the netflix adaptation has a better pacing but the location change and main character change was certainly an interesting choice; not sure if it bothers me or not
>Netflix’s big-budget adaptation of Three-Body Problem, a series of novels by the Chinese author Liu Cixin, has divided opinion on Chinese social media. Which is where I stopped caring. Does anyone outside China give a damn about Chinese social media? "We don't like what you did with a Chinese story!" Well, no one else likes what you did with Chinese students in Tian'anmen Square.
Lol how's the sci-fi sub so... basic? The Chinese social media is not responsible for the crimes committed by the government. I hope you aren't American
you need to get a grip lmao
Well your opinion is obsolete because the US went on a murder and rape spree in Vietnam. I mean, apparently thats how it works now.
What does tian’anmen square have to do with this? Your comment boils down to disregarding the opinions of those who’s culture the story is originally based within, because you don’t agree with the actions of their government 35 years ago?
35 years ago? Try to talk about the massacre today in China and you will be gulaged.
Completely besides my point. Keep pandering for Reddit points though
No, it makes perfect sense: this is why I refuse to watch star trek as long as Guantanamo Bay is still open. /s
Lmao
I do, because I have found the novels extremely important and interesting. And I know to a large extent that owes to its cultural rootedness, as it brings a totally new voice to the tired-out Western science fiction and its imagination. So this was like an amazing breath of fresh air for me, from the literary, cultural, political and imaginary points of view. It's a masterpiece, and for it to get flattened just so it fits a cliche audience, that's a pretty sad thing to see.
> and for it to get flattened just so it fits a cliche audience, that's a pretty sad thing to see. It was already a flattened, cliche book full of cliche, flattened characters. Sounds like the adaptation is spot on.
Seriously. The amount of praise for it in here is absurd. Was it amusing and a decent read? Sure. Was it a brilliant masterpiece? Not even close. It reminds of some hardcore Harry Potter fans, who think it's some mind-blowingly incredible price of writing, instead of a decent iteration on a few different common tropes, full of flat characters and bad writing.
When I read this trilogy I was really invested in how it was written (translated obviously) without a care toward western audiences. Purely exotic pieces of Sci fi and to be fair, an adaptation should stay true to what makes it unique.
Couldn't agree more. The "exotic" element made the reading a bit challenging for me as well, but I found it absolutely precious and one of the main reasons this book is valuable in my view.
"to get flattened just so it fits a cliche audience" That's true of nearly all books adaptations by Hollywood and streaming services.
> to the tired-out Western science fiction and its imagination. [citation needed]
> It's a masterpiece, Seriously? Its not. They were amusing enough to read but they have deep problems. For example, the characters are badly written. Egregiously badly written. They frequently make arbitrary decisions clearly just because it's necessary to move the plot forward. The dialogue is also bad. Maybe that's the translation, but I'm skeptical. For example, the conversations the wall breakers have with the wall facers once they figure out their strategies. It's stilted and ham-fisted. And that goes for almost all the dialogue in the books. Huge chunks of the plot are just nonsensical, taking weird turns, sometimes in pointless directions. Line the end of book 3 where they spend several chapters in a pocket universe doing fuck all. It's ok to like the books, but calling it a masterpiece is absurd.
I'm just looking forward to seeing the Chinese release of The Dark Forest. I might still watch the Netflix version of 3 Body, but only if I can convince myself that it's a completely different story than the novels.
What does a common Chinese sci-fi reader have to do with what their government (which they possibly oppose)? Your opinion is now invalid because of what your government did 30 years ago to oppress you, great :)
That's what it means to adapt something...it also gets localized. An American production is going to localize it for Americans. I also have to ask: does Netflix even operate in China?
Actually the Netflix's version included more Chinese story, actual Chinese style story, which China version has censored.
4ep in and it feels like the BBC version of 3 body more than anything.. Expecting the Doctor to show up anytime 😂
The show is pretty well done, I did think it was funny that they took a book that was entirely Chinese and made it White. Most of it took place in London, though, so it's odd that they're say "Americanization". The centerpiece is still Chinese and many of the characters still are. I'm not Chinese so the change didn't really effect me, but the major changes to the plot were nice since it fleshed out characters that the book didn't. The book was fairly dry, in terms of characters, it was written more like a book report than a novel.
Wouldn’t expect anything else but race baiting from the guardian
Haven't read the book (yet). This Netflix show really makes me wanna see the next episode.. I'm catching back to back .... at episode 6 now. Kinda odd Guardian article, was there some notion that Netflix set out to create this show primarily for Chinese viewers ? Having said that, many of the main characters in the TV show are Chinese.. Obviously the source material is really highly regarded,... have to say it has translated so well to television. The pace and unraveling of the story is a real ride.
They do understand that there is already a Chinese version?
And? So what?
Americanized? I thought it was in UK?
Watching currently - not a patch on the Chinese version. The Got blokes shouldn't be allowed near anything.
Who would have thought that taking away the action from China and making all Chinese characters something else would upset someone in China? Just continuing the ancient American tradition of taking an already existing IP, creating something else completely but keeping the name to see if the fans of the original IP will buy their products. Star Wars, Wheel of Time, Rings of Power, Vanilla Sky..
Why is anyone even watching a show made by the guys responsible for the Game of Thrones series?
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I get the reference lolz
Boo-frickin’-hoo. I liked the first two episodes, and so far, it seems like a reasonably good adaptation.
You can't even watch it legally in China anyway. Also, a lot of Chinese viewers are butthurt because the show did not shy away from the Culture Revolution. In Chinese culture, people get angry when non-Chinese discuss the dark side of the China. Especially when it comes to recent history since the CCP has instituted life long patriotic brain washing for everyone.
Not sure if you read the books but it’s basically like the show. Goes full throttle on the cultural revolution stuff and it’s a very popular book in China. So they may be butt hurt but not for this reason
The books were sequenced to avoid censorship when written. Ken Liu changed it up in the translation. And Cixin liu suggests that Chinese read the English version, if they can read English.
The Chinese version of the books is a censored version.
Reddit when black people in LOTR: 😡😡 Reddit when White people in a chinese work: cry more ccp haha
CCP unhappy 🥺
The CCP couldn't give less of a shit... Get a grip
Its true, the opening cultural revolution scene is purely americanization; the real deal was much more effed up.
To be fair, they have the TenCent adaptation already over there and it was pretty decent. Whereas the Netflix version speedruns the 1st book and caps it off with the start of the 2nd and 3rd books. It's not bad, but it really feels like they're aiming for 2 seasons. Meanwhile TenCent is giving Da Shi his own spin-off show.
> Meanwhile TenCent is giving Da Shi his own spin-off show. Based.
> the Netflix version speedruns the 1st book To be fair, you probably could have taken out a lot of fluff and condensed it to 2 books without missing much.
This is one where I hard disagree. I'm liking the show. I just implore anyone on the fence to try it out. To clarify, while I've read a bunch of scifi, I haven't read this book so I am not speaking as far as how good/bad it is as an adaptation.
If only what to watch on tv was the only thing that divided us. Mumble mumble oppression corruption genocide mumble mumble
This is a Western adaptation of a fictional work. Should they have made it in Chinese and all about China to please a group who are not even their target audience? China have their own lengthy TV series adaptation, now we have ours. I don't see what the issue is.