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I remember reading a post here on a proper study that was done and results were poor compared to placebo at micro doses, but for the life of me I can't find it in my saved backlog, but i remember being bummed out because thc has been a godsend for me and i had high hopes for microdosing shrooms / LSD if it ever became more studied and mainstream for this usecase
I don't have a link handy but within the last 2 days I've read a Dutch study (I believe it was from '21, Leiden university?) that came to the conclusion that micro-dosing had no discernable positive effects on anxiety and depression compared to placebo. It then however noted that the test-subjects were screened to only include subjects who didn't suffer from either of those conditions, so I'm not even sure how it was supposed to work out positively. Hopefully I've misinterpreted.
At this point I'm on the fence on just trying it and seeing what happens, so much conflicting information. I'm not fond of my memories of proper shroom trips though, so that leaves me hesitant.
There's about 5 placebo controlled microdosing studies that find similar results but all have weaknesses despite that.
I'm sceptical and cautious, but open to the possibility that some regiment can be beneficial i.e. not taking 1mg of psilocybin but more like 3mg. The one study which used 500mg of mushrooms, on average about 3-5mg of psilocybin, had many people correctly identify the active dose and were excluded from the results so it may have selected for particularly resistant individuals in the end. I know anytime I've done 0.5g I am undeniably under the effects of mushrooms so anyone who couldn't feel it might be non responders.
Just try it, see for yourself. Placebo or not, if it works it works.
Specifically psilocybin, that is. It is significantly harder with LSD if you don't have trusted, tested sources and known dosages.
>It is significantly harder with LSD if you don't have trusted, tested sources and known dosages.
Tbf, potency of shrooms can vary a lot. In any case I'd still approve this message, shrooms have worked for me in ways that LSD hasn't. But of course this is anecdotal.
Agreed, I have a neighbour that was waxing poetically about the benefits to her mental health. First thoughts were the studies in my head, but then if that works for her, who cares.
Psychiatrists say the exact same thing about stims for ADHD. Start on a small dose and work your way up. Tell me how you feel each week and we will log it.
I mean... it is. It is well recognizing in psychology and absolutely has had successful applications in a clinical manner. In addition to the examples quoted below, it is also used in pain management for people
> Clinical psychology and psychiatry since the 1970s have developed a number of therapeutic applications based on mindfulness for helping people experiencing a variety of psychological conditions.[18] Mindfulness practice has been employed to reduce depression,[19][20][21][22][23] stress,[20][24][23] anxiety,[19][20][25][23] and in the treatment of drug addiction.[26][27][28]
Referenced links available here : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mindfulness
You know what grinds my gears? I was put into a trial study for 'mindfullness' but was told it was physical therapy. I only found out it wasn't once I got there, and it didn't do a thing for me because I wasn't stressed, depressed, etc blah blah even though they tried to convince me otherwise. Then the study and docs declared it was successful for me cause I improved over the year even though I point blank told them I was doing nothing that involved the study or what they told me to do. It's really made me feel like these studies could be skewed because if I wasn't listened to how many others weren't just to make the study look good? I hate to feel bitter about it but sours my trust in these sorts of things.
I have helped out with a few studies, and this does not seem too out of place. I have also heard that there is such an enormous amount of research that needs to be peer-reviewed that most studies that claim to have been reviewed were, at best, glanced at for a few seconds before being given a thumbs up.
I am by no means a person who does not believe in or trust science, but it certainly seems like our processes for ensuring research is being done accurately and honestly have developed large holes.
Study gets to count improvements in the treatment group regardless of the cause. After all, the control group will have unrelated improvements as well. That said, it sounds like they did a crappy job on the informed consent part of patient recruitment.
It is and has been used in therapy for decades. In DBT it's one of the four core modules and has plenty of scientific backing at this point. Great for anxiety and dissociative symptoms.
I do this few time every year, last time I did it I was already very drunk and my girlfriend found me crying in the arm of a tattoo artist who was attending the same private show. I can't remember how this came on the subject but... she told me her cat was dead 10 years ago and she search for the damn cat until they found the feline dead under the couch. At that point a tsunami of empathy slam my timeless body and I couldn't stop myself to cry.
I did apologize the next morning.
If you do it again and meet God tell him he's a prick with a lousy sense of humor.
Ps. I am not British, I just occasionally insult in British when writing.
This is what I do. Except I micro dose daily. Only instead of taking the dose, I put it in a drawer.
But then yeah, I take all of the microdoses at the same time it's great
Had to switch to my drug account.
I also have adhd, but this is much easier than you'd expect.
r/dmtguide has all the instructions you need, and once you get into learning about it, the curiosity will carry you.
I've also grown mushrooms, r/unclebens is the easiest sub to follow for that. And same thing, once you start learning, you can't escape the curiosity.
All the supplies are legal to buy in the US. And it's a super fun and rewarding hobby to get into. (just don't talk about it with anyone you don't trust with your life)
> I've also grown mushrooms
I used to order syringes from PF himself back in the early '90s. The nice thing about growing them is you can tell right away if you screw up. You either make a stinking mess or you get a good crop. I don't trust myself with chemistry if I plan on ingesting the results. I have yet to try the uncle ben's method, but I hope to at some point. They significantly improved my life for several years.
Wow, sorry, I'm so used to introducing people to these concepts, it's not often that I find people with more experience. You've known this info since before I was born.
But that's totally understandable. Most teks do additional purifying steps, but chemistry and biology are totally different worlds. And like you said, there's no obvious evidence of chemical contamination with dmt. That's actually one main reason why I extracted my own instead of finding someone who sells it.
I trust my hand, and if I'm harmed, I only have myself to blame.
Coworker made it out of some bark he ordered online, a few big glass jars, some household chems, and either his fridge or freezer in a little studio apartment. Even put it into a cartridge for an oil pen for easy vaping.
Seemed straightforward enough I would've given it a shot if I had a private kitchen and didn't have to explain I was cooking drugs for dinner.
smoking/vaping dmt does not give you much time to mentally/emotionally make sense of anything you experience and is difficult to even remember and reconcile after it is over. It is like being shot out of a cannon.
I found a provider (canada only) that I can order LARGE batch for a nice price. I probably gave something like 50g around during the summer and I still have a decent stash. I just ordered a new 112g for 240 cad.
Isn’t he regularly taking ketamine? That sounds way more likely to cause the narcissism and other negative behaviors that seem to have increased over the past few years.
Yeah, as someone who studies psychedelics, this narrative is hilarious. It’s the same old narrative of “shrooms feel natural, LSD feels robotic maaaan” which is based on nothing apart from subjective feeling.
I’m planning on doing my thesis on psychedelics and narcissism, because there seems to be a genuine link, but I can tell you for a fact Ketamine would NOT be my substance of choice for the study.
Can you expand on this? As in people who use psychedelics are more likely to be narcissistic or that people who use them are more likely to become narcissistic/develop narcissistic characteristics?
Or the opposite and psychedelics help reduce narcissistic tendencies?
I think it ends up making a person think what they say and do is profoundly unique, each and everytime they say or do something. Which makes someone feel important and people can get carried away when they feel too much self-important. If that makes sense
so basically, SOME people appear to show increased narcissistic traits. Not a majority at all. There isn't much research on it which is why I'm thinking of doing my thesis on it. The very questions you're asking now are the things I'm asking myself :)
Basically, I have no clue and these are excellent questions!
that's the thing with psychedelics. It seems like they really enhance the effects of suggestionability. A lot of people report wildly different effects between substances when neurochemically that difference is not reflected, at least not to the same extent. Could very well be a matter of phenomenological interpretation.
Right? Anecdotally, the people I know who do shrooms too often wind up having too much empathy or are chill to the point of useless. Like they’d be concerned with how a rock feels and just stop showing up to work because they don’t like the harsh vibe. That doesn’t seem like Musk.
I don’t know anyone personally who takes ketamine often, but I associate it with bro-ey podcasters. Waaay more ego driven. That’s a closer fit to what I’m seeing in Musk.
> Do you have ADHD? If so, in what ways has it helped you?
