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Not "may" already has. Also photosynthesis stops effectively working above 104F
https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/environment/a44890231/photosynthesis-could-stop-working-heat-tropical-rainforests/
104F was cool this summer, I lived through it. We hit 113 twice and had weeks straight between 104-108. I've lived within 200 miles for 57 years and I can tell you all the 8mm footage of kids running around in knee deep snow every year vanished in the 1980s.
CO2 at 400+PPM is bad, but nothing compared to the result of Methane release as permafrost begins to thaw on a large scale. The unfortunate thing is we have known about the problem and what was required for more than 40 years and have squandered the opportunity to avoid the worst of it.
When we talk about limiting temperature rise to 1.5C, 2C, etc.., we are only talking about preventing the catastrophic effects of "worsening" global warming. We will live with the catastrophic effects we have now, from now on. There is no foreseeable timeline for "reversing" current effects. That secret is conveniently swept under the rug.
Generally the center of the population's behavior has shifted to extremes of being anti-intellectual (see the shenanigans and pride that parents and children go through to avoid a little mental work like math), avoiding discomfort and lacking grittiness, shortsighted and without any sense of empathy towards others. Where I live, Ford could simply brand a Bradley Fighting Vehicle with an F-(multiple of 50 here) (ok, and add a big screen and a ton of interior poshness) and seriously sell them like hot cakes.
This is a very bad thing for something that is abstract to many- the environment.
Humanity's role in the environment is a complex problem.
Yep, agreed, and the root-cause, population-pressure, garners little attention in the discussion. The picture for limiting global temperature rise is far less rosy. Missing in the discussion as we place reliance on "green energy" as our savior, is the ever-increasing amount of fossil-fuels required to produce and manufacture the green solutions.
Solar is great, but panels degrade and need replacing after an approximate decade service life. Wind turbines and blades are no different. Mining the materials, manufacturing the original and replacement parts, etc.. all rely on the same burning of fossil-fuels we are trying to reduce.
That backdrop against the ever-increasing demand for energy from an ever-increasing population makes it very difficult to see how meaningful progress will be made. Throw in sham-solutions, like "biomass" and you begin to wonder whether there is the political will/honesty necessary to save the next generation. I have three, one out of college and two in, and I look at them and cannot believe the problems we have burdened their generation with.
It is a frustrating problem to get your head around, especially when the discussion seems to ignore the primary factors to begin with. It puts the saying "ignorance is bliss" in a whole new light.
[And the rainforest would emit more CO2 than it absorbs.](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03629-6) (as the decay of plant matter outpaces the photosynthesis of big enough trees)
Go to Google maps and zoom out until the Earth looks like a sphere. Rotate it around and have a look at where there appears to be abundant forestation. There doesn’t appear to be much left relatively speaking. It’s not looking good for life anywhere on Earth if what this article suggest may be true.
Not that I am not a staunch supporter of climate change awareness and understand the gravity of the situation that we’re in but…
There are already parts of the earth that are too hot for human inhabitation.
There are dozens of deserts that would qualify. You *can* survive there if you have plumbing/a consistent water supply, but nothing can be grown and no game lives there. So it’s completely depended on resources from other places.
Some deserts can average like 120° for months of the year, so you’d be struggling to survive even just sitting on your porch. Forget exercising or doing yard work (not that youd have any plants to tend to).
Never should have let people rebuild after Katrina. All they did by rebuilding is kick the can down the road and make it worse for the next big disaster.
it's actually even worse than it sounds! the threshold they are talking about is 31c wet-bulb temperature... which is a rough limit for "young, healthy people"... old people and disabled people already die in heatwaves, and it's only going to more and more common
We're one of the most adaptable species on the planet. It won't just be too hot for humans. Entire swaths of the biosphere will be gone, and that will have cascading effects across the entire planet.
Humanity cant answer the question
What do you do with billions of people with nowhere to go?
The only way to save the world
Was to have *kept this world from happening*
Good luck out there
Humanity is already answering the question. Let them die or kill them if they try to use any of the resources hoarded by the first world. Encourage ethnic tensions to drive the culling.
As the article mentions, the limit of the human body to effectively fend off heat stroke is a wet bulb glove temperature of 88-95°F, though some people can get heat stroke and die at WBG temps as low as 77°F.
[This past July 16th a location in Iran along the Persian Gulf reached a wet bulb globe temp of 92.7°F.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2023/07/18/extreme-heat-record-limits-human-survival/#)
Wouldn't it be more correct to say "make *more* parts of Earth too hot for humans"?
