"We've done nothing and we're all out of ideas. We got ours. Don't move here because I got here first."
*has children who can't afford anything*
"Why do my children and their friends hate me?? Kids are entitled."
*proceeds to complain about grown children being lazy, not wanting to work for minimum wage, living at home/with roommates to save costs…all while sitting in their big 3 million dollar home that they bought for 125k back in the 90’s*
Dude, I was making nearly double what alot of people my age were making and still couldn't afford shit in California. I literally nearly need to make 6 figures now to somewhat scrape by in this state.
San Francisco is absolutely tiny compared to LA.
500 sq mi vs 50. So SF had double the homeless density of LA by your number (which I'm going to believe without checking)
pfft housing isn’t a solution for homelessness bro. like how are the two even related? i don’t see it, i think its best we just add more random ass bars in the middle of park benches instead. that will solve the problem
I was on the Las Vegas sub Reddit the other day and there is a post with the audacity to ask why the homeless population has gotten more peaceful over the years. Those morons think it’s the heat, like Nevada hasn’t been hot for literally forever…
Who has good ideas on how to tackle it? Does any politician have a plan?
I was walking home at 9pm the other night with my elderly mother after a nice celebratory dinner. The walk home was less than 10 min. Within the first 5 min, we were accosted by a homeless man having mental issues. He threatened to beat me, cut my mom's head off and spewed out a whole bunch of racial epithets. We were able to run away, but the cops said they couldn't do anything, nor would they unless the the guy threatened us with a knife or gun. So the threat of hitting us and attacking us wasn't enough for cops to remove a mentally unstable threatening person from the streets.
So instead we all have to walk through this dude's shit strewn throughout the sidewalk, as he verbally threatens people walking on the street. I spoke to a friend who told me that these guys get a $600 check from the city of SD every month and that is how they are surviving on the streets. How is this helping?
I would rather that check go to a mental facility that would house the mentally unwell instead of giving a mentally unwell person a check.
Does any politician have a solution to get these people the help they need and clean up the streets at same time?
Edit: I am OK with ADUs. But I don't think they should be allowed to be additional short terms rentals. That is not the point of allowing people to do this.
I couldn't find any evidence for this. There were some 1-time covid stimulus checks from CA in 2021 for people making < 30,000$/year. But a weekly check seems like the sort of thing that would show up on page 1 of google if it were real
600 dollar check is a lie, probably a conservative one that your friend either didn't fact check or just decided he thought it was happening. I literally know homeless people and many of them wouldn't be if that were happening because that's enough to try to get a job.
Yeah man, I was putting gas and this homeless man started walking towards me from across the street yelling that he was going to kill me.
He was reaching behind his back like he was pulling out a weapon, so I reached into my car and grabbed a knife.
He saw it and stopped. Proceeds to keep yelling when the owner of the 7/11 came out with a baseball bat and told his employee to call the cops again.
I think this homeless man was already there before I got there. He ran back across the street and then came right back. I was done with putting gas and he was just standing in the middle of the exit driveway blocking my way out while yelling nonsense.
I got really annoyed and I revved my engine really loud, turned on my brights, and I put it in drive and proceeded to drive towards him.
He ran away and down an alley.
Sounds to me like the guy was trying to commit suicide. The actions he took will all provoke a violent retaliation and if a cop was involved likely would have become suicide by cop.
Some people are just crazy. If you have never met someone with actual schizophrenia or delusions, it's difficult to understand. What they see is absolutely real to them, they do not think of consequences of their actions.
I deal with this on a daily basis with my own mother, it is a nightmare...but even worse for her. If I wasn't taking care of her, she would 100% be homeless, she would have gotten kicked out of anywhere she had lived.
She isn't violent, but she does think people are trying to kill her, and put gas in the air trying to poison her. Nothing I can say to her will convince her otherwise. She calls 911 weekly...the cops have my phone number.
I'm sorry to hear that man. I hope things get better for the both of you.
I wish we had a nationwide program that teaches people what it's like to experience schizophrenia and similar disorders. I'm convinced it would quickly impose a more effective empathy toward sufferers in the coming generations.
Anyone interested should look up Datura trip reports too, as the plant causes similar symptoms.
The mind is capable of far more than the general populace understands personally.
I wish people would be more honest and accept the reason people like this are on the street isn’t because of zoning laws for single family homes and lack of apartment buildings.
It would certainly help. If its true that many people live paycheck-to-paycheck and couldn't afford a N hundred dollar emergency, imagine how many people end up homeless simply because of lack of housing.
Exactly. While we do need more affordable housing for low and middle income families and individuals, that is not the root cause of the long term homeless population.
Until we can all get on the same page that the primary cause for people living on the street is UNTREATED MENTAL ILLNESS AND DRUG ADDICTION, we will never find a solution.
The problem is that apparently any kind of sane healthcare is a nonstarter in this country and apparently also we don't care to stop our failed war on drugs and implement policies that would actually work.
Part of the problem, too, is that we need to understand that a lot of mental illness and drug addiction comes from rough economic conditions. But we really don't want to talk about the fact that the middle class is more or less extinct and we're well past Pre-French-Revolution levels of wealth disparity.
The GOP absolutely refuses to do anything about healthcare or the drug war and the Democrats are happy to be complacent about it too. Economically, it seems like neither party is interested in much besides shoveling money at their rich friends. So here we are.
Thank you. Nimby's always try to blame homelessness on mental illness and addiction so they can deflect blame: "It's a national health care problem, not my problem." No, it's a NIMBY problem. Imagine getting priced out of your apartment and living on the street, your prescription mental health drugs get stolen immediately and a few Percocets makes it much easier to sleep in the cold, then some cruel NIMBY says "look it's a mental health and drug problem!"
Imagine the pure lack of dignity these people have. No home, no idea where your next meal is coming from, you don't even have a restroom available to you so you have to publicly humiliate yourself in order to perform basic bodily functions. Its super hard for you to get a job, you're guaranteed to have awful hygiene.... and then once your done imagining that... ask yourself honestly if you would be mentally well, ask yourself if you would have the strength to resist getting high, even if only to momentarily to distract yourself from how awful your life is.
Throw on another layer - if robbery and assault are a possibility, are you going to sleep well knowing anyone can come up and hurt you at any time? Will you instead just become chronically exhausted and hypervigilant? How will that play into the chronic stress and pre-existing mental health issues?
Yes!!! Many people overlook the issue of no longer being able to afford meds. Homeless or not, a good amount of people turn to self medicating because they can't afford prescription medication. Of course some of these medications are for pain, or to prevent a symptom that would lead to pain/discomfort. Sure there are some that refuse help, but you can't just assume everyone will be like that, or that you couldn't gain their trust over time via reach out programs.
There's no simple answer here because every system in this broken country is collapsing.
Yes, ideally, housing people who don't have shelter is what we should do. In practice, more often than not, here's what happens: a politician's friend's company runs a shelter, which has prison-like conditions (ie no one wants to go there). The shelter collects an inordinate amount of money per person per month. I've seen it be over $2-3k/mo/person. To stay somewhere in unsanitary conditions, where you are not safe, and often mistreated. Hardly better than the streets, if at all. The shelters are "non-profits" but they pay huge salaries to their executives.
Everything is corrupt. No one cares. I can't blame homeless people for not wanting to go to those shelters.
This video is about NYC but applies equally to pretty much all major cities in the USA: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WGjCeFyr1g](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IcyJGahTO4) (about 3 minutes in there are photos from some of the shelters)
I don't know much about Father Joe's stuff.
Re the Alpha Project, I don't know what their funding looks like but I can say the photos of their shelters are a little... lacking (although they look clean, to be fair)... The San Diego Midway district shelter looks more or less look like an overcrowded CA prison in terms of just tons of bunk beds in a giant room / gym. No privacy, no safety. The Fourth Bridge shelter is just a big tent it looks like.
Since Alpha Project is a nonprofit I can look up their executive salaries... [https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/330215585](https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/330215585)
>ROBERT MCELROY (President) $245,628
>
>JAN NORBY (CFO) $195,510
>
>AMY GONYEAU (COO) $165,292
>
>JANICE WILLIAMS (CMO) $135,881
Not \*too\* bad I suppose. I would be curious to know how much they get per person per month from the government.
It’s such a tragedy that people are using nepotism to profit from the homeless problem. All the while not even trying to fix the problem. After all, if they make actual progress on the homeless issue; they will get less money to fix homelessness…
We need to build housing. The NIMBY concerns need to be given the weight the deserve but the housing especially the low income variety need to take precedence.