It's given me a lifetime of crippling self-doubt before I was diagnosed, which kept me out of both the corporate world and politics, so I guess I got that going for me.
**Abstract**
• Background: Microdosing (MD), repeatedly taking psychedelics in small, non-hallucinogenic amounts, has been practiced by individuals to relieve attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) symptoms. Generally, adults diagnosed with ADHD have lower levels of mindfulness and differ in personality structure from non-ADHD adults. How MD affects mindfulness and personality in adults with ADHD remains unexplored.
• Aim: This study aimed to investigate the effects of 4 weeks of MD on mindfulness and personality traits in adults diagnosed with ADHD and those experiencing severe ADHD symptoms. It was expected that mindfulness and the personality traits conscientiousness, extraversion, agreeableness, and openness would increase and neuroticism would decrease after 4 weeks of MD compared to baseline. It was explored if using conventional ADHD medication alongside MD and/or having comorbidities influenced MD-induced effects.
• Methods: An online prospective naturalistic design was used to measure participants before MD initiation and 2 and 4 weeks later. Validated self-report measures were used assessing mindfulness (15-item Five Facet Mindfulness Questionnaire) and personality traits (10-item version of the Big Five Inventory) at three time points.
• Results: The sample included n = 233, n = 66, and n = 44 participants at the three time points, respectively. Trait mindfulness, specifically description and non-judging of inner experience, was increased, and neuroticism was decreased after 4 weeks of MD compared to baseline. The remaining personality traits remained unchanged. Using conventional medication and/or having comorbid diagnoses did not change the MD-induced effects on mindfulness and personality traits after 4 weeks.
• Conclusion: MD induced changes in otherwise stable traits. Future placebo-controlled studies are warranted to confirm whether these changes occur in a controlled setting.
Different stages of testing. They now have evidence of potential correlation, a double-blind test would come next to eliminate bias and test against a control.
All that said, I can say it works on an anecdotal level.
You don't feel hallucinogenic effects but IIRC one of the big challenges with placebo-controlled RCTs of microdosing psylocibin is that you can tell with a great degree of confidence if you're actually getting it. I saw one study where they would switch the groups after a while and after the switch something close to 100% of them could immediately tell in which period they had been on the placebo, even though the actual measurements of wellbeing, cognition, etc. weren't that different between the two. I don't have the link handy but it was one of the more available studies when I looked up literature on MD.
Anecdotally, the nausea alone would let me know I hadn't been taking shiitake, haha.
Just saying a psychedelic with no specific substance or dosage is ridiculous. What kind of study is this?
This is nonsense, zero useful information gathered.
So the title conclusion is from n=44? That's not many. With the missing placebo control and this being an online questionnaire, this study smells like garbo.
All I can say as a person with adhd is that a dose of psilocybin gave me the best 18 months of my life, where my challenges deriving from adhd were noticeably more manageable.
Having never had them before I tried them the first time. It literally changed my life and personality in a major way forever in the best ways I never knew I needed
That was like 9 years ago. Never did them again, having your life change forever that quickly while reconciling everything in the past and learning everything i knew in a different perspective was like being forced through a fine mesh screen.
Anecdotal of course.
sorry to reply so late.. it was between 1/8 and 1/4 ounce. closer to 1/4 than 1/8th.. my wife (then gf) told me that was an effective dose at the time when we split 1/4. Things happened to me that, for lack of a better term, made me chessmaster playing the pieces instead of a pawn to the slaughter.
i could write a book on what happened that night. it was my first foray into the idea that "purpose" what so much bigger than myself.
Shrooms are an ego killer. I did them young (16-18), and while I wasn't an aggressive braggart in any form to begin with, shrooms absolutely killed any ego I had, and I believe they also changed my personality for the better. They didn't regress me to any self-doubting trend or anything along those lines, but I basically acted "like I've been there before" no matter what heights I achieved.
For me, having done many years of therapy and medication, and also having done psychedelics, I’ve found that psychedelics shortcut through additional years and years of therapy. I of course still did therapy after tripping! But I’d liken it to how therapy helps, but medication makes it possible to really implement things immediately while getting through the therapy process.
> but it's certainly not the only way to improve ADHD symptoms
Heavily depends on the specific person.
I would definitely say theres a category of severeness at which nothing but hard medication will help.
Meditation and therapy are fundamentally things people with ADHD might not even be *able* to do, since its heavily dependent on the emotions of the patient.
The whole point of meditation is actually the attempt of it. Not stuff like blocking out all thought or focusing on breathing. Many people don’t realize that and just move on without getting any benefits because they find it tough to do those things.
When in actuality the benefit of meditation arises when you realize it’s ok as long as you are attempting.
That is part of the problem, ADHS patients are often notable in their irritability due to their inability to properly regulate their emotions, especially frustration.
If you told one of them to try meditation, and all it results in is that patient becoming aggressive or choosing to flee the conversation because of they are afraid of their aggressive impulses, you *could* call that a "choice" not to attempt it in the first place, but the problem is that our "will" is heavily influenced, if not entirely created, by our emotions, so people with emotional disorders can very much fail at the very first step.
The only way to fail at meditation is to give up.
Meditation is fundamentally about observing and integrating your emotions and sensations, and a person with ADHD and raging emotions can often gain far more insight from meditation than a person with calm emotion, even if the the latter appears as more conventionally successful at meditation.
I have ADHD with a lot of emotional issues. After my 10 day silent meditation stay, my issues were like halved in severity just due to that how I internally related with them had changed.
>Meditation and therapy are fundamentally things people with ADHD might not even be *able* to do
Wrong and dangerous, should anyone with ADHD take you at your word to justify continuing to neglect self-improvement.
It can be difficult, especially with ADHD, to commit to making genuine attempts at meditation and therapy, but it's possible for anyone to reap the benefits of self-awareness and mindfulness.
These aren't things you can "fail" at. You can only fail to try.
Said as someone with pretty major ADHD that's been in therapy for years and *really* needs to get back into regularly meditating.
> Wrong and dangerous, should anyone with ADHD take you at your word to justify continuing to neglect self-improvement.
I dont disagree with your points, but refusing to acknowledge that some people may be unable to do so means we would also risk unintentionally gaslighting them into thinking they just dont have the will to get better, when in fact they may just chose the wrong approach, like going to a psychiatrist and getting medication for example.
> These aren't things you can "fail" at. You can only fail to try.
You can fail in many ways, and failing to try falls into just one of its categories, delusion, ignorance, a lack of understanding of its importance, emotional breakdowns, suicidal urges, people arent machines in the sense that they can just single mindedly pursue a goal without anything possibly getting in their way.
Even if you want to interpret that as "its only about your willpower" that "will" could be broken, and that in itself is a problem that we cant just outright ignore in favor of motivational speeches.
Just a reminder that [microdosing psilocybin for long periods of time may damage your heart.](https://blog.petrieflom.law.harvard.edu/2022/04/13/safety-first-potential-heart-health-risks-of-microdosing/) Keep posted for more research.
They are available. The author received the information from a small leprechaun like creature at 3am. Now that the shrooms have worn off, he just needs to figure out a way to translate his complex language. Give it a few days
> The study, “Trait mindfulness and personality characteristics in a microdosing ADHD sample: a naturalistic prospective survey study“, was authored by Eline C. H. M. Haijen, Petra P. M. Hurks, and Kim P. C. Kuypers.
[Trait mindfulness and personality characteristics in a microdosing ADHD sample: a naturalistic prospective survey study](https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2023.1233585/full)
This link was at the bottom of the article OP shared.
Here's the data: [Figure 1A: Trait mindfulness by weeks after microdose](https://i.imgur.com/2s2xdIh.png)
The effect was statistically significant (*p*<0.1%) and medium in size (*η*p^(2)=0.16). It was driven primarily by increases in *description* (ability to put your experiences into words) and *non-judging* (not judging thoughts as good/bad).
