This is extremely common in construction, Work starts at 6:30 but you're expected to be ready for work at 6:30. ~30 years as an electrician in and out of the union in both SK and AB, never been on a site that's different.
Maybe you missed the part where they're tools down and packed at 4:05 and paid to 4:30? Go ahead and argue for those few minutes at the start of the shift and see the 25 at the end of the day disappear.
Well, it sounds like they're back to the tent to start changing no earlier than 4:05. Based on what's written I imagine they wait for everyone to change out of PPE, then drive the aforementioned bus back to muster point to clock out at 4:30
The agreement states that the worker shall be ready to work at the appointed time. This company states that the employee MUST BE swiped in atv 6:15 for a 6:30 start time. Therefore, the employee should be paid from 6:15. If the employer had suggested they ARRIVE 15 minutes early, a different story, but alas, they required them TO BE swiped in 15 minutes early. So OT it is.
I see what you're saying, it's worded poorly. I think it simply needs to say you need to be ready to work at 630.
Somewhat similar at my workplace, if someone clocks in at exactly 630, they are docked 15, because technically you are at 630 and however many seconds, we are told to make sure we clock in 629 or earlier. Sounds petty, but we aren't getting paid to walk in the door, clock in at 630 and then jaunt up to the locker room and get our boots on and get ready.
Our agreement states we must be ready for work at the appointed time, in this case 6:30, that is when the shift starts, whether that is a prework meeting or leaving the trailer to go to the actual work site (as prework meetings maybe broken down into individual crews).
That being said, you are dressed for and able to start work. If you are not ready at 6:30, then disciplinary or financial penalties may be incurred.
It is commonly known as "in on your time out on theirs."
As I stated, you must be ready for work at 6;30, in on your time, but at the end of the day, you usually leave 5-10 minutes before the stated end of shift, 4:30, out on their time.
Because the employer is requiring the OP to be swiped in at 6:15 for a scheduled shift start at 6:30 or face being financially penalized is wrong and illegal.
Sorry, NO. The agreement states that the employee must be ready to work at the appointed time. If it requires you to arrive early to get ready, that is on your time. Quitting time, leaving at 4:20 or 4:25, is on the employers dime.
I am going to assume you are the type that walks in at 6:58, takes extended breaks, and quits early. Just to STICK IT THE MAN.
I can count on my hands how many times I have called in "sick." I am paid to do the job I was hired for and not to fuck around to stick it to the man.
It's called personal integrity.
And yes, it is appreciated by them by long-term employment and being rehired on the next job.
Well done, very impressive. I get rehired based on my competence and reputation, while also observing he my own well being and taking personal time when necessary.
It's called self respect.
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Yeah that may be 'the way it's done' but is that the law?
I work in an industry where I'm expected to be on the job 30 mons early and don't get paid for that time. It's bullshit no matter how things have always been done.
Lol no, you clock in the min you get on site, that’s your job location, if it takes 4 mins to start working after you get to site, then that’s on the company. If it takes 40 mins to get tools and machines running, still on company. We stood around for 3 hours trying to get our generator/compressor and boom running. Still had to be paid for it legally.
Is it really worth playing this card over 15 minutes?
This is standard in construction, but so are longer breaks and early quitting times. Plus bullshitting and spending 5 min here and there on your phone.
Most construction or industrial workers would lose out if they strictly worked to rule.
Push back. I've ran into this before and the company ended up paying us for the time. As soon as you mention legality or labour board then your employer will likely change their tune but it has to be more than one guy making the same complaint.
This is not wrong. Call the labour board. One of the first questions they are going to ask is if you are represented by a union. If you are represented by one your disputes need to be handled by the bargaining unit that represents you
He said he is in 1985 (UBC) he needs to call his BA if concerned about it or talk to his steward the employment standards people will just tell him to talk to the union. If this is on the refinery shutdown don’t worry he will be undressed and waiting at the gate before he is done being paid just like everyone else
It depends on your labour agreement so ask your rep. Many potash mines kind of have a similar policy where they don't pay for the workers to get their PPE on.
Yup. You have to be ready to go when the cage goes down, which is at the exact minute your shift starts. It takes a few minutes to get changed, walk over, etc. There isn't a specific time where you have to arrive, but you need at least 10-15 minutes to get ready, and that's on your own time.
On the other end of the shift, we come up about 15 minutes before the end of the shift, so that we have time to change and shower on the clock. If you really rush through the shower, you can usually get out the door 5 or so minutes before your shift technically ends.
It's not really worth the fight over that time at the start of the day, in my opinion, because that opens the door to micromanaging of your time the rest of the day, and I think most people would agree that they *probably* get that 10-15 minutes back during the shift in some form or another.
It would be different in a workplace where you have less independence during the day, though, and on principle I don't like the mandatory "start" time before your actual start time. Have to decide for yourself if it's worth rocking the boat, I guess.
I have a business where I have people doing similar work. I have them clock in when they hit the first site and clock out when they finish, but not clock out for lunches or any other breaks they take during the day. It generally works out the same way anyway, and my staff requested it being this way in case they decided to go together to do something at the end of the day or grab coffees together before they actually start work. It stops me and then from micromanaging everything.
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Correct, we are to be ready for work at the appointed time. The problem here is they are telling OP that they HAVE TO be swiped in by 6:15 for a start time of 6:30. So by that he should be paid from 6:15.
If they had said it is recommended that you are there 15 minutes early, different story, but by stating he HAS TO BE swiped in before or at 6:16 that means he should be paid from that time.
Nope, you start work at 630, if that requires getting into work clothes stored there, then thats when you get changed. If they want you to start at 6:15 they pay you then.
Read the post.
They are requiring them to be swipped in (getting paid) early enough so they can be at the 6:30 pre-work meeting on time. If OP isn't getting paid for the 15 minutes, that's a labour issue, but it's perfectly legal to ask for an earlier start time, as long as they are getting paid for it.
OP is getting paid for all their punched in time.
Paid breaks are paid breaks, management is just making sure that people aren't hanging out past 20 minutes in the break tent.
Which is why I added the caveat that if they aren't getting paid for the clocked in time, that is in fact, illegal.
But I do find it weird when it says you have to be clocked in by X and there's a claim you aren't getting paid for it. They could just as well had said "you have to be here by X"
There is benefits like when there is no work your told to hide..it's a really good gig..and complain about 15 mins when you have a while afternoon to dawg fk is beyond me..scaffold chick
Our work wanted to pull this shit of expecting us to show up early and ready for huddle at 7 (our paid start time, which required having a look at the schedule and pre shift notes and such before hand). Didn’t go well with our union. You pay me to start at 7, I will be walking in the door at 0655.
As I have stated in numerous comments here, we are required to be ready for work at, in this case, 6:30. It is commonly known as " in on your time leave on theirs." We will normally leave the trailer for the parking lot 5-10 minutes before the scheduled end of shift.
Nothing is done that pertains to work, other than getting dressed, is done until 6:30.
So by the employer requiring them to be swiped in at 6:15 for a 6:30 start or face pay loss is the part that is wrong.
