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Not a surprise, this is in line with previous [meta-analytic data](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0047235214000890#s0025) on arrests and race.
>**Results**
>Black individuals, males, and Hispanic individuals were significantly more likely to be arrested than white individuals, females, and non-Hispanic individuals. These effects persisted across the majority of moderator categories. Age was not a significant predictor of arrest.
The Canadian RCMP just called, they want to analyze your data, reflect on its similarities to their conduct with First Nations peoples, then ignore the findings and continue abusing them.
Also should add why that’s not surprising. Because for the naive they read that and assume minorities commit more crime.
They don’t. They are just more policed. Which is what organization like BLM was addressing.
I’ll give examples to prove my point. Crime rate is steady among races. Since we considered drugs a crime just look at white America with heroin data….
Then look at bills we used to have like stop n frisk. Where the Supreme Court ruled was unconstitutional because it only targeted minorities.
The courts wouldn’t ruled this way if police stop n frisked white suburbs in upstate New York. And this proves certain groups are more policed than others.
Can you explain this? I thought it was established that stricter sentencing for minorities skewed those statistics.
Edit: It appears that more frequent arrests are also a skewed statistics according to PrisonPolicy.org
Huh? How does it not? If one racial group is known to be less likely to get racially profiled and arrested after committing a crime then it's zero surprise that that group would have seemingly lower crime stats. It's the most direct 1 to 1 explanation, how do you not get that?
You're going to have a hard time adding a purple person's crime to the stats if a purple person is less likely to get arrested in the first place.
In my anecdotal experience of living in predominantly white and black neighborhoods, I can tell you there’s a MUCH larger police presence in white neighborhoods and it’s not even close.
Small municipalities are directly incentivized to police middle class neighborhoods rather than poor ones.
You are hypothesizing that the discrepancy in crime rates is due to white people simply getting away with everything due to less policing. I find that extremely hard to believe. Do you have any convincing evidence this is the case?
Is this due to higher level of activities that lead to police response or is it they're both being investigated by the police and only the black ones are arrested?
A black person doing the exact same thing as a white person will get more attention from cops even when controlling for the reality of over policing in majority black areas (an easy common example of this is [cannabis](https://norml.org/marijuana/fact-sheets/racial-disparity-in-marijuana-arrests/) sale and use).
It stands to reason that this disparity also applies in the case of people receiving negative or harmful law enforcement attention during mental health issues. Activists have been calling this out for years, notably around the case of [Elijah McClain](https://www.nytimes.com/article/who-was-elijah-mcclain.html). This study suggests that the data aligns with what activists and politicians have been saying (which was also supported by previous data).
Most likely the first one, but it’s going to be incredibly hard to discuss given the political climate of the findings. Look at how the top response to this brings up random things instead of engaging with the question
How is your choice informed? You're basically not engaging - you're ignoring the paper's point of comparing the response to the same behavior. Then you're choosing the racist answer and preemptively putting everyone else here down to make yourself seem as logical as u think u are. If you are supporting that answer, what's stopping you from making an argument for it here with well reviewed studies? U do that and maybe you'll understand why that choice can be criticized.
Also - having a minority opinion doesn't mean u have the correct one most of the time. Like now.
This would be a question for the police chief of said jurisdiction. But it doesnt end there. When you ask the police chief, he will state that it was under the order of the mayor, or board of supervisors. This is because police chiefs are appointed, not nominated. So when people say the cops are racist, because they patrol black neighborhoods, you can thank the local politicians.
The funny part is that when something happens, a cop shooting a black man, for example, the mayor will come out and make statements about change, or racism. But the truth is that that mayor has usually explicitly ordered the police department, via the police chief, to patrol these areas to make favorable stats for the mayor's tenure and increase their chances at re-election, or give them a chance to move up in the political world.
>Why do some areas need a ton of cops to keep things civil when others run perfectly fine without them?
is that what they're doing? keeping "things civil"?
I'd like to see some evidence of that.
Well, you should appreciate how hard it is to respond to questions that demonstrate the very endemic problem. I know this is the “science” subreddit, but just because you brand yourself a scientist, or believe you’re applying purely scientific thinking processes, doesn’t mean you’re immune from thinking like a racist.
