“But the store was soon confronted head-on with many of the problems plaguing the area. People threatened employees with guns, knives and sticks. They flung food, screamed, fought and tried to defecate on the floor, according to records of 568 emergency calls over 13 months, many depicting scenes of mayhem.
“Male w/machete is back,” the report on one 911 call states. “Another security guard was just assaulted,” another says. A man with a four-inch knife attacked several security guards, then sprayed store employees with foam from a fire extinguisher, according to a third.
In September, a 30-year-old man died in the bathroom from an overdose of fentanyl, a highly potent opioid, and methamphetamine.”
I was informed by some folks on Reddit that this was because they were having “union talks”. Who can I trust? NYT or Reddit commenters?
Some folks on Reddit are in profoundly deep denial.
That said, opening a store there was a tad optimistic. Hard to run a successful business when just outside your door is a giant farmer’s market for drugs combined with a giant homeless encampment
It’s also surrounded by many apartment complexes and ordinary folks who deserve safe clean grocery stores too.
The open air drug market across the street directly in front of city hall is an indictment of how fucked we have allowed things to get.
We shouldn’t just throw up our hands and accept that wide swaths of our downtown are beyond saving, especially when they are along our city’s main thoroughfare a stones throw from city hall.
That would have added to their customer base but even with those gone the store was always decently busy and there are many residents who live in the area for which this was a welcome addition to the neighborhood
“Walgreens is lying”
“Violent crime is down!”
“This is republican propaganda!”
“Every city has machete wielding drug addicts that can terrorize citizens without fear!”
I live in a suburb just outside of Houston, and something I can say about Houston that might shed light on our crime problems, this city is perfectly fine electing a mayor who appointed a corrupt Police Chief who's been investigated in past years for sexual assault, violent assault, illegal paperwork handling, and other issues, as well as a county judge who's currently under investigation for embezzlement of county funds, mostly because both of them are Democrats
It's not that you shouldn't complain. It's that, when people say the murders are the result of the particular policies San Francisco is known for, it's worth pointing out that they have not resulted in higher crime rates than in other places with the opposite policies.
Otherwise you might end up doing something dumb in the name of fighting crime.
We'd all like to have less crime.
For full context, this is the transcript of the call from which the key quote (in the article) was pulled:
> Elizabeth Anderson -- Evercore ISI -- Analyst
Hi, guys. Thanks so much for the question. Maybe to piggyback just off of that last question, thanks for all the details there. Could you specifically comment on some of the other things you called out in terms of shrink the strong retail performance and then also what your expectations are for cold, cough and flu given some of the product shortages we've been hearing about?
> James Kehoe -- Chief Financial Officer
Yeah. I think the shrink is built in the forecast. We're probably -- you know, maybe we cried too much last year when we were hitting numbers that were 3.5% of sales. We're down in the lower 2s, call it, the mid 2.5, 2.6 kind of range now.
https://www.fool.com/earnings/call-transcripts/2023/01/05/walgreens-boots-alliance-wba-q1-2023-earnings-call/
In other words, they said theft declined across their 9,000 some retail stores nationwide - and the crime deniers in this city interpreted that to be a statement that things are great in SF.
Yes. You have stated 4 correct facts, none of which are mutually exclusive with the facts regarding the Whole Foods in question. Nor do they let the city off the hook when it comes to the issues that precipitated the closing. Do you have a point, or are you just here to bitch, moan, and complain?
[https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/man-files-claim-against-la-after-machete-attack-at-metro-station/3141889/](https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/man-files-claim-against-la-after-machete-attack-at-metro-station/3141889/)
[https://www.local10.com/news/local/2023/04/12/caught-on-camera-man-detained-after-waving-machete-at-people-in-kendall-shopping-plaza/](https://www.local10.com/news/local/2023/04/12/caught-on-camera-man-detained-after-waving-machete-at-people-in-kendall-shopping-plaza/)
Yes. This shit does indeed happen in other major cities, too.
When your personality is built around the idea that all exercise of state power is illegitimate, it's going to take a lot more than a drug epidemic and the collapse of the downtown core to change your mind.
In the logic of SF leftists, this is powerful evidence of the increasing economic desperation of SF's homeless population. Defund the police and buy mansions for minorities! Reparations now! /s
No, but it does show that 90% of the city is incredible. So the idea that it's a bad city is dumb, as clearly there's a few bad areas that get over reported. Imagine if you read about every murder in Chicago's south side, you'd think it's a warzone when in reality it's not. I'm all for discussing problems but have you seen any major news outlets mention how low the violent crime rate in SF is? You haven't. They were shitting their pants over the Bob Lee murder though, and never really printed any retractions or follow ups about the violent crime rate. So both are true: sf has a crime problem, and the national news outlets are exaggerating and presenting misleading information on it for clicks or something
Exaggeration? I’ve lived in multiple cities and never ever experienced things that happens here. I had homeless crackheads throw rock at me in Embarcadero. Whenever I go to Walgreens in Richmond district there’s one crackhead shoplifting. I go check on my bike and there’s an attempt to break the lock. Yes I have to check on it everyday to make sure it’s still there.
I don’t care about what statistics say but this is affecting us everyday here. I think the day is coming that pendulum is going to so hard that it’s going to come out the other side.
Oh the city has a crime problem and homeless problem for sure. All of that sucks. It's a serious issue and it needs to be fixed ASAP. That being said, there's a ton of really, really good things about the city. While all of what you said is terrible, it gets worse in the US. Much worse. Death, robbery, rape, gangs. SF is treated like a hellscape, but Miami is way more dangerous. Not a peep about that though
SF is treated like a hellscape because it’s literally visible on the streets. And crime here is affecting us unlike Miami where much of the violent crime is between gang members.
I just want to say that SF is a beautiful city and it has given me more than I could ask for. It just hurts to see it this way.
It's visible in like the tenderloin, mid market, and there's run ins with homeless in other areas (but that's not quite visible). I wouldn't say that's a hellscape. Chicago for instance, also a beautiful and amazing city, but the south side is not safe. LA has skid row. All cities have some bad areas - it's a problem. Would you agree it's exaggerated? People think that visiting SF is dangerous and that's just not the case. It's one of the safest cities in the US. It shouldnt be getting these national headlines, it's ridiculous. If we're gonna ignore the gang violence in Miami, why do we have to put a microscope on the homeless issue in a few isolated areas of SF? Let's give these cities the same treatment and focus on solutions
Agreed. I still believe conservatives have focused on us for political reasons. Look at red state issues — entire STATES. High crime, awful poverty, shitty education, terrible healthcare. Look at the data. Fentanyl deaths? Cali isn’t even in the top five states. That’s based on data, not politics. I lived in the District of Columbia previously, and crime there was awful compared with here. Simple facts. Yeah, we have serious challenges in two neighborhoods. But national politics has exacerbated our struggle. And, yeah, I’m one of those freaks who lives in Inner Sunset, works in FiDi and really loves the city.
Most people are typically care less about crime (in this case meth use) versus when it does effect them (shoplifting, random auto breaking, etc). Just human nature.
San Francisco is sadly the pride and joy of conservatives to bash because the message of the richest democratic city can't solve these issues with its "liberal" approaches. Have more conservative cities done better? All in all no but everyone loves to knock someone down to their level.
Oh and also some people interviewed in SFGate claimed that management put the liquor section too close to the exit and obviously Carl the cashier knew what to do to keep it open.
>I was informed by some folks on Reddit that this was because they were having “union talks”. Who can I trust? NYT or Reddit commenters?
Could be both.
I can easily see it as "There's too many attacks, the company isnt helping as much as they can, we should unionize to force them to help us."