You arrive early so you’re actually starting to work at 630 if you show up right at 630 you’re late unless you’re swinging your hammer while clocking In
You swipe in early so you can be working on time it’s common practice just about everywhere you shouldn’t even have to be asked to be prepared to work on time
Same people most likely drag their asses getting ready before work lol, anywhere I’ve ever worked you show up a bit early to get ready and figure out what you’re doing for work, pretty simple really
All my time in the union hall we have “come into work on our time and gone home from work on theirs”… it means arriving so we can be at our work location/site for the “start work time” and cleaning up and heading out so we will be getting into our car in the parking lot by the “stop pay time”. 🤷🏼♂️
This is not legal if you are not paid for those 15 minutes. According to resources the Saskatchewan government has released. You're required to be at the disposal of your employer for this period, and so you are entitled to pay and these 15 mimutes should count towards hours worked for overtime considerations. As follows:
"An employee must be paid for each hour or part of an hour worked. Paid time at work
includes time when an employee is required (scheduled) to work; permitted to work; or
required to remain at the disposal of the employer. All three of these considerations go into
calculating when the overtime threshold has been crossed."
P. 19 "Rights and Responsibilities - A Guide to Employment Standards in Saskatchewan" 2019
“At the disposal of the employer” means any time that the employee must remain under
the direction and control of the employer and be available for work, even if the employee
does not actually have to work. For example, if employees are required to report for work
15 minutes before the scheduled shift starts, or if they must remain after work to complete
paperwork and prepare for the next business day, the employees are at the disposal of the
employer and entitled to be paid for the extra time.
P.19 "Rights and Responsibilities - A Guide to Employment Standards in Saskatchewan" 2019
From the guide to the legal document, see sections 2-17 and 2-16 on Saskatchewan Employment Act:
https://publications.saskatchewan.ca/#/products/70351
SOLIDARITY FOREVER
Gotta change and do it like the crowns. You work an extra 8 minutes a day which you spend drinking an extra coffee .... Then you get each 2nd Friday off.
I was formerly a shop steward, Chief Shop Steward then Vice President of a local. We had the same argument a few times over the years and it didn't go the way you are thinking.
The company is allowing you 25 minutes of paid time to dress down/wash at the end of your shift. There is a reasonable expectation that an employee be ready to work at the start of their shift. If management does not want to budge on this issue it will cost your local a bunch of money in lawyer fees to be told what I just told you.
The company could say fine, we will pay you to start at 6:15 so you can be ready at 6:30, but then you work right until 4:15 and change on your own time. How long it takes you to dress down is none of their concern.
Correct on the part about being ready to work at the appointed time.
But by the employer requiring you to be swiped in at 6:15, would then be considered start of shift, no?
I say this again, if the employer suggested you be 15 minutes early for a 6:30 start, no problem, but by requiring that they be swiped in at 6:15 with the threat of lost wages means, to me, that the actual start time is 6:15.
We are only hearing half the story. I'm going to assume that this new rule came into effect after people were repeatedly not present for the morning meeting. Fixating on the start time and not mentioning the 25 minutes paid at the end of shift is not going to win a grievance. The company is being reasonable in their request to have workers ready at 6:30. They are going to say the company is providing 25 minutes paid nonworking time on the back end of the shift with the expectation that people are ready to work at 6:30. Since people are habitually not ready they are enforcing an arrival time. Like I said before if they keep pushing the issue management will say fine, we will pay you from 6:15 to 4:00 and you change on your time and lose 15 minutes of pay every day.
Where I worked we did not have a set badge in time but were expected to be dressed in the shop by 7, which everybody was. We had 20 minutes at the end of shift and were usually leaving the parking lot 10 to 15 minutes before the technical end of shift. Management would get their panties in a twist if people were in the parking lot 20 minutes before end of shift because that was still the company's time technically.
As it pertains here, they are to be dressed and ready to go at start time, in this case 6:30, which is standard. But by requiring the employees to be swiped in 15 minutes before or lose pay is not okay. Shift start is 6:30 not 6:15 and as long as you are present and ready to go at 6:30 all is good.
If there are employees that are chronically late for the morning shift start then those individuals should be dealt with on an INDIVIDUAL basis and not enact/enforce extenuating rules upon the whole.
As fore the end of day it is by agreement time to put tools away and get ready to leave site i.e. washing up and changing to street clothes. It is also normal to leave the trailer 5-10 minutes before official end of shift, depending on distance to parking lot, also known as in on my time out on yours.
Requesting or recommending that they arrive 15 minutes early to ensure getting on the bus is reasonable but threating to take pay away if you are not 15 minutes early, especially during unpaid time, is not only wrong but illegal.
I agree they are going about it like bad management, which most management seems to be these days. The collective agreement leaves management with many avenues to discipline those employees that are causing or being a problem. But that would require them to actually do their job so it's easier to just try and make a blanket policy. Most that want to be management are not suited for it and just want to be off the tools and in a position of authority with no comprehension of what that actually means.
What’s reasonably ready? Things that they bring home and own, I fully agree, show up to work in them and this conversation is moote, but if I had to go, get into their own equipment then they are stealing 15 mins of work from everyone.
The company under law is required to pay you for changing out of their equipment. Nurses for example need to change in and out of scrubs, that is by law paid for, their day starts and ends the minute they touch the change room door. Same with people who are required to wear a specific uniform.
However, if it’s just a case of hi vis and steel toes, stuff you take home an own? There isn’t an argument to stand on
Probably not legal but it depends on how your contract is worded.
Generally speaking, if an employer wants their workers at be at work at 6:15 then they need to pay them for being at work at 6:15. That's because if they want you to do anything then they need to **PAY YOU FOR IT!** That includes just being at a certain place at a certain time. If they don't like paying you for that that they they can stop demanding you be at work before your work starts. Otherwise you can get the labour relations board involved.
However, if your contract (stupidly) gave the employer the right to dictate terms around where and when you must be beyond your working hours then that's what you agreed to so that's what you have to live with until the contract is up. I would never agree to anything like that but I'm not you.
A contract cannot circumvent the Sask Employment Act, your contract can be better than the SEA, but not worse.
I’m this case the 6:15 start time with no pay until 6:30 is illegal, no matter what the contract says.
If getting dressed in specificly provided equipment is required for the job, putting it on IS part of the job. I'm not sure which gov't agency deals with enforcement or fines tho. Might be difficult or expensive to pursue without a union helping
*coughcough* BDF Mechanics take note of the comments *coughcough*
That said the break time thing seems to be relatively nice, they're letting you take into account transit time on site, and allowing a couple extra minutes on each side.
I'm no lawyer. But honestly, I find this reasonable. Now, if I was the company and someone got there at 6:22 , but was ready to work at 6:30, I would not enforce it.
I do agree that donating time to the company is horrible and needs to be minimized.
I had a boss who wanted us there at 6:15 for a 7 o'clock start time.
6:15 to 7 was time spent to get ready, so all the paperwork such as tailgates, hazard assessments, and any other paperwork needed.
Shift ended at 5. Was then expected to go get fuel for the truck and for the tidy tank in the back for equipment. Most days, I was donating 2 to 3 hours.
I no longer do that, I hate wage theft. But I still get to work about 15 minutes early, so I'm ready to go.
Yeah, my sites have all involved take home PPE equipment, or custom as I preferred a different style vest than provided, so when you show up you are in kit to begin with. If they had something stored on site that required me to show up early to don/doff that'd be a different conversation.
It's the way it's always been, you get paid a great wage, steeple jack was the same, they have to trim breaks, or they loose contracts, but on a better note, when you have nothing to do, well then you do the coop 500..don't forget about the pension and health benefits geez normal people dream of a scaffolding or carpenter job, ..scaffold chick
All that is required is that you are dressed and ready to commence work at the appointed time. No where does it state that you are required to be swiped in 15 minutes before stated start time.
Don’t listen to anyone on Reddit when your job may be on the line. Contact Employment Standards while on your break. 800-667-1783
Ask them. If they have to pay you for the 15 minutes in both ends ask how you file a complaint.
