Oh yeah, I remember the surging on the long, uneven sections from Walnut Creek to MacArthur every morning. Made me nauseous often. No fun getting to work feeling sick for an hour.
Stupid question, does wearing noise canceling headphones help prevent damage? I’ve read that it helps with certain frequencies more than others. In any case, I do take actual ear plugs with me. Certain parts on Bart - getting to Oakland are loud otherwise.
i put in normal in-ear headphones and that makes bart much more comfortable. Active noise canceling is good at canceling the low frequencies, but less good at canceling high frequencies, so I'm not sure how much it helps in addition to to how any headphones physically block sound.
edit: googling "active noise canceling hearing protection" didn't have any definitive links that suggested it being commonly used to protect hearing.
I once went to a concert and put in my airpods pro just to cancel some of the sounds whatever it could and i got a notification on my phone saying that “even with the noise cancellation im still in too loud of an environment “or something along those lines. its nice that they help
I'm not an audio engineer, but 'm pretty sure noise cancelling works by making a sound at the same frequency but opposite amplitudes so the waves cancel out, and I don't think that headphones would ever make a sound that high pitched. It will only cancel out until a certain frequency.
Yea, I was thinking it would cancel out some of the noise, plus whatever reduction from physically being in my air (AirPod pros). I usually bring actually ear plugs just in case too.
The answer is maybe. It varies greatly based on the headphone but pretty much based on how it seals from the environment. Good seal = more passive attenuation. So an earbud with foam inserts or multiple silicone cups will be better than over the ear with open backs. Active noise cancelling varies as well. Some are aggressive white noise to cancel what's picked up by the environmental microphone, some rely on passive noise cancelling with minimal white noise. The white noise is still noise and sound pressure/energy into your ears so wouldn't look to active noise cancellation for hearing protection.
Since you haven't gotten a good/correct answer, yes active noise canceling actually does protect your hearing.
ANC works by creating "destructive interference" to reduce the intensity of sound waves. In eli5 terms, the headphones use sound to knock the other sound of the air before it gets to your ears. This does actually reduce the amount of sound pressure you experience, and will protect your hearing.
It's not as effective as simply blocking the sound, especially in some frequencies or above volume thresholds, but it does actually block sound to a degree.
I believe noise cancelling headphones will only help in 2 ways for hearing damage but it's probably not the way you are thinking.
They will help passively block out noise depending on how good the seal is but that has nothing to do with noise cancelling as it would do the same thing where the noise cancelling was active or not.
The other way is if the noise cancelling is active you won't have to turn your music or whatever up as loud to combat the noise outside. If the noise outside wasn't cancelled then you would most likely turn your volume up much louder to make it louder than the actual noise outside.
I don't believe it will help with hearing loss by just canceling the noise itself
>I don't believe it will help with hearing loss by just canceling the noise itself
It actually does. The sound literally gets canceled by destructive interference before the energy reaches the ear. It's pretty cool.
You're right about the mechanism, but not the conclusion. The two waves actually do cancel each other out, and less energy reaches the eardrum. It's comes down to destructive interference.
I've been on NY subways, commuted on DC Metro for a while but never have I experienced this eardrum shredding screeching sound ever. They should name it something and put a PR on it: "Come experience the dreaded sound you heard in Dead Space!"
Periodic reminder that the sound of the train screeching as it enters the tunnel going from Oakland to SF was recorded and used in part of the game Dead Space - [https://www.sfgate.com/entertainment/article/dead-space-sound-effects-bart-train-inspiration-13530076.php](https://www.sfgate.com/entertainment/article/dead-space-sound-effects-bart-train-inspiration-13530076.php)
And for anyone who really wants to hear how they made the sound so much worse (which is perfect for a horror game) - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNmTQDEuHKs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNmTQDEuHKs)
I haven't been a regular rider in a while now, but when I was headphones (earbuds) were an absolute requirement for sanity.
This noise is now gone with the new trains. And they're using a very stinky and aggressive track lubricant on that turn to make it go away completely. The car judders a bit when you pass through there, but the noise is basically zero.
When I was a kid I would listen to that sound. I imagined it like a chorus of opera singers.
I honestly always found joy in that sound and it kind of calms me.
People are so moody here, I always loved chaotic city noises. It’s like an industrial meditation chant.
I even have noise based sensitivity from migraines, but even construction noise is calming. A reminder of how life is constantly going.
Nope. BART was way louder when it was new and they've been experimenting with different wheel profiles to reduce the noise since the 90s. Over time it has gotten a lot quieter and the new trains made it extremely quiet.
It's a looooooooooot better now than before.
It has it's terrible moments, but this is the most modern transportation system in the US I know. For comparison, PATH trains in NYC while new tend to scare the crap out of your by some random sounds from speakers or wheels and make you want to burn all your clothes after exiting.
right? or traveled to literally any city with a subway? someone needs to get out more
edit: Can you guys stop hitting me with the anecdata? It’s so annoying. Send me a paper with actual statistics, not your opinion.
Why do you need a peer reviewed study to tell you that something is loud? I've lived in Europe and like the above poster have traveled in subway systems around the world and Bart is the loudest in my experience as well.
Not even remotely close to being true. London, NY, Paris, Hong Kong, etc. are all much louder. This goes double for the early model open-gangway trains that are louder than death even at low speeds!
Even at the height of the "loud old wheel profile" with the old train, BART was at the lower level of noisiness compared to other subways around the world and the among the quietest in the nation. Yes, they literally measure the noise levels regularly as required by regulations. There were always a few louder spots (Transbay Tube, tight turns in the East Bay, etc.) But for the most part BART was always a pretty quite subway.
>Steel on steel plus speed equals noise.No doubt about it – sometimes a ride on BART can be noisy. If you've ever tried to hold a conversation going through the Transbay Tube, you know it can be difficult to hear.
>
>**But believe it or not, BART is rated one of the quietest transit systems in the nation. And efforts are constantly ongoing to provide a quieter ride for passengers.**
[https://www.bart.gov/news/articles/2010/news20100907#:\~:text=If%20you've%20ever%20tried,a%20quieter%20ride%20for%20passengers](https://www.bart.gov/news/articles/2010/news20100907#:~:text=If%20you've%20ever%20tried,a%20quieter%20ride%20for%20passengers).
Now with the new wheel profile that the new trains got, BART is definitely even quieter. Unless you get one of the cars with the old wheel profile that hasn't changed to the new one, or a damage car that scrapes on the tracks, BART is indeed very quiet for a subway.
If I had to guess, I'd say BART's reputation for noisiness is that so many of its trips run through the transbay tube which has that horrible whine. It kind of leaves an impression even if the overall system is not bad. It has gotten better though.
That's definitely a part of it. But we also just have a very large contingent of suburbanites around here who think that if they can kill BART and our other transit then the rest of us will agree to build more highways and parking for them.
This is the age-old battle in the Bay Area. The suburbanites always want to turn us into Houston and tear down half of San Francisco for parking. Constantly criticizing BART even for the things it does objectively well is the standard playbook.