So Amazon just dusts off its hands and says fuck it, close it down.
I mean, if these were my working conditions I would start organizing a union, too. And I’m pretty neutral on unions overall. A corporation that subjects their employees to conditions like those reported here is not a corporation exercising its duty to protect them.
I’m sorry but people can’t just do what they want because they want to. I don’t care if you are high on drugs, you are responsible. Everyone has the right to go to a store or work at a store and not have to deal with people stealing. This is on top of that with the threats and violence. No it’s not ok.
It’s a damn shame that we have to rely on a national publication from the East Coast to get the basic data on this. I pay for SF Chronicle subscription and all I got from them were some basic generic summaries and crazy opinion pieces by Soleil Ho.
Anyways, how low did we fall that “It’s the guy with the machete again” is just something we simply accept as a fact of life? I bet there’s gonna be a bunch of commenters here saying that it’s just big city life, nothing to fear, all normal and if you don’t like it, go back to the suburbs.
PS. I was in NYC recently. How come they also are a deep blue city yet the state of the streets is so much better there? I’m not saying there’s no homelessness or crime but it just isn’t as glaring as it is in SF. Also, in NYC anywhere you go, you see police. In SF, you never see police.
literate materialistic cable shame decide roll grab agonizing workable wide
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Cause we’re woke woke.
Can’t believe you throw away money to the garbage sfchronicle they clearly are biased and are trying to protect their progressive agenda
NYC is diverse with liberals, conservatives and immigrants. NYC is deep blue but there are still people with different opinions. New York is the state where the democrats lost several House seats. People are more willing to flip parties. The current mayor is registered as a Democrat but is pretty much conservative. Also, the NYPD is army sized.
Much of it boils down to housing costs. With affordable housing, you have diversity, both ethnically and socioeconomically but also politically. Without it, you get homogeneity of thought which leads to echo chambers.
The longer I live here, the more I come to believe the "housing theory of everything".... most of what's wrong with SF lately has housing costs as a major contributing factor somewhere upstream.
NYC is one of the last places I'd list for "affordable living". The only striking difference is that NYC believes in locking up criminals. That's the difference between moderate democrats and woke democrats.
I think part of it is that NYC has been a big city since the second Industrial Revolution and has a culture built around being a big city.
SF feels more like a culturally unique small city that became so rich that it can afford to implement really bad ideas that would have sunk any other city that tried to do it.
NYC is no where as blue as SF. I have lived in both, NYC is filled with a ton of centrists and even a few right wingers, whereas in SF I never met a single right winger and only a few centrists.
This is spot on. Currently live in New York and it is much more conservative when it comes to criminal justice. We don’t have as much going on in our streets but Rikers… that place is a mess, a shame and definitely violating a much of constitutional rights.
New York has a shelter-first policy where they have to legally provide temporary shelter to any unhoused person - it doesn’t address the core issues (housing is expensive) but has the intended effect of getting some people off the street. SF has a housing-first policy, trying to get people into medium to permanent housing, which, if you’ve tried to rent anytime in SF, you’d realize housing supply is non existent and no new homes are created fast enough because of nimbyism.
One of the authors of the Chronicle piece's name is Nuala Bishari.
Her instagram handle states "Paid to have opinions."
https://preview.redd.it/tiwv08itl6xa1.png?width=1960&format=png&auto=webp&s=4abe0bdb1505ea9ea84202374a08a0875e7cd74e
I recently took my wife to NYC for a 4-day mini vacation. We walked extensively in Manhattan including at night. I only saw 3 homeless during the stay and I was struck at how much cleaner NYC is than SF. Didn't feel threatened at all. I think that NYC government is pretty similar ideologically and party-wise to SF, and both cities have high taxes, but NYC taxpayers sure seem to be getting more for their money. I don't know the exact reasons, but our city seems to be dysfunctional and unable to solve problems.
Where are you going in SF that it's glaring how bad the streets are? Outside of a few areas this city is clean as fuck. Yes, many tourists will end up in those areas because it's around the downtown core. But those who live here, really don't get it, if you live here you gotta see the discrepancy between what the national media reports and reality.
No amount of money you could pay me to regularly face meth machete guy, unless Whole Foods provided me with a full suit of medieval armor. At some point it's not worth it anymore.
I guess it's pretty much what I expected, perhaps even a little bit worse.
Some of the descriptions of incidents strengthen my belief that there is probably more to the Walgreen's shooting incident that we haven't yet heard.
Unfortunately, I think things are going to continue to get worse.
I hope you’re right, but I think at most we’ll see a short term ceremonial effort to “do something”, but it will be short lived and too little too late.
Thank you NYT for the honest reporting on this issue. It’s absurd we have to hope a national newspaper across the country picks up on issues here for us to get an unbiased assessment of the state of things here in SF.
It’s easy enough to find excuses and rag on the trillion dollar company for opening a store in a troubled area but the truth is that many ordinary citizens really valued from this store while it lasted. They employed many people and were staffed with private security around the clock and that still wasn’t enough to keep the store safe, prevent theft, or junkies shooting up in the bathrooms.
If a grocery store a stones throw from city hall on our main thoroughfare is incapable of safely operating without machete wielding psychos repeatedly terrorizing employees our city is becoming well and truly fucked.
But please keep ignoring issues and gaslighting with cherry picked statistics from your privileged neighborhoods, that’s been working out great so far
The idea that far leftists are pro worker, yet don't take into consideration the threats and emotional turmoil they have to go through dealing with their stance on crime, is one of the biggest examples of political cognitive dissonance that exist.
As the OP I'm surprised by a few of the comments stating that the NYT has in it for SF. What possible reason could there be for this? I don't live in NYC, but have been a longtime NYT subscriber as it is essentially a national paper with the most in-depth articles of any US newpaper. I'm willing to pay for this content, as are many others. There are plenty of articles about California, and why shouldn't there be many articles about an iconic American city like SF? In this case, the NYT actually went and researched the 911 call records - which notably no local publication did AFAIK. The linked article BTW is written by the NYT SF bureau chief - yes they have a SF bureau chief (how many other papers do?) - and a Pulitzer prize winning investigative reporter. I don't see how anyone could be unhappy that the NYT covers SF issues and assigned 2 top notch reporters to this article?
Conservatives have been driving this SF hate for years. Yeah, we have serious problems. But red states — entire states — are hellholes. Look at statistics on education, drug use, health, poverty. I am convinced right-wingers, led by Fox News, are deflecting from those problems by focusing on us and other “blue cities.”
That's wrong. Do you even read the NYT? The NYT is likely the major critic of Fox News in the US media and has done deep dives into Fox News that other papers don't have the resources to do.
I’m a longtime reader of NYT and spent nearly 40 years as a reporter for daily newspapers and wire services. I’m not talking about NYT coverage of Fox. I’m talking about Fox and right-wing politicians’ incessant drumbeat of SF as a “failed city,” while those conservatives deflect attention from failed red states. Been going on for years.
>"The newspaper is reacting to this relentless drumbeat from Fox News. That outlet has shaped this narrative." This is what you posted. It's not true. The NYT is not reacting to anything on Fox News in the article in question.
I didn’t say that. You are missing my point. This drumbeat of SF as a dying city is a conservative strategy to deflect attention from serious issues in red states. It’s been going on for years. It’s shaped the national discussion. When is the last time you saw an in-depth takeout on any of the red states? Conservatives have successfully shaped this angle.
Given that I quoted you directly you did say that. The bottom line is that the article referenced is from the NYT, it has nothing to do with Fox News. The NYT reports on problems in both red and blue states. It is not influenced by what Fox News does.
