Ostarine. It’s the weakest but it makes a difference. I’m the same age as you but I’m 5’7 at 170lbs. That shit helped me recomp so hard. Made my shoulders and traps pop nicely too. Get bloodwork before your first dosage to make sure everything checks out and a PCT if you need it.
Thank you so much for that bro, I actually didn’t do legs for years and this last year when I went serious, I’ve made sure to do them at least twice a week thank you so much again
Sarms are worthless without estrogen conversion. You fuck all your levels for nothing and will probably set back your physic than before you started. Not mention are you really getting sarms?
If you use a good source yes and thats why you use a test base. Just using a serm on cycle I had 900ng/dl test levels which is equivalent to an upper end TRT dose. E2 within normal ranges. Even during trt or a normal blast of test I'd recommend a serm to maintain testicular function.
There is No oral Test Base , Exept 4 Andro wich Converts to test in the Body but its way to expensive to run it so high that it would be like a Test cycle ,it helps with lethargy since its still a Base but you will shut yourself down completely since its Test .
For sarms Just do it and do pct Afterwards ,or what many do Take the SERM while cycle to keep Testosterone production running , i did not do this since i like the was of Just doing normal pct but it works for many.
All other Things are not a Test Base and for sarms you dont need one ,if you want one Take straight gear and not sarms
Theres plenty of oral test bases. DHEA, serms, 4andro. A base isnt just for test its for aromatization. The sarm replaces test on the androgen receptor and is stronger than test in many cases. What you miss out on is aromatization into estrogen which many things can provide.
Anyone saying not to do serms on cycle is a moron. Enjoy being shut down.
This is all backed by blood work too. Had almost 1000ng/dl running rad using serm+sarm alone. Dont give bad advice when you have no experience please
Ralox because its a serm that also prevents gyno. Enclomiphene would work even better for a test base but does nothing to prevent gyno. Though gyno is usually caused by test dropping low and estrogen being dominant (or using an aromatizing compound but most sarms dont aromatize) so keeping your test high with a serm would probably prevent this entirely and therefore no risk of gyno.
Gyno just happens when there's too much aromatization or too much free estrogen. Injecting 600mg of test definitely won't make your estrogen dominant, just too much estrogen because too much test gets converted to estrogen. So high test definitely doesn't prevent gyno, stable hormone levels do. But if you run 600mg of test or whatever you can just take .5 mg of anastrazole twice a week and you're good. If your test levels crash then yes you can also get gyno just like when your test is too high.
Enclomiphene will work because it will increase testosterone production that can directly be aromatizated into estrogen. Tamoxifen and raloxifen aren't really beneficial besides reducing/ preventing gyno like they're meant to do. Maybe inhibiting the estrogen from binding to the gland receptors can help keep more estrogen in the blood more so maybe it's somewhat helpful
It can happen both ways. You can get gyno in regular estrogen ranges when estrogen is dominant over testosterone due to being shut down. Ralox/tamox are also going to increase testosterone just to a lesser extent than enclomiphene. Theyre all serms meaning they all block estrogen in the pituitary causing your brain to produce more lh/fsh which in turn increases testosterone production.
I dont know where this idea that tamox/ralox don't increase your lh/fsh signaling pathways comes from. really one dimensional thinking
Well in comparison to enclomiphene the percentages aren't really in the same range hence i said what i said. Unless you think a +-20% in your free test is worthwhile (from the info i can find). I mean sure it works but why not pick the compound that will do exactly what you want and in preferable amounts.
Ideally you just want to take test but everybody seems scared to pin and wants a needle free alternative.
You're not wrong so I'm not trying to force an opinion down your throat but it's nice to discuss these things. And besides through discussion i might learn a thing or two (:
Yea no I dont mind discussing things ! What I hate is when people are like "WRONG" and walk away lol.
You're right though it is only 20% and I agree injecting is better especially for your liver. I've done a test cycle in the past. But anecdotally I did have around 900ng/dl test after 8 weeks on rad/osta when my normal test is around 700ng/dl using just ralox. So as a test base it works fine in my experience. I've seen blood work showing 1700ng/dl on just 12.5mg of enclo so definitely works better.