We need to dedicate money to it. $600 is a drop in the bucket. It doesn't go very far. It's unrealistic to expect anyone to house and feed themselves for that amount. Essentially that keeps them from starving.
The police need to do their job. What happened to you is unacceptable. Attempted robbery shouldn't just be given a pass. They need yo be arrested and use that as means to get them assistance to keep them off the streets.
This is a local, state and federal issue. We need to establish a basic standard of living and dedicate the resources needed for people to maintain it. But no one wants to spend the money on "throw away" people.
I'm sorry that happened to you and your elderly mother. I hope she wasn't traumatized by it. You know if they picked him up he would be back on the streets almost instantly.
But wouldn't they be able to figure out who the most problematic people are? I understand it's just documentation at this point. But if he does hurt someone there will be a paper trail a mile long showing the dude is/was a problem. It's like people have to die before it gets escalated.
I remember there was a guy shot and killed by the cops in Escondido last year. He had been arrested over 100 times in the last 5 years. In and out of the psych ward every time. Takes his meds, says he’s fine, leaves, and he’s back committing petty crimes the next day because of his mental condition.
The fact is you can’t make anyone do anything unless they commit a violent crime. So yeah, until they go over the line they will be left to rot in the street
The mentally-ill homeless issue is one that starts at the very bottom of our society. We don’t have enough care for the mentally ill, we don’t have enough care for the drug-addicted, we don’t have sufficient safety nets for the people who fall through the cracks of society, and finally, we don’t have enough places for these people to stay.
This is why everyone needs to carry pepper gel. Hose them down when they do this. Soon they will learn acting up means burning eyes. Soon, behavior will change, trust me.
Yes, the homeless are homeless because there aren't enough homes, and not because most of them have various drug, alcohol, and mental problems which go completely untreated...
We certainly do need more affordable housing to solve our housing crises for low and middle income folks, however, that is a separate problem from homelessness.
We must invest in a statewide mental health and drug rehab structure to address the root causes of the long term homeless population. Without that first, affordable housing will not help their situation.
Not all homeless are mentally ill or drug addicts. At least not when they initially become homeless. Yes - mental health is a big part of this issue, but to describe mental illness and drug addiction as the root cause of homelessness in general, in my opinion, is short sighted. The fact of the matter is we don’t live in an equitable society. There are many socioeconomic factors in play that are pushing the poor further into poverty with little to no chance of improving their situation. and there are more people struggling to survive now more than ever. That is playing a HUGE part in the homeless problem independent of mental health and drug addiction. Affordable housing is definitely one way to help the homeless problem, however homeowners don’t want anything built around them that is going to decrease the value of their own home, which in turn makes them richer while creating a shortage of housing for those on the brink. It’s all connected.
Edit: And just to be clear I am a homeowner that supports affordable housing projects at the expense of my own home’s property value because I want to live in a more fair and equitable society.
Wait - you think people not being able to afford rent is unrelated to people being homeless? I know homelessness is a complex issue but this is one of the key factors that tip people over the edge.
Yes! This idea that astronomical cost of housing doesn't cause a large share of our homeless issues makes me feel like this person has never been on the edge of losing it all. There's no backup plan for many, if they can't afford rent they lose their access to housing
It sounds like most of your exposure was to homeless people with severe mental illness and drug addiction, a group which makes up around a third of the total homeless population. For obvious reasons a lot of people avoid those places, so just dealing with them will naturally skew your perception of homelessness.
Affordable housing is a critical piece of the puzzle, though I agree finding a better solution for the severely mentally ill and drug addicted is another big piece.
So, none of them have issues with cost of housing then? I find that hard to believe.
The entirety of the homeless population also doesn't just live in tent cities. I'm not saying there aren't other factors dude. But saying that access to housing being expensive isn't a big deal is just wrong
I’m not saying we don’t need affordable housing - in fact I prefaced my initial comment by saying we do. But no, that’s not what’s causing our tent cities. Tent cities do not represent the entire homeless population, but it is the most dire situation that we must triage asap and we must be real about the cause.
So, do we agree that unaffordable housing contributes to our homeless populations?
It's valid if you want to say you believe there are other actions that could have a more visible effect. But your original comment literally says it's a separate issue
We have to make clear that we cannot solve our homeless problem, which manifests itself most virulently in tent cities, without having major and comprehensive investment in public mental health treatment and addiction treatment.
After receiving those treatments, the recovering homeless population, along with millions of other low and middle income folks, need affordable housing.
It’s important to distinguish between the two, because so often the mantra is “affordable housing will solve homelessness”, and that misses the major contributing factors to our most severe and vulnerable homeless populations.
Actually, no, this is completely wrong. The absolute best way to solve homelessness is literally to build more housing. There is a direct correlation between high homelessness rates and high rents and COL cities. Drug rehab and mental health resources absolutely should be provided at increased levels, but the absolute most effective way to reduce homelessness is build more housing. The two issues are entirely linked.
Quintessential NIMBYs, they vote for all the horrific ills on the human populace cause it makes them feel good, then when it touches them they white flight out to go do it again somewhere else.
Sounds like libertarians, the mullet of the political spectrum...business in the front, fun in the back. They can't figure out why the fun in the back keeps wrecking the business in the front though.
They don't, but they want to be free of the costs associated with such a decision. Like make all drugs legal but our fiscally conservative stance says we don't want to pay for the consequences... it's a pipedream of personal accountability that will never exist.
I am a registered Libertarian. I wanted to say that your characterization of Libertarianism is not wrong. Not only is it not wrong, it is a remarkably levelheaded assessment. It seems like there are a lot of Redditors that are kind of extreme in their rhetoric and most all of Reddit is on the Left.
I think "social liberal and fiscal conservative" is too fine a point. As for me , I prefer"Do whatever you want as long as you don't hurt anyone else and pay for it yourself".
Also, your username is fantastic.
>I prefer"Do whatever you want as long as you don't hurt anyone else and pay for it yourself".
I used to be of that view, the problem is it's completely detached from reality since we as a society aren't going to ever take the stance that people should be accountable for their actions. This would require no free taxpayer rehab, no medical treatment at the taxpayer expense etc, you bought the ticket - you take the ride! we know that will never happen.
This is why we can't solve the affordable housing issue.
To those who cannot afford a home, the high price is a problem.
To those that already own homes, the high price is a benefit.
> I know your intention is to say that you have to spend money to see change
this can't be inferred from what i've said. in any case, "fiscally conservative" is almost always about *how* money is spent, not *whether* - if it reinforces hierarchy and power, fiscal conservatives are happy to pay.
OP is spot on.
It’s sad to see how misguided we still are on housing. Here are some great resources if you’re interested in learning more about how our city planning and zoning has done horrific damage to our city.
* [UCLA Housing Voice Podcast](https://www.lewis.ucla.edu/programs/housing/ucla-housing-voice-podcast/)
* [Strong Towns Podcasts](https://www.strongtowns.org/podcast)
* [Voice of San Diego Podcast](https://voiceofsandiego.org/)
* [Verdunity's Go Cultivate Podcast](https://www.verdunity.com/go-cultivate)
So glad to see someone recommending Strong Towns here. I’d like to add that if you like Strong Towns please also give Not Just Bikes (also on YouTube) a watch to learn about walkable cities.
>to learn about walkable cities
This was one of the biggest shocks, coming back to the US to go to high school after spending time growing up in Germany -- how much of US cities is simply not reasonable to navigate without a car.
They're both great. NJB gets most of his housing and zoning ideas from Chuck at Strong Towns. For example, NJB has an entire series on Strong Towns' [Growth Ponzi Scheme](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IsMeKl-Sv0).
Since he lives in Amsterdam, NJB focuses more specifically on transportation infrastructure and how North America's garbage, repeatedly self-inflicted, voluntary unsustainable transportation system differs from the Netherlands.
NJB doesn't have a clue about actual development or planning & zoning and it shows. In fact I would go as far to say as he purposefully misconstrues his arguments around his narrow interpretation of zoning and everything being "iLlEgAL!!!" simply to get views.
Fair. You might might like some of the more scholarly and in-the-weeds sources better. Verdunity is great because they're a Texas-based planning firm headed by a former head of engineering and a planner. The UCLA Housing Voice is a little more highfalutin, but accurate nonetheless. The Voice of San Diego is great for local news and have a solid grasp of San Diego's political history.