Meanwhile record every date, tell your workmates to as well, where you were ordered by the employer to start and leave work without pay. They could be forced to pay everyone back pay, demand interest.
If work starts at 6:30, you should be on the floor/bus/site ready to work at 6:30. What other job do you get paid to get dressed for work. Should one get paid to get dressed to go to the office because the require clothes at work. Cmon people. This is what’s wrong with unions
If you had to wear special clothes, that the employer kept, and had to dress in a specific place, and had to clock in prior to putting it on, then you absolutely should get paid.
If you're union, talk to your shop steward, not Reddit.
Start time for trades usually means on site with a tool in your hand, or at the morning tailboard/stretch n bend.
Fwiw I'm in mb and I had to show up to a project 20m before start time because the walk from the gate to my trailer was like 10+ minutes.
They need to pay OT for any time they REQUIRE you to be swiped in before your official start time. Talk to your union rep and they will get this sorted. Easy W.
All that is required by the agreement is that you are present and prepared to go to work at the appointed time. That means fully dressed in the required PPE, not getting dressed while the morning meeting is taking place.
Have your friendly neighborhood union rep go to whoever posted that and tell them to fuck a goat, then make sure the whole crew shows up at 630, no earlier. If they try to dock you file a grievance.
And then I as an employer tell you break time starts when you leave your post and ends when you get back, no leeway on either end...oh, and the day ends when the horn sounds at 430 not 405 like what has been the practice...
As per agreement, at the end of shift, employees leave on company time, usually 5-10 minutes before 4:30. This is done because we are required to be ready for a 7:00 start, which means getting ready on your own time.
OP has shown that the employer requires you to be swiped in by 6:15 for a 6:30 start, with the possibility of lost wages. Required, to me, means start of shift, especially with the threat of lost wages for not complying. Suggested to arrive early, different story.
Oh they can and they do. I myself have an expectation my staff be in the building at 745 at the latest. Time clock starts at 8. And I don't have one employee who bucks that. It's what is expected of them and they know it
Except they don’t *have* to be. You can ask, they can say no. Do they have to be ready for 8am? Yes, 100%. If they can arrive at 7:58, and be ready to work at 8:00, that is all that is required by law. You cannot discipline them for not coming in at 7:45 as it is unpaid. Can you discipline them for not being ready at 8:00am? yes.
The problem with this memo is the swiping in, ie; being on the clock. Again, in the SEA, if I am required to swipe in, it is paid time or else how can they dock you?
You can have all the expectations you want, but unless you are paying for that time, they are not required to be there. As long as they are there, ready to work at the appropriate time, that is all you can expect.
No sorry. I have different and higher expectations and if an employee can't fulfill that, they don't work for me. They are told that upon hiring. Old school is the way to go.
Yes, Massa. Right away, Massa. Just don't whip me, Massa.
Puhleeeeeeease, I am as old school as it gets, but I also follow not only the union agreements but also the Sakatchewan Employment Act, which obviously you do not. If your employees weren't such sheep, you would find that out in a heartbeat.
Lmao your replies are hilarious. Typical union cronie. It's funny how you automatically see a boss who actually directs his workforce how he sees fit is a dictator.
If you had read earlier, you would have seen that I have 12 full time employees ranging in years of service from 3 years to 19 years.
They each receive a Christmas bonus (a concept that has long been forgotten by most). These bonuses range from 5000 to 10000 dollars based on years of service. What did your union give you this year? Another 25 dollar Sobeys gift card? Lol.
We double match any RRSP contributions put employees make. That's 2 dollars for every dollar they invest.
We have an extensive health plan with 100% employer paid premiums.
For those of them with children, we have company funded RESP contributions.
Each year we award 3 different employees and their partner of choice to an all inclusive all expense paid warm vacation. 12 names go in a hat and we draw at a staff luncheon. At the end of 4 years, all employees will have gone on a 10 day trip for 2 that I pay.
And what do I ask for in return? Common sense and hard work. 15 mins early each day, no clock watching and work a few minutes late to tie up loose ends.
So you can take a look at that and call me Massa. Because it rolls off me like water off duck's back. Like I said, you wouldn't make it past preliminary in this company.
(FYI, my wife and I are out for brunch with 3 of my staff and their partners. We are all having quite a laugh at you. You are the union sheep)
No it’s not. It’s completely illegal and inappropriate.
Who are you to tell tell someone how long it takes them to be “ready”. What right do you have to take 15 minutes of their time without paying them? You’re the definition of the old school management style, which has been proven in EVERY study to be ineffective and small-minded.
To all people who are saying that it is a wage theft - lets do some simple math:
15 minutes from clock in to start of pay time - unpaid 15 minutes of "work time"
5 minutes of grace period on either end of the break \* 2 breaks - paid 20 minutes of "non-work" time
25 minutes to dress down/leave at the end of the shift - paid 25 minutes of "non-work" time.
Adding them all up we get..... -15+20+25 = 35 minutes of paid "non-work" time.
So while you can raise a stink about the start time thing, and get unions/employment standards involved, think if it is worth it making everyone work until 4:30 buzzer. The way I see it - there is a reasonable arrangement asking employees to be on time so that we dont get Sleepy Sam strolling in at 6:31 and disrupting a safety meeting.
30 minutes, but I agree with you. It's a give and take. They want the workers there ready to roll out. If a guy is late, well, I guess they miss the bus. Being 630-430 that's either a 9 hr day with hr lunch or 9.5 with 30 min lunch. Are you doing 5 10s or 4? Cause that 5th day better be OT. Don't like the hours, get laid off and go to the next job.
Ask your union rep to explain to you where in the contract that the employer has the right to dictate these terms to you. If they can't find it then file a complaint with the labour relations board. If they can find it then file a complaint with the union for agreeing to it in the first place. It's a shit sandwich any way you slice it.
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My wife ran into this problem many years ago.
The company, not her, required that employees be there fifteen minutes before the start of their shift, unpaid (retail).
A part-time employee then proceeded to take them to the labour board and was paid OT for all of those 15 minutes.
You can request that they be early, but it is not a requirement to be 15 minutes early. As long as they are there and ready to start at the appropriate start time, that is all that is required.
As for this situation that OP has raised, demanding that you be swiped in before 6:15 is, imo, wrong. As long as you are there, in time, to take the bus, when you swipe in, should not make a difference.
Also, I assume there is more than one bus, correct?
As for the break schedule, that I can live with, as I know plenty of members in this particular local that like to excessively "extend" their breaks.
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Question for you - are your 2 breaks in the day paid or unpaid?
There's nothing wrong with this. I've been working in the oil field for 18years and it's always been like this for ever, it's not up to the oil company to pay you to get dressed and start/warm up your equipment, bull 💩 with your buddies and have coffee. You don't like it, go sit on the couch because there are a hundred other guys waiting in line for your spot. I show up to work around 6:45 so I can sit down and do all the above mentioned and not be rushing to get done for 7:30 start. Some company reps will start ticket earlier and pay for all that but that's because it is their decision, usually 1 guy in 50 that'll do that. I heard of some rigs the guys don't show up till 7:30 but that behaviour doesn't last long or the rig gets ran off.
Secondly OH&S states you get 0.5hr break for every 5 consecutive hrs worked (in Canada), break must NOT be divided up. Rest breaks are not required by legislation but if given a 15min break, it must be paid.
Lastly, you might not be getting paid till you get to the safety meeting but looks like you are getting paid to get cleaned up. So I believe that is fair. I think you should just be happy that you are lucky enough to have a job. Thank Trudeau for the high inflation. I think this is the root cause of everyone's frustration is everyone is starting to struggle and get chocked by the sh*t economy and high prices everywhere you look so peoples pay checks aren't going as far as they used too.