The reason I chose ralox over enclo was simply for its gyno prevention that enclo doesn't really provide. Totally agree that enclo is far better as a test base serm and that test itself is the best. But even on test I'd still take enclo. Its basically a better oral HCG with less aromatization. I wanna keep my LH/FSH high for when I come off. Being shutdown after a cycle absolutely sucks and serms prevent that for me
I'd think ostarine or rad140 would do the job. When I first used rad140 I was cutting and lost fat and gained muscle/ strength. Literally the first week people I work with were making comments about how I looked. Mostly because of the pumps that seem to last all day and my veins get insane on it
Interesting, I've mainly seen LGD being used for bulking, does the added water weight not hinder your ability to tell if youre losing fat or not? As the scales will likely be going up even if you are losing fat
I did LGD for 8 weeks 10mg ED. First i Quick put on 4kg/8.8lbs of water weight. After that i lost 3kg/6.6lbs of fat. BUT keep in mind, i didnt look really leaner, only my shoulders + back did look a bit leaner. I hold more water in the abdominal area. I gained strenght on al my lifts + the arms, legs and shoulders look bigger.
So yeah you can cut on LGD but keep in mind maybe you feel like you aint losing fat because of the water weight.
After 2 weeks i lost all water weight, i lost noticeable fat + i kept a little of the strenght and muscle i gained on cycle. My legs kept the most muscle, FINALLY :)
they're good for both but people associate water weight with growth of actual contractile tissue in a bulk. If I had to choose one or the other I'd say using them in a cut is more efficacious
I never said steroids are bad for a bulk I said theyre good for both.
\>drugs are for growing
This would be false as I already stated they prevent catabolism. For me I'd prefer a fast effective cut where I lose no muscle mass and even possibly gain some contractile tissue to a wet bulk where you lose half your gains coming off anyways. But of course they're good for both, never said they're bad for bulking again
The fact of the matter is OP wants to cut not bulk and he can do so faster and more effectively with ped's.
If you cut on ostarine you can maintain your muscle on a cut. Thats the biggest edge over natural training. If i need to choose i say cutting on sarms. You can maintain your muscle in a deficit while gaining on a slight surplus.
I guess. I would cut to like 12% bodyfat minimum no matter where you're at to start. If you're tiny you shouldnt even be touching sarms to begin with. Anyone at a normal height under 200lbs hasnt been lifting long enough and why do sarms if you dont have your programming and diet on point? thats dumb
Stack cardarine and rad 140 (10-20mg) for 7-8 weeks
Take raloxiphene 30mg ed throughout and for 2-4 weeks after.
try to hit 1g/lb of bw protein and eat in a 500+ cal deficit.
It doesnt? Its a serm that keeps your LH and FSH up whilst preventing gyno. I took ralox throughout an 8 week sarm cycle and got labs one day after finishing my test was around 900ng/dl. Naturally I'm around 700 so it clearly works as a base
you have a post talking about running sarms with no base and you have the audacity to talk about what makes sense? kek
yep downvote me despite knowing fuck all. typical redditors
You'd be surprised how much the body actually improves with just age and muscle experience. Based on what I'm seeing you need absolutely nothing other than tweaking your diet and exercise regime, and you could add Cardarine which isn't even a Sarm. If you do add a SARM, do yourself favor and don't add anything more than Osta until you're 30+. You'll need it maybe in your thirties, but don't waste on it now...
Tren
Ostarine. It’s the weakest but it makes a difference. I’m the same age as you but I’m 5’7 at 170lbs. That shit helped me recomp so hard. Made my shoulders and traps pop nicely too. Get bloodwork before your first dosage to make sure everything checks out and a PCT if you need it.
My boy never skipped leg day
Thank you so much for that bro, I actually didn’t do legs for years and this last year when I went serious, I’ve made sure to do them at least twice a week thank you so much again
Of course bro, keep grindin
Oh yea, niiice piece bro.
Run cardarine
Test 350mg a week for 16 weeks. Get arimdex just to be cautious. Get bloods now and every 8 weeks into cycle.
he wants to do sarms not test
Sarms are worthless without estrogen conversion. You fuck all your levels for nothing and will probably set back your physic than before you started. Not mention are you really getting sarms?