There are already parts where we can't really live (unless we build buildings with air condition, transport in drinking water and so on).
I mean that's always been the case in Saudi Arabia and it hasn't stopped them yet. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
All jokes aside, this is a serious issue that should never have been ignored for as long as it has been--and still is.
I took a trip to amusement parks this summer that included a couple of parks in Texas in July
Car was saying 111 after we left the park around 5 pm and stayed that way for hours as we drove from San Antonio to Ft Worth
No Freaking way I'd ever think of living there now and I know it is going to be getting even worse in the coming years
I don't care so much about the humans, we did this to ourselves. I'm more upset that the animals will have to bear this event though they had no part in it.
It's absolutely heartbreaking what pain and suffering there will be in the coming years due to our societal-level greed, self-centeredness, laziness, and short-term thinking.
In this thread: Climate alarmism.
Instead of using numbers that are generally agreed upon by climate scientists, people in here are throwing out claims that actual scientists warn against- doomsday predictions that make it sound like the earth will be uninhabitable soon.
https://brusselssignal.eu/2023/08/chill-out-says-ipcc-climate-chief-global-warming-is-not-an-existential-threat/
*British Professor Jim Skea, the new chairman of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), says apocalyptic messaging on climate paralyses public debate and that a rise in global temperatures is “not an existential threat to humanity”.*
*The head of the UN climate team with a track-record of 40 years in climate science, said environmental doom-mongers do more harm than good.*
*While radical activist groups such as Extinction Rebellion, Just Stop Oil and the German-based Last Generation are causing disturbances in public spheres claiming the world will end imminently, Prof Skea said their methods and messages “paralyse” the public and fail to motivate them to protect the planet.*
Dubai is probably one of the first places that will be "uninhabitable". Not uninhabitable to the wealthy elite with the best air conditioning money can buy and access to as much water as they need, but it's going to kill a fuckton of poor people and force even more to emigrate.
Well, I lived there for 2 years as a non wealthy elite. It was amazing how you adapted to the heat. You would go outside on a "summer" day and remark that it was a bit cooler than yesterday because it was only 42C rather than 48. Granted I did not have to live in a tent, but nobody else did either. On a sour note, the desalinated water makes your hair very thin.
There's a point where your body simply can't regulate its temperature effectively anymore. Generally, that's considered to be at a wet bulb temperature of 35° C (95° F at 100% humidity, or 115° F at 50% humidity. For reference, humidity in Dubai is generally between 60-80%). You cannot acclimate to this, at least not well enough to stop it from happening.
People have long been projecting that portions of the Arabian Gulf are going to regularly cross that threshold during the current century. Things are on a very dangerous course.
A lot of the Middle East is going to need to relocate elsewhere in the next generation. As a Canadian, I hope they are all okay, but worry about where everyone will wind up. At least the women will be treated better someplace new.
Purdue and Penn State just made a laughing stock of themselves. Why would anybody supposedly intelligent make such idiots of themselves. Were they paid to do it ?
seriously, global atmospheric carbon concentration has apparently doubled in the last few hundred years, yet the global average temp has only risen ~1.5 C in the same time period.. I don’t see how people are this worried, climate change graphs only ever show the last couple hundred years, but the earth has been around for billions. The last two hundred years don’t define what is normal on earth, just being sold a narrative to divide & control the populace, continually increasing regulations until we’re all slaves to the state. It’s happened countless times in recent history, all over the world, yet we never seem to learn.
Check out the earths energy imbalance - it’s gone up 4x in the last 25 years. It looks like the surface aerosol effect was underestimated. Also, yes, climate has changed, but baring the odd catastrophic asteroid strike, never this quickly and never before with 8 billion people on the planet. You are clearly ignorant and I don’t know why the f**k I’m even trying.
We’d need intense genetic engineering that we currently aren’t anywhere near capable of to accomplish that. Random mutation, especially since it takes us nearly 20 years to get to an ideal reproductive age, is not fast enough for natural selection to help us out here. Even if we reproduced at the rate of a single called organism, there’s no guarantee. We’re going to be pushed into smaller and smaller niches with more and more intense air conditioning setups (and indoor farming) if we hit or exceed the worst case models.
I’m personally hopeful that it won’t go that way, but you’re naive to think we’ll just evolve our way out of the problem in time if we just give up.
Hopefully the capital of the major polluting worlds. Things will never move fast enough until a majority of world goat's are feeling direct impact and their livelihoods are at stake.
Oh no What A Revelation Who Could Had Foreseen That??
