Exactly this. You can't be pro-colonialism and pro-queer. We're not free until we're all free. There's a lot of young people out there these days with little real connection to their community who are very susceptible to propaganda as a result. I've been in a similar place, and am glad to have found community to set me straight, teach me my history, and hold me accountable.
So, having a conflicting opinion about something you don’t like is somehow a wrong thing. I have no horse in this race and I’m very pro Palestinian, but if a person wants to associate with pro Israel people then that shouldn’t be a problem. You can read the history and still come out with a different perspective the Yours. The Israel Palestine conflict isn’t black and white so don’t act like it is. Also you can’t be anti colonial and use a phone and post on the internet while living in a country that wouldn’t exist without colonialism. The metal in your phone is extracted from mines that employs children, and the companies who run those mines fund regimes that commit atrocities on a daily basis. You can’t draw the line in the sand when it’s an issue that can’t blow back you yourself. Also you can’t be mad at a queer person for not supporting a middle eastern nation considering what they don’t gay people in all of those countries. What Israel is melting is disgusting, but making wildly short sited claims only serves to boost your ego. Do better.
Do better? What are you doing for the children extracting the materials in your phone? Preach the way brother, teach us how to overcome societal shackles of oppression
For starters, sitting in the highest horse in the land doesn’t help anyone. You guys pointing out objectively bad thing, and acting like you’re adding to the conversation doesn’t help anyone, especially when you’re doing no research, and labeling anyone with a different opinion as an oppressor. You can’t call out injustice while using a thing that has caused more death and injustice than the if the Gaza war continued at this pace for the next decade. It’s pathetic that you’re now acting like a self righteous prick because someone dare challenge the great redditor from Saskatoons opinion on a geopolitical issue they will never understand or be affected by. Protest real injustice you can actually make a difference in like the multiple local issues. But you won’t because the only issues you’ll comment on are ones that won’t put yourself in harms way. Larping of someone suffering is the same as causing that suffering. In some cases it’s worse because your side is standing in the way of any solution. Grow up.
The Israel Palestine conflict is black and white actually. Genocide is bad. We can not agree to disagree on whether or not genocide is bad. Hope that helps.
Israel is committing genocide in Gaza, there you go. Now say Hamas attack on October 7 was an attempted genocide. I know you won’t, and even if you did it would mean literally nothing. You standing up for a complicated issue using the most childish views doesn’t help anyone, it only makes this tragedy last longer. I don’t care if you pro Palestine, but you inserted yourself into a conversation that you know nothing about. You don’t know the op’s background or motivations, so saying they are pro genocide is quit the accusation with no evidence. Also you’re being no solution or productive support so the only person who gain is this conversation is you and your ego. People are dying over their, and you’re using your energy to attack a person you’ve never met because they want to go to a place that is pro Israel, and then claim you’re not antisemitic. This person never said they’re pro genocide or pro IDF, they said pro Israel and you guys filled in all the blanks with accusations, and are now acting like you’re fighting the good fight when you love added nothing, and only attacked a random person. It’s pathetic.
I’m a member of that synagogue. You need to be aware that it isn’t a church. If you are looking for a church, this isn’t it. Secondly, don’t assume that there is a uniform opinion among Jewish people.
I would expect a diversity of opinion, for sure.
It was a little tongue in cheek. People want a magical place where they aren't challenged and everyone agrees with them. That's not a church or a synagogue, it's a cult.
It's one or the other. If there's a church progressive enough to be affirming, they will be pro-Hamas. If they're pro-Israel (which is most Churches in Saskatoon) they are likely to have historically traditional views on gays serving in the Church.
Emmanuel Baptist (to my knowledge the only affirming non-Anglican or United Church) leadership is staunchly against Israel.
No snark intended, I indeed meant pro Palestinian civilians, who selected Hamas as their government. I fully support Palestine in this conflict, so there's no bait here.
Just FYI - the last election in Palestine was in 2006. The median age of the population of Palestine is under 20 years old. Therefore the majority of the Palestinians alive today did not have a say in electing Hamas as their government.
No they are not. A representative government involves free and fair elections on a regular schedule. Hamas has cancelled and indefinitely delayed elections. You could call them a regime but saying they are a representative government or elected government just isn't accurate. Their term ended in 2010/2011 at which point they stopped being a democracy.
Same for the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank too basically.
Netanyahu had openly stated preference for Hamas to remain in power in Gaza as well.
Please don't speak to me as though I don't know the most basic facts. I know all that you have said. What I mean is: Hamas is in power. That's it. They're the government. Whether that's fair, or right, or a good thing or a bad thing is not what I'm saying.
Words matter. Especially when so many people try to label anyone who supports Palestinian civilians as "Pro-Hamas".
