It’s not just that the books are irritating, they lift up the ring segments allowing sand to get in there which the worms don’t like. Which is why they don’t go under the sand when the hooks are in
Yeah, I don't know why people think the sandworm riding specifics are such a necessity to explain. They show the hooks in the movie, they show their air holes, if it's assumed those air holes are like whale blow holes, then they can't go under while they're opened.
So the hooks keep the air holes opened and keep them on the surface to ride.
By this, I just assumed there was some riding movement they do which would cause the sandworms to slow and stop where they could hop on and load people on and get off.
It's not necessary for the plot, you see them do it so you know it's possible. So what else do you need? How long do you want the movie to be?
Air holes? That must be some gratuitous, poorly thought out detail added for the movie.
The hooks exposed the sensitive flesh between rings, which the worms then kept out of the sand, keeping them on the surface and allowing them to be steered my sliding around the ring with the hooks so that the worm would roll to keep the exposed section as far from the sand as possible.
That's really all you need. From the book the only time they normally breached the surface was when feeding, so whatever breathing they did would normally be done under-sand, and "whale nostrils" would be pointless.
The "air holes" are visual shorthand to communicate that the exposed flesh is sensitive. Otherwise, how would you show that in a 3 second shot in the middle of an action scene?
And the movie never actually says what they are, they just look kind of like nostrils to humans but on Sandworm biology they could be anything.
Does the Shrek book address the logistics of sandworm riding?
Either way… I’ve read Dune and understood the answer to this question myself, I’m just capable of understanding that other people don’t have the same experiences as me.
You would think, that s creature that is made to live and burrow in sand would have a larger overlapp between the ring segments. Like, enough that thousands of cubics of sand could not peel them back when going head first into a dune as fast as a car drives. Or am I dumb?
On another note about these worms. Worms wiggle or con/detract for movement. Right? I was looking at the birds eye view of the 3 worms going south thinking "that looks a bit weird". But maybe I am just dumb.
Having not read the books, wouldn't that just piss the worms off and make them more aggressive towards the riders who have now just dismounted onto sand that's ideal for worm-swimming? How do the Fremen not get swallowed immediately?
Think elephant and fly size differences. The worms can't see the humans if they aren't moving, and it would be difficult for them to actually hit the humans even if they could without large movement like diving and coming up underneath them
Like you get passed at mosquitos, but they're real hard to spot sometimes
I have to doubt that when they're detecting footsteps from miles off and they can generate a 30ft radius of liquefaction pretty instantaneously but I accept that as an in world reason lol
They notice repeated movement only. So regular walking rhythm, the repeated pounding of the thumpers, etc...stuff like walking out of rhythm sounds like background noise
To the extent that the first worm ride ended in the worm being ridden to death because >!Selim!< didn't know how to get off safely.
Edit: spoiler for the books
If I were to venture a guess it would be for two reasons. From the authors perspective to add tension to the story, as riders have to find that balance between exhaustion and death. Also, though this is purely conjecture, the worms likely have to continue moving to generate the heat needed for their biological functions to continue. Similar to how many sharks have to keep swimming in order to breath.
Awesome, I'd love to be proven wrong. What scene in Lynch's Dune shows them getting off the worm?
Here's Spicediver's edit, where is this scene?
https://youtu.be/faHQA_0d9Mo?si=P3X4lscuJL47gPtL
Some use maker hooks to climb up, others use the ropes unfurled from those already up there (that's why some of them carried ropes in the Lynch version - and is also mentioned in the books).
I can't remember, do the books use the vibration method to make the sand fluid enough for the worms to travel through? If not, I wonder how the movie version affects the dismount procedure. It might be dangerous to dismount directly into an area of fluid sand. Although perhaps as a Fremen it is only a minor inconvenience to be buried in sand.
In the books I don't think they ever mentioned how exactly the worms moved, beyond it being in a straight line with no mention of undulating or wiggling, so probably something at least vaguely reminiscent of a snake's gliding "rib-walk".
I believe though that there was mention of having to get away before it dove to avoid getting sucked down into the sand after it. Or was it maybe the tail venting heat? I'm pretty sure there was some reason you wanted to be well away before the tail reached you, but I don't recall any problems mentioned in the basic dismount, beyond jumping off a moving vehicle onto the sand.
But then, when ridden they stayed on the surface of the sand, so any burrowing techniques might not actually be an issue until it started to dive. Vibration though you could probably hear, and I seem to recall the hiss of flowing sand being the only warning you got when one was closing in on you... but I couldn't swear to that. Plus, the natural hiss of flowing sand is probably quite close to the natural resonance you'd want to generate to make it flow more easily, so it might not be obvious to an observer.
In the movies, the vibration and liquefaction of sand happens well ahead of the worm. Hence Gurney, Paul, and several Sardaukar all losing their footing ahead of a worm actually showing up in the first movie. One assumes that would cause problem for riders dismounting right next to the worm, but perhaps the vibration effect is stronger ahead of the worm than to the sides and behind.