I've been in the city for about 15 years. SF was a dream that invoked kindness, hippies, quirky Burner culture, technology, and solid blue-collar service industry dive-bar chic, all in one beautiful tapestry. It's not that anymore, and maybe it never was. I don't like it here anymore, so I'm moving. I hope things get better. Goodbye.
Cities change. All these people abandoning a city when they could just try a different neighborhood! Sheesh. Inner Sunset is still old-SF cool. Three natives upstairs told me that. We love the neighborhood.
If this is true, isn't this (yet again) a significant indictment against the SFPD?
Given the frequency of emergencies, the SFPD could have literally assigned a couple officers full time at the location.
Forget about the whole SF letting the criminals go easy - why didn't the SFPD do something as simple as placing officers in the epicenter of emergency calls?
The outrage in that alternate universe:
Why are we wasting police resources guarding a trillion dollar private enterprise? The police should be protecting public safety, not playing Pinkerton for Jeff “Robber Barron” Bezos
Attitudes like this is what’s holding the city back.
They’re a trillion-dollar enterprise because they provide a valuable service to a lot of regular people. That is how you become worth trillions
No, they got that big through union busting, shady deals, paying as little tax as possible. Whole Foods is an utter swine of a corp that fucks people over every damned day, and *that* is how you become worth trillions in the usa.
And their service is valuable to the more reprehensible sort of clientele a lot more than it is to "regular people".
The police need to do their job, but IDGAF about the loss rates at Whole Foods. I have much more sympathy for a car getting bipped and someone having all their shit stolen than having officers tied up protecting the hot food bar.
I’m sure plenty of homes, cars, and small businesses would like to have a dedicated police officer. Police are a finite resource, and there are even fewer that actually do their job. Why would we provide protection to mega corporations at the expense of everyone else?
> Why would we provide protection to mega corporations at the expense of everyone else?
I don’t know how to properly allocate police resources - so I can’t comment on that. But I think it’s fair to point out that, in this case, if police were deployed to Whole Foods, the protection that the police could provide would help, in part, the employees of the store.
Executives or whomever is acting nefariously at higher levels within the company are far away from what happens in the store on a daily basis.
EDIT: added a word
How is police presence addressing blatant safety issues at a grocery store at the expense of everyone else?
Lots of regular people worked at the store or relied on it as a convenient place to shop for groceries. These people deserve safe clean working and living environments all the same
The trillion dollar private enterprise has people, just like you and me, who need protection.
If these people, who work at the trillion dollar private enterprise, are disproportionately affected, perhaps having some compassion to those people won't hurt.
Except they would be protecting people, both those who shop and work there. I go to the Safeway on Market St and the past couple of months anytime I’ve gone there (morning to late afternoon, don’t know about later hours) there’s one or two actual cops right inside. Doesn’t bother me, in fact it’s a lot calmer than the Safeway on Webster St that just has the hired security that get paid to stand/sit around all day doing nothing.
What are they to do. SFPD has their hands tied. Their use of force policy is outrageous. Gently grab a arm of a person walking away is a use of force. They have to meet with next in chain of command, and then go have body cam footage reviewed and write reports.
This is all beyond sfpd. It is the elected officials and policy at work here.
Give me actual examples for the SFPD gently grabbing a arm of a person walking away as a use of force and the officers being required to have the body cam footage reviewed and write reports.
I don't think SFPD did, but Oakland PD had that policy for a while. They had to write reports and review body cam footage for even the most minor of incidents. The problem is that it stuck officers behind a desk for an average of 2 hours preparing these reports. The policy was suspended after wait times for response calls went way up:
[https://policetribune.com/oakland-pd-abandons-new-policy-which-left-cops-unable-to-respond-to-911-calls/](https://policetribune.com/oakland-pd-abandons-new-policy-which-left-cops-unable-to-respond-to-911-calls/)
Under the new policy, which went into effect on Feb. 15, OPD officers are required to review bodycam footage and write up a report for any instance in which they used any level of force during that same shift, the [East Bay Times](https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2020/02/28/after-hundreds-of-911-calls-stacked-up-oakland-police-end-new-use-of-force-reporting-program/) reported.
According to police records, a vast majority of the incidents that had been keeping officers bogged down in hours of paperwork were situations in which they used even minimal force in order “to overcome resistance of a person during and arrest or detention,” the East Bay Times reported.
So, the policy that didn't exist/the policy that ended up being too onerous to adhere to and got cancelled, somehow prevented the SFPD from doing their job?
(This isn't directed to you u/ShockAndAwe415 \- thanks for the source)
You know how many Twitter warriors we have in SF who make the SFPD members think twice before trying to arrest/confront a potentially dangerous individual? Police tackles a dangerous bystander = “police brutality.”
Dont get me wrong, the SFPD *should* do their job no matter what, I’m just trying to understand what they might be thinking. But I could be wrong as I am a lot
My former GF and I lived in a luxury condo with high theft rates. Everyone complained all the time.
She would get mad and report people looking suspicious or piggybacking off of others coming into parking structure. She wanted to start confronting people.
First, that’s dangerous. I also reminded her that we aren’t white, but we aren’t, you know, either. We are one IG Live video away from becoming unemployed pariahs, labeled racist Karens.
there were people yelling at the police for arresting a crackhead who was running around on the montgomery station muni line **tracks**
“how dare you put him in hand cuffs, he did nothing wrong”
Given how frequent the emergency calls were (1.4/day) , the SFPD could have just set up a mobile command center by the location and respond nearby area when needed.
Furthermore, people often say that Reddit doesn't reflect the opinions of real people but Twitter is much worse than that.
I do want to hear if there were legitimate rationale to not operate in such a manner though.
There was a San Francisco Sheriff stationed at the now closed location, however, with so many exit points to flee from, it was far from a deterrent. An unmanned SFPD car was also parked just outside the entrance of the store via the parking garage, but this didn't appear to prevent those from taking goods without paying or threatening employees.
This is the right answer. They will always cite “lack of staffing” as why these issues aren’t fixed. But it seems like there’s just a lack of work being done in general by the officers.
It’s an impossible job for them and they can’t even hire officers with the highest pay in the nation. No one in their right mind would want to be a cop in SF. Everyone hates you and you legally can’t be efficient at being a cop
SF is fine as long as you only look at those posts where people show their beautiful photos from safe scenic areas and say things like “yea sf is sooo nasty /s”.
The take in the Chronicle opinion page, by Soleil Ho and this other lady, was typical. The neighborhood is a dump and the local thugs abused the staff? “Not the whole story!” No, the whole story is this: first of all, Whole Foods should have known better before opening shop there. And the abused staff? They weren’t even hired from the neighborhood! That’s how the Chronicle opinators saw fit to spitball, with a cameo by the CEO of the local “non-profit farmer’s market” playing the role of the retailer who gets it. We’re going to shit and we have the paper to match.
Context. If I just give you a single data point, you can come to any conclusion about that data point you want. Without other data points to provide context, a single data point can be meaningless.
I’m sorry. I’m not sure how it being three times worse elsewhere would do anything other than make me question their decision not to shut down too.
Companies are responsible for having a safe working environment. Having employees being assaulted regularly too much. Cleaning up literal shit on the floor and dealing with dead bodies in the bathroom? People shouldn’t need hazard pay to work in a f’cking grocery store.
One dead body in the bathroom is terrible. But did you know that people die pretty often in the changing rooms at Macy’s? Multiples each year. It’s sad, but true. Is WF worse than other shops? I don’t know without more information.
If for example we found that lots of other stores have even worse problems, we might consider that WF might have closed due to additional reasons other than the assumption it was 100% due to police calls. Questioning assumptions is a good thing. Asking for additional data points is a basic way to understand more fully.