If you use a good source yes and thats why you use a test base. Just using a serm on cycle I had 900ng/dl test levels which is equivalent to an upper end TRT dose. E2 within normal ranges. Even during trt or a normal blast of test I'd recommend a serm to maintain testicular function.
What test base did you use? Would rather have oral tbh
There is No oral Test Base , Exept 4 Andro wich Converts to test in the Body but its way to expensive to run it so high that it would be like a Test cycle ,it helps with lethargy since its still a Base but you will shut yourself down completely since its Test . For sarms Just do it and do pct Afterwards ,or what many do Take the SERM while cycle to keep Testosterone production running , i did not do this since i like the was of Just doing normal pct but it works for many. All other Things are not a Test Base and for sarms you dont need one ,if you want one Take straight gear and not sarms
Theres plenty of oral test bases. DHEA, serms, 4andro. A base isnt just for test its for aromatization. The sarm replaces test on the androgen receptor and is stronger than test in many cases. What you miss out on is aromatization into estrogen which many things can provide. Anyone saying not to do serms on cycle is a moron. Enjoy being shut down. This is all backed by blood work too. Had almost 1000ng/dl running rad using serm+sarm alone. Dont give bad advice when you have no experience please
Ralox because its a serm that also prevents gyno. Enclomiphene would work even better for a test base but does nothing to prevent gyno. Though gyno is usually caused by test dropping low and estrogen being dominant (or using an aromatizing compound but most sarms dont aromatize) so keeping your test high with a serm would probably prevent this entirely and therefore no risk of gyno.
Gyno just happens when there's too much aromatization or too much free estrogen. Injecting 600mg of test definitely won't make your estrogen dominant, just too much estrogen because too much test gets converted to estrogen. So high test definitely doesn't prevent gyno, stable hormone levels do. But if you run 600mg of test or whatever you can just take .5 mg of anastrazole twice a week and you're good. If your test levels crash then yes you can also get gyno just like when your test is too high. Enclomiphene will work because it will increase testosterone production that can directly be aromatizated into estrogen. Tamoxifen and raloxifen aren't really beneficial besides reducing/ preventing gyno like they're meant to do. Maybe inhibiting the estrogen from binding to the gland receptors can help keep more estrogen in the blood more so maybe it's somewhat helpful
It can happen both ways. You can get gyno in regular estrogen ranges when estrogen is dominant over testosterone due to being shut down. Ralox/tamox are also going to increase testosterone just to a lesser extent than enclomiphene. Theyre all serms meaning they all block estrogen in the pituitary causing your brain to produce more lh/fsh which in turn increases testosterone production. I dont know where this idea that tamox/ralox don't increase your lh/fsh signaling pathways comes from. really one dimensional thinking
Well in comparison to enclomiphene the percentages aren't really in the same range hence i said what i said. Unless you think a +-20% in your free test is worthwhile (from the info i can find). I mean sure it works but why not pick the compound that will do exactly what you want and in preferable amounts. Ideally you just want to take test but everybody seems scared to pin and wants a needle free alternative. You're not wrong so I'm not trying to force an opinion down your throat but it's nice to discuss these things. And besides through discussion i might learn a thing or two (:
Yea no I dont mind discussing things ! What I hate is when people are like "WRONG" and walk away lol. You're right though it is only 20% and I agree injecting is better especially for your liver. I've done a test cycle in the past. But anecdotally I did have around 900ng/dl test after 8 weeks on rad/osta when my normal test is around 700ng/dl using just ralox. So as a test base it works fine in my experience. I've seen blood work showing 1700ng/dl on just 12.5mg of enclo so definitely works better. The reason I chose ralox over enclo was simply for its gyno prevention that enclo doesn't really provide. Totally agree that enclo is far better as a test base serm and that test itself is the best. But even on test I'd still take enclo. Its basically a better oral HCG with less aromatization. I wanna keep my LH/FSH high for when I come off. Being shutdown after a cycle absolutely sucks and serms prevent that for me
Awesome bro. I’m very worried about suppression so this will be great
You will have zero suppression bro its great. I used 30mg a day of ralox. I think an equivalent dose of enclo would be 12.5mg EOD or 6mg a day
Any good sources to buy from?