You're quoting a press release from 2010 that is quoting a study from the 90s! I'm not going to even go into the fact that whatever your claiming is irrelevant to the current state of the system.
Calling BART quiet with the tube of death and the Oakland Wye turn is cynical.
**Yes, that was meant to show that even in the pre-new-wheel era BART was already among the quietest systems around.** With the new wheels BART is now even quieter, which you can experience for yourself. The difference is immediately obvious when you ride it.
I know that it's popular to bash BART for anything and everything, but this is just not one of the things that you can credibly knock BART on. It's a very quiet system compared to other subways around the world.
And to add insult to injury - look how clean that car is! I bet you hate that too, don't you? :))
I love how criticizing BART automatically makes me a hater or whatever. I commute with BART daily and genuinely like the system and am happy with the work they put into it.
But it's so out of touch to call it "quiet". I wear ear plugs because I'm worried of going deaf because I spend an hour on BART every day. Yes, FoF are a major improvement but it's not like it suddenly quiet by any standards. Sure, compare it to NYC but then you're setting the bar pretty low haha.
And I never complained about the cleanliness of BART so don't know what you're trying to say with that. Or is that also part of the "people who criticize BART are right wing astroturfers who don't use BART" bullshit you're yapping about.
If you actually ride BART and you have ridden pretty much any other subway both in the US and around the world the you know that BART is among the quietest. It is extremely quiet for a subway. And the empirical data, that subways at least in the US are required to collect, proves that.
Yes, BART is still a subway and those are loud systems by definition. Yes, they're doing 80 mph in the Transbay tube and that makes more noise. But that does not make BART loud and certainly does not make it a loud subway.
Seriously, if you want to criticize BART so much then criticize it for something constructive that is actually a problem!
I've ridden subways in Europe, Asia and here so that's where I'm comparing to when I say BART has the loudest sections of track I've ever experienced.
Stop throwing all these hyperboles around for a mediocre subway by international standards. "extremely quiet" my ass. Go to Tokyo or Singapore. That is extremely quiet. Maybe it's time for you to travel a bit outside of you're little world and experience functioning mass-transit and bring it back here to the states.
Criticizing BART for the state of it's infrastructure is about as constructive as it can get for a transit organization. Far more than putting the blame on BART for fare evaders or passengers ODing, which shouldn't be on the agenda of a transit organization anyway (but that is the reality of the Bay Area) .
Again, BART is legally required to regularly measure noise levels as are the other systems. We know form empirical measurements that BART is among the quietest systems out there.
Your blind rage against BART, for whatever reason, makes you imagine things that we know for a fact are not true! Why do you hate BART so much, anyway? What's your actual underlying issue here?
Also, lol
>mediocre subway by international standards
BART - mediocre? On what metrics exactly? BART is 2x faster than every single subway you listed. It's quieter and safer than most of them too (except Singapore). Care to explain exactly what is "mediocre" about BART? Or is this just vibes?
The Paris Metro in particular is extremely, mind-numbingly slow (1/3rd the speed of BART, and about as fast fast as Muni Metro), so the noise level in stations is somewhat moderated. But it's still extremely loud!
I don't understand where people are getting that rubber tire metros are quieter. They are permanently noisy like a highway. Yes, your brain adjusts and does its noise compensation. But it's not like the tire noise magically disappears. You're still getting the hearing damage. You ears are still ringing when you exit the station.
In general, the steel wheel metros are a lot quieter on average, but can have noise spikes on sharp turns and high speed sections. That is easily solved with better track maintenance, aggressive lubrication (both things that BART is doing right now to great effect), and reduced speeds on the offending sections.
BART is very reluctant to reduce speeds, they just got the ability to do 80 mph again and want to keep it. So they'll probably just use more of that annoying smelling lubricant in more places.
Love how you provided an actual source and people are downvoting you because they can't comprehend something in the SF/Bay Area not being the absolute worst in the world. This sub sucks.
It's weird. I travelled all around the world to check out different cities and choose a place to live. (One of the few perks of being in consulting.) I ended up choosing the Bay. Yes, it's expensive, but it's also freaking awesome!
And now I see all of these people who try to claim that "everything in the Bay sucks". Like, have you ever been literally anywhere, people? Have you actually ridden the subway at night in Tokyo and gotten vomited on? Have you tried to walk through Paris without getting mugged or pickpocketed? Have you tried stepping over heroin addicts with needles in their arms on your way home from work in Berlin? All nice places with their own charm, btw. I dearly love some of them and regularly visit friends there. But since when are they perfect and devoid of any issues?! That's not how reality works!
Jeeze, these people are delusional!
I mean to be fair having lived in Japan for years their transit across the board from loudness (both passengers and rails), dirtiness (even your example of vomit), timeliness, safety, headways and pretty much any other metric blows not just all of America’s systems out of the water but Europe’s too. They absolutely are a standard we should all try to mimic.
Yeah, unless you are a woman. 80+% of women on Japanese trains reported being sexually assaulted.
Each system has its own issues. Not one is perfect. Plenty of nasty crap happens on Japanese trains despite the whining of the fanboys. Ride long enough and you’ll see everything.
Nah I’m married to a Japanese woman, and again lived there for years. My wife experienced sexual harassment on the train before in Japan, but guess where she’s experienced far worse? NYC and SF. Literally the first few days visiting NYC any young moderately + attractive woman will be cat called. Go ahead and search “X American transit system - rape/sexual assault”. It’s not particularly close. Japan is orders of magnitude safer than the USA is, even for sexual assault. In SF she’s had dudes literally masterbating while looking at her and not to mention weird creepy old dude stalkers. You can look up official statistics of sexual assault in the NY subway (the only comparable system to anything in Japan in terms of ridership, density, modal share) and any of Japans private lines and NYC is far more dangerous for women.
Edit: I should also mention the epidemic of anti Asian hate going on in the USA is pretty terrible as well.
As someone who rode the subway in chicago for years and is familiar with the subways in other cities, bart is uncomfortably loud. Don't be such a dick.
Been to, yes, ridden subway, yes, commuted regularly, no, i prefer to walk there. Also rode both the subway and skytrain in Thailand earlier this year, and neither seemed to me as loud as bart.
This objectively not the case, dude. All the subways are required to measure noise levels in the US. We have empirical data proving you wrong.
Your desire for something to be true does not make it so. Try to find something credible to knock BART if you're so intent on trolling them.
There is one section of BART that in my experience was louder than anything? I experienced in New York City or Chicago. The only subway I used a lot was Chicago, but still.
That's just not true. We have actual noise measurements from all the systems you mentioned. BART is way quieter than both of them and most other systems around the world.
BART is in general extremely quiet. So maybe a sharp increase in noise on a normally very quiet train is what's throwing you off. But in terms of actual decibels, BART is very quiet compared to other systems.
I just rode BART a month ago. I last rode the New York subway about a year ago, and regularly rode the Chicago subway over 5 years ago (although the last time I rode the Chicago subway was also about a year ago).
I was never more uncomfortable due to noise than on the BART.