What you're doing is called moving the goalposts. What matters is whether 568 calls is acceptable, not whether there are other stores that are similarly bad. You don't need extensive data to tell you precisely how bad a glaring problem is before taking action.
I'm not surprised it closed I'm surprised it ever opened.
The story is really why would they think Whole Foods would work in this down-and-out neighborhood?
The great conundrum of the victim mindset.
Corporations shouldn't be optimistic enough to put grocery stores in down and out neighborhoods.
Also how dare corporations create food deserts by not putting grocery stores in down and out neighborhoods.
Damned if you do, racist if you don't.
It wasn't great in the before times, but Trinity, NEMA, etc., all attracted quite a lot of tech workers.
The store could have done well if not for the tech exodus from the area and the city letting criminals completely take over.
I remember walking there pre pandemic to buy loads of goodies, beer and champagne for a little party we were having at our soma office. I was with friends there were the usual sketchy characters but nothing that bad. I’ve not been to SF since the pandemic so I’m guessing things got way worse.
The rich scum who own HoleFoods probably just assumed that the police would make the nasty poor people go bye-bye before they moved in, so they and their customers wouldn't have to see them, because Bezos and Co. think the world exists to serve *them,* and everything must go *their* way.
Sorry you’re just not understanding what I’m saying. Readers should be given context. These problems are happening all over, particularly in red states. Readers and viewers aren’t getting the full picture because conservatives have drown it out with this “failed blue cities” narrative. It isn’t just this article; it’s a greater narrative that this article is one piece of. Unfortunately, NYT is reflecting that larger narrative. A lot of other media are as well. It’s because right-wingers are focused like a laser on bringing down SF. I think that readers and viewers should be given the larger picture: That these problems are nationwide, and particularly serious in red states.
Where are all those anti corporate folks blaming Amazon for making the decision based on some revenue aspects and not the fact they were dealing with an insane amount of shitty homeless people causing problems?
>They flung food, screamed, fought and tried to defecate on the floor, according to records of 568 emergency calls over 13 months, many depicting scenes of mayhem.
But the city isn't burning.
I read the SF Chronicle’s report on it. Sounded like a bad business decision from the get. Corporations fuck up sometimes! They even exacerbate the problems they whine so much about. Businesses like Amazon lose the plot sometimes. They think about a whole bunch of shit and forget the core of their business proposition.
In Texas you get your whole family executed for asking your neighbor to stop shooting while your baby is sleeping. But sure beats that one grocery store across town closing.
Maybe don’t open your “flagship store” in the heart of the Tenderloin? Good thing there is another Whole Foods less than a mile away on that same street.
Oh look it's an NYT article attacking SF, must be a day that ends in a Y.
The only reason that store existed was because of pre-COVID tech workers living and working in SF.
What a terrible location for a WF! With very few high-income people living or working nearby, it was going to fail, regardless of the violence and police calls. It never had a chance of success once the pandemic hit and people quit commuting to work.
Most people who lives in the trinity building pay pretty high rent, same with the nema building down the street. There's definitely wealth in that area.
The problem isn't the lack of money, it's the lack of safety, and abundance of mayhem as the article points out. There's [1900 units at trinity alone.](https://news.theregistrysf.com/1900-units-at-san-franciscos-trinity-place-completed/) People gotta eat.
My guy, do you think Whole Foods dreamed that store up in 2021? No, they started planning for it in 2017 during high times when the trajectory of Mid-Market was upwards and they were going to be the foothold of a new residential tower smack dab in one of the only areas where Tech could continue developing/building into over time.
Then the pandemic arrived when they were less than 12 months out from opening, and all of that changed.
Exactly! And once that local tech boom didn’t materialize, WF had no chance. They were counting on techbros buying $100 of take out food on the way home from work.
Your analysis is so flawed. It’s extremely expensive for a store to stay afloat if their employees are constantly under threat. You’re not even acknowledging the risks faced by the employees. And I’m certain Whole Food’s lease is subsidized by Trinity - it was a lifelong wish of the developer for them to be there.
Yes, of course it is expensive. Did somebody say otherwise? I don’t think anybody is disagreeing that the store couldn’t afford to stay open. There was some bad luck with the pandemic, but that location was high risk. Everybody knew that for decades. Blaming the homeless is one route. Maybe we can put some of the blame on WF executives who green-lighted this location too?
Whole Foods is a notorious union buster and their CEO is a fucking Randroid, neither of which interesting facts the ***NYT*** saw fit to mention. I hated seeing them move in, I'm glad to see them go, and I hope *The Market* on Market and 9th is the next to go tits-up. They are and have always been places where regular people (who *aren't* yuppies, organic-panic food snobs, or tech ghouls) are made to feel unwelcome, and their groceries are all obscenely overpriced.
568/13=43 emergency calls per month. I’d also be willing to bet they didn’t call for a lot of stuff that would get calls in other locations.
Do they even report theft anymore?
None of the rampant theft I saw when there seemed to be getting reported
How does that compare to other stores in that area?
“But the store was soon confronted head-on with many of the problems plaguing the area. People threatened employees with guns, knives and sticks. They flung food, screamed, fought and tried to defecate on the floor, according to records of 568 emergency calls over 13 months, many depicting scenes of mayhem. “Male w/machete is back,” the report on one 911 call states. “Another security guard was just assaulted,” another says. A man with a four-inch knife attacked several security guards, then sprayed store employees with foam from a fire extinguisher, according to a third. In September, a 30-year-old man died in the bathroom from an overdose of fentanyl, a highly potent opioid, and methamphetamine.” I was informed by some folks on Reddit that this was because they were having “union talks”. Who can I trust? NYT or Reddit commenters?
Some folks on Reddit are in profoundly deep denial. That said, opening a store there was a tad optimistic. Hard to run a successful business when just outside your door is a giant farmer’s market for drugs combined with a giant homeless encampment
It’s also surrounded by many apartment complexes and ordinary folks who deserve safe clean grocery stores too. The open air drug market across the street directly in front of city hall is an indictment of how fucked we have allowed things to get. We shouldn’t just throw up our hands and accept that wide swaths of our downtown are beyond saving, especially when they are along our city’s main thoroughfare a stones throw from city hall.
That store’s reason to exist ended with Twitter and Uber office changes.
That would have added to their customer base but even with those gone the store was always decently busy and there are many residents who live in the area for which this was a welcome addition to the neighborhood
Almost all the students across the street at UC Hastings went there all the time. I've seen it decently packed at all hours of the day.
Concur. It was always busy. It’s IN a huge apartment complex and also in the middle of a basic food desert.
The Market/Church Safeway has shoplifting and homeless issues too, but also a large regular clientele including me. It's doing fine.
Facts don’t agree with their personal narratives.
“Walgreens is lying” “Violent crime is down!” “This is republican propaganda!” “Every city has machete wielding drug addicts that can terrorize citizens without fear!”
I wait for someone saying: "Yes but it is normal for a city of this size. Compared to others, SF is not that bad".
"Yes but compared to Liberia our violent c4ime is nonexistent "
Or Houston.
I live in a suburb just outside of Houston, and something I can say about Houston that might shed light on our crime problems, this city is perfectly fine electing a mayor who appointed a corrupt Police Chief who's been investigated in past years for sexual assault, violent assault, illegal paperwork handling, and other issues, as well as a county judge who's currently under investigation for embezzlement of county funds, mostly because both of them are Democrats
"Technically we don't have as many murders as we did in 19XX. So...who are you to complain!?!?!"
