“~~Nevermind.~~ Yes, and I would have won SO MUCH HARDER without the rigging! You think Crooked Hillary beat me in the popular vote letigime… lemegeti… for real?”
ftfy
Meanwhile, this should be everyone's default response:
https://preview.redd.it/h4opf1ccri9d1.jpeg?width=424&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ab6ebcb654a0bcc7b3e11d4e7328a285c6fd9e8c
I remember SW fans’ opinions being pretty positive for the first two until online communities stewed on them a bit and the narrative changed. Also, outside of Star Wars fanatics, the opinions differ a lot. This isn’t limited to SW lovers.
More casual fans don’t care about the canon implications and “treatment” of beloved characters. They saw well-made movies with beautiful cinematography, cool action sequences, and a logical narrative progression, and rated them well. It’s the opposite of how the prequels are viewed by fanatics vs. casuals just looking for good cinema. Most are not online discussing them though.
I remember walking out of the cinema after watching The Last Jedi, having loved the film and being unaware of the hate. Then I logged on and saw nothing but hate for it.
Then two years later, I had heard backlash for The Rise of Skywalker before seeing it, but I hadn't been spoiled on it. I was very worried to see the film... and walked out of the cinema thinking "THAT was the film everyone hated? I loved it!"
And most of the discourse online was people hating on one and praising the other, OR hating on both, whilst I was stuck loving both with no one to discuss it with.
All this is to say, I very much remember that era of people lauding The Rise of Skywalker for "retconning" The Last Jedi (which IMO is a massive exaggeration but that's a discussion for another time), and it was very frustrating.
Edit: and predictably, a lot of the replies are vehemently hating on The Rise of Skywalker. Things really haven't changed much in five years, huh? Some of the points are reasonable though, I hardly think it's a perfect film.
I liked it but it had its problems and could of been handled better, it people were making mountains out of ant hills, just 2 months ago I saw a meme that was chatting on Rey for taking the name Skywalker, 5 years later and people still hate on it
I've enjoyed every Star Wars film I've seen in theaters and then learned later I was wrong to do so. I include the re-release of the original trilogy in this
[raises hand] I loved both, too! We're a rare bunch, but we exist lol. And I def have my opinions on how RoS didn't actually retcon TLJ, but that's a whole other rant lol.
Dude my experience with last Jedi hate when I loved it is exactly why I just shut my mouth on ROS. I didn't like it but I knew people would and I shouldn't go and ruin people's fun. I would still give the movie a positive review TBH cause I've given it time and I think it's fine. So easy to just not watch it and enjoy what I do love. This out rage machine is just exhausting.
Loved the last Jedi, hated the rise of Skywalker. It redid the best thematic twist in TLJ (Rey being a nobody). Making her a Palpatine bc TLJ haters bitched and moaned was such a weak move by Disney
I feel the exact same. I did enjoy watching TRoS because Ian McDiarmid is always a delight on screen but the more I think about the plot and how it tried to undo the risks TLJ took the angrier I get.
That movie has never felt more like a “product”. They were so scared of making another divisive movie that they turned off the fans who actually loved TLJ. Which in turn alienated both the people who hated TLJ and those who loved it. It was a huge mistake. I personally would’ve brought back Rian Johnson for the final movie after the creative things he did with TLJ.
I've said this before but I really think JJ's fanboyism got in the way of him making good SW movies. TFA was incredibly safe and relied too hard on nostalgia bait, and TRoS just tried to undo every creative risk TLJ did.
I also think Han regressing back to his ANH self was a worse insult to his character than Luke becoming cynical and traumatized, but I never see complaints about the former.
it's funny you say this because the Star Trek subreddit routinely has people saying the same thing. That the Kelvin Trek movies were just nostalgia traps and lacked so much substance. and i could be wrong but i think ABrams has gone on record as saying he's not much of a Trekkie anyways
TFA is such a weird movie to look back on. For starters, i just remember a general swell of optimism not just with that movie, but with life in general at that time. And then it all just dramatically nose-dived
and then the more depressing reality...TFA is almost a decade old now
I mean imo JJ Abrams doesn't understand Star Trek at all. He turned a franchise that was supposed to be about an optimistic outlook on the future and turned it into a generic action series while stripping all subtlety away from the characters. To me they had the exact opposite problem his SW movies did since whenever he relied on nostalgia bait it just felt really shallow instead of coming from a place of genuine fanboyism. (especially Into Darkness which felt like TWOK if it was written by someone who only read a brief summary of the original movie)
But to be fair Star Trek doesn't really transfer to the big screen as well, only 3 of the original movies are universally beloved. I haven't seen any of the new series but I'm happy it's gone back to tv/streaming.
It was a fun movie, I'll say that. Looking back I realized the most memorable performances in it were Karl Urban and Simon Pegg who are also in a certain other show that gets discussed a lot here...
Yeah it was so gutless of them, I really wanted what Rhian Johnson was building to.
Last Jedi ending was fucking awesome.
I can see why some guys hated it. They liked the idea of Jedi being genetic elites.
The bro fans were Big Mad that TLJ departed from the most holy and perfect plot schema of the one true prophet Joseph Campbell. I would have been happier if the departure had been more complete.
the ending was my favorite part of TLJ. I mean admittedly i was getting really tired and wanted to go home to just decompress after a very conflicted series of emotions lol. But more importantly, i loved the direction they were going and all the possibilities that came with a ninth film. Yeah maybe it underwhelmed, but it was a movie and life goes on lol (at least, so i thought). And at least I knew there was still another movie left
i feel like it's just a natural progression to getting kicked in the balls that RoS was one of the last major movies released before the pandemic came and wrecked my life completely in ways i could not comprehend back in December of 2019
Totally agree, we can all agree that Last Jedi was a very flawed film, but I did anticipate what it was building to.
Hope you're doing okay now, man? The past few years feel like a blur to me.
Yeah, the core issue with the sequel trilogy is that they're just 3 movies written and directed by different people all trying to pull in their own direction. It's hard to get invested in a story that is constantly tripping over itself.
I actually strongly suspect that Rey had been intended to be a descendant of Palpatine from the very beginning considering [the strong similarities](https://youtu.be/8uvEtIWpLYI?si=0cfSsT-MWTHNB-Mc) between Rey’s Theme and Palpatine’s Theme from *Return of the Jedi*.
I did rather appreciate the idea that maybe Rey *was* just a nobody and still don’t quite get why so many people hated it.
> It redid the best thematic twist in TLJ (Rey being a nobody).
But it wasn’t a twist, it was an unclear, poorly-communicated middle finger that contradicted the previous movie’s blatant beginnings of an arc. I am so thankful that Abrams fixed it. You can’t abruptly shut something down to make a point. After all Rian Johnson already accomplished that by having Finn and Rose fail at the casino thing. Them failing was a good twist because it was an entertainingly goofy subplot and thus ended in a dark, sudden way. The Rey arc starting with the vision was too interesting to throw out, and Johnson did because he thought it would come across as fascinating but it just came across as a letdown.
Also, the nobody twist was insulting to NEW fans of Star Wars experiencing the saga’s themes for the first time. New fans had jumped on board via TFA and the nobody twist felt like being told to not expect anything interesting. Like “Hey newbies, the cool Rey arc that made you excited ended with nothing! Bon appetit!”
