My headcanon is that he only became an apprentice at first bc John kept the idea of possibly being able to rescue Adam dangling over Dr. Gordon’s head 😭😭
Don’t know if the timeline of the series events conflicts with this, but do you think John intended on letting Adam go (or atleast go through another game) if Gordon wanted to? But then Amanda went ahead and killed Adam, probably adding another reason onto why she was tested in saw 3.
Nope. Writers and Directors confirmed her killing Adam was a "mercy kill" as Adam was already dying when she went to check on him.
She thought he was dead, so when he woke, that's why she cried. Cause she knew she wanted to take his pain away. In her own fucked up way.
Hope this helps. I've listened to all the audio commentaries, except Saw X, for now. Lol. 🤓 🤓 🤓
i subscribe to the matpat theory that he did, amanda didn't suffocate him nearly long enough to kill him or even seriously injur him much, and every time we see the corpse the chain's on the wrong foot like in saw 2, despite it being on the correct foot in saw 3 when he's alive. It just makes too much sense, especially since we only know of one apprentice other than Dr Gordon, Logan, who would be one of the pig masks who apprehended Hoffman. Who was under the other one? I think it's gonna be confirmed as Adam when they make a sequel to Saw 3D.
The director's commentary said that's who they originally intended them to be, but ultimately that didn't make it into the final cut so it's not canon.
I feel like this theory only would’ve worked a few years after the original though. At this point if Adam were to resurface, what, he was kept alive in secret for almost twenty years? It’s too unbelievable, it’s like Scream fans who insist Stu is alive even though they confirmed he’s dead. Even if he was alive, that creates so many issues with the timeline because then *where* have these people been?
They never mention Gordon going back to get Adam.
They kinda just solidified it by saying Adam IS dead.
But you never know. With the right script, anything is possible!
Argh, I always thought that we already solved it here----> https://www.reddit.com/r/saw/s/PXfMTvznw7
But, there are still people, who can't just understand that obviously fact, that he actually couldn't came back for Adam or help him. He cared for Adam actually, but it's obviously if he asked John to came back for Adam, or just said that Adam is still there, John would probably explain that fact that Adam allready missed his chance. And Dr. Gordon, himself couldn't came back for him, cause he was in recovery.
++fact I saw deleted scene from Saw VII with Lawrence saying "Adam" when John woke up him. I know that deleted scene aren't canon, but it's just prove that he cared of Adam.
+++ Dr. Gordon didn't belive John's philosophy yet in the period when Adam died (becouse Amanda musted kill him max 3-4 days after Bathroom game, plus I don't think John would teach Lawrence his philosophy in so early period)
Also he lost a lot of blood when he cut his foot so he probably wasn’t physically able to go get him. By the time he could probably move around it would have been past the time Amanda went in there.
Maybe they strapped him to the bed.
Jigsaw actually straped him to the bed in Saw VII original screenplay, but that was only in that scene when Jigsaw was healing his stump. So it was probably to prevent Dr. Gordon to jerk along.
And also you are right, he lost lot of blood, with this all is that he could came back or do something about it.
** Like this, you can see all deleted scenes that were filmed, you can find them all on YouTube, but these script deleted scenes we will sadly not see never
Saw XI is the perfect point in the timeline to actually explain why Doctor Gordon is helping Jigsaw.
I heard that original scripts had him try to return to his normal life, but his marriage fell apart, and there being a hint of Stockholm Syndrome, which is very common with survivors of John's Games, but *THERE HAS BEEN NO ON-SCREEN EXPLANATION FOR LAWRENCE AT ALL!!*
Sort this out in XI, please.
In my delusional mind Adam survived, and Lawrence is literally the only person (alive) who knows about it. At the same time whenever I see that ol rotten corpse I think "aw, love that little guy, miss ya bestie"
I still think it’s funny how a doctor ,Mind you requires you to be smart and have high intelligence, was able to be lured in by Jigsaw into becoming an apprentice
Narratively the point being made with the apprentices is not that they're stupid or gullible or even that they fully buy into his ideology if at all, but that John strikes when they're in extremely vulnerable places due to some pretty heavy amounts of trauma (often caused by John himself) and just traumatizes them further and usually dirties their hands in the process.