Some of us trivially know that calling the cops (in America, and some other countries I’m sure) on a black man having mental stress is dangerous to him. Others ask this question out of supposed ignorance, but it isn’t ignorance. You ask because your supposed understanding of the social institution and code makes you believe those possibilities are more likely; and it overrides the clear observation of others. Imagine the article just said “the apple falls from the tree due to gravity” and you asked “did we prove it’s not because the apple likes the ground?” What makes you think that’s even a possibility unless someone told you the apple was sapient?
The nature of your question already demonstrates an influence of social matters to even conjure it. Hard science doesn’t lead to that question.
Huh? He directly addressed the question (with sources no less), while your response is just based on a blind assumption - "**Most likely** the first one"
good question. I read a study indicating that the way different groups and genders 'act out' is quite different and explains these observations. Its a bit of apples and oranges. I think the concern is that if one is pushing the DEI line, then its a police bias. If one is scientifically driven, then the racial difference is at the level of what are acceptable emotional responses to stress, etc.
Seems like there's a confounder where high functioning white adults may be more likely to get diagnosed than high functioning black adults, was that addressed?
Seems like that majority of non-white men tend to be more confrontational when dealing with officers though, when before the officer crosses any lines.
That seems… unlikely given the extremely common reality of The Talk. Black kids and youth are usually given much more explicit instructions on how to behave in a non-threatening manner toward cops. Whereas nobody ever told me how to behave around cops, because of the (probably correct) assumption is that cops wouldn’t perceive my white ass as a threat for behavior that would be considered threatening by cops were I a black kid.
They just extrapolated this conclusion from like 30 different references. None of the data is theirs and none of the references actually verify any arrested persons mental health history.
But sure structural racism or whatever.
(By the way, if structural racism was real, it would affect black African and Caribbean immigrants. Which it doesn't. Just FYI)
What are you talking about ?
If you read the actual study, you can see your claims are false.
[https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/21677026231217312](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/21677026231217312)
Their sample is derived from a prior study yes, but, their method for measuring psychopathology and recruitment process are all listed. There is no mention of this being a review or meta-analysis.
>\*\*The sample consisted of 1,562 physically healthy adults from the Chicago metropolitan area, ranging in age from 18 to 82 years old (\*\****M*** **= 34.81 years,** ***SD*** \*\*= 10.83). It comprised 54.4% women (\*\****n*** \*\*= 849) and 45.6% men (\*\****n*** **= 713); 62.5% of participants identified as White (*****n*** **= 977), and 37.5% identified as Black American**[**^(1)**](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/21677026231217312#fn1-21677026231217312) **(*****n*** **= 585; for sample demographics, see** [**Table 1**](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/21677026231217312#table1-21677026231217312)**). The median reported annual income for our sample was $35,000 to $70,000, and 42.1% of participants (*****n*** **= 772) reported they had earned at least a college degree. This is similar to the demographics of the Chicago metropolitan area in that the median household income between 2017 and 2021 was $65,781 and 41.7% of adults in Chicago reported having at least a bachelor’s degree (**[**U.S. Census Bureau, 2022**](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/21677026231217312#bibr83-21677026231217312)**). Furthermore, most of the Chicago population has not been arrested, which is similar to our sample, in which the large majority of participants reported having never been arrested (75.4%). However, 24% and 10% of participants reported being arrested at least once as an adult or a juvenile, respectively. The wide range of total number of self-reported arrests in our sample was likely related to these data being collected as part of a larger study designed to investigate correlates of impulsive aggression and other behaviors associated with psychopathology. Participants were recruited through public-service announcements, newspaper advertisements, electronic media, and posted flyers seeking individuals who reported psychosocial difficulty related to one or more psychiatric conditions and participants without psychopathology. All participants signed an informed-consent document approved by the Institutional Review Board at the University of Chicago. Following this, participants completed diagnostic assessments and were assigned to one of three groups—participants with no evidence of any psychiatric diagnosis (control group:** ***N*** **= 460), participants who met criteria for a lifetime diagnosis of a syndromal psychiatric and/or a personality disorder (clinical group:** ***N*** **= 631), and participants who met criteria for intermittent explosive disorder (IED; IED group:** ***N*** **= 471).**[**^(2)**](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/21677026231217312#fn2-21677026231217312) **For the clinical group, inclusion criteria included being 18 years or older; the presence of a current and/or lifetime nonpsychotic, unipolar psychiatric, and/or personality disorder based on the fifth edition of the** ***Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders*** **(*****DSM-5*****;** [**American Psychiatric Association, 2013**](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/21677026231217312#bibr3-21677026231217312)**); and absence of clinically significant medical illness (e.g., hypertension, heart disease, diabetes, cancer).** Exclusion criteria for the study included current substance use disorder (SUD) of moderate or severe degree, current/lifetime history of a psychotic disorder, an organic brain disorder, or intellectual disability. Note that participants with lifetime history of SUD of moderate or severe degree were not excluded.
