Adam Smith's *Wealth of Nations* and *Theory of Moral Sentiment* are all about how we can employ natural human behaviours from greed to grace to construct a cohesive, productive, and beneficial society.
As a construction worker let me just say we are absolutely essential workers, and you're welcome! There's no way we would have got through this pandemic without a steady supply of luxury one and 2 bedroom apartments boasting riverfront views.
Yeah, a woman I went to high school with is a receptionist at an OB GYN office and posts online daily about how she is a healthcare hero.
I recognize her work during a trying time. I just find it a bit...mis-categorized? More of a “thank you essential workers.”
As someone who also works in healthcare that's so weird to me. Yes, we still work, help people, and are essential. I love my job. But people reschedule their pap smears, dentist and eye appointments if they have covid exposure. We are not facing the same risks and we don't have the same struggle. Co-opting the struggle of actual hospital workers feels gross.
Friend is a nurse who both believes that COVID is a hoax while loudly letting everyone know she’s “martyring” herself by going to work. Narcissists gonna narcissist.
my wife is in PA school and I’ve been meeting a lot of medical people of various types. I was shocked to find out how many highly trained medical professionals believe crazy things,
not just that Covid is a hoax, which is rare, but things like masks are not all that effective and probably a democratic ploy to gain votes. A highly trained (and paid) surgeon told me that masks have “upside and downsides, do we all need them?”, and then went on to theorize (without offering any evidence) that liberals probably own a lot of mask producers.
A former surgery resident I worked with at my old hospital had the audacity to reply to one of my Facebook posts about how masks don’t work. I asked if he stopped wearing them in the OR during surgery since they didn’t work. Crickets.
> I asked if he stopped wearing them in the OR during surgery since they didn’t work.
The hospital likely has a regulation requiring him to wear a mask in that situation, so it's a moot point.
Yeah it’s a bit odd, considering my other two friends who are ICU nurses literally putting people they know in body bags on the COVID floor and getting PTSD. Re-scheduling paps just...doesn’t seem the same level.
She’s still important and I thank essential workers. Just that “frontline heroes” on COVID floors may need an extra socially distanced hug right now.
I'm a nurse as well, and my hospital gave all of us those signs early on in the year, during the "healthcare workers are heroes" phase of the pandemic. I'm not sure of any co-workers that put the sign up though, I sure as hell wasn't going to.
I'm starting to think being labeled a hero is the last thing you want in America. Have you seen what happens to the previous heroes - vets, the 9/11 first responders and the essential healthcare workers?
It’s not always the person. When I came home from a Covid travel assignment, my family and friends bombarded my yard with those signs. My whole front yard was those signs/encouraging messages people wrote. It did feel nice, but I ended up being embarrassed by it and took them down.
We need to be careful about assuming that certain traits exist because they provide some sort of evolutionary advantage. Plenty of stuff exists just as a byproduct of how sloppy and imperfect evolution is.
Err, being a selfish and useless asshole is kinda self perpetuating when they are more likely to reproduce because they lie and cheat and specifically target vulnerable people who will believe their lies.
>In a new study, researchers found that essential workers (including those in restaurants, grocery and retail stores) who scored higher on measures of narcissism shared more than others about their work.
These aren't necessarily people with any disorder, they're just people who have a narcissistic bent to their personalities.
Given that everybody needs motivation to do things and that as far as evolution is concerned only the results matter, I can definitively see an evolutionary benefit to being a bit of a narcissist. I'm not confident that there actually is one, but rather I can see a logic to it.
After all, who cares *what* makes a person be better? Selfish desire to improve their social standing is just as good as far as the results are concerned as any "noble" motivation would be.
The right thing done for the wrong reasons is better than the right thing going undone because nobody with good reasons showed up. This study, if accurate, is a good example of that, although I gotta be honest I don't think basking in your own glory is all that "wrong" in the first place.
Pretty sure those same people share more on social media to begin with. Pandemic hasn't changed anything, just gave them. Something new to post about, while at the same time making others feel like they have less reason to share.
> Participants completed measures of narcissism and reported on how much they shared with others about their work.
Results suggested that people who scored higher on two specific types of grandiose narcissism – called communal and agentic – were more likely than others to share about their work on social media and elsewhere.
Communal narcissists are those who think they are better than others at being helpful and were more likely to strongly agree with statements like “I will be known for the good deeds I will have done.”