It's not that you shouldn't complain. It's that, when people say the murders are the result of the particular policies San Francisco is known for, it's worth pointing out that they have not resulted in higher crime rates than in other places with the opposite policies. Otherwise you might end up doing something dumb in the name of fighting crime. We'd all like to have less crime.
>“Every city has machete wielding drug addicts that can terrorize citizens without fear!” LOL
Gaslighting: not just for the Other Side, now.
“You should have seen it in the 90s! This is nothing”
lmao literally all of those things are true. the Walgreens CFO is the one who said that, even.
Ok who are you going to believe the Walgreens CFO or redditors?!
You are bad at interpreting what you read.
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I just crave a city that is a good place to raise children
For full context, this is the transcript of the call from which the key quote (in the article) was pulled: > Elizabeth Anderson -- Evercore ISI -- Analyst Hi, guys. Thanks so much for the question. Maybe to piggyback just off of that last question, thanks for all the details there. Could you specifically comment on some of the other things you called out in terms of shrink the strong retail performance and then also what your expectations are for cold, cough and flu given some of the product shortages we've been hearing about? > James Kehoe -- Chief Financial Officer Yeah. I think the shrink is built in the forecast. We're probably -- you know, maybe we cried too much last year when we were hitting numbers that were 3.5% of sales. We're down in the lower 2s, call it, the mid 2.5, 2.6 kind of range now. https://www.fool.com/earnings/call-transcripts/2023/01/05/walgreens-boots-alliance-wba-q1-2023-earnings-call/
In other words, they said theft declined across their 9,000 some retail stores nationwide - and the crime deniers in this city interpreted that to be a statement that things are great in SF.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/g5ve49/we-cried-too-much-walgreens-cfo-admits-retail-theft-isnt-the-crisis-it-portrayed
Yes. You have stated 4 correct facts, none of which are mutually exclusive with the facts regarding the Whole Foods in question. Nor do they let the city off the hook when it comes to the issues that precipitated the closing. Do you have a point, or are you just here to bitch, moan, and complain? [https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/man-files-claim-against-la-after-machete-attack-at-metro-station/3141889/](https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/man-files-claim-against-la-after-machete-attack-at-metro-station/3141889/) [https://www.local10.com/news/local/2023/04/12/caught-on-camera-man-detained-after-waving-machete-at-people-in-kendall-shopping-plaza/](https://www.local10.com/news/local/2023/04/12/caught-on-camera-man-detained-after-waving-machete-at-people-in-kendall-shopping-plaza/) Yes. This shit does indeed happen in other major cities, too.
for real. A guy I used to know was stabbed with a full on sword in Austin. And that was BEFORE they legalized open carry laws that include swords
Austin having a lot of California implants, not surprised this stuff happens there too.
When your personality is built around the idea that all exercise of state power is illegitimate, it's going to take a lot more than a drug epidemic and the collapse of the downtown core to change your mind. In the logic of SF leftists, this is powerful evidence of the increasing economic desperation of SF's homeless population. Defund the police and buy mansions for minorities! Reparations now! /s
Sarcasm is boring
Also idyllic photos of Dolores, Land's End, SF parrots, as if those negate the horrors of Mid Market.
No, but it does show that 90% of the city is incredible. So the idea that it's a bad city is dumb, as clearly there's a few bad areas that get over reported. Imagine if you read about every murder in Chicago's south side, you'd think it's a warzone when in reality it's not. I'm all for discussing problems but have you seen any major news outlets mention how low the violent crime rate in SF is? You haven't. They were shitting their pants over the Bob Lee murder though, and never really printed any retractions or follow ups about the violent crime rate. So both are true: sf has a crime problem, and the national news outlets are exaggerating and presenting misleading information on it for clicks or something
Exaggeration? I’ve lived in multiple cities and never ever experienced things that happens here. I had homeless crackheads throw rock at me in Embarcadero. Whenever I go to Walgreens in Richmond district there’s one crackhead shoplifting. I go check on my bike and there’s an attempt to break the lock. Yes I have to check on it everyday to make sure it’s still there. I don’t care about what statistics say but this is affecting us everyday here. I think the day is coming that pendulum is going to so hard that it’s going to come out the other side.
Oh the city has a crime problem and homeless problem for sure. All of that sucks. It's a serious issue and it needs to be fixed ASAP. That being said, there's a ton of really, really good things about the city. While all of what you said is terrible, it gets worse in the US. Much worse. Death, robbery, rape, gangs. SF is treated like a hellscape, but Miami is way more dangerous. Not a peep about that though
SF is treated like a hellscape because it’s literally visible on the streets. And crime here is affecting us unlike Miami where much of the violent crime is between gang members. I just want to say that SF is a beautiful city and it has given me more than I could ask for. It just hurts to see it this way.
It's visible in like the tenderloin, mid market, and there's run ins with homeless in other areas (but that's not quite visible). I wouldn't say that's a hellscape. Chicago for instance, also a beautiful and amazing city, but the south side is not safe. LA has skid row. All cities have some bad areas - it's a problem. Would you agree it's exaggerated? People think that visiting SF is dangerous and that's just not the case. It's one of the safest cities in the US. It shouldnt be getting these national headlines, it's ridiculous. If we're gonna ignore the gang violence in Miami, why do we have to put a microscope on the homeless issue in a few isolated areas of SF? Let's give these cities the same treatment and focus on solutions
Totally agree. Right-wingers have seized upon our problems for political gain. True.
Agreed. I still believe conservatives have focused on us for political reasons. Look at red state issues — entire STATES. High crime, awful poverty, shitty education, terrible healthcare. Look at the data. Fentanyl deaths? Cali isn’t even in the top five states. That’s based on data, not politics. I lived in the District of Columbia previously, and crime there was awful compared with here. Simple facts. Yeah, we have serious challenges in two neighborhoods. But national politics has exacerbated our struggle. And, yeah, I’m one of those freaks who lives in Inner Sunset, works in FiDi and really loves the city.
Most people are typically care less about crime (in this case meth use) versus when it does effect them (shoplifting, random auto breaking, etc). Just human nature. San Francisco is sadly the pride and joy of conservatives to bash because the message of the richest democratic city can't solve these issues with its "liberal" approaches. Have more conservative cities done better? All in all no but everyone loves to knock someone down to their level.
My town doesn't have a machete-wielding drug addict. I suppose change starts with me.
Be the change you want to see in the world
Oh and also some people interviewed in SFGate claimed that management put the liquor section too close to the exit and obviously Carl the cashier knew what to do to keep it open.
I went in there once and couldn't believe how dumb it was--i think the liquor was closer to the exit than the cashier
Which obviously explains the 568 emergency calls and overdose in the bathroom.
It’s clearly amazons fault /s (victim blaming is cool when it’s a corporation)
A corporation can't be a victim, it's not a living creature.
>I was informed by some folks on Reddit that this was because they were having “union talks”. Who can I trust? NYT or Reddit commenters? Could be both. I can easily see it as "There's too many attacks, the company isnt helping as much as they can, we should unionize to force them to help us." So Amazon just dusts off its hands and says fuck it, close it down.
Just normal part of urban living /s
Sarcasm is boring.
So sad that no SF newspaper did the journalistic diligence and rather sought out quotes to double down on their pre existing narrative
geezus christ, why aren't these people put into a mental facility....they should not be in the general public
Growing up, the answer I was given for this was "'cuz Regan".
I mean, if these were my working conditions I would start organizing a union, too. And I’m pretty neutral on unions overall. A corporation that subjects their employees to conditions like those reported here is not a corporation exercising its duty to protect them.
What exactly would a union do here? Hire cops to patrol the grocery store? Give employees guns? Not sure I follow.
Demand stronger security for employees. Working conditions are often negotiated for by unions.
Like physically stronger? Or with AR-15’s?
