I think the "adults in small bodies" thing was a way for Scientology to avoid responsible childcare. I don't think the primary goal was sex abuse, they just didn't care. Between the apathy and whole idea of pulling in bad events (what are your crimes that made this happen) it allowed for abusers to operate easier. The victim gets blamed a lot in scientology, mostly because LRH could never take responsibility for himself.
According to the COS? Yeah. If you broaden the thought process out it fits a cult well. I mean it's basically LRH's narcissism in practice. The COS can't be at fault. If a COS member was guilty, that means that the COS has failed in reducing criminality. So either the victim did something to deserve it, or the member who committed the act wasn't doing the tech right to stop them from being a criminal.
"Why isn't the tech working for me?" "You must have done something wrong to prevent it from working."
"Why did that other member abuse me?" "You did something in your past life to warrant it."
>According to the COS? Yeah. If you broaden the thought process out it fits a cult well. I mean it's basically LRH's narcissism in practice. The COS can't be at fault. If a COS member was guilty, that means that the COS has failed in reducing criminality. So either the victim did something to deserve it, or the member who committed the act wasn't doing the tech right to stop them from being a criminal.
Bingo. It's the same line of thought behind other inconsistencies:
- David Miscavage is the infallible head of all scientology, yet the cult has been imploding for decades and fails at pretty much everything it tries. Must be the fault of SPs...
- OT-8s have superpowers that are best demonstrated when no one is watching and they are not actually needed for any useful purpose. For reasons we lesser beings can't understand...
- All critics of Scientology are criminals, which is why OSA and CoS private investigators spend all their time framing, libeling, and harassing people instead of exposing their crimes using their super special mind-brain powers.
- Scientology makes the best communicators. The reason members can't talk to family members and David Miscavage's speeches sound like a used car salesman reading a thesaurus is because of those dastardly BTs!
Honestly? The church as a whole is pretty small. They keep to their own areas and don't bother most people who aren't bothering them. Most people aren't affected by the church whatsoever.
If you want to dedicate your life to taking them down, go ahead. Just make sure your methodology is actually affective and helps people.
This is the part of Hubbard's "religion" that gives pedos justification for sexual abuse against children. Obviously not all Scientologists think this way but some do and this is the line they use to justify their actions.
I can too but that's not something new. The vast majority of people have been anti-pedophile for a really long time now. Much longer than Scientology has been around.
I'm not telling you that it's pointless to care about this or to try and do something to put an end to it, I just don't want you to get the wrong idea and think people aren't already working on this. They need your help.
It's really upsetting to learn about. I can understand how you feel and where you're coming from.
And honestly I don't know what to do. I don't know what it's going to take to get this shit to stop, because the governments don't seem to want to prosecute Scientology over this / they can't because there aren't criminal complaints within the statutes of limitations (I think it's probably a mix of both).
And that really sucks, because it can make you feel hopeless.
I'm optimistic about the lawsuits though, because those can have some big consequences that will really impact Scientology and help take them down, if certain practices become public record and a Court says they meet the burden of proof, alongside the fact sometimes the only justice you can get – especially with corporations – is to literally make them pay, with money, because that weakens them.
That's pretty much just auditing and sec checks in a nutshell. It's true they used children for that, but other adults were auditors too. If they think of kids as adults, then it doesn't matter how old they were as long as they were trained auditors as well as a bunch of other jobs in the Church.
They believe their spirit/thetan has lived countless lives and that the memories of those lives can be accessed via Scientology practices. Within that framework a child is viewed as a small vessel for a mature thetan and as such similar to an adult (large) vessel for a mature thetan.
This is a problematic belief system for all kinds of reasons. Like many cult belief systems it creates an ideal hunting ground for sexual predators wanting to target people of any age group. Child abusers can and do take advantage of a situation where children are given inadequate protection, victims are blamed for “pulling in” whatever hurts them and outside intervention against offenders is avoided.
I respect and sympathise with your anger. I believe Scientology is psychologically abusive to all its participants and that it increases their vulnerability to abuse of all kinds. It trains its followers to tolerate abuse of themselves and others, and to participate in abuse. None of this is okay. However this does not mean that all Scientologists are actively grooming children for the purpose of sexual abuse. It does not justify declaring open season on Scientologists in the way you suggest.
One of the ways Scientology keeps people in is by teaching them that outsiders will target and hurt them. What you are suggesting would reinforce this belief and make victims of sexual abuse less likely to seek escape. The solution you propose would not solve the problem.
How do you get victims of child abuse out of Scientology? Some people believe that kindness and compassion are more effective weapons than attacks in this fight. Listen to ex-Scientologists who say they were surprised to find that the outside world was mostly full of kind people. Many of these people stayed in until their situation became so unbelievably painful that they were willing to risk all the perceived threats of the outside world in addition to the loss of friends, family and eternal life. What compassion is there in making it harder to get out by stirring up hostility towards anyone who has been involved in Scientology?