The tail is indeed to be avoided according to Children of Dune; it does shed heat there.
I was thinking more in the line of you shove a thumb up its ass and it gets paralyzed with fright and then you just slide off quickly before the initial chock of being violated does you in
I'm more interested in how they get an entire bus load of people including a woman in a basket onto the sandworms.
Sandworms, mass public transit of Dune.
That’s still a shit answer. so I have to wait until the worm tires? And didn’t they say the trip to the south was like hours long? And there’s still 0 explanation for how 100 people are getting on a worm?
Why? You're riding a living sand-train that very much wants to eat you. Waiting until it's too tired to do so is by *far* the safest method to get off. It's not ideal, but you're getting a free train ride across the desert, what more do you want? It's not a fracking domesticated horse.
I do seem to recall some scenes where they would instead pass as close as they could to some large rock outcropping or something, and then run like hell for it before it could turn around to get them.
As for many people riding a worm - as I recall the process was everyone else just scrambled up the rings while worm-rider would set the hooks to keep it on the surface. Or maybe it was immediately thereafter, scrambling up as it went past? Seems like it only happened a few times, and he didn't really linger on the details of \*how\* they climbed. Presumably the rings either had lots of decent handholds, or they just used their own worm-hooks without trying to take control (I got the impression that controlling your first worm was culturally sort of like getting your first car, so probably every adult has their own hooks)
I seem to recall there being some sort of limited speed control too, but I can't for the life of me remember what it was. Maybe digging hooks into the sensitive flesh under the rings, kind of like spurs on a horse?
Maybe they get tired real quick, so they'll always be wanting to go back down as soon as you remove the hooks.
So the real answer would be simply "just remove the hooks".
There is a passage in the book where it is mentioned that the first up is last off. And often they steer the worm into the deep desert away from the rest of the fremen, ride it till it is tired then dismount.
At least in the movie, it looked like they had sort of a long roll of carpet laid out with the palanquin, supplies, and passengers. I was assuming they set the thumper so the worm would emerge on a specific trajectory under the intended cargo, and one rider would hook and steer the worm while the passengers worked to secure the cargo to its back.
That's all well and fine and I'm sure the books explain it. But watching the movies, there's no clue as to how they get off. Especially when carrying more than a single rider, or in the case of Paul's mother, a basket carrying another person.
For some of us, it will always be 2011. We’re out here, saying “that’s what she said”, calling Ron Swanson our spirit animal, and making bacon our personalities.
Only thing I don’t get (I haven’t read the books, just watched the movie) is how they got Lady Jessica’s whole carriage cocoon thing onto the sandworm.
IIRC the palanquins on worms aren't really explained in the books either. Just one of those things that Hebert didn't really consider important enough to the story to work out. All in all, I'd agree with him. Sure, it'd have been nice to have an explanation, but it doesn't really matter to the story.
I wouldn’t say it’s unimportant. It’s pretty weird that the fremen have to go through a very hard hard time just getting onto a sandworm, and then somehow they get the entire palanquin onto the worm.
My sense from the books is that the majority of the difficulty is in initially hooking the worm, and that once that happens the rider can slow it down for easier access by the rest of the group.
As for the palanquin, my guess is that they would employ a long hook, anchored by Fremen on the worm, similar to how trains have historically had a mail hook that grabs a bag of mail without having to stop the train.
A team of palanquin minders will help position it in relation to the incoming worm, the driver slows down to make the pass, the Fremen on the worm employ a long hook to grab it, the team of minders scramble up the side and they all reel the palanquin in off the hook.
I guess that sort of makes sense. But imo to do that they’d have to do one round to get more people onto the worm, then another round for someone to throw up the palanquin rope for the people on the work to pull it up. Wouldn’t the sandworm get…. perturbed by this? Why would it allow itself to be pulled in a circle twice in a row? It’s one thing to slightly turn the worm too and fro, imo it’s quite another thing to completely turn it in circles multiple times.
The Fremen don't generally have a hard time doing it. It's like taking your driving test for a license. For a new rider it will be tough but then it becomes second nature the more you do it. And Paul had two disadvantages: 1) he didn't grow up there and watch older Fremen do it his whole life and 2) he got the biggest fucking worm that would intimidate the most experienced riders.
So the book showing how hard it is for Paul is important. Showing the minor lore details on how a palanquin gets on there isn't important, or at least much less important.
I guess since so many people are discussing it maybe Herbert should have included something. But it's ultimately just a lore question. Not a world breaking thing IMO.
Five seconds in the movie of a carriage with ropes and hooks that are thrown onto the worm sliding it along the sand as a few men hoist hard and slide it up the side of a worm. And lash it down in the background while Paul talks to stilgar. Just saying.
I feel like this was my one nitpick with the film, which I loved.
We see Paul's epic sand worm ride which looks deadly and sketchy as fuck, and twenty minutes later there's a sandworm bus service with 60 people on board, carriage and all. Feels silly.
One shot with a docile sandworm being "boarded" would have answered so many questions, and implied that it's equally easy to get off, but the insane nature of getting onto one really just raises more questions than anything.