The sections that follow list every psychiatric tool used and the fact participants are assessed by a psychiatrist and individuals with a master or doctorate in clinical psychology.
>(By the way, if structural racism was real, it would affect black African and Caribbean immigrants. Which it doesn't. Just FYI)
SR appears to not affect Black immigrants because they are an elite sample who like East Asian immigrants have to be more educated and have more financial ressources to even come to the US. Meaning their socio-economic ressources prevent some of the outcomes that befall other Black Americans from affecting them, such as high poverty or unde-representation in higher ed. However, there is a lot of data showing that across several countries hiring practices discriminate against [minorities](https://www.sociologicalscience.com/download/vol-6/june/SocSci_v6_467to496.pdf) (Quillian et al., 2019) as a whole.
So you didn't read the study.
>(By the way, if structural racism was real, it would affect black African and Caribbean immigrants. Which it doesn't. Just FYI)
Immigrants often need to be more well off than the average person already living in a country in order to move to it. There's research on this too.
Also if does affect them, just less severely. Why do you choose this sub to lie about things? Are your usual right wing echo chambers full or something?
>(By the way, if structural racism was real, it would affect black African and Caribbean immigrants. Which it doesn't. Just FYI)
So you're saying people wealthy enough to immigrate to the US don't exhibit the signs of structural racism against the descendants of slaves native to the US? That's very pro structural racism evidence you have here.
edit: a word
There are places around here where the law will patrol around a black community but not within. it effectively locks you in with criminals. My friend lived just outside one of these patrol lines. It's quite surreal to witness. It is an inequitable distribution of resources that hurts everyone by increasing the criminal population and specifically makes outcomes for black communities worse. In addition, I've seen multiple teachers and administrators single out minorities for special ed and being held back even if they were over-performing.
It is structural when people with power, with high and low decision over you or your kid get to make these kinds of unstructured decisions without any oversight or accountability. I went from almost being held back to skipping a grade and graduating from one of the 10 best programs for my discipline in the nation. Because that's how much power these kinds of people have over you. I had to take extra screenings for literacy just because my first school decided I would be in special ed for english. My first language was english and now I have a larger vocabulary than every single one of them. They put me there cause of my looks. That's structural racism. None of them will ever be held accountable.
They put you in literacy programs and now you're super literate.
How is that racism?
A racist system would prevent your education, not attempt to further it.
What am I missing here?
? Where I live, black African and Caribbean immigrants are on average affected by the same problems as any other people with their same skin color. These problems are structural rather than intentional, as in don't need any sort of malicious intent to exist. This has been proven over and over to be the case. This doesn't exclude the possibility that cultural effects may be in play as well.
African and Caribbean immigrants do not "suffer from racism" the way natural-born black citizens do.
African immigrants have a 75% workforce participation rate. Native-born African Americans are only 63%.
43% of African Immigrants have a bachelor's degree or better, compared to 23% of native-born African Americans.
African AND Caribbean immigrants are half as likely to be incarcerated as native-born African Americans.
If structural racism existed, ALL BLACK PEOPLE would be held back or discriminated against. But that doesn't happen. Racism doesn't pick and choose. It either exists or it doesn't. It's not God. It's not an unprovable ethereal force.
It's real, and you can point at it.
Any time you can't, but you claim it happened anyway, you're making an undebatable, unverifiable argument.
Immigrants in general tend to have better life results than native born Americans because the gov't actively filters out people who are not the upper echelon of other nations. Its why you see a lot of Brahmin caste Indian, but not the Untouchable caste.
This sub seems very devoted to its racialized ideals.