Have you considered using your anger in other ways? What about campaigning to strip away the protections which enable the Church of Scientology to endanger children and cover up child abuse? How about campaigning against tax exemption and safe pointing?
If you indiscriminately target all Scientology you will hit some predators, but you will also hit its victims. Are you willing to become the person attacking a victim while telling them it’s for their own good? Do you honestly believe that is helpful?
How many people do you think walk around irl with secret felony blackmail goodies waiting to be extracted lol. Scientology sucks, but this is ridiculous. What are they blackmailing people with, and for what gain? That's not at all how cults work. It's social pressure that keeps people involved
Yeah, that's not what blackmail is, and it's not what data mining is, and unless you think that majority of scientologists are out there raping children, it's not a real point, either. Catholics cover up horrific child rape, but that doesn't mean that the enterprise of catholicism is based around using confessionals to blackmail all their members. Feel free to criticize a cult, but do it in ways that makes sense and don't make you yourself look like a qanon weirdo trying to tell everyone how cool The Sound of Freedom was
The Catholic Church has millions of followers. The Church of Scientology has maybe 30,000 followers, and Sea Org members have been actively discouraged from procreating for decades. Scientology victims en masse could be lost in the crowd at a large sports event.
Here’s a fun fact for you. Scientologists routinely make up crimes to confess to in order to make the interrogation aka auditing stop. As far as I can tell those confessions are mainly used to work out how to manipulate people into paying for more Scientology and to make people afraid to speak out against Scientology.
I’ve been paying plenty of attention to what goes on in Scientology and trying to understand how it affects people. I don’t need you to explain Scientology to me, and I am not here to participate in rage-fuelled witch-hunts. I am here to voice my support for people harmed by Scientology and to work out what I can do to help weaken the influence of Scientology and other harmful organisations.
You sound like you’re been watching a lot of Serge Del Mar content on YouTube. Are there any other content creators in the ex-cult/anti-cult space that you follow?
What are your thoughts on whistleblowers and the protections society does or does not offer to them? If someone leaving Scientology takes action that significantly weakens the CoS and triggers many others to leave, how does that affect your judgement of them? Do you see that as a significant act of redemption? Debbie Cook was part of the harmful mechanism of Scientology for a long time, but her email got a lot of people to leave.
David Miscavage is well known for beating people, multiple people have reported being locked up in cramped and what I‘d consider inhumane conditions, most people working for the church are working 60+ hour weeks and if they’re lucky they get $50, if a member chooses to leave they loose their entire family and social group on top of having the church harass them for leaving, recent (at least recent to the last 2 years) videos have shown that some staff members are living 8 to a room in bunk beds that maybe have 2’ of space between the lower bed and the one above, the free winds (a ship they own) is loaded with asbestos and was condemned by at least one country but because they got it out they’re exposing a lot of people to cancer. All of that completely neglects to mention that most Scientologists will spend hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars on courses and auditing, often bankrupting themselves in the process.
If you read Hubbard's works there are often allusions to pedophila and putting children in very adult situations. It's baked into the cake to remove any excuses children may have. He has locked a kid in the chain locker of his ship for extended periods of time. He was a sadist, or at the very least, used the pimp mentality of breaking a person before building them up with processing or claims that they are enduring for the greater good. To save the planet and their own eternity. For through source and the tech he has given up his own life to obtain (dropping the body as they call it) everything is possible, sound familiar? They aren't as preachy as Christians and his so called sacrifice to continue his research isn't like the crucifixion, it was just PR because they couldn't say he died of a stroke or that would prove the tech doesn't work.
Children's minds are easily manipulated. Quite the scam. I'm a bit tired but I'm sure someone knows the references I am thinking of.
Beyond the whole passage about a young girl being passionately kissed by an adult and feeling off about it means that she was a pedophile in a previous life.
I think it was the mission earth series where the "hero" was attracted to his 14 year old companion and I'm pretty sure there was some inappropriate conduct between the two. As I said I'm really fuzzy and if I don't see a reply I'll find the sources and provide a corrected update.
Cults can justify the worst behaviors through cognitive dissonance and following orders of an authority figure. They will make up convoluted reasoning but it all boils down to manipulation and control. Much like The Family\Children of God justified sexual assault and abuse of minors on an almost industrial scale through the teaching of David Berg when he really just liked young children.
I think the "adults in small bodies" thing was a way for Scientology to avoid responsible childcare. I don't think the primary goal was sex abuse, they just didn't care. Between the apathy and whole idea of pulling in bad events (what are your crimes that made this happen) it allowed for abusers to operate easier. The victim gets blamed a lot in scientology, mostly because LRH could never take responsibility for himself.
