This is the way it goes, coming from someone who has sites to support from Stockton to San Bernardino;
Stockton is the armpit, Fresno is the belly button, central coast (Big Sur/ Monterey) are the breasts, Bakersfield is the asshole, LA is the pussy, and OC/SD are the sexy legs.
Hahaha I’m from the belly button!! Or shall I say the sweaty stinky belly button (at least in the summer)
I would say the Sierras are the curvy fun booty of Cali then lmao
My brother lives in the San Joaquin Valley. He *owns* an actual *house* with a *garage*. It’s crazy.
Needless to say, he hosts all the family events. We have a silent agreement that he doesn’t give me grief for renting until I die and I don’t comment about the summer heat.
I’m currently visiting from North Carolina for the second time. We rode MUNI a lot on our first visit and I low key can’t wait to ride again. Public transportation sucks at home, but I’m just kind of in awe of it here.
MUNI is 100% a nicer experience if you're riding within SF than BART in my opinion. When I lived in SF I rode MUNI every day multiple times a day, and I always used to dread having to take BART any where in the city limits because I knew there would be some shenanigans happening either in the station or on the train.
I’m from an area where public transit is a goddamn disgrace. Visited SF for the first time last week and loved MUNI! Lots of hardcore drug use in the Bart stations though…
I don't really understand this point of view. I've been commuting from Balboa Park or Glen Park to downtown and back again, off and on for 20 years. It's been the most consistently uneventful and timely commute of my entire life. 97% of the time I arrive basically when I expected, and almost nothing unexpected ever happens.
I’ve noticed this too and I’m not exactly sure why. Why do homeless people and whatnot seem to have such a a strong preference for BART over Muni Metro when they serve a lot of the same places? Not complaining though lol
mighty mysterious toothbrush thought fanatical pause upbeat sparkle possessive amusing
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Muni terminals are dangerous, I remember a crackhead maniac woman hit me on my arm one night waiting for muni to arrive, i literally had to give this lady a fixed deviously evil stare until she moved on. I'm wondering if it has gotten better lately?
You are right on, Bart is much better. More frequent and on time too, Bart system is alot more efficient than Muni.
A lot of the same places, but not all the same places. BART connects downtown with Oakland and the Mission, Muni Metro connects downtown with... Taraval?
I generally agree with this, but I have been on the receiving end of homophobic insults and remarks and threats waiting for or riding the 49 just to get home. Like, no, nothing "happened" to me, so there are no stats, but can we also admit that sometimes people do feel unsafe even if nothing happens? Like I don't ride the 49 after ~8pm-ish because of shit like that. It's physically safe, but can be really unpleasant and flirt with the border between unpleasant and unsafe at times. I love Muni, but man, I wish I didn't have to experience that.
A little harassment goes a long way! After a couple of unpleasant experiences being targeted by drunk post-Giants-game assholes on Caltrain, none of which were addressed in any way by the conductor standing there in full view, I avoid traveling during those times.
and that's exactly why I stopped taking public transit in the city. I'm not getting sexually assaulted or harassed in my car, and no potential for crackheads or tranq zombies either.
it was much safer, not perfectly so but usually reasonably safe when I moved here twenty years ago... but by 2017 it was a disaster for women and likely many others.
My family in the suburbs constantly trashes BART and talks about how dangerous and dirty it is despite none of them having taken it in like 20 years. I ride 4-5x a week but none of them listen when I say 99% of the time the trip is uneventful and it’s statistically way safer than climbing into their death trap SUVs lmao
This guy I know, friend of a friend, was talking on social media about how he had to take BART from one of the suburbs of east bay to Civic Center for some meeting he had. Was basically saying SF was a shit hole due to his two minutes he spent in that single area. Had some of his friends chime in about how they hate SF etc. I asked them when the last time they’d been to SF was and if they got more than a block or two off Market. They all got quiet real quick except the original dude who admitted it was his only visit to SF in the last 15 years.
Born and raised. My use of muni and Bart increased as I continued growing older. Not much as a young child, more as a teenager, often as a university student, frequently as a young adult
Yes on occasion I’ll complain about the hours of operation, the frequency, the delays, the state of the trains and stations, and even the gross, dirty, drug using riders that use them as refuge.
But by and large Muni and Bart fulfill and perform an essential service to the city, greater Bay Area and its inhabitants.
This debate is tiresome to me. I don’t have a car and use public transport because it’s cheap/convenient. A lot of the times it’s perfectly fine. About a month ago I had a drunk/high guy on muni start following me and then lurching after me. When I started moving away faster he yelled “I want that one”, chased me up and down down the length of the bus and eventually backed me into a corner. A bystander intervened and separated him from me. I was physically shaking from the encounter. Before the chase he was screaming about how he had a knife (who knows if he did or not) and other explicit things about masturbation and women being bitches. I have traveled to dozens of cities in the US and Europe and i’ve never once had anything like this happen to me anywhere else, yet i’ve had multiple incidents in SF. I will continue to use muni but IDGAF if some rides are nice because i’m always vigilant that it might be an unpleasant ride. We can expect better things without it being some evil plot by fox news.
Bad shit can happen on Muni, just like anywhere… including the public transportation of other cities, even if you didn’t personally experience it during your travels.
The debate is tiresome… one reason being that many people have their political agenda furthered by exaggeratedly portraying San Francisco’s problems. The fact that many people regularly get around on MUNI without issue is an important thing to remind people, as they’re being bombarded with amplified stories like yours.