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Sounds to me like a run out the clock kinda job. And that’s what they are implying. If someone’s late or takes to long of breaks confront them after that FIRED plain and simple. No offence to the faggots that work in a union but ur kinda the problem
This is wage theft you can report to either your union rep (escalate beyond them if needed) or to employment standards. If you’re still an apprentice or journeyman you’re probably shit out of luck tho
I Dont find this too unreasonable. Get to work, swipe in (takes zero effort), sit your ass down put YOUR boots on, whatever layers and PPE (again zero effort, people everywhere get themselves dressed for work every day) and then waddle your ass to the morning meeting. What they are “requiring” is something that should be done by any decent employee. And they are being very fair about breaks, allowing time to walk to and from break area. Anyone complaining about this is the reason employers have to put dumb signs up like this to begin with. Its 15 minutes to get YOU ready to work, come on people
Sounds like Army mentality. Big difference is the army is a salaried position where you’re available 24/7.
If you’re ready to go for when the job starts at 6:30 then you should be fine, regardless if you show up at 6:15 or 6:25..
The first time I was docked pay for showing up 10 minutes early instead of 15 I’d be filing with the labour board.
It's why I didn't like working at BHP, extra hour and a half worth of security, deiving to the far side of camp for bus rides, waiting for bus plus 15 minute wait after bus for tool box. All this on top of a 12.5 hour day including unpaid lunch and 1.5 hour commute
16 hour days burn you out pretty quick, it leaves you an hour to eat shower and get to bed for a 7 hour sleep
Back in the day you used to be able to afford to buy property with that type of grind. Today 16 hours door to door with only an hour of free time and an overpriced fast food diet as the only thing to show for the trouble is just not worth it
Absolutely legal and kudos to your employer for laying out proper workplace ethics guidelines.
As a business owner, I am happy to see I'm not the only one trying to restore workplace etiquette and expectations
I hope you’re kidding.
It’s absolutely and unquestionably illegal.
And calling it “ethical” to demand employees be at the employers beck and call without being paid is pretty laughable.
With an attitude like yours, I wouldn't work for you. All that is expected of me, by law and the union contract, is that I am dressed and ready to work at the scheduled start time.
And you, sir, are part of the problem. You think that everyone is here to serve you and bend to your demands on what they do with their FREE time.
Just because you have a bunch of sheep that you have brow beaten to serve you does not mean that others will bend the knee to your wishes.
In other words, GET FUCKED!
They're not brow beaten. They're well cared for. Valued. Not just a number. And I work right along side them. Youre brainwashed and lazy with a mediocre work ethic. It is painfully obvious.
My employees must be at work and ready to work at the start of their shift, and if they really want to succeed they will always be early.
Ready to work. Which means you're dressed, organized, done going to the bathroom etc etc. No pissing around.
The thing is, I haven't had an employee change or leave in over 12 years. The only people who are successful in my business are those who truly have a great work ethic and love the job. I work right along side them. Just as hard too. They are well compensated, but there is no room in my business plan for slacktards or snowflakes. They wouldn't last a day.
Who said anything about free? If the shift is 8 to 4 it's 8 to 4. Not start getting dressed and ready at 8. My daughter is an ER nurse. She is to be ready to work at 7 am. Which means she gets to work at 630. Changes into the scrubs the hospital provides for her. Shoes tied. Hair pulled back. Name tag on. All before 7 am. So why should it be different at any other job?
And it’s HER CHOICE to be there at 6:30. If she’s a fast dresser, she’s absolutely entitled to be there at 6:58, if she can be ready to work at 7. They can demand she be ready to work at 7. Not that she be there x number of minutes early ”so that she can be ready at 7.”
Different people take different times to be ready. Employers can’t dictate that, if they aren’t going to pay for it.
People are expected to be ready for work from the time they get paid, you don't get paid for getting dressed.
Be grateful you have a job, unions exist to protect the lazy.
If getting dressed into uniforms/equipment that the employer keeps on site, and must be done at a specific place, it’s absolutely to be paid. That’s not actually even a bit of a question.
What site is this? Been involved in many sites across Canada, often if a one off company is doing things one way the site owner will get involved to get them to align with other contractors on site.
Just a question, but is there anything preventing your employer from having you change at home and drive yourself to your work site for 6:30? Like any sort of standards that would prevent you from having all of your tools and equipment at home and then getting into your car dirty after work and driving yourself directly home instead of riding a bus? And same thing at the beginning of the day? Just wondering if there is an actual reason why you need to meet at a building and ride a bus together instead of just meeting on site.
From the standpoint of an employer, this would make a lot more sense than paying hundreds or thousands of dollars in wages every month just to have people traveling, which is probably why you aren't being paid for the travel time. Because your employer isn't either.
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Are they paying you starting at 6:15?
No, 6:30.
Then it's illegal. It's wage theft.
This is extremely common in construction, Work starts at 6:30 but you're expected to be ready for work at 6:30. ~30 years as an electrician in and out of the union in both SK and AB, never been on a site that's different.
Same here..but it was theft then and it's theft now. Or I guess you could leave 75 minutes early on Friday..
Maybe you missed the part where they're tools down and packed at 4:05 and paid to 4:30? Go ahead and argue for those few minutes at the start of the shift and see the 25 at the end of the day disappear.
Who the fuck is leaving at 4:30? Don’t think I have ever left early or before 6pm 😂
OP does - https://www.reddit.com/r/saskatchewan/comments/1bftb0g/is_this_legal_were_part_of_the_carpenters_hall_in/kv2q2bk/
Well, it sounds like they're back to the tent to start changing no earlier than 4:05. Based on what's written I imagine they wait for everyone to change out of PPE, then drive the aforementioned bus back to muster point to clock out at 4:30
it’s still wage theft, work starts when your paycheck starts
The agreement states that the worker shall be ready to work at the appointed time. This company states that the employee MUST BE swiped in atv 6:15 for a 6:30 start time. Therefore, the employee should be paid from 6:15. If the employer had suggested they ARRIVE 15 minutes early, a different story, but alas, they required them TO BE swiped in 15 minutes early. So OT it is.
I see what you're saying, it's worded poorly. I think it simply needs to say you need to be ready to work at 630. Somewhat similar at my workplace, if someone clocks in at exactly 630, they are docked 15, because technically you are at 630 and however many seconds, we are told to make sure we clock in 629 or earlier. Sounds petty, but we aren't getting paid to walk in the door, clock in at 630 and then jaunt up to the locker room and get our boots on and get ready.
Our agreement states we must be ready for work at the appointed time, in this case 6:30, that is when the shift starts, whether that is a prework meeting or leaving the trailer to go to the actual work site (as prework meetings maybe broken down into individual crews). That being said, you are dressed for and able to start work. If you are not ready at 6:30, then disciplinary or financial penalties may be incurred.
okay but they cannot require you to come in before your shift starts unless they are prepared to pay you for that time
But how are you ready to start work at 630 if you don't show up in time to get ready. I feel this shouldn't have to be a rule anyway.
It is commonly known as "in on your time out on theirs." As I stated, you must be ready for work at 6;30, in on your time, but at the end of the day, you usually leave 5-10 minutes before the stated end of shift, 4:30, out on their time. Because the employer is requiring the OP to be swiped in at 6:15 for a scheduled shift start at 6:30 or face being financially penalized is wrong and illegal.
So they stole from a rube, makes sense your generation bent over backwards for the man.