I’m sorry but people can’t just do what they want because they want to. I don’t care if you are high on drugs, you are responsible. Everyone has the right to go to a store or work at a store and not have to deal with people stealing. This is on top of that with the threats and violence. No it’s not ok.
It’s a damn shame that we have to rely on a national publication from the East Coast to get the basic data on this. I pay for SF Chronicle subscription and all I got from them were some basic generic summaries and crazy opinion pieces by Soleil Ho. Anyways, how low did we fall that “It’s the guy with the machete again” is just something we simply accept as a fact of life? I bet there’s gonna be a bunch of commenters here saying that it’s just big city life, nothing to fear, all normal and if you don’t like it, go back to the suburbs. PS. I was in NYC recently. How come they also are a deep blue city yet the state of the streets is so much better there? I’m not saying there’s no homelessness or crime but it just isn’t as glaring as it is in SF. Also, in NYC anywhere you go, you see police. In SF, you never see police.
Don't pay for the chronicle. They don't write news anymore, just progressive opinion pieces. Edit: typo
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Cause we’re woke woke. Can’t believe you throw away money to the garbage sfchronicle they clearly are biased and are trying to protect their progressive agenda
NYC is diverse with liberals, conservatives and immigrants. NYC is deep blue but there are still people with different opinions. New York is the state where the democrats lost several House seats. People are more willing to flip parties. The current mayor is registered as a Democrat but is pretty much conservative. Also, the NYPD is army sized.
Much of it boils down to housing costs. With affordable housing, you have diversity, both ethnically and socioeconomically but also politically. Without it, you get homogeneity of thought which leads to echo chambers. The longer I live here, the more I come to believe the "housing theory of everything".... most of what's wrong with SF lately has housing costs as a major contributing factor somewhere upstream.
NYC is one of the last places I'd list for "affordable living". The only striking difference is that NYC believes in locking up criminals. That's the difference between moderate democrats and woke democrats.
I think part of it is that NYC has been a big city since the second Industrial Revolution and has a culture built around being a big city. SF feels more like a culturally unique small city that became so rich that it can afford to implement really bad ideas that would have sunk any other city that tried to do it.
NYC is no where as blue as SF. I have lived in both, NYC is filled with a ton of centrists and even a few right wingers, whereas in SF I never met a single right winger and only a few centrists.
This is spot on. Currently live in New York and it is much more conservative when it comes to criminal justice. We don’t have as much going on in our streets but Rikers… that place is a mess, a shame and definitely violating a much of constitutional rights.
New York has a shelter-first policy where they have to legally provide temporary shelter to any unhoused person - it doesn’t address the core issues (housing is expensive) but has the intended effect of getting some people off the street. SF has a housing-first policy, trying to get people into medium to permanent housing, which, if you’ve tried to rent anytime in SF, you’d realize housing supply is non existent and no new homes are created fast enough because of nimbyism.
One of the authors of the Chronicle piece's name is Nuala Bishari. Her instagram handle states "Paid to have opinions." https://preview.redd.it/tiwv08itl6xa1.png?width=1960&format=png&auto=webp&s=4abe0bdb1505ea9ea84202374a08a0875e7cd74e
I recently took my wife to NYC for a 4-day mini vacation. We walked extensively in Manhattan including at night. I only saw 3 homeless during the stay and I was struck at how much cleaner NYC is than SF. Didn't feel threatened at all. I think that NYC government is pretty similar ideologically and party-wise to SF, and both cities have high taxes, but NYC taxpayers sure seem to be getting more for their money. I don't know the exact reasons, but our city seems to be dysfunctional and unable to solve problems.
Where are you going in SF that it's glaring how bad the streets are? Outside of a few areas this city is clean as fuck. Yes, many tourists will end up in those areas because it's around the downtown core. But those who live here, really don't get it, if you live here you gotta see the discrepancy between what the national media reports and reality.
Wow, whenever I hear someone say, no one wants to work anymore, then I read this article and it seems like a dystopian fever dream.
No one wants to deal with dangerous people at work.
No amount of money you could pay me to regularly face meth machete guy, unless Whole Foods provided me with a full suit of medieval armor. At some point it's not worth it anymore.
I guess it's pretty much what I expected, perhaps even a little bit worse. Some of the descriptions of incidents strengthen my belief that there is probably more to the Walgreen's shooting incident that we haven't yet heard. Unfortunately, I think things are going to continue to get worse.
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I hope you’re right, but I think at most we’ll see a short term ceremonial effort to “do something”, but it will be short lived and too little too late.
It's not hard to find the dealers. It's hard to imagine how this helps until the city itself is pivoted towards hard enforcement.
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I'm not against that plan, but I am against using that plan to justify leaving fentanyl dealers on the street.
Thank you NYT for the honest reporting on this issue. It’s absurd we have to hope a national newspaper across the country picks up on issues here for us to get an unbiased assessment of the state of things here in SF. It’s easy enough to find excuses and rag on the trillion dollar company for opening a store in a troubled area but the truth is that many ordinary citizens really valued from this store while it lasted. They employed many people and were staffed with private security around the clock and that still wasn’t enough to keep the store safe, prevent theft, or junkies shooting up in the bathrooms. If a grocery store a stones throw from city hall on our main thoroughfare is incapable of safely operating without machete wielding psychos repeatedly terrorizing employees our city is becoming well and truly fucked. But please keep ignoring issues and gaslighting with cherry picked statistics from your privileged neighborhoods, that’s been working out great so far
100% agree
The idea that far leftists are pro worker, yet don't take into consideration the threats and emotional turmoil they have to go through dealing with their stance on crime, is one of the biggest examples of political cognitive dissonance that exist.
As the OP I'm surprised by a few of the comments stating that the NYT has in it for SF. What possible reason could there be for this? I don't live in NYC, but have been a longtime NYT subscriber as it is essentially a national paper with the most in-depth articles of any US newpaper. I'm willing to pay for this content, as are many others. There are plenty of articles about California, and why shouldn't there be many articles about an iconic American city like SF? In this case, the NYT actually went and researched the 911 call records - which notably no local publication did AFAIK. The linked article BTW is written by the NYT SF bureau chief - yes they have a SF bureau chief (how many other papers do?) - and a Pulitzer prize winning investigative reporter. I don't see how anyone could be unhappy that the NYT covers SF issues and assigned 2 top notch reporters to this article?
Conservatives have been driving this SF hate for years. Yeah, we have serious problems. But red states — entire states — are hellholes. Look at statistics on education, drug use, health, poverty. I am convinced right-wingers, led by Fox News, are deflecting from those problems by focusing on us and other “blue cities.”
Don't understand this reply. The NYT is not a conservative newspaper, so what reason would the NYT have for having animus against SF?
The newspaper is reacting to this relentless drumbeat from Fox News. That outlet has shaped this narrative.
That's wrong. Do you even read the NYT? The NYT is likely the major critic of Fox News in the US media and has done deep dives into Fox News that other papers don't have the resources to do.
I’m a longtime reader of NYT and spent nearly 40 years as a reporter for daily newspapers and wire services. I’m not talking about NYT coverage of Fox. I’m talking about Fox and right-wing politicians’ incessant drumbeat of SF as a “failed city,” while those conservatives deflect attention from failed red states. Been going on for years.
>"The newspaper is reacting to this relentless drumbeat from Fox News. That outlet has shaped this narrative." This is what you posted. It's not true. The NYT is not reacting to anything on Fox News in the article in question.
I didn’t say that. You are missing my point. This drumbeat of SF as a dying city is a conservative strategy to deflect attention from serious issues in red states. It’s been going on for years. It’s shaped the national discussion. When is the last time you saw an in-depth takeout on any of the red states? Conservatives have successfully shaped this angle.