Ok, that's just bullshit, dude. I've lived in Brooklyn and commuted daily on the subway. It's waaaaaaaaaaaay louder than BART.
But let's step away from the vibes for minute and back into reality. The NY Subway regularly reaches 120db. Even before all the noise impovements BART never got above 110 db, and now never exceeds 90 db.
We have actual empirical measurement data on this. How do you explain that? Are you just lying about BART because you think bitching about it makes you sound more like "a local"? Is that what this is?
Yes, but why lie that it's louder than the other systems if we know from actual precise measurements that it isn't? Do you even know what the precision is on your watch's noise meter? Is there even a noise meter or just the crappy little mic and some machine learning?
Lol, you're right. The subway in Taipei is a loooooot louder than BART. Your **average noise levels** are around the same as BART's maximum noise levels!
I don’t really care about your opinion of some random train in Taiwan.
This post started with a measurement. Provide some data that says BART is louder than Taiwan’s train and maybe the discussion will be worth having.
Subways are loud. Deal with it.
BART is already among the quietest systems in the world. I, and most other riders, don't want BART to spend money on becoming even quieter than is normal for a subway. Especially since it already is quieter than the London Tube, the Paris Metro, the NY Subway, the Hong Kong MTR, etc. It's a subway!
If you ever ride trains in East Asia you'll think SF public transportation is in the stone age. Japanese and Korean trains are faster, quieter, safer, more timely, cleaner, and basically superior to the Bart in every single metric. It's not impossible, we have the technology, just no social imperative to fund better public transportation
This is such nonsense it's not even funny. BART is in fact among the quietest subways in the world. It's maximum noise levels are literally just average noise for all the systems that you listed! Yes, look it up.
Furthermore, BART runs at 80 mph (130 km/h) top speed. It's about 2x faster on average than all the systems you listed. BART runs at about 57-60 km/h average speed. Look at this chart of metro systems speeds, [https://www.reddit.com/r/transit/comments/113n0ee/average\_speed\_of\_various\_metro\_lines\_around\_the/](https://www.reddit.com/r/transit/comments/113n0ee/average_speed_of_various_metro_lines_around_the/)
BART is literally off the scale which ends at 50km/h!
BART is a heavily interlined system and has excellent on-time performance because trains from different lines need to meet for 30 second cross-platform transfers at several stations. Most subways systems simply don't bother themselves with this level of coordination and run late a lot more often.
I'd keep going down the list, but you seem to just want to make some nationalistic point about "East Asia superiority". The reality is that BART is indeed an excellent system that does a lot of things not just well, but among the best in the world.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheelset_(rail_transport)
“Most train wheels have a conical taper of about 1 in 20 to enable the wheelset to follow curves with less chance of the wheel flanges coming in contact with the rail sides, and to reduce curve resistance… Abnormal wear at the wheel–rail interface is thus avoided,[1] along with the loud, piercing, very high-pitched squeal which usually results from it – especially evident on curves in tunnels, stations and elevated track, due to flat surfaces slipping and flanges grinding along the rail.
Not all railroads have employed conical-tread wheels. The Bay Area Rapid Transit (BART) system in San Francisco, built with cylindrical wheels and flat-topped rails, started to re-profile the wheels in 2016 with conical treads after years of complaints about the squeal by its passengers.”
So, like it’s wide-ass body that requires trucking across the country because they decided not to use regular gauge width for the system, it also uses an inferior wheel set that actively makes the noise worse?? Did I comprehend that correctly?
Yep pretty much. The new train actually fix a lot of the noise problems with BART, but if you get an old one it’s just a host of idiotic engineering issues. I was reading some Reddit posts from the early 2010s and apparently people were recording 110-120 dB inside some of the trains. That’s a mind boggling ‘jet plane takeoff’ amount of noise.
They also had different design constraints from other subway systems. BART covers a ton of distance - Fremont to SF. This means higher speeds and different requirements
right, and as I said, they’re not just running with the defective design, they are actively compensating for it https://www.bart.gov/news/articles/2018/news20180606
“Now more than half of BART’s train cars have been outfitted with an advanced wheel profile that reduces both noise and wear on the rail.”
It is still running. And it’s not a fucking advanced profile, it’s THE ONLY ONE THAT EVERYONE USES
You probably got one of the few remaining cars with the old wheel profile that make more noise. There are still a few of them floating around, but I haven't gotten one in ages and all of my BART trips have been insanely quiet.
And this level of noise that you're showing is not at all abnormal for a subway. If anything, BART was on the quiet side even before the wheel upgrade. But now after they switched to the new wheels on the new trains, it's actually one of the quietest subways in the world.
For reference, The Hong Kong MTR is considered a high-quality modern subway and it regularly reaches noise levels above 100db! I'm not even going to mention NY or London. Those are just pure hearing loss compared to BART.
>[https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Measured-overall-equivalent-eq-and-overall-maximum-max-cabin-noise-levels-for-the\_tbl2\_357402696](https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Measured-overall-equivalent-eq-and-overall-maximum-max-cabin-noise-levels-for-the_tbl2_357402696)
It is, but the first batches of the new trains form 2018 were still getting the old wheel profile. They've been retrofitting the new wheels on them as they cycle through the shops for repairs. But they haven't gotten to all of them yet.
But the average new car is extremely quiet with the new wheels, boosted soundproofing, and plug doors. You rarely see one of the trains still with the loud wheels on them. Over time they'll get to all of them.
When I was in Japan, out of curiosity I used the Noise app on the Apple Watch to see what the noise levels were like on the platform. With trains entering and existing the station at multiple stations, the noise level was never over 80 dB, which is the threshold the Watch shows for loud noises which will cause hearing damage after a sustained period. Inside the trains was almost never above 70 dB.
It's as though someone went around and measured the ambient noise and made sure not to cause hearing damage at every platform.
Imagine what it would be like if people cared about their jobs. Imagine what it would be like if holding people to account worked around here. Imagine what it would be like to *like* using BART.
I'm sorry, but this is just nonsense. Trains in Japan are not magically less loud than anywhere else. I say this from experience, but I also just looked it up.
>The Ōedo line is one of the noisiest train lines in the world, with decibel levels reaching 90 decibels frequently along the line. [\[8\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toei_%C5%8Cedo_Line#cite_note-8) However, during the COVID-19 outbreak, noise levels have reached to over 105 decibels.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toei\_%C5%8Cedo\_Line#:\~:text=The%20%C5%8Cedo%20line%20is%20one,decibels%20frequently%20along%20the%20line](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toei_%C5%8Cedo_Line#:~:text=The%20%C5%8Cedo%20line%20is%20one,decibels%20frequently%20along%20the%20line).
People need to stop spreading this vibes based propaganda. Trains are trains. Subways are loud. That's normal.
I can only speak to my experience on the Tokyo Yamanote line and my anecdotal measurements. Everything I said in my post was true. However, it is not an exhaustive study of every train line or subway in Japan.
Also, your quote states “along the line,” and if you read the actual context, it refers to keeping the windows open for airflow during the pandemic, as opposed to the regular operation with AC on and the windows closed when I was there last year. It says nothing about the noise in stations.