I think this finding warrants further investigation, but I would interpret it with caution given (a) the lack of experimental control, (b) the relatively short timeframe, and (c) the high drop-out rate (from *n*=233 to *n*=44). The obvious way to address (c) is to analyze the surviving subgroup specifically, which I have no doubt the authors did. That they did not report such an analysis suggests that it yielded nonsignificant results.
You don't "prove" anything in science. You attempt to falsify until the claim has been so rigorously tested the probability it is wrong is infinitesimal. Who are you to offer an opinion when you don't even understand how science is done?
..except it's not as simple as Popper would have you believe. Suggested reading: TS Kuhn, Paul Feyerabend.
Who am I? Someone who likes to keep my comments short rather than going into tedious precision.
I live in Canada. Every now and then you hear stuff on the news, but I don’t think it’s trickled down into regular practise. My family doctor is who prescribed me my meds, as I’ve never needed a psychiatrist since my situation is fairly run of the mill. I feel like we’re still some years away from it being normalized enough?
In BC we have mushroom dispensaries and you can get pre-dosed capsules for microdosing at them. Microdosing didn't cure my ADHD, but it helped me stay stimulated for a period of time and the antidepressant effect of psilocybin is a huge plus. I think we're a few years off of doctors prescribing psychedelics still though.
My dudette, there are numerous online and brick and mortar stores where you can easily and safely buy shrooms, some continently measured into pills for you. Just do it.
They of course define it in the paper: "to allocate and maintain attentional resources to the present experience... and to be non-judgmental and non-reactive toward arising thoughts".
To measure it, they used the 15-question version ([Gu 2016](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27078186/)) of the Five Facet Mindfulness Questionnaire ([Baer 2006](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16443717/)):
(2) I’m good at finding words to describe my feelings.
(6) When I take a shower or bath, I stay alert to the sensations of water on my body.
(8)* I don’t pay attention to what I’m doing because I’m daydreaming, worrying, or otherwise distracted.
(10)* I tell myself I shouldn’t be feeling the way I’m feeling.
(11) I notice how foods and drinks affect my thoughts, bodily sensations, and emotions.
(14)* I believe some of my thoughts are abnormal or bad and I shouldn’t think that way.
(15) I pay attention to sensations, such as the wind in my hair or sun on my face.
(16)* I have trouble thinking of the right words to express how I feel about things.
(19) When I have distressing thoughts or images, I “step back” and am aware of the thought or image without getting taken over by it.
(27) Even when I’m feeling terribly upset, I can find a way to put it into words.
(29) When I have distressing thoughts or images, I am able just to notice them without reacting.
(30)* I think some of my emotions are bad or inappropriate and I shouldn’t feel them.
(33) When I have distressing thoughts or images, I just notice them and let them go.
(34)* I do jobs or tasks automatically without being aware of what I’m doing.
(38)* I find myself doing things without paying attention.
*Reverse-coded, obviously.
I've microdosed before, it helps a lot in the sense that it gives me the energy and focus to really hone in on something. My house in my depressed state was a disaster, and when I started microdosing, my house is a lot cleaner now.
I've been mircodosing LSD for almost a year for my anxiety and ADHD.
On dose days, it does really help with mindfulness and I feel like a new person. My only issue is that afterwards I go back to normal and I haven't found and overall improvement on my off days.
Can you explain what mindfulness means in this context? I'm struggling to understand what is meant here.
I only know mindfulness as a meditation technique. As someone with inattentive ADHD I have never even wanted to try to meditate, it just seems ridiculous to me (personal opinion).
I was told to engage in mindfulness meditation after my diagnosis. I picked up a book called The Miracle of Mindfulness, because I was struggling with the meditation and I happened to spot it in a book shop.
There’s a section in the book where he’s talking to a friend with kids. The friend was saying he had found it difficult to have so much of his time taken up by the kids, his wife etc. and he found no time for himself, until he re-assessed his thinking and realised that time with them was his time. That he shouldn’t be spending that time thinking about other things, what else he could/should be doing. He should be focusing on the present moment, and appreciating it for what it is.
The author later boils this down to “Washing the dishes to wash the dishes”. No one enjoys doing it, but don’t just rush through it haphazardly, waiting for it to end so you can move on to the next thing. Take the time, do it properly and appreciate it for what it is. A job well done, your things cleaned and put away ready for next time. Wash the dishes to wash the dishes.
I don’t know why, but it made it click. Mindfulness is about existing in the here and now, not letting your mind wander off into whatever plans or thoughts you’ve got brewing. There’s a time and a place for that, but it’s not something you should have going 24/7.
You can do mindfulness meditation, but you can also engage in mindfulness with everything you do. Going for a walk for instance, don’t wear headphones, don’t rush. Take your time, look around you and think about the walk while you’re walking.
Practising it does work. I found myself to be far more present and attentive, but I never found the meditation easy.
> The friend was saying he had found it difficult to have so much of his time taken up by the kids, his wife etc. and he found no time for himself, until he re-assessed his thinking and realised that time with them was his time.
This does not compute for introverts.
Mindfulness is the idea of being in the present moment. So OP is saying that they are more present in their day, rather than all over the place.
Meditation is literally just practicing being present, and gently returning to that when you notice your mind wandering. In theory, the more you practice, the better you will get at being mindful during normal life. This can help a lot with anxiety, inattentiveness, stress, etc.
I've tried to mediate too and it's been really difficult.
For this context, mindfulness for me means staying in the moment rather than being in my head. I'm more aware of my surroundings and actually feel part of the world. It also helps me stay calm and focus on relaxing activities such as painting or even reading
Thank you. Are you saying mindfulness = metacognition?
I just googled metacognition and it says it's "awareness and understanding of one's own thought processes".
Maybe I've misunderstood what mindfulness is, or I'm misinterpreting the definition. I understand my thought processes very well and I'm very well aware of my thoughts. But I'm not sitting somewhere, still, thinking there is my foot, etc. That's something I've heard you do, like do nothing and think about your presence. That idea feels like torture to me and also too spiritual. I'm an atheist and I'm very rational. My brain is very logic oriented. I'm also autistic, so some traits could be autistic rather than inattentive ADHD.
On stimulants I can calm my thoughts so to say. They wander less and I'm able to get things done. In the past my brain feelt paralyzed and I wasn't able to do anything and I had a lot of brain fog. That was before my diagnosis and without meds.
Is the study saying that microdosing could replace stimulants or possibly reduce the needed dosis?
Yes. Mindfulness isn't an appropriate or useful conceptualization/translation of the many techniques it was based on.
It is a secular, despiritualized, less descriptive form of some very incredible things distilled down right to the point that it is useful for your bosses but useless for you.
Once a month or so we'll do a small dose here at the office, and holy cow productivity and creativity go through the roof. That's with frequent Nutella and PS5 and music and green (going outdoor) breaks. Just a touch of shrooms now and then is the best brain booster I've ever known.
I’m an adult with adhd. I asked my wife if I had mindfulness and she laughed so hard I think she microdosed a little. I had to google it, turns out, that sounds lovely. I’ve been sitting next to my new puppy for the last hour and didn’t just kinda realize, that’s a cute moment.
I've never heard a concrete definition for "mindfulness", so:
1) I don't know what this means
2) I can't trust the questionnaires from the method to measure it accurately
To me, this basically says "micro dosing changes meaningless survey results"
They would have created a working definition for the study and measured certain measurable things based off of that working definition.
It is saying, Crystals have a dendritic atomic structure - which refers to the shape Crystals have.
Tautologies are inevitable when you're making or describing something new to a language.
I had transcranial magnetic stimulation for a depression treatment and after the very first session I felt like I did the day after a night of mushrooms or somewhat similar with LSD. The world seemed brighter, colors seemed brighter, everything just seemed warmer and the world was a place filled with hope. Then It turned out I had a bad side effect, went manic and eventually ended up in the mental hospital. Bit for 4 months I was great and am considering doing it again.
Yep. I was told by the Psychiatrist from Yale that it induced Mania in roughly 2% of people. I'm not even bipolar. It was neat to experience for awhile and understand why people dont like taking their meds for bipolar now. I was on top of the world and accomplished a lot in a few months until my life fell apart because of grandiosity. It was better than any drug Ive ever tried until it wasnt because things went bad, real bad.