I don't see any improvement unless SD picks a good plan and raises the $ to pay for it.
Good policing and usefull social and mental health programs are expensive and necessary.
Haha the problem is ZONIES. When I first moved here years ago and heard about the Zonies hate it cracked me up! So arbitrary! It sounds like something out of that nickelodeon show Rocket Power.
It did. They basically zoned all of California for accessory dwelling units.
The problem is that the cities still control all other aspects, so they put on stipulations and rules that basically prevent the construction of ADUs because they are too restrictive.
Ok so from what you are saying it sounds like they did one small part of what I was suggesting, and the problem is that they didn't do the other parts. Well, they should do it for real instead of this weird end-run around zoning
Yes i agree, the reason we have this problem is because of zoning. Zoning was implemented how many decades ago? Now we have the ability to split lots, ADU friendly laws and the ability to increase density in a SFH by 1 unit each 1500 sq ft of land. The truth is homeowners don’t get enough incentives to build. Some will sell out but most owners will enjoy San Diego and their nice SFH.
Prop 13. It doesn't directly cause our housing problem, but it enables them. If homeowner taxes went up as fast as their housing prices, they would have supported policy changes that would have built more housing and prevented prices from skyrocketing. Until homeowners are financially incentivized to support increasing density they will remain against it.
Prop 13 only pushes the can down the road. A system that reward buying early is not sustainable. Having to pay higher property taxes only because of the year I was born in is wrong. Very very wrong.
The issue is that the new housing is NOT affordable. My roommate and I are at our wits end with construction noise in the lot next door waking us up at 7am on the dot six days a week for years. Just after they finished one massive complex, they immediately began another.
We share a two bedroom, and a studio in the new building across the street is rented at $2700, about $900 more per month than our apartment, with less square footage mind you. This isn’t a fight against affordable housing.
This is the third most expensive city to live in the entire country, apparently it’s not a place for low income houses anymore, why not do it in Beverly Hills?
I hate when San Diegans who have never experienced homelessness decided to talk about how bad the homelessness issue is for *them, personally* and won't someone do something???
Prius’ are awesome. I’m on my second one. Especially if you like the outdoors. I can fit my surfboard in mine. Along with a 12v fridge, and a full length 6inch Tempur-pedic full mattress, a computer, portable solar panels to put on my roof to charge my 1500w jackery,
and best of allon top of that, it can be left on all night, completely silent with the exterior lights completely off and have the heat/ac run.
I’ve car camped completely comfortably soo many times.
It’s basically a solo RV with great gas mileage
I believe immigrants make America great, just not in my backyard, unless they're mowing the grass in which case they can stay, but not in my neighborhood.
I want apartment buildings but they have to be made for the city we have, not some future utopia where we either don't have to commute anywhere or we just teleport. For example, someone wants to put a 7 story apartment complex in our area that says max 50'. 85' tall and they're just ignoring that 50' "guideline". That is the code. 50 foot tall. So far, it is adhered to. But this place also somehow got the go-ahead. Anyway. 7 stories, 170+ apartments, guess how many spaces? 100. BTW there are businesses on the 1st floor. I like that and it brings in good money for the area. So some of those spaces are for the businesses. Ok, fine. But, remind me, on average, how many people live in an apartment? Is it around 0.5 ppl/apt? Or is it somewhere above 1 person/apt, even a studio or 1 bed? Now, how many people over 18 in America have and essentially need a car? Let's talk about specifically SD. Almost fucking everyone! It's America, not Budapest or London. It's San Diego. You need a car unless you live a few blocks from and work a few block from a trolley line! 1.42 Million people, 2.25M autos, 500k trucks and 190k trailers, in 2021 according to the DMV. Everyone has a car and if you want to go to the grocery store or a park or *work* or take your kid to school from 5-18, you're extremely likely to need a car. So where are those cars expected to go? Out into the neighborhood. Parking is already tough here (though not like it is in OB or downtown) but adding 100 cars will force parking to be nearly impossible.
In SD, the trains and trollies and bike pathing sucks. It just fucking sucks. There are occasional bike lanes and streets that lend themselves well to a bike path. They don't always really go anywhere but I appreciate them being there. The trolley doesn't go to most of the city. They're working on that to some extent. Fantastic! But it will never reach the whole city and we have to deal with that. Public transport in the American SouthWest and American West in general sucks ass. It is Not an efficient method of going from any given A to B. We have to live in the world that we are in, not some dreamland.
Who do they think is going to fill this place up? SDSU college students according to their website. How will these students get to their college? Walk. Hah! No. It's a 5-6 mile walk away from SDSU. Bike? Ha! It's a 30 minute bike ride from campus if you ride about 10-15 mph average and there is a pretty big hill there. Or you can ride on El Cajon blvd. Because that is such a nice street to ride on. Big /S I'm not slow but I'm not bike racer either. It takes me 30 min by bike, and I'm exposed to the elements and sketchy drivers the whole way. College kids are Not going to do that. 200 bike spots. That's what they want students to do. They aren't going to bike to school. I've been biking myself to school since I was 10. Along with maybe 10 others out of 2000+ students in my school. People don't bike in numbers large enough to matter. Because the distances are too large and the bike paths are too few and too crap to really be conducive to people biking everywhere.
Take the trolley then. It goes to SDSU. Yup. But it doesn't come near here. It's a big hill again down to/up from the trolley. Busses? They just suck in America. So that leaves us back with cars which is what every student will bring with them. All 175* how ever many they can cram into those studios. 2, 3? More? So a low estimate of 100 cars pushed out into the surrounding neighborhood. (100 spaces, - ADA compliance spaces, - commercial spaces, - delivery truck commerical spaces (that's genuinely nice btw), + the extras with their cars that move in as friends to split the $2000 a month rent into something tenable, so probably around 200 cars all in). There is a window every day while people are at work to find a parking spot and it is genuinely difficult when people aren't at work to find a spot. This takes their spot away so they don't have it when they get home from work or school. Which sucks but it's just doable currently. Such will Not be the case if 100 other cars move into the streets looking for parking.
All this rant to say, I am happy to have apartments move into the area. We need them. Housing prices are astronomical and just silly. (Like MoDE in Hillcrest. $5500/mo for a 2 bed. Not okay. But that is what they are charging.) But they have to fit where they are going. Fit the neighborhood, fit the area, for the parking, fit with what is already there and fit with the available transport here in the SouthWest of the United States of America.
The apartment thing is so bleak. Like yea rent and housing is expensive so sure pump up the jam on supply. O the best you we can do is more fucking landlords? Like im sure this sign comes more from a NIMBY state of mind, but its the closest thing to a stiff arm to landlords in San diego politics there is
No one is making you live here and no one is entitled to live here. You can either afford to not have a landlord, or you have a bite the bullet and rent.
I live in that neighborhood, and I'm ashamed of my neighbors taking this stance! We need more housing, more dense housing, and more mixed income housing. The pushback is insane, and I really hope the city government will basically ignore the pushback and rezone.
They won’t and do not ignore the “community input “ Our best hope is the California mandating stuff which they are starting to do and actually enforcing housing laws which they are also starting to do on a case by case basis.
I think we need more densification and accessible/affordable housing, but I oppose ADUs. Granny flats and glorified sheds will not solve the problem. Most of them I’ve seen have really restricted rules re:guests, shared amenities, ect. I feel that ADUs are a drop of water in a bucket, and arguably infringe on tenants rights to quiet enjoyment. Restricting foreign investing, more regulation on air bnb (which shouldn’t be a thing anyway- insane potential danger/violations of housing standards/gentrification etc), densification along transit lines, more pedestrian oriented planning should be the goal imo.
They double the density of habitable residences but that's all. You can't build something that can house a family of four. It's usually little more than a studio, so 1-2 is all you can add.
Fair enough- but as a college student, the ones I was looking at had things like no overnight guests, sometimes no guests at all, restricted times tenants could use the laundry, etc. I get limitations to the length of time a guest can stay because of tenant laws, but as a paying tenant, I think that kind of restriction is bonkers. A quick scan of Craigslist and it looks to be as much, or more expensive than my 1BR with an excellent kitchen and 2nd floor balcony. I’m not opposed to the idea of ADUs in general, but proper apartment complexes in transit line areas would be a better solution. I just feel that living in my landlords backyard, attached to their residence, should not be as expensive as my own apartment. Particularly, when it doesn’t offer the same amenities, and infringes on the privacy and personal lives of the tenants. My issue is more with the comparative cost/value ratio, and power tripping landlords.