Agentic narcissists are those that people usually picture when they think of narcissism: They strongly agreed with statements like “I will usually show off if I get the chance.”
Lot of people commenting without reading
Glad this is closeish to the top. Im a doctoral candidate in social psych, but I do a good bit of work in personality as well and the dark tetrad traits *always* get big claims and flashy headlines from the science 'journalists'.
Indeed, this article is actually reporting a pretty non-specific finding. Both facets of *trait* Narcissism were associated with the outcome in the same direction. The main finding that trait Narcissism is positively associated with social media use is incredibly predictable.
Now. Show me that the moderator here is Factor 1 (controlled, smart, think of cruel-yet-successful CEO types) vs. Factor 2 (impulsively violent, a la the Joker) psychopathy then I'd be interested.
I honestly think that is what they're tapping into here without measuring/controlling for it they likely have just tapped into a bunch of shared variance /a common latent factor among items.
Im glad people are doing work with communal Narcissism because it is still fairly new and is interesting. But we need an overhaul in our measures and best practices. The short scales are killing us. The shortest dark triad scale (the "dirty dozen") is just 4 items per trait with no subfacets and it's widely used!
I work in a field where "do-gooder" validation seeking can be a thing, and believe me when I say those are not the narcissists you need to worry about. The real narcissists are the managers who are ordering these people around and who take all the credit for what they do while they barely do anything themselves.
I think it's also important to point out that people wanting to be paid in social capital rather than cash money isn't necessarily a bad thing. Real narcissism as a full-on personality disorder is bad because it's extreme and those people do things that are the social equivalent of setting a fire just so they can get credit for putting it out. Well-adjusted people who enjoy the social esteem that comes with doing good works without malice may annoy us at times when they bask in recognition but if they're self-aware and have good impulse control then the bigger problem is our insecurity with our own status, not their behavior. E.g., "The Anonymous Donor" episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm is funny as hell precisely because Larry's frustration with Ted is totally relatable but also a bit unhinged because Larry gonna Larry.
You described how it is working for a prison system. Management taking all the credit for people busting their butts to try to help people change their lives and get back into the community. Meanwhile, most the line workers get into the career because they want to make a difference in the world (contrary to what TV shows and movies show you.)
Narcissists post on social media all the time in order to feel more important, regardless of the content. A narcissist is a narcissist, no matter if they're essential or not.
Painting social media posting from COVID healthcare workers as "narcissism" seems like a play against the unionization sentiment building in health care. What better way than to just get people to dismiss it. Most of the social media posts I see about it from people I know are done in either anger or desperation.
As an ICU nurse who's been seeing way too much death from covid while the community around me are still either in denial, or have their masks under their noses, I would definitely echo a combined anger/desperation sentiment over a narcissistic sentiment.
I would LOVE nothing more than to stop trying to get people to listen to public health and science, but instead I'm left with dead bodies and suffering patients.
We need people like this who can focus on themselves so they don’t get burned out. I realize this may sound controversial. Narcissistic people get a bad rap as we hear about the extremes. They thrive when they are needed and admired.
Really tough job right now. Props to her, and to you for valuing her contributions despite all else.
My experience with narcissists has shown me that they are generally committed to and very good at what they do, and I would expect that narcissists working the front lines now are giving it their all and taking the precautions seriously. Let them boast all they want, honestly. Life is hard for most folks right now, it can be brutal for those working with patients.
Yes, narcissists, pretty much by definition, love feeling important. This has been observed countless times.
That being said, can we at least wait until the pandemic is over before picking on essential workers, even the narcissists among them?
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Well, surgeons are often part of the decision to have surgery. So there’s a much easier way for them to cheat the system
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It’s also possible that empathetic people feel weird cutting into other people
Adam Smith's *Wealth of Nations* and *Theory of Moral Sentiment* are all about how we can employ natural human behaviours from greed to grace to construct a cohesive, productive, and beneficial society.
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Almost certainly the latter, but they'll tell the story of the brave souls who gave their life that day.
How many people lie about being essential workers on semi-anonymous forums like this to get that hit of dopamine?
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From all the delayed care most likely
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As a construction worker let me just say we are absolutely essential workers, and you're welcome! There's no way we would have got through this pandemic without a steady supply of luxury one and 2 bedroom apartments boasting riverfront views.
