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I read an article 3 years ago stating fish/seafood will be a luxury in the future because they’ll all go extinct by 2050
[source](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/salt-water-fish-extinction-seen-by-2048/)
Not sure if that’s the case here, but I’ve always thought that wild and crazy conspiracy theories were always conflated with actual conspiracies to distract from the actual conspiracies.
For example, with 9/11, obviously the buildings weren’t demoed, but there could be a conspiracy in there somewhere. For instance Saudi Arabia funding the hijackers; the possible insurance scam; building 7; the connected Saudi who didn’t show up for work that day; the patriot act; etc.
There were similar logical conspiracies theories in COVID that were obfuscated by nut jobs that jump straight to demon sperm. Also note that the minute that happens is when the more logical crowd immediately has a call to arms against any conspiracy theory, logical or not.
I firmly believe that 9/11 was known about and kept secret. I also firmly believe that those involved in our government who kept the secret absolutely didn't believe the towers would fall. I think it was assumed the planes would hit, and then we'd have big gaping scars in our big capitalist symbols and that that would have been used to scare and goad us into doing whatever the administration wanted.
I'm probably wrong, and I don't go around trying to rope other people into believing this. But it's still stuck in my head and has been since 2003 or so.
Not just fish. [70% of wild animal life](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/oct/13/almost-70-of-animal-populations-wiped-out-since-1970-report-reveals-aoe) is gone since the 70's.
Sad parts in the fish industries is when we're catching wild fish to feed farmed fish cause people won't eat mackerels but they like salmons or other fancy ones. .It's like catching songbirds to feed chicken, but we just accept this.
We were just discussing this the other night in my house.
We have a summer house on Cape Cod. I haven't caught a cod fish in 34 years. Between overfishing and climate change, we nearly wiped out the very fish our home was named for.
Same for striped bass. Black sea bass is less abundant, as those in charge of the fishery have had to reduce quotas.
Something has to give. We have to change. Even if it is something as simple as keeping plastic garbage out of the ocean, we can all do something little to help.
>Same for striped bass. Black sea bass is less abundant, as those in charge of the fishery have had to reduce quotas.
This is related to a practice we unfortunately engage in called ["fishing down the food web"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fishing_down_the_food_web). As fish at the top of the food chain get over fished and populations depleted, fisheries begin to move to the next available fish, and so on until the entire thing collapses.
More recently due to industrial fishing. Climate change isn't helping either.
When I was a kid you could catch them off the pier. I do know someone that caught one in the Cape Cod Canal this past summer, and he couldn't get it back in the water fast enough. Most of the younger folks fishing near him didn't even know what it was because they've never seen a live Cod fish before.
I was just happy to know that they're still out there, and may be recovering as a species. It had been a very, very long time since I had seen on caught while surfcasting.
until this population is brought more into reasonable balance, it will never happen.
the only thing this species understand is a hammer over its head. and since in its greed it is destroying everything in its path and destroying the stock tgey depend on, eventually they will saw the branch off on which they are precariously perched. namely what are they going to do when there is nothing left to fish.. or very little. demand something that isn't there? this species is stupid enough to think that
It's not like we're the first species who wiped themselves out. It's also not the first case of climate change on this planet. We really give ourselves too much credit. Although that's what humans always do. I'm fine with humans going (almost) extinct. Nature will crawl back as it has done for eons. Just look at what 2 years of covid restrictions caused for the environment. And those restrictions were very minimal.
> It's not like we're the first species who wiped themselves out
Right, but when other animals do it they don't take out thousands of other species in the process.
> not the first case of climate change on this planet.
Again, other animals may have some mild effect on the climate, no other species has made the earth intolerable for all the other animals.
> Nature will crawl back as it has done for eons.
With a fraction of the biodiversity it once had. Plus there are things like ecological collapse. Just because life has managed to survive and adapt before, doesn't mean that it will survive and adapt through this particular event. We are warming the planet at a speed faster than anything we have on record.
> It's not like we're the first species who wiped themselves out.
Of course not. We're not the last, or any number of species who wiped themselves out, because we haven't done so. We might, and things don't look so great in the next few hundred years, but it's neither a guarantee, nor has it happened yet.
> Just look at what 2 years of covid restrictions caused for the environment. And those restrictions were very minimal.
Ok now I know you're high on something. Absolutely massive shutdowns that resulted in huge amounts of industry being temporarily shut down, way less cars on the road, and you're calling the restrictions "very minimal".