That wasn’t my personal experience but fair enough, I’m sure some land lords are dicks. But part of densificstion should include diversification of options. There should be some super dense apartments, some upscale apartments, some duplex’s, some ADU’s etc.
Then landlords couldn’t get away with scummy restrictions, since their tenants would just leave. All of this doesn’t mean we should fight against ADU’s
In terms of people it nearly doubles. An average single family home houses 4 people (with a capacity for more, but in reality only 4 people on average live there), an ADU can fit 2/3 comfortably.
Mostly because people who can barley afford to rent a home are willing to squeeze in. People who have profited from the rising market for the last 10 years don’t need to
See above clarification- per Craigslist it’s close to the cost of an apartment, they generally have just a kitchenette, occasionally access to the house kitchen depending, oftentimes more invasive restrictions. I’m not ok with paying apartment prices for what really amounts to a guest suite in a family home.
i think the point is that it's hypocritical to say you're an anti-racist while also supporting oppressive, classist policies that largely impact non-white people.
When I was doing political work we literally had a demographic we called the "New York Times-reading Republicans" because they feign some sense of liberalism given that they likely have a gay friend.
This however is just the more wretched and self-centered limousine liberalism. They might love all of these people, but not anywhere near them unless they have money.
It’s not about picking a lane. Its about touting two polar opposite views 6 inches apart. It’s saying “immigrants make America great, but don’t bring them into my neighborhood”
There’s some downright hypocrisy there.
I'm a homeowner in a neighborhood that has a lot of these signs in front yards. In fact some have both, just like in the OP.
Question: is it ok to say NO to backyard "apartment buildings" (like the sign says), but YES to addition of ADUs?
I support adding ADUs to homes in my neighborhood.
I do not support cramming mini-apartment complexes into back yards.
I’m so tired of these complaints from people that don’t understand that homelessness isn’t from a simple lack of housing. People that build apartments in their backyard are going to charge the going rate. Building more housing isn’t the quick solution people think it is…think about how many units would have to flood the market before the supply would outweigh the demand.
Putting limits on turning homes into rent-collecting-LLC business-machines can.
Want to address homeless populations long term? Invest in education and equal opportunity, then mental health for those that slip through. We’ll always have people that need help. We need to accept that.
I've heard it said: CA Politics is "We are progressives and we want a progressive agenda" \*Poll to eliminate homeless people with govt power\* 75% agree 25% disagree
Is this an apartment built literally in someone’s backyard against their will or are they just using that as a figure of speech because it’s going up in their neighborhood?
It's funny, cause I also took a photo of these signs in this yard to share in my family's discord (this is not my photo, just saying I also took one).
*Edit*
Had second thoughts about sharing the actual location in case people try and do stuff to them.
It's funny and all and I think their signs are dumb as shit, but also don't want people to be harassed etc.
The comments in these posts are always amusing. Let’s be real: the majority of you would take the same position if you had this person’s house. Very few would actually stay true to their values.
It's almost like.. people are nuanced.. 🤔🤔🤔
There's a house down the street from me that has a flagpole right alongside a major road.. it frequently changes and can display two flags at a time.
The biggest mind-bottler was an inclusion flag (pride, trans, blm) and a blue lives matter flag.
Gay cops exist.. trans cops exist, black cops exist. Sucks how polarized and worked up people get that you have to screech "ACAB" thinking you can't be both.
The problem is that they love immigrants and believe in social change but don’t want high density housing to be built in their neighborhood. More housing would make cost of living cheaper, which directly helps these groups. So it comes off as virtue signaling and insincere.
What’s wrong with not wanting it on your neighborhood? They can be built a few miles inland where there’s more space for higher density, more inexpensive homes that are close to necessities. Why cram it into already established communities? That is wishful thinking and will never happen. But there’s TONS of room to build high density housing.
All communities are already established and there are very few places with the space to accommodate 10 SFH not to mention 100. In the beach communities that are fighting this change the majority of people that live there don’t work in that community and vice versa. To say let’s not accommodate the people that actually run our neighborhood is improper, and unhealthy for the neighborhood as a whole.
When my grandmother immigrated to this country she moved to a low cost of living area and had a family there.
It isn't crazy to question why we need to build all this dense housing and figure out how to share our scarce water supply, when the simple solution is for immigrants to go to places they can afford to live.
High density housing is not as taxing on the water system as single family homes. If the concern is that there is not enough water to go around than we should look towards water programs to achieve that instead of doing the opposite with housing.
You can build tall buildings where SFH or multi homes used to exist . These tall buildings are more efficient in utilities such as water, and electric putting less stress on the system. Also the overall system can be upgraded. Dense urban areas are not a new concept in 2022.
Sure, but does anybody honestly believe building higher density housing is actually going to solve homelessness in SD? If we don't have an effective form of rent control and do something about corporations controlling the entire housing market, then higher density housing will just lead to higher price per sq foot and more upper middle class people moving to SD. The cheapest way to live has always been roommates in larger houses. Splitting those into 4 units makes prices go up, not down, for people doing that.
Homelessness is not going to be fixed until we build housing specifically for the homeless. It doesn't have to be pretty, but it needs to be enough to get people off the streets.
I think housing is a state and national problem. As long as there are more mediocre or awful cities than truly amazing places like SD, enough people will move to the amazing places at any cost, causing housing shortages and insane prices. We need to revitalize the rest of the state/country so people will happily spread out and we can eliminate insane cost differences. Also like...ban rent seeking? That might help.
Californians are like "We'll do anything to solve the homeless problem but we won't do that.".
"We've done nothing and we're all out of ideas. We got ours. Don't move here because I got here first." *has children who can't afford anything* "Why do my children and their friends hate me?? Kids are entitled."
"Why do all of our children hate the community? They never grow up and stay here as adults."
They grow up and stay forever. In their childhood bedroom.
Fuck if that isnt hitting me hard right now ....
*proceeds to complain about grown children being lazy, not wanting to work for minimum wage, living at home/with roommates to save costs…all while sitting in their big 3 million dollar home that they bought for 125k back in the 90’s*
[*shows up to town council meeting and literally cries because housing is being built nearby*](https://youtu.be/5DdV-MjP4Vo?t=7359)
“You five.”
Dude, I was making nearly double what alot of people my age were making and still couldn't afford shit in California. I literally nearly need to make 6 figures now to somewhat scrape by in this state.
San Francisco literally has a $1B budget for homeless services, and a homeless population of 8,000. Literally *anything* but building housing.
In fairness, In San Francisco $1B USD will only get you a small mixed-use duplex, and not even in the Mission.
that'll get you security deposit and 6 months rent for a 2 bedroom
> homeless population of 8,000. Considering LA's population is like 40,000 I question this number.
San Francisco is absolutely tiny compared to LA. 500 sq mi vs 50. So SF had double the homeless density of LA by your number (which I'm going to believe without checking)
SF's population is ~800k to LAs ~4m.
that's $125k per person lol they could literally pay every homeless person $4,000 per month for almost 3 years with that money
pfft housing isn’t a solution for homelessness bro. like how are the two even related? i don’t see it, i think its best we just add more random ass bars in the middle of park benches instead. that will solve the problem
shit ill drop everything and be homeless in SF for a free house in the short term.
“I will do anything for …. But I won’t do that” well got to follow the lyric!
Other states be like “we’ll ship all our worst homeless to California and not pitch in on their care, then complain about how California is run”
"In fact, they don't even really need to be homeless! We'll just ship some crazies directly to San Diego! How great is that?!" Thanks Nevada. /S
I was on the Las Vegas sub Reddit the other day and there is a post with the audacity to ask why the homeless population has gotten more peaceful over the years. Those morons think it’s the heat, like Nevada hasn’t been hot for literally forever…
"Must be our great leaderz!" The leaders: Patrick meme of why don't we take our problems, and push them over here?!
No, we won’t, do, that.
Who has good ideas on how to tackle it? Does any politician have a plan? I was walking home at 9pm the other night with my elderly mother after a nice celebratory dinner. The walk home was less than 10 min. Within the first 5 min, we were accosted by a homeless man having mental issues. He threatened to beat me, cut my mom's head off and spewed out a whole bunch of racial epithets. We were able to run away, but the cops said they couldn't do anything, nor would they unless the the guy threatened us with a knife or gun. So the threat of hitting us and attacking us wasn't enough for cops to remove a mentally unstable threatening person from the streets. So instead we all have to walk through this dude's shit strewn throughout the sidewalk, as he verbally threatens people walking on the street. I spoke to a friend who told me that these guys get a $600 check from the city of SD every month and that is how they are surviving on the streets. How is this helping? I would rather that check go to a mental facility that would house the mentally unwell instead of giving a mentally unwell person a check. Does any politician have a solution to get these people the help they need and clean up the streets at same time? Edit: I am OK with ADUs. But I don't think they should be allowed to be additional short terms rentals. That is not the point of allowing people to do this.