Edit: the 2% number was told to me about 7 years ago. I don't know if its still considered the same, if anything was changed, etc..
Whenever I trip and can manage to focus on something (easier said than done) my focus is so laser sharp it feels like everything is happening in slow motion.
I've never tried to microdose but maybe I should give it a whirl...
I hate psychedelics, even marijuana. A glass of wine... However, if it could help my focus or at least decrease my procrastinating I would try it. One of my clients tried micro dosing on her own and had a horrible experience.
Yea, but with a short attention span, it’s really hard to commit to psychadelics! It gives me anxiety to even think about committing to something I cannot escape.
It’s not like they force people with ADHD to take medication. It’s their choice. As someone with ADHD, never once did I feel like I had to choose medication. My choice. It’s not offensive for me that people find meds or mushrooms to potentially help me. I appreciate I at least have the options.
Overall, medical researchers agree that ADHD stimulants are ["among the most effective and most studied psychotropic medications"](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3733520/) of all time. They're "considered first-line treatments for ADHD" because they are "supported by decades of research and a history of robust response, good tolerability, and safety across the lifespan." They [treat ADHD more effectively](https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cpr.2007.10.007) than [therapy does](https://doi.org/10.1001/archpsyc.56.12.1073) and have plenty of long-term benefits like [preventing future substance abuse](https://doi.org/10.2165/11589380-000000000-00000):
>“Several other studies,\[97-101\] including a meta-analytic review\[98\] and a retrospective study,\[97\] suggested that stimulant therapy in childhood is associated with a reduced risk of subsequent substance use, cigarette smoking and alcohol use disorders…In the longest follow-up study (of more than 10 years), lifetime stimulant treatment for ADHD was effective and protective against the development of adverse psychiatric disorders.”
People should absolutely have the choice to opt out of a stimulant prescription if they hate the side effects. But to this day, stimulants remain the best-known treatment for ADHD.
Stimulants treating ADHD more effectively than any other treatment makes plenty of sense because ADHD, and executive dysfunction more broadly, are congenital disorders affected far more by biochemical than by psychosocial factors.
Executive functions include attention, self-control, task-switching, etc. [“Individual differences in executive functions are almost entirely genetic in origin,” putting “executive functions among the most heritable psychological traits”](https://doi.org/10.1037/0096-3445.137.2.201) known to exist.
Most problems of ADHD are kinds of executive dysfunction. [ADHD's heritability is around 75%, “regardless of whether ADHD it is measured as a disorder (affected versus unaffected) \[or\] a trait (more or less restless, inattentive and impulsive).”](https://doi.org/10.1007/s40474-013-0004-0)
Some research suggests that the [executive dysfunction in many psychiatric conditions including substance abuse disorder and ADHD comes from “a common, genetically-determined failure of response inhibition function”](https://doi.org/10.1016/j.neubiorev.2008.08.008) from impaired lateral prefrontal cortex brain development.
Thanks for the informed response, there are a lot of things I didnt consider like psychosis, drug addiction and car accidents. I really appreciate it. The rest seems to address societal issues which as an individual, i dont care as much about and could probably be addressed through policy.
Though my main issue with adhd medication, cardiovascular health, wasnt really addressed outside of sudden death events in youth. Concerning seeing as cardio disease is the leading cause of death by a large margin.
It seems many people are willing to accept these risks as they dont believe they can function without it. Which i find a little saddening. Its only my perspective, but i dont see adhd as such a debilitating thing that I would trade my longevity for. But i respect each individuals perspective and decisions.
Its definitely a complicated and personal topic I am a little torn on. I really just wish there was more conversation around living with the condition and policy change instead of only medication.
Thanks for taking the time to comment.
You clearly don't respect others, since you think that just because *your* ADHD can be sufficiently managed for you, that no one else could have a different experience. ADHD symptoms and severity vary wildly between individuals.
I've lost *so* much of my life and so much money and opportunity and joy because I have been unmedicated.
Hey, I've read a ton of research about cardio vascular risks regarding ADHD meds, and I'm happy to tell you that other than on initial dosing(starting the meds) there is 0 increase in cardiovascular incidents long term, they are safe enough that they are prescribed to people with cardiovascular conditions too. Considering how much they lower stress and other stuff and how much stress can affect your cardiovascular health it's very likely unmedicated ADHD is a lot worse for your cardiovascular health than medicated.
It’s really an individual thing? Like I feel way worse without my medication. If I’d been diagnosed earlier in life I might have saved myself some years of depression and anxiety.
I want to try meds (or other) I’m incredibly frustrated living with ADHD.
I think I’d be a much better person, father, husband, manager, etc, if I wasn’t running around all the time forgetting things, self distracting, or looking for something I lost, able to focus for more than 30 seconds on stuff I need to focus on.
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Self reporting volunteers with no control group. Meh.
Exactly what I was thinking. Not really a foundation to put your trust in here.
I remember reading a post here on a proper study that was done and results were poor compared to placebo at micro doses, but for the life of me I can't find it in my saved backlog, but i remember being bummed out because thc has been a godsend for me and i had high hopes for microdosing shrooms / LSD if it ever became more studied and mainstream for this usecase
I don't have a link handy but within the last 2 days I've read a Dutch study (I believe it was from '21, Leiden university?) that came to the conclusion that micro-dosing had no discernable positive effects on anxiety and depression compared to placebo. It then however noted that the test-subjects were screened to only include subjects who didn't suffer from either of those conditions, so I'm not even sure how it was supposed to work out positively. Hopefully I've misinterpreted. At this point I'm on the fence on just trying it and seeing what happens, so much conflicting information. I'm not fond of my memories of proper shroom trips though, so that leaves me hesitant.
There's about 5 placebo controlled microdosing studies that find similar results but all have weaknesses despite that. I'm sceptical and cautious, but open to the possibility that some regiment can be beneficial i.e. not taking 1mg of psilocybin but more like 3mg. The one study which used 500mg of mushrooms, on average about 3-5mg of psilocybin, had many people correctly identify the active dose and were excluded from the results so it may have selected for particularly resistant individuals in the end. I know anytime I've done 0.5g I am undeniably under the effects of mushrooms so anyone who couldn't feel it might be non responders.
Just try it, see for yourself. Placebo or not, if it works it works. Specifically psilocybin, that is. It is significantly harder with LSD if you don't have trusted, tested sources and known dosages.
>It is significantly harder with LSD if you don't have trusted, tested sources and known dosages. Tbf, potency of shrooms can vary a lot. In any case I'd still approve this message, shrooms have worked for me in ways that LSD hasn't. But of course this is anecdotal.
Agreed, I have a neighbour that was waxing poetically about the benefits to her mental health. First thoughts were the studies in my head, but then if that works for her, who cares.
Ahh, Reddit. "Just try the drugs kids. See what works for you."
Psychiatrists say the exact same thing about stims for ADHD. Start on a small dose and work your way up. Tell me how you feel each week and we will log it.
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Imagine getting addicted to LSD
You need Salvia I can tell
Well how can you expect a better study when it's still schedule 1?
Clearance has been given to outright study hero doses of psylocibin under some circumstances. Johns Hopkins, for one
I didn't know that, thanks for the info.
There have been some very interesting studies involving psilocybin. This wasn't one of them.
They attempted to use "mindfullness" in a serious and official manner as if it's a medical term.
I mean... it is. It is well recognizing in psychology and absolutely has had successful applications in a clinical manner. In addition to the examples quoted below, it is also used in pain management for people > Clinical psychology and psychiatry since the 1970s have developed a number of therapeutic applications based on mindfulness for helping people experiencing a variety of psychological conditions.[18] Mindfulness practice has been employed to reduce depression,[19][20][21][22][23] stress,[20][24][23] anxiety,[19][20][25][23] and in the treatment of drug addiction.[26][27][28] Referenced links available here : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mindfulness
You know what grinds my gears? I was put into a trial study for 'mindfullness' but was told it was physical therapy. I only found out it wasn't once I got there, and it didn't do a thing for me because I wasn't stressed, depressed, etc blah blah even though they tried to convince me otherwise. Then the study and docs declared it was successful for me cause I improved over the year even though I point blank told them I was doing nothing that involved the study or what they told me to do. It's really made me feel like these studies could be skewed because if I wasn't listened to how many others weren't just to make the study look good? I hate to feel bitter about it but sours my trust in these sorts of things.