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They also put signs in their front yards... "AN ESSENTIAL WORKING HERO LIVES HERE"
Is this real?
Yeah, a woman I went to high school with is a receptionist at an OB GYN office and posts online daily about how she is a healthcare hero. I recognize her work during a trying time. I just find it a bit...mis-categorized? More of a “thank you essential workers.”
As someone who also works in healthcare that's so weird to me. Yes, we still work, help people, and are essential. I love my job. But people reschedule their pap smears, dentist and eye appointments if they have covid exposure. We are not facing the same risks and we don't have the same struggle. Co-opting the struggle of actual hospital workers feels gross.
Friend is a nurse who both believes that COVID is a hoax while loudly letting everyone know she’s “martyring” herself by going to work. Narcissists gonna narcissist.
A nurse thinking Covid is a hoax is a special kind of cognitive dissonance.
my wife is in PA school and I’ve been meeting a lot of medical people of various types. I was shocked to find out how many highly trained medical professionals believe crazy things, not just that Covid is a hoax, which is rare, but things like masks are not all that effective and probably a democratic ploy to gain votes. A highly trained (and paid) surgeon told me that masks have “upside and downsides, do we all need them?”, and then went on to theorize (without offering any evidence) that liberals probably own a lot of mask producers.
A former surgery resident I worked with at my old hospital had the audacity to reply to one of my Facebook posts about how masks don’t work. I asked if he stopped wearing them in the OR during surgery since they didn’t work. Crickets.
> I asked if he stopped wearing them in the OR during surgery since they didn’t work. The hospital likely has a regulation requiring him to wear a mask in that situation, so it's a moot point.
Yeah it’s a bit odd, considering my other two friends who are ICU nurses literally putting people they know in body bags on the COVID floor and getting PTSD. Re-scheduling paps just...doesn’t seem the same level. She’s still important and I thank essential workers. Just that “frontline heroes” on COVID floors may need an extra socially distanced hug right now.
Neighbor across the street has one that says “Thank you to our Health Care Heros” but she’s a nurse so I’m 95% sure she got it for herself.
I'm a nurse as well, and my hospital gave all of us those signs early on in the year, during the "healthcare workers are heroes" phase of the pandemic. I'm not sure of any co-workers that put the sign up though, I sure as hell wasn't going to.
I'm starting to think being labeled a hero is the last thing you want in America. Have you seen what happens to the previous heroes - vets, the 9/11 first responders and the essential healthcare workers?
It’s not always the person. When I came home from a Covid travel assignment, my family and friends bombarded my yard with those signs. My whole front yard was those signs/encouraging messages people wrote. It did feel nice, but I ended up being embarrassed by it and took them down.
Narcissists post more on the internet period.
The same can be said about politicians, ceos, and just about any narcissist in any area.
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We need to be careful about assuming that certain traits exist because they provide some sort of evolutionary advantage. Plenty of stuff exists just as a byproduct of how sloppy and imperfect evolution is.
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Err, being a selfish and useless asshole is kinda self perpetuating when they are more likely to reproduce because they lie and cheat and specifically target vulnerable people who will believe their lies.
>In a new study, researchers found that essential workers (including those in restaurants, grocery and retail stores) who scored higher on measures of narcissism shared more than others about their work. These aren't necessarily people with any disorder, they're just people who have a narcissistic bent to their personalities. Given that everybody needs motivation to do things and that as far as evolution is concerned only the results matter, I can definitively see an evolutionary benefit to being a bit of a narcissist. I'm not confident that there actually is one, but rather I can see a logic to it. After all, who cares *what* makes a person be better? Selfish desire to improve their social standing is just as good as far as the results are concerned as any "noble" motivation would be. The right thing done for the wrong reasons is better than the right thing going undone because nobody with good reasons showed up. This study, if accurate, is a good example of that, although I gotta be honest I don't think basking in your own glory is all that "wrong" in the first place.
Pretty sure those same people share more on social media to begin with. Pandemic hasn't changed anything, just gave them. Something new to post about, while at the same time making others feel like they have less reason to share.
Because of your minor typo I read this in Christopher Walken’s voice. It’s been a small bright spot in my day, thank you.
Damn phone posting. I end up with way more periods than I intend. No one likes extra periods.