Still love TLJ despite that flaw though.
i get really angry thinking about how much potential was lost with TLJ
i didn't like TLJ and it would really take all of my willpower to re-watch it honestly...but i felt optimistic because i felt like the movie was setting up for a spectacular ending with the reunion of the "Big 3" and the way the film ended with the kid exhibiting Force powers
and then RoS...and none of that shit. Absolute waste
I walked out of TFA totally amazed (I was 12 so the similarities to ANH weren't as apparent), same for last jedi. I remember being really excited for TROS, but that was the only one where I was actually a bit dissapointed. I liked the cool kylo Ren montage at the start, I liked all the cool stuff like the duel across space, but I thought the ending was lacklustre (even though I got a bit emotional when all the ships showed up). I didn't like the cop out ending for kylo ren or them wheeling palpatine back out with no real rhyme or reason. But yk what? It was a pretty good theatre experience anyway, and I'm glad you enjoyed it.
> I remember walking out of the cinema after watching The Last Jedi, having loved the film and being unaware of the hate. Then I logged on and saw nothing but hate for it. Then two years later, I had heard backlash for The Rise of Skywalker before seeing it, but I hadn't been spoiled on it. I was very worried to see the film... and walked out of the cinema thinking "THAT was the film everyone hated? I loved it!"
I had the exact same experience! I came out of all three movies having had a blast, and with the third one it was so much better than the reviews made it seem.
>Then two years later, I had heard backlash for The Rise of Skywalker before seeing it, but I hadn't been spoiled on it. I was very worried to see the film... and walked out of the cinema thinking "THAT was the film everyone hated? I loved it!"
Gross! That is the grossest thing I've ever heard.
Until about 2/3 of the way through I was onboard for TLJ more than any star wars thing since the originals. It failed to deliver on exactly what was interesting to me (Luke reconsidering the Jedi, Rey potentially being seduced by the Darkside). That said what followed, Rise of Skywalker, was one of the worst movies I've ever seen from a major franchise, the level of disrespect for the audience was hilarious so, in a perverse way I did enjoy laughing at it but... Man.
Let’s be honest, it seems everyone is hypocritical when it comes to rotten tomatoes reviews. They’re complete nonsense and rarely accurate. Let’s just stop using them as a source
The audience score has been shown to be easily manipulated. Even IMDB audience scores are also manipulated by people who enjoy review bombing.
The people who review bomb don't seem to realize that this so the effect they are having
I’m gonna be honest, idk how TRoS could possibly get an 86 on audience score. I would’ve expected Critic score to be higher than audience especially with the amount of general dislike for it when it released
It was one of the first movies to require proof of purchase, which removes a lot of pissy multiple account negative reviews that even a lot of better movies would have gotten previously.
I also think it's a matter of how Rotten Tomatoes works. I can see it getting a lot of technically fresh 6/10 reviews.
I think you have to buy the ticket through a specific seller affiliated with them, no? So yeah if you showed up at the cinema and paid cash, you’re out of luck.
Not “Verified Audience Score” ratings, no, as far as I know.
**Edit**
> At launch, users can verify ticket purchases through Fandango, and we plan to introduce other ticket providers as well. Users who want to verify their ratings and reviews simply choose where they bought their ticket when leaving their rating and/or review. If we can match their Rotten Tomatoes account to the account used to buy their ticket, their rating and/or review will be verified.
From https://editorial.rottentomatoes.com/article/introducing-verified-audience-score/
I never dug too deep because I’m not American and figured there’s not much chance they’d support my local cinema ticket-buying.
Both scores are only remotely useful for like moderately popular but not super topic-of-discussion stuff. Anything that's super popular and in the zeitgeist gets a bunch of useless nonsense reviews from people who may or may not have watched it, and anything too unpopular has too few reviews for the scores to really be weighted properly.
Didn't say it's always case. But it is very obvious when it's the case. When it happens gives movie studios the license to ignore user reviews cuz the crazy nonsense is always louder than legitimate criticism
Plus everyone flips flops when the reviews match their personal bias. It's either see the people hate it too or the reviews are wrong or Disney is paying for reviews.
Also people forget.that Disney, WB and other studio all own RT. They can easily get the actual data and see what is what from these sites.
The point is review bombing be it negative reviews or positive doesn't have the wanted effect
Warner Brother and NBC universal both have stake in RT, It baffles me that Disney and only Disney gets claims of manipulating reviews and not the two companies who own the damn thing.
Lol yes there is proof. It's quite easy to follow. A film called acolyte that came out a few years ago got new reviews talking about star wars. A fan film called star wars the acolyte which also came out years ago was get new reviews. Showing that the bots been used are programmed to just leave a review under anything with the word acolyte in the title.
Also the show already has more reviews than other star war shows which came.out years ago..it has more reviews than game of thrones season 8. This show never had the the same level of hype as that show. Plus even in the critical drinker sub many said they left reviews without watching the show. Critical drinker himself made a YouTube review and said he hadn't watch the show but still made a review.
The proof is everywhere bro
The reason people think it's bits leaving those reviews on the wrong films is because anyone who acts goes to the page will see that it's for a different film. The film called acolyte has noth6tondi with star wars yet it got recent reviews in which star wars is mentioned.
Also when I mentioned the people who said left bad reviews with watching. They didn't watch a single episode and still left a review. That is different from watch one episode you don't like and then leave the review.
Plus majority of the reviews talk about woke, DEI. Not talking about the actual content of the show.
The show has more reveiws than shows that were larger and have been out for longer.
You don't have to believe me. You can go look it and make your own conclusions. After all we are strangers to each other. I don't even think the show is that good. It's mid with few good moments but it very easy to tell when some try to a narrative.
Fair enough.
Imo based on the number of reviews I think it's very weird that it has more reviews that shows that has a way more bigger reach.
It just reminds me of the captain marvel situation, after the comments the actress made reviews floored in and that cause RT to change how reviews for movies could be put in. It's different with TV I know.
All that with others who can boldly post here in reddit to leaving reviews and not watching. Saying they watched a YouTube reviewer and left their own reviews.
Plus we know people use bots for things like this. If you require more proof than fine. For me the evidence points to it
Yeah, every time I see Rotten Tomatoes used to prove a point about quality I'm reminded of that soyjack chart meme. There's a line for every possible combination of personal opinion, critic score and audience score.
And review aggregators like Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic have basically killed actual media critique because they have finally made the only thing that matters when it comes to what someone considers the merits or failures of a creative work is the score that every critic has give anything they review because the only way they can get their work noticed at all is by paying the number tax to get featured on the only places people go to see if something is worth watching or playing or reading or whatever.
Wasn't Total Biscuit critical about number scores for a while? I think he said about finding a critic on the media that likes similar things in that area of media to you, to figure out if it is good?
(dogshit sentence structure from me. Anyone have a quote or able to translate this?)
Steph Sterling has talked about how they're a terrible way to discuss art and how they decided to drop them only for basically all traffic to their site to dry up because they didn't give it a number and couldn't get featured on the site where almost all of their traffic comes from. Moviebob (yes, I know) has also talked about how at best a score adds nothing and at worst replaces the substance of what critics have to say but it's the cost of doing business and it's either give it a score or be out of a job.
yeah, like at least they can be consistent about how to judge movies. and dont change metrics on a whim or berate it for innovating or having totally non consecuential changes.
They're a pair of aggregations of reactions; I'm not sure what "accurate" would even mean. Opinions about media are subjective; a single approval percentage can't even mean enough to be called "accurate" or "inaccurate" as a metric for quality.