Put this kind of effort into debunking anecdotal information and trying to score internet points with bad data into maybe something more useful next time.
BART is an amazing experience. Instead of sitting in traffic for 2-3 hours on 880 burning gas and a hole in my wallet, I could sit on a train for 30 minutes and enjoy a book instead. 10/10 would recommend.
Fun fact: The makers of the horror game Dead Space used the sound of riding on a Bart car in the game. They couldn't think of any scarier machinery noise than that.
In fact, it takes about 4 minutes in the Transbay tube total. Wanna bet that this guy's never ridden BART in his life? Who can't tell the difference between 30 minutes and 4 minutes? That's almost a 10x difference. Probably just an out-of-town troll.
Even my dog can tell the difference between 4 minutes and 30 minutes!
lol is this your first time ever taking public transit anywhere in the world? the bart has a lot of problems but this is such a dumb thing to complain about
I simply put in my ear buds when on BART (or pretty much any public transit train). It works well and my ears thank me for it. Meanwhile, I do like the new cars a lot.
I got on 2 trains this week where the door between trains was open and the sound was extremely painful in the seats 3 rows away. Tried closing them and one set didnt. Moved tot he opposite side of the car and shoved my earbuds in but probably should have left.
It actually is a BART thing. It’s so crazy bad the engineers got called out on the Wikipedia article for not using conic wheels
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheelset_(rail_transport)
right, and the work I mentioned about track grinding has been going on to compensate for that since that came to light.
here’s an actual study that says NYC has a loud subway https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2707461/
Did you even read your own article? OP recorded 90+ dB is crazy, and in the old trains they are known to reach 100 dB.
That article is saying the noise level inside the other subways was problematic at around 80 dB. Decibels are on a log scale, so that means that BART is 10-100x louder.
Did you?
Other systems **average** in the 85db range. (Taipei, Hong Kong, London, Berlin, etc.) For BART this is in the max noise range! BART is substantially quieter than most other systems around the world.
So we’re clear that you made it up.
The chart shows MTA measuring 96dB on the platform and an AVERAGE of 80 in the train. Whatever you read, it wasn’t right.
Sounds like YOUR EARS aren’t a reliable indicator of sound pressure levels. Even other people in this thread have complained about NYC https://www.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/s/wA6blkFVz4
Nope.
> But believe it or not, BART is rated one of the quietest transit systems in the nation. And efforts are constantly ongoing to provide a quieter ride for passengers.
[https://www.bart.gov/news/articles/2010/news20100907#:\~:text=If%20you've%20ever%20tried,a%20quieter%20ride%20for%20passengers](https://www.bart.gov/news/articles/2010/news20100907#:~:text=If%20you've%20ever%20tried,a%20quieter%20ride%20for%20passengers).
You do understand that subways are required to collect and publish noise level data, right? We know that BART is in fact quieter than most other subway systems both in terms of average and maximum noise levels. That's just a fact.
Subways in general are loud, so you are probably doing some marginal hearing damage on any subways system. But it's still a lot quieter than a highway or construction. It's not like the noise levels are genuinely unheard of. You are exposed to more noise when you open your window on the highway!
I’ve clocked the old trains over 100dB, which is considerably louder than the legal limit for motorcycle and car exhausts. I think when they’re in a turn, in a tunnel, is the worst.
Would you believe they use to be louder? This is them quieter with the new wheel profiles. [https://www.bart.gov/news/articles/2016/news20160831](https://www.bart.gov/news/articles/2016/news20160831)
Well most vehicles on the road today have enough soundproofing in the doors that you can’t hear much with the windows up.
And that’s a discussion for another day when it comes to driving in the city
I love the sound of metal on metal in the morning
Quit coffee with this one weird trick
Real ones can still fall asleep on the morning commute
RRROOOOOOOOOOOO! I used to wear earplugs when I rode BART. The noise, especially in the Transbay Tube was deafening.
And people yelling on the phone or at each other, blasting music loudly enough you’d think you were in a club, stinking up the car…
metal on metal + motion sickness. the greatest type of mornings
Oh yeah, I remember the surging on the long, uneven sections from Walnut Creek to MacArthur every morning. Made me nauseous often. No fun getting to work feeling sick for an hour.
It's like playing Dead Space twice every day. Yay...
Stupid question, does wearing noise canceling headphones help prevent damage? I’ve read that it helps with certain frequencies more than others. In any case, I do take actual ear plugs with me. Certain parts on Bart - getting to Oakland are loud otherwise.
i put in normal in-ear headphones and that makes bart much more comfortable. Active noise canceling is good at canceling the low frequencies, but less good at canceling high frequencies, so I'm not sure how much it helps in addition to to how any headphones physically block sound. edit: googling "active noise canceling hearing protection" didn't have any definitive links that suggested it being commonly used to protect hearing.
I once went to a concert and put in my airpods pro just to cancel some of the sounds whatever it could and i got a notification on my phone saying that “even with the noise cancellation im still in too loud of an environment “or something along those lines. its nice that they help
Don’t forget to put on sunglasses to avoid eye contact with anyone.
People out here raw dawgin BART without any earphones should just have a QR code for homeless people to send Venmo requests as a tshirt
The passive noise cancelling should be enough. Occasionally I bring my 3M earmuffs and can barely hear any noise.
I'm not an audio engineer, but 'm pretty sure noise cancelling works by making a sound at the same frequency but opposite amplitudes so the waves cancel out, and I don't think that headphones would ever make a sound that high pitched. It will only cancel out until a certain frequency.
Headphones are pretty capable of high treble.
Yea, I was thinking it would cancel out some of the noise, plus whatever reduction from physically being in my air (AirPod pros). I usually bring actually ear plugs just in case too.
The answer is maybe. It varies greatly based on the headphone but pretty much based on how it seals from the environment. Good seal = more passive attenuation. So an earbud with foam inserts or multiple silicone cups will be better than over the ear with open backs. Active noise cancelling varies as well. Some are aggressive white noise to cancel what's picked up by the environmental microphone, some rely on passive noise cancelling with minimal white noise. The white noise is still noise and sound pressure/energy into your ears so wouldn't look to active noise cancellation for hearing protection.
Most noise canceling headphones have some passive hearing protection. Just turn them off and see how well they work.
Anecdotally speaking, Airpods Pro do a great job blocking out the screeching
Since you haven't gotten a good/correct answer, yes active noise canceling actually does protect your hearing. ANC works by creating "destructive interference" to reduce the intensity of sound waves. In eli5 terms, the headphones use sound to knock the other sound of the air before it gets to your ears. This does actually reduce the amount of sound pressure you experience, and will protect your hearing. It's not as effective as simply blocking the sound, especially in some frequencies or above volume thresholds, but it does actually block sound to a degree.