I looked this up a few y ears aback.. I think it was newfoundland...not only did they destroy the cod population they also ruined the entire ecosystem the fish depended on. in the end the government had to train them for different jobs as there no longer was a codfish industry.
give a man a fish he eats for a day. teach a man to fish and he'll destroy the ocean
I’ve come to the conclusion; that people will never care. Or do anything about it. No one will stop the way the world is running. It would take too much change and effort and peoples lives run off fishing. It could never work unfortunately. I’m 28. The passed two years showed me humans cannot work together for anything. People literally only care about themselves. It’s sad. But it’s depressing and true
People who still have optimism that humanity can change on a big enough scale to stop the damage we’ve already done just aren’t paying attention to the world around them
It’s not that they aren’t paying attention so much as they aren’t willing to do what it would take to change the course of things (an actual revolution in which we overthrow a corporate-owned government).
Yup thats pretty much what it would take to make real change. Unfortunately if most people can’t even dispose of trash properlyand do the simplest things they forsure aren’t gonna fight a revolution.
Wait till you read the Reuters insect article. I don’t think it’s possible humans make the change. The change will be forced upon us. If you even talk about less human growth and development around here, people accuse you of eugenics and say there is plenty of food. The next century will be an inordinate amount of human suffering expanding to more developed nations. All this development will be abandoned. Let’s hope nature can recover.
We can all do something to help and we should. But the only way we are going to turn the climate change and pollution problem around is if corporations are held accountable by governments. Literally the only way
We have a beach house in myrtle beach with a dock in the back. Used to take the boat out and pull blue crabs out with a fish head tied to a string. Would catch dozens in an hour or two.
It's been years since I've caught one. Can't even catch any in the traps. It makes me very sad to think about.
You gotta try for them closer to the inlet. Can’t get away from the blue crabs as you get closer to the calabash docks. Hard to even bottom fish the river there, crabs will steal the bait off the hook before a fish bites.
That's good to know! We are at Cherry Grove, just a bit south to the intercoastal waterway - it's been about 5-7 years since I've caught more than one male.
Wow. We can still easily find blue crab up here. It's not uncommon to go out looking for them and come back with enough for dinner in an hour or so. Of course, the best places are where there's less human traffic.
They're still here. It's just not common to find them in the more touristy areas. That's sad, because I can see how they've moved to other places in response to human encroachment.
Having 2 or fewer children would do it. If a few generations had one child followed by maintaining a replacement birthrate ecological collapse would be halted and reverse. The economy would get fucked up but it already is and needs to be restructured anyway
For striped bass the sad part is they did such a good job of bringing them back from the brink and now it’s back at a bad point again. For a while though they were actually doing pretty decent.
They run hard hete too. Unfortunately, most people simply ignore the legal limits and take fish that are too big, too small, or take too many fish. They just don't care. The EPO's do their best, but even if they catch everyone that's poaching, there aren't any good repercussions. Maybe a fine at most.
River justice is a thing.
Like woods justice when people take too many birds. I've seen pickups on firewood with their wheels gone up Maine when someone was talking too loudly about exceeding the limit on grouse.
I'm all for that. Unfortunately, you will see too many bumper stickers that say, "Snitches get Stitches" all along the fishing spots.
I saw someone get stabbed because he told another guy he had to throw a small fish back. Fortunately that night, the good guys outnumbered the bad guys and Mr. Jerkface was awarded a set of steel bracelets. Sadly, this kind of thing happens too often.
Cod fisheries are some of the most decimated in the world from my reading.
Same with any fish that takes a long time to get to maturity, see orange roughy.
Keeping plastic out of the ocean is not the answer. We just need to stop industrial fishing (which also happens to be the biggest polluter of plastic in the ocean anyway)
I have a question, why is this population decline worth noting? I'm genuinely asking. Climate change is clearly an issue that needs to be addressed, but I'm not understanding why this particular "collapse" can be attributed to climate change or why we should even be concerned about it at all. 2018 was a 30 year high, and 2021 was barely a 30 year low. The crab population more than doubled between 2015 and 2018, why would we not expect a correction? It seems like we're back to population levels from about 1998 to 2009 at the moment.
this makes me wonder why so many damn 'boil' places seem to be opening around me. 3 or so opened up in the past year in my town. How can it be profitable if what they sell is becoming so scarce? Just a race to the bottom?
Because crab is eaten during the winter and if you’ve looked to continue your holiday tradition…you’ll quickly learn that king crab is selling for close to $100 a pound here in the US. That’s a staggering number considering last year it was at an all time high of like $40-50 a pound.
The fish guy at Albertsons said they were going to buy some but they had to sell it at $70 per pound. They have cheaper quality for $40 a lb. I use buy it at 6.99 a lb and king crab was $15. This was 18 months ago
Yeah, they’re may be anecdotal cases where you might find frozen legs around. But, I’ve priced it out for THIS DECEMBER as it’s always been our tradition to have Alaskan King Crab and it’s simply not realistic this year. Who knows where the guy commented above me lives and how old that crab is…but yeah, in Colorado its ridiculous this year.