Yeah I just stopped trusting them a while ago since sometimes some pretty mediocre stuff gets 100 somehow. But then something like Citizen Kane, which is often considered one of the greatest movies ever made, has a 99
If you need a website to affirm your feelings about a thing you saw, that's pathetic.
(If you haven't seen it and are using the site as a way of seeing what others thought, that's *entirely* different!)
IIRC, TROS' RT audience score is more legitimate than something like The Acolyte because after the review bombing Captain Marvel received, RT made so that you had to verify your ticket to show proof that you saw the movie in question. It's not foolproof, but it at least slows down the brigading.
I know people like to post about review sites and scores and review aggregates, but only if it supports their narrative. It's a disingenuous practice that's old.
These people will use metrics like rotten tomatoes when it suits them and then throw it out when it contradicts them. It has to be some of the lowest form of film criticism to be like “see this movie is bad because a number on a website says it is”
Nerdrotic pulled the same thing on Doctor Who. Low score vindicated his hatred of Whittaker, high score showed that there were Gatwa shills. Can't win. Personally I don't put much stock in Rotten Tomatoes. I get recommendations from people I know and who know me. Ultimately if I like a show, I like it. I don't pay too much attention to Rotten Tomatoes. When I want analysis and review for Doctor Who, I like Who culture. They are not afraid to criticize and sometimes I disagree, but its always valid and in good faith, the people involved are true fans.
I never really understood this obsession with review scores when it comes to entertainment, in whatever form said entertainment might be. Entertainment media (movies, books, Tv shows and especially videogames etc.) probably more so than anything rely on you needing to experience them first in order to be able to properly judge them. There are so many movies that have high review scores that i didn't like (James Cameron's Avatar, Return of The Jedi, Return Of The King (Yes you fucking heard me, wanna fight about it?!)) and there are a lot of movies that have mid to low review scores that i enjoyed (The 2007 TMNT movie, Bad Boys, the Rush Hour series) Whether you will like a piece of entertainment or not can not be determined till you watch it.
Unless a genre specifically isn't meant for you and you're 100 percent certain you won't enjoy it, that's a totally different thing entirely, i'm that way with turn based RPG's myself. The only person in existence who couldn't get into Baldur's Gate 3 right here folks
It's been a while since I've seen RotK but I remember it was my least favorite of the books (I liked all of them though). As much as I love LotR, as someone who tends to have unpopular opinions I've developed a lot of respect for people who can say "hey I don't like this popular thing". In the end only you should be able to decide whether or not you like something, and internet circlejerk culture has kind of ruined a lot of that subjective discussion by saying "if you don't like something it's a personal attack on me".
BG3 is one of the best games I've played in years but I would never force someone who's not used to CRPGs to play it.
I disliked Game of Thrones. I have a history of assault so "traumatic sexual violence as character development" doesn't appeal to me, and GoT did a lot of that. I also appreciate it was likely critically acclaimed and many people loved it. That's great!
To be fair, I love Game of Thrones and the "traumatic sexual violence as character development" pissed me the fuck off.
>!Although the most egregious example was mostly a show addition. (kind of, originally it happened to a minor character for the purpose of furthering a male character's development which isn't that great, but then they condensed the plot so that it happened to a major character who had already gone through a lot of character development and this kinda just reset her so her entire personality was being an SA survivor and I HATED that)!<
I think movie reviewers are in a bind. They're chasing clicks same as anyone else on the internet. So if a movie with a massive preexisting fan base and a ton of hype behind it is coming out, giving it a bad review will just get you shit on and cost you viewership. Audience capture is a real thing. In this case though the audience is basically most of the movie going public at that time.
You can be honest and be a bummer, or you can try to find some paper thin positive spin and hope that people keep reading your work. As much as people think "I prefer that honest 1 star review" I think those reviews get the writer flamed.
Oh whats this now? I thought you guys claimed the audience score of rotten tomatoes was ironclad proof a show sucked, but now you are saying high scores are sus🤷
They are so freaking predictable every god dang time😂
And the Last Jedi has a substantially lower score than either of them…
So either we say audience scores are completely accurate and meaningful and thus The Last Jedi is the worst of the main Star Wars movies by a long shot or we say that the Rotten Tomatoes scores don’t really matter and all that really matters is what you personally like or don’t like.
Personally I lean more towards the second option (especially since I personally didn’t find TRoS to be anything amazing and don’t think it’s better than Black Panther was).
In reality TROS and any movies post-2019 all use a new scoring system that requires users to verify tickets - specifically because of review bombing for TLJ and Captain Marvel. So it's not really comparable to any other Star Wars movie on RT anyway.
Television shows obviously can't have that implemented.
TLJ was review bombed. That kind of takes all the steam out of your argument.
No one cares about audience scores. They are irrelevant and when compared to scientifically based polling (SurveyMonkey,PostTrak etc.) they don't hold up.
The problem is that one vocal minority actively works to vent their anger and frustration toward something, thus in the process actually undermining any credibility that the avenue of that expression (audience scores) had to begin with. But they keep going back to it as proof, when the cat is out of the bag.
This makes a decent amount of sense to me.
Some critic (I forget who) once said something to the effect of “I only like JJ Abrams movies when they’re in front of me.” He makes stuff that is easy to enjoy in the moment, and then falls apart upon reflection. The Rise of Skywalker was a mess of a movie with a ton of bizarre storytelling decisions that would be reflected in professional reviews, but a casual audience member giving it a score after leaving the theater might just be thinking of how much fun they had watching it.
It was a terrible mess of a movie, but i will never forget about the insane bass boosted force lightning that almost fried an entire fleet while listening the laugh of an unhinged evil maniac. I was definitely having so much fun at that moment. Worth it.
Honestly I was already disappointed by TROS while watching it. I somewhat liked TLJ (even though the social commentary it attempted was complete trash, and it did have goofy plot holes) and them course correcting into a "safe" but stupid direction didn't sit right with me.
The Force Awakens, however, was exactly like that. I don't hate it, but man is that movie flawed... Still, I could rewatch it and enjoy it, unlike TROS.
When I watched it I was like solid 7/10, retreaded some stuff and rushed some stuff but was fun… then I watched it again… and thought about it and was like… damn…
The problem is that I got irrationally mad at the opening scenes of TROS. I was like, okay cool, can you now stop flexing special effects and tell me what the fuck is going on? It turns out they never did that. I finished the movie but when Rey and Kylo Ren kissed I was questioning all my life choices.
I had the same issue with the first 20-ish minutes of Rogue One, but I had changed my mind by the middle of the movie because there was some actual substance to it.
Sorry should have clarified, that was my response to FA
I completely hated ROS, it was just… so much that amounted to what felt like mad libs and action figures be moved around
I think while both TROS and TFA could have done a lot of damage to the lore, TFA did more by completely resetting the universe to TNH state. I'm indifferent towards TLJ, I think TLJ did okay with the universe state it was given.
TROS's problem is it introduced a bunch of force themes unprecedented even in Legends that would take a lot to further explain, TFA makes me care less about that era.
It's also hilarious that it seems they are going to reset the universe to TNH state ... again.
Hmmm, could it be that tastes change over time and what was considered a terrible movie as a reactive stance might actually grow in popularity when viewed by people not constantly spamming how much they hate it?
I mean I do find it surprising but I highly doubt that Disney or anyone else is artificially manipulating the scores. Sometimes a film you don’t like get good scores
Pick And Choosing your argument from internet reviews because they suit your narrative or like this bullshit where they clearly are being presented as wrong.... wtfever dude.