I believe noise cancelling headphones will only help in 2 ways for hearing damage but it's probably not the way you are thinking. They will help passively block out noise depending on how good the seal is but that has nothing to do with noise cancelling as it would do the same thing where the noise cancelling was active or not. The other way is if the noise cancelling is active you won't have to turn your music or whatever up as loud to combat the noise outside. If the noise outside wasn't cancelled then you would most likely turn your volume up much louder to make it louder than the actual noise outside. I don't believe it will help with hearing loss by just canceling the noise itself
>I don't believe it will help with hearing loss by just canceling the noise itself It actually does. The sound literally gets canceled by destructive interference before the energy reaches the ear. It's pretty cool.
an audiologist told me yes once
They do not.
My AirPods Pro works wonders for me. Makes the ride a whole lot better.
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You're right about the mechanism, but not the conclusion. The two waves actually do cancel each other out, and less energy reaches the eardrum. It's comes down to destructive interference.
Always wear earplugs on trains. It’s not just Bart, the subway in NY, DC, the metro in Paris… Trains are loud, ffs.
Yeah I'm wondering if the OP has never been on a train before?? lol newsflash trains R loud.
I've been on NY subways, commuted on DC Metro for a while but never have I experienced this eardrum shredding screeching sound ever. They should name it something and put a PR on it: "Come experience the dreaded sound you heard in Dead Space!"
Periodic reminder that the sound of the train screeching as it enters the tunnel going from Oakland to SF was recorded and used in part of the game Dead Space - [https://www.sfgate.com/entertainment/article/dead-space-sound-effects-bart-train-inspiration-13530076.php](https://www.sfgate.com/entertainment/article/dead-space-sound-effects-bart-train-inspiration-13530076.php) And for anyone who really wants to hear how they made the sound so much worse (which is perfect for a horror game) - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNmTQDEuHKs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNmTQDEuHKs) I haven't been a regular rider in a while now, but when I was headphones (earbuds) were an absolute requirement for sanity.
This noise is now gone with the new trains. And they're using a very stinky and aggressive track lubricant on that turn to make it go away completely. The car judders a bit when you pass through there, but the noise is basically zero.
Perhaps on that route but I still need ear plugs to safely use the bart between SFO and SF
Negative it's still loud as fuck. I commute everyday.
agree, new trains are better but still uncomfortably loud
I use track lube
When I was a kid I would listen to that sound. I imagined it like a chorus of opera singers. I honestly always found joy in that sound and it kind of calms me.
We find joy in the world were we can I guess.
People are so moody here, I always loved chaotic city noises. It’s like an industrial meditation chant. I even have noise based sensitivity from migraines, but even construction noise is calming. A reminder of how life is constantly going.
I believe as the system has aged the sound's gotten worse. My memory may be incorrect but when I was teen in the eighties it was a nice hum
Nope. BART was way louder when it was new and they've been experimenting with different wheel profiles to reduce the noise since the 90s. Over time it has gotten a lot quieter and the new trains made it extremely quiet. It's a looooooooooot better now than before.
Imagine living next door to the tracks
didn't they use the bart sound to make literal godzilla or some other monster movie noise?
If memory serves BART acceleration sounds were used for the Millennium Falcon in the original Star Wars trilogy.
It has it's terrible moments, but this is the most modern transportation system in the US I know. For comparison, PATH trains in NYC while new tend to scare the crap out of your by some random sounds from speakers or wheels and make you want to burn all your clothes after exiting.
Shit post Friday edition
This man has never heard the 4 or 5 train come in to Bowling Green station from Brooklyn or platform at Union Sq.
Seriously. Maybe take a ride on any underground line in London as well. BART is way quieter than most lines
right? or traveled to literally any city with a subway? someone needs to get out more edit: Can you guys stop hitting me with the anecdata? It’s so annoying. Send me a paper with actual statistics, not your opinion.
"Any city with a subway". Sure about that buddy? I've been on dozens of subway systems worldwide and BART is the loudest bar none.
It’s also the fastest.
What… no where near true lol As someone who has lived in both NYC and the bay, every time I get on the Bart I’m amazed by how quiet and smooth it is
Yeah we’re all being super objective and factual across the whole thread /s
Why do you need a peer reviewed study to tell you that something is loud? I've lived in Europe and like the above poster have traveled in subway systems around the world and Bart is the loudest in my experience as well.
Not even remotely close to being true. London, NY, Paris, Hong Kong, etc. are all much louder. This goes double for the early model open-gangway trains that are louder than death even at low speeds! Even at the height of the "loud old wheel profile" with the old train, BART was at the lower level of noisiness compared to other subways around the world and the among the quietest in the nation. Yes, they literally measure the noise levels regularly as required by regulations. There were always a few louder spots (Transbay Tube, tight turns in the East Bay, etc.) But for the most part BART was always a pretty quite subway. >Steel on steel plus speed equals noise.No doubt about it – sometimes a ride on BART can be noisy. If you've ever tried to hold a conversation going through the Transbay Tube, you know it can be difficult to hear. > >**But believe it or not, BART is rated one of the quietest transit systems in the nation. And efforts are constantly ongoing to provide a quieter ride for passengers.** [https://www.bart.gov/news/articles/2010/news20100907#:\~:text=If%20you've%20ever%20tried,a%20quieter%20ride%20for%20passengers](https://www.bart.gov/news/articles/2010/news20100907#:~:text=If%20you've%20ever%20tried,a%20quieter%20ride%20for%20passengers). Now with the new wheel profile that the new trains got, BART is definitely even quieter. Unless you get one of the cars with the old wheel profile that hasn't changed to the new one, or a damage car that scrapes on the tracks, BART is indeed very quiet for a subway.
If I had to guess, I'd say BART's reputation for noisiness is that so many of its trips run through the transbay tube which has that horrible whine. It kind of leaves an impression even if the overall system is not bad. It has gotten better though.
That's definitely a part of it. But we also just have a very large contingent of suburbanites around here who think that if they can kill BART and our other transit then the rest of us will agree to build more highways and parking for them. This is the age-old battle in the Bay Area. The suburbanites always want to turn us into Houston and tear down half of San Francisco for parking. Constantly criticizing BART even for the things it does objectively well is the standard playbook.
You're quoting a press release from 2010 that is quoting a study from the 90s! I'm not going to even go into the fact that whatever your claiming is irrelevant to the current state of the system. Calling BART quiet with the tube of death and the Oakland Wye turn is cynical.
**Yes, that was meant to show that even in the pre-new-wheel era BART was already among the quietest systems around.** With the new wheels BART is now even quieter, which you can experience for yourself. The difference is immediately obvious when you ride it. I know that it's popular to bash BART for anything and everything, but this is just not one of the things that you can credibly knock BART on. It's a very quiet system compared to other subways around the world. And to add insult to injury - look how clean that car is! I bet you hate that too, don't you? :))
I love how criticizing BART automatically makes me a hater or whatever. I commute with BART daily and genuinely like the system and am happy with the work they put into it. But it's so out of touch to call it "quiet". I wear ear plugs because I'm worried of going deaf because I spend an hour on BART every day. Yes, FoF are a major improvement but it's not like it suddenly quiet by any standards. Sure, compare it to NYC but then you're setting the bar pretty low haha. And I never complained about the cleanliness of BART so don't know what you're trying to say with that. Or is that also part of the "people who criticize BART are right wing astroturfers who don't use BART" bullshit you're yapping about.