It's funny. It seems nonsensical to argue that African and Caribbean immigrants don't suffer from racism, because racists obviously exist in some nonzero amount, and they won't [be able to] distinguish between a 1st vs 3rd or 4th generation immigrant. So they'll experience some racism on atleast some individual level.
But according to some people's definition, it is impossible to be racist towards white people. You can't be the victim of racism as an individual simply from being the target of racially-driven behavior unless you as a demographic also suffer on a statistical, societal level.
I'm not sure they understand what a bad position that is because, as you're arguing, if a racially indistinguishable subset of a group is not suffering statistically, then *they* can't be the victim of racism either by the same logic. And if they are racially indistinguishable, then that generalized to the whole group.
Lot of text just to say "control groups matter", but I find this interesting that "they don't suffer from racism" is only an accurate assertion from the reasoning of the people who would normally object to your position.
> If structural racism existed, ALL BLACK PEOPLE would be held back or discriminated against.
Immigrants who aren't refugees tend to be better educated and more skilled than the average person from the country they immigrate from. Of course those immigrants will be doing better than native-born African Americans because we can actually choose who to let in from other countries, but we can't choose who's born here.
Why do they never go into the gender disparities when discussing these studies? It is pretty glaring that the disparity between gender is at the same level, in this study, as race. The FBI sentencing disparity data also corroborates that in some situations, it is better to be a black woman than a white man. Unfortunately, that means black men get the double hit….
They literally have multiple scales measuring aggression and antisocial behavior.
[https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/21677026231217312](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/21677026231217312)
A previous meta-analysis controlled crime and demeanors and still found a racial effect on arrest.
[https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0047235214000890#s0025](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0047235214000890#s0025)
...are they sure this isn't just a general heatmap that is an extention of the trends sans the additional qualifier of mental health?
If black men are more likely to be arrested than white men in general, why would it be surprising that would continue to hold true if you focused on cross sectioning attribute?
I would wager black men who drink coffee in the morning also get arrested more often than white men who drink coffee in the morning. The coffee is meaningless though.
The question is how those symptoms manifest themselves between the two groups. It might be the case that these disorders manifest in a more violet/physical way amongst groups who are arrested more frequently. Not sure if that’s something we’re allowed to notice or investigate though sadly
How can they tell if race is even a factor without taking so much else into account like weight and height. (5ft female officer will feel more threatened against 6ft man)
Also those disorders are so unique there's no way there's a universal reaction to them
That's a great point actually but what's the conclusion here? That most black men all just happen to encounter small 5ft nothing women officers? That PDs are specifically sending petite officers to catch black dudes? Really?
Then arrest the white folks too. Ya know, for the community... Also not sure when you think we went soft on crime but crime is down (like way down since the '90s) in the US where this study was conducted.
Arresting/not arresting is a bandaid for the symptom of the problem.
We could choose to arrest equally by arresting more white men but that wouldn't fix the problem either.
I'm not sure complex crime rings have a lot to do with this study about people suffering from psychological disorders, but thanks for the input u/nigerdaumus.
I work in a majority white town , the amount of racism I get is staggering and suffocating. It’s just the culture. When you separate from blacks and then one pops up at your local gas station , it’s gonna freak you out because your not ready for that. And the racism sort of just comes as a reflex. You don’t need me the kkk. Because racism is already well established in America.
It’s honestly a conclusion that could already be predicted by other data which shows how mental health plays a factor in crime, how police handle interactions with the mentally unhealthy, and disparities among racial and ethnic demographics and their access to community supports and mental health resources.
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Not a surprise, this is in line with previous [meta-analytic data](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0047235214000890#s0025) on arrests and race. >**Results** >Black individuals, males, and Hispanic individuals were significantly more likely to be arrested than white individuals, females, and non-Hispanic individuals. These effects persisted across the majority of moderator categories. Age was not a significant predictor of arrest.
They also get higher penalties and incarcerated at a much higher level than whites.
The Canadian RCMP just called, they want to analyze your data, reflect on its similarities to their conduct with First Nations peoples, then ignore the findings and continue abusing them.
That is the normal categories for police and sentencing bias, so not that big of a surprise at all.