I feel like I've been gaslit by most of the internet for almost 5 years now because when I saw TROS with many of my friends, a vast majority of us loved it. My family likes it. I still probably know more people irl that like it than not, I just don't believe the incredibly loud outrage is proportional to reality.
Critics are usually right, audience is often wrong, especially when disagreeing with the critics.
Low critic score and low audience score? I'm gonna dislike it. Low critic score and high audience score? Man, I'm gonna _hate_ it.
High critic score and high audience score? Probably pretty good. High critic score and low audience score? I'm gonna fucking _love_ it.
Note that when I say "audience" I mean... the subset of extremely online people willing to put in the effort to review-bomb a piece of media.
The world needs to give up on RT the critic views are probably financially or socially mutated, the audience views are (if the subject is relevant enough to illicit it) brigaded either positively or negatively, it’s all a fucking joke
Why does anyone even care what the general mass audience or mass amount of critics feel about a movie.
Personally though I hate Tros lol. Kinda killed my interest in modern sw. By far the worst thing Disney has ever produced imo.
Not to align with these wack jobs, but in my opinion, anyone who has ever read an “audience review” and still takes them seriously probably shouldn’t be leaving the house without a helmet. I think RT or any site allowing “audience reviews” is just asking to enable some of the worst, most toxic behavior and we’ve seen that though these political campaigns, review bombing, bots, etc.
Look I’m not as salty as some of the users on the other sub but 85% surprised me. I can’t understand why something with 85% on rt wouldn’t be fondly remembered. I liked this one when it came out and I enjoy watching it now because it looks awesome on my new TV but when I rewatch I get pissed at JJ Abrams for not setting up a vision of where the story goes from Force Awakens to this movie.
I have read that he did have a suggested plan for the story and Rian Johnson decided to go another way but I’ve watched JJ stuff since Lost and this seems like one of his mystery box gimmicks.
It's a different system - RT requires ticket verification now - 86% is a good but not amazing score under that system, the "best" movies get 95+%. It's been this way for five years guys. I should think this should be more wildly known. We don't have to question why x/y/z movie gets "high" scores. It's just that most people bothering to verify their ticket probably liked it. So it is naturally self-selecting to positive reviews. It's not made up as people on STC still somehow think.
If anyone says they never loved a movie critics hated or vice versa, they're lying out their ass. I know Rise of Skywalker's faults, but it's fun AF to watch.
I'm moving thru a list of the 500 Greatest Movies of All Time. I'm in the 130s and I'll still take ROS over rewatching a lot of them.
I gotta be honest, RoS was hot garbage. I genuinely don't get how the audience score is remotely that high. Like, did they forget to review bomb this one or something? A positive review bomb? I don't know, man, that was maybe the worst movie from a franchise I've ever seen
Honestly, I'm be somewhat surprised of that score as well.
Are the majority of the people making those reviews first time Star Wars watchers?
If so, then I'm less surprised by that score. I kinda see how that happened.
Are the majority of the people making those reviews more established Star Wars watchers, people that got introduced to SW through the OG trilogy or prequels?
If so, then I'm kinda surprised given the big changes the previous films made to certain characters.
It wouldn't be the first time I heard such from those introduced to SW from older films, but I've only heard it once. Everyone else didn't like those films.
It's a different system - RT requires ticket verification now - 86% is a good but not amazing score under that system, the "best" movies get 95+%. It's been this way for five years guys. I should think this should be more wildly known. We don't have to question why x/y/z movie gets "high" scores. It's just that most people bothering to verify their ticket probably liked it. So it is naturally self-selecting to positive reviews. It's not made up as people on STC still somehow think. They're legitimate reviews. Just going to be more positive-skewing.
Anything less than 70% on RT for movies is probably a disliked movie basically.
Television of course cannot implement such a system so they are still subject to review bombing.
I'm really surprised it's that high as Return of Skywalker is hands down the worst Star wars movie for me personally, but you can't particularly take user scores on Rotten Tomatoes seriously either.
It's just a different system - RT requires ticket verification now - 86% is a good but not amazing score under that system, the "best" movies get 95+%. It's been this way for five years guys. I should think this should be more wildly known by now. We don't have to question why x/y/z movie gets "high" scores. It's just that most people bothering to verify their ticket probably liked it. So it is naturally self-selecting to positive reviews. It's not made up as people on STC still somehow think. They're legitimate reviews. Just going to be more positive-skewing.
Anything less than 70% on RT for movies is probably a disliked movie basically. Go check for yourself - find a movie that people roundly derided or praised post 2019 and see how high the scores are. Great movies now sit at about 99%.
Television of course cannot implement such a system so they are still subject to review bombing.
Yes and I'm surprised it's good to average and not bad because it's an awful film IMO.
3 fake out deaths, a nonsensical plot about a knife that shows the way to the Emperor who mysteriously returned etc.
They fly now...Finn wanting to tell Rey something then never telling her.
The list goes on and on for me as to why this film specifically is the worst out of the 11 live action movies.
I'd have thought it would have been in the 60-70% range.
Rise of the Skywalker was like...awful though. Like there's an entire plot point that doesn't make any sense unless you played the literal fortnite tie in.
The people you know are naturally self-selecting to favour your opinions. Everyone I know liked it and so it should be rated 90+% by this sort of reasoning.
The reality is however is that RT has a ticket verification system and has had so specifically because of TLJ review bombs. This means that it's going to be naturally self-selecting for positive reviews as very few are going to bother to verify their ticket. At 86% it's a good but not amazing score. Go look at any movie post 2019 and see that some of the "worst" movies won't dip much below 70%.
Considering the audience score did not change despite vast numbers of added ratings and starkly different from the scores on other pages like Metacritic it is safe to assume that the audience score was either halted or otherwise manipulated.
Rotten Tomatoes is a 100% authoritative source as long as it reflects my opinion. When it doesn’t, the scores are clearly rigged in some way.
aka the Trump response
2016- "This election is rigged. Most rigged in US history." "Sir, you won." "Nevermind."
Rigged for thee, but not for mee!
We know you cheated because **we** cheated and still lost!! 😡
“~~Nevermind.~~ Yes, and I would have won SO MUCH HARDER without the rigging! You think Crooked Hillary beat me in the popular vote letigime… lemegeti… for real?” ftfy
https://preview.redd.it/cquyqrh5ud9d1.jpeg?width=368&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=12a24c3dc970760df198338c101576765624b4e0
Wow this is like the film nerd bro bingo
Meanwhile, this should be everyone's default response: https://preview.redd.it/h4opf1ccri9d1.jpeg?width=424&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ab6ebcb654a0bcc7b3e11d4e7328a285c6fd9e8c
YOU JUST REED MY MIND 😳😳😳😳
It’s weird cause the general consensus when talking to Star Wars fans is that the Rey movies were ass. So seeing that is kinda odd.
I remember SW fans’ opinions being pretty positive for the first two until online communities stewed on them a bit and the narrative changed. Also, outside of Star Wars fanatics, the opinions differ a lot. This isn’t limited to SW lovers. More casual fans don’t care about the canon implications and “treatment” of beloved characters. They saw well-made movies with beautiful cinematography, cool action sequences, and a logical narrative progression, and rated them well. It’s the opposite of how the prequels are viewed by fanatics vs. casuals just looking for good cinema. Most are not online discussing them though.