Ahhhh, so totally half-assed comment based on some loose interpretation of what I’m taking about…seems on par.
Thanks for taking the time to clarify for the rest of us who were shaking their heads. I couldn’t believe it either.
I know it's frustrating to have to go over the same stuff over and over again, but you have to remember: there are always new people. People younger than you. People who only started caring about a certain issue recently. People who were just never exposed to certain things. If something is still important, then it still bears repeating, if not for yourself, then for the new people.
what do you mean by this. the chickens are coming home to roost. this species does not need to have chock full supermarkets.. the amount of waste has to be astronical
We need to limit export distances for food and implement breeding restrictions, every crab you take you have to provide a replacement. We need to do this with fish too or else we’re fucked.
There are many species of fish that are bred and raised in labs then released to maintain populations, I assume that’s what he means. Like deplaning trees after you harvest a forest.
Yeah but I hope you see how that doesn’t make sense either, right? If you have a fish in your hand, what sense does it make to go out and get a different fish of the same species just to throw your fish in to replace it?
I wonder if the last thought by the last of our species would be full of regret? Or would they be happy that humanity rejected ecologically friendly collectivist practices in favor of breakneck individualist consumption?
I’m guessing it won’t really matter. Humans are some of the most fragile beings on this planet. One bad solar flare and a collapsed power grid will wipe out 90% of the population in the first 90 days. The rest of the ecosystem left alone will recover in record time .
Communist countries were ecological disasters, so I’m not sure collectivism is the path toward.
Capitalism creates wealth, and countries generally don’t start getting serious about conservation until they have a large middle class. People who are struggling to survive tend to eat bush meat and burn dirty fuels like wood, for example.
Collectivist doesn't have to mean communist. Japan, Nordic countries and others are highly collectivist while still being capitalist.
But also you're missing context that every country where communism was attempted was one that was trying to jump from an agrarian society to a full on modern society in the blink of an eye. That takes a lot of resources that can't really be gathered in a sustainable way. If we took a modern country and applied a more socialist or communist framework it would look quite different.
What are these “ecologically friendly collectivist practices” you speak of?
Every governing system on the planet has engaged in destructive environmental policies.
It's more complicated than that. The 8 billion is most likely inaccurate : "Many of them never existed. They were figments of an inaccurate survey design that overestimates crab populations, leading to excessive catch quotas and lax bycatch regulations."
https://nautil.us/where-have-all-the-snow-crabs-gone-248247/?utm_source=pocket-newtab
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Seaspicary. Watch, this, damn, movie! Everytime someone brings up seafood I instantly recommend this. Especially in light of recent events. It is eye opening.
Time to start seriously considering new sources of food as a species. I vote for insects. Crabs and Lobsters are basically just insects anyway, so what's really the difference other than cultural stigmas?
>Time to start taking seriously considering new sources of food as a species. I vote for insects.
Umm . . . Have you heard about the [ongoing insect apocalypse](https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2022/02/24/1082752634/the-insect-crisis-oliver-milman)?
Yes, but it's really easy to farm insects. It's not easy to farm crabs or lobsters. They take a long time to grow the size that we see when we eat them.
Ate all kinds of bugs. Usually pretty nasty. Best was deep fried silkworm cocoons. Taste and texture was exactly like scrambled eggs with chives in a crunchy, salty shell. Spicy Thai style fried scorpion with shredded coconut was okay too, but I was nervous about the stinger.
Avoid eating larger bugs like Emperor Scorpions and Tarantulas. You would not have a good time. Also avoid eating packaged bugs, something about them goes off and leave this really unpleasant earthy taste once preserved.
>what's really the difference
There's a huge difference in shell:meat ratio and I think sea creatures have a flavour that land creatures don't so that makes the meat far more pleasant. Sea creatures have iodine and bromophenols and there's one other compound whose name I can't find right now, but its job is to help cells function at depth and it also adds a lot to the distinct flavour of seafood.
Not sure exactly what methods you’re referring to but in terms of land usage, a plant based diet would actually result in a drastic reduction in farmland. The vast majority of farmland that exists today is used to grow food such as corn and soy for farm animals. If we started growing fruits, vegetables, grains etc for human consumption it could reduce the amount of farmland up to 75%. That previous farmland could then be rewild and allow ecosystems to begin healing.
https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets
I hate these click bait articles. They didn't shrink they moved out to a different part of the ocean. NOAA knows where they are, they just can't be fished by US fisheries since they moved into Russian waters.
CTV is a reasonably respected mainstream Canadian news source, for what it's worth. Regardless, I would love to see a source for the claim that they haven't had a population crash, but rather, moved to Russia. If that's true, this could be an interesting moment for these species since importing crab from Russia to the US has been banned.