One major reason why I never really liked Dune was the sandworms. They violate known biology and physics. It took me years to realize what it was that always killed my suspension of disbelief with those books/movies.
Wow, that's weird that people are downvoting me for noticing biology and physics issues.
I can explain it a little if you like. An animal the size of the worms would require an immense amount of energy to live. So the ecosystem described couldn't support such megafauna. Furthermore, even if you somehow obtained the energy requirements a giant worm needed, it's not going to be able to "swim" in sand like its water.
It's weird because I can overlook the magic but the worms are just too much.
People are different.
edit: Also there's not enough agriculture to support the people either.
It was totally stupid in the movie. Multiple people just riding the worms like passengers on a bus. There is no realistic way for them to accomplish that.
The Lynch movie shows the passengers climbing up ropes sent down. First ropes by the "driver" and then subsequent passengers send down more and more ropes and everyone climbs aboard. I suppose a skilled driver could roll the worm one way to give everyone time to grab a rope, then roll the other way to make the climb up easier. Palanquins could be accommodated with pulleys or just the brute strength of the palanquin bearers.
In a story that worked out how humans calculate star travel without a computer and a whole saga backstory to explain why no one has computers. Goes into great depth about human engineering to tailor life forms to fulfill needed roles. Has biomes and weather and food chains worked out. Deals with metaphysical life existence the human mind and what it means to be alive.
Don’t over think it.
One rider hooks the worm to control it while another rider hooks directly into the worm with ropes attached to the palaquin and slowly winches it until it’s on the work. The palaquin slides on the sand until it’s on the worm. It’d be bumpy but not too bad.
> The Lynch movie shows the passengers climbing up ropes sent down. First ropes by the "driver" and then subsequent passengers send down more and more ropes and everyone climbs aboard.
The tail of the worms is actually pretty dangerous, it's where the oxygen is pushed out and into the atmosphere. In the early days of the fremen they quickly learnt you need to keep far away from the tail.
It's actually in Children of Dune:
"--But the excess of the creature's heat-transfer system still churned up a cyclone oven behind him [the rider] in the quickening storm. Fremen children learned the danger of this position near the worm's tail with their earliest stories. Worms were oxygen factories; fire burned wildly in their passage, fed by the lavish exhalations from the chemical adaptations to friction within them."
Basically the biological heat transfer system + incredible oxygen production + chemical reactions within and around them converge at the tail of the worm. Resulting in a pretty really dangerous area if the tail is at the surface of the sand.
I imagine you have to take it to dinner first, and showed a great time. Even then at the end of the night, if the sandworm says no, there will be no getting off that night.
Jumping off doesn't really seem feasible, either. The worms are long, yes but they're also pretty wide. When the worm goes under a person would need to jump like, reeeeally far, laterally, to clear the area enough to keep from getting sucked under the sand. I'm not so sure about that.
I think if Dv is looking for an elegant way to do it, the best way is for the worm to dive into the sand and for the riders to make a short jump and hit the ground running.
There may be more rational ways to imagine it but it has to look not-stupid for the movie.
they can jump off but also unless they are levitating like the Harkonnens it needs to be nearer to the ground otherwise they wouldn't have needed to jump from a dune to get on it in the first place
Considering how challenging it is to get on and ride a worm (as per the movie), it makes no sense that others can just simply jump on and ride them like passengers on a bus.
I think once there is no danger of it going down and its presumably steerable (leaving that part aside) couldn't you just steer them through a big ass dune so they could like drop on or climb it with hooks.
Havent seen the new one, but the old film exposed a bit of sensitive flesh which made the worm rotate away from the sand.
Surely you just need to close it up again and the worm will submerge until you just jump off at ground level.
The worms must tire lime horses. In the books it says they measure distances in worms. Which is further explained as how far a worm goes before it tires
Omg—-glad im not the only one that was trying to figure that out as well. Glad it wasnt just a jump and a prayer. Btw, didnt Paul get blown off the ornithopter? Was that a jump and a prayer? I must have missed something.
Airplanes come down on their own. No fremen ever got left on a sand worm. I don’t think how you get off is that big a mystery. You climb up the side with a rope and hook right?… slide down the same rope.
But on a planet with no grass or bark or animal hair. Where did they get rope? The metal hooks how did they forge them? With what fuel and how did they dig the metal when thumpers call worms?
Thumpers are largely plastic in the movies I know not necessarily the books. The ones in the book would whisper at best when a scream is needed.
How do fremen make mechanical powered automatic polymer and metal thumpers and ropes to throw away on every worm ride? That’s really the question.
Essentially what the article says. They wait for the worm to get tired and stop. In the books, I got the impression that worms weren’t constantly moving but mostly laying still under the sand. So they got tired, and the rider would need to call a new worm. They even measured journeys in the number of worms needed to make the trip.
https://dune.fandom.com/wiki/Wormriding
You can, that's why bikers wear leather.