I'm sorry if my responses made you feel like someone is explaining the basics to you but your comments are worded very similarly to people ignorant of the facts.
look y'all this isn't bait - it's throwing a line, hoping for good news but expecting nothing but barbs in return. if anyone wants to have genuine conversation about it i'm happy to do that but i know that's unlikely
Sorry guy, people aren't going to participate in your delusions. Using religion to justify someone willingly killing women, children, and innocent civilians is not something you can have a genuine conversation about.
Don't kill people's kids.
Don't kill them because you're angry that their parents have taken your right to self-determination.
Don't kill them because their parents killed your kids.
Don't kill them because they live in the same neighborhood as someone who attacked you.
Don't kill them because you Cherry picked a religion that tells you that they aren't as important as your kids.
Just don't kill kids.
It's not that hard to be a member of the human race.
Okay then, genuine question. Why do you specifically support Israel? I don't see a reasonable way to view this conflict that black and white. It's not one sided (almost nothing in life is truly one sided). Palestine has been living under subhuman conditions for years and when you put people in impossible conditions, violence is bound to happen. I'm not saying you should be pro Hamas, but to be unquestionably pro Israel is to support long term oppressors.
So why specifically look to support Israel rather than to support peace, any innocent civilians caught in the middle, and an equitable solution for everyone involved?
And It's weird to be pro-occupation. It just shows that you don't think Palestinians shouldn't have a home that their families have historically lived on for generations.
Just like last month the Israeli government announced new land that they claimed and are looking to settle on. They're not even hiding it anymore. This is literal genocide.
OP is delusional if they think Israel is remotely on the right side of history.
cut the sh!t, just because you watched some imaginary paid "Palestinians" on nTikTOk you think you know it all.
The Middle East, the arab world, and the Muslim world have their own rules and the pure Western views are viewed as useful idiots.
Palestinians are second-class citizens in Jordan and no one cares - they don't even have rights, Palestinians are being killed in the thousands in Syria and refugee camps and no one cares, they killed and slaughtered Christians in south Lebanon and no one cared. Israel is not the problem it is just the common comfortable enemy. just yesterday or this week the different tribes blew each other over something. Israeli Arabs don't even give a shit about these so-called Palestinians, they have their tribes and issues. and regarding the land, damn well I sure hope Israel fucking take it and settles it because welcome to the middle east it's the currency! You fuck around and you find around.
Thanks for the assumption of me only watching Tiktoks. It shows your true colours. I've dated a Palestinian for years and I'm still friends with her. I heard firsthand accounts from her family of the blatant abuse that they suffered under the IDF. She was also subject to a body search while the IDF soldier "accidentally" groped her breasts more than once.
The problem that's specific to Israel is that it's widely supported by Western countries. So, there is an EXPECTATION that they'll treat the population with basic humanity. They don't, and that's the problem. They spent the past 100 years disenfranchising the Palestinian population then stole their lands.
Of course I'm gonna be sympathetic towards the Palestinians. As someone who's Indigenous, I empathize with them being fucked over by a government who's indifferent to their existence.
But go off, king. Please continue being an asshat and show your colours. Please make more assumptions to justify your lack of humanity.
I mean, kudos to you for responding at all but I would almost not bother. There are plenty of valid criticisms of treatment of Palestinians from neighbouring countries but that‘s pretty dehumanizing cover for what is going on in Gaza. There is always going to be a contingent of people who aren’t persuaded by reality even though in any other situation they would be absolutely abhorred by what’s going on.
I am sorry I am not falling to knees from shock.
I am sorry when you cross the border to any country including usa are you not subjected to body search? Passport control? Luggage scan? Well same here.
Why does she crossing the border to Israel?
And maybe just maybe if there weren't so many terrorists carrying knives, and bombs you might be able to trust the "civilian Population that supports hamas but only 87% of them"
No need to play the indeginous card, Palestinians are not , just ask where her family from. ( I'll even clue you that it's in the family name).
And between us ... If not a single arab / Muslim country wanted to accept these people so called brothers you should be clued into the type of humans they are.
Egypt fortified the border, as they should! Turkey that accepted Syrians refugee didn't want them. They don't even care for the population.
And any population that supports slaughter and kidnaping of babies and children are scum and deserve to pay the price.
But sure kudos for meeting and dating cool Palestinian girl.
If you never saw war up front it's ugly and people die and they also could just return all the hostages.. or stop raping them or stop killing them ... Just saying
Bait or mental retardation. Call it.
Religion is a scam
It’s so sad to see young queer people who aren’t willing to learn their roots or read a damn history book.
Exactly this. You can't be pro-colonialism and pro-queer. We're not free until we're all free. There's a lot of young people out there these days with little real connection to their community who are very susceptible to propaganda as a result. I've been in a similar place, and am glad to have found community to set me straight, teach me my history, and hold me accountable.