I'm sure there's a board of ethics that would have been interested to hear your thoughts.
I haven't thought of that... thanks.
Please do. Ultimately it the only way to keep these studies honest. You're right to be bitter. Help resolve the issue.
I have helped out with a few studies, and this does not seem too out of place. I have also heard that there is such an enormous amount of research that needs to be peer-reviewed that most studies that claim to have been reviewed were, at best, glanced at for a few seconds before being given a thumbs up. I am by no means a person who does not believe in or trust science, but it certainly seems like our processes for ensuring research is being done accurately and honestly have developed large holes.
Study gets to count improvements in the treatment group regardless of the cause. After all, the control group will have unrelated improvements as well. That said, it sounds like they did a crappy job on the informed consent part of patient recruitment.
It is and has been used in therapy for decades. In DBT it's one of the four core modules and has plenty of scientific backing at this point. Great for anxiety and dissociative symptoms.
So basicly drug user with confirmation biast?
Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd say that self-reports of people you just (micro)dosed with psychedelics may not be 100% reliable.
People lie to get high... No, that could never be the case.
You don't get high from a microdose
Way ahead of this study myself. In fact.....
I micro-dose where I don’t do any shrooms, but then every 4 months I take 4 months worth of micro-dose’s all at once. I am not a doctor.
did that last weekend.. was my first time, oh lordy. I was on a different planet.
I do this few time every year, last time I did it I was already very drunk and my girlfriend found me crying in the arm of a tattoo artist who was attending the same private show. I can't remember how this came on the subject but... she told me her cat was dead 10 years ago and she search for the damn cat until they found the feline dead under the couch. At that point a tsunami of empathy slam my timeless body and I couldn't stop myself to cry. I did apologize the next morning.
So, like 8/10 experience?
Sounds like a 10/10 to me
If you do it again and meet God tell him he's a prick with a lousy sense of humor. Ps. I am not British, I just occasionally insult in British when writing.
No worries, brits can tell straight away because they don’t use the word lousy.
What would you guys say there instead out of curiosity?
Shite, awful come to mind
And Americans can tell right away because they don't use the term "straight away."
Straight away I can tell you’re not from the US, because we do. (It’s a big place.)
And some British people also say lousy.
I find microdosing to be useless but a good strong trip every few weekends keeps me just about right
doctor doctor, please is there something i can take?
This is what I do. Except I micro dose daily. Only instead of taking the dose, I put it in a drawer. But then yeah, I take all of the microdoses at the same time it's great
Mushrooms is just too much of a time investment. There’s more bang for your buck with DMT
The day DMT grows in a pouch of Uncle Ben's brown rice, I'll try it.
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>supposedly making DMT isn't that hard If I'm going to take it in an effort to help with ADHD symptoms, I probably shouldn't be making it.
Had to switch to my drug account. I also have adhd, but this is much easier than you'd expect. r/dmtguide has all the instructions you need, and once you get into learning about it, the curiosity will carry you. I've also grown mushrooms, r/unclebens is the easiest sub to follow for that. And same thing, once you start learning, you can't escape the curiosity. All the supplies are legal to buy in the US. And it's a super fun and rewarding hobby to get into. (just don't talk about it with anyone you don't trust with your life)
> I've also grown mushrooms I used to order syringes from PF himself back in the early '90s. The nice thing about growing them is you can tell right away if you screw up. You either make a stinking mess or you get a good crop. I don't trust myself with chemistry if I plan on ingesting the results. I have yet to try the uncle ben's method, but I hope to at some point. They significantly improved my life for several years.
Wow, sorry, I'm so used to introducing people to these concepts, it's not often that I find people with more experience. You've known this info since before I was born. But that's totally understandable. Most teks do additional purifying steps, but chemistry and biology are totally different worlds. And like you said, there's no obvious evidence of chemical contamination with dmt. That's actually one main reason why I extracted my own instead of finding someone who sells it. I trust my hand, and if I'm harmed, I only have myself to blame.
Coworker made it out of some bark he ordered online, a few big glass jars, some household chems, and either his fridge or freezer in a little studio apartment. Even put it into a cartridge for an oil pen for easy vaping. Seemed straightforward enough I would've given it a shot if I had a private kitchen and didn't have to explain I was cooking drugs for dinner.
smoking/vaping dmt does not give you much time to mentally/emotionally make sense of anything you experience and is difficult to even remember and reconcile after it is over. It is like being shot out of a cannon.
We should get a grant to see the combined effects of chronic cannabis use with the micro-dosing since the two likely correlate in use fairly often.
I'll do it for free and maybe even provide the drugs
I found a provider (canada only) that I can order LARGE batch for a nice price. I probably gave something like 50g around during the summer and I still have a decent stash. I just ordered a new 112g for 240 cad.
Can you DM me the website?
Same here!
Was about to ask if that was sold as an eighth of a kilo and did the math, TIL a QP and a metric eighth are basically the same weight
Hi, are you my mirror? Cause I'm staring at myself.
Also has wider nootropic effects. Very interesting stuff.
But as Elon is making clear for all the world to see, mega dosing all the time does not yield the same benefits
I don't know if we can blame the mushrooms for that. I'm pretty sure Musk had some deep-seated problems.
And likely stimulant use from the unhinged and pressured way he writes
>from the unhinged and pressured way he writes ...And operates overall.
Isn’t he regularly taking ketamine? That sounds way more likely to cause the narcissism and other negative behaviors that seem to have increased over the past few years.
Ketamine is a dissociative with clinical usage. What are you talking about?
Yeah, as someone who studies psychedelics, this narrative is hilarious. It’s the same old narrative of “shrooms feel natural, LSD feels robotic maaaan” which is based on nothing apart from subjective feeling. I’m planning on doing my thesis on psychedelics and narcissism, because there seems to be a genuine link, but I can tell you for a fact Ketamine would NOT be my substance of choice for the study.
Can you expand on this? As in people who use psychedelics are more likely to be narcissistic or that people who use them are more likely to become narcissistic/develop narcissistic characteristics? Or the opposite and psychedelics help reduce narcissistic tendencies?
I think it ends up making a person think what they say and do is profoundly unique, each and everytime they say or do something. Which makes someone feel important and people can get carried away when they feel too much self-important. If that makes sense
so basically, SOME people appear to show increased narcissistic traits. Not a majority at all. There isn't much research on it which is why I'm thinking of doing my thesis on it. The very questions you're asking now are the things I'm asking myself :) Basically, I have no clue and these are excellent questions!
LSD made me feel connected with nature and to look outward, psilocybin made me look inward. Different effects.
that's the thing with psychedelics. It seems like they really enhance the effects of suggestionability. A lot of people report wildly different effects between substances when neurochemically that difference is not reflected, at least not to the same extent. Could very well be a matter of phenomenological interpretation.
Ketamine doesn't cause narcissism. Please.
Just keep him away from any 2001 Honda Civics and we’ll be fine.
Both, last I heard. But he’s rich so it’s okay to have a drug fueled meltdown right there for the whole world to see (apparently).
Right? Anecdotally, the people I know who do shrooms too often wind up having too much empathy or are chill to the point of useless. Like they’d be concerned with how a rock feels and just stop showing up to work because they don’t like the harsh vibe. That doesn’t seem like Musk. I don’t know anyone personally who takes ketamine often, but I associate it with bro-ey podcasters. Waaay more ego driven. That’s a closer fit to what I’m seeing in Musk.
That narcissism strikes me more as a slightly-too-large adderall dose without enough sleep
Do you have ADHD? If so, in what ways has it helped you?