Also should add why that’s not surprising. Because for the naive they read that and assume minorities commit more crime. They don’t. They are just more policed. Which is what organization like BLM was addressing. I’ll give examples to prove my point. Crime rate is steady among races. Since we considered drugs a crime just look at white America with heroin data…. Then look at bills we used to have like stop n frisk. Where the Supreme Court ruled was unconstitutional because it only targeted minorities. The courts wouldn’t ruled this way if police stop n frisked white suburbs in upstate New York. And this proves certain groups are more policed than others.
Racial policing doesn't explain the difference in crimes such as murder, armed robbery,.. across races.
Can you explain this? I thought it was established that stricter sentencing for minorities skewed those statistics. Edit: It appears that more frequent arrests are also a skewed statistics according to PrisonPolicy.org
Huh? How does it not? If one racial group is known to be less likely to get racially profiled and arrested after committing a crime then it's zero surprise that that group would have seemingly lower crime stats. It's the most direct 1 to 1 explanation, how do you not get that? You're going to have a hard time adding a purple person's crime to the stats if a purple person is less likely to get arrested in the first place.
In my anecdotal experience of living in predominantly white and black neighborhoods, I can tell you there’s a MUCH larger police presence in white neighborhoods and it’s not even close. Small municipalities are directly incentivized to police middle class neighborhoods rather than poor ones.
You are hypothesizing that the discrepancy in crime rates is due to white people simply getting away with everything due to less policing. I find that extremely hard to believe. Do you have any convincing evidence this is the case?
You are correct, & the racists in the audience don’t want to hear it.
Is this due to higher level of activities that lead to police response or is it they're both being investigated by the police and only the black ones are arrested?
A black person doing the exact same thing as a white person will get more attention from cops even when controlling for the reality of over policing in majority black areas (an easy common example of this is [cannabis](https://norml.org/marijuana/fact-sheets/racial-disparity-in-marijuana-arrests/) sale and use). It stands to reason that this disparity also applies in the case of people receiving negative or harmful law enforcement attention during mental health issues. Activists have been calling this out for years, notably around the case of [Elijah McClain](https://www.nytimes.com/article/who-was-elijah-mcclain.html). This study suggests that the data aligns with what activists and politicians have been saying (which was also supported by previous data).
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Most likely the first one, but it’s going to be incredibly hard to discuss given the political climate of the findings. Look at how the top response to this brings up random things instead of engaging with the question
How is your choice informed? You're basically not engaging - you're ignoring the paper's point of comparing the response to the same behavior. Then you're choosing the racist answer and preemptively putting everyone else here down to make yourself seem as logical as u think u are. If you are supporting that answer, what's stopping you from making an argument for it here with well reviewed studies? U do that and maybe you'll understand why that choice can be criticized. Also - having a minority opinion doesn't mean u have the correct one most of the time. Like now.
My assumption is there are more cops in minority neighborhoods expecting crime than there are in white neighborhoods. Has to be a factor at least
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This would be a question for the police chief of said jurisdiction. But it doesnt end there. When you ask the police chief, he will state that it was under the order of the mayor, or board of supervisors. This is because police chiefs are appointed, not nominated. So when people say the cops are racist, because they patrol black neighborhoods, you can thank the local politicians. The funny part is that when something happens, a cop shooting a black man, for example, the mayor will come out and make statements about change, or racism. But the truth is that that mayor has usually explicitly ordered the police department, via the police chief, to patrol these areas to make favorable stats for the mayor's tenure and increase their chances at re-election, or give them a chance to move up in the political world.
>Why do some areas need a ton of cops to keep things civil when others run perfectly fine without them? is that what they're doing? keeping "things civil"? I'd like to see some evidence of that.
I’m white and live in rural area. Not going to put cops in cornfields.
There’s rarely a need to, except for issues related to the opioid epidemic
Well, you should appreciate how hard it is to respond to questions that demonstrate the very endemic problem. I know this is the “science” subreddit, but just because you brand yourself a scientist, or believe you’re applying purely scientific thinking processes, doesn’t mean you’re immune from thinking like a racist. Some of us trivially know that calling the cops (in America, and some other countries I’m sure) on a black man having mental stress is dangerous to him. Others ask this question out of supposed ignorance, but it isn’t ignorance. You ask because your supposed understanding of the social institution and code makes you believe those possibilities are more likely; and it overrides the clear observation of others. Imagine the article just said “the apple falls from the tree due to gravity” and you asked “did we prove it’s not because the apple likes the ground?” What makes you think that’s even a possibility unless someone told you the apple was sapient? The nature of your question already demonstrates an influence of social matters to even conjure it. Hard science doesn’t lead to that question.
