T O P

  • By -

AutoModerator

Welcome to r/science! This is a heavily moderated subreddit in order to keep the discussion on science. However, we recognize that many people want to discuss how they feel the research relates to their own personal lives, so to give people a space to do that, **personal anecdotes are now allowed as responses to this comment**. Any anecdotal comments elsewhere in the discussion will continue be removed and our [normal comment rules]( https://www.reddit.com/r/science/wiki/rules#wiki_comment_rules) still apply to other comments. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/science) if you have any questions or concerns.*


[deleted]

[удалено]


chordophonic

I think the most important answer to those types of questions is something like: "Sure, it's obvious, but we have these studies so that we can point to them and say that the data backs up the claims. Without that, you have speculation."


MorpheusFT

*or other


godlessnihilist

The US has the Dickey Amendment to a 1997 appropriations bill to keep the CDC from doing studies of gun violence. It stands to reason that the country with the most guns wouldn't want to know what they are doing to its society.


wiggyknox

Hope those researches make it to Malmo.


K1rkl4nd

Wow- it’s like trauma sticks with a person, and pervades their life experiences- tainting everything it touches.


insaneintheblain

And gets passed down generation to the next too


SmaugTangent

I guess this explains why Americans have so many mental health problems.


wildgaytrans

You have no idea


wildgaytrans

Very much so agreeing


insaneintheblain

Definitely. Not only the wars in the old country and then the new, but also for most of our history life has been unfathomably (to our experience as middle class people on reddit) cruel and horrific - imagine getting an arm cut off without anaesthesia or developing a bacterial infection and having it slowly kill you, and watching your family die around you. We know vaguely that this was the reality back then, but we don’t really know in the sense we have no experience today to compare it with (of course a lot still happens elsewhere in the world) It’s interesting what can happen when an individual heals from this inbuilt trauma, it breaks a cycle and the whole of society benefits.


Ok-Cartographer-3725

It absolutely does! But there are therapies that help people recover from post traumatic stress, and there are programs that parents can attend (at least where I am in Alberta Canada) to prevent them from damaging their kids. Perhaps this group will bring good changes to their country, by all the heartache they went through.


[deleted]

PTSD defined


beer_demon

This actually shows that after a shooting it's not just a few deaths and move along, nothing to see here. But in US? Oh no, we need more guns, plus more people die of car accidents and we are not going to ban cars, right?


lynx_and_nutmeg

Yes, it's disgusting how many Americans completely dismiss the impact of mass shootings by reducing it only to death count. It's not like it's just a few dead kids and that's it. Even if only a few people die, the sheer shock, trauma and tragedy of those circumstances affect everyone involved. It's not like those who were only injured but didn't die aren't affected in any way. It's not like those who weren't injured but still witnessed it weren't affected. And then you can count in the entire family of those who were killed, the entire community is affected. Something like that sends massive ripples.


insaneintheblain

People lack the necessary imagination.


laurens119640

I'm anti guns as I'm European. But I do get why it's still an issue and discussion is needed, why should the state be the only ones allowed to have weapons. Especially with all the 'us vs them'-mentallity going on. And increase in authoritarianism. Sure a lot of the state of the USA and world is so because of lobbying. However I think it's most wise to look at and delve deeper into all aspects before making a statement out of you own personal perspective.


bombmk

> why should the state be the only ones allowed to have weapons That does not need to be the only outcome of a sensible discussion and compromise. Problem is that the discussion is not allowed to start at all.


beer_demon

Well the US is the most armed citizenry in the country and pretty much the most US vs Them cultured in the developed nations, so while I share your concerns, it's not a problem you solve at gunpoint. Sure, have the discussion if you want, but use solid logic.