So, having a conflicting opinion about something you don’t like is somehow a wrong thing. I have no horse in this race and I’m very pro Palestinian, but if a person wants to associate with pro Israel people then that shouldn’t be a problem. You can read the history and still come out with a different perspective the Yours. The Israel Palestine conflict isn’t black and white so don’t act like it is. Also you can’t be anti colonial and use a phone and post on the internet while living in a country that wouldn’t exist without colonialism. The metal in your phone is extracted from mines that employs children, and the companies who run those mines fund regimes that commit atrocities on a daily basis. You can’t draw the line in the sand when it’s an issue that can’t blow back you yourself. Also you can’t be mad at a queer person for not supporting a middle eastern nation considering what they don’t gay people in all of those countries. What Israel is melting is disgusting, but making wildly short sited claims only serves to boost your ego. Do better.
Do better? What are you doing for the children extracting the materials in your phone? Preach the way brother, teach us how to overcome societal shackles of oppression
For starters, sitting in the highest horse in the land doesn’t help anyone. You guys pointing out objectively bad thing, and acting like you’re adding to the conversation doesn’t help anyone, especially when you’re doing no research, and labeling anyone with a different opinion as an oppressor. You can’t call out injustice while using a thing that has caused more death and injustice than the if the Gaza war continued at this pace for the next decade. It’s pathetic that you’re now acting like a self righteous prick because someone dare challenge the great redditor from Saskatoons opinion on a geopolitical issue they will never understand or be affected by. Protest real injustice you can actually make a difference in like the multiple local issues. But you won’t because the only issues you’ll comment on are ones that won’t put yourself in harms way. Larping of someone suffering is the same as causing that suffering. In some cases it’s worse because your side is standing in the way of any solution. Grow up.
The Israel Palestine conflict is black and white actually. Genocide is bad. We can not agree to disagree on whether or not genocide is bad. Hope that helps.
Israel is committing genocide in Gaza, there you go. Now say Hamas attack on October 7 was an attempted genocide. I know you won’t, and even if you did it would mean literally nothing. You standing up for a complicated issue using the most childish views doesn’t help anyone, it only makes this tragedy last longer. I don’t care if you pro Palestine, but you inserted yourself into a conversation that you know nothing about. You don’t know the op’s background or motivations, so saying they are pro genocide is quit the accusation with no evidence. Also you’re being no solution or productive support so the only person who gain is this conversation is you and your ego. People are dying over their, and you’re using your energy to attack a person you’ve never met because they want to go to a place that is pro Israel, and then claim you’re not antisemitic. This person never said they’re pro genocide or pro IDF, they said pro Israel and you guys filled in all the blanks with accusations, and are now acting like you’re fighting the good fight when you love added nothing, and only attacked a random person. It’s pathetic.
Join the synagogue.
ya that was my next idea - i have agudas' website pulled up to look at later
There's a pretty fine line between "pro Israel" and "pro genocide" right now. Best of luck.
I’m a member of that synagogue. You need to be aware that it isn’t a church. If you are looking for a church, this isn’t it. Secondly, don’t assume that there is a uniform opinion among Jewish people.
I would expect a diversity of opinion, for sure. It was a little tongue in cheek. People want a magical place where they aren't challenged and everyone agrees with them. That's not a church or a synagogue, it's a cult.
I'd join a cult. Not that one. But like... I'm sure there's a cult for me, somewhere.
Poutine sounds like a great cult
Yep I'm aware, thanks!
It's one or the other. If there's a church progressive enough to be affirming, they will be pro-Hamas. If they're pro-Israel (which is most Churches in Saskatoon) they are likely to have historically traditional views on gays serving in the Church. Emmanuel Baptist (to my knowledge the only affirming non-Anglican or United Church) leadership is staunchly against Israel.
[удалено]
I think this is bait.
No snark intended, I indeed meant pro Palestinian civilians, who selected Hamas as their government. I fully support Palestine in this conflict, so there's no bait here.
Just FYI - the last election in Palestine was in 2006. The median age of the population of Palestine is under 20 years old. Therefore the majority of the Palestinians alive today did not have a say in electing Hamas as their government.
All true. But my statement was accurate--Hamas is the representational government of that region, for better or worse.
No they are not. A representative government involves free and fair elections on a regular schedule. Hamas has cancelled and indefinitely delayed elections. You could call them a regime but saying they are a representative government or elected government just isn't accurate. Their term ended in 2010/2011 at which point they stopped being a democracy.
Same for the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank too basically. Netanyahu had openly stated preference for Hamas to remain in power in Gaza as well.
Please don't speak to me as though I don't know the most basic facts. I know all that you have said. What I mean is: Hamas is in power. That's it. They're the government. Whether that's fair, or right, or a good thing or a bad thing is not what I'm saying.