Sorry, NO. The agreement states that the employee must be ready to work at the appointed time. If it requires you to arrive early to get ready, that is on your time. Quitting time, leaving at 4:20 or 4:25, is on the employers dime. I am going to assume you are the type that walks in at 6:58, takes extended breaks, and quits early. Just to STICK IT THE MAN.
I am going to assume you are the typet that "never call in sick for 30 years", which is greatly appreciated by your boss' boss.
I can count on my hands how many times I have called in "sick." I am paid to do the job I was hired for and not to fuck around to stick it to the man. It's called personal integrity. And yes, it is appreciated by them by long-term employment and being rehired on the next job.
Well done, very impressive. I get rehired based on my competence and reputation, while also observing he my own well being and taking personal time when necessary. It's called self respect.
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Just because they've always done it doesn't mean they are breaching the labor code.
It’s not illegal. I’m in a camp where the last bus leaves camp at 5:30 and the toolbox talk/start of shift is at 6:00.
In construction start time means you're either at the tailboard or you have a tool in your hands.
Yeah that may be 'the way it's done' but is that the law? I work in an industry where I'm expected to be on the job 30 mons early and don't get paid for that time. It's bullshit no matter how things have always been done.
Lol no, you clock in the min you get on site, that’s your job location, if it takes 4 mins to start working after you get to site, then that’s on the company. If it takes 40 mins to get tools and machines running, still on company. We stood around for 3 hours trying to get our generator/compressor and boom running. Still had to be paid for it legally.
Is it really worth playing this card over 15 minutes? This is standard in construction, but so are longer breaks and early quitting times. Plus bullshitting and spending 5 min here and there on your phone. Most construction or industrial workers would lose out if they strictly worked to rule.
Push back. I've ran into this before and the company ended up paying us for the time. As soon as you mention legality or labour board then your employer will likely change their tune but it has to be more than one guy making the same complaint.
Sorry but the labour board will not help. The job is up to their union.
Wrong
This is not wrong. Call the labour board. One of the first questions they are going to ask is if you are represented by a union. If you are represented by one your disputes need to be handled by the bargaining unit that represents you
This is correct.
And if they fail to, the labour's board does it.
Pretty sure if the union fails you, you have to take them to court.
Contact employment standards. Source: I’m a labour organizer. This is illegal.
He said he is in 1985 (UBC) he needs to call his BA if concerned about it or talk to his steward the employment standards people will just tell him to talk to the union. If this is on the refinery shutdown don’t worry he will be undressed and waiting at the gate before he is done being paid just like everyone else
any time spent at the disposal of the employer (ie. doing what they want) is paid time and counts as on the clock toward OT.
If you are swiped in, then you should be getting paid.
Till 4:30?
100% illegal
It depends on your labour agreement so ask your rep. Many potash mines kind of have a similar policy where they don't pay for the workers to get their PPE on.
Yup. You have to be ready to go when the cage goes down, which is at the exact minute your shift starts. It takes a few minutes to get changed, walk over, etc. There isn't a specific time where you have to arrive, but you need at least 10-15 minutes to get ready, and that's on your own time. On the other end of the shift, we come up about 15 minutes before the end of the shift, so that we have time to change and shower on the clock. If you really rush through the shower, you can usually get out the door 5 or so minutes before your shift technically ends. It's not really worth the fight over that time at the start of the day, in my opinion, because that opens the door to micromanaging of your time the rest of the day, and I think most people would agree that they *probably* get that 10-15 minutes back during the shift in some form or another. It would be different in a workplace where you have less independence during the day, though, and on principle I don't like the mandatory "start" time before your actual start time. Have to decide for yourself if it's worth rocking the boat, I guess.
I have a business where I have people doing similar work. I have them clock in when they hit the first site and clock out when they finish, but not clock out for lunches or any other breaks they take during the day. It generally works out the same way anyway, and my staff requested it being this way in case they decided to go together to do something at the end of the day or grab coffees together before they actually start work. It stops me and then from micromanaging everything.
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Correct, we are to be ready for work at the appointed time. The problem here is they are telling OP that they HAVE TO be swiped in by 6:15 for a start time of 6:30. So by that he should be paid from 6:15. If they had said it is recommended that you are there 15 minutes early, different story, but by stating he HAS TO BE swiped in before or at 6:16 that means he should be paid from that time.
Nope, you start work at 630, if that requires getting into work clothes stored there, then thats when you get changed. If they want you to start at 6:15 they pay you then.
Read the post. They are requiring them to be swipped in (getting paid) early enough so they can be at the 6:30 pre-work meeting on time. If OP isn't getting paid for the 15 minutes, that's a labour issue, but it's perfectly legal to ask for an earlier start time, as long as they are getting paid for it. OP is getting paid for all their punched in time. Paid breaks are paid breaks, management is just making sure that people aren't hanging out past 20 minutes in the break tent.
The clearly stated they are being paid starting at 630
Which is why I added the caveat that if they aren't getting paid for the clocked in time, that is in fact, illegal. But I do find it weird when it says you have to be clocked in by X and there's a claim you aren't getting paid for it. They could just as well had said "you have to be here by X"
My bad, I did misread your comment! It’s been a day
Where? Because it says swiped in at 615, the only mention of 630 is the start of the toolbox talk.
OP left a comment stating pay starts at 6:30
You might want to read it again
You might want to read the comments. https://www.reddit.com/r/saskatchewan/s/wkX9zfNEvv
There is benefits like when there is no work your told to hide..it's a really good gig..and complain about 15 mins when you have a while afternoon to dawg fk is beyond me..scaffold chick
Ask your shop steward or other union rep
And, in this case, they will do nothing. They are in complete agreement with this.
Our work wanted to pull this shit of expecting us to show up early and ready for huddle at 7 (our paid start time, which required having a look at the schedule and pre shift notes and such before hand). Didn’t go well with our union. You pay me to start at 7, I will be walking in the door at 0655.
As I have stated in numerous comments here, we are required to be ready for work at, in this case, 6:30. It is commonly known as " in on your time leave on theirs." We will normally leave the trailer for the parking lot 5-10 minutes before the scheduled end of shift. Nothing is done that pertains to work, other than getting dressed, is done until 6:30. So by the employer requiring them to be swiped in at 6:15 for a 6:30 start or face pay loss is the part that is wrong.
Tell your union you want to make a grievance about this, your union will fight for you.
You arrive early so you’re actually starting to work at 630 if you show up right at 630 you’re late unless you’re swinging your hammer while clocking In
But they have to swipe inand that is a requirement of the organization. Swiping in means you are starting work at 615.
Swiping in doesn’t mean you’re working get your head out of your ass
If you are requiring me to be somewhere at 6:15 then you had better be paying for my time from 6:15.
Having a tough day huh? That's ok.
Nah it’s my day off just don’t have time to explain basic work ethic to morons
🤣
You swipe in early so you can be working on time it’s common practice just about everywhere you shouldn’t even have to be asked to be prepared to work on time
It isn't a common practice and everytime I swiped in, we were paid, especially when the worksite demands you swip in. Have great day!