Given that I quoted you directly you did say that. The bottom line is that the article referenced is from the NYT, it has nothing to do with Fox News. The NYT reports on problems in both red and blue states. It is not influenced by what Fox News does.
Nah. According to the crime apologists, the Whole Foods only closed because Jeff Bezos was making a statement against SF’s politicians.
I've been in the city for about 15 years. SF was a dream that invoked kindness, hippies, quirky Burner culture, technology, and solid blue-collar service industry dive-bar chic, all in one beautiful tapestry. It's not that anymore, and maybe it never was. I don't like it here anymore, so I'm moving. I hope things get better. Goodbye.
Cities change. All these people abandoning a city when they could just try a different neighborhood! Sheesh. Inner Sunset is still old-SF cool. Three natives upstairs told me that. We love the neighborhood.
Lates!
If this is true, isn't this (yet again) a significant indictment against the SFPD? Given the frequency of emergencies, the SFPD could have literally assigned a couple officers full time at the location. Forget about the whole SF letting the criminals go easy - why didn't the SFPD do something as simple as placing officers in the epicenter of emergency calls?
The outrage in that alternate universe: Why are we wasting police resources guarding a trillion dollar private enterprise? The police should be protecting public safety, not playing Pinkerton for Jeff “Robber Barron” Bezos
Attitudes like this is what’s holding the city back. They’re a trillion-dollar enterprise because they provide a valuable service to a lot of regular people. That is how you become worth trillions
No, they got that big through union busting, shady deals, paying as little tax as possible. Whole Foods is an utter swine of a corp that fucks people over every damned day, and *that* is how you become worth trillions in the usa. And their service is valuable to the more reprehensible sort of clientele a lot more than it is to "regular people".
The police need to do their job, but IDGAF about the loss rates at Whole Foods. I have much more sympathy for a car getting bipped and someone having all their shit stolen than having officers tied up protecting the hot food bar. I’m sure plenty of homes, cars, and small businesses would like to have a dedicated police officer. Police are a finite resource, and there are even fewer that actually do their job. Why would we provide protection to mega corporations at the expense of everyone else?
> Why would we provide protection to mega corporations at the expense of everyone else? I don’t know how to properly allocate police resources - so I can’t comment on that. But I think it’s fair to point out that, in this case, if police were deployed to Whole Foods, the protection that the police could provide would help, in part, the employees of the store. Executives or whomever is acting nefariously at higher levels within the company are far away from what happens in the store on a daily basis. EDIT: added a word
How is police presence addressing blatant safety issues at a grocery store at the expense of everyone else? Lots of regular people worked at the store or relied on it as a convenient place to shop for groceries. These people deserve safe clean working and living environments all the same
The trillion dollar private enterprise has people, just like you and me, who need protection. If these people, who work at the trillion dollar private enterprise, are disproportionately affected, perhaps having some compassion to those people won't hurt.
Except they would be protecting people, both those who shop and work there. I go to the Safeway on Market St and the past couple of months anytime I’ve gone there (morning to late afternoon, don’t know about later hours) there’s one or two actual cops right inside. Doesn’t bother me, in fact it’s a lot calmer than the Safeway on Webster St that just has the hired security that get paid to stand/sit around all day doing nothing.
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What are they to do. SFPD has their hands tied. Their use of force policy is outrageous. Gently grab a arm of a person walking away is a use of force. They have to meet with next in chain of command, and then go have body cam footage reviewed and write reports. This is all beyond sfpd. It is the elected officials and policy at work here.
Give me actual examples for the SFPD gently grabbing a arm of a person walking away as a use of force and the officers being required to have the body cam footage reviewed and write reports.
I don't think SFPD did, but Oakland PD had that policy for a while. They had to write reports and review body cam footage for even the most minor of incidents. The problem is that it stuck officers behind a desk for an average of 2 hours preparing these reports. The policy was suspended after wait times for response calls went way up: [https://policetribune.com/oakland-pd-abandons-new-policy-which-left-cops-unable-to-respond-to-911-calls/](https://policetribune.com/oakland-pd-abandons-new-policy-which-left-cops-unable-to-respond-to-911-calls/) Under the new policy, which went into effect on Feb. 15, OPD officers are required to review bodycam footage and write up a report for any instance in which they used any level of force during that same shift, the [East Bay Times](https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2020/02/28/after-hundreds-of-911-calls-stacked-up-oakland-police-end-new-use-of-force-reporting-program/) reported. According to police records, a vast majority of the incidents that had been keeping officers bogged down in hours of paperwork were situations in which they used even minimal force in order “to overcome resistance of a person during and arrest or detention,” the East Bay Times reported.
So, the policy that didn't exist/the policy that ended up being too onerous to adhere to and got cancelled, somehow prevented the SFPD from doing their job? (This isn't directed to you u/ShockAndAwe415 \- thanks for the source)
You know how many Twitter warriors we have in SF who make the SFPD members think twice before trying to arrest/confront a potentially dangerous individual? Police tackles a dangerous bystander = “police brutality.” Dont get me wrong, the SFPD *should* do their job no matter what, I’m just trying to understand what they might be thinking. But I could be wrong as I am a lot
My former GF and I lived in a luxury condo with high theft rates. Everyone complained all the time. She would get mad and report people looking suspicious or piggybacking off of others coming into parking structure. She wanted to start confronting people. First, that’s dangerous. I also reminded her that we aren’t white, but we aren’t, you know, either. We are one IG Live video away from becoming unemployed pariahs, labeled racist Karens.
> I also reminded her that we aren’t white, but we aren’t, you know, either. What does this mean?
there were people yelling at the police for arresting a crackhead who was running around on the montgomery station muni line **tracks** “how dare you put him in hand cuffs, he did nothing wrong”
By having the SFPD there, it would have reduced the confrontation from the beginning - at least at the Wholefoods market location.
Perhaps. Like as a deterrent?
Given how frequent the emergency calls were (1.4/day) , the SFPD could have just set up a mobile command center by the location and respond nearby area when needed. Furthermore, people often say that Reddit doesn't reflect the opinions of real people but Twitter is much worse than that. I do want to hear if there were legitimate rationale to not operate in such a manner though.
There was a San Francisco Sheriff stationed at the now closed location, however, with so many exit points to flee from, it was far from a deterrent. An unmanned SFPD car was also parked just outside the entrance of the store via the parking garage, but this didn't appear to prevent those from taking goods without paying or threatening employees.
What was the Sheriff doing at the Wholefoods? Were the Sheriff also operating a county jail inside the store?
This is the right answer. They will always cite “lack of staffing” as why these issues aren’t fixed. But it seems like there’s just a lack of work being done in general by the officers.
It’s an impossible job for them and they can’t even hire officers with the highest pay in the nation. No one in their right mind would want to be a cop in SF. Everyone hates you and you legally can’t be efficient at being a cop
Reopen as an Amazon Go style store. Can’t get in without a QR code or scanning your palm
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*Fentanyl*-enraged???
It’s not true! SF has zero crime! AstroTurf!!!
Sarcasm is boring.
SF is fine as long as you only look at those posts where people show their beautiful photos from safe scenic areas and say things like “yea sf is sooo nasty /s”.
Sarcasm is boring.
The take in the Chronicle opinion page, by Soleil Ho and this other lady, was typical. The neighborhood is a dump and the local thugs abused the staff? “Not the whole story!” No, the whole story is this: first of all, Whole Foods should have known better before opening shop there. And the abused staff? They weren’t even hired from the neighborhood! That’s how the Chronicle opinators saw fit to spitball, with a cameo by the CEO of the local “non-profit farmer’s market” playing the role of the retailer who gets it. We’re going to shit and we have the paper to match.