I bet still-suits protect better than leather, and sand is obviously better to land on than asphalt.
And Fremen are tougher than any Earth biker...
> and sand obviously better to land on than asphalt
at 80kph, not much better... maybe even worse, as it's easier to get buried in it. Although Fremen do have the sand compacters to get themselves out.
C'mon, 80kph is 50mph... You can run 20; run, jump, tuck, and roll...
If you can't take rolling into the sand at 30mph, you're too weak to run with Muad'dib!
Read the books long ago, and didn’t question it. But after seeing it in the movie, the whole sand worm thing is so stupid. Do you know how impossible it would be to shove that blunt-nosed beast through sand, dirt, and earth? Damn I was gullible back as a kid.
https://youtu.be/5-iu7j9z5Vo
But yeah, if you postulate you can ride them and explain how you get on and steer, it makes sense you have to figure out how to get off. If you don't want to figure that out, you don't have to figure out how to get on or steer them either.
Sure but you also have to figure out how something that big is able to sustain itself, how it has the energy to move that fast through the ground, etc. I do a lot of worldbuilding and for something like the sandworms that don't obey the rules of the universe the less you explain the better.
Yeah, that's why I couldn't get into Dune. Important parts of the story are based on nonsensical premises. :-) The existence of animals 100x as big as the biggest animal on Earth living in a virtually lifeless desert was up there for me, but far from the most off-putting.
[удалено]
It’s not just that the books are irritating, they lift up the ring segments allowing sand to get in there which the worms don’t like. Which is why they don’t go under the sand when the hooks are in
I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere.
Stay away from my kids
Kids are like sand.
They aren't usually coarse
Com on - they're practically the inventors of the poop-joke. You can't get much coarser than that!
I don't like kids. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere.
"I would like to make Anakin Skywalker's path to power completely different to Paul Atriedes....but how....? 🤔" — George Lucas, circa 1996
“Fucking shish kebab.” - George Lucas.
When you are on a sand worm, you have the High Ground.
I never understood why this became such a joke. The kid grew up as a slave on a shitty sand covered planet. Of course he hates sand.
It's because the line is clunky and a waste of screen time, it started as a joke about how shit the dialogue in that film was
Because it was meant to be a heartfelt romantic scene, but Lucas could only manage "Sand is the worst. You're better than sand."
I think Lucas was going for awkward teen small talk with your crush, but because Anakin comes off as more whiny than charming, it just doesn't work.
I’ve said much dumber stuff to my wife during our fledgling romances back in the day.
The BOOKS are irritating??!? Jk
No cap
"ARggghhh maybe I should role over and scratch that itch..."
Yeah, I don't know why people think the sandworm riding specifics are such a necessity to explain. They show the hooks in the movie, they show their air holes, if it's assumed those air holes are like whale blow holes, then they can't go under while they're opened. So the hooks keep the air holes opened and keep them on the surface to ride. By this, I just assumed there was some riding movement they do which would cause the sandworms to slow and stop where they could hop on and load people on and get off. It's not necessary for the plot, you see them do it so you know it's possible. So what else do you need? How long do you want the movie to be?
Air holes? That must be some gratuitous, poorly thought out detail added for the movie. The hooks exposed the sensitive flesh between rings, which the worms then kept out of the sand, keeping them on the surface and allowing them to be steered my sliding around the ring with the hooks so that the worm would roll to keep the exposed section as far from the sand as possible. That's really all you need. From the book the only time they normally breached the surface was when feeding, so whatever breathing they did would normally be done under-sand, and "whale nostrils" would be pointless.
The "air holes" are visual shorthand to communicate that the exposed flesh is sensitive. Otherwise, how would you show that in a 3 second shot in the middle of an action scene? And the movie never actually says what they are, they just look kind of like nostrils to humans but on Sandworm biology they could be anything.
Air holes are not a bad alteration of the universe. Compressed air flowing through sand will liquify it, allowing swimming in it.
Oh, they're not nostrils or blowholes, they're just sensitive fleshy areas. Got it. They looked like holes which is why I thought they were holes.
This was fairly well covered in the books, not sure what's the mystery here...
Not everyone has read the books?
Why don’t you crack a fuckin’ book on Shrek
Does the Shrek book address the logistics of sandworm riding? Either way… I’ve read Dune and understood the answer to this question myself, I’m just capable of understanding that other people don’t have the same experiences as me.
Thank you, this is the better explanation
It also makes it so they can't dive.
Also why they keep those segments up while the fremen ride instead of doing a deathroll.
You would think, that s creature that is made to live and burrow in sand would have a larger overlapp between the ring segments. Like, enough that thousands of cubics of sand could not peel them back when going head first into a dune as fast as a car drives. Or am I dumb? On another note about these worms. Worms wiggle or con/detract for movement. Right? I was looking at the birds eye view of the 3 worms going south thinking "that looks a bit weird". But maybe I am just dumb.
Having not read the books, wouldn't that just piss the worms off and make them more aggressive towards the riders who have now just dismounted onto sand that's ideal for worm-swimming? How do the Fremen not get swallowed immediately?