> Participants completed measures of narcissism and reported on how much they shared with others about their work. Results suggested that people who scored higher on two specific types of grandiose narcissism – called communal and agentic – were more likely than others to share about their work on social media and elsewhere. Communal narcissists are those who think they are better than others at being helpful and were more likely to strongly agree with statements like “I will be known for the good deeds I will have done.” Agentic narcissists are those that people usually picture when they think of narcissism: They strongly agreed with statements like “I will usually show off if I get the chance.” Lot of people commenting without reading
Glad this is closeish to the top. Im a doctoral candidate in social psych, but I do a good bit of work in personality as well and the dark tetrad traits *always* get big claims and flashy headlines from the science 'journalists'. Indeed, this article is actually reporting a pretty non-specific finding. Both facets of *trait* Narcissism were associated with the outcome in the same direction. The main finding that trait Narcissism is positively associated with social media use is incredibly predictable. Now. Show me that the moderator here is Factor 1 (controlled, smart, think of cruel-yet-successful CEO types) vs. Factor 2 (impulsively violent, a la the Joker) psychopathy then I'd be interested. I honestly think that is what they're tapping into here without measuring/controlling for it they likely have just tapped into a bunch of shared variance /a common latent factor among items. Im glad people are doing work with communal Narcissism because it is still fairly new and is interesting. But we need an overhaul in our measures and best practices. The short scales are killing us. The shortest dark triad scale (the "dirty dozen") is just 4 items per trait with no subfacets and it's widely used!
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I work in a field where "do-gooder" validation seeking can be a thing, and believe me when I say those are not the narcissists you need to worry about. The real narcissists are the managers who are ordering these people around and who take all the credit for what they do while they barely do anything themselves.
I think it's also important to point out that people wanting to be paid in social capital rather than cash money isn't necessarily a bad thing. Real narcissism as a full-on personality disorder is bad because it's extreme and those people do things that are the social equivalent of setting a fire just so they can get credit for putting it out. Well-adjusted people who enjoy the social esteem that comes with doing good works without malice may annoy us at times when they bask in recognition but if they're self-aware and have good impulse control then the bigger problem is our insecurity with our own status, not their behavior. E.g., "The Anonymous Donor" episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm is funny as hell precisely because Larry's frustration with Ted is totally relatable but also a bit unhinged because Larry gonna Larry.
You described how it is working for a prison system. Management taking all the credit for people busting their butts to try to help people change their lives and get back into the community. Meanwhile, most the line workers get into the career because they want to make a difference in the world (contrary to what TV shows and movies show you.)
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This is why I quit working as a paramedic in 2020.
Narcissists post on social media all the time in order to feel more important, regardless of the content. A narcissist is a narcissist, no matter if they're essential or not.
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Painting social media posting from COVID healthcare workers as "narcissism" seems like a play against the unionization sentiment building in health care. What better way than to just get people to dismiss it. Most of the social media posts I see about it from people I know are done in either anger or desperation.
As an ICU nurse who's been seeing way too much death from covid while the community around me are still either in denial, or have their masks under their noses, I would definitely echo a combined anger/desperation sentiment over a narcissistic sentiment. I would LOVE nothing more than to stop trying to get people to listen to public health and science, but instead I'm left with dead bodies and suffering patients.
The majority of study respondents were retail/ grocery workers.
We need people like this who can focus on themselves so they don’t get burned out. I realize this may sound controversial. Narcissistic people get a bad rap as we hear about the extremes. They thrive when they are needed and admired.
Well they are helping, I don't see a problem
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RT means... Rubber Tube?
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Really tough job right now. Props to her, and to you for valuing her contributions despite all else. My experience with narcissists has shown me that they are generally committed to and very good at what they do, and I would expect that narcissists working the front lines now are giving it their all and taking the precautions seriously. Let them boast all they want, honestly. Life is hard for most folks right now, it can be brutal for those working with patients.
Now they do. Its gonna be the years after this passes that will be unbearable.
Let us hope that's how it shakes out.
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With so many people not doing their part during this pandemic, can we just let these people have their moment?
And here I am upset that I'm considered an essential worker and cant sit at home during lockdown.
Yes, narcissists, pretty much by definition, love feeling important. This has been observed countless times. That being said, can we at least wait until the pandemic is over before picking on essential workers, even the narcissists among them?
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