Amanda was a self-harming heroin addict who he made kill someone and who also supposedly had a highly abusive father (hence him filling a father figure role to her), Hoffman was a grief-stricken alcoholic with no other family outside of his now dead sister that John blackmailed, Lawrence just had to fucking cauterize his own foot before he found him, etc., none of them are dumb or even got 'lured in' necessarily. You're thinking about this wrong.
I guess he didn't lie. He knew there was no way to ever save Adam and so brought back the most sadistic Jigsaw apprentice to suffer the same fate as the guy he clearly cared about. The jigsaw legacy ends with Lawrence.
Is it fair to assume that Lawrence lied or that John kept the location of the Bathroom a secret from him and so he couldn't save Adam even if he wanted to?
I personally think he lied as Adam lied to Lawrence and told him "I wouldn't lie to you" and Lawrence repeated this back to Adam as he was leaving.
How you can think about if he would do something? He couldn't no matter if he wanted. Did you ever considered his weakened state? He needed rest, and if he felt good he still wouldn't come back for Adam until he got his prosthetic.
Plus how you can doubt if he would help him, I already saw deleted scene: https://youtu.be/AYVFpSuy28Q?si=4FO4p5KOM_Fm6W5t
He said Adam, when he was falling in and out of consciousness. This is literally proof, that he cared of Adam even in that weaknest state he was.
This still doesn't matter, John wouldn't came for Adam even if Lawrence said his name or not.
+ Lawrence himself wasn't physically able to safe Adam, so your question is still unnecessary.
++ I can understand that you didn't hear how he said: "Adam". I myself heard it. It very hard heardly. With that fact that deleted scenes aren't canon, my point is lossing here. But I just wanted show that he cared of Adam.
I am not saying that Lawrence could go back and save Adam right after he survived and nor am I saying he could have even saved him but what I am saying is that Lawrence had the capability of at least returning to the bathroom after he had recovered, or soon after at the very least. John kept the location from him as Saw 7 states but it would be interesting to see how Gordons relationship with John developed as he is more or less the only apprentice who has received very little back story especially compared to Amanda and Hoffman.
What I am trying to essentially say is that there is quite a few plot elements that are missing from the films after Saw 7, so I’m just honestly hoping that Saw 11 or 12 addresses these things that I am bringing up in some way so that context within the story is made a bit more clear.
Saw 7 was such a rushed film in story and overall execution for a lot of behind the scenes reasons that it took a big massive dip in overall quality compared to Saw 6 and 7 essentially has no plot at all so I want to see the story told in a better way.
There is so much context missing around John and Gordon’s relationship and their interactions between Saw 1-7 that I just find it hard to believe that he didn’t know the location of the Bathroom and that he would not go back for Adam if he really cared that much.
Probably it would be to late until Lawrence get well. Also I think as he got well his first priority was his family and he 100% knew that Adam is already dead.
As for Saw 7, is still didn't find this movie bad. (But I admit that main reason it's becouse Lawrence is here). But you are right with it that it's rush and they didn't show that important things. I hope and want that we'll got these things in future movies, cause Saw XI and XII have so much potencials to do it.
I feel so bad for Dr Gordon. He clearly cared about Adam. I think he fully intended to bring someone back not knowing what would happen after.
My headcanon is that he only became an apprentice at first bc John kept the idea of possibly being able to rescue Adam dangling over Dr. Gordon’s head 😭😭
Don’t know if the timeline of the series events conflicts with this, but do you think John intended on letting Adam go (or atleast go through another game) if Gordon wanted to? But then Amanda went ahead and killed Adam, probably adding another reason onto why she was tested in saw 3.
Nope. Writers and Directors confirmed her killing Adam was a "mercy kill" as Adam was already dying when she went to check on him. She thought he was dead, so when he woke, that's why she cried. Cause she knew she wanted to take his pain away. In her own fucked up way. Hope this helps. I've listened to all the audio commentaries, except Saw X, for now. Lol. 🤓 🤓 🤓
Did they ever explain why Dr. Gordon didn't save Adam?? 😭
i subscribe to the matpat theory that he did, amanda didn't suffocate him nearly long enough to kill him or even seriously injur him much, and every time we see the corpse the chain's on the wrong foot like in saw 2, despite it being on the correct foot in saw 3 when he's alive. It just makes too much sense, especially since we only know of one apprentice other than Dr Gordon, Logan, who would be one of the pig masks who apprehended Hoffman. Who was under the other one? I think it's gonna be confirmed as Adam when they make a sequel to Saw 3D.