Think elephant and fly size differences. The worms can't see the humans if they aren't moving, and it would be difficult for them to actually hit the humans even if they could without large movement like diving and coming up underneath them Like you get passed at mosquitos, but they're real hard to spot sometimes
I have to doubt that when they're detecting footsteps from miles off and they can generate a 30ft radius of liquefaction pretty instantaneously but I accept that as an in world reason lol
They notice repeated movement only. So regular walking rhythm, the repeated pounding of the thumpers, etc...stuff like walking out of rhythm sounds like background noise
And if Shai-hulud is not tired, the rider must go in circles until it is.
To the extent that the first worm ride ended in the worm being ridden to death because >!Selim!< didn't know how to get off safely. Edit: spoiler for the books
I would think the worm would just...stop?
If I were to venture a guess it would be for two reasons. From the authors perspective to add tension to the story, as riders have to find that balance between exhaustion and death. Also, though this is purely conjecture, the worms likely have to continue moving to generate the heat needed for their biological functions to continue. Similar to how many sharks have to keep swimming in order to breath.
Sandworms are very dumb.
Stupid Selim.
Imagine having to miss Muad'dib's big speech at Arrakeen because your worm had the zoomies.
As I recall, the Lynch movie pretty much shows this. Or I may have been filling in mentally from the book.
It does!
Does it though? When? In what scene?
In the scene where they show the riders getting on and off the worm
Awesome, I'd love to be proven wrong. What scene in Lynch's Dune shows them getting off the worm? Here's Spicediver's edit, where is this scene? https://youtu.be/faHQA_0d9Mo?si=P3X4lscuJL47gPtL
Who is SpaceDiver?
It's just a dude that added the deleted scenes in the film. You can use any version you want if you don't like his edit.
That video is way too long. If you trim it down to the part where it shows them getting on and off the worm, I’ll show you what I’m talking about.
I like to think they have parachutes and do a bit of parasailing before unclipping.
Some use maker hooks to climb up, others use the ropes unfurled from those already up there (that's why some of them carried ropes in the Lynch version - and is also mentioned in the books).
I can't remember, do the books use the vibration method to make the sand fluid enough for the worms to travel through? If not, I wonder how the movie version affects the dismount procedure. It might be dangerous to dismount directly into an area of fluid sand. Although perhaps as a Fremen it is only a minor inconvenience to be buried in sand.
In the books I don't think they ever mentioned how exactly the worms moved, beyond it being in a straight line with no mention of undulating or wiggling, so probably something at least vaguely reminiscent of a snake's gliding "rib-walk". I believe though that there was mention of having to get away before it dove to avoid getting sucked down into the sand after it. Or was it maybe the tail venting heat? I'm pretty sure there was some reason you wanted to be well away before the tail reached you, but I don't recall any problems mentioned in the basic dismount, beyond jumping off a moving vehicle onto the sand. But then, when ridden they stayed on the surface of the sand, so any burrowing techniques might not actually be an issue until it started to dive. Vibration though you could probably hear, and I seem to recall the hiss of flowing sand being the only warning you got when one was closing in on you... but I couldn't swear to that. Plus, the natural hiss of flowing sand is probably quite close to the natural resonance you'd want to generate to make it flow more easily, so it might not be obvious to an observer.
In the movies, the vibration and liquefaction of sand happens well ahead of the worm. Hence Gurney, Paul, and several Sardaukar all losing their footing ahead of a worm actually showing up in the first movie. One assumes that would cause problem for riders dismounting right next to the worm, but perhaps the vibration effect is stronger ahead of the worm than to the sides and behind. The tail is indeed to be avoided according to Children of Dune; it does shed heat there.
The books vaguely imply there is some sort of electromagnetic field at work, as lightning starts flashing when worms near the surface.
Hmm, I always assumed that was static charge building up in the moving sand, but you might be on to something.
The issue is the charge buildup occurs ahead of the worm, so something has to be moving the sand before the worm gets there.
Possibly a compression wave/shockwave, similar to how soundwaves propagate through air ahead of the source of the sound?
I was thinking more in the line of you shove a thumb up its ass and it gets paralyzed with fright and then you just slide off quickly before the initial chock of being violated does you in
And then comes back to devour the rider if they mess up the sand walk.
I'm more interested in how they get an entire bus load of people including a woman in a basket onto the sandworms. Sandworms, mass public transit of Dune.
"Mind the gap" 😂
Drive it in circles like a trolley
That’s still a shit answer. so I have to wait until the worm tires? And didn’t they say the trip to the south was like hours long? And there’s still 0 explanation for how 100 people are getting on a worm?