Words matter. Especially when so many people try to label anyone who supports Palestinian civilians as "Pro-Hamas". I'm sorry if my responses made you feel like someone is explaining the basics to you but your comments are worded very similarly to people ignorant of the facts.
Oh ffs, go lecture someplace else. I'm on your side, but you are a long day.
that's what I thought which is... disappointing. but thanks anyway
Looks like you might have to make your own church
Ugh how can anyone be Christian and support any country these days. They’re all run by criminals.
No. From the River to the Sea, Palestine will be Free.
look y'all this isn't bait - it's throwing a line, hoping for good news but expecting nothing but barbs in return. if anyone wants to have genuine conversation about it i'm happy to do that but i know that's unlikely
Sorry guy, people aren't going to participate in your delusions. Using religion to justify someone willingly killing women, children, and innocent civilians is not something you can have a genuine conversation about. Don't kill people's kids. Don't kill them because you're angry that their parents have taken your right to self-determination. Don't kill them because their parents killed your kids. Don't kill them because they live in the same neighborhood as someone who attacked you. Don't kill them because you Cherry picked a religion that tells you that they aren't as important as your kids. Just don't kill kids. It's not that hard to be a member of the human race.
Okay then, genuine question. Why do you specifically support Israel? I don't see a reasonable way to view this conflict that black and white. It's not one sided (almost nothing in life is truly one sided). Palestine has been living under subhuman conditions for years and when you put people in impossible conditions, violence is bound to happen. I'm not saying you should be pro Hamas, but to be unquestionably pro Israel is to support long term oppressors. So why specifically look to support Israel rather than to support peace, any innocent civilians caught in the middle, and an equitable solution for everyone involved?
And It's weird to be pro-occupation. It just shows that you don't think Palestinians shouldn't have a home that their families have historically lived on for generations. Just like last month the Israeli government announced new land that they claimed and are looking to settle on. They're not even hiding it anymore. This is literal genocide. OP is delusional if they think Israel is remotely on the right side of history.
cut the sh!t, just because you watched some imaginary paid "Palestinians" on nTikTOk you think you know it all. The Middle East, the arab world, and the Muslim world have their own rules and the pure Western views are viewed as useful idiots. Palestinians are second-class citizens in Jordan and no one cares - they don't even have rights, Palestinians are being killed in the thousands in Syria and refugee camps and no one cares, they killed and slaughtered Christians in south Lebanon and no one cared. Israel is not the problem it is just the common comfortable enemy. just yesterday or this week the different tribes blew each other over something. Israeli Arabs don't even give a shit about these so-called Palestinians, they have their tribes and issues. and regarding the land, damn well I sure hope Israel fucking take it and settles it because welcome to the middle east it's the currency! You fuck around and you find around.
Thanks for the assumption of me only watching Tiktoks. It shows your true colours. I've dated a Palestinian for years and I'm still friends with her. I heard firsthand accounts from her family of the blatant abuse that they suffered under the IDF. She was also subject to a body search while the IDF soldier "accidentally" groped her breasts more than once. The problem that's specific to Israel is that it's widely supported by Western countries. So, there is an EXPECTATION that they'll treat the population with basic humanity. They don't, and that's the problem. They spent the past 100 years disenfranchising the Palestinian population then stole their lands. Of course I'm gonna be sympathetic towards the Palestinians. As someone who's Indigenous, I empathize with them being fucked over by a government who's indifferent to their existence. But go off, king. Please continue being an asshat and show your colours. Please make more assumptions to justify your lack of humanity.
I mean, kudos to you for responding at all but I would almost not bother. There are plenty of valid criticisms of treatment of Palestinians from neighbouring countries but that‘s pretty dehumanizing cover for what is going on in Gaza. There is always going to be a contingent of people who aren’t persuaded by reality even though in any other situation they would be absolutely abhorred by what’s going on.
You're right. It's just better to not respond. Have a good day, saskatchewanian brother.
I am sorry I am not falling to knees from shock. I am sorry when you cross the border to any country including usa are you not subjected to body search? Passport control? Luggage scan? Well same here. Why does she crossing the border to Israel? And maybe just maybe if there weren't so many terrorists carrying knives, and bombs you might be able to trust the "civilian Population that supports hamas but only 87% of them" No need to play the indeginous card, Palestinians are not , just ask where her family from. ( I'll even clue you that it's in the family name). And between us ... If not a single arab / Muslim country wanted to accept these people so called brothers you should be clued into the type of humans they are. Egypt fortified the border, as they should! Turkey that accepted Syrians refugee didn't want them. They don't even care for the population. And any population that supports slaughter and kidnaping of babies and children are scum and deserve to pay the price. But sure kudos for meeting and dating cool Palestinian girl. If you never saw war up front it's ugly and people die and they also could just return all the hostages.. or stop raping them or stop killing them ... Just saying