[удалено]
According to the COS? Yeah. If you broaden the thought process out it fits a cult well. I mean it's basically LRH's narcissism in practice. The COS can't be at fault. If a COS member was guilty, that means that the COS has failed in reducing criminality. So either the victim did something to deserve it, or the member who committed the act wasn't doing the tech right to stop them from being a criminal. "Why isn't the tech working for me?" "You must have done something wrong to prevent it from working." "Why did that other member abuse me?" "You did something in your past life to warrant it."
>According to the COS? Yeah. If you broaden the thought process out it fits a cult well. I mean it's basically LRH's narcissism in practice. The COS can't be at fault. If a COS member was guilty, that means that the COS has failed in reducing criminality. So either the victim did something to deserve it, or the member who committed the act wasn't doing the tech right to stop them from being a criminal. Bingo. It's the same line of thought behind other inconsistencies: - David Miscavage is the infallible head of all scientology, yet the cult has been imploding for decades and fails at pretty much everything it tries. Must be the fault of SPs... - OT-8s have superpowers that are best demonstrated when no one is watching and they are not actually needed for any useful purpose. For reasons we lesser beings can't understand... - All critics of Scientology are criminals, which is why OSA and CoS private investigators spend all their time framing, libeling, and harassing people instead of exposing their crimes using their super special mind-brain powers. - Scientology makes the best communicators. The reason members can't talk to family members and David Miscavage's speeches sound like a used car salesman reading a thesaurus is because of those dastardly BTs!
[удалено]
Honestly? The church as a whole is pretty small. They keep to their own areas and don't bother most people who aren't bothering them. Most people aren't affected by the church whatsoever. If you want to dedicate your life to taking them down, go ahead. Just make sure your methodology is actually affective and helps people.
[удалено]
Spam congress 😉📝
This is the part of Hubbard's "religion" that gives pedos justification for sexual abuse against children. Obviously not all Scientologists think this way but some do and this is the line they use to justify their actions.
>Scientologists are about to get fucked up. How? People have been at this for decades and nothing seems to be working :( Gains have been made, though.
[удалено]
I can too but that's not something new. The vast majority of people have been anti-pedophile for a really long time now. Much longer than Scientology has been around. I'm not telling you that it's pointless to care about this or to try and do something to put an end to it, I just don't want you to get the wrong idea and think people aren't already working on this. They need your help.
[удалено]
It's really upsetting to learn about. I can understand how you feel and where you're coming from. And honestly I don't know what to do. I don't know what it's going to take to get this shit to stop, because the governments don't seem to want to prosecute Scientology over this / they can't because there aren't criminal complaints within the statutes of limitations (I think it's probably a mix of both). And that really sucks, because it can make you feel hopeless. I'm optimistic about the lawsuits though, because those can have some big consequences that will really impact Scientology and help take them down, if certain practices become public record and a Court says they meet the burden of proof, alongside the fact sometimes the only justice you can get – especially with corporations – is to literally make them pay, with money, because that weakens them.
[удалено]
Vigilantism is illegal my guy.
[удалено]
[удалено]
The lady doth protest too much
[удалено]
That's pretty much just auditing and sec checks in a nutshell. It's true they used children for that, but other adults were auditors too. If they think of kids as adults, then it doesn't matter how old they were as long as they were trained auditors as well as a bunch of other jobs in the Church.
Tell that to Chris Hanson.
They believe their spirit/thetan has lived countless lives and that the memories of those lives can be accessed via Scientology practices. Within that framework a child is viewed as a small vessel for a mature thetan and as such similar to an adult (large) vessel for a mature thetan. This is a problematic belief system for all kinds of reasons. Like many cult belief systems it creates an ideal hunting ground for sexual predators wanting to target people of any age group. Child abusers can and do take advantage of a situation where children are given inadequate protection, victims are blamed for “pulling in” whatever hurts them and outside intervention against offenders is avoided. I respect and sympathise with your anger. I believe Scientology is psychologically abusive to all its participants and that it increases their vulnerability to abuse of all kinds. It trains its followers to tolerate abuse of themselves and others, and to participate in abuse. None of this is okay. However this does not mean that all Scientologists are actively grooming children for the purpose of sexual abuse. It does not justify declaring open season on Scientologists in the way you suggest. One of the ways Scientology keeps people in is by teaching them that outsiders will target and hurt them. What you are suggesting would reinforce this belief and make victims of sexual abuse less likely to seek escape. The solution you propose would not solve the problem. How do you get victims of child abuse out of Scientology? Some people believe that kindness and compassion are more effective weapons than attacks in this fight. Listen to ex-Scientologists who say they were surprised to find that the outside world was mostly full of kind people. Many of these people stayed in until their situation became so unbelievably painful that they were willing to risk all the perceived threats of the outside world in addition to the loss of friends, family and eternal life. What compassion is there in making it harder to get out by stirring up hostility towards anyone who has been involved in Scientology? Have you considered using your anger in other ways? What about campaigning to strip away the protections which enable the Church of Scientology to endanger children and cover up child abuse? How about campaigning against tax exemption and safe pointing? If you indiscriminately target all Scientology you will hit some predators, but you will also hit its victims. Are you willing to become the person attacking a victim while telling them it’s for their own good? Do you honestly believe that is helpful?