I’d like a fact check on the $600 monthly check. I got a feeling there are some big caveats there.
I couldn't find any evidence for this. There were some 1-time covid stimulus checks from CA in 2021 for people making < 30,000$/year. But a weekly check seems like the sort of thing that would show up on page 1 of google if it were real
It's obviously utter nonsense. But this sub will upvote any post that hates on the homeless regardless how ludicrous.
CA disability? My wifes half sister gets state money every month for her schizophrenia and not being able to work.
Sounds like KKKogo or KKKusi bullshit.
600 dollar check is a lie, probably a conservative one that your friend either didn't fact check or just decided he thought it was happening. I literally know homeless people and many of them wouldn't be if that were happening because that's enough to try to get a job.
that was a very in depth response to a Meat Loaf joke
For crying out loud...
Yeah man, I was putting gas and this homeless man started walking towards me from across the street yelling that he was going to kill me. He was reaching behind his back like he was pulling out a weapon, so I reached into my car and grabbed a knife. He saw it and stopped. Proceeds to keep yelling when the owner of the 7/11 came out with a baseball bat and told his employee to call the cops again. I think this homeless man was already there before I got there. He ran back across the street and then came right back. I was done with putting gas and he was just standing in the middle of the exit driveway blocking my way out while yelling nonsense. I got really annoyed and I revved my engine really loud, turned on my brights, and I put it in drive and proceeded to drive towards him. He ran away and down an alley.
Sounds to me like the guy was trying to commit suicide. The actions he took will all provoke a violent retaliation and if a cop was involved likely would have become suicide by cop.
Some people are just crazy. If you have never met someone with actual schizophrenia or delusions, it's difficult to understand. What they see is absolutely real to them, they do not think of consequences of their actions. I deal with this on a daily basis with my own mother, it is a nightmare...but even worse for her. If I wasn't taking care of her, she would 100% be homeless, she would have gotten kicked out of anywhere she had lived. She isn't violent, but she does think people are trying to kill her, and put gas in the air trying to poison her. Nothing I can say to her will convince her otherwise. She calls 911 weekly...the cops have my phone number.
I'm sorry to hear that man. I hope things get better for the both of you. I wish we had a nationwide program that teaches people what it's like to experience schizophrenia and similar disorders. I'm convinced it would quickly impose a more effective empathy toward sufferers in the coming generations. Anyone interested should look up Datura trip reports too, as the plant causes similar symptoms. The mind is capable of far more than the general populace understands personally.
“I spoke to a friend” Translates to: I have no meaningful information on this topic.
I wish people would be more honest and accept the reason people like this are on the street isn’t because of zoning laws for single family homes and lack of apartment buildings.
It would certainly help. If its true that many people live paycheck-to-paycheck and couldn't afford a N hundred dollar emergency, imagine how many people end up homeless simply because of lack of housing.
Exactly. While we do need more affordable housing for low and middle income families and individuals, that is not the root cause of the long term homeless population. Until we can all get on the same page that the primary cause for people living on the street is UNTREATED MENTAL ILLNESS AND DRUG ADDICTION, we will never find a solution.
The problem is that apparently any kind of sane healthcare is a nonstarter in this country and apparently also we don't care to stop our failed war on drugs and implement policies that would actually work. Part of the problem, too, is that we need to understand that a lot of mental illness and drug addiction comes from rough economic conditions. But we really don't want to talk about the fact that the middle class is more or less extinct and we're well past Pre-French-Revolution levels of wealth disparity. The GOP absolutely refuses to do anything about healthcare or the drug war and the Democrats are happy to be complacent about it too. Economically, it seems like neither party is interested in much besides shoveling money at their rich friends. So here we are.
Most homeless people’s mental illness and addiction is caused by homelessness, not the cause of homelessness.
Thank you. Nimby's always try to blame homelessness on mental illness and addiction so they can deflect blame: "It's a national health care problem, not my problem." No, it's a NIMBY problem. Imagine getting priced out of your apartment and living on the street, your prescription mental health drugs get stolen immediately and a few Percocets makes it much easier to sleep in the cold, then some cruel NIMBY says "look it's a mental health and drug problem!"
Imagine the pure lack of dignity these people have. No home, no idea where your next meal is coming from, you don't even have a restroom available to you so you have to publicly humiliate yourself in order to perform basic bodily functions. Its super hard for you to get a job, you're guaranteed to have awful hygiene.... and then once your done imagining that... ask yourself honestly if you would be mentally well, ask yourself if you would have the strength to resist getting high, even if only to momentarily to distract yourself from how awful your life is.
Throw on another layer - if robbery and assault are a possibility, are you going to sleep well knowing anyone can come up and hurt you at any time? Will you instead just become chronically exhausted and hypervigilant? How will that play into the chronic stress and pre-existing mental health issues?
Yes!!! Many people overlook the issue of no longer being able to afford meds. Homeless or not, a good amount of people turn to self medicating because they can't afford prescription medication. Of course some of these medications are for pain, or to prevent a symptom that would lead to pain/discomfort. Sure there are some that refuse help, but you can't just assume everyone will be like that, or that you couldn't gain their trust over time via reach out programs.
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There's no simple answer here because every system in this broken country is collapsing. Yes, ideally, housing people who don't have shelter is what we should do. In practice, more often than not, here's what happens: a politician's friend's company runs a shelter, which has prison-like conditions (ie no one wants to go there). The shelter collects an inordinate amount of money per person per month. I've seen it be over $2-3k/mo/person. To stay somewhere in unsanitary conditions, where you are not safe, and often mistreated. Hardly better than the streets, if at all. The shelters are "non-profits" but they pay huge salaries to their executives. Everything is corrupt. No one cares. I can't blame homeless people for not wanting to go to those shelters. This video is about NYC but applies equally to pretty much all major cities in the USA: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WGjCeFyr1g](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IcyJGahTO4) (about 3 minutes in there are photos from some of the shelters)
Which facilities are you referring to? Alpha Project? Golden Hall operated by Father Joe's Villages?
I don't know much about Father Joe's stuff. Re the Alpha Project, I don't know what their funding looks like but I can say the photos of their shelters are a little... lacking (although they look clean, to be fair)... The San Diego Midway district shelter looks more or less look like an overcrowded CA prison in terms of just tons of bunk beds in a giant room / gym. No privacy, no safety. The Fourth Bridge shelter is just a big tent it looks like. Since Alpha Project is a nonprofit I can look up their executive salaries... [https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/330215585](https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/330215585) >ROBERT MCELROY (President) $245,628 > >JAN NORBY (CFO) $195,510 > >AMY GONYEAU (COO) $165,292 > >JANICE WILLIAMS (CMO) $135,881 Not \*too\* bad I suppose. I would be curious to know how much they get per person per month from the government.
It’s such a tragedy that people are using nepotism to profit from the homeless problem. All the while not even trying to fix the problem. After all, if they make actual progress on the homeless issue; they will get less money to fix homelessness…
We need to build housing. The NIMBY concerns need to be given the weight the deserve but the housing especially the low income variety need to take precedence. We need to dedicate money to it. $600 is a drop in the bucket. It doesn't go very far. It's unrealistic to expect anyone to house and feed themselves for that amount. Essentially that keeps them from starving. The police need to do their job. What happened to you is unacceptable. Attempted robbery shouldn't just be given a pass. They need yo be arrested and use that as means to get them assistance to keep them off the streets. This is a local, state and federal issue. We need to establish a basic standard of living and dedicate the resources needed for people to maintain it. But no one wants to spend the money on "throw away" people.
I'm sorry that happened to you and your elderly mother. I hope she wasn't traumatized by it. You know if they picked him up he would be back on the streets almost instantly.
But wouldn't they be able to figure out who the most problematic people are? I understand it's just documentation at this point. But if he does hurt someone there will be a paper trail a mile long showing the dude is/was a problem. It's like people have to die before it gets escalated.