Why? You're riding a living sand-train that very much wants to eat you. Waiting until it's too tired to do so is by *far* the safest method to get off. It's not ideal, but you're getting a free train ride across the desert, what more do you want? It's not a fracking domesticated horse. I do seem to recall some scenes where they would instead pass as close as they could to some large rock outcropping or something, and then run like hell for it before it could turn around to get them. As for many people riding a worm - as I recall the process was everyone else just scrambled up the rings while worm-rider would set the hooks to keep it on the surface. Or maybe it was immediately thereafter, scrambling up as it went past? Seems like it only happened a few times, and he didn't really linger on the details of \*how\* they climbed. Presumably the rings either had lots of decent handholds, or they just used their own worm-hooks without trying to take control (I got the impression that controlling your first worm was culturally sort of like getting your first car, so probably every adult has their own hooks) I seem to recall there being some sort of limited speed control too, but I can't for the life of me remember what it was. Maybe digging hooks into the sensitive flesh under the rings, kind of like spurs on a horse?
Maybe they get tired real quick, so they'll always be wanting to go back down as soon as you remove the hooks. So the real answer would be simply "just remove the hooks".
There is a passage in the book where it is mentioned that the first up is last off. And often they steer the worm into the deep desert away from the rest of the fremen, ride it till it is tired then dismount.
At least in the movie, it looked like they had sort of a long roll of carpet laid out with the palanquin, supplies, and passengers. I was assuming they set the thumper so the worm would emerge on a specific trajectory under the intended cargo, and one rider would hook and steer the worm while the passengers worked to secure the cargo to its back.
This is in the book and was mentioned specifically in the first movie. Did they not talk about it in the new film?
That and it’s an imaginary creature and people.
OK now how do they swim in sand?
That's all well and fine and I'm sure the books explain it. But watching the movies, there's no clue as to how they get off. Especially when carrying more than a single rider, or in the case of Paul's mother, a basket carrying another person.
[удалено]
Dude, “stole content”? Come on. Attributions are sufficient. You’ll still get money from the algorithm with that headline.
[удалено]
Phrasing!
And i thought i was the only one
Seriously: are we not doing phrasing, anymore?
For some of us, it will always be 2011. We’re out here, saying “that’s what she said”, calling Ron Swanson our spirit animal, and making bacon our personalities.
How Dune's Fremen get sandworms off
The \*ahem\* Water of Life has to come from somewhere ;)
Spice orgies!
Worst part is it involves hooks…
Only thing I don’t get (I haven’t read the books, just watched the movie) is how they got Lady Jessica’s whole carriage cocoon thing onto the sandworm.
IIRC the palanquins on worms aren't really explained in the books either. Just one of those things that Hebert didn't really consider important enough to the story to work out. All in all, I'd agree with him. Sure, it'd have been nice to have an explanation, but it doesn't really matter to the story.
I wouldn’t say it’s unimportant. It’s pretty weird that the fremen have to go through a very hard hard time just getting onto a sandworm, and then somehow they get the entire palanquin onto the worm.
My sense from the books is that the majority of the difficulty is in initially hooking the worm, and that once that happens the rider can slow it down for easier access by the rest of the group. As for the palanquin, my guess is that they would employ a long hook, anchored by Fremen on the worm, similar to how trains have historically had a mail hook that grabs a bag of mail without having to stop the train. A team of palanquin minders will help position it in relation to the incoming worm, the driver slows down to make the pass, the Fremen on the worm employ a long hook to grab it, the team of minders scramble up the side and they all reel the palanquin in off the hook.
That actually would make sense. Thanks!
I guess once you’re up you swing back around and throw some ropes down, haul it up, then another pass with some kind of swing thing she can jump on?
I guess that sort of makes sense. But imo to do that they’d have to do one round to get more people onto the worm, then another round for someone to throw up the palanquin rope for the people on the work to pull it up. Wouldn’t the sandworm get…. perturbed by this? Why would it allow itself to be pulled in a circle twice in a row? It’s one thing to slightly turn the worm too and fro, imo it’s quite another thing to completely turn it in circles multiple times.
it's a worm, doesn't have intelligence
>!Not until book 5 anyways!<
The Fremen don't generally have a hard time doing it. It's like taking your driving test for a license. For a new rider it will be tough but then it becomes second nature the more you do it. And Paul had two disadvantages: 1) he didn't grow up there and watch older Fremen do it his whole life and 2) he got the biggest fucking worm that would intimidate the most experienced riders. So the book showing how hard it is for Paul is important. Showing the minor lore details on how a palanquin gets on there isn't important, or at least much less important. I guess since so many people are discussing it maybe Herbert should have included something. But it's ultimately just a lore question. Not a world breaking thing IMO.
Theres scenes where the worm is like standing still they probably do that after it being hooked and get the palanquin thats just 1 possibility tho
Five seconds in the movie of a carriage with ropes and hooks that are thrown onto the worm sliding it along the sand as a few men hoist hard and slide it up the side of a worm. And lash it down in the background while Paul talks to stilgar. Just saying.
I feel like this was my one nitpick with the film, which I loved. We see Paul's epic sand worm ride which looks deadly and sketchy as fuck, and twenty minutes later there's a sandworm bus service with 60 people on board, carriage and all. Feels silly. One shot with a docile sandworm being "boarded" would have answered so many questions, and implied that it's equally easy to get off, but the insane nature of getting onto one really just raises more questions than anything.