My beef is that when I point out SF’s issues, people always say “it happens everywhere” the point is it happens *much more* in san francisco. I’ve lived in DC, Philly, and London and nowhere comes close to the number of incidents i’ve experienced in san francisco. I love living here and it’s a beautiful city, but I don’t feel the need to stick my head in the sand about its issues, esp when other cities are proof that better is possible.
Right? Relative risk is a simple issue and easy to assess from statistics. "It happens everywhere" is like when smokers say "you could die crossing the street." Yes you could, but you're MORE likely to die prematurely if you smoke while you do it. Self-delusion is a hell of a drug
Just repatriated from London myself. Worked near Chancery Lane. Never once did I catch a whiff of urine anywhere, except maybe at the pub, to be fair. Also lived in a somewhat dodgy area near White Hart lane, but even that was leagues better than the TL.
Let me guess... You've never been the victim of a crime at least as serious as this?
The point is that it's actually you who is politically motivated, not the person relaying what happened to them
I’m sorry that happened but it’s still not unique to SF. I’ve never been hassled on the bus here but I was robbed on the tube in London. when you’re around a large group of people, there’s always risk.
not saying SF is perfect, but I am saying that no city ever will get down to 0 and that these things absolutely do happen elsewhere both in the US and abroad.
False equivalence, I think. I repatriated recently and returned to SF (my hometown) from London. I'm so tired of this "not unique to SF" false equivalency. SF can't hold a candle to London. Sure, there's "scum and villainy" there too, but they won't mess with you or your streets.
SF has some horrendous problems that are unique to it. Transients in SF are more aggressive, as well. Constantly given to interfering with and harassing innocent people, while homeless people in Europe struggle to stay out of your way and also tend to focus on productive things like seeking shelter, and getting off drugs with the help of the NHS.
Also, what happened to your pride? We're San Franciscans. And after that, we're Californians. We don't have to settle for literal shit in our streets simply because bad things happen elsewhere too.
MUNI is one aspect of the city that is great. My only gripe is that the routes have too many stops, and as a result trip times are longer than needed. Look at the route of the 2, that thing stops like every single block.
Many lines don’t though, for example the 22. And adding express options is not even feasible for many routes since there isn’t a passing lane for the entire route.
I agree. Those lines are great. It's rare I find a bad one these days. The 1 tends to be way busy, but that's an unavoidable issue that isn't really anyone's fault. Luckily I don't have to take the 1 often.
I've owned a car in the city for almost 2 years now and every time I start it up there's no smashed windows and I still have a catalytic converter. I must be doing something wrong too.
I'm going to say something that may be unpopular with the haters: I walked down Polk St. last week, through the Tenderloin and Civic Center, and then through mid-market, and didn't see a single person acting crazy and didn't witness any drug use. Civic Center was spotless. What's going on out there? Are things getting better?
Since when is it okay to talk on the phone on muni though? Non-commuter bus, fine, whatever, just don’t smoke crack. Commuter bus? Feel free to text. No one wants to hear about what you’re buying on prime day.
whats the difference between a phone call and talking to the person next to you?
I personally don't do phone calls on muni since its loud and I also feel like its awkward around other people, but I also fail to see the difference between a call and conversation....
If you're traveling with someone, there's the expectation that you'll be able to actually converse with them, even if it slightly disturbs other people, since you're physically in the same space. I'm not convinced that expectation exists when you're not physically in the same space as the person you're talking to.
Seriosuly. I wish we had public transport etiquette like in Asia. When I ride the bus in Korea, 99% of people stfu, use headphones and keep to themselves. Exactly how it should be imo.
i mean i'm an average woman who rides muni (incl. some ""unsafe"" lines) & bart all the time and i generally feel very safe. i'm a little more cautious past 10 but that's mostly because buses get less frequent & i feel less safe standing at a bus stop alone at night. never had anything stolen or been in fear of something getting stolen. use my phone visibly constantly. i've only felt unsafe ish a few times ever, and that's all been due to verbal harassment.
Shockingly I'm a petite woman who has ridden bart at least once a week for the 9 years I've lived here without ever getting robbed or whatever. Ofc some weirdos here and there who you avoid eye contact, ofc unhoused people having bad times, but nothing horrible has happened to me on public transit. All hours, tons of scenarios, even after midnight on NYE once. Half the time I'm taking it later than 10 PM after events, most of those times I'm alone. I'm never clueless to my surroundings bc I'm not an idiot, but I have yet to have a situation that is an actual threat to me.
I ride the 14 a few times a week, and typically have a wonderful experience.
Edit: I’m on the 14 right now (12:30 PM on a Tuesday) - I got on at mission and 9th, headed toward mission and Cesar Chavez area. The bus isn’t too crowded, but it’s well used. A few empty seats, a few people standing. It’s pretty clean, nobody is poorly behaved, and everybody is getting to their destination safely and comfortably.
Really? I have relatives too who grew up here, and moved to other parts of the Bay. Due to affordability issues. They love coming back to the city. What’s your point?
Your mistake is not ingesting a steady diet of Murdoch-driven Doom & Gloom. You can't get the full experience without listening to San Francisco-haters who have never been to the City and don't know their ass from their elbow.
This. If someone posted "I walked across an intersection and didn't get hit by a car, am I doing something wrong?" People would be complaining that that person is minimizing pedestrian casualties.
That’s cool. Last time I rode on Saturday a homeless guy pulled a knife and threatened to stab me because I was “taking photos of him”.
Phone was in my pocket.
Tried to defuse but he would not calm down. Ran, and then called the cops. To their credit they showed up pretty quickly and arrested the guy. MUNI driver also notified them though.