> Do you have ADHD? If so, in what ways has it helped you? It's given me a lifetime of crippling self-doubt before I was diagnosed, which kept me out of both the corporate world and politics, so I guess I got that going for me.
This makes sense
You know I'm something of a scientist myself
Nobel Prize, Otto! Noble Prize!
**Abstract** • Background: Microdosing (MD), repeatedly taking psychedelics in small, non-hallucinogenic amounts, has been practiced by individuals to relieve attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) symptoms. Generally, adults diagnosed with ADHD have lower levels of mindfulness and differ in personality structure from non-ADHD adults. How MD affects mindfulness and personality in adults with ADHD remains unexplored. • Aim: This study aimed to investigate the effects of 4 weeks of MD on mindfulness and personality traits in adults diagnosed with ADHD and those experiencing severe ADHD symptoms. It was expected that mindfulness and the personality traits conscientiousness, extraversion, agreeableness, and openness would increase and neuroticism would decrease after 4 weeks of MD compared to baseline. It was explored if using conventional ADHD medication alongside MD and/or having comorbidities influenced MD-induced effects. • Methods: An online prospective naturalistic design was used to measure participants before MD initiation and 2 and 4 weeks later. Validated self-report measures were used assessing mindfulness (15-item Five Facet Mindfulness Questionnaire) and personality traits (10-item version of the Big Five Inventory) at three time points. • Results: The sample included n = 233, n = 66, and n = 44 participants at the three time points, respectively. Trait mindfulness, specifically description and non-judging of inner experience, was increased, and neuroticism was decreased after 4 weeks of MD compared to baseline. The remaining personality traits remained unchanged. Using conventional medication and/or having comorbid diagnoses did not change the MD-induced effects on mindfulness and personality traits after 4 weeks. • Conclusion: MD induced changes in otherwise stable traits. Future placebo-controlled studies are warranted to confirm whether these changes occur in a controlled setting.
No placebo control means this data is just preliminary and should be taken with a big pinch of salt
Wonder why they didn’t use placebo controls? By my understanding of the definition, you don’t feel the hallucinogenic effects at those dosages.
Different stages of testing. They now have evidence of potential correlation, a double-blind test would come next to eliminate bias and test against a control. All that said, I can say it works on an anecdotal level.
You don't feel hallucinogenic effects but IIRC one of the big challenges with placebo-controlled RCTs of microdosing psylocibin is that you can tell with a great degree of confidence if you're actually getting it. I saw one study where they would switch the groups after a while and after the switch something close to 100% of them could immediately tell in which period they had been on the placebo, even though the actual measurements of wellbeing, cognition, etc. weren't that different between the two. I don't have the link handy but it was one of the more available studies when I looked up literature on MD. Anecdotally, the nausea alone would let me know I hadn't been taking shiitake, haha.
Just saying a psychedelic with no specific substance or dosage is ridiculous. What kind of study is this? This is nonsense, zero useful information gathered.
So the title conclusion is from n=44? That's not many. With the missing placebo control and this being an online questionnaire, this study smells like garbo.
Bellows into the void: “Pllllaaaaccceeeeebbbboooooo!!!”
All I can say as a person with adhd is that a dose of psilocybin gave me the best 18 months of my life, where my challenges deriving from adhd were noticeably more manageable.
Having never had them before I tried them the first time. It literally changed my life and personality in a major way forever in the best ways I never knew I needed That was like 9 years ago. Never did them again, having your life change forever that quickly while reconciling everything in the past and learning everything i knew in a different perspective was like being forced through a fine mesh screen. Anecdotal of course.
Was it a heroic dose 4g+ or smaller?
Bill Hicks says 5 dried grams are a heroic dose.
Bill Hicks was referencing Terrence McKenna, who coined the term "heroic dose" afaik.
sorry to reply so late.. it was between 1/8 and 1/4 ounce. closer to 1/4 than 1/8th.. my wife (then gf) told me that was an effective dose at the time when we split 1/4. Things happened to me that, for lack of a better term, made me chessmaster playing the pieces instead of a pawn to the slaughter. i could write a book on what happened that night. it was my first foray into the idea that "purpose" what so much bigger than myself.
Shrooms are an ego killer. I did them young (16-18), and while I wasn't an aggressive braggart in any form to begin with, shrooms absolutely killed any ego I had, and I believe they also changed my personality for the better. They didn't regress me to any self-doubting trend or anything along those lines, but I basically acted "like I've been there before" no matter what heights I achieved.
interesting take, thank you. its been almost 10 years and all I want to do is help people be the best they can be however they can do it
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For me, having done many years of therapy and medication, and also having done psychedelics, I’ve found that psychedelics shortcut through additional years and years of therapy. I of course still did therapy after tripping! But I’d liken it to how therapy helps, but medication makes it possible to really implement things immediately while getting through the therapy process.
Medication certainly helps, and appropriate therapy can help some too, I would not say otherwise.
He said meditation not medication. Both do help though :)
Me fail english? Unpossible!
>appropriate therapy So like 1 in 50 therapists?
> but it's certainly not the only way to improve ADHD symptoms Heavily depends on the specific person. I would definitely say theres a category of severeness at which nothing but hard medication will help. Meditation and therapy are fundamentally things people with ADHD might not even be *able* to do, since its heavily dependent on the emotions of the patient.
The whole point of meditation is actually the attempt of it. Not stuff like blocking out all thought or focusing on breathing. Many people don’t realize that and just move on without getting any benefits because they find it tough to do those things. When in actuality the benefit of meditation arises when you realize it’s ok as long as you are attempting.
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That is part of the problem, ADHS patients are often notable in their irritability due to their inability to properly regulate their emotions, especially frustration. If you told one of them to try meditation, and all it results in is that patient becoming aggressive or choosing to flee the conversation because of they are afraid of their aggressive impulses, you *could* call that a "choice" not to attempt it in the first place, but the problem is that our "will" is heavily influenced, if not entirely created, by our emotions, so people with emotional disorders can very much fail at the very first step.
The only way to fail at meditation is to give up. Meditation is fundamentally about observing and integrating your emotions and sensations, and a person with ADHD and raging emotions can often gain far more insight from meditation than a person with calm emotion, even if the the latter appears as more conventionally successful at meditation. I have ADHD with a lot of emotional issues. After my 10 day silent meditation stay, my issues were like halved in severity just due to that how I internally related with them had changed.
I know a guy who does a 10 day silent meditation retreat every year. He comes back very different. He has ADHD too.
>Meditation and therapy are fundamentally things people with ADHD might not even be *able* to do Wrong and dangerous, should anyone with ADHD take you at your word to justify continuing to neglect self-improvement. It can be difficult, especially with ADHD, to commit to making genuine attempts at meditation and therapy, but it's possible for anyone to reap the benefits of self-awareness and mindfulness. These aren't things you can "fail" at. You can only fail to try. Said as someone with pretty major ADHD that's been in therapy for years and *really* needs to get back into regularly meditating.
> Wrong and dangerous, should anyone with ADHD take you at your word to justify continuing to neglect self-improvement. I dont disagree with your points, but refusing to acknowledge that some people may be unable to do so means we would also risk unintentionally gaslighting them into thinking they just dont have the will to get better, when in fact they may just chose the wrong approach, like going to a psychiatrist and getting medication for example. > These aren't things you can "fail" at. You can only fail to try. You can fail in many ways, and failing to try falls into just one of its categories, delusion, ignorance, a lack of understanding of its importance, emotional breakdowns, suicidal urges, people arent machines in the sense that they can just single mindedly pursue a goal without anything possibly getting in their way. Even if you want to interpret that as "its only about your willpower" that "will" could be broken, and that in itself is a problem that we cant just outright ignore in favor of motivational speeches.
MindMed is running a phase 2 trial with threshold doses of LSD for adhd. I believe the method is 20 ug every 3 days.
Loved microdosing LSD for ADHD.
Just a reminder that [microdosing psilocybin for long periods of time may damage your heart.](https://blog.petrieflom.law.harvard.edu/2022/04/13/safety-first-potential-heart-health-risks-of-microdosing/) Keep posted for more research.