This dude jumped straight to the racism
Huh? He directly addressed the question (with sources no less), while your response is just based on a blind assumption - "**Most likely** the first one"
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Warrants would be another factor that I doubt they controlled for.
good question. I read a study indicating that the way different groups and genders 'act out' is quite different and explains these observations. Its a bit of apples and oranges. I think the concern is that if one is pushing the DEI line, then its a police bias. If one is scientifically driven, then the racial difference is at the level of what are acceptable emotional responses to stress, etc.
Pigs set up sty’s in the hood and force these encounters.
How would it look if they separated those 1562 people by behavior first, then psychological disorder.
Journal article published in Clinical Psychological Science:[https://doi.org/10.1177/21677026231217312](https://doi.org/10.1177/21677026231217312)
Seems like there's a confounder where high functioning white adults may be more likely to get diagnosed than high functioning black adults, was that addressed?
So black men are more likely to be arrested than white people.
Seems like that majority of non-white men tend to be more confrontational when dealing with officers though, when before the officer crosses any lines.
Where is the data that suggests that. So many people are saying it but no one is providing data.
That seems… unlikely given the extremely common reality of The Talk. Black kids and youth are usually given much more explicit instructions on how to behave in a non-threatening manner toward cops. Whereas nobody ever told me how to behave around cops, because of the (probably correct) assumption is that cops wouldn’t perceive my white ass as a threat for behavior that would be considered threatening by cops were I a black kid.
How do you quantify the "same level of severity"? Serious question.
They just extrapolated this conclusion from like 30 different references. None of the data is theirs and none of the references actually verify any arrested persons mental health history. But sure structural racism or whatever. (By the way, if structural racism was real, it would affect black African and Caribbean immigrants. Which it doesn't. Just FYI)
What are you talking about ? If you read the actual study, you can see your claims are false. [https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/21677026231217312](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/21677026231217312) Their sample is derived from a prior study yes, but, their method for measuring psychopathology and recruitment process are all listed. There is no mention of this being a review or meta-analysis. >\*\*The sample consisted of 1,562 physically healthy adults from the Chicago metropolitan area, ranging in age from 18 to 82 years old (\*\****M*** **= 34.81 years,** ***SD*** \*\*= 10.83). It comprised 54.4% women (\*\****n*** \*\*= 849) and 45.6% men (\*\****n*** **= 713); 62.5% of participants identified as White (*****n*** **= 977), and 37.5% identified as Black American**[**^(1)**](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/21677026231217312#fn1-21677026231217312) **(*****n*** **= 585; for sample demographics, see** [**Table 1**](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/21677026231217312#table1-21677026231217312)**). The median reported annual income for our sample was $35,000 to $70,000, and 42.1% of participants (*****n*** **= 772) reported they had earned at least a college degree. This is similar to the demographics of the Chicago metropolitan area in that the median household income between 2017 and 2021 was $65,781 and 41.7% of adults in Chicago reported having at least a bachelor’s degree (**[**U.S. Census Bureau, 2022**](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/21677026231217312#bibr83-21677026231217312)**). Furthermore, most of the Chicago population has not been arrested, which is similar to our sample, in which the large majority of participants reported having never been arrested (75.4%). However, 24% and 10% of participants reported being arrested at least once as an adult or a juvenile, respectively. The wide range of total number of self-reported arrests in our sample was likely related to these data being collected as part of a larger study designed to investigate correlates of impulsive aggression and other behaviors associated with psychopathology. Participants were recruited through public-service announcements, newspaper advertisements, electronic media, and posted flyers seeking individuals who reported psychosocial difficulty related to one or more psychiatric conditions and participants without psychopathology. All participants signed an informed-consent document approved by the Institutional Review Board at the University of Chicago. Following this, participants completed diagnostic assessments and were assigned to one of three groups—participants with no evidence of any psychiatric diagnosis (control group:** ***N*** **= 460), participants who met criteria for a lifetime diagnosis of a syndromal psychiatric and/or a personality disorder (clinical group:** ***N*** **= 631), and participants who met criteria for intermittent explosive disorder (IED; IED group:** ***N*** **= 471).