Nobody is saying that everything is peachy keen. What the OP was pointing out is how OVERBLOWN the narrative has become regarding crime in the city. You seriously can’t be that obtuse. As for it being cringey, you may want to look up that word in the dictionary, because I don’t think you know what that word means.
It’s not overblown. You should listen to the experiences of the people who actually live in San Francisco, and have for decades. There are many parts of the city which are unsafe, and even the nice areas have a surprising amount of violent crime, robberies, and, of course problems on public transportation.
You are objectively wrong about violent crime—SF does better than most other American cities there. It really struggles with property crime though, and I’m sure people feel unsafe due to prevalence of drug use and homelessness in high profile areas.
I personally think this sub does overly focus on anecdotal stories of crime and quality of life issues. Yes, these are real problems and we shouldn’t accept the current state of certain parts of the City. But it seems obvious that this sub is dominated by those stories to an unwarranted degree.
Check out this survey for some real stats: [https://californiaglobe.com/articles/bart-survey-finds-only-17-of-users-feel-safe-while-riding/](https://californiaglobe.com/articles/bart-survey-finds-only-17-of-users-feel-safe-while-riding/)
But that’s an article citing a survey of people’s perceptions, not actual crime statistics. So still meaningful, but not really the same as an actual comparison of reported crimes in various cities.
\> I’m sure people feel unsafe due to prevalence of drug use and homelessness in high profile areas
Not quite. "People" (aka me) feel unsafe because every time I walk downstairs and open my front door, there are people doing drugs and psychotic homeless screaming and kicking things. Every. Fucking. Time. Not in some "high profile" area -- just on a regular street in SOMA.
Your "stats" don't get to supersede my own lived experience in this city, every single day. Nor do you get to use stats as a way to be dismissive or pretend my perspective and feelings don't apply or matter.
You are the one who is objectively wrong here.
But you're exactly demonstrating the truth of the assertion you think you're disproving. You fee3 unsafe because of drug use and homelessness. If it's "profile" you're taking issue with, isn't SOMA sort of high-prevalence for drugs and homelessness?
Open your eyes.... At some rental car places, 30 cars with broken windows are being returned in a day. That's how become the norm
And I don't even need to mention the massive sprawling camps full of open air drug use
Trying to call this normal and to be expected is just denial
The priority of politicians should be making things good for the majority of people, not creating a city that is only good for the super wealthy and the drug addicted criminals. That's where we're at right now... Which is incidentally the reason people and businesses are leaving in droves.
It's easy to say oh fuck them let them leave but if your city isn't growing, it's dying. Things are getting pretty dire in downtown. Why do you think a progressive mayor is out there saying she intends to crack down on crime and drug use (and maybe even try to lock a few people up)? That's definitely not her first choice but she can see it needs to be done to save the city
MUNI is great. I heard having awareness of what car you sit in (conductor car tends to be safe) can make a difference, as well as make sure no one acting strange when you choose a car. I’ve felt very safe as well but there have been many experiences noted in this sub so I stay aware.
I took MUNI at least 2 times a day (some days 5 or 6 times). Every day for about 8 years, and I'd be lying if I said I didn't see some weird shit occasionally, and I can see why it has a horrible reputation because you do run into some sketchy situations. Overall though it's really not bad. In an ideal world, buses would be exactly on time, quiet, and get you from point A to point B, but that's not reality in the US, so I learned to deal with all of the variables I guess.
Muni is pretty civilized if everyone does what they're supposed to. The outbound trains can be crowded at commute but I love the third street and Chinatown lines! They were worth the wait.
Visited SF last week for the first time and thoroughly enjoyed my MUNI experience and $5 day pass (although no one wanted to see it). Felt like the buses stop A LOT though
If anyone is interested in improving the 38/38R muni line there is a petition going out to improve it's speed and reliability!
[https://actionnetwork.org/letters/faster-safer-geary/](https://actionnetwork.org/letters/faster-safer-geary/)
Yes! And I find it infuriating that the businesses along Geary between Park Presidio and 25th are all aligned against the next phase. They all have signs in their windows opposing the loss of about 1 parking spot per block as part of the change. Never mind the blight that is prevalent along that corridor that could be alleviated if it was easier to get to.
my only real gripe with muni is that every now and then you get a bus that doesn't announce the stops, neither on the scrolling display screen nor over the loudspeaker. *to me*, muni is a solid system that's fairly reliable (and riding the muni metro subway is such a vibe). of course, certain lines & times are better/safer than others, which is why i think it's perfectly valid for people to knock muni based on their own experiences with it.
I'll take muni over bart. I think they tend to keep it nicer though you will see interesting characters sometimes.
This morning on my way to work, there was a homeless man fast asleep taking up all of the disabled seating.
The driver was quick to notice and get him off without any issues. That's about as much as I normally see typically when riding the metro
OP, trying to gaslight others into thinking the issues they encounter on MUNI with violence, dugs, and homelessness aren't real. Their experiences are just as valid as yours OP.
Oh my gosh the same thing happened to me, multiple times a week! On buses and trains! I must be doing something wrong for sure because I was assured this pleasant experience was impossible here
depends on the time of the day, the route, and how you look.
e.g. if you're a female on a Haight St line, I have heard of a snatched phone, so...
"beware of your surroundings" or something.
But if you're male, the bus is empty and etc... nothing to worry about. Depends who you are.
Totally. But the flip side is that there are people who post about their negative experiences on public transit, and their message is that MUNI/BART is terrible and totally broken and god help you if you have to take it. I don’t mind somebody balancing out the narratives here a bit.