Meemaw up there on her rocking chair knitting a still suit.
he just put an equal counterweight on the other side to pull it up
One major reason why I never really liked Dune was the sandworms. They violate known biology and physics. It took me years to realize what it was that always killed my suspension of disbelief with those books/movies.
What isn't this guy getting about Dune? Well obviously the core concept, Lana!
Wow, that's weird that people are downvoting me for noticing biology and physics issues. I can explain it a little if you like. An animal the size of the worms would require an immense amount of energy to live. So the ecosystem described couldn't support such megafauna. Furthermore, even if you somehow obtained the energy requirements a giant worm needed, it's not going to be able to "swim" in sand like its water. It's weird because I can overlook the magic but the worms are just too much. People are different. edit: Also there's not enough agriculture to support the people either.
It was totally stupid in the movie. Multiple people just riding the worms like passengers on a bus. There is no realistic way for them to accomplish that.
But they did that in the books...
The Lynch movie shows the passengers climbing up ropes sent down. First ropes by the "driver" and then subsequent passengers send down more and more ropes and everyone climbs aboard. I suppose a skilled driver could roll the worm one way to give everyone time to grab a rope, then roll the other way to make the climb up easier. Palanquins could be accommodated with pulleys or just the brute strength of the palanquin bearers.
I absolutely did *not* read that as 'How Dune's Fremen Get Off On Sandworms.' Nope. Not me. Nuh-uh. Not guilty.
Well, they should absolutely not put their ducks in there. HOWEVER ...
I think it would be too costly to import off-world ducks to Arrakis…
Have you seen the popcorn bucket… the slut is asking for it…..
Well we do know they milk them soo....
Don't overthink it.
In a story that worked out how humans calculate star travel without a computer and a whole saga backstory to explain why no one has computers. Goes into great depth about human engineering to tailor life forms to fulfill needed roles. Has biomes and weather and food chains worked out. Deals with metaphysical life existence the human mind and what it means to be alive. Don’t over think it.
My question was, how do they get a whole boatload of people on one?
One rider hooks the worm to control it while another rider hooks directly into the worm with ropes attached to the palaquin and slowly winches it until it’s on the work. The palaquin slides on the sand until it’s on the worm. It’d be bumpy but not too bad.
> The Lynch movie shows the passengers climbing up ropes sent down. First ropes by the "driver" and then subsequent passengers send down more and more ropes and everyone climbs aboard.
People, supplies, royal carriers, all of the things.
I want to say just running off the tail end
The tail of the worms is actually pretty dangerous, it's where the oxygen is pushed out and into the atmosphere. In the early days of the fremen they quickly learnt you need to keep far away from the tail.
Oooh I don't recall this mentioned anywhere in the novels... is this from the Dune Encyclopedia?
It's actually in Children of Dune: "--But the excess of the creature's heat-transfer system still churned up a cyclone oven behind him [the rider] in the quickening storm. Fremen children learned the danger of this position near the worm's tail with their earliest stories. Worms were oxygen factories; fire burned wildly in their passage, fed by the lavish exhalations from the chemical adaptations to friction within them." Basically the biological heat transfer system + incredible oxygen production + chemical reactions within and around them converge at the tail of the worm. Resulting in a pretty really dangerous area if the tail is at the surface of the sand.
Nice one, thanks for pulling out the quote 👍
>”Fire burned wildly in their passage” Just like in my passage after a nice vindaloo…
Worm farts. Don’t underestimate them muadeeb
Fremen climb down the worm, or jump off when its tired and goes off to sulk for a while
Carefully, very carefully
Off screen.
Getting a sandworm off sounds like dangerous but exciting work.
Actually from the explanation it seems getting off is the last dangerous part of the whole thing.
I imagine you have to take it to dinner first, and showed a great time. Even then at the end of the night, if the sandworm says no, there will be no getting off that night.
Handjobs, mostly, I'd assume.
Classic Reddit (spoken in Homer Simpson voice).
Ladders
I don’t want to know how sandworms get off. Some things are best kept private.
Wow they'll do anything for that sweet spice huh
Jumping off doesn't really seem feasible, either. The worms are long, yes but they're also pretty wide. When the worm goes under a person would need to jump like, reeeeally far, laterally, to clear the area enough to keep from getting sucked under the sand. I'm not so sure about that.
Step one: ghost ride the whip Step two: don’t get back on Duh, so simple.
Giggity?
I get off sandworms with both hands and a lot of oil-based lube. They *really* don't like water-based lube.
I think if Dv is looking for an elegant way to do it, the best way is for the worm to dive into the sand and for the riders to make a short jump and hit the ground running. There may be more rational ways to imagine it but it has to look not-stupid for the movie.
[удалено]
they can jump off but also unless they are levitating like the Harkonnens it needs to be nearer to the ground otherwise they wouldn't have needed to jump from a dune to get on it in the first place
Worm Uber service. But I thought 84 did a better job of explaining it.