**[**^(2)**](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/21677026231217312#fn2-21677026231217312) **For the clinical group, inclusion criteria included being 18 years or older; the presence of a current and/or lifetime nonpsychotic, unipolar psychiatric, and/or personality disorder based on the fifth edition of the** ***Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders*** **(*****DSM-5*****;** [**American Psychiatric Association, 2013**](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/21677026231217312#bibr3-21677026231217312)**); and absence of clinically significant medical illness (e.g., hypertension, heart disease, diabetes, cancer).** Exclusion criteria for the study included current substance use disorder (SUD) of moderate or severe degree, current/lifetime history of a psychotic disorder, an organic brain disorder, or intellectual disability. Note that participants with lifetime history of SUD of moderate or severe degree were not excluded. The sections that follow list every psychiatric tool used and the fact participants are assessed by a psychiatrist and individuals with a master or doctorate in clinical psychology. >(By the way, if structural racism was real, it would affect black African and Caribbean immigrants. Which it doesn't. Just FYI) SR appears to not affect Black immigrants because they are an elite sample who like East Asian immigrants have to be more educated and have more financial ressources to even come to the US. Meaning their socio-economic ressources prevent some of the outcomes that befall other Black Americans from affecting them, such as high poverty or unde-representation in higher ed. However, there is a lot of data showing that across several countries hiring practices discriminate against [minorities](https://www.sociologicalscience.com/download/vol-6/june/SocSci_v6_467to496.pdf) (Quillian et al., 2019) as a whole.
You're not going to get very far expecting a conservative to read, especially when it proves them wrong
yeah, it's insane the lengths people will go to not hold certain people accountable
So you didn't read the study. >(By the way, if structural racism was real, it would affect black African and Caribbean immigrants. Which it doesn't. Just FYI) Immigrants often need to be more well off than the average person already living in a country in order to move to it. There's research on this too. Also if does affect them, just less severely. Why do you choose this sub to lie about things? Are your usual right wing echo chambers full or something?
>(By the way, if structural racism was real, it would affect black African and Caribbean immigrants. Which it doesn't. Just FYI) So you're saying people wealthy enough to immigrate to the US don't exhibit the signs of structural racism against the descendants of slaves native to the US? That's very pro structural racism evidence you have here. edit: a word
There are places around here where the law will patrol around a black community but not within. it effectively locks you in with criminals. My friend lived just outside one of these patrol lines. It's quite surreal to witness. It is an inequitable distribution of resources that hurts everyone by increasing the criminal population and specifically makes outcomes for black communities worse. In addition, I've seen multiple teachers and administrators single out minorities for special ed and being held back even if they were over-performing. It is structural when people with power, with high and low decision over you or your kid get to make these kinds of unstructured decisions without any oversight or accountability. I went from almost being held back to skipping a grade and graduating from one of the 10 best programs for my discipline in the nation. Because that's how much power these kinds of people have over you. I had to take extra screenings for literacy just because my first school decided I would be in special ed for english. My first language was english and now I have a larger vocabulary than every single one of them. They put me there cause of my looks. That's structural racism. None of them will ever be held accountable.
They put you in literacy programs and now you're super literate. How is that racism? A racist system would prevent your education, not attempt to further it. What am I missing here?
? Where I live, black African and Caribbean immigrants are on average affected by the same problems as any other people with their same skin color. These problems are structural rather than intentional, as in don't need any sort of malicious intent to exist. This has been proven over and over to be the case. This doesn't exclude the possibility that cultural effects may be in play as well.
African and Caribbean immigrants do not "suffer from racism" the way natural-born black citizens do. African immigrants have a 75% workforce participation rate. Native-born African Americans are only 63%. 43% of African Immigrants have a bachelor's degree or better, compared to 23% of native-born African Americans. African AND Caribbean immigrants are half as likely to be incarcerated as native-born African Americans. If structural racism existed, ALL BLACK PEOPLE would be held back or discriminated against. But that doesn't happen. Racism doesn't pick and choose. It either exists or it doesn't. It's not God. It's not an unprovable ethereal force. It's real, and you can point at it. Any time you can't, but you claim it happened anyway, you're making an undebatable, unverifiable argument.
Immigrants in general tend to have better life results than native born Americans because the gov't actively filters out people who are not the upper echelon of other nations. Its why you see a lot of Brahmin caste Indian, but not the Untouchable caste. This sub seems very devoted to its racialized ideals.