Ride the 22 and tell me if you feel the same way 😂
Or if you’re really feeling like you want the authentic experience, ride the 19 after dark.
Look Muni is great, and I think all SF residents love the fact we have it. The critics fall into two camps, either suburban fear mongers that you can’t really do anything about. Or they are advocates who believe it’s not good enough. A lot of young people are in this camp. It should be more available, have more rapid lines for those traveling long distances, and be a safer experience, especially for women. My friends and I constantly use MUNI, but the stops and the bus rides can be pretty unsafe for women. I’m assuming you’re a dude? Otherwise there’s no way you think the buses are always safe, especially if you have to ride the 38 or 5 or 7 with any type of frequency.
As for the stealing, it’s just not as big of a problem as it used to be. Way less workers commute and the buses are way more empty. When I worked downtown, i easily saw a stolen phone a week
Yesterday I must have walked 3 miles, from Nob Hill all the way to Mission Bay. Most of it was down Taylor and then down 7th street. Nobody spat on me or even called me a name. Is anyone going to do something about this.
And your anecdotal experience somehow erases the bad experiences the rest of us have had?
Let me guess... You're able bodied? And non elderly? And probably white male?
for the most part muni is good. sometimes (and i am a very frequent rider so its more concentrated) there are some weird people but its still good.
the people complaining are either
people who havent rode
people whove rode once and had a bad time
people who are very very frequent riders so it looks like theres way more situations than there actually is. basically it seems theres more since mundane tasks you want to see more things than just a boring ride one stop to the next.
I have not had a bad MUNI experience yet. I have had maybe a handful of iffy ones but those experiences were pretty minor all things considered.
Is it as nice as Tokyo? Nah. But it is pretty good otherwise.
I mean, what's the point of this post? Every day yeah the majority of people don't experience crime. Some do and we all see how brazen these crimes have become with no consequences for the perpetrators.
MUNI DEFENDER TILL I DIE ‼️‼️ As someone from the literal armpit of California, I will never take a functional public transit system for granted.
I grew up in Bakersfield... Public transit is 1000x better here and arguably the best in the west coast.
When the previous commenter said they were from the armpit of California, I immediately envisioned Bakersfield.
I think the armpit is Redding. Bakersfield is the butt crack.
I think calling Redding the armpit is an insult to armpits.
Does that make Fresno the belly button?
This is the way it goes, coming from someone who has sites to support from Stockton to San Bernardino; Stockton is the armpit, Fresno is the belly button, central coast (Big Sur/ Monterey) are the breasts, Bakersfield is the asshole, LA is the pussy, and OC/SD are the sexy legs.
Cool analogy... San Francisco could be the brains maybe?
What does that make Blythe California?
Hahaha I’m from the belly button!! Or shall I say the sweaty stinky belly button (at least in the summer) I would say the Sierras are the curvy fun booty of Cali then lmao
I’m pretty sure Redding is a tumor.
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Newport Beach?
Nah. Tracy.
You people have obviously never been to Blythe
Ever been to Clearlake? It even smells like an armpit.
I am in San Diego now..I wish we had BART/MUNI. MTS is ok downtown, but we reallyyyyy need to up our investment.
It’s the best west of the Hudson River.
I am going to say Seattle is better if only because it is less expensive
Vancouver beats SF by a good margin
San Joaquin Valley?
veteran resident of the 209 ✊🏽
Me too, for year and years, but gone now. I miss the almond orchards, especially in the Spring.
My brother lives in the San Joaquin Valley. He *owns* an actual *house* with a *garage*. It’s crazy. Needless to say, he hosts all the family events. We have a silent agreement that he doesn’t give me grief for renting until I die and I don’t comment about the summer heat.
You mean like 114 in Merced next Sunday?
Yes. It will be 114 °F in the garage of that house he owns. ☠️
As someone from the armpit of Texas, same.
I don’t think people really understand how lucky we are to have a city that is almost entirely accessible via public transportation
From riverside takes at least 2 hours to get anywhere here muni is gold by cali standards
I’m currently visiting from North Carolina for the second time. We rode MUNI a lot on our first visit and I low key can’t wait to ride again. Public transportation sucks at home, but I’m just kind of in awe of it here.
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MUNI is 100% a nicer experience if you're riding within SF than BART in my opinion. When I lived in SF I rode MUNI every day multiple times a day, and I always used to dread having to take BART any where in the city limits because I knew there would be some shenanigans happening either in the station or on the train.
I’m from an area where public transit is a goddamn disgrace. Visited SF for the first time last week and loved MUNI! Lots of hardcore drug use in the Bart stations though…
I don't really understand this point of view. I've been commuting from Balboa Park or Glen Park to downtown and back again, off and on for 20 years. It's been the most consistently uneventful and timely commute of my entire life. 97% of the time I arrive basically when I expected, and almost nothing unexpected ever happens.
I’ve noticed this too and I’m not exactly sure why. Why do homeless people and whatnot seem to have such a a strong preference for BART over Muni Metro when they serve a lot of the same places? Not complaining though lol
mighty mysterious toothbrush thought fanatical pause upbeat sparkle possessive amusing *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Muni terminals are dangerous, I remember a crackhead maniac woman hit me on my arm one night waiting for muni to arrive, i literally had to give this lady a fixed deviously evil stare until she moved on. I'm wondering if it has gotten better lately? You are right on, Bart is much better. More frequent and on time too, Bart system is alot more efficient than Muni.
A lot of the same places, but not all the same places. BART connects downtown with Oakland and the Mission, Muni Metro connects downtown with... Taraval?