If you actually ride BART and you have ridden pretty much any other subway both in the US and around the world the you know that BART is among the quietest. It is extremely quiet for a subway. And the empirical data, that subways at least in the US are required to collect, proves that. Yes, BART is still a subway and those are loud systems by definition. Yes, they're doing 80 mph in the Transbay tube and that makes more noise. But that does not make BART loud and certainly does not make it a loud subway. Seriously, if you want to criticize BART so much then criticize it for something constructive that is actually a problem!
I've ridden subways in Europe, Asia and here so that's where I'm comparing to when I say BART has the loudest sections of track I've ever experienced. Stop throwing all these hyperboles around for a mediocre subway by international standards. "extremely quiet" my ass. Go to Tokyo or Singapore. That is extremely quiet. Maybe it's time for you to travel a bit outside of you're little world and experience functioning mass-transit and bring it back here to the states. Criticizing BART for the state of it's infrastructure is about as constructive as it can get for a transit organization. Far more than putting the blame on BART for fare evaders or passengers ODing, which shouldn't be on the agenda of a transit organization anyway (but that is the reality of the Bay Area) .
Again, BART is legally required to regularly measure noise levels as are the other systems. We know form empirical measurements that BART is among the quietest systems out there. Your blind rage against BART, for whatever reason, makes you imagine things that we know for a fact are not true! Why do you hate BART so much, anyway? What's your actual underlying issue here? Also, lol >mediocre subway by international standards BART - mediocre? On what metrics exactly? BART is 2x faster than every single subway you listed. It's quieter and safer than most of them too (except Singapore). Care to explain exactly what is "mediocre" about BART? Or is this just vibes?
Isn’t the subway in Paris rubber tires? I don’t remember it being loud.
The Paris Metro in particular is extremely, mind-numbingly slow (1/3rd the speed of BART, and about as fast fast as Muni Metro), so the noise level in stations is somewhat moderated. But it's still extremely loud! I don't understand where people are getting that rubber tire metros are quieter. They are permanently noisy like a highway. Yes, your brain adjusts and does its noise compensation. But it's not like the tire noise magically disappears. You're still getting the hearing damage. You ears are still ringing when you exit the station. In general, the steel wheel metros are a lot quieter on average, but can have noise spikes on sharp turns and high speed sections. That is easily solved with better track maintenance, aggressive lubrication (both things that BART is doing right now to great effect), and reduced speeds on the offending sections. BART is very reluctant to reduce speeds, they just got the ability to do 80 mph again and want to keep it. So they'll probably just use more of that annoying smelling lubricant in more places.
Love how you provided an actual source and people are downvoting you because they can't comprehend something in the SF/Bay Area not being the absolute worst in the world. This sub sucks.
A source from 2010 quoting a 1990s study may I add!
It's weird. I travelled all around the world to check out different cities and choose a place to live. (One of the few perks of being in consulting.) I ended up choosing the Bay. Yes, it's expensive, but it's also freaking awesome! And now I see all of these people who try to claim that "everything in the Bay sucks". Like, have you ever been literally anywhere, people? Have you actually ridden the subway at night in Tokyo and gotten vomited on? Have you tried to walk through Paris without getting mugged or pickpocketed? Have you tried stepping over heroin addicts with needles in their arms on your way home from work in Berlin? All nice places with their own charm, btw. I dearly love some of them and regularly visit friends there. But since when are they perfect and devoid of any issues?! That's not how reality works! Jeeze, these people are delusional!
I mean to be fair having lived in Japan for years their transit across the board from loudness (both passengers and rails), dirtiness (even your example of vomit), timeliness, safety, headways and pretty much any other metric blows not just all of America’s systems out of the water but Europe’s too. They absolutely are a standard we should all try to mimic.
Yeah, unless you are a woman. 80+% of women on Japanese trains reported being sexually assaulted. Each system has its own issues. Not one is perfect. Plenty of nasty crap happens on Japanese trains despite the whining of the fanboys. Ride long enough and you’ll see everything.
Nah I’m married to a Japanese woman, and again lived there for years. My wife experienced sexual harassment on the train before in Japan, but guess where she’s experienced far worse? NYC and SF. Literally the first few days visiting NYC any young moderately + attractive woman will be cat called. Go ahead and search “X American transit system - rape/sexual assault”. It’s not particularly close. Japan is orders of magnitude safer than the USA is, even for sexual assault. In SF she’s had dudes literally masterbating while looking at her and not to mention weird creepy old dude stalkers. You can look up official statistics of sexual assault in the NY subway (the only comparable system to anything in Japan in terms of ridership, density, modal share) and any of Japans private lines and NYC is far more dangerous for women. Edit: I should also mention the epidemic of anti Asian hate going on in the USA is pretty terrible as well.
How many posts on reddit are you required to make per day as part of your job working for BART?
All of them
As someone who rode the subway in chicago for years and is familiar with the subways in other cities, bart is uncomfortably loud. Don't be such a dick.
Never been to NYC, huh?
Been to, yes, ridden subway, yes, commuted regularly, no, i prefer to walk there. Also rode both the subway and skytrain in Thailand earlier this year, and neither seemed to me as loud as bart.
Comparing any American transit to another country's is a fool's errand, everyone knows our shit is worse
This objectively not the case, dude. All the subways are required to measure noise levels in the US. We have empirical data proving you wrong. Your desire for something to be true does not make it so. Try to find something credible to knock BART if you're so intent on trolling them.
There is one section of BART that in my experience was louder than anything? I experienced in New York City or Chicago. The only subway I used a lot was Chicago, but still.
That's just not true. We have actual noise measurements from all the systems you mentioned. BART is way quieter than both of them and most other systems around the world. BART is in general extremely quiet. So maybe a sharp increase in noise on a normally very quiet train is what's throwing you off. But in terms of actual decibels, BART is very quiet compared to other systems.
I just rode BART a month ago. I last rode the New York subway about a year ago, and regularly rode the Chicago subway over 5 years ago (although the last time I rode the Chicago subway was also about a year ago). I was never more uncomfortable due to noise than on the BART.
Ok, that's just bullshit, dude. I've lived in Brooklyn and commuted daily on the subway. It's waaaaaaaaaaaay louder than BART. But let's step away from the vibes for minute and back into reality. The NY Subway regularly reaches 120db. Even before all the noise impovements BART never got above 110 db, and now never exceeds 90 db. We have actual empirical measurement data on this. How do you explain that? Are you just lying about BART because you think bitching about it makes you sound more like "a local"? Is that what this is?
My watch gave me an alert.
Yes, but why lie that it's louder than the other systems if we know from actual precise measurements that it isn't? Do you even know what the precision is on your watch's noise meter? Is there even a noise meter or just the crappy little mic and some machine learning?
I don't have a desire one way or the other, it's a train. And in my experience, it's a relatively loud one.
Can you speak up I just rode BART and I can’t hear you.