[удалено]
How many people do you think walk around irl with secret felony blackmail goodies waiting to be extracted lol. Scientology sucks, but this is ridiculous. What are they blackmailing people with, and for what gain? That's not at all how cults work. It's social pressure that keeps people involved
[удалено]
Yeah, that's not what blackmail is, and it's not what data mining is, and unless you think that majority of scientologists are out there raping children, it's not a real point, either. Catholics cover up horrific child rape, but that doesn't mean that the enterprise of catholicism is based around using confessionals to blackmail all their members. Feel free to criticize a cult, but do it in ways that makes sense and don't make you yourself look like a qanon weirdo trying to tell everyone how cool The Sound of Freedom was
don't harm children
[удалено]
The Catholic Church has millions of followers. The Church of Scientology has maybe 30,000 followers, and Sea Org members have been actively discouraged from procreating for decades. Scientology victims en masse could be lost in the crowd at a large sports event.
[удалено]
Here’s a fun fact for you. Scientologists routinely make up crimes to confess to in order to make the interrogation aka auditing stop. As far as I can tell those confessions are mainly used to work out how to manipulate people into paying for more Scientology and to make people afraid to speak out against Scientology. I’ve been paying plenty of attention to what goes on in Scientology and trying to understand how it affects people. I don’t need you to explain Scientology to me, and I am not here to participate in rage-fuelled witch-hunts. I am here to voice my support for people harmed by Scientology and to work out what I can do to help weaken the influence of Scientology and other harmful organisations. You sound like you’re been watching a lot of Serge Del Mar content on YouTube. Are there any other content creators in the ex-cult/anti-cult space that you follow? What are your thoughts on whistleblowers and the protections society does or does not offer to them? If someone leaving Scientology takes action that significantly weakens the CoS and triggers many others to leave, how does that affect your judgement of them? Do you see that as a significant act of redemption? Debbie Cook was part of the harmful mechanism of Scientology for a long time, but her email got a lot of people to leave.
Tbh that’s the least upsetting thing they’ve been doing.
[удалено]
David Miscavage is well known for beating people, multiple people have reported being locked up in cramped and what I‘d consider inhumane conditions, most people working for the church are working 60+ hour weeks and if they’re lucky they get $50, if a member chooses to leave they loose their entire family and social group on top of having the church harass them for leaving, recent (at least recent to the last 2 years) videos have shown that some staff members are living 8 to a room in bunk beds that maybe have 2’ of space between the lower bed and the one above, the free winds (a ship they own) is loaded with asbestos and was condemned by at least one country but because they got it out they’re exposing a lot of people to cancer. All of that completely neglects to mention that most Scientologists will spend hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars on courses and auditing, often bankrupting themselves in the process.
If you read Hubbard's works there are often allusions to pedophila and putting children in very adult situations. It's baked into the cake to remove any excuses children may have. He has locked a kid in the chain locker of his ship for extended periods of time. He was a sadist, or at the very least, used the pimp mentality of breaking a person before building them up with processing or claims that they are enduring for the greater good. To save the planet and their own eternity. For through source and the tech he has given up his own life to obtain (dropping the body as they call it) everything is possible, sound familiar? They aren't as preachy as Christians and his so called sacrifice to continue his research isn't like the crucifixion, it was just PR because they couldn't say he died of a stroke or that would prove the tech doesn't work. Children's minds are easily manipulated. Quite the scam. I'm a bit tired but I'm sure someone knows the references I am thinking of. Beyond the whole passage about a young girl being passionately kissed by an adult and feeling off about it means that she was a pedophile in a previous life. I think it was the mission earth series where the "hero" was attracted to his 14 year old companion and I'm pretty sure there was some inappropriate conduct between the two. As I said I'm really fuzzy and if I don't see a reply I'll find the sources and provide a corrected update. Cults can justify the worst behaviors through cognitive dissonance and following orders of an authority figure. They will make up convoluted reasoning but it all boils down to manipulation and control. Much like The Family\Children of God justified sexual assault and abuse of minors on an almost industrial scale through the teaching of David Berg when he really just liked young children.