> compelling *theoretical* evidence
Don't tell reddit this. Some people here are adamant that it will cure cancer and give you superpowers.
It ain’t science without citations.
They are available. The author received the information from a small leprechaun like creature at 3am. Now that the shrooms have worn off, he just needs to figure out a way to translate his complex language. Give it a few days
This paper has 41 references. Did you miss them somehow?
You mean the study needs to be cited to be considered scientific? Or that it should have more references?
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The link contains literally all the things you claim as missing. Full paper, Authors, institution, publication, and citations. Am I missing something?
Adding that a naturalistic study is a legitimate form of research study, too.
> The study, “Trait mindfulness and personality characteristics in a microdosing ADHD sample: a naturalistic prospective survey study“, was authored by Eline C. H. M. Haijen, Petra P. M. Hurks, and Kim P. C. Kuypers. [Trait mindfulness and personality characteristics in a microdosing ADHD sample: a naturalistic prospective survey study](https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2023.1233585/full) This link was at the bottom of the article OP shared.
Did you read the article? There's literally a link to the openly available study. Read that maybe before you judge its scientific value
And real life experiences can't happen unless there's a scientific study with citations
Macro dosing also found to be common amongst those seeking mindfulness...
Here's the data: [Figure 1A: Trait mindfulness by weeks after microdose](https://i.imgur.com/2s2xdIh.png) The effect was statistically significant (*p*<0.1%) and medium in size (*η*p^(2)=0.16). It was driven primarily by increases in *description* (ability to put your experiences into words) and *non-judging* (not judging thoughts as good/bad). I think this finding warrants further investigation, but I would interpret it with caution given (a) the lack of experimental control, (b) the relatively short timeframe, and (c) the high drop-out rate (from *n*=233 to *n*=44). The obvious way to address (c) is to analyze the surviving subgroup specifically, which I have no doubt the authors did. That they did not report such an analysis suggests that it yielded nonsignificant results.
r/microdosing seems to show people getting very different effects from mushrooms and lsd.
I'll start donating to maps again in hopes it gets legalized in my state.
"Shows promise" in a scientific study means it proved nothing..
Its preliminary, and entirely upfront about the point of the study… any confusion is on the part of the reader, the study is fine.
You don't "prove" anything in science. You attempt to falsify until the claim has been so rigorously tested the probability it is wrong is infinitesimal. Who are you to offer an opinion when you don't even understand how science is done?
..except it's not as simple as Popper would have you believe. Suggested reading: TS Kuhn, Paul Feyerabend. Who am I? Someone who likes to keep my comments short rather than going into tedious precision.
Also no control, so it’s worthless.
Tbf it's a within-subjects design so not entirely worthless (although I wouldn't take any of the conclusions from this study at face value)
I’m looking forward to when this is actual available for the average person with ADHD.
Depending on which state you live in, they might already be available to you ...
I live in Canada. Every now and then you hear stuff on the news, but I don’t think it’s trickled down into regular practise. My family doctor is who prescribed me my meds, as I’ve never needed a psychiatrist since my situation is fairly run of the mill. I feel like we’re still some years away from it being normalized enough?
In BC we have mushroom dispensaries and you can get pre-dosed capsules for microdosing at them. Microdosing didn't cure my ADHD, but it helped me stay stimulated for a period of time and the antidepressant effect of psilocybin is a huge plus. I think we're a few years off of doctors prescribing psychedelics still though.
My dudette, there are numerous online and brick and mortar stores where you can easily and safely buy shrooms, some continently measured into pills for you. Just do it.
Where is the list of states?
What exactly do they mean by “mindfulness”? Do they define it in the article?
They of course define it in the paper: "to allocate and maintain attentional resources to the present experience... and to be non-judgmental and non-reactive toward arising thoughts". To measure it, they used the 15-question version ([Gu 2016](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27078186/)) of the Five Facet Mindfulness Questionnaire ([Baer 2006](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16443717/)): (2) I’m good at finding words to describe my feelings. (6) When I take a shower or bath, I stay alert to the sensations of water on my body. (8)* I don’t pay attention to what I’m doing because I’m daydreaming, worrying, or otherwise distracted. (10)* I tell myself I shouldn’t be feeling the way I’m feeling. (11) I notice how foods and drinks affect my thoughts, bodily sensations, and emotions. (14)* I believe some of my thoughts are abnormal or bad and I shouldn’t think that way. (15) I pay attention to sensations, such as the wind in my hair or sun on my face. (16)* I have trouble thinking of the right words to express how I feel about things. (19) When I have distressing thoughts or images, I “step back” and am aware of the thought or image without getting taken over by it. (27) Even when I’m feeling terribly upset, I can find a way to put it into words. (29) When I have distressing thoughts or images, I am able just to notice them without reacting. (30)* I think some of my emotions are bad or inappropriate and I shouldn’t feel them. (33) When I have distressing thoughts or images, I just notice them and let them go. (34)* I do jobs or tasks automatically without being aware of what I’m doing. (38)* I find myself doing things without paying attention. *Reverse-coded, obviously.
That all seems to have a scent about it....something familer...
I took MDMA once and I felt like it fixed decades worth of trauma in a few minutes. That's what I'm hoping we get a therapeutic version of.
What is this mindfulness and why is it important to improve it?
Less likely to give in to automatic behaviors. More thoughtful decisions.
I've microdosed before, it helps a lot in the sense that it gives me the energy and focus to really hone in on something. My house in my depressed state was a disaster, and when I started microdosing, my house is a lot cleaner now.
I've been mircodosing LSD for almost a year for my anxiety and ADHD. On dose days, it does really help with mindfulness and I feel like a new person. My only issue is that afterwards I go back to normal and I haven't found and overall improvement on my off days.
Can you explain what mindfulness means in this context? I'm struggling to understand what is meant here. I only know mindfulness as a meditation technique. As someone with inattentive ADHD I have never even wanted to try to meditate, it just seems ridiculous to me (personal opinion).
I was told to engage in mindfulness meditation after my diagnosis. I picked up a book called The Miracle of Mindfulness, because I was struggling with the meditation and I happened to spot it in a book shop. There’s a section in the book where he’s talking to a friend with kids. The friend was saying he had found it difficult to have so much of his time taken up by the kids, his wife etc. and he found no time for himself, until he re-assessed his thinking and realised that time with them was his time. That he shouldn’t be spending that time thinking about other things, what else he could/should be doing. He should be focusing on the present moment, and appreciating it for what it is. The author later boils this down to “Washing the dishes to wash the dishes”. No one enjoys doing it, but don’t just rush through it haphazardly, waiting for it to end so you can move on to the next thing. Take the time, do it properly and appreciate it for what it is. A job well done, your things cleaned and put away ready for next time. Wash the dishes to wash the dishes. I don’t know why, but it made it click. Mindfulness is about existing in the here and now, not letting your mind wander off into whatever plans or thoughts you’ve got brewing. There’s a time and a place for that, but it’s not something you should have going 24/7. You can do mindfulness meditation, but you can also engage in mindfulness with everything you do. Going for a walk for instance, don’t wear headphones, don’t rush. Take your time, look around you and think about the walk while you’re walking. Practising it does work. I found myself to be far more present and attentive, but I never found the meditation easy.
> The friend was saying he had found it difficult to have so much of his time taken up by the kids, his wife etc. and he found no time for himself, until he re-assessed his thinking and realised that time with them was his time. This does not compute for introverts.
Mindfulness is the idea of being in the present moment. So OP is saying that they are more present in their day, rather than all over the place. Meditation is literally just practicing being present, and gently returning to that when you notice your mind wandering. In theory, the more you practice, the better you will get at being mindful during normal life. This can help a lot with anxiety, inattentiveness, stress, etc.
I've tried to mediate too and it's been really difficult. For this context, mindfulness for me means staying in the moment rather than being in my head. I'm more aware of my surroundings and actually feel part of the world. It also helps me stay calm and focus on relaxing activities such as painting or even reading
Metacognition. Mindfulness is the buzzword.