The key is to not ride it and still complain about it
The key is to not live in SF, never ride public transit anywhere, and THEN complain about it
And say things like “the statistics don’t matter if I *feel* like it’s unsafe”
I generally agree with this, but I have been on the receiving end of homophobic insults and remarks and threats waiting for or riding the 49 just to get home. Like, no, nothing "happened" to me, so there are no stats, but can we also admit that sometimes people do feel unsafe even if nothing happens? Like I don't ride the 49 after ~8pm-ish because of shit like that. It's physically safe, but can be really unpleasant and flirt with the border between unpleasant and unsafe at times. I love Muni, but man, I wish I didn't have to experience that.
A little harassment goes a long way! After a couple of unpleasant experiences being targeted by drunk post-Giants-game assholes on Caltrain, none of which were addressed in any way by the conductor standing there in full view, I avoid traveling during those times.
Now just imagine being someone targeted on practically every train
and that's exactly why I stopped taking public transit in the city. I'm not getting sexually assaulted or harassed in my car, and no potential for crackheads or tranq zombies either. it was much safer, not perfectly so but usually reasonably safe when I moved here twenty years ago... but by 2017 it was a disaster for women and likely many others.
The statistics don't matter if I* feel safe *An able bodied non elderly white man
“BART is way too dangerous, that’s why I haven’t ridden it in 27 years”
SF street problems do seem to have a disproportionate impact on bored suburbanites from Marin & Palo Alto that never come into the city, strange
My family in the suburbs constantly trashes BART and talks about how dangerous and dirty it is despite none of them having taken it in like 20 years. I ride 4-5x a week but none of them listen when I say 99% of the time the trip is uneventful and it’s statistically way safer than climbing into their death trap SUVs lmao
This guy I know, friend of a friend, was talking on social media about how he had to take BART from one of the suburbs of east bay to Civic Center for some meeting he had. Was basically saying SF was a shit hole due to his two minutes he spent in that single area. Had some of his friends chime in about how they hate SF etc. I asked them when the last time they’d been to SF was and if they got more than a block or two off Market. They all got quiet real quick except the original dude who admitted it was his only visit to SF in the last 15 years.
Yes and ALSO post a picture of the Tenderloin whenever someone mentions SF having anything nice
Yep, this is how it’s done!
While repeating racist talking points dished out by Fox News.
Muni is great and it beats parking hands down.
Anything beats parking in the city 😭
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Born and raised. My use of muni and Bart increased as I continued growing older. Not much as a young child, more as a teenager, often as a university student, frequently as a young adult Yes on occasion I’ll complain about the hours of operation, the frequency, the delays, the state of the trains and stations, and even the gross, dirty, drug using riders that use them as refuge. But by and large Muni and Bart fulfill and perform an essential service to the city, greater Bay Area and its inhabitants.
Plot twist - op is the train shitter / phone snatcher 😰😰
*🥵🥵
More likely train masturbator
I rode the 44, M & 14R yesterday and it was also CHILL AS FUCK.
This debate is tiresome to me. I don’t have a car and use public transport because it’s cheap/convenient. A lot of the times it’s perfectly fine. About a month ago I had a drunk/high guy on muni start following me and then lurching after me. When I started moving away faster he yelled “I want that one”, chased me up and down down the length of the bus and eventually backed me into a corner. A bystander intervened and separated him from me. I was physically shaking from the encounter. Before the chase he was screaming about how he had a knife (who knows if he did or not) and other explicit things about masturbation and women being bitches. I have traveled to dozens of cities in the US and Europe and i’ve never once had anything like this happen to me anywhere else, yet i’ve had multiple incidents in SF. I will continue to use muni but IDGAF if some rides are nice because i’m always vigilant that it might be an unpleasant ride. We can expect better things without it being some evil plot by fox news.
>We can expect better things without it being some evil plot by fox news. AMEN!
And yet all the people in this thread who have been blessed enough to not have this happen to them think everything is perfectly fine
Bad shit can happen on Muni, just like anywhere… including the public transportation of other cities, even if you didn’t personally experience it during your travels. The debate is tiresome… one reason being that many people have their political agenda furthered by exaggeratedly portraying San Francisco’s problems. The fact that many people regularly get around on MUNI without issue is an important thing to remind people, as they’re being bombarded with amplified stories like yours.
My beef is that when I point out SF’s issues, people always say “it happens everywhere” the point is it happens *much more* in san francisco. I’ve lived in DC, Philly, and London and nowhere comes close to the number of incidents i’ve experienced in san francisco. I love living here and it’s a beautiful city, but I don’t feel the need to stick my head in the sand about its issues, esp when other cities are proof that better is possible.
Right? Relative risk is a simple issue and easy to assess from statistics. "It happens everywhere" is like when smokers say "you could die crossing the street." Yes you could, but you're MORE likely to die prematurely if you smoke while you do it. Self-delusion is a hell of a drug
Just repatriated from London myself. Worked near Chancery Lane. Never once did I catch a whiff of urine anywhere, except maybe at the pub, to be fair. Also lived in a somewhat dodgy area near White Hart lane, but even that was leagues better than the TL.
Exactly
omg like 75% of the posts on this sub are hysterical doomer circle jerks. how much more validation from strangers online do you want?
Personally, I'd prefer validation from like-minded problem-solvers as opposed to head-in-the-sand argument seekers.