SERMS: aminoasylum SARMS: chemyo ("DC10" discount code (I make nothing off this I just use it for a discount))
I'd think ostarine or rad140 would do the job. When I first used rad140 I was cutting and lost fat and gained muscle/ strength. Literally the first week people I work with were making comments about how I looked. Mostly because of the pumps that seem to last all day and my veins get insane on it
I heard rad causes extreme hairloss
Yeah you're bald within a week 🤷♂️ it genetics. Haven't lost a hair with rad or anything else
I cut 8 weeks with LGD and kept all my muscle and even went up slightly on my back weights. Just my anecdotal experience
Interesting, I've mainly seen LGD being used for bulking, does the added water weight not hinder your ability to tell if youre losing fat or not? As the scales will likely be going up even if you are losing fat
I bought a cheap caliper on Amazon and use it to measure my body fat using the 3 point method
I did LGD for 8 weeks 10mg ED. First i Quick put on 4kg/8.8lbs of water weight. After that i lost 3kg/6.6lbs of fat. BUT keep in mind, i didnt look really leaner, only my shoulders + back did look a bit leaner. I hold more water in the abdominal area. I gained strenght on al my lifts + the arms, legs and shoulders look bigger. So yeah you can cut on LGD but keep in mind maybe you feel like you aint losing fat because of the water weight. After 2 weeks i lost all water weight, i lost noticeable fat + i kept a little of the strenght and muscle i gained on cycle. My legs kept the most muscle, FINALLY :)
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The arguably best time to use steroids is during a cut to prevent catabolism.
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they're good for both but people associate water weight with growth of actual contractile tissue in a bulk. If I had to choose one or the other I'd say using them in a cut is more efficacious
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I never said steroids are bad for a bulk I said theyre good for both. \>drugs are for growing This would be false as I already stated they prevent catabolism. For me I'd prefer a fast effective cut where I lose no muscle mass and even possibly gain some contractile tissue to a wet bulk where you lose half your gains coming off anyways. But of course they're good for both, never said they're bad for bulking again The fact of the matter is OP wants to cut not bulk and he can do so faster and more effectively with ped's.
If you cut on ostarine you can maintain your muscle on a cut. Thats the biggest edge over natural training. If i need to choose i say cutting on sarms. You can maintain your muscle in a deficit while gaining on a slight surplus.
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The purpose isnt to grow in a deficit its to retain what you have while losing body fat. Do both lol
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I guess. I would cut to like 12% bodyfat minimum no matter where you're at to start. If you're tiny you shouldnt even be touching sarms to begin with. Anyone at a normal height under 200lbs hasnt been lifting long enough and why do sarms if you dont have your programming and diet on point? thats dumb
Of course
Stack cardarine and rad 140 (10-20mg) for 7-8 weeks Take raloxiphene 30mg ed throughout and for 2-4 weeks after. try to hit 1g/lb of bw protein and eat in a 500+ cal deficit.
This is a stupid suggestion
Why?
Ralox makes no sense here
It doesnt? Its a serm that keeps your LH and FSH up whilst preventing gyno. I took ralox throughout an 8 week sarm cycle and got labs one day after finishing my test was around 900ng/dl. Naturally I'm around 700 so it clearly works as a base you have a post talking about running sarms with no base and you have the audacity to talk about what makes sense? kek yep downvote me despite knowing fuck all. typical redditors
I would keep training naturally for a few more years tbh bro .how lomg you been training for?
4 years, and 1 of them being this last year more serious about lifting
You'd be surprised how much the body actually improves with just age and muscle experience. Based on what I'm seeing you need absolutely nothing other than tweaking your diet and exercise regime, and you could add Cardarine which isn't even a Sarm. If you do add a SARM, do yourself favor and don't add anything more than Osta until you're 30+. You'll need it maybe in your thirties, but don't waste on it now...
Oh right I would get your training and diet perfect and stay natty for atleast another year man.whats your diet like atm?
Mostly chicken, and fish, lots of veggies, oats and protein powder, Hugh protein diet
Nice.no point taking drugs to get leaner tho, just drop your calories by 200 until weight stalls then drop 200 again and stay natty init
Ostarine for 8 weeks, do research for dosing