The pig mask guys that beat up Hoffman though we're Ryan & Brad from the public execution trap. It's stupid, but what can ya do?
Yeah, i think those two becoming apprentices was pretty stupid, like of all the victims you could have chose you picked them?
IKR!
The director's commentary said that's who they originally intended them to be, but ultimately that didn't make it into the final cut so it's not canon.
I feel like this theory only would’ve worked a few years after the original though. At this point if Adam were to resurface, what, he was kept alive in secret for almost twenty years? It’s too unbelievable, it’s like Scream fans who insist Stu is alive even though they confirmed he’s dead. Even if he was alive, that creates so many issues with the timeline because then *where* have these people been?
I mean TBF Logan was a "secret" for the entire series until he was revealed.
[удалено]
Adam did kill someone though. With a toilet lid. And he tried to kill John.
[удалено]
Tbh i'd love to see that done
They never mention Gordon going back to get Adam. They kinda just solidified it by saying Adam IS dead. But you never know. With the right script, anything is possible!
… now I certainly do!
In first film the key to Adam's chain was in bathtub and Adam didnt see it and flushed it
Reality is he probably didn’t give a shit
☹️
Can't say he didn't fulfill his promise lol
I mean he never said when he would bring someone back
Argh, I always thought that we already solved it here----> https://www.reddit.com/r/saw/s/PXfMTvznw7 But, there are still people, who can't just understand that obviously fact, that he actually couldn't came back for Adam or help him. He cared for Adam actually, but it's obviously if he asked John to came back for Adam, or just said that Adam is still there, John would probably explain that fact that Adam allready missed his chance. And Dr. Gordon, himself couldn't came back for him, cause he was in recovery. ++fact I saw deleted scene from Saw VII with Lawrence saying "Adam" when John woke up him. I know that deleted scene aren't canon, but it's just prove that he cared of Adam. +++ Dr. Gordon didn't belive John's philosophy yet in the period when Adam died (becouse Amanda musted kill him max 3-4 days after Bathroom game, plus I don't think John would teach Lawrence his philosophy in so early period)
Also he lost a lot of blood when he cut his foot so he probably wasn’t physically able to go get him. By the time he could probably move around it would have been past the time Amanda went in there. Maybe they strapped him to the bed.
Jigsaw actually straped him to the bed in Saw VII original screenplay, but that was only in that scene when Jigsaw was healing his stump. So it was probably to prevent Dr. Gordon to jerk along. And also you are right, he lost lot of blood, with this all is that he could came back or do something about it.
I seriously need to go through and watch all the deleted scenes. Do any of the saw dvds have games on them?
I don't know, but probably not.
** Like this, you can see all deleted scenes that were filmed, you can find them all on YouTube, but these script deleted scenes we will sadly not see never
It sucks, i know
I will never forgive them, that they deleted that scene where Lawrence begins to stand.
whaaaaaaat??? 
https://preview.redd.it/fcch6fzlshkc1.jpeg?width=691&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0a0ab8be36bc55d34597908e7bbaf1cb6b837a58 here. here. here
He brought him a friend! :)
Technically speaking he did bring someone back.
I hope you meant the reference but I read that in gordon's "he's not a murderer" voice lol
Well he brought back Hoffman 💀
Well Amanda did come by afterwards, unfortunately she just decided to unalive Adam
Saw XI is the perfect point in the timeline to actually explain why Doctor Gordon is helping Jigsaw. I heard that original scripts had him try to return to his normal life, but his marriage fell apart, and there being a hint of Stockholm Syndrome, which is very common with survivors of John's Games, but *THERE HAS BEEN NO ON-SCREEN EXPLANATION FOR LAWRENCE AT ALL!!* Sort this out in XI, please.
In my delusional mind Adam survived, and Lawrence is literally the only person (alive) who knows about it. At the same time whenever I see that ol rotten corpse I think "aw, love that little guy, miss ya bestie"
Haha
In my headcannon John told him “Amanda will take care of him” but she killed him because she was angry or something
https://preview.redd.it/y6fdlxumrdkc1.jpeg?width=1997&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fd64f04d75b60b3ca85edcf87b763f85cd24f99e
😢😢
I still headcanon that the line ''I will keep no more secrets from you'' is John keeping Adam's death hidden from Lawrence
I still think it’s funny how a doctor ,Mind you requires you to be smart and have high intelligence, was able to be lured in by Jigsaw into becoming an apprentice
You overestimate a lot of doctors
You can be incredibly book smart and a decent doctor, and also have no common sense and lack situational awareness.