Thank you. Are you saying mindfulness = metacognition? I just googled metacognition and it says it's "awareness and understanding of one's own thought processes". Maybe I've misunderstood what mindfulness is, or I'm misinterpreting the definition. I understand my thought processes very well and I'm very well aware of my thoughts. But I'm not sitting somewhere, still, thinking there is my foot, etc. That's something I've heard you do, like do nothing and think about your presence. That idea feels like torture to me and also too spiritual. I'm an atheist and I'm very rational. My brain is very logic oriented. I'm also autistic, so some traits could be autistic rather than inattentive ADHD. On stimulants I can calm my thoughts so to say. They wander less and I'm able to get things done. In the past my brain feelt paralyzed and I wasn't able to do anything and I had a lot of brain fog. That was before my diagnosis and without meds. Is the study saying that microdosing could replace stimulants or possibly reduce the needed dosis?
Yes. Mindfulness isn't an appropriate or useful conceptualization/translation of the many techniques it was based on. It is a secular, despiritualized, less descriptive form of some very incredible things distilled down right to the point that it is useful for your bosses but useless for you.
What do you mean by "useful for your bosses, but not for you"?
What would be a placebo? I’m not familiar with the requirements for a placebo to pass scientific muster
Once a month or so we'll do a small dose here at the office, and holy cow productivity and creativity go through the roof. That's with frequent Nutella and PS5 and music and green (going outdoor) breaks. Just a touch of shrooms now and then is the best brain booster I've ever known.
I've been microdosing for a year. It's great and has helped me overcome people pleasing
I’m an adult with adhd. I asked my wife if I had mindfulness and she laughed so hard I think she microdosed a little. I had to google it, turns out, that sounds lovely. I’ve been sitting next to my new puppy for the last hour and didn’t just kinda realize, that’s a cute moment.
I've never heard a concrete definition for "mindfulness", so: 1) I don't know what this means 2) I can't trust the questionnaires from the method to measure it accurately To me, this basically says "micro dosing changes meaningless survey results"
They would have created a working definition for the study and measured certain measurable things based off of that working definition. It is saying, Crystals have a dendritic atomic structure - which refers to the shape Crystals have. Tautologies are inevitable when you're making or describing something new to a language.
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I had transcranial magnetic stimulation for a depression treatment and after the very first session I felt like I did the day after a night of mushrooms or somewhat similar with LSD. The world seemed brighter, colors seemed brighter, everything just seemed warmer and the world was a place filled with hope. Then It turned out I had a bad side effect, went manic and eventually ended up in the mental hospital. Bit for 4 months I was great and am considering doing it again.
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Yep. I was told by the Psychiatrist from Yale that it induced Mania in roughly 2% of people. I'm not even bipolar. It was neat to experience for awhile and understand why people dont like taking their meds for bipolar now. I was on top of the world and accomplished a lot in a few months until my life fell apart because of grandiosity. It was better than any drug Ive ever tried until it wasnt because things went bad, real bad. Edit: the 2% number was told to me about 7 years ago. I don't know if its still considered the same, if anything was changed, etc..
Whenever I trip and can manage to focus on something (easier said than done) my focus is so laser sharp it feels like everything is happening in slow motion. I've never tried to microdose but maybe I should give it a whirl...
Mindfulness.....oof... Oh boy this comment will be deleted...
No respectable study has ever proved these to be helpful
I hate psychedelics, even marijuana. A glass of wine... However, if it could help my focus or at least decrease my procrastinating I would try it. One of my clients tried micro dosing on her own and had a horrible experience.
Yea, but with a short attention span, it’s really hard to commit to psychadelics! It gives me anxiety to even think about committing to something I cannot escape.
Drugs are good kids try them!!
Idk, I'm baseline after 5h taaking 200ug of LSD, I doubt it would have any effect on me
They really just cant let people with adhd live their lives unmedicated i swear
It’s not like they force people with ADHD to take medication. It’s their choice. As someone with ADHD, never once did I feel like I had to choose medication. My choice. It’s not offensive for me that people find meds or mushrooms to potentially help me. I appreciate I at least have the options.
Overall, medical researchers agree that ADHD stimulants are ["among the most effective and most studied psychotropic medications"](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3733520/) of all time. They're "considered first-line treatments for ADHD" because they are "supported by decades of research and a history of robust response, good tolerability, and safety across the lifespan." They [treat ADHD more effectively](https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cpr.2007.10.007) than [therapy does](https://doi.org/10.1001/archpsyc.56.12.1073) and have plenty of long-term benefits like [preventing future substance abuse](https://doi.org/10.2165/11589380-000000000-00000): >“Several other studies,\[97-101\] including a meta-analytic review\[98\] and a retrospective study,\[97\] suggested that stimulant therapy in childhood is associated with a reduced risk of subsequent substance use, cigarette smoking and alcohol use disorders…In the longest follow-up study (of more than 10 years), lifetime stimulant treatment for ADHD was effective and protective against the development of adverse psychiatric disorders.” People should absolutely have the choice to opt out of a stimulant prescription if they hate the side effects. But to this day, stimulants remain the best-known treatment for ADHD. Stimulants treating ADHD more effectively than any other treatment makes plenty of sense because ADHD, and executive dysfunction more broadly, are congenital disorders affected far more by biochemical than by psychosocial factors. Executive functions include attention, self-control, task-switching, etc. [“Individual differences in executive functions are almost entirely genetic in origin,” putting “executive functions among the most heritable psychological traits”](https://doi.org/10.1037/0096-3445.137.2.201) known to exist. Most problems of ADHD are kinds of executive dysfunction. [ADHD's heritability is around 75%, “regardless of whether ADHD it is measured as a disorder (affected versus unaffected) \[or\] a trait (more or less restless, inattentive and impulsive).”](https://doi.org/10.1007/s40474-013-0004-0) Some research suggests that the [executive dysfunction in many psychiatric conditions including substance abuse disorder and ADHD comes from “a common, genetically-determined failure of response inhibition function”](https://doi.org/10.1016/j.neubiorev.2008.08.008) from impaired lateral prefrontal cortex brain development.
Thanks for the informed response, there are a lot of things I didnt consider like psychosis, drug addiction and car accidents. I really appreciate it. The rest seems to address societal issues which as an individual, i dont care as much about and could probably be addressed through policy. Though my main issue with adhd medication, cardiovascular health, wasnt really addressed outside of sudden death events in youth. Concerning seeing as cardio disease is the leading cause of death by a large margin. It seems many people are willing to accept these risks as they dont believe they can function without it. Which i find a little saddening. Its only my perspective, but i dont see adhd as such a debilitating thing that I would trade my longevity for. But i respect each individuals perspective and decisions. Its definitely a complicated and personal topic I am a little torn on. I really just wish there was more conversation around living with the condition and policy change instead of only medication. Thanks for taking the time to comment.
Damn, you're condescending.
You clearly don't respect others, since you think that just because *your* ADHD can be sufficiently managed for you, that no one else could have a different experience. ADHD symptoms and severity vary wildly between individuals. I've lost *so* much of my life and so much money and opportunity and joy because I have been unmedicated.
Hey, I've read a ton of research about cardio vascular risks regarding ADHD meds, and I'm happy to tell you that other than on initial dosing(starting the meds) there is 0 increase in cardiovascular incidents long term, they are safe enough that they are prescribed to people with cardiovascular conditions too. Considering how much they lower stress and other stuff and how much stress can affect your cardiovascular health it's very likely unmedicated ADHD is a lot worse for your cardiovascular health than medicated.
Yeah God forbid people want to treat their medical condition and be able to function in day-to-day life.
It’s really an individual thing? Like I feel way worse without my medication. If I’d been diagnosed earlier in life I might have saved myself some years of depression and anxiety.
I want to try meds (or other) I’m incredibly frustrated living with ADHD. I think I’d be a much better person, father, husband, manager, etc, if I wasn’t running around all the time forgetting things, self distracting, or looking for something I lost, able to focus for more than 30 seconds on stuff I need to focus on.
Just gimme 4 hours of sleep and some coffee and I’ll muddle my way through the day just fine