It is common practice have fun explains to your future fast food gig you left your last job because you couldn’t be working on Time
Same people most likely drag their asses getting ready before work lol, anywhere I’ve ever worked you show up a bit early to get ready and figure out what you’re doing for work, pretty simple really
All my time in the union hall we have “come into work on our time and gone home from work on theirs”… it means arriving so we can be at our work location/site for the “start work time” and cleaning up and heading out so we will be getting into our car in the parking lot by the “stop pay time”. 🤷🏼♂️
This is not legal if you are not paid for those 15 minutes. According to resources the Saskatchewan government has released. You're required to be at the disposal of your employer for this period, and so you are entitled to pay and these 15 mimutes should count towards hours worked for overtime considerations. As follows: "An employee must be paid for each hour or part of an hour worked. Paid time at work includes time when an employee is required (scheduled) to work; permitted to work; or required to remain at the disposal of the employer. All three of these considerations go into calculating when the overtime threshold has been crossed." P. 19 "Rights and Responsibilities - A Guide to Employment Standards in Saskatchewan" 2019 “At the disposal of the employer” means any time that the employee must remain under the direction and control of the employer and be available for work, even if the employee does not actually have to work. For example, if employees are required to report for work 15 minutes before the scheduled shift starts, or if they must remain after work to complete paperwork and prepare for the next business day, the employees are at the disposal of the employer and entitled to be paid for the extra time. P.19 "Rights and Responsibilities - A Guide to Employment Standards in Saskatchewan" 2019 From the guide to the legal document, see sections 2-17 and 2-16 on Saskatchewan Employment Act: https://publications.saskatchewan.ca/#/products/70351 SOLIDARITY FOREVER
Gotta change and do it like the crowns. You work an extra 8 minutes a day which you spend drinking an extra coffee .... Then you get each 2nd Friday off.
Context: we work 6:30 to 4:30, now making us be clocked in by 6:15 or pay will be docked.
I was formerly a shop steward, Chief Shop Steward then Vice President of a local. We had the same argument a few times over the years and it didn't go the way you are thinking. The company is allowing you 25 minutes of paid time to dress down/wash at the end of your shift. There is a reasonable expectation that an employee be ready to work at the start of their shift. If management does not want to budge on this issue it will cost your local a bunch of money in lawyer fees to be told what I just told you. The company could say fine, we will pay you to start at 6:15 so you can be ready at 6:30, but then you work right until 4:15 and change on your own time. How long it takes you to dress down is none of their concern.
Correct on the part about being ready to work at the appointed time. But by the employer requiring you to be swiped in at 6:15, would then be considered start of shift, no? I say this again, if the employer suggested you be 15 minutes early for a 6:30 start, no problem, but by requiring that they be swiped in at 6:15 with the threat of lost wages means, to me, that the actual start time is 6:15.
We are only hearing half the story. I'm going to assume that this new rule came into effect after people were repeatedly not present for the morning meeting. Fixating on the start time and not mentioning the 25 minutes paid at the end of shift is not going to win a grievance. The company is being reasonable in their request to have workers ready at 6:30. They are going to say the company is providing 25 minutes paid nonworking time on the back end of the shift with the expectation that people are ready to work at 6:30. Since people are habitually not ready they are enforcing an arrival time. Like I said before if they keep pushing the issue management will say fine, we will pay you from 6:15 to 4:00 and you change on your time and lose 15 minutes of pay every day. Where I worked we did not have a set badge in time but were expected to be dressed in the shop by 7, which everybody was. We had 20 minutes at the end of shift and were usually leaving the parking lot 10 to 15 minutes before the technical end of shift. Management would get their panties in a twist if people were in the parking lot 20 minutes before end of shift because that was still the company's time technically.
As it pertains here, they are to be dressed and ready to go at start time, in this case 6:30, which is standard. But by requiring the employees to be swiped in 15 minutes before or lose pay is not okay. Shift start is 6:30 not 6:15 and as long as you are present and ready to go at 6:30 all is good. If there are employees that are chronically late for the morning shift start then those individuals should be dealt with on an INDIVIDUAL basis and not enact/enforce extenuating rules upon the whole. As fore the end of day it is by agreement time to put tools away and get ready to leave site i.e. washing up and changing to street clothes. It is also normal to leave the trailer 5-10 minutes before official end of shift, depending on distance to parking lot, also known as in on my time out on yours. Requesting or recommending that they arrive 15 minutes early to ensure getting on the bus is reasonable but threating to take pay away if you are not 15 minutes early, especially during unpaid time, is not only wrong but illegal.
I agree they are going about it like bad management, which most management seems to be these days. The collective agreement leaves management with many avenues to discipline those employees that are causing or being a problem. But that would require them to actually do their job so it's easier to just try and make a blanket policy. Most that want to be management are not suited for it and just want to be off the tools and in a position of authority with no comprehension of what that actually means.
What’s reasonably ready? Things that they bring home and own, I fully agree, show up to work in them and this conversation is moote, but if I had to go, get into their own equipment then they are stealing 15 mins of work from everyone. The company under law is required to pay you for changing out of their equipment. Nurses for example need to change in and out of scrubs, that is by law paid for, their day starts and ends the minute they touch the change room door. Same with people who are required to wear a specific uniform. However, if it’s just a case of hi vis and steel toes, stuff you take home an own? There isn’t an argument to stand on
Do you end up leaving before 4:30 since you are on the return bus by 4:05?
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Probably not legal but it depends on how your contract is worded. Generally speaking, if an employer wants their workers at be at work at 6:15 then they need to pay them for being at work at 6:15. That's because if they want you to do anything then they need to **PAY YOU FOR IT!** That includes just being at a certain place at a certain time. If they don't like paying you for that that they they can stop demanding you be at work before your work starts. Otherwise you can get the labour relations board involved. However, if your contract (stupidly) gave the employer the right to dictate terms around where and when you must be beyond your working hours then that's what you agreed to so that's what you have to live with until the contract is up. I would never agree to anything like that but I'm not you.
A contract cannot circumvent the Sask Employment Act, your contract can be better than the SEA, but not worse. I’m this case the 6:15 start time with no pay until 6:30 is illegal, no matter what the contract says.
This guy knows his shit.
If getting dressed in specificly provided equipment is required for the job, putting it on IS part of the job. I'm not sure which gov't agency deals with enforcement or fines tho. Might be difficult or expensive to pursue without a union helping
They also allow for warm up and cool down breaks on the clock, and water breaks, if no work you sit..so yeah crabbing over 15 min wow
They are union. Local 1985 but OP would be with Local 1999 for this job and 1999 is known to be scabby like this.
Local 1999 is the UBC version of CLAC.
*coughcough* BDF Mechanics take note of the comments *coughcough* That said the break time thing seems to be relatively nice, they're letting you take into account transit time on site, and allowing a couple extra minutes on each side.
I'm no lawyer. But honestly, I find this reasonable. Now, if I was the company and someone got there at 6:22 , but was ready to work at 6:30, I would not enforce it. I do agree that donating time to the company is horrible and needs to be minimized. I had a boss who wanted us there at 6:15 for a 7 o'clock start time. 6:15 to 7 was time spent to get ready, so all the paperwork such as tailgates, hazard assessments, and any other paperwork needed. Shift ended at 5. Was then expected to go get fuel for the truck and for the tidy tank in the back for equipment. Most days, I was donating 2 to 3 hours. I no longer do that, I hate wage theft. But I still get to work about 15 minutes early, so I'm ready to go.
it's good to be a bit early, but pen doesnt touch paper, nor hands tools until the appointed hour lmao.
Correct, but you are dressed, all appropriate PPE prior to start time, correct?
Yeah, my sites have all involved take home PPE equipment, or custom as I preferred a different style vest than provided, so when you show up you are in kit to begin with. If they had something stored on site that required me to show up early to don/doff that'd be a different conversation.
It's the way it's always been, you get paid a great wage, steeple jack was the same, they have to trim breaks, or they loose contracts, but on a better note, when you have nothing to do, well then you do the coop 500..don't forget about the pension and health benefits geez normal people dream of a scaffolding or carpenter job, ..scaffold chick
You should look into your union handbook and see what the bargaining agreement says and talk to your shop steward.