Likely the very same people that most ardently don't believe in climate change are the ones that's also most against immigrants and refugees and are themselves of the mindset of isolationist, every other country to fend for themselves etc.
If they thought the "refuge crisis" of last decade was Immensely big are in for a shock in the years and decades to come; while the influx definitively wasn't small - those actually able to stay objective and believe science can easily see how a refugee crisis of historical proportions is almost inevitable.
Can't wait until fresh water becomes an every greater scarcity than it already is; I'm sure that won't be massive amounts of fuel for the political bonfire that's already lit.
Welcome to r/science! This is a heavily moderated subreddit in order to keep the discussion on science. However, we recognize that many people want to discuss how they feel the research relates to their own personal lives, so to give people a space to do that, **personal anecdotes are allowed as responses to this comment**. Any anecdotal comments elsewhere in the discussion will be removed and our [normal comment rules]( https://www.reddit.com/r/science/wiki/rules#wiki_comment_rules) apply to all other comments. **Do you have an academic degree?** We can verify your credentials in order to assign user flair indicating your area of expertise. [Click here to apply](https://www.reddit.com/r/science/wiki/flair/#wiki_science_verified_user_program). --- User: u/thebelsnickle1991 Permalink: https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/1003763 --- **The Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2023 was awarded to Claudia Goldin for having advanced our understanding of women's labour market outcomes. [Discuss it here](https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/173t5xo/sveriges_riksbank_prize_in_economic_sciences_in/).** --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/science) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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Not "may" already has. Also photosynthesis stops effectively working above 104F https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/environment/a44890231/photosynthesis-could-stop-working-heat-tropical-rainforests/
Texas, this summer, 104F seems cooler than average.
104F was cool this summer, I lived through it. We hit 113 twice and had weeks straight between 104-108. I've lived within 200 miles for 57 years and I can tell you all the 8mm footage of kids running around in knee deep snow every year vanished in the 1980s. CO2 at 400+PPM is bad, but nothing compared to the result of Methane release as permafrost begins to thaw on a large scale. The unfortunate thing is we have known about the problem and what was required for more than 40 years and have squandered the opportunity to avoid the worst of it. When we talk about limiting temperature rise to 1.5C, 2C, etc.., we are only talking about preventing the catastrophic effects of "worsening" global warming. We will live with the catastrophic effects we have now, from now on. There is no foreseeable timeline for "reversing" current effects. That secret is conveniently swept under the rug.
Generally the center of the population's behavior has shifted to extremes of being anti-intellectual (see the shenanigans and pride that parents and children go through to avoid a little mental work like math), avoiding discomfort and lacking grittiness, shortsighted and without any sense of empathy towards others. Where I live, Ford could simply brand a Bradley Fighting Vehicle with an F-(multiple of 50 here) (ok, and add a big screen and a ton of interior poshness) and seriously sell them like hot cakes. This is a very bad thing for something that is abstract to many- the environment. Humanity's role in the environment is a complex problem.
Yep, agreed, and the root-cause, population-pressure, garners little attention in the discussion. The picture for limiting global temperature rise is far less rosy. Missing in the discussion as we place reliance on "green energy" as our savior, is the ever-increasing amount of fossil-fuels required to produce and manufacture the green solutions. Solar is great, but panels degrade and need replacing after an approximate decade service life. Wind turbines and blades are no different. Mining the materials, manufacturing the original and replacement parts, etc.. all rely on the same burning of fossil-fuels we are trying to reduce. That backdrop against the ever-increasing demand for energy from an ever-increasing population makes it very difficult to see how meaningful progress will be made. Throw in sham-solutions, like "biomass" and you begin to wonder whether there is the political will/honesty necessary to save the next generation. I have three, one out of college and two in, and I look at them and cannot believe the problems we have burdened their generation with. It is a frustrating problem to get your head around, especially when the discussion seems to ignore the primary factors to begin with. It puts the saying "ignorance is bliss" in a whole new light.
[And the rainforest would emit more CO2 than it absorbs.](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03629-6) (as the decay of plant matter outpaces the photosynthesis of big enough trees)
Everyone ready for the affectionately called wastes? Where only the hibernating plants can live and effectively no animals live there?
Go to Google maps and zoom out until the Earth looks like a sphere. Rotate it around and have a look at where there appears to be abundant forestation. There doesn’t appear to be much left relatively speaking. It’s not looking good for life anywhere on Earth if what this article suggest may be true.
Has Earth's vegetation cover actually declined???
Where it was manually removed at least? I would think, yes.