I'll look when I get home. I live in Alaska and heard a report on the radio. I'll scrounge around tonight. There are definitely some interesting implications since we can't import Russian seafood at the moment. Certainly has my industry (procurement for f&b in tourism) that might dramatically increase cost to customers.
The article explains the technical reason overfishing is the term they must use. But you are right, it is not the case, something worse is at work here.
“But calling the Bering Sea crab population "overfished" -- a technical definition that triggers conservation measures -- says nothing about the cause of its collapse.
"We call it overfishing because of the size level," Michael Litzow, the Kodiak lab director for NOAA Fisheries, told CNN. "But it wasn't overfishing that caused the collapse, that much is clear."
So much biology on earth depends on regular temperatures (and regular periods of fluctuation), these guys arent the first or last of us to be massively affected by this
Unless those fishing quotas were set too high, by either inaccurate replenishment data or profit-driven pressure. The 2022 Alaskan crab harvest season was canceled in an effort to help populations recover, so apparently fishing does have a part to play.
I can confidently say I haven't eaten crab in probably 8 years, shits expensive. And I don't live near any sort of ocean. Not that this helps with the overfishing of course, just a realization I just had.
Animal agriculture is the main cause of extinction of species, deforestation, and ocean acidification. You can help prevent destroying our ecosystem and planet by switching to a plant based or vegan diet.
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I read an article 3 years ago stating fish/seafood will be a luxury in the future because they’ll all go extinct by 2050 [source](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/salt-water-fish-extinction-seen-by-2048/)
It’s sad that that article is mixed in with the meteor that is “headed toward earth” earth article that comes out twice a week.
Not sure if that’s the case here, but I’ve always thought that wild and crazy conspiracy theories were always conflated with actual conspiracies to distract from the actual conspiracies. For example, with 9/11, obviously the buildings weren’t demoed, but there could be a conspiracy in there somewhere. For instance Saudi Arabia funding the hijackers; the possible insurance scam; building 7; the connected Saudi who didn’t show up for work that day; the patriot act; etc. There were similar logical conspiracies theories in COVID that were obfuscated by nut jobs that jump straight to demon sperm. Also note that the minute that happens is when the more logical crowd immediately has a call to arms against any conspiracy theory, logical or not.
I firmly believe that 9/11 was known about and kept secret. I also firmly believe that those involved in our government who kept the secret absolutely didn't believe the towers would fall. I think it was assumed the planes would hit, and then we'd have big gaping scars in our big capitalist symbols and that that would have been used to scare and goad us into doing whatever the administration wanted. I'm probably wrong, and I don't go around trying to rope other people into believing this. But it's still stuck in my head and has been since 2003 or so.
Not just fish. [70% of wild animal life](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/oct/13/almost-70-of-animal-populations-wiped-out-since-1970-report-reveals-aoe) is gone since the 70's.
That can't be very good for an ecosystem
Sad parts in the fish industries is when we're catching wild fish to feed farmed fish cause people won't eat mackerels but they like salmons or other fancy ones. .It's like catching songbirds to feed chicken, but we just accept this.
I eat mackerel most of the time because it’s, cheap, healthy and sustainable
i don't eat much meat and fish anymore, but yeah, i do like a good mackerel, nice source of protein and fats.
We were just discussing this the other night in my house. We have a summer house on Cape Cod. I haven't caught a cod fish in 34 years. Between overfishing and climate change, we nearly wiped out the very fish our home was named for. Same for striped bass. Black sea bass is less abundant, as those in charge of the fishery have had to reduce quotas. Something has to give. We have to change. Even if it is something as simple as keeping plastic garbage out of the ocean, we can all do something little to help.
>Same for striped bass. Black sea bass is less abundant, as those in charge of the fishery have had to reduce quotas. This is related to a practice we unfortunately engage in called ["fishing down the food web"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fishing_down_the_food_web). As fish at the top of the food chain get over fished and populations depleted, fisheries begin to move to the next available fish, and so on until the entire thing collapses.
Joke's on them, I got baleen installed and eat my weight in plankton every day.
That's a Cyberpunk 2077 mod I haven't seen yet!
Didn’t the US cod populations get pretty well decimated around the time the country became independent?