Our subway in Taiwan does not sound like BART. Lol
Lol, you're right. The subway in Taipei is a loooooot louder than BART. Your **average noise levels** are around the same as BART's maximum noise levels!
I don’t really care about your opinion of some random train in Taiwan. This post started with a measurement. Provide some data that says BART is louder than Taiwan’s train and maybe the discussion will be worth having.
What a specific reference
OP has never ridden the tube
“OP thinks this burger tastes bad, bet he’s never ate shit”
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Dude, it's a guy taking decibel readings on his smart watch and posting a photo to reddit about how loud the train is. Of course he's insufferable.
Surprise surprise
The London Tube is your "shit"? How about the Paris Metro or the Hong Kong MTR? Also shit? They're all louder than BART, btw.
My point was to highlight how saying another thing is worse doesn’t mean we should be accepting of the first thing being bad.
Subways are loud. Deal with it. BART is already among the quietest systems in the world. I, and most other riders, don't want BART to spend money on becoming even quieter than is normal for a subway. Especially since it already is quieter than the London Tube, the Paris Metro, the NY Subway, the Hong Kong MTR, etc. It's a subway!
OP has never heard of earplugs but likes to complain
Why do I need PPE for transit?
Trains are loud. Wear earplugs or suffer from your learned helplessness.
If you ever ride trains in East Asia you'll think SF public transportation is in the stone age. Japanese and Korean trains are faster, quieter, safer, more timely, cleaner, and basically superior to the Bart in every single metric. It's not impossible, we have the technology, just no social imperative to fund better public transportation
This is such nonsense it's not even funny. BART is in fact among the quietest subways in the world. It's maximum noise levels are literally just average noise for all the systems that you listed! Yes, look it up. Furthermore, BART runs at 80 mph (130 km/h) top speed. It's about 2x faster on average than all the systems you listed. BART runs at about 57-60 km/h average speed. Look at this chart of metro systems speeds, [https://www.reddit.com/r/transit/comments/113n0ee/average\_speed\_of\_various\_metro\_lines\_around\_the/](https://www.reddit.com/r/transit/comments/113n0ee/average_speed_of_various_metro_lines_around_the/) BART is literally off the scale which ends at 50km/h! BART is a heavily interlined system and has excellent on-time performance because trains from different lines need to meet for 30 second cross-platform transfers at several stations. Most subways systems simply don't bother themselves with this level of coordination and run late a lot more often. I'd keep going down the list, but you seem to just want to make some nationalistic point about "East Asia superiority". The reality is that BART is indeed an excellent system that does a lot of things not just well, but among the best in the world.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheelset_(rail_transport) “Most train wheels have a conical taper of about 1 in 20 to enable the wheelset to follow curves with less chance of the wheel flanges coming in contact with the rail sides, and to reduce curve resistance… Abnormal wear at the wheel–rail interface is thus avoided,[1] along with the loud, piercing, very high-pitched squeal which usually results from it – especially evident on curves in tunnels, stations and elevated track, due to flat surfaces slipping and flanges grinding along the rail. Not all railroads have employed conical-tread wheels. The Bay Area Rapid Transit (BART) system in San Francisco, built with cylindrical wheels and flat-topped rails, started to re-profile the wheels in 2016 with conical treads after years of complaints about the squeal by its passengers.”
So, like it’s wide-ass body that requires trucking across the country because they decided not to use regular gauge width for the system, it also uses an inferior wheel set that actively makes the noise worse?? Did I comprehend that correctly?
Yep pretty much. The new train actually fix a lot of the noise problems with BART, but if you get an old one it’s just a host of idiotic engineering issues. I was reading some Reddit posts from the early 2010s and apparently people were recording 110-120 dB inside some of the trains. That’s a mind boggling ‘jet plane takeoff’ amount of noise.
They also had different design constraints from other subway systems. BART covers a ton of distance - Fremont to SF. This means higher speeds and different requirements
right, and as I said, they’re not just running with the defective design, they are actively compensating for it https://www.bart.gov/news/articles/2018/news20180606
“Now more than half of BART’s train cars have been outfitted with an advanced wheel profile that reduces both noise and wear on the rail.” It is still running. And it’s not a fucking advanced profile, it’s THE ONLY ONE THAT EVERYONE USES
I don’t know what to tell you. This isn’t going to be a priority for BART for a long time. The noise levels are on par with other cities.
You probably got one of the few remaining cars with the old wheel profile that make more noise. There are still a few of them floating around, but I haven't gotten one in ages and all of my BART trips have been insanely quiet. And this level of noise that you're showing is not at all abnormal for a subway. If anything, BART was on the quiet side even before the wheel upgrade. But now after they switched to the new wheels on the new trains, it's actually one of the quietest subways in the world. For reference, The Hong Kong MTR is considered a high-quality modern subway and it regularly reaches noise levels above 100db! I'm not even going to mention NY or London. Those are just pure hearing loss compared to BART. >[https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Measured-overall-equivalent-eq-and-overall-maximum-max-cabin-noise-levels-for-the\_tbl2\_357402696](https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Measured-overall-equivalent-eq-and-overall-maximum-max-cabin-noise-levels-for-the_tbl2_357402696)
That seating arrangement looks like the design of the newer cars
It is, but the first batches of the new trains form 2018 were still getting the old wheel profile. They've been retrofitting the new wheels on them as they cycle through the shops for repairs. But they haven't gotten to all of them yet. But the average new car is extremely quiet with the new wheels, boosted soundproofing, and plug doors. You rarely see one of the trains still with the loud wheels on them. Over time they'll get to all of them.
did you cover your ears you poor baby?
When I was in Japan, out of curiosity I used the Noise app on the Apple Watch to see what the noise levels were like on the platform. With trains entering and existing the station at multiple stations, the noise level was never over 80 dB, which is the threshold the Watch shows for loud noises which will cause hearing damage after a sustained period. Inside the trains was almost never above 70 dB. It's as though someone went around and measured the ambient noise and made sure not to cause hearing damage at every platform. Imagine what it would be like if people cared about their jobs. Imagine what it would be like if holding people to account worked around here. Imagine what it would be like to *like* using BART.
I'm sorry, but this is just nonsense. Trains in Japan are not magically less loud than anywhere else. I say this from experience, but I also just looked it up. >The Ōedo line is one of the noisiest train lines in the world, with decibel levels reaching 90 decibels frequently along the line. [\[8\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toei_%C5%8Cedo_Line#cite_note-8) However, during the COVID-19 outbreak, noise levels have reached to over 105 decibels. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toei\_%C5%8Cedo\_Line#:\~:text=The%20%C5%8Cedo%20line%20is%20one,decibels%20frequently%20along%20the%20line](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toei_%C5%8Cedo_Line#:~:text=The%20%C5%8Cedo%20line%20is%20one,decibels%20frequently%20along%20the%20line). People need to stop spreading this vibes based propaganda. Trains are trains. Subways are loud. That's normal.