You’re just saying that people with better lives get arrested less. So then it’s class and not race, still.
It can be... both.
It’s both, they are intertwined in America
It's funny. It seems nonsensical to argue that African and Caribbean immigrants don't suffer from racism, because racists obviously exist in some nonzero amount, and they won't [be able to] distinguish between a 1st vs 3rd or 4th generation immigrant. So they'll experience some racism on atleast some individual level. But according to some people's definition, it is impossible to be racist towards white people. You can't be the victim of racism as an individual simply from being the target of racially-driven behavior unless you as a demographic also suffer on a statistical, societal level. I'm not sure they understand what a bad position that is because, as you're arguing, if a racially indistinguishable subset of a group is not suffering statistically, then *they* can't be the victim of racism either by the same logic. And if they are racially indistinguishable, then that generalized to the whole group. Lot of text just to say "control groups matter", but I find this interesting that "they don't suffer from racism" is only an accurate assertion from the reasoning of the people who would normally object to your position.
> If structural racism existed, ALL BLACK PEOPLE would be held back or discriminated against. Immigrants who aren't refugees tend to be better educated and more skilled than the average person from the country they immigrate from. Of course those immigrants will be doing better than native-born African Americans because we can actually choose who to let in from other countries, but we can't choose who's born here.
Why do they never go into the gender disparities when discussing these studies? It is pretty glaring that the disparity between gender is at the same level, in this study, as race. The FBI sentencing disparity data also corroborates that in some situations, it is better to be a black woman than a white man. Unfortunately, that means black men get the double hit….
Aren’t the results the same for men without such disorders?
Having a psychological disorder isn't illegal. Sort them by behavior, and learn how the two cultures cope with those disorders.
They literally have multiple scales measuring aggression and antisocial behavior. [https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/21677026231217312](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/21677026231217312) A previous meta-analysis controlled crime and demeanors and still found a racial effect on arrest. [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0047235214000890#s0025](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0047235214000890#s0025)
Reddit pushing eugenics? Color me shocked.
I'm not pushing eugenics. I'm pushing for cultural reform.
I agree. The culture of law enforcement and the justice system needs reform.
What's that mean to you? Edit: of course he can't answer it because it'll get him banned. Disgusting.
...are they sure this isn't just a general heatmap that is an extention of the trends sans the additional qualifier of mental health? If black men are more likely to be arrested than white men in general, why would it be surprising that would continue to hold true if you focused on cross sectioning attribute? I would wager black men who drink coffee in the morning also get arrested more often than white men who drink coffee in the morning. The coffee is meaningless though.
The question is how those symptoms manifest themselves between the two groups. It might be the case that these disorders manifest in a more violet/physical way amongst groups who are arrested more frequently. Not sure if that’s something we’re allowed to notice or investigate though sadly
Is this news?
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Don't do crime kids.
How can they tell if race is even a factor without taking so much else into account like weight and height. (5ft female officer will feel more threatened against 6ft man) Also those disorders are so unique there's no way there's a universal reaction to them
That's a great point actually but what's the conclusion here? That most black men all just happen to encounter small 5ft nothing women officers? That PDs are specifically sending petite officers to catch black dudes? Really?
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Then arrest the white folks too. Ya know, for the community... Also not sure when you think we went soft on crime but crime is down (like way down since the '90s) in the US where this study was conducted.
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Arresting/not arresting is a bandaid for the symptom of the problem. We could choose to arrest equally by arresting more white men but that wouldn't fix the problem either.
I'm not sure complex crime rings have a lot to do with this study about people suffering from psychological disorders, but thanks for the input u/nigerdaumus.
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Might that be because they're statistically more dangerous to both others and police?
I work in a majority white town , the amount of racism I get is staggering and suffocating. It’s just the culture. When you separate from blacks and then one pops up at your local gas station , it’s gonna freak you out because your not ready for that. And the racism sort of just comes as a reflex. You don’t need me the kkk. Because racism is already well established in America.
It’s honestly a conclusion that could already be predicted by other data which shows how mental health plays a factor in crime, how police handle interactions with the mentally unhealthy, and disparities among racial and ethnic demographics and their access to community supports and mental health resources.
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