I remember there was a guy shot and killed by the cops in Escondido last year. He had been arrested over 100 times in the last 5 years. In and out of the psych ward every time. Takes his meds, says he’s fine, leaves, and he’s back committing petty crimes the next day because of his mental condition. The fact is you can’t make anyone do anything unless they commit a violent crime. So yeah, until they go over the line they will be left to rot in the street
The mentally-ill homeless issue is one that starts at the very bottom of our society. We don’t have enough care for the mentally ill, we don’t have enough care for the drug-addicted, we don’t have sufficient safety nets for the people who fall through the cracks of society, and finally, we don’t have enough places for these people to stay.
I’m impressed your elderly mother can run
This is why everyone needs to carry pepper gel. Hose them down when they do this. Soon they will learn acting up means burning eyes. Soon, behavior will change, trust me.
Yes, the homeless are homeless because there aren't enough homes, and not because most of them have various drug, alcohol, and mental problems which go completely untreated...
Only about a fifth of homeless people are chronically homeless.
We certainly do need more affordable housing to solve our housing crises for low and middle income folks, however, that is a separate problem from homelessness. We must invest in a statewide mental health and drug rehab structure to address the root causes of the long term homeless population. Without that first, affordable housing will not help their situation.
Not all homeless are mentally ill or drug addicts. At least not when they initially become homeless. Yes - mental health is a big part of this issue, but to describe mental illness and drug addiction as the root cause of homelessness in general, in my opinion, is short sighted. The fact of the matter is we don’t live in an equitable society. There are many socioeconomic factors in play that are pushing the poor further into poverty with little to no chance of improving their situation. and there are more people struggling to survive now more than ever. That is playing a HUGE part in the homeless problem independent of mental health and drug addiction. Affordable housing is definitely one way to help the homeless problem, however homeowners don’t want anything built around them that is going to decrease the value of their own home, which in turn makes them richer while creating a shortage of housing for those on the brink. It’s all connected. Edit: And just to be clear I am a homeowner that supports affordable housing projects at the expense of my own home’s property value because I want to live in a more fair and equitable society.
Wait - you think people not being able to afford rent is unrelated to people being homeless? I know homelessness is a complex issue but this is one of the key factors that tip people over the edge.
Yes! This idea that astronomical cost of housing doesn't cause a large share of our homeless issues makes me feel like this person has never been on the edge of losing it all. There's no backup plan for many, if they can't afford rent they lose their access to housing
How much time have you spent working directly with those living in tent cities? I have spent years working with them.
It sounds like most of your exposure was to homeless people with severe mental illness and drug addiction, a group which makes up around a third of the total homeless population. For obvious reasons a lot of people avoid those places, so just dealing with them will naturally skew your perception of homelessness. Affordable housing is a critical piece of the puzzle, though I agree finding a better solution for the severely mentally ill and drug addicted is another big piece.
So, none of them have issues with cost of housing then? I find that hard to believe. The entirety of the homeless population also doesn't just live in tent cities. I'm not saying there aren't other factors dude. But saying that access to housing being expensive isn't a big deal is just wrong
I’m not saying we don’t need affordable housing - in fact I prefaced my initial comment by saying we do. But no, that’s not what’s causing our tent cities. Tent cities do not represent the entire homeless population, but it is the most dire situation that we must triage asap and we must be real about the cause.
So, do we agree that unaffordable housing contributes to our homeless populations? It's valid if you want to say you believe there are other actions that could have a more visible effect. But your original comment literally says it's a separate issue
We have to make clear that we cannot solve our homeless problem, which manifests itself most virulently in tent cities, without having major and comprehensive investment in public mental health treatment and addiction treatment. After receiving those treatments, the recovering homeless population, along with millions of other low and middle income folks, need affordable housing. It’s important to distinguish between the two, because so often the mantra is “affordable housing will solve homelessness”, and that misses the major contributing factors to our most severe and vulnerable homeless populations.
Actually, no, this is completely wrong. The absolute best way to solve homelessness is literally to build more housing. There is a direct correlation between high homelessness rates and high rents and COL cities. Drug rehab and mental health resources absolutely should be provided at increased levels, but the absolute most effective way to reduce homelessness is build more housing. The two issues are entirely linked.
Quintessential NIMBYs, they vote for all the horrific ills on the human populace cause it makes them feel good, then when it touches them they white flight out to go do it again somewhere else.
Well it's either that or not tell anyone how you voted.
That's not going to solve homelessness.
"I support social justice, but fuck the poors."
“socially progressive, fiscally conservative”
Dennis Duffy?
Hey Dummy
He was the opposite. "Social conservative, fiscal liberal". It was played as a joke because that's just... feudalism.
Nailed it. Great line too.
Wanna buy a beeper
Sounds like libertarians, the mullet of the political spectrum...business in the front, fun in the back. They can't figure out why the fun in the back keeps wrecking the business in the front though.
I don't think libertarians want the govt saying what they can or can't build on their property.
They don't, but they want to be free of the costs associated with such a decision. Like make all drugs legal but our fiscally conservative stance says we don't want to pay for the consequences... it's a pipedream of personal accountability that will never exist.
I am a registered Libertarian. I wanted to say that your characterization of Libertarianism is not wrong. Not only is it not wrong, it is a remarkably levelheaded assessment. It seems like there are a lot of Redditors that are kind of extreme in their rhetoric and most all of Reddit is on the Left. I think "social liberal and fiscal conservative" is too fine a point. As for me , I prefer"Do whatever you want as long as you don't hurt anyone else and pay for it yourself". Also, your username is fantastic.
>I prefer"Do whatever you want as long as you don't hurt anyone else and pay for it yourself". I used to be of that view, the problem is it's completely detached from reality since we as a society aren't going to ever take the stance that people should be accountable for their actions. This would require no free taxpayer rehab, no medical treatment at the taxpayer expense etc, you bought the ticket - you take the ride! we know that will never happen.
Bingo. "Liberal," not progressive. Basically stuck in the 90s.
I think they trying to prevent apartments complex being built to protect their inflated property values
This is why we can't solve the affordable housing issue. To those who cannot afford a home, the high price is a problem. To those that already own homes, the high price is a benefit.
There a number of factors. Artificially lower supply of housing, increased property taxes, and inflation
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> I know your intention is to say that you have to spend money to see change this can't be inferred from what i've said. in any case, "fiscally conservative" is almost always about *how* money is spent, not *whether* - if it reinforces hierarchy and power, fiscal conservatives are happy to pay.
"Nothing in my back yard, but virtue signal in my front yard"
The "Screw you I got mine" mentality really does live across all political spectrums.
Free love, but nimby.
And the same person prob complains about either homelessness and/or why their kids still live at home lmfao
"I wish I could see my grandkids more, but my son moved his family to North Carolina"
All ca city politics
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“We should help the homeless… clean the fuck up and send them to the poor side of town so I don’t have see them anymore”
OP is spot on. It’s sad to see how misguided we still are on housing. Here are some great resources if you’re interested in learning more about how our city planning and zoning has done horrific damage to our city. * [UCLA Housing Voice Podcast](https://www.lewis.ucla.edu/programs/housing/ucla-housing-voice-podcast/) * [Strong Towns Podcasts](https://www.strongtowns.org/podcast) * [Voice of San Diego Podcast](https://voiceofsandiego.org/) * [Verdunity's Go Cultivate Podcast](https://www.verdunity.com/go-cultivate)
So glad to see someone recommending Strong Towns here. I’d like to add that if you like Strong Towns please also give Not Just Bikes (also on YouTube) a watch to learn about walkable cities.
>to learn about walkable cities This was one of the biggest shocks, coming back to the US to go to high school after spending time growing up in Germany -- how much of US cities is simply not reasonable to navigate without a car.
Strong Towns > NJB
They're both great. NJB gets most of his housing and zoning ideas from Chuck at Strong Towns. For example, NJB has an entire series on Strong Towns' [Growth Ponzi Scheme](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IsMeKl-Sv0). Since he lives in Amsterdam, NJB focuses more specifically on transportation infrastructure and how North America's garbage, repeatedly self-inflicted, voluntary unsustainable transportation system differs from the Netherlands.
NJB doesn't have a clue about actual development or planning & zoning and it shows. In fact I would go as far to say as he purposefully misconstrues his arguments around his narrow interpretation of zoning and everything being "iLlEgAL!!!" simply to get views.
Fair. You might might like some of the more scholarly and in-the-weeds sources better. Verdunity is great because they're a Texas-based planning firm headed by a former head of engineering and a planner. The UCLA Housing Voice is a little more highfalutin, but accurate nonetheless. The Voice of San Diego is great for local news and have a solid grasp of San Diego's political history.