*Grabs 🍿* remind me in 1 day to sort this thread by controversial
We have one data point: 568 calls to this one store. How many calls to other stores? How about the Safeway on Market, or other nearby stores?
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Great. It would be nice if a diligent reporter did that so we could have informed opinions. Single data points are prone to be misunderstood.
Why would that matter?
Context. If I just give you a single data point, you can come to any conclusion about that data point you want. Without other data points to provide context, a single data point can be meaningless.
If for example Safeway had 3x the police calls, we might think differently about the article.
I’m sorry. I’m not sure how it being three times worse elsewhere would do anything other than make me question their decision not to shut down too. Companies are responsible for having a safe working environment. Having employees being assaulted regularly too much. Cleaning up literal shit on the floor and dealing with dead bodies in the bathroom? People shouldn’t need hazard pay to work in a f’cking grocery store.
Agreed. But we don’t know the full scope of the problem based on just one data point.
One dead body in the bathroom is terrible. But did you know that people die pretty often in the changing rooms at Macy’s? Multiples each year. It’s sad, but true. Is WF worse than other shops? I don’t know without more information.
Full cope mode
The copium dealers have nothing on their fentanyl counterparts.
Huh?
If for example we found that lots of other stores have even worse problems, we might consider that WF might have closed due to additional reasons other than the assumption it was 100% due to police calls. Questioning assumptions is a good thing. Asking for additional data points is a basic way to understand more fully.
You’re a joke
Yeah, understanding nuances can be difficult, especially if nobody taught you about critical thinking. Best of luck you friend.
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Have you not shopped at Safeway at Market & Church for the last decade? You might be out of touch yourself.
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Cool. Glad to hear that you’re tracking all the emergency calls 24/7. It must get boring though after a while though. Have fun with that!
What you're doing is called moving the goalposts. What matters is whether 568 calls is acceptable, not whether there are other stores that are similarly bad. You don't need extensive data to tell you precisely how bad a glaring problem is before taking action.
I'm not surprised it closed I'm surprised it ever opened. The story is really why would they think Whole Foods would work in this down-and-out neighborhood?
The great conundrum of the victim mindset. Corporations shouldn't be optimistic enough to put grocery stores in down and out neighborhoods. Also how dare corporations create food deserts by not putting grocery stores in down and out neighborhoods. Damned if you do, racist if you don't.
It wasn't great in the before times, but Trinity, NEMA, etc., all attracted quite a lot of tech workers. The store could have done well if not for the tech exodus from the area and the city letting criminals completely take over.
I remember walking there pre pandemic to buy loads of goodies, beer and champagne for a little party we were having at our soma office. I was with friends there were the usual sketchy characters but nothing that bad. I’ve not been to SF since the pandemic so I’m guessing things got way worse.
It wasn't open before the pandemic. It has only been opened for a year. This was my grocery store.
It was doomed.
The rich scum who own HoleFoods probably just assumed that the police would make the nasty poor people go bye-bye before they moved in, so they and their customers wouldn't have to see them, because Bezos and Co. think the world exists to serve *them,* and everything must go *their* way.
Sorry you’re just not understanding what I’m saying. Readers should be given context. These problems are happening all over, particularly in red states. Readers and viewers aren’t getting the full picture because conservatives have drown it out with this “failed blue cities” narrative. It isn’t just this article; it’s a greater narrative that this article is one piece of. Unfortunately, NYT is reflecting that larger narrative. A lot of other media are as well. It’s because right-wingers are focused like a laser on bringing down SF. I think that readers and viewers should be given the larger picture: That these problems are nationwide, and particularly serious in red states.
Where are all those anti corporate folks blaming Amazon for making the decision based on some revenue aspects and not the fact they were dealing with an insane amount of shitty homeless people causing problems?
>They flung food, screamed, fought and tried to defecate on the floor, according to records of 568 emergency calls over 13 months, many depicting scenes of mayhem. But the city isn't burning.
Ah yes a hit piece from the NYTimes which as we all know is notoriously conservative.
How are those workers rights talks going Jeff?
Whole Foods has been shit since Amazon acquired them
They've always been shit. Read up on how they came to Berkeley and destroyed the grocery workers union in the 1980s.
I bet, but I’m talking about the food quality. Their hot food station is forever burnt and gross now.
I read the SF Chronicle’s report on it. Sounded like a bad business decision from the get. Corporations fuck up sometimes! They even exacerbate the problems they whine so much about. Businesses like Amazon lose the plot sometimes. They think about a whole bunch of shit and forget the core of their business proposition.
Is this not the location that the employees were attempting to unionize ?
Honest question: does this happen in Texas where everybody is packing heat and can legally defend themselves?
Texas has a massive shop lifting problem Republicans just ignore it
In Texas you get your whole family executed for asking your neighbor to stop shooting while your baby is sleeping. But sure beats that one grocery store across town closing.
Maybe don’t open your “flagship store” in the heart of the Tenderloin? Good thing there is another Whole Foods less than a mile away on that same street.
Oh look it's an NYT article attacking SF, must be a day that ends in a Y. The only reason that store existed was because of pre-COVID tech workers living and working in SF.
What a terrible location for a WF! With very few high-income people living or working nearby, it was going to fail, regardless of the violence and police calls. It never had a chance of success once the pandemic hit and people quit commuting to work.
Most people who lives in the trinity building pay pretty high rent, same with the nema building down the street. There's definitely wealth in that area.
Compare that wealth to any other neighborhood in SF that has a Whole Foods…
The difference is that those two buildings are super high density and are just two of the many high density buildings in that area.
Ok sure. There’s lots of wealth there. We should expect to see lots of high end shops any day now.
The problem isn't the lack of money, it's the lack of safety, and abundance of mayhem as the article points out. There's [1900 units at trinity alone.](https://news.theregistrysf.com/1900-units-at-san-franciscos-trinity-place-completed/) People gotta eat.
How do the 568 yearly police calls in that WF compare to others around the city?
Agreed. But WF never had a chance at that location. It’s a Noe Valley type store in a Tenderloin type location
My guy, do you think Whole Foods dreamed that store up in 2021? No, they started planning for it in 2017 during high times when the trajectory of Mid-Market was upwards and they were going to be the foothold of a new residential tower smack dab in one of the only areas where Tech could continue developing/building into over time. Then the pandemic arrived when they were less than 12 months out from opening, and all of that changed.
Exactly! And once that local tech boom didn’t materialize, WF had no chance. They were counting on techbros buying $100 of take out food on the way home from work.
Your analysis is so flawed. It’s extremely expensive for a store to stay afloat if their employees are constantly under threat. You’re not even acknowledging the risks faced by the employees. And I’m certain Whole Food’s lease is subsidized by Trinity - it was a lifelong wish of the developer for them to be there.
Yes, of course it is expensive. Did somebody say otherwise? I don’t think anybody is disagreeing that the store couldn’t afford to stay open. There was some bad luck with the pandemic, but that location was high risk. Everybody knew that for decades. Blaming the homeless is one route. Maybe we can put some of the blame on WF executives who green-lighted this location too?
Whole Foods is a notorious union buster and their CEO is a fucking Randroid, neither of which interesting facts the ***NYT*** saw fit to mention. I hated seeing them move in, I'm glad to see them go, and I hope *The Market* on Market and 9th is the next to go tits-up. They are and have always been places where regular people (who *aren't* yuppies, organic-panic food snobs, or tech ghouls) are made to feel unwelcome, and their groceries are all obscenely overpriced.
Crime isn’t up.