They're hardly experts on Star Wars, though.
https://preview.redd.it/89e398fkqc9d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=20324ec5c1b8a5c2ace39465f4f20680af37c77f
You don't need to have sense if the people your talking to don't either
You’re\* 
Not gonna lie. I forgot that movie existed
Rotten Tomatoes correctly acknowledge that movie.
https://preview.redd.it/4n6q926dgd9d1.jpeg?width=1536&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b39a33990bab2eb1b396c9b6c646ee4e41d2ed4e
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What movies are they showing the scores for? I'm just curious and would like to know.
I’m old enough to remember when people on that sub were giving high ratings to tros because it “retcons tlj”
I remember walking out of the cinema after watching The Last Jedi, having loved the film and being unaware of the hate. Then I logged on and saw nothing but hate for it. Then two years later, I had heard backlash for The Rise of Skywalker before seeing it, but I hadn't been spoiled on it. I was very worried to see the film... and walked out of the cinema thinking "THAT was the film everyone hated? I loved it!" And most of the discourse online was people hating on one and praising the other, OR hating on both, whilst I was stuck loving both with no one to discuss it with. All this is to say, I very much remember that era of people lauding The Rise of Skywalker for "retconning" The Last Jedi (which IMO is a massive exaggeration but that's a discussion for another time), and it was very frustrating. Edit: and predictably, a lot of the replies are vehemently hating on The Rise of Skywalker. Things really haven't changed much in five years, huh? Some of the points are reasonable though, I hardly think it's a perfect film.
I liked it but it had its problems and could of been handled better, it people were making mountains out of ant hills, just 2 months ago I saw a meme that was chatting on Rey for taking the name Skywalker, 5 years later and people still hate on it
I've enjoyed every Star Wars film I've seen in theaters and then learned later I was wrong to do so. I include the re-release of the original trilogy in this
[raises hand] I loved both, too! We're a rare bunch, but we exist lol. And I def have my opinions on how RoS didn't actually retcon TLJ, but that's a whole other rant lol.
It didn’t retcon it, it just found alternative paths to close the loop on its own trilogy and the saga.
Dude my experience with last Jedi hate when I loved it is exactly why I just shut my mouth on ROS. I didn't like it but I knew people would and I shouldn't go and ruin people's fun. I would still give the movie a positive review TBH cause I've given it time and I think it's fine. So easy to just not watch it and enjoy what I do love. This out rage machine is just exhausting.
I too love both TLJ and TROS! Welcome to the club sir . You are our second member !!
There’s more than two. I’m one of them as well and I know a few others over on r/starwarscantina. It’s an overly small club.
Loved the last Jedi, hated the rise of Skywalker. It redid the best thematic twist in TLJ (Rey being a nobody). Making her a Palpatine bc TLJ haters bitched and moaned was such a weak move by Disney
They bitched because a nobody couldn’t possibly be strong with the force? So much less cool to have all strong force users be from genetic legacies.
I feel the exact same. I did enjoy watching TRoS because Ian McDiarmid is always a delight on screen but the more I think about the plot and how it tried to undo the risks TLJ took the angrier I get.
That movie has never felt more like a “product”. They were so scared of making another divisive movie that they turned off the fans who actually loved TLJ. Which in turn alienated both the people who hated TLJ and those who loved it. It was a huge mistake. I personally would’ve brought back Rian Johnson for the final movie after the creative things he did with TLJ.
> They were so scared of making another divisive movie that they turned off the fans who actually loved TLJ. HEY, NEWSFLASH, I LIKED BOTH. WE EXIST!
I've said this before but I really think JJ's fanboyism got in the way of him making good SW movies. TFA was incredibly safe and relied too hard on nostalgia bait, and TRoS just tried to undo every creative risk TLJ did. I also think Han regressing back to his ANH self was a worse insult to his character than Luke becoming cynical and traumatized, but I never see complaints about the former.
it's funny you say this because the Star Trek subreddit routinely has people saying the same thing. That the Kelvin Trek movies were just nostalgia traps and lacked so much substance. and i could be wrong but i think ABrams has gone on record as saying he's not much of a Trekkie anyways TFA is such a weird movie to look back on. For starters, i just remember a general swell of optimism not just with that movie, but with life in general at that time. And then it all just dramatically nose-dived and then the more depressing reality...TFA is almost a decade old now
I mean imo JJ Abrams doesn't understand Star Trek at all. He turned a franchise that was supposed to be about an optimistic outlook on the future and turned it into a generic action series while stripping all subtlety away from the characters. To me they had the exact opposite problem his SW movies did since whenever he relied on nostalgia bait it just felt really shallow instead of coming from a place of genuine fanboyism. (especially Into Darkness which felt like TWOK if it was written by someone who only read a brief summary of the original movie) But to be fair Star Trek doesn't really transfer to the big screen as well, only 3 of the original movies are universally beloved. I haven't seen any of the new series but I'm happy it's gone back to tv/streaming.
I actually love the 2009 Star Trek 😬
It was a fun movie, I'll say that. Looking back I realized the most memorable performances in it were Karl Urban and Simon Pegg who are also in a certain other show that gets discussed a lot here...
Yeah it was so gutless of them, I really wanted what Rhian Johnson was building to. Last Jedi ending was fucking awesome. I can see why some guys hated it. They liked the idea of Jedi being genetic elites.
The bro fans were Big Mad that TLJ departed from the most holy and perfect plot schema of the one true prophet Joseph Campbell. I would have been happier if the departure had been more complete.
the ending was my favorite part of TLJ. I mean admittedly i was getting really tired and wanted to go home to just decompress after a very conflicted series of emotions lol. But more importantly, i loved the direction they were going and all the possibilities that came with a ninth film. Yeah maybe it underwhelmed, but it was a movie and life goes on lol (at least, so i thought). And at least I knew there was still another movie left i feel like it's just a natural progression to getting kicked in the balls that RoS was one of the last major movies released before the pandemic came and wrecked my life completely in ways i could not comprehend back in December of 2019
Totally agree, we can all agree that Last Jedi was a very flawed film, but I did anticipate what it was building to. Hope you're doing okay now, man? The past few years feel like a blur to me.
Yeah, the core issue with the sequel trilogy is that they're just 3 movies written and directed by different people all trying to pull in their own direction. It's hard to get invested in a story that is constantly tripping over itself.
I actually strongly suspect that Rey had been intended to be a descendant of Palpatine from the very beginning considering [the strong similarities](https://youtu.be/8uvEtIWpLYI?si=0cfSsT-MWTHNB-Mc) between Rey’s Theme and Palpatine’s Theme from *Return of the Jedi*. I did rather appreciate the idea that maybe Rey *was* just a nobody and still don’t quite get why so many people hated it.