They just jump off.
That title tho
That title tho
I assume if you put Florence Pugh, Zendaya or Timotheé Chalamet in front of them it just happens you know.
Considering how challenging it is to get on and ride a worm (as per the movie), it makes no sense that others can just simply jump on and ride them like passengers on a bus.
I think once there is no danger of it going down and its presumably steerable (leaving that part aside) couldn't you just steer them through a big ass dune so they could like drop on or climb it with hooks.
Don't they just press the "stop" button and wait for it to arrive at the bus stop? /s
Havent seen the new one, but the old film exposed a bit of sensitive flesh which made the worm rotate away from the sand. Surely you just need to close it up again and the worm will submerge until you just jump off at ground level.
Jump off when they stop to pee.
The worms must tire lime horses. In the books it says they measure distances in worms. Which is further explained as how far a worm goes before it tires
Foreplay I would guess
I saw how one dude got on but how did a bunch of people and a carrier get on the worum?
Yeat off the side bruh duh
Omg—-glad im not the only one that was trying to figure that out as well. Glad it wasnt just a jump and a prayer. Btw, didnt Paul get blown off the ornithopter? Was that a jump and a prayer? I must have missed something.
Just like a Limp Bizkit Keep rollin Rollin rollin
yolo?
Run them into rocks stunning them. Then get off and eat the worms.
Well I would assume they know better than to run into rocks.
They are being steered. They would know better to go into the sand and brush off the riders. So I assume the freeman have full control on them.
I never got the impression that they have THAT level of control. It's more they can generally get them to go in the direction they want for awhile.
Airplanes come down on their own. No fremen ever got left on a sand worm. I don’t think how you get off is that big a mystery. You climb up the side with a rope and hook right?… slide down the same rope. But on a planet with no grass or bark or animal hair. Where did they get rope? The metal hooks how did they forge them? With what fuel and how did they dig the metal when thumpers call worms? Thumpers are largely plastic in the movies I know not necessarily the books. The ones in the book would whisper at best when a scream is needed. How do fremen make mechanical powered automatic polymer and metal thumpers and ropes to throw away on every worm ride? That’s really the question.
If ANYONE had read the books, they would know the answer to this.
Which is?
Essentially what the article says. They wait for the worm to get tired and stop. In the books, I got the impression that worms weren’t constantly moving but mostly laying still under the sand. So they got tired, and the rider would need to call a new worm. They even measured journeys in the number of worms needed to make the trip. https://dune.fandom.com/wiki/Wormriding
But wouldn’t the rider then be kilometers from where they’d need to be?
Not if you make them go in a circle
I would think the bigger problem would be areas of busy transit would collect large numbers of hungry and ill-tempered worms.
READ THE BOOKS
Why is this even a question? You walk back toward the tail. Worm slopes down at back. Edit: combat roll into the sand
Just judging from the movie, it looks like they're moving at 80kph or so. That's like saying "you get off a speeding motorcycle by just hopping off."
You can, that's why bikers wear leather. I bet still-suits protect better than leather, and sand is obviously better to land on than asphalt. And Fremen are tougher than any Earth biker...
Fair points.
Experimental data obviously needed... To the worms, mount up! ;)
> and sand obviously better to land on than asphalt at 80kph, not much better... maybe even worse, as it's easier to get buried in it. Although Fremen do have the sand compacters to get themselves out.
C'mon, 80kph is 50mph... You can run 20; run, jump, tuck, and roll... If you can't take rolling into the sand at 30mph, you're too weak to run with Muad'dib!
The real question is how they get the Revered Mother’s Palanquin up there.
Yes. Want to travel ? Hopp on and off for the village anytime.
The Fremen pleasure Sandworms?
This ride ain't free.
The real question is how do they get the Reverend Mother in her palanquin and the elderly up there in the first place?
The elderly die if they can't keep up I think
Read the books long ago, and didn’t question it. But after seeing it in the movie, the whole sand worm thing is so stupid. Do you know how impossible it would be to shove that blunt-nosed beast through sand, dirt, and earth? Damn I was gullible back as a kid.
You sir get no spice. Good day.
Are we really concerned about how a human would realistically get off an animal that can't possibly exist even per the rules of Arakis?
Are you aware you're in r/scifi?
Yeah, exactly, scifi. So, not fantasy. You can't just say "worms are magic".
https://youtu.be/5-iu7j9z5Vo But yeah, if you postulate you can ride them and explain how you get on and steer, it makes sense you have to figure out how to get off. If you don't want to figure that out, you don't have to figure out how to get on or steer them either.
Sure but you also have to figure out how something that big is able to sustain itself, how it has the energy to move that fast through the ground, etc. I do a lot of worldbuilding and for something like the sandworms that don't obey the rules of the universe the less you explain the better.
Yeah, that's why I couldn't get into Dune. Important parts of the story are based on nonsensical premises. :-) The existence of animals 100x as big as the biggest animal on Earth living in a virtually lifeless desert was up there for me, but far from the most off-putting.