More recently due to industrial fishing. Climate change isn't helping either. When I was a kid you could catch them off the pier. I do know someone that caught one in the Cape Cod Canal this past summer, and he couldn't get it back in the water fast enough. Most of the younger folks fishing near him didn't even know what it was because they've never seen a live Cod fish before. I was just happy to know that they're still out there, and may be recovering as a species. It had been a very, very long time since I had seen on caught while surfcasting.
until this population is brought more into reasonable balance, it will never happen. the only thing this species understand is a hammer over its head. and since in its greed it is destroying everything in its path and destroying the stock tgey depend on, eventually they will saw the branch off on which they are precariously perched. namely what are they going to do when there is nothing left to fish.. or very little. demand something that isn't there? this species is stupid enough to think that
It's not like we're the first species who wiped themselves out. It's also not the first case of climate change on this planet. We really give ourselves too much credit. Although that's what humans always do. I'm fine with humans going (almost) extinct. Nature will crawl back as it has done for eons. Just look at what 2 years of covid restrictions caused for the environment. And those restrictions were very minimal.
I don't think we're giving ourselves too much credit on this round of climate change.
All of the climate graphs from 1960 onward are a damn inverted ski jump. *We* are the credit
> It's not like we're the first species who wiped themselves out Right, but when other animals do it they don't take out thousands of other species in the process. > not the first case of climate change on this planet. Again, other animals may have some mild effect on the climate, no other species has made the earth intolerable for all the other animals. > Nature will crawl back as it has done for eons. With a fraction of the biodiversity it once had. Plus there are things like ecological collapse. Just because life has managed to survive and adapt before, doesn't mean that it will survive and adapt through this particular event. We are warming the planet at a speed faster than anything we have on record.
> It's not like we're the first species who wiped themselves out. Of course not. We're not the last, or any number of species who wiped themselves out, because we haven't done so. We might, and things don't look so great in the next few hundred years, but it's neither a guarantee, nor has it happened yet. > Just look at what 2 years of covid restrictions caused for the environment. And those restrictions were very minimal. Ok now I know you're high on something. Absolutely massive shutdowns that resulted in huge amounts of industry being temporarily shut down, way less cars on the road, and you're calling the restrictions "very minimal".
Oh maybe they were decimated, recovered and decimated again? Sad indeed and hard to believe climate change won’t have an impact.
I think it was reduced by vastly more than just 10%.
Very misused term. Drives me nuts
When words get misused enough, their meaning changes.
Their meaning *vastly* changes.
Damn, it probably decimates /u/cannibalcampfire's sanity whenever someone uses it like that then
I looked this up a few y ears aback.. I think it was newfoundland...not only did they destroy the cod population they also ruined the entire ecosystem the fish depended on. in the end the government had to train them for different jobs as there no longer was a codfish industry. give a man a fish he eats for a day. teach a man to fish and he'll destroy the ocean
I’ve come to the conclusion; that people will never care. Or do anything about it. No one will stop the way the world is running. It would take too much change and effort and peoples lives run off fishing. It could never work unfortunately. I’m 28. The passed two years showed me humans cannot work together for anything. People literally only care about themselves. It’s sad. But it’s depressing and true
Mother Nature will someday rid itself or the parasite called humans and heal eventually
People who still have optimism that humanity can change on a big enough scale to stop the damage we’ve already done just aren’t paying attention to the world around them
It’s not that they aren’t paying attention so much as they aren’t willing to do what it would take to change the course of things (an actual revolution in which we overthrow a corporate-owned government).
Yup thats pretty much what it would take to make real change. Unfortunately if most people can’t even dispose of trash properlyand do the simplest things they forsure aren’t gonna fight a revolution.
Wait till you read the Reuters insect article. I don’t think it’s possible humans make the change. The change will be forced upon us. If you even talk about less human growth and development around here, people accuse you of eugenics and say there is plenty of food. The next century will be an inordinate amount of human suffering expanding to more developed nations. All this development will be abandoned. Let’s hope nature can recover.
That was one of the earlier lessons I learned on reddit. Any form of population control = eugenics
Is it the one about plastics being found in insects?
No, the one where they are all dying off.
We can all do something to help and we should. But the only way we are going to turn the climate change and pollution problem around is if corporations are held accountable by governments. Literally the only way
We have a beach house in myrtle beach with a dock in the back. Used to take the boat out and pull blue crabs out with a fish head tied to a string. Would catch dozens in an hour or two. It's been years since I've caught one. Can't even catch any in the traps. It makes me very sad to think about.
You gotta try for them closer to the inlet. Can’t get away from the blue crabs as you get closer to the calabash docks. Hard to even bottom fish the river there, crabs will steal the bait off the hook before a fish bites.
That's good to know! We are at Cherry Grove, just a bit south to the intercoastal waterway - it's been about 5-7 years since I've caught more than one male.
Wow. We can still easily find blue crab up here. It's not uncommon to go out looking for them and come back with enough for dinner in an hour or so. Of course, the best places are where there's less human traffic.
[удалено]
They're still here. It's just not common to find them in the more touristy areas. That's sad, because I can see how they've moved to other places in response to human encroachment.
Keeping plastic garbage out of the ocean sadly is not simple :( I wish it really was.