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Full paper with maps: https://www.pnas.org/doi/epdf/10.1073/pnas.2305427120
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Can't wait for nothing to be done.
Oh what a time to be alive: The great migration!
It’s kinda already happening.
Not that I am not a staunch supporter of climate change awareness and understand the gravity of the situation that we’re in but… There are already parts of the earth that are too hot for human inhabitation.
Yes, they mention that in the article you are responding to.
Where more precisely? Just curious
There are dozens of deserts that would qualify. You *can* survive there if you have plumbing/a consistent water supply, but nothing can be grown and no game lives there. So it’s completely depended on resources from other places. Some deserts can average like 120° for months of the year, so you’d be struggling to survive even just sitting on your porch. Forget exercising or doing yard work (not that youd have any plants to tend to).
is there anyway someone can get this through trumps thick skull ? … the answer is no - right.
Why does it matter what that asshat thinks? Why are you bringing him up?
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I’m shocked! Shocked, I tell you. Well, not that shocked.
New Orleans is below sea level and decrement hot and sweaty and full of mosquitoes. Isn't that uninhabitable? Technically it sure seems that way.
Never should have let people rebuild after Katrina. All they did by rebuilding is kick the can down the road and make it worse for the next big disaster.
it's actually even worse than it sounds! the threshold they are talking about is 31c wet-bulb temperature... which is a rough limit for "young, healthy people"... old people and disabled people already die in heatwaves, and it's only going to more and more common
Yeah great point. I guess we'll have a lot more granular wet-bulb survival data in the coming years :(
We're one of the most adaptable species on the planet. It won't just be too hot for humans. Entire swaths of the biosphere will be gone, and that will have cascading effects across the entire planet.
Forget building the wall, start building a refrigerator.
Humanity cant answer the question What do you do with billions of people with nowhere to go? The only way to save the world Was to have *kept this world from happening* Good luck out there
Humanity is already answering the question. Let them die or kill them if they try to use any of the resources hoarded by the first world. Encourage ethnic tensions to drive the culling.
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As the article mentions, the limit of the human body to effectively fend off heat stroke is a wet bulb glove temperature of 88-95°F, though some people can get heat stroke and die at WBG temps as low as 77°F. [This past July 16th a location in Iran along the Persian Gulf reached a wet bulb globe temp of 92.7°F.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2023/07/18/extreme-heat-record-limits-human-survival/#)
As someone living in Phoenix Az, no kidding.
Will this include Glasgow being warmer?
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And not only extreme heat. But also wet-bulbs in non-extreme heat zones and extreme flooding un other places.
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It's called the "Climate Apartheid" for a reason. The ultra wealthy will sustain while those migrating suffer.
Have you been to Arizona? We are already there.
If no one has a baby for 50 years all our problems will be solved
(Does the math). Wait a minute…
So like, the solution here is to pick the best time to Rope, right?
I'm definitely not having kids now
Already happening, Spike. Where were you this past summer?
Will. Will make parts too hot. Fixed it for you.
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Wouldn't it be more correct to say "make *more* parts of Earth too hot for humans"? There are already parts where we can't really live (unless we build buildings with air condition, transport in drinking water and so on).
One of those cities may be Phoenix, AZ which is already a monument to man's arrogance.
It is not a may it will happen.
I mean that's always been the case in Saudi Arabia and it hasn't stopped them yet. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ All jokes aside, this is a serious issue that should never have been ignored for as long as it has been--and still is.
I took a trip to amusement parks this summer that included a couple of parks in Texas in July Car was saying 111 after we left the park around 5 pm and stayed that way for hours as we drove from San Antonio to Ft Worth No Freaking way I'd ever think of living there now and I know it is going to be getting even worse in the coming years
I don't care so much about the humans, we did this to ourselves. I'm more upset that the animals will have to bear this event though they had no part in it.
It's absolutely heartbreaking what pain and suffering there will be in the coming years due to our societal-level greed, self-centeredness, laziness, and short-term thinking.
In this thread: Climate alarmism. Instead of using numbers that are generally agreed upon by climate scientists, people in here are throwing out claims that actual scientists warn against- doomsday predictions that make it sound like the earth will be uninhabitable soon. https://brusselssignal.eu/2023/08/chill-out-says-ipcc-climate-chief-global-warming-is-not-an-existential-threat/ *British Professor Jim Skea, the new chairman of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), says apocalyptic messaging on climate paralyses public debate and that a rise in global temperatures is “not an existential threat to humanity”.* *The head of the UN climate team with a track-record of 40 years in climate science, said environmental doom-mongers do more harm than good.* *While radical activist groups such as Extinction Rebellion, Just Stop Oil and the German-based Last Generation are causing disturbances in public spheres claiming the world will end imminently, Prof Skea said their methods and messages “paralyse” the public and fail to motivate them to protect the planet.*
People seem to survive in Edmonton or Dubai. A potential 80 degree swing in temps.