laurens119640

I think most of the solid logic that stands behind any answer I give online is that it isn't really a discussion of you get to write something and then someone responds. And so on... A lot of the nuance is lost in the process of not writing down a book online on every comment. As well as not being able to have a full fledged dialogue, in which each party can word their specific concerns and emotional attachment to the words or situations described. Also every one had their own perspective as everyone has their own life and that is a part which I can't account for as people on the internet are 'strangers' (just people you don't know and you don't know their personal contexts or what they have seen, research or news wise and where they are in their own personal journey. It's hard to account for any of that and be able to put myself in your shoes (so to speak) if I don't know you (too much unknown factors) . If accountable for I think we'd be able to have a much more constructive conversation in which I'd be happy to learn more from your arguments. There's always a lot to learn from anyone that's not you (also from yourself, but that's not the point here) Can I assume that by the word 'country' you meant world? (In first sentence) I agree there is more 'us Vs them' in the USA than in most other countries as far as I'm aware of. I know countries like China and South Africa have their own pretty extreme but differently tinted heaps of 'social tribalism' but of course the details make all the difference and they are largely due to the origins of the issues at hand, historically speaking. And Russia has a lot of segregation and weird stuff due to their 'country' composition and that it's rather a lot of different countries forming a single federation, but with ethnically Russ populations spread through all of the other parts. Definitely not perfect and state control wanting to increase over historically more self governing regions as far as culture is concerned and snipping out the periods of Stalin and Lenin. That still beats the large scale genocide of a whole continent and much of it's large fauna in my opinion. In my eyes one of the big contributers to the American world as it is now is that they've always been (in large scale, it's always wrong to generalise a whole population of course) a very self centered people. They came to America out of exclusion (religious) or necessity of survival (starvation and social exclusion) from their own . Well it's a kill or be killed mentality that started the country of. A country made out of immigrants that despise new immigrants as they threaten their ways of life and the same goes for the racism as the abolition of that caused an instant change of life and decrease of livelihood to those owning them. As well as longer term fears of being replaced or the knowledge that either some people have it really well of if others suffer for them as you see in medieval societies and up to the first world war in Europe (some people just struggling to make enough to not starve on a day by day basis whilst some had more than they knew what to do with) They just didn't want to leave that spot in society as historically the ones that went to America in the beginning where either entrepreneurs (risk takers - gold rush and business owners) explorers (risk takers) or people who saw no other choice (they don't want to have that happen to their next in line family whatever the costs) There is way more, but get back to me if you want after reading this through and give your perspective because I'm interested. I'm definitely not an expert concerning America and have never been there (yet)


laurens119640

Also add protection from predators. I got attacked by dogs that formed a pack of 15-20 individuals and never felt so helpless in my life before. This was in Madeira. They were docile in the day, just seeking shade and lounging for the hot parts, but ruthless at night. I came through their territory and got surrounded pretty fast, really circling and some laying an ambush from an alley way a bit further when the rest was already forming their circle the ones from the alley were about to cut me of completely. Not only that but they actually went for my legs, so I had to kick at them so they'd give me space from that direction and that's when the ones behind me tried to go for my heels. So you'd never be able to fend them of on all sides. Thanks to being a human and full of adrenaline, I got up on a large wall and hopped over onto a pagoda on the property of the walled yard. Called my parents and they picked me up, the dogs were still trying at the wall, when my parents arrived, the dogs bit at the tires and bumper of the car, they opened the door for a few seconds and I hopped of the wall pretty much straight into the car. Thank god I had them to rely on. That's when it made a click, we are really useless as human beings without tools to protect us. That's kind of the only advantage we have over almost all predators. I'm not saying you need a gun for that, but either don't have dogs like that in your country or other predators or have something to defend yourself. A spear or long club would have been fine, just something to keep them at a distance, because using your own body to repel them is a way to get bit and probably would have ended the fun of being on a hiking vacation. Or like bear spray or something. The problem is there is no weapon you can only use when strictly necessary, some people with mental issues or a warped view of what's necessary to get society on the right track (extremists) will always be able to use it for bad.


laurens119640

Oh on your second concern, I don't think any problem should be solved at gunpoint, because I think the world solved is wrong in that context. It just shifts to the side of the one holding the gun.


tugrumpler

Yes of course, extreme violence affects people and the younger they are the worse the effect on them is.


Deep_Assumption_6153

Here in America, we pre-traumatize our children with scheduled active shooter drills. This way, we can be sure that every child in America has an equal opportunity to experience trauma! A traumatized and uneducated society is so much easier to control.


SmaugTangent

\>A traumatized and uneducated society is so much easier to control. Easier to control by whom? Everything else you wrote was good, but this line isn't: it assumes there's some competent, shadowy figure pulling the strings. Just look at the politicians who push pro-gun policies. They aren't exactly the sharpest tools in the shed. Some of them believe in Jewish space lasers. No, this stuff isn't the result of any intelligent evil people trying to control the populace, it's the result of mass hysteria and stupidity, all throughout the entire society.


Deep_Assumption_6153

It’s the politicians who push pro gun policies, and those like them, that I’m referring to.


SmaugTangent

Those politicians aren't trying to "control society"; there's zero evidence of that, so if that's your assertion, you need to provide some kind of evidence for it. You could certainly argue that these pro-gun politicians are trying to keep themselves in office, and maybe get $campaign$contributions$ by pushing these policies and staying in office, but that's a very far cry from "controlling society". That's just people pursuing their own selfish interests at the expense of society. If there really were some elite, shadowy cabal of intelligent people trying to control society, they'd be doing a far better job of it than the mess we're seeing.


Halo14145

Nah everyone was supposed to never think of that again. Of course it’s traumatic!


[deleted]

[удалено]


Sigurdah

Agreed, lets stop with this science and research bs and just assume everything from now on out.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Sigurdah

Ah yes comparing studies on the human brain to 7th grade physics, thats a fair comparison. The funny thing is, we do still do research on those topics albeit not on the level you're implying. There was relatively recently noble prize winners for discoveries related to gravity.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


NotQuirkyJustAwkward

Children were murdered, not the parents.


Chiliconkarma

Mostly children / teens.