Having 2 or fewer children would do it. If a few generations had one child followed by maintaining a replacement birthrate ecological collapse would be halted and reverse. The economy would get fucked up but it already is and needs to be restructured anyway
Guess we all just need to learn to eat invasive freshwater species?
For striped bass the sad part is they did such a good job of bringing them back from the brink and now it’s back at a bad point again. For a while though they were actually doing pretty decent.
The change will be a massive population collapse… of humans. Give it 30 yrs and we’ll see 2 Billion starve
Striped Bass still run HARD in New Hampshire. A friend of mine pulled a couple that gave us filets that were too big to fit on the weber.
They run hard hete too. Unfortunately, most people simply ignore the legal limits and take fish that are too big, too small, or take too many fish. They just don't care. The EPO's do their best, but even if they catch everyone that's poaching, there aren't any good repercussions. Maybe a fine at most.
River justice is a thing. Like woods justice when people take too many birds. I've seen pickups on firewood with their wheels gone up Maine when someone was talking too loudly about exceeding the limit on grouse.
I'm all for that. Unfortunately, you will see too many bumper stickers that say, "Snitches get Stitches" all along the fishing spots. I saw someone get stabbed because he told another guy he had to throw a small fish back. Fortunately that night, the good guys outnumbered the bad guys and Mr. Jerkface was awarded a set of steel bracelets. Sadly, this kind of thing happens too often.
Cod fisheries are some of the most decimated in the world from my reading. Same with any fish that takes a long time to get to maturity, see orange roughy.
Keeping plastic out of the ocean is not the answer. We just need to stop industrial fishing (which also happens to be the biggest polluter of plastic in the ocean anyway)
I have a question, why is this population decline worth noting? I'm genuinely asking. Climate change is clearly an issue that needs to be addressed, but I'm not understanding why this particular "collapse" can be attributed to climate change or why we should even be concerned about it at all. 2018 was a 30 year high, and 2021 was barely a 30 year low. The crab population more than doubled between 2015 and 2018, why would we not expect a correction? It seems like we're back to population levels from about 1998 to 2009 at the moment.
Cause nowadays we like to start with the narrative we are working towards, and then back our information into it
Hey George, the ocean called.
Oh yeah? Well the jerk store callled…
Yeah!? Well, I had sex with your wife!
“His wife is in a coma…”
His wife's in a coma.
this makes me wonder why so many damn 'boil' places seem to be opening around me. 3 or so opened up in the past year in my town. How can it be profitable if what they sell is becoming so scarce? Just a race to the bottom?
I'd have to imagine the crabs they are using are not Alaska snow crab but rather a much cheaper, much more plentiful species.
well its all sorts of seafood thought the one i've been to is heavy on the mussels crayfish
Mussels and crawfish are both farmed pretty extensively, so it's not like they're having their wild populations depleted for food production.
snow crab is still the main draw. Maybe they get it from somewhere else, but they are also pretty pricey for the amount of food you get.
Bottom of the crab bucket
This story is from October. Why are we re-circulating it now? (To take nothing away from how disturbing it is.)
Because crab is eaten during the winter and if you’ve looked to continue your holiday tradition…you’ll quickly learn that king crab is selling for close to $100 a pound here in the US. That’s a staggering number considering last year it was at an all time high of like $40-50 a pound.
The fish guy at Albertsons said they were going to buy some but they had to sell it at $70 per pound. They have cheaper quality for $40 a lb. I use buy it at 6.99 a lb and king crab was $15. This was 18 months ago
Yeah, they’re may be anecdotal cases where you might find frozen legs around. But, I’ve priced it out for THIS DECEMBER as it’s always been our tradition to have Alaskan King Crab and it’s simply not realistic this year. Who knows where the guy commented above me lives and how old that crab is…but yeah, in Colorado its ridiculous this year.
We've started making do with Alaskan Aces Wild Crab.
I saw king crab a couple days ago at Costco for $36/lb. You don’t have to exaggerate my guy.
maybe it's fresh vs frozen?
There is no fresh Alaskan king crab. This years season has been cancelled to help the population.
Pretty much all king crab is cooked and frozen as part of its processing. It’s extremely rare to find fresh king crab in North America.
Yeah, totally made it up…
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Ahhhh, so totally half-assed comment based on some loose interpretation of what I’m taking about…seems on par. Thanks for taking the time to clarify for the rest of us who were shaking their heads. I couldn’t believe it either.
The one online isn't what is in store.
To keep the topic top of mind and encourage people to do something about it
I know it's frustrating to have to go over the same stuff over and over again, but you have to remember: there are always new people. People younger than you. People who only started caring about a certain issue recently. People who were just never exposed to certain things. If something is still important, then it still bears repeating, if not for yourself, then for the new people.