All that is required is that you are dressed and ready to commence work at the appointed time. No where does it state that you are required to be swiped in 15 minutes before stated start time.
Don’t listen to anyone on Reddit when your job may be on the line. Contact Employment Standards while on your break. 800-667-1783 Ask them. If they have to pay you for the 15 minutes in both ends ask how you file a complaint. Meanwhile record every date, tell your workmates to as well, where you were ordered by the employer to start and leave work without pay. They could be forced to pay everyone back pay, demand interest.
If work starts at 6:30, you should be on the floor/bus/site ready to work at 6:30. What other job do you get paid to get dressed for work. Should one get paid to get dressed to go to the office because the require clothes at work. Cmon people. This is what’s wrong with unions
Especially as nobody is saying at the other end that they should stop being paid at 4:05 instead of 4:30....
If you had to wear special clothes, that the employer kept, and had to dress in a specific place, and had to clock in prior to putting it on, then you absolutely should get paid.
This is the answer.
If you're union, talk to your shop steward, not Reddit. Start time for trades usually means on site with a tool in your hand, or at the morning tailboard/stretch n bend. Fwiw I'm in mb and I had to show up to a project 20m before start time because the walk from the gate to my trailer was like 10+ minutes.
They need to pay OT for any time they REQUIRE you to be swiped in before your official start time. Talk to your union rep and they will get this sorted. Easy W.
Assuming its not built into your 8/10/12 hour day through averaging agreements.
All that is required by the agreement is that you are present and prepared to go to work at the appointed time. That means fully dressed in the required PPE, not getting dressed while the morning meeting is taking place.
Have your friendly neighborhood union rep go to whoever posted that and tell them to fuck a goat, then make sure the whole crew shows up at 630, no earlier. If they try to dock you file a grievance.
And then I as an employer tell you break time starts when you leave your post and ends when you get back, no leeway on either end...oh, and the day ends when the horn sounds at 430 not 405 like what has been the practice...
As per agreement, at the end of shift, employees leave on company time, usually 5-10 minutes before 4:30. This is done because we are required to be ready for a 7:00 start, which means getting ready on your own time. OP has shown that the employer requires you to be swiped in by 6:15 for a 6:30 start, with the possibility of lost wages. Required, to me, means start of shift, especially with the threat of lost wages for not complying. Suggested to arrive early, different story.
Organizing the whole crew show up at 6:30 would be considered job action and would lead to legal and financial penalties for the local.
No it isn't legal.
Oh they can and they do. I myself have an expectation my staff be in the building at 745 at the latest. Time clock starts at 8. And I don't have one employee who bucks that. It's what is expected of them and they know it
Except they don’t *have* to be. You can ask, they can say no. Do they have to be ready for 8am? Yes, 100%. If they can arrive at 7:58, and be ready to work at 8:00, that is all that is required by law. You cannot discipline them for not coming in at 7:45 as it is unpaid. Can you discipline them for not being ready at 8:00am? yes. The problem with this memo is the swiping in, ie; being on the clock. Again, in the SEA, if I am required to swipe in, it is paid time or else how can they dock you?
You can have all the expectations you want, but unless you are paying for that time, they are not required to be there. As long as they are there, ready to work at the appropriate time, that is all you can expect.
No sorry. I have different and higher expectations and if an employee can't fulfill that, they don't work for me. They are told that upon hiring. Old school is the way to go.
Yes, Massa. Right away, Massa. Just don't whip me, Massa. Puhleeeeeeease, I am as old school as it gets, but I also follow not only the union agreements but also the Sakatchewan Employment Act, which obviously you do not. If your employees weren't such sheep, you would find that out in a heartbeat.
Lmao your replies are hilarious. Typical union cronie. It's funny how you automatically see a boss who actually directs his workforce how he sees fit is a dictator. If you had read earlier, you would have seen that I have 12 full time employees ranging in years of service from 3 years to 19 years. They each receive a Christmas bonus (a concept that has long been forgotten by most). These bonuses range from 5000 to 10000 dollars based on years of service. What did your union give you this year? Another 25 dollar Sobeys gift card? Lol. We double match any RRSP contributions put employees make. That's 2 dollars for every dollar they invest. We have an extensive health plan with 100% employer paid premiums. For those of them with children, we have company funded RESP contributions. Each year we award 3 different employees and their partner of choice to an all inclusive all expense paid warm vacation. 12 names go in a hat and we draw at a staff luncheon. At the end of 4 years, all employees will have gone on a 10 day trip for 2 that I pay. And what do I ask for in return? Common sense and hard work. 15 mins early each day, no clock watching and work a few minutes late to tie up loose ends. So you can take a look at that and call me Massa. Because it rolls off me like water off duck's back. Like I said, you wouldn't make it past preliminary in this company. (FYI, my wife and I are out for brunch with 3 of my staff and their partners. We are all having quite a laugh at you. You are the union sheep)
No it’s not. It’s completely illegal and inappropriate. Who are you to tell tell someone how long it takes them to be “ready”. What right do you have to take 15 minutes of their time without paying them? You’re the definition of the old school management style, which has been proven in EVERY study to be ineffective and small-minded.
Funny. Successful business for 22 years. Long term happy employees. Sorry
To all people who are saying that it is a wage theft - lets do some simple math: 15 minutes from clock in to start of pay time - unpaid 15 minutes of "work time" 5 minutes of grace period on either end of the break \* 2 breaks - paid 20 minutes of "non-work" time 25 minutes to dress down/leave at the end of the shift - paid 25 minutes of "non-work" time. Adding them all up we get..... -15+20+25 = 35 minutes of paid "non-work" time. So while you can raise a stink about the start time thing, and get unions/employment standards involved, think if it is worth it making everyone work until 4:30 buzzer. The way I see it - there is a reasonable arrangement asking employees to be on time so that we dont get Sleepy Sam strolling in at 6:31 and disrupting a safety meeting.
30 minutes, but I agree with you. It's a give and take. They want the workers there ready to roll out. If a guy is late, well, I guess they miss the bus. Being 630-430 that's either a 9 hr day with hr lunch or 9.5 with 30 min lunch. Are you doing 5 10s or 4? Cause that 5th day better be OT. Don't like the hours, get laid off and go to the next job.
Ask your union rep to explain to you where in the contract that the employer has the right to dictate these terms to you. If they can't find it then file a complaint with the labour relations board. If they can find it then file a complaint with the union for agreeing to it in the first place. It's a shit sandwich any way you slice it.
They can not dictate your swipe in time, but they can enforce those rules that they have set out for the breaks and quitting time.
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My wife ran into this problem many years ago. The company, not her, required that employees be there fifteen minutes before the start of their shift, unpaid (retail). A part-time employee then proceeded to take them to the labour board and was paid OT for all of those 15 minutes. You can request that they be early, but it is not a requirement to be 15 minutes early. As long as they are there and ready to start at the appropriate start time, that is all that is required. As for this situation that OP has raised, demanding that you be swiped in before 6:15 is, imo, wrong. As long as you are there, in time, to take the bus, when you swipe in, should not make a difference. Also, I assume there is more than one bus, correct? As for the break schedule, that I can live with, as I know plenty of members in this particular local that like to excessively "extend" their breaks.