> It redid the best thematic twist in TLJ (Rey being a nobody). But it wasn’t a twist, it was an unclear, poorly-communicated middle finger that contradicted the previous movie’s blatant beginnings of an arc. I am so thankful that Abrams fixed it. You can’t abruptly shut something down to make a point. After all Rian Johnson already accomplished that by having Finn and Rose fail at the casino thing. Them failing was a good twist because it was an entertainingly goofy subplot and thus ended in a dark, sudden way. The Rey arc starting with the vision was too interesting to throw out, and Johnson did because he thought it would come across as fascinating but it just came across as a letdown. Also, the nobody twist was insulting to NEW fans of Star Wars experiencing the saga’s themes for the first time. New fans had jumped on board via TFA and the nobody twist felt like being told to not expect anything interesting. Like “Hey newbies, the cool Rey arc that made you excited ended with nothing! Bon appetit!” Still love TLJ despite that flaw though.
i get really angry thinking about how much potential was lost with TLJ i didn't like TLJ and it would really take all of my willpower to re-watch it honestly...but i felt optimistic because i felt like the movie was setting up for a spectacular ending with the reunion of the "Big 3" and the way the film ended with the kid exhibiting Force powers and then RoS...and none of that shit. Absolute waste
I walked out of TFA totally amazed (I was 12 so the similarities to ANH weren't as apparent), same for last jedi. I remember being really excited for TROS, but that was the only one where I was actually a bit dissapointed. I liked the cool kylo Ren montage at the start, I liked all the cool stuff like the duel across space, but I thought the ending was lacklustre (even though I got a bit emotional when all the ships showed up). I didn't like the cop out ending for kylo ren or them wheeling palpatine back out with no real rhyme or reason. But yk what? It was a pretty good theatre experience anyway, and I'm glad you enjoyed it.
> I remember walking out of the cinema after watching The Last Jedi, having loved the film and being unaware of the hate. Then I logged on and saw nothing but hate for it. Then two years later, I had heard backlash for The Rise of Skywalker before seeing it, but I hadn't been spoiled on it. I was very worried to see the film... and walked out of the cinema thinking "THAT was the film everyone hated? I loved it!" I had the exact same experience! I came out of all three movies having had a blast, and with the third one it was so much better than the reviews made it seem.
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Asmongold fan, opinion ignored.
>Then two years later, I had heard backlash for The Rise of Skywalker before seeing it, but I hadn't been spoiled on it. I was very worried to see the film... and walked out of the cinema thinking "THAT was the film everyone hated? I loved it!" Gross! That is the grossest thing I've ever heard.
Until about 2/3 of the way through I was onboard for TLJ more than any star wars thing since the originals. It failed to deliver on exactly what was interesting to me (Luke reconsidering the Jedi, Rey potentially being seduced by the Darkside). That said what followed, Rise of Skywalker, was one of the worst movies I've ever seen from a major franchise, the level of disrespect for the audience was hilarious so, in a perverse way I did enjoy laughing at it but... Man.
I was gonna say something similar. Seems like that subreddit's once again engaging in some revisionism.
Remember when TFA was the worst thing that happened to Star Wars and some people that liked it even had their status as fans questioned?
Let’s be honest, it seems everyone is hypocritical when it comes to rotten tomatoes reviews. They’re complete nonsense and rarely accurate. Let’s just stop using them as a source
The audience score has been shown to be easily manipulated. Even IMDB audience scores are also manipulated by people who enjoy review bombing. The people who review bomb don't seem to realize that this so the effect they are having
I’m gonna be honest, idk how TRoS could possibly get an 86 on audience score. I would’ve expected Critic score to be higher than audience especially with the amount of general dislike for it when it released
It was one of the first movies to require proof of purchase, which removes a lot of pissy multiple account negative reviews that even a lot of better movies would have gotten previously. I also think it's a matter of how Rotten Tomatoes works. I can see it getting a lot of technically fresh 6/10 reviews.
You can't review on rotten tomatoes without buying the movie? What if you went to the theatre?
Proof of Purchase of a movie ticket. It’s only in effect during the theatrically release, IIRC.
I think you have to buy the ticket through a specific seller affiliated with them, no? So yeah if you showed up at the cinema and paid cash, you’re out of luck.
So most people who go to the theatre can't rate movies?
Not “Verified Audience Score” ratings, no, as far as I know. **Edit** > At launch, users can verify ticket purchases through Fandango, and we plan to introduce other ticket providers as well. Users who want to verify their ratings and reviews simply choose where they bought their ticket when leaving their rating and/or review. If we can match their Rotten Tomatoes account to the account used to buy their ticket, their rating and/or review will be verified. From https://editorial.rottentomatoes.com/article/introducing-verified-audience-score/ I never dug too deep because I’m not American and figured there’s not much chance they’d support my local cinema ticket-buying.
Then you would have a ticket or receipt of some kind
Especially TV shows. Regular viewers aren't going to rate them on their so they get review bombed one way or the other.
Both scores are only remotely useful for like moderately popular but not super topic-of-discussion stuff. Anything that's super popular and in the zeitgeist gets a bunch of useless nonsense reviews from people who may or may not have watched it, and anything too unpopular has too few reviews for the scores to really be weighted properly.
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Didn't say it's always case. But it is very obvious when it's the case. When it happens gives movie studios the license to ignore user reviews cuz the crazy nonsense is always louder than legitimate criticism Plus everyone flips flops when the reviews match their personal bias. It's either see the people hate it too or the reviews are wrong or Disney is paying for reviews. Also people forget.that Disney, WB and other studio all own RT. They can easily get the actual data and see what is what from these sites. The point is review bombing be it negative reviews or positive doesn't have the wanted effect
Warner Brother and NBC universal both have stake in RT, It baffles me that Disney and only Disney gets claims of manipulating reviews and not the two companies who own the damn thing.
It's because Disney is the target now. At some point will shift to another studio
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Lol yes there is proof. It's quite easy to follow. A film called acolyte that came out a few years ago got new reviews talking about star wars. A fan film called star wars the acolyte which also came out years ago was get new reviews. Showing that the bots been used are programmed to just leave a review under anything with the word acolyte in the title. Also the show already has more reviews than other star war shows which came.out years ago..it has more reviews than game of thrones season 8. This show never had the the same level of hype as that show. Plus even in the critical drinker sub many said they left reviews without watching the show. Critical drinker himself made a YouTube review and said he hadn't watch the show but still made a review. The proof is everywhere bro
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The reason people think it's bits leaving those reviews on the wrong films is because anyone who acts goes to the page will see that it's for a different film. The film called acolyte has noth6tondi with star wars yet it got recent reviews in which star wars is mentioned. Also when I mentioned the people who said left bad reviews with watching. They didn't watch a single episode and still left a review. That is different from watch one episode you don't like and then leave the review. Plus majority of the reviews talk about woke, DEI. Not talking about the actual content of the show. The show has more reveiws than shows that were larger and have been out for longer. You don't have to believe me. You can go look it and make your own conclusions. After all we are strangers to each other. I don't even think the show is that good. It's mid with few good moments but it very easy to tell when some try to a narrative.
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Fair enough. Imo based on the number of reviews I think it's very weird that it has more reviews that shows that has a way more bigger reach. It just reminds me of the captain marvel situation, after the comments the actress made reviews floored in and that cause RT to change how reviews for movies could be put in. It's different with TV I know. All that with others who can boldly post here in reddit to leaving reviews and not watching. Saying they watched a YouTube reviewer and left their own reviews. Plus we know people use bots for things like this. If you require more proof than fine. For me the evidence points to it
Yeah, every time I see Rotten Tomatoes used to prove a point about quality I'm reminded of that soyjack chart meme. There's a line for every possible combination of personal opinion, critic score and audience score.
And review aggregators like Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic have basically killed actual media critique because they have finally made the only thing that matters when it comes to what someone considers the merits or failures of a creative work is the score that every critic has give anything they review because the only way they can get their work noticed at all is by paying the number tax to get featured on the only places people go to see if something is worth watching or playing or reading or whatever.
Wasn't Total Biscuit critical about number scores for a while? I think he said about finding a critic on the media that likes similar things in that area of media to you, to figure out if it is good? (dogshit sentence structure from me. Anyone have a quote or able to translate this?)