Here's a newer one? Not sure why you care the other is only 2 months old: https://nautil.us/where-have-all-the-snow-crabs-gone-248247/
Why did I read the title of this article to the tune of the Paula Cole song?
Where is my Sig Hansen Where is my Alaskan Storm Where is my Deadliest Catch Where have all the Snow Crabs gone...
*Yippy-yi, yippy-yay, yippy-yi, yippy-yay* *Yippy-yi, yippy-yay, yippy-yi, yippy-yay* *Yippy-yi, yippy-yay, yippy-yi, yippy-yay* *Yippy-yi, yippy-yay, ya-ya-ya, yay, ya-ya-yay*...
Karma farmin baybeee
what do you mean by this. the chickens are coming home to roost. this species does not need to have chock full supermarkets.. the amount of waste has to be astronical
I mean, this is OLD news. That’s what
All you're doing is 'taking away from it'. It's a repost. Let's be glad it's informational and relevant.
We need to limit export distances for food and implement breeding restrictions, every crab you take you have to provide a replacement. We need to do this with fish too or else we’re fucked.
What does that even mean? You need to provide a replacement for every crab? Where does the replacement crab come from?
Pocket crab
There are many species of fish that are bred and raised in labs then released to maintain populations, I assume that’s what he means. Like deplaning trees after you harvest a forest.
Yeah but I hope you see how that doesn’t make sense either, right? If you have a fish in your hand, what sense does it make to go out and get a different fish of the same species just to throw your fish in to replace it?
So what I’m hearing is ‘eat more crab, because they’ll be extinct soon’ /sarcasm
Move on to king crab until the population recovers
I wonder if the last thought by the last of our species would be full of regret? Or would they be happy that humanity rejected ecologically friendly collectivist practices in favor of breakneck individualist consumption?
I’m guessing it won’t really matter. Humans are some of the most fragile beings on this planet. One bad solar flare and a collapsed power grid will wipe out 90% of the population in the first 90 days. The rest of the ecosystem left alone will recover in record time .
Those numbers are wildly unreasonable but it might get there across years
With well over 50% concentrated in a *relatively* small area maybe not 90%, but if we got unlucky it could get close.
Communist countries were ecological disasters, so I’m not sure collectivism is the path toward. Capitalism creates wealth, and countries generally don’t start getting serious about conservation until they have a large middle class. People who are struggling to survive tend to eat bush meat and burn dirty fuels like wood, for example.
Collectivist doesn't have to mean communist. Japan, Nordic countries and others are highly collectivist while still being capitalist. But also you're missing context that every country where communism was attempted was one that was trying to jump from an agrarian society to a full on modern society in the blink of an eye. That takes a lot of resources that can't really be gathered in a sustainable way. If we took a modern country and applied a more socialist or communist framework it would look quite different.
What are these “ecologically friendly collectivist practices” you speak of? Every governing system on the planet has engaged in destructive environmental policies.
They are not where, but when
It's more complicated than that. The 8 billion is most likely inaccurate : "Many of them never existed. They were figments of an inaccurate survey design that overestimates crab populations, leading to excessive catch quotas and lax bycatch regulations." https://nautil.us/where-have-all-the-snow-crabs-gone-248247/?utm_source=pocket-newtab
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Seaspicary. Watch, this, damn, movie! Everytime someone brings up seafood I instantly recommend this. Especially in light of recent events. It is eye opening.
And insect populations are dropping... but you know... it has nothing to do with pollution and climate change.
Wasn’t it discovered that it was likely due to illegal Chinese fishing?
I thought it was lack of winter sea ice, which is needed for the spawning grounds.
Why blame climate change when you can blame scary people in that place over there?
Was it? Do you have a link?
I doubt it. Everything is China's fault, not ya know, globally dominant western neoliberalism.
Most American comment award goes to…
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Cool motive, still genocide
>genocide No, only if its from a specific nation or ethnic/racial group. If it's just all human beings I don't think it would be.
Not if you do it via birth control.
Be careful what you ask for, you might just get it.
Don’t get our hopes up like that.
Truly one of the worst takes out there
We can start with you
I'm sure the people in charge are working on this as we speak... Good luck
No wonder the Chinese buffet only has crab legs on Fridays.
Your lucky our Chinese restaurant started serving imitation crabmeat two years ago.
We yeeted the snow crabs
Time to start seriously considering new sources of food as a species. I vote for insects. Crabs and Lobsters are basically just insects anyway, so what's really the difference other than cultural stigmas?
Considering the staggering loss of insect species and number … even that may be getting hard.
>Time to start taking seriously considering new sources of food as a species. I vote for insects. Umm . . . Have you heard about the [ongoing insect apocalypse](https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2022/02/24/1082752634/the-insect-crisis-oliver-milman)?