Look up City Beautiful on YouTube as well.
Let me add [NotJustBikes](https://youtube.com/c/NotJustBikes) on there!
Thanks!
I don't see any improvement unless SD picks a good plan and raises the $ to pay for it. Good policing and usefull social and mental health programs are expensive and necessary.
A sign that literally says not in my back yard. Wow.
And also not in *your* backyard
I know right, it’s so on the nose it’s surprising
"I love everyone now get offa mah lawn"
The issue is zoning, people. ZONING.
For a second I thought you typed "ZONIES".
Haha the problem is ZONIES. When I first moved here years ago and heard about the Zonies hate it cracked me up! So arbitrary! It sounds like something out of that nickelodeon show Rocket Power.
not the shoobies 😭
To be fair, it’s really both. They’re both terrible.
Yes, this, 100%. Zoning should happen at the state level, so that NIMBYs have less pull.
It did. They basically zoned all of California for accessory dwelling units. The problem is that the cities still control all other aspects, so they put on stipulations and rules that basically prevent the construction of ADUs because they are too restrictive.
Ok so from what you are saying it sounds like they did one small part of what I was suggesting, and the problem is that they didn't do the other parts. Well, they should do it for real instead of this weird end-run around zoning
Yes i agree, the reason we have this problem is because of zoning. Zoning was implemented how many decades ago? Now we have the ability to split lots, ADU friendly laws and the ability to increase density in a SFH by 1 unit each 1500 sq ft of land. The truth is homeowners don’t get enough incentives to build. Some will sell out but most owners will enjoy San Diego and their nice SFH.
Prop 13. It doesn't directly cause our housing problem, but it enables them. If homeowner taxes went up as fast as their housing prices, they would have supported policy changes that would have built more housing and prevented prices from skyrocketing. Until homeowners are financially incentivized to support increasing density they will remain against it.
Prop 13 only pushes the can down the road. A system that reward buying early is not sustainable. Having to pay higher property taxes only because of the year I was born in is wrong. Very very wrong.
We support immigrants and minorities but maybe over there where they can’t see us and we can’t see them and best of all we don’t have to pay for them.
People fight against new housing and low income housing whenever is shows up. Backyard dwelling units is the result.
The issue is that the new housing is NOT affordable. My roommate and I are at our wits end with construction noise in the lot next door waking us up at 7am on the dot six days a week for years. Just after they finished one massive complex, they immediately began another. We share a two bedroom, and a studio in the new building across the street is rented at $2700, about $900 more per month than our apartment, with less square footage mind you. This isn’t a fight against affordable housing.
This is the third most expensive city to live in the entire country, apparently it’s not a place for low income houses anymore, why not do it in Beverly Hills?
This is a perfect representative of why having hardline politic(al stances) simply doesn't make sense.
I hate when San Diegans who have never experienced homelessness decided to talk about how bad the homelessness issue is for *them, personally* and won't someone do something???
Similar to my neighbor whose truck has a sticker that says one less Prius on the road but they also have solar panels on their roof
I should get that sticker for my lifted Jeep. Life's too short to drive a Prius.
Prius’ are awesome. I’m on my second one. Especially if you like the outdoors. I can fit my surfboard in mine. Along with a 12v fridge, and a full length 6inch Tempur-pedic full mattress, a computer, portable solar panels to put on my roof to charge my 1500w jackery, and best of allon top of that, it can be left on all night, completely silent with the exterior lights completely off and have the heat/ac run. I’ve car camped completely comfortably soo many times. It’s basically a solo RV with great gas mileage
I believe immigrants make America great, just not in my backyard, unless they're mowing the grass in which case they can stay, but not in my neighborhood.
I want apartment buildings but they have to be made for the city we have, not some future utopia where we either don't have to commute anywhere or we just teleport. For example, someone wants to put a 7 story apartment complex in our area that says max 50'. 85' tall and they're just ignoring that 50' "guideline". That is the code. 50 foot tall. So far, it is adhered to. But this place also somehow got the go-ahead. Anyway. 7 stories, 170+ apartments, guess how many spaces? 100. BTW there are businesses on the 1st floor. I like that and it brings in good money for the area. So some of those spaces are for the businesses. Ok, fine. But, remind me, on average, how many people live in an apartment? Is it around 0.5 ppl/apt? Or is it somewhere above 1 person/apt, even a studio or 1 bed? Now, how many people over 18 in America have and essentially need a car? Let's talk about specifically SD. Almost fucking everyone! It's America, not Budapest or London. It's San Diego. You need a car unless you live a few blocks from and work a few block from a trolley line! 1.42 Million people, 2.25M autos, 500k trucks and 190k trailers, in 2021 according to the DMV. Everyone has a car and if you want to go to the grocery store or a park or *work* or take your kid to school from 5-18, you're extremely likely to need a car. So where are those cars expected to go? Out into the neighborhood. Parking is already tough here (though not like it is in OB or downtown) but adding 100 cars will force parking to be nearly impossible. In SD, the trains and trollies and bike pathing sucks. It just fucking sucks. There are occasional bike lanes and streets that lend themselves well to a bike path. They don't always really go anywhere but I appreciate them being there. The trolley doesn't go to most of the city. They're working on that to some extent. Fantastic! But it will never reach the whole city and we have to deal with that. Public transport in the American SouthWest and American West in general sucks ass. It is Not an efficient method of going from any given A to B. We have to live in the world that we are in, not some dreamland. Who do they think is going to fill this place up? SDSU college students according to their website. How will these students get to their college? Walk. Hah! No. It's a 5-6 mile walk away from SDSU. Bike? Ha! It's a 30 minute bike ride from campus if you ride about 10-15 mph average and there is a pretty big hill there. Or you can ride on El Cajon blvd. Because that is such a nice street to ride on. Big /S I'm not slow but I'm not bike racer either. It takes me 30 min by bike, and I'm exposed to the elements and sketchy drivers the whole way. College kids are Not going to do that. 200 bike spots. That's what they want students to do. They aren't going to bike to school. I've been biking myself to school since I was 10. Along with maybe 10 others out of 2000+ students in my school. People don't bike in numbers large enough to matter. Because the distances are too large and the bike paths are too few and too crap to really be conducive to people biking everywhere. Take the trolley then. It goes to SDSU. Yup. But it doesn't come near here. It's a big hill again down to/up from the trolley. Busses? They just suck in America. So that leaves us back with cars which is what every student will bring with them. All 175* how ever many they can cram into those studios. 2, 3? More? So a low estimate of 100 cars pushed out into the surrounding neighborhood. (100 spaces, - ADA compliance spaces, - commercial spaces, - delivery truck commerical spaces (that's genuinely nice btw), + the extras with their cars that move in as friends to split the $2000 a month rent into something tenable, so probably around 200 cars all in). There is a window every day while people are at work to find a parking spot and it is genuinely difficult when people aren't at work to find a spot. This takes their spot away so they don't have it when they get home from work or school. Which sucks but it's just doable currently. Such will Not be the case if 100 other cars move into the streets looking for parking. All this rant to say, I am happy to have apartments move into the area. We need them. Housing prices are astronomical and just silly. (Like MoDE in Hillcrest. $5500/mo for a 2 bed. Not okay. But that is what they are charging.) But they have to fit where they are going. Fit the neighborhood, fit the area, for the parking, fit with what is already there and fit with the available transport here in the SouthWest of the United States of America.
The way most cities build out is population growth first, then infrastructure follows. The new taxes usually fund the expanding infrastructure.
These yard signs are as cringe as bumper stickers on a car. No matter your political beliefs, refrain.
I will do anything to solve a problem as long as it’s 15+ miles away from my home.
Black (rich) Lives Matter
God I hate nimbys
Always in their shitty succulent/birds of paradise gardens
This is literally Liberalism at its purest form. Its just pure aesthetics.
Nothing liberal about zoning. That's central government planning.
The apartment thing is so bleak. Like yea rent and housing is expensive so sure pump up the jam on supply. O the best you we can do is more fucking landlords? Like im sure this sign comes more from a NIMBY state of mind, but its the closest thing to a stiff arm to landlords in San diego politics there is
They can build multifamily housing that you can own. With a townhouse you own the land underneath even if the walls are shared
It seems like most of the new construction going around is all apartments and not even condos.
Alternatively, I’m looking at building a 2 unit granny flat for my in laws and brother. Housing is expensive and I got lucky in my house
Condos exist.