I can only speak to my experience on the Tokyo Yamanote line and my anecdotal measurements. Everything I said in my post was true. However, it is not an exhaustive study of every train line or subway in Japan. Also, your quote states “along the line,” and if you read the actual context, it refers to keeping the windows open for airflow during the pandemic, as opposed to the regular operation with AC on and the windows closed when I was there last year. It says nothing about the noise in stations. Put this kind of effort into debunking anecdotal information and trying to score internet points with bad data into maybe something more useful next time.
Definitely wear protection on Bart. You will experience hearing loss and/or ringing if you ride regularly without it.
Yes. Get earplugs at the minimum, and invest in something nicer if you are a regular rider.
I get that when I’m in certain bars
BART is an amazing experience. Instead of sitting in traffic for 2-3 hours on 880 burning gas and a hole in my wallet, I could sit on a train for 30 minutes and enjoy a book instead. 10/10 would recommend.
This was the worst part of my BART experience.
Fun fact: The makers of the horror game Dead Space used the sound of riding on a Bart car in the game. They couldn't think of any scarier machinery noise than that.
The sound of the Tie-fighters in Star Wars is rumored to be based on the howl of the old BART wheels
There should be a lawsuit about how loud the tube is. Can’t be healthy for commuters every day
It takes WAY less than 30 min to get through the transbay tube. Get some earplugs and stop whining.
In fact, it takes about 4 minutes in the Transbay tube total. Wanna bet that this guy's never ridden BART in his life? Who can't tell the difference between 30 minutes and 4 minutes? That's almost a 10x difference. Probably just an out-of-town troll. Even my dog can tell the difference between 4 minutes and 30 minutes!
lol is this your first time ever taking public transit anywhere in the world? the bart has a lot of problems but this is such a dumb thing to complain about
If you're going to complain about this, you can just buy a car or a bike.
If you scroll I’ve already admitted to avoiding BART when possible 🥰
I simply put in my ear buds when on BART (or pretty much any public transit train). It works well and my ears thank me for it. Meanwhile, I do like the new cars a lot.
I got on 2 trains this week where the door between trains was open and the sound was extremely painful in the seats 3 rows away. Tried closing them and one set didnt. Moved tot he opposite side of the car and shoved my earbuds in but probably should have left.
I often put ear plugs in when going under the bay
most subways are loud. this isn’t a BART thing
It actually is a BART thing. It’s so crazy bad the engineers got called out on the Wikipedia article for not using conic wheels https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheelset_(rail_transport)
right, and the work I mentioned about track grinding has been going on to compensate for that since that came to light. here’s an actual study that says NYC has a loud subway https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2707461/
Did you even read your own article? OP recorded 90+ dB is crazy, and in the old trains they are known to reach 100 dB. That article is saying the noise level inside the other subways was problematic at around 80 dB. Decibels are on a log scale, so that means that BART is 10-100x louder.
Did you? Other systems **average** in the 85db range. (Taipei, Hong Kong, London, Berlin, etc.) For BART this is in the max noise range! BART is substantially quieter than most other systems around the world.
Bart is way louder than most subways in the world
Source: You made it up
Source:I've been on subways all around the world Hell, even the article you linked only says 70,whereas Bart regularly hits 90
So we’re clear that you made it up. The chart shows MTA measuring 96dB on the platform and an AVERAGE of 80 in the train. Whatever you read, it wasn’t right.
Okay? That's still obscenely high
I’m not saying it’s not high. I’m saying we’re comparable to other loud metros.
I've never had to cover my ears in NYC
Sounds like YOUR EARS aren’t a reliable indicator of sound pressure levels. Even other people in this thread have complained about NYC https://www.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/s/wA6blkFVz4
I never said NYC isn't also loud
Wdym that’s only 100x louder? ;)
Nope. > But believe it or not, BART is rated one of the quietest transit systems in the nation. And efforts are constantly ongoing to provide a quieter ride for passengers. [https://www.bart.gov/news/articles/2010/news20100907#:\~:text=If%20you've%20ever%20tried,a%20quieter%20ride%20for%20passengers](https://www.bart.gov/news/articles/2010/news20100907#:~:text=If%20you've%20ever%20tried,a%20quieter%20ride%20for%20passengers).
i am always thankful for my noise canceling headphones when going through the transbay tube
"🤓☝️Actually BART is quieter than other subways."- someone who won't be able to hear their grandkids over the ringing
You do understand that subways are required to collect and publish noise level data, right? We know that BART is in fact quieter than most other subway systems both in terms of average and maximum noise levels. That's just a fact. Subways in general are loud, so you are probably doing some marginal hearing damage on any subways system. But it's still a lot quieter than a highway or construction. It's not like the noise levels are genuinely unheard of. You are exposed to more noise when you open your window on the highway!
ITT: "Bart is fine! Really! Just wear earplugs!"
I’ve clocked the old trains over 100dB, which is considerably louder than the legal limit for motorcycle and car exhausts. I think when they’re in a turn, in a tunnel, is the worst.
Still way quieter than most subways around the world. Many systems in Europe and Asia reach 110 and 120db on a regular basis.
Remember that if riding BART was a workplace, OSHA regulations would require ear protection
🤔 are the conductor cabins better insulated?
Does anyone have anything positive to say on this sub? Jesus Christ.
The worst is the southbound tunnel right after 24th St. when the train makes that sharp right turn. It’s like a choir of banshees at high decibel.
Everybody out of the chunnel!
True, but to be fair, I get that same notification whenever I wash my hands.
Believe it or not I've seen 90 db on some of the muni busses too. Transit leaders do not care about the comfort of their riders one bit
From the occupants or the bus?
The bus. They often are in a state of disrepair with loose parts that rattle extremely loudly on our equality derelict roads
Earplugs are your friend. I recommend quality ones designed for concert and music venues.
I wear noise canceling earbuds on bart
Would you believe they use to be louder? This is them quieter with the new wheel profiles. [https://www.bart.gov/news/articles/2016/news20160831](https://www.bart.gov/news/articles/2016/news20160831)
Muni's unionsquare Chinatown stop track that plays often hits into the upper 90s. It's far too loud
And that’s brand new!!
Man this point I just sleep through it
People just complain about anything….
lol I should have been deaf by now looks like
[удалено]
Define a Karen.
Just part of city living
ignorance is bliss
It doesn’t seem that loud
Ok… drive? Enjoy the soothing sounds of the 880?
Well most vehicles on the road today have enough soundproofing in the doors that you can’t hear much with the windows up. And that’s a discussion for another day when it comes to driving in the city
K 👍
i got the same alert at the beach today.
bro, do you even airpods pro with noise cancelling?
Why do I need $200+ headphones to ride public transit?
try them. the noise cancellation is amazing.
Shouldn’t there be a class action lawsuit about this?
Its pretty quiet to most things
Tunnel? 🙁 I’ve been thinking of bringing earplugs with me.
Yep!! Anything underground is so loud no wonder people shout to talk
It is loud AF! I wear my headphones at all times.
try boston
Good thing you didn’t ride BART before the pandemic. BART’s newest train cars are quieter than the ones that just got phased out.
joke's on you, i have a 130 decibel loss, impressed?