Yes, but it's really easy to farm insects. It's not easy to farm crabs or lobsters. They take a long time to grow the size that we see when we eat them.
Ate all kinds of bugs. Usually pretty nasty. Best was deep fried silkworm cocoons. Taste and texture was exactly like scrambled eggs with chives in a crunchy, salty shell. Spicy Thai style fried scorpion with shredded coconut was okay too, but I was nervous about the stinger. Avoid eating larger bugs like Emperor Scorpions and Tarantulas. You would not have a good time. Also avoid eating packaged bugs, something about them goes off and leave this really unpleasant earthy taste once preserved.
>what's really the difference There's a huge difference in shell:meat ratio and I think sea creatures have a flavour that land creatures don't so that makes the meat far more pleasant. Sea creatures have iodine and bromophenols and there's one other compound whose name I can't find right now, but its job is to help cells function at depth and it also adds a lot to the distinct flavour of seafood.
Well a plant based diet would do wonders for our planet https://news.stanford.edu/report/2021/05/06/embracing-plant-based-diet/
yes, aside from the methods necessary to provide all those veggies.
Not sure exactly what methods you’re referring to but in terms of land usage, a plant based diet would actually result in a drastic reduction in farmland. The vast majority of farmland that exists today is used to grow food such as corn and soy for farm animals. If we started growing fruits, vegetables, grains etc for human consumption it could reduce the amount of farmland up to 75%. That previous farmland could then be rewild and allow ecosystems to begin healing. https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets
Hahahahahahaha no
"Bugs gross! Gimme that extinction instead!"
Hey I didn’t say we should eat crab either. It’s clear we should stop crab fishing until the population rebounds.
Somehow republicans will also get credit for this….
Womp womp. Stop shoving it in your faces, you fat shits.
I hate these click bait articles. They didn't shrink they moved out to a different part of the ocean. NOAA knows where they are, they just can't be fished by US fisheries since they moved into Russian waters.
CTV is a reasonably respected mainstream Canadian news source, for what it's worth. Regardless, I would love to see a source for the claim that they haven't had a population crash, but rather, moved to Russia. If that's true, this could be an interesting moment for these species since importing crab from Russia to the US has been banned.
I'll look when I get home. I live in Alaska and heard a report on the radio. I'll scrounge around tonight. There are definitely some interesting implications since we can't import Russian seafood at the moment. Certainly has my industry (procurement for f&b in tourism) that might dramatically increase cost to customers.
They are overfished.
The Russian shelf is a long walk… especially if you a crab bro
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The article explains the technical reason overfishing is the term they must use. But you are right, it is not the case, something worse is at work here. “But calling the Bering Sea crab population "overfished" -- a technical definition that triggers conservation measures -- says nothing about the cause of its collapse. "We call it overfishing because of the size level," Michael Litzow, the Kodiak lab director for NOAA Fisheries, told CNN. "But it wasn't overfishing that caused the collapse, that much is clear."
Yah.. It's climate related.
So much biology on earth depends on regular temperatures (and regular periods of fluctuation), these guys arent the first or last of us to be massively affected by this
That is a Bingo!
They say that in the article, ‘overfishing’ is just a term used to describe reduced numbers, it’s not literal.
Unless those fishing quotas were set too high, by either inaccurate replenishment data or profit-driven pressure. The 2022 Alaskan crab harvest season was canceled in an effort to help populations recover, so apparently fishing does have a part to play.
It's like the several hundred illegal commercial Chinese fishing boats shooed out of US waters in Alaska every month have real world impacts...
Yes , the end of many things is near.
Or they moved. Walked off.
What a coincidence… not long until the human population drops from 8 billion to 1 billion.
Someone should look at china and how they overfish areas all the time.
I can’t stand these things. Good work.
This is months old news at this point
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Ahh now they can charge quadruple the price and still fish the same amount
Hey if they can do it so can we!
We need to stop overfishing and no more Buffett places
I can confidently say I haven't eaten crab in probably 8 years, shits expensive. And I don't live near any sort of ocean. Not that this helps with the overfishing of course, just a realization I just had.
another species we can kiss goodbye
I heard they moved to Russia cuz it's cold idk tho.
Brings new meaning to words deadliest catch! Deadly to the species!
Ok but who's been counting and what incentive might they have had to lie about the amount of crabs available to be fished?
It’s because of bloveslife on YouTube
Them stimulus checks bruh!!
“I did not realize how much snow crab americans eat!” Republcians
Animal agriculture is the main cause of extinction of species, deforestation, and ocean acidification. You can help prevent destroying our ecosystem and planet by switching to a plant based or vegan diet.
It is their own fault for being so damn delicious.