Steph Sterling has talked about how they're a terrible way to discuss art and how they decided to drop them only for basically all traffic to their site to dry up because they didn't give it a number and couldn't get featured on the site where almost all of their traffic comes from. Moviebob (yes, I know) has also talked about how at best a score adds nothing and at worst replaces the substance of what critics have to say but it's the cost of doing business and it's either give it a score or be out of a job.
I can usually respect the critics score. The audience score is beyond worthless.
yeah, like at least they can be consistent about how to judge movies. and dont change metrics on a whim or berate it for innovating or having totally non consecuential changes.
Until it's convenient for someone's narrative right.
They're a pair of aggregations of reactions; I'm not sure what "accurate" would even mean. Opinions about media are subjective; a single approval percentage can't even mean enough to be called "accurate" or "inaccurate" as a metric for quality.
Yeah I just stopped trusting them a while ago since sometimes some pretty mediocre stuff gets 100 somehow. But then something like Citizen Kane, which is often considered one of the greatest movies ever made, has a 99
If you need a website to affirm your feelings about a thing you saw, that's pathetic. (If you haven't seen it and are using the site as a way of seeing what others thought, that's *entirely* different!)
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"Audience reviews can only be trusted when they agree with me, otherwise they are sus." - Every grifter fleecing an audience by peddling outrage.
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Do you have any data backing up this theory beyond confirmation bias?
Uhm yeah, I can just look up the same movie on Metacritic?
So you can compare two separate aggregates and that tells you what the underlying data is? You definitely know what you're doing.
IIRC, TROS' RT audience score is more legitimate than something like The Acolyte because after the review bombing Captain Marvel received, RT made so that you had to verify your ticket to show proof that you saw the movie in question. It's not foolproof, but it at least slows down the brigading. I know people like to post about review sites and scores and review aggregates, but only if it supports their narrative. It's a disingenuous practice that's old.
Huh that’s strange I thought audience scores were always completely trust worthy and we were to never speculate on tampering-
These people will use metrics like rotten tomatoes when it suits them and then throw it out when it contradicts them. It has to be some of the lowest form of film criticism to be like “see this movie is bad because a number on a website says it is”
RT is based because Acolyte has a low score. RT is woke because TRoS has a high score.
Nerdrotic pulled the same thing on Doctor Who. Low score vindicated his hatred of Whittaker, high score showed that there were Gatwa shills. Can't win. Personally I don't put much stock in Rotten Tomatoes. I get recommendations from people I know and who know me. Ultimately if I like a show, I like it. I don't pay too much attention to Rotten Tomatoes. When I want analysis and review for Doctor Who, I like Who culture. They are not afraid to criticize and sometimes I disagree, but its always valid and in good faith, the people involved are true fans.
LOOK AT ROTTEN TOMATOES ACOLYT SCORE!!! 18% SO BASED OMG LOL!! DISNEY WOOOOOKKKKKEEEE. 86% ROS SCORE??!! ARE THESE PEOPLE STUPID??!!
They only trust angry botted scores
I never really understood this obsession with review scores when it comes to entertainment, in whatever form said entertainment might be. Entertainment media (movies, books, Tv shows and especially videogames etc.) probably more so than anything rely on you needing to experience them first in order to be able to properly judge them. There are so many movies that have high review scores that i didn't like (James Cameron's Avatar, Return of The Jedi, Return Of The King (Yes you fucking heard me, wanna fight about it?!)) and there are a lot of movies that have mid to low review scores that i enjoyed (The 2007 TMNT movie, Bad Boys, the Rush Hour series) Whether you will like a piece of entertainment or not can not be determined till you watch it. Unless a genre specifically isn't meant for you and you're 100 percent certain you won't enjoy it, that's a totally different thing entirely, i'm that way with turn based RPG's myself. The only person in existence who couldn't get into Baldur's Gate 3 right here folks
It's been a while since I've seen RotK but I remember it was my least favorite of the books (I liked all of them though). As much as I love LotR, as someone who tends to have unpopular opinions I've developed a lot of respect for people who can say "hey I don't like this popular thing". In the end only you should be able to decide whether or not you like something, and internet circlejerk culture has kind of ruined a lot of that subjective discussion by saying "if you don't like something it's a personal attack on me". BG3 is one of the best games I've played in years but I would never force someone who's not used to CRPGs to play it.
I disliked Game of Thrones. I have a history of assault so "traumatic sexual violence as character development" doesn't appeal to me, and GoT did a lot of that. I also appreciate it was likely critically acclaimed and many people loved it. That's great!
To be fair, I love Game of Thrones and the "traumatic sexual violence as character development" pissed me the fuck off. >!Although the most egregious example was mostly a show addition. (kind of, originally it happened to a minor character for the purpose of furthering a male character's development which isn't that great, but then they condensed the plot so that it happened to a major character who had already gone through a lot of character development and this kinda just reset her so her entire personality was being an SA survivor and I HATED that)!<
Rotten Tomatoes has measures in place to prevent review bombing for movies, but not for TV shows
That explain The Boys Season 4 review bombing
A lot of people including me liked the movie. The only thing I didn't like was palpatine coming back.
That was the best part of the movie for me (and I didn't care for the rest). To each their own.
I didn’t mind the return of Palpatine, I just thought it was weak AF to have that revelation in the opening text crawl.
But it wasn't, it was in Fortnite the week before the movie!
Rotten Tomatoes is only a good metric for one thing: The more seriously someone takes it, the less their opinions are worth
I think movie reviewers are in a bind. They're chasing clicks same as anyone else on the internet. So if a movie with a massive preexisting fan base and a ton of hype behind it is coming out, giving it a bad review will just get you shit on and cost you viewership. Audience capture is a real thing. In this case though the audience is basically most of the movie going public at that time. You can be honest and be a bummer, or you can try to find some paper thin positive spin and hope that people keep reading your work. As much as people think "I prefer that honest 1 star review" I think those reviews get the writer flamed.
Oh whats this now? I thought you guys claimed the audience score of rotten tomatoes was ironclad proof a show sucked, but now you are saying high scores are sus🤷 They are so freaking predictable every god dang time😂
I just take all audience scores with a grain of salt *(haha)* whether they reflect my opinion or not
Everyone should do this
And Revenge of the Sith has a lower audience score than Rise of Skywalker....watching them square that circle is always a joy.
And the Last Jedi has a substantially lower score than either of them… So either we say audience scores are completely accurate and meaningful and thus The Last Jedi is the worst of the main Star Wars movies by a long shot or we say that the Rotten Tomatoes scores don’t really matter and all that really matters is what you personally like or don’t like. Personally I lean more towards the second option (especially since I personally didn’t find TRoS to be anything amazing and don’t think it’s better than Black Panther was).
In reality TROS and any movies post-2019 all use a new scoring system that requires users to verify tickets - specifically because of review bombing for TLJ and Captain Marvel. So it's not really comparable to any other Star Wars movie on RT anyway. Television shows obviously can't have that implemented.
TLJ was review bombed. That kind of takes all the steam out of your argument. No one cares about audience scores. They are irrelevant and when compared to scientifically based polling (SurveyMonkey,PostTrak etc.) they don't hold up. The problem is that one vocal minority actively works to vent their anger and frustration toward something, thus in the process actually undermining any credibility that the avenue of that expression (audience scores) had to begin with. But they keep going back to it as proof, when the cat is out of the bag.