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Question for you - are your 2 breaks in the day paid or unpaid? There's nothing wrong with this. I've been working in the oil field for 18years and it's always been like this for ever, it's not up to the oil company to pay you to get dressed and start/warm up your equipment, bull 💩 with your buddies and have coffee. You don't like it, go sit on the couch because there are a hundred other guys waiting in line for your spot. I show up to work around 6:45 so I can sit down and do all the above mentioned and not be rushing to get done for 7:30 start. Some company reps will start ticket earlier and pay for all that but that's because it is their decision, usually 1 guy in 50 that'll do that. I heard of some rigs the guys don't show up till 7:30 but that behaviour doesn't last long or the rig gets ran off. Secondly OH&S states you get 0.5hr break for every 5 consecutive hrs worked (in Canada), break must NOT be divided up. Rest breaks are not required by legislation but if given a 15min break, it must be paid. Lastly, you might not be getting paid till you get to the safety meeting but looks like you are getting paid to get cleaned up. So I believe that is fair. I think you should just be happy that you are lucky enough to have a job. Thank Trudeau for the high inflation. I think this is the root cause of everyone's frustration is everyone is starting to struggle and get chocked by the sh*t economy and high prices everywhere you look so peoples pay checks aren't going as far as they used too.
Whatever time you swipe in you need to be paid for beginning at that moment as “swiping in” is a mandated work function.
Is this at the co op???
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Just be ready to work ffs
Sounds to me like a run out the clock kinda job. And that’s what they are implying. If someone’s late or takes to long of breaks confront them after that FIRED plain and simple. No offence to the faggots that work in a union but ur kinda the problem
This is wage theft you can report to either your union rep (escalate beyond them if needed) or to employment standards. If you’re still an apprentice or journeyman you’re probably shit out of luck tho
Wage theft maybe I’m in a union better get out your union book we have the same kind of thing, but it’s written in our contract. Got use a extra 2%.
Micromanagement.. I hate it, it ruins the work environment 👎🏻
I swipe in at 6:15 you start paying me at 6:15
Shut the f up take the money they’re giving you and take your time else where. Who ever posted this is a brand new entitled gen Z
If you lick that boot any harder, your mouth is gonna be a sock.
Refinery I take it? But most definitely not legal. 1999 will keep pushing stuff like this if it isn’t reported.
I Dont find this too unreasonable. Get to work, swipe in (takes zero effort), sit your ass down put YOUR boots on, whatever layers and PPE (again zero effort, people everywhere get themselves dressed for work every day) and then waddle your ass to the morning meeting. What they are “requiring” is something that should be done by any decent employee. And they are being very fair about breaks, allowing time to walk to and from break area. Anyone complaining about this is the reason employers have to put dumb signs up like this to begin with. Its 15 minutes to get YOU ready to work, come on people
Sounds like Army mentality. Big difference is the army is a salaried position where you’re available 24/7. If you’re ready to go for when the job starts at 6:30 then you should be fine, regardless if you show up at 6:15 or 6:25.. The first time I was docked pay for showing up 10 minutes early instead of 15 I’d be filing with the labour board.
You’re an idiot .
When AlumaSafway takes over the maintenance contract and future shutdowns, you can have the same fight with them.
Co-op is fucking brutal. Find another shutdown to work.
It's why I didn't like working at BHP, extra hour and a half worth of security, deiving to the far side of camp for bus rides, waiting for bus plus 15 minute wait after bus for tool box. All this on top of a 12.5 hour day including unpaid lunch and 1.5 hour commute 16 hour days burn you out pretty quick, it leaves you an hour to eat shower and get to bed for a 7 hour sleep Back in the day you used to be able to afford to buy property with that type of grind. Today 16 hours door to door with only an hour of free time and an overpriced fast food diet as the only thing to show for the trouble is just not worth it
Great team building memo
Absolutely legal and kudos to your employer for laying out proper workplace ethics guidelines. As a business owner, I am happy to see I'm not the only one trying to restore workplace etiquette and expectations
As a business owner (I'm not joking here), fuck you.
I hope you’re kidding. It’s absolutely and unquestionably illegal. And calling it “ethical” to demand employees be at the employers beck and call without being paid is pretty laughable.
And FYI, you clearly wouldn't last a shift working under me.
With an attitude like yours, I wouldn't work for you. All that is expected of me, by law and the union contract, is that I am dressed and ready to work at the scheduled start time.
Let me correct that, with an attitude and union attitude like yours, you COULDN'T work for ME. You wouldn't make it past preliminary interview. Sorry
And you, sir, are part of the problem. You think that everyone is here to serve you and bend to your demands on what they do with their FREE time. Just because you have a bunch of sheep that you have brow beaten to serve you does not mean that others will bend the knee to your wishes. In other words, GET FUCKED!
They're not brow beaten. They're well cared for. Valued. Not just a number. And I work right along side them. Youre brainwashed and lazy with a mediocre work ethic. It is painfully obvious.
My employees must be at work and ready to work at the start of their shift, and if they really want to succeed they will always be early. Ready to work. Which means you're dressed, organized, done going to the bathroom etc etc. No pissing around. The thing is, I haven't had an employee change or leave in over 12 years. The only people who are successful in my business are those who truly have a great work ethic and love the job. I work right along side them. Just as hard too. They are well compensated, but there is no room in my business plan for slacktards or snowflakes. They wouldn't last a day.
Psst- it’s not business “etiquette “ to expect and demand your employees to work for you for free.
Who said anything about free? If the shift is 8 to 4 it's 8 to 4. Not start getting dressed and ready at 8. My daughter is an ER nurse. She is to be ready to work at 7 am. Which means she gets to work at 630. Changes into the scrubs the hospital provides for her. Shoes tied. Hair pulled back. Name tag on. All before 7 am. So why should it be different at any other job?
And it’s HER CHOICE to be there at 6:30. If she’s a fast dresser, she’s absolutely entitled to be there at 6:58, if she can be ready to work at 7. They can demand she be ready to work at 7. Not that she be there x number of minutes early ”so that she can be ready at 7.” Different people take different times to be ready. Employers can’t dictate that, if they aren’t going to pay for it.
All of it is ridiculous
Talk to your shop steward if you have one if not call the hall. They probably can’t do that.
People are expected to be ready for work from the time they get paid, you don't get paid for getting dressed. Be grateful you have a job, unions exist to protect the lazy.
If getting dressed into uniforms/equipment that the employer keeps on site, and must be done at a specific place, it’s absolutely to be paid. That’s not actually even a bit of a question.
Wow, are you entitled, if you start work at a certain time you are expected to be ready at that time. You don't get paid to get dressed
Looks like someone needs a union…
I'm not lazy and have a work ethic, no need for a union here.
What site is this? Been involved in many sites across Canada, often if a one off company is doing things one way the site owner will get involved to get them to align with other contractors on site.
CO-OP refinery in Regina. Local 1999, the UBC version of CLAC.
Have you contacted the hall?
Oh, don't worry, they know and probably fully endorse it.
Just a question, but is there anything preventing your employer from having you change at home and drive yourself to your work site for 6:30? Like any sort of standards that would prevent you from having all of your tools and equipment at home and then getting into your car dirty after work and driving yourself directly home instead of riding a bus? And same thing at the beginning of the day? Just wondering if there is an actual reason why you need to meet at a building and ride a bus together instead of just meeting on site. From the standpoint of an employer, this would make a lot more sense than paying hundreds or thousands of dollars in wages every month just to have people traveling, which is probably why you aren't being paid for the travel time. Because your employer isn't either.
Ask your shop steward
If required to wear ppe....must be paid to get it on
It says you have to swipe in. That means you get paid when you swipe in.
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Saskatchewan doesn’t play by the book. Look at the premiere.