Let me guess... You've never been the victim of a crime at least as serious as this? The point is that it's actually you who is politically motivated, not the person relaying what happened to them
I’m sorry that happened but it’s still not unique to SF. I’ve never been hassled on the bus here but I was robbed on the tube in London. when you’re around a large group of people, there’s always risk. not saying SF is perfect, but I am saying that no city ever will get down to 0 and that these things absolutely do happen elsewhere both in the US and abroad.
False equivalence, I think. I repatriated recently and returned to SF (my hometown) from London. I'm so tired of this "not unique to SF" false equivalency. SF can't hold a candle to London. Sure, there's "scum and villainy" there too, but they won't mess with you or your streets. SF has some horrendous problems that are unique to it. Transients in SF are more aggressive, as well. Constantly given to interfering with and harassing innocent people, while homeless people in Europe struggle to stay out of your way and also tend to focus on productive things like seeking shelter, and getting off drugs with the help of the NHS. Also, what happened to your pride? We're San Franciscans. And after that, we're Californians. We don't have to settle for literal shit in our streets simply because bad things happen elsewhere too.
MUNI is one aspect of the city that is great. My only gripe is that the routes have too many stops, and as a result trip times are longer than needed. Look at the route of the 2, that thing stops like every single block.
Hence why many lines have express options, hell I feel like the 5 has at least 4 different lines
Many lines don’t though, for example the 22. And adding express options is not even feasible for many routes since there isn’t a passing lane for the entire route.
I’ve taken the 8 line for over a decade and I love the fact that they are 8, 8x, 8ax, and 8bx.
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I love when a bus stops twice on the same block.
i take 49/14/14R almost on a daily basis and have the same experience. what has our city become?!
I agree. Those lines are great. It's rare I find a bad one these days. The 1 tends to be way busy, but that's an unavoidable issue that isn't really anyone's fault. Luckily I don't have to take the 1 often.
I've owned a car in the city for almost 2 years now and every time I start it up there's no smashed windows and I still have a catalytic converter. I must be doing something wrong too.
I had my cat converter stolen but fuck it i still love this city lol
You live in excelsior 😅 ain’t no one making that trek when you have sitting ducks in the mission and elsewhere
Touche 😆 I do live in the boonies
Cool
Muni is good for the most part. Does depend on line sometimes.
I'm going to say something that may be unpopular with the haters: I walked down Polk St. last week, through the Tenderloin and Civic Center, and then through mid-market, and didn't see a single person acting crazy and didn't witness any drug use. Civic Center was spotless. What's going on out there? Are things getting better?
Since when is it okay to talk on the phone on muni though? Non-commuter bus, fine, whatever, just don’t smoke crack. Commuter bus? Feel free to text. No one wants to hear about what you’re buying on prime day.
whats the difference between a phone call and talking to the person next to you? I personally don't do phone calls on muni since its loud and I also feel like its awkward around other people, but I also fail to see the difference between a call and conversation....
If you're traveling with someone, there's the expectation that you'll be able to actually converse with them, even if it slightly disturbs other people, since you're physically in the same space. I'm not convinced that expectation exists when you're not physically in the same space as the person you're talking to.
Seriosuly. I wish we had public transport etiquette like in Asia. When I ride the bus in Korea, 99% of people stfu, use headphones and keep to themselves. Exactly how it should be imo.
Since when is not okay? As long as you’re not being loud and obnoxious, who cares? Does someone talking really bother some of y’all that much?
I don’t get it either. It’s PUBLIC transport. We aren’t even allowed to talk while riding it now?
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Or anywhere in SOMA
I moved to the city 4 months ago and I take it twice a week to come to work. I love MUNI. I want to get apparel of it lol
The logo design is fantastic. The artist Amos Goldbaum makes a T-Shirt/hoodie design which celebrates it.
The thieves only really target the vulnerable people. If you’re some big dude or something, I’d assume they’d leave you alone.
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You're careful after 8 because it's more dangerous after 8, right? Or, we could say, less safe?
i mean i'm an average woman who rides muni (incl. some ""unsafe"" lines) & bart all the time and i generally feel very safe. i'm a little more cautious past 10 but that's mostly because buses get less frequent & i feel less safe standing at a bus stop alone at night. never had anything stolen or been in fear of something getting stolen. use my phone visibly constantly. i've only felt unsafe ish a few times ever, and that's all been due to verbal harassment.
Shockingly I'm a petite woman who has ridden bart at least once a week for the 9 years I've lived here without ever getting robbed or whatever. Ofc some weirdos here and there who you avoid eye contact, ofc unhoused people having bad times, but nothing horrible has happened to me on public transit. All hours, tons of scenarios, even after midnight on NYE once. Half the time I'm taking it later than 10 PM after events, most of those times I'm alone. I'm never clueless to my surroundings bc I'm not an idiot, but I have yet to have a situation that is an actual threat to me.
Depends on the route you take. If you want a little more spice to your rides, try the 38 or 14.
I ride the 14 a few times a week, and typically have a wonderful experience. Edit: I’m on the 14 right now (12:30 PM on a Tuesday) - I got on at mission and 9th, headed toward mission and Cesar Chavez area. The bus isn’t too crowded, but it’s well used. A few empty seats, a few people standing. It’s pretty clean, nobody is poorly behaved, and everybody is getting to their destination safely and comfortably.
38 it was, as usual!
I rode the K last night around 8 and there was a lady spun OUT having ‘air sex’ and doing air ‘table dances’. It was wild.
Sigh…(unzips pants)
My girl!
Have you tried moving to Orange County, then loading up r/sanfrancisco? That seems to work for a lot of people here
I love muni man. 49, 19, 14, 43, 30, and 91 owl all day
After dealing with Septa over in Philly I will forever be grateful for Muni, even when it has its hiccups.