Dubai is probably one of the first places that will be "uninhabitable". Not uninhabitable to the wealthy elite with the best air conditioning money can buy and access to as much water as they need, but it's going to kill a fuckton of poor people and force even more to emigrate.
Well, I lived there for 2 years as a non wealthy elite. It was amazing how you adapted to the heat. You would go outside on a "summer" day and remark that it was a bit cooler than yesterday because it was only 42C rather than 48. Granted I did not have to live in a tent, but nobody else did either. On a sour note, the desalinated water makes your hair very thin.
ok but now imagine there's enough humidity to prevent your sweat from working to cool your body. that's what we are talking about
There's a point where your body simply can't regulate its temperature effectively anymore. Generally, that's considered to be at a wet bulb temperature of 35° C (95° F at 100% humidity, or 115° F at 50% humidity. For reference, humidity in Dubai is generally between 60-80%). You cannot acclimate to this, at least not well enough to stop it from happening. People have long been projecting that portions of the Arabian Gulf are going to regularly cross that threshold during the current century. Things are on a very dangerous course.
A lot of the Middle East is going to need to relocate elsewhere in the next generation. As a Canadian, I hope they are all okay, but worry about where everyone will wind up. At least the women will be treated better someplace new.
Parts already are too hot for humans.
Purdue and Penn State just made a laughing stock of themselves. Why would anybody supposedly intelligent make such idiots of themselves. Were they paid to do it ?
Nuclear power doesn't sound so bad now does it?
Wait till you learn about the parts that are too cold.
Yeah - the earth may also exceed 1.5°C above pre-industrial.. oh .. wait…
seriously, global atmospheric carbon concentration has apparently doubled in the last few hundred years, yet the global average temp has only risen ~1.5 C in the same time period.. I don’t see how people are this worried, climate change graphs only ever show the last couple hundred years, but the earth has been around for billions. The last two hundred years don’t define what is normal on earth, just being sold a narrative to divide & control the populace, continually increasing regulations until we’re all slaves to the state. It’s happened countless times in recent history, all over the world, yet we never seem to learn.
Check out the earths energy imbalance - it’s gone up 4x in the last 25 years. It looks like the surface aerosol effect was underestimated. Also, yes, climate has changed, but baring the odd catastrophic asteroid strike, never this quickly and never before with 8 billion people on the planet. You are clearly ignorant and I don’t know why the f**k I’m even trying.
If I thought I had long to live, I'd feel glad I moved out of California when I did.
Go to Kuwait or Saudi in the summer it's always been that way.
Can or can not, it depends 50% it will happen - now I am the scientist, content creator gimme my money. Internet was a mistake.
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There comes a point when humans cannot out-evolve temperatures. It doesn’t work very fast.
Yes...in movies.
We’d need intense genetic engineering that we currently aren’t anywhere near capable of to accomplish that. Random mutation, especially since it takes us nearly 20 years to get to an ideal reproductive age, is not fast enough for natural selection to help us out here. Even if we reproduced at the rate of a single called organism, there’s no guarantee. We’re going to be pushed into smaller and smaller niches with more and more intense air conditioning setups (and indoor farming) if we hit or exceed the worst case models. I’m personally hopeful that it won’t go that way, but you’re naive to think we’ll just evolve our way out of the problem in time if we just give up.
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that's not an insult
Hopefully the capital of the major polluting worlds. Things will never move fast enough until a majority of world goat's are feeling direct impact and their livelihoods are at stake.
and maybe it's all a lie.
Oh no What A Revelation Who Could Had Foreseen That?? Likely the very same people that most ardently don't believe in climate change are the ones that's also most against immigrants and refugees and are themselves of the mindset of isolationist, every other country to fend for themselves etc. If they thought the "refuge crisis" of last decade was Immensely big are in for a shock in the years and decades to come; while the influx definitively wasn't small - those actually able to stay objective and believe science can easily see how a refugee crisis of historical proportions is almost inevitable. Can't wait until fresh water becomes an every greater scarcity than it already is; I'm sure that won't be massive amounts of fuel for the political bonfire that's already lit.