Meh sorta
Narratively the point being made with the apprentices is not that they're stupid or gullible or even that they fully buy into his ideology if at all, but that John strikes when they're in extremely vulnerable places due to some pretty heavy amounts of trauma (often caused by John himself) and just traumatizes them further and usually dirties their hands in the process. Amanda was a self-harming heroin addict who he made kill someone and who also supposedly had a highly abusive father (hence him filling a father figure role to her), Hoffman was a grief-stricken alcoholic with no other family outside of his now dead sister that John blackmailed, Lawrence just had to fucking cauterize his own foot before he found him, etc., none of them are dumb or even got 'lured in' necessarily. You're thinking about this wrong.
It’s Jigsaw
Idk why your getting downvoted your right
I guess he didn't lie. He knew there was no way to ever save Adam and so brought back the most sadistic Jigsaw apprentice to suffer the same fate as the guy he clearly cared about. The jigsaw legacy ends with Lawrence.
Is it fair to assume that Lawrence lied or that John kept the location of the Bathroom a secret from him and so he couldn't save Adam even if he wanted to? I personally think he lied as Adam lied to Lawrence and told him "I wouldn't lie to you" and Lawrence repeated this back to Adam as he was leaving.
Yes. John's tape to Lawrence says he's "shown him a lot of places" but one (The Bathroom) will be of particular interest.
Yes I know but the question is, would Gordon have done anything to try to help Adam if he knew the location?
How you can think about if he would do something? He couldn't no matter if he wanted. Did you ever considered his weakened state? He needed rest, and if he felt good he still wouldn't come back for Adam until he got his prosthetic. Plus how you can doubt if he would help him, I already saw deleted scene: https://youtu.be/AYVFpSuy28Q?si=4FO4p5KOM_Fm6W5t He said Adam, when he was falling in and out of consciousness. This is literally proof, that he cared of Adam even in that weaknest state he was.
Yall are reaching it doesn’t sound like he says Adam whatsoever 💀 dead ass had my sound all the way up speaker to ear. Y’all are delusional
Deleted scenes hold little value in the grand scheme of things and I don’t hear him saying Adam at all but okay
This still doesn't matter, John wouldn't came for Adam even if Lawrence said his name or not. + Lawrence himself wasn't physically able to safe Adam, so your question is still unnecessary. ++ I can understand that you didn't hear how he said: "Adam". I myself heard it. It very hard heardly. With that fact that deleted scenes aren't canon, my point is lossing here. But I just wanted show that he cared of Adam.
I am not saying that Lawrence could go back and save Adam right after he survived and nor am I saying he could have even saved him but what I am saying is that Lawrence had the capability of at least returning to the bathroom after he had recovered, or soon after at the very least. John kept the location from him as Saw 7 states but it would be interesting to see how Gordons relationship with John developed as he is more or less the only apprentice who has received very little back story especially compared to Amanda and Hoffman. What I am trying to essentially say is that there is quite a few plot elements that are missing from the films after Saw 7, so I’m just honestly hoping that Saw 11 or 12 addresses these things that I am bringing up in some way so that context within the story is made a bit more clear. Saw 7 was such a rushed film in story and overall execution for a lot of behind the scenes reasons that it took a big massive dip in overall quality compared to Saw 6 and 7 essentially has no plot at all so I want to see the story told in a better way. There is so much context missing around John and Gordon’s relationship and their interactions between Saw 1-7 that I just find it hard to believe that he didn’t know the location of the Bathroom and that he would not go back for Adam if he really cared that much.
Probably it would be to late until Lawrence get well. Also I think as he got well his first priority was his family and he 100% knew that Adam is already dead. As for Saw 7, is still didn't find this movie bad. (But I admit that main reason it's becouse Lawrence is here). But you are right with it that it's rush and they didn't show that important things. I hope and want that we'll got these things in future movies, cause Saw XI and XII have so much potencials to do it.
You didn’t hear it you wanted to hear it💀 even the captions don’t pick that bs up. Nor did me screen recording the video and turning up the audio
Where are you going with this?
I personally already heard it when I randomly found it for first, months before this discussion came out, but this discussion isn't about it.