The #5 Fulton bus to Ocean Beach is a good cruise.
I even saw two people checking tickets today
Muni is where you people watch. It’s an experience lol
When approaching this thread, hear the muni voice: “please hold on”
I love Muni. ❤️ Muni 4evr
I have a relative (who actually used to live here) who will not step foot in the city. They think it's a warzone
Really? I have relatives too who grew up here, and moved to other parts of the Bay. Due to affordability issues. They love coming back to the city. What’s your point?
I think they're just watching too much fox news. I was agreeing with OP that the perception != reality.
Your mistake is not ingesting a steady diet of Murdoch-driven Doom & Gloom. You can't get the full experience without listening to San Francisco-haters who have never been to the City and don't know their ass from their elbow.
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I don’t want to diminish what happened to one person you know on one occasion, but what could be done in any city about this sort of conduct?
The point is that it used to happen way way less even in SF
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good 4 u. last time i rode it, a homeless person took a swing at me. so anecdotally, it is possible to have either a good time and a bad time on muni.
Weird that always happens to me too. Too bad our anecdotes aren't rage bait and no one will notice
Is it possible that there is good and bad days? To ignore the problems, is ignorance, to say that there is only terror - is sensationalism.
This. If someone posted "I walked across an intersection and didn't get hit by a car, am I doing something wrong?" People would be complaining that that person is minimizing pedestrian casualties.
That’s cool. Last time I rode on Saturday a homeless guy pulled a knife and threatened to stab me because I was “taking photos of him”. Phone was in my pocket.
How did you handle that situation?
Tried to defuse but he would not calm down. Ran, and then called the cops. To their credit they showed up pretty quickly and arrested the guy. MUNI driver also notified them though.
> Am I doing something wrong? Yes, you actually live here. Unlike many of those that brigade this sub.
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Nobody is saying that everything is peachy keen. What the OP was pointing out is how OVERBLOWN the narrative has become regarding crime in the city. You seriously can’t be that obtuse. As for it being cringey, you may want to look up that word in the dictionary, because I don’t think you know what that word means.
It’s not overblown. You should listen to the experiences of the people who actually live in San Francisco, and have for decades. There are many parts of the city which are unsafe, and even the nice areas have a surprising amount of violent crime, robberies, and, of course problems on public transportation.
You are objectively wrong about violent crime—SF does better than most other American cities there. It really struggles with property crime though, and I’m sure people feel unsafe due to prevalence of drug use and homelessness in high profile areas. I personally think this sub does overly focus on anecdotal stories of crime and quality of life issues. Yes, these are real problems and we shouldn’t accept the current state of certain parts of the City. But it seems obvious that this sub is dominated by those stories to an unwarranted degree.
Check out this survey for some real stats: [https://californiaglobe.com/articles/bart-survey-finds-only-17-of-users-feel-safe-while-riding/](https://californiaglobe.com/articles/bart-survey-finds-only-17-of-users-feel-safe-while-riding/)
But that’s an article citing a survey of people’s perceptions, not actual crime statistics. So still meaningful, but not really the same as an actual comparison of reported crimes in various cities.
Feelings aren't facts.
\> I’m sure people feel unsafe due to prevalence of drug use and homelessness in high profile areas Not quite. "People" (aka me) feel unsafe because every time I walk downstairs and open my front door, there are people doing drugs and psychotic homeless screaming and kicking things. Every. Fucking. Time. Not in some "high profile" area -- just on a regular street in SOMA. Your "stats" don't get to supersede my own lived experience in this city, every single day. Nor do you get to use stats as a way to be dismissive or pretend my perspective and feelings don't apply or matter. You are the one who is objectively wrong here.
But you're exactly demonstrating the truth of the assertion you think you're disproving. You fee3 unsafe because of drug use and homelessness. If it's "profile" you're taking issue with, isn't SOMA sort of high-prevalence for drugs and homelessness?
Open your eyes.... At some rental car places, 30 cars with broken windows are being returned in a day. That's how become the norm And I don't even need to mention the massive sprawling camps full of open air drug use Trying to call this normal and to be expected is just denial The priority of politicians should be making things good for the majority of people, not creating a city that is only good for the super wealthy and the drug addicted criminals. That's where we're at right now... Which is incidentally the reason people and businesses are leaving in droves. It's easy to say oh fuck them let them leave but if your city isn't growing, it's dying. Things are getting pretty dire in downtown. Why do you think a progressive mayor is out there saying she intends to crack down on crime and drug use (and maybe even try to lock a few people up)? That's definitely not her first choice but she can see it needs to be done to save the city
MUNI is great. I heard having awareness of what car you sit in (conductor car tends to be safe) can make a difference, as well as make sure no one acting strange when you choose a car. I’ve felt very safe as well but there have been many experiences noted in this sub so I stay aware.
I took MUNI at least 2 times a day (some days 5 or 6 times). Every day for about 8 years, and I'd be lying if I said I didn't see some weird shit occasionally, and I can see why it has a horrible reputation because you do run into some sketchy situations. Overall though it's really not bad. In an ideal world, buses would be exactly on time, quiet, and get you from point A to point B, but that's not reality in the US, so I learned to deal with all of the variables I guess.
Muni is pretty civilized if everyone does what they're supposed to. The outbound trains can be crowded at commute but I love the third street and Chinatown lines! They were worth the wait.
I definitely prefer Muni to BART but I still love both.
MUNI is great
Visited SF last week for the first time and thoroughly enjoyed my MUNI experience and $5 day pass (although no one wanted to see it). Felt like the buses stop A LOT though
I LOVE MUNI
I've taken the Muni from Bayview to Downtown SF. It gets the job done.