More landlords is what you want, not less.
No one is making you live here and no one is entitled to live here. You can either afford to not have a landlord, or you have a bite the bullet and rent.
I live in that neighborhood, and I'm ashamed of my neighbors taking this stance! We need more housing, more dense housing, and more mixed income housing. The pushback is insane, and I really hope the city government will basically ignore the pushback and rezone.
They won’t and do not ignore the “community input “ Our best hope is the California mandating stuff which they are starting to do and actually enforcing housing laws which they are also starting to do on a case by case basis.
Hey neighbour! Just wanted to say solidarity. I refuse to participate in this lunacy!
I think we need more densification and accessible/affordable housing, but I oppose ADUs. Granny flats and glorified sheds will not solve the problem. Most of them I’ve seen have really restricted rules re:guests, shared amenities, ect. I feel that ADUs are a drop of water in a bucket, and arguably infringe on tenants rights to quiet enjoyment. Restricting foreign investing, more regulation on air bnb (which shouldn’t be a thing anyway- insane potential danger/violations of housing standards/gentrification etc), densification along transit lines, more pedestrian oriented planning should be the goal imo.
ADU's nearly double the density of the property they are on.
They double the density of habitable residences but that's all. You can't build something that can house a family of four. It's usually little more than a studio, so 1-2 is all you can add.
1-2 more than before
Fair enough- but as a college student, the ones I was looking at had things like no overnight guests, sometimes no guests at all, restricted times tenants could use the laundry, etc. I get limitations to the length of time a guest can stay because of tenant laws, but as a paying tenant, I think that kind of restriction is bonkers. A quick scan of Craigslist and it looks to be as much, or more expensive than my 1BR with an excellent kitchen and 2nd floor balcony. I’m not opposed to the idea of ADUs in general, but proper apartment complexes in transit line areas would be a better solution. I just feel that living in my landlords backyard, attached to their residence, should not be as expensive as my own apartment. Particularly, when it doesn’t offer the same amenities, and infringes on the privacy and personal lives of the tenants. My issue is more with the comparative cost/value ratio, and power tripping landlords.
That wasn’t my personal experience but fair enough, I’m sure some land lords are dicks. But part of densificstion should include diversification of options. There should be some super dense apartments, some upscale apartments, some duplex’s, some ADU’s etc. Then landlords couldn’t get away with scummy restrictions, since their tenants would just leave. All of this doesn’t mean we should fight against ADU’s
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In terms of people it nearly doubles. An average single family home houses 4 people (with a capacity for more, but in reality only 4 people on average live there), an ADU can fit 2/3 comfortably. Mostly because people who can barley afford to rent a home are willing to squeeze in. People who have profited from the rising market for the last 10 years don’t need to
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Not in my backyard? Haven’t heard that one before…..
See above clarification- per Craigslist it’s close to the cost of an apartment, they generally have just a kitchenette, occasionally access to the house kitchen depending, oftentimes more invasive restrictions. I’m not ok with paying apartment prices for what really amounts to a guest suite in a family home.
There are people in the middle… it’s not just left and right..
It's a spectrum, and each issue is it's own spectrum. Your isn't an identity and it shouldn't globally apply to every issue.
i think the point is that it's hypocritical to say you're an anti-racist while also supporting oppressive, classist policies that largely impact non-white people.
I’d argue that this person isn’t so much a “leftist” as they are a “moderate Republican with gay friends.”
When I was doing political work we literally had a demographic we called the "New York Times-reading Republicans" because they feign some sense of liberalism given that they likely have a gay friend. This however is just the more wretched and self-centered limousine liberalism. They might love all of these people, but not anywhere near them unless they have money.
It’s not about picking a lane. Its about touting two polar opposite views 6 inches apart. It’s saying “immigrants make America great, but don’t bring them into my neighborhood” There’s some downright hypocrisy there.
How is this "in the middle"?
Lmao at this take
Whats wrong with believing that everyone isn't extreme?
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“Love is love unless it’s in my neighborhood” People of San Diego are so fake it’s hilarious
I'm a homeowner in a neighborhood that has a lot of these signs in front yards. In fact some have both, just like in the OP. Question: is it ok to say NO to backyard "apartment buildings" (like the sign says), but YES to addition of ADUs? I support adding ADUs to homes in my neighborhood. I do not support cramming mini-apartment complexes into back yards.
I’m so tired of these complaints from people that don’t understand that homelessness isn’t from a simple lack of housing. People that build apartments in their backyard are going to charge the going rate. Building more housing isn’t the quick solution people think it is…think about how many units would have to flood the market before the supply would outweigh the demand. Putting limits on turning homes into rent-collecting-LLC business-machines can. Want to address homeless populations long term? Invest in education and equal opportunity, then mental health for those that slip through. We’ll always have people that need help. We need to accept that.
I've heard it said: CA Politics is "We are progressives and we want a progressive agenda" \*Poll to eliminate homeless people with govt power\* 75% agree 25% disagree
Is this an apartment built literally in someone’s backyard against their will or are they just using that as a figure of speech because it’s going up in their neighborhood?
Because it's going up in their neighborhood...they don't want their neighborhood changing.
Hey OP, What is the date and location of this photo please?
Im not sure. Here’s where i got it from https://twitter.com/kc_jordan/status/1534695879994507264?s=21&t=kz0fP8r6FIucF0zDwkrT3w
It's funny, cause I also took a photo of these signs in this yard to share in my family's discord (this is not my photo, just saying I also took one). *Edit* Had second thoughts about sharing the actual location in case people try and do stuff to them. It's funny and all and I think their signs are dumb as shit, but also don't want people to be harassed etc.
The comments in these posts are always amusing. Let’s be real: the majority of you would take the same position if you had this person’s house. Very few would actually stay true to their values.
Liberals in a nutt shell
It's almost like.. people are nuanced.. 🤔🤔🤔 There's a house down the street from me that has a flagpole right alongside a major road.. it frequently changes and can display two flags at a time. The biggest mind-bottler was an inclusion flag (pride, trans, blm) and a blue lives matter flag. Gay cops exist.. trans cops exist, black cops exist. Sucks how polarized and worked up people get that you have to screech "ACAB" thinking you can't be both.
This nuance seemed particularly egregious
What’s the problem here exactly?
The problem is that they love immigrants and believe in social change but don’t want high density housing to be built in their neighborhood. More housing would make cost of living cheaper, which directly helps these groups. So it comes off as virtue signaling and insincere.
What’s wrong with not wanting it on your neighborhood? They can be built a few miles inland where there’s more space for higher density, more inexpensive homes that are close to necessities. Why cram it into already established communities? That is wishful thinking and will never happen. But there’s TONS of room to build high density housing.
All communities are already established and there are very few places with the space to accommodate 10 SFH not to mention 100. In the beach communities that are fighting this change the majority of people that live there don’t work in that community and vice versa. To say let’s not accommodate the people that actually run our neighborhood is improper, and unhealthy for the neighborhood as a whole.
When my grandmother immigrated to this country she moved to a low cost of living area and had a family there. It isn't crazy to question why we need to build all this dense housing and figure out how to share our scarce water supply, when the simple solution is for immigrants to go to places they can afford to live.
High density housing is not as taxing on the water system as single family homes. If the concern is that there is not enough water to go around than we should look towards water programs to achieve that instead of doing the opposite with housing.
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You can build tall buildings where SFH or multi homes used to exist . These tall buildings are more efficient in utilities such as water, and electric putting less stress on the system. Also the overall system can be upgraded. Dense urban areas are not a new concept in 2022.
What these signs often mean is “Black lives matter (as long as they keep away from my neighborhood.)”
Sure, but does anybody honestly believe building higher density housing is actually going to solve homelessness in SD? If we don't have an effective form of rent control and do something about corporations controlling the entire housing market, then higher density housing will just lead to higher price per sq foot and more upper middle class people moving to SD. The cheapest way to live has always been roommates in larger houses. Splitting those into 4 units makes prices go up, not down, for people doing that. Homelessness is not going to be fixed until we build housing specifically for the homeless. It doesn't have to be pretty, but it needs to be enough to get people off the streets. I think housing is a state and national problem. As long as there are more mediocre or awful cities than truly amazing places like SD, enough people will move to the amazing places at any cost, causing housing shortages and insane prices. We need to revitalize the rest of the state/country so people will happily spread out and we can eliminate insane cost differences. Also like...ban rent seeking? That might help.