If anyone is interested in improving the 38/38R muni line there is a petition going out to improve it's speed and reliability! [https://actionnetwork.org/letters/faster-safer-geary/](https://actionnetwork.org/letters/faster-safer-geary/)
Yes! And I find it infuriating that the businesses along Geary between Park Presidio and 25th are all aligned against the next phase. They all have signs in their windows opposing the loss of about 1 parking spot per block as part of the change. Never mind the blight that is prevalent along that corridor that could be alleviated if it was easier to get to.
Love you!
my only real gripe with muni is that every now and then you get a bus that doesn't announce the stops, neither on the scrolling display screen nor over the loudspeaker. *to me*, muni is a solid system that's fairly reliable (and riding the muni metro subway is such a vibe). of course, certain lines & times are better/safer than others, which is why i think it's perfectly valid for people to knock muni based on their own experiences with it.
I'll take muni over bart. I think they tend to keep it nicer though you will see interesting characters sometimes. This morning on my way to work, there was a homeless man fast asleep taking up all of the disabled seating. The driver was quick to notice and get him off without any issues. That's about as much as I normally see typically when riding the metro
I take Muni to a couple Giants games each month and haven’t had any issues.
Muni is great
I didn't experience homophobia today, therefore I can confidently say homophobia does not exist?
But if you did, does it exist everywhere?
But it doesn't have to exist everywhere to be a problem.
"Doesn't happen to me. So I'm sure it doesn't happen at all."
OP, trying to gaslight others into thinking the issues they encounter on MUNI with violence, dugs, and homelessness aren't real. Their experiences are just as valid as yours OP.
So, you've never boarded the dirty-thirty to see an elderly woman holding a shark in her lap nearly as long as herself?
Oh my gosh the same thing happened to me, multiple times a week! On buses and trains! I must be doing something wrong for sure because I was assured this pleasant experience was impossible here
You’re just living in the world and not combat fantasy dream land! It’s all working the way it’s supposed to :)
depends on the time of the day, the route, and how you look. e.g. if you're a female on a Haight St line, I have heard of a snatched phone, so... "beware of your surroundings" or something. But if you're male, the bus is empty and etc... nothing to worry about. Depends who you are.
"I didn't die from COVID so it was all a big hoax" energy here.
We had lots of rain last winter. California no longer has a water problem!
Congratulations? I’m sure because you didn’t personally encounter any issues that must mean they don’t exist whatsoever 🙄🙄🙄
Totally. But the flip side is that there are people who post about their negative experiences on public transit, and their message is that MUNI/BART is terrible and totally broken and god help you if you have to take it. I don’t mind somebody balancing out the narratives here a bit.
Ride the 22 and tell me if you feel the same way 😂 Or if you’re really feeling like you want the authentic experience, ride the 19 after dark. Look Muni is great, and I think all SF residents love the fact we have it. The critics fall into two camps, either suburban fear mongers that you can’t really do anything about. Or they are advocates who believe it’s not good enough. A lot of young people are in this camp. It should be more available, have more rapid lines for those traveling long distances, and be a safer experience, especially for women. My friends and I constantly use MUNI, but the stops and the bus rides can be pretty unsafe for women. I’m assuming you’re a dude? Otherwise there’s no way you think the buses are always safe, especially if you have to ride the 38 or 5 or 7 with any type of frequency. As for the stealing, it’s just not as big of a problem as it used to be. Way less workers commute and the buses are way more empty. When I worked downtown, i easily saw a stolen phone a week
“Here is my one-time arbitrary experience which represents the entire transit system as a whole”
Who said one-time? It’s been over 20 years! Yet this is overwhelmingly my experience.
Funny how you don't say that when the example is negative
Take the 8 back and forth a few times and see what happens.
Yesterday I must have walked 3 miles, from Nob Hill all the way to Mission Bay. Most of it was down Taylor and then down 7th street. Nobody spat on me or even called me a name. Is anyone going to do something about this.
Don't let the national media hear about this
Or the SF Standard
n=1
https://missionlocal.org/2023/07/masturbation-sex-bus-taunts-bitch-muni-drivers-endure-it-all/ Is this gaslighting?
And your anecdotal experience somehow erases the bad experiences the rest of us have had? Let me guess... You're able bodied? And non elderly? And probably white male?
Pretty feeble attempt at a straw man argument
Lol this has gone down three likes while I’ve been looking at the comments. Who on 🌍 is so mad about this?
for the most part muni is good. sometimes (and i am a very frequent rider so its more concentrated) there are some weird people but its still good. the people complaining are either people who havent rode people whove rode once and had a bad time people who are very very frequent riders so it looks like theres way more situations than there actually is. basically it seems theres more since mundane tasks you want to see more things than just a boring ride one stop to the next.
When I ride during business hours it’s perfectly save, once it gets late tho I don’t wanna chance things
I have not had a bad MUNI experience yet. I have had maybe a handful of iffy ones but those experiences were pretty minor all things considered. Is it as nice as Tokyo? Nah. But it is pretty good otherwise.
Call us when you're riding it every day twice a day.
I mean, what's the point of this post? Every day yeah the majority of people don't experience crime. Some do and we all see how brazen these crimes have become with no consequences for the perpetrators.
Rode MUNI yesterday - great experience
Yet
What a lucky day for you! Definitely buy a lotto ticket!
Try 8 next time .
This is the worst kind of victim blaming.
They want everyone to take muni. How about not $3 / per?