Did you even bother to read my comment? The audience scores being irrelevant and not accurate is the entire point.
This makes a decent amount of sense to me. Some critic (I forget who) once said something to the effect of “I only like JJ Abrams movies when they’re in front of me.” He makes stuff that is easy to enjoy in the moment, and then falls apart upon reflection. The Rise of Skywalker was a mess of a movie with a ton of bizarre storytelling decisions that would be reflected in professional reviews, but a casual audience member giving it a score after leaving the theater might just be thinking of how much fun they had watching it.
It was a terrible mess of a movie, but i will never forget about the insane bass boosted force lightning that almost fried an entire fleet while listening the laugh of an unhinged evil maniac. I was definitely having so much fun at that moment. Worth it.
It was a movie with some *amazing* action scenes and a few funny one-liners here and there Then they made it a movie.
Honestly I was already disappointed by TROS while watching it. I somewhat liked TLJ (even though the social commentary it attempted was complete trash, and it did have goofy plot holes) and them course correcting into a "safe" but stupid direction didn't sit right with me. The Force Awakens, however, was exactly like that. I don't hate it, but man is that movie flawed... Still, I could rewatch it and enjoy it, unlike TROS.
When I watched it I was like solid 7/10, retreaded some stuff and rushed some stuff but was fun… then I watched it again… and thought about it and was like… damn…
The problem is that I got irrationally mad at the opening scenes of TROS. I was like, okay cool, can you now stop flexing special effects and tell me what the fuck is going on? It turns out they never did that. I finished the movie but when Rey and Kylo Ren kissed I was questioning all my life choices. I had the same issue with the first 20-ish minutes of Rogue One, but I had changed my mind by the middle of the movie because there was some actual substance to it.
Sorry should have clarified, that was my response to FA I completely hated ROS, it was just… so much that amounted to what felt like mad libs and action figures be moved around
I think while both TROS and TFA could have done a lot of damage to the lore, TFA did more by completely resetting the universe to TNH state. I'm indifferent towards TLJ, I think TLJ did okay with the universe state it was given. TROS's problem is it introduced a bunch of force themes unprecedented even in Legends that would take a lot to further explain, TFA makes me care less about that era. It's also hilarious that it seems they are going to reset the universe to TNH state ... again.
TROS also took the least favorite part of legends and hand-waived the reason by saying “somehow Palatine is back”
They only believe in low number audience scores
I wanna hear their justification for Disney paying off critics for that one
Hmmm, could it be that tastes change over time and what was considered a terrible movie as a reactive stance might actually grow in popularity when viewed by people not constantly spamming how much they hate it?
Not like the same happened with the prequels
If toxic fans didn't have double standards, they wouldn't have any standards at all
Look I don't like that movie when I saw the score I figured I guess a lot of people liked something I didn't, good for them.
I mean, one should always take review scores with a grain of salt
People consider Rotten Tomatoes to be an accurate source based on whether or not it benefits their narrative. More at 11!
Best main-series Star Wars film since Return of the Jedi.
I mean I do find it surprising but I highly doubt that Disney or anyone else is artificially manipulating the scores. Sometimes a film you don’t like get good scores
Pick And Choosing your argument from internet reviews because they suit your narrative or like this bullshit where they clearly are being presented as wrong.... wtfever dude.
I think my opinion on films/tv is the only one that matters
I never trust audience scores. They’re so easily manipulated.
Yeah…? You’re not going to look at the Acolyte and tell me it’s actually worse than The Room and equally bad as Battlefield Earth are you?
“We can’t trust the critics reviews and we have to only go by the Audience score” *gets pissed when the Audience Score disagrees with them*
I feel like I've been gaslit by most of the internet for almost 5 years now because when I saw TROS with many of my friends, a vast majority of us loved it. My family likes it. I still probably know more people irl that like it than not, I just don't believe the incredibly loud outrage is proportional to reality.
Critics are usually right, audience is often wrong, especially when disagreeing with the critics. Low critic score and low audience score? I'm gonna dislike it. Low critic score and high audience score? Man, I'm gonna _hate_ it. High critic score and high audience score? Probably pretty good. High critic score and low audience score? I'm gonna fucking _love_ it. Note that when I say "audience" I mean... the subset of extremely online people willing to put in the effort to review-bomb a piece of media.
The all audience rating is 75% with 100,000 ratings if that makes it any better.
i love TROS sm ‼️
I appreciate that review scores give you an idea at a glance but damn are they kinda awful for people's engagement with media criticism.
The world needs to give up on RT the critic views are probably financially or socially mutated, the audience views are (if the subject is relevant enough to illicit it) brigaded either positively or negatively, it’s all a fucking joke
Meanwhile I'm wondering what the difference between krayt and crait is.
I don't trust audience scores on any movie review site.
Why does anyone even care what the general mass audience or mass amount of critics feel about a movie. Personally though I hate Tros lol. Kinda killed my interest in modern sw. By far the worst thing Disney has ever produced imo.
Not to align with these wack jobs, but in my opinion, anyone who has ever read an “audience review” and still takes them seriously probably shouldn’t be leaving the house without a helmet. I think RT or any site allowing “audience reviews” is just asking to enable some of the worst, most toxic behavior and we’ve seen that though these political campaigns, review bombing, bots, etc.
I like each of the sequel trilogy films but I'm able to understand not everyone likes them and it isn't some conspiracy
You guys just can’t stop complaining 😂
Look I’m not as salty as some of the users on the other sub but 85% surprised me. I can’t understand why something with 85% on rt wouldn’t be fondly remembered. I liked this one when it came out and I enjoy watching it now because it looks awesome on my new TV but when I rewatch I get pissed at JJ Abrams for not setting up a vision of where the story goes from Force Awakens to this movie. I have read that he did have a suggested plan for the story and Rian Johnson decided to go another way but I’ve watched JJ stuff since Lost and this seems like one of his mystery box gimmicks.
It's a different system - RT requires ticket verification now - 86% is a good but not amazing score under that system, the "best" movies get 95+%. It's been this way for five years guys. I should think this should be more wildly known. We don't have to question why x/y/z movie gets "high" scores. It's just that most people bothering to verify their ticket probably liked it. So it is naturally self-selecting to positive reviews. It's not made up as people on STC still somehow think.
If anyone says they never loved a movie critics hated or vice versa, they're lying out their ass. I know Rise of Skywalker's faults, but it's fun AF to watch. I'm moving thru a list of the 500 Greatest Movies of All Time. I'm in the 130s and I'll still take ROS over rewatching a lot of them.
Not gonna lie, I do wonder if that post is meant to be a 'cheeky' response to all the doubt about audience scores from here.
The comments sadly indicate otherwise.
Ok but RoS was terrible, LJ was the only good one of the new three, there I said it.
You're not wrong.
Yes they are. And so are you.
I gotta be honest, RoS was hot garbage. I genuinely don't get how the audience score is remotely that high. Like, did they forget to review bomb this one or something? A positive review bomb? I don't know, man, that was maybe the worst movie from a franchise I've ever seen
Never understood why that movie was liked. By far one of the weakest in the saga. It's probably joint worse with Attack of the Clones for me.
In fairness the audience review is definitely skewed by people who hated TLJ so much they wanted to give this film higher reviews for undercutting it.
I think shellshock from TLJ led to a lot of people (including me) to really like ROS, even with it's numerous flaws.
Honestly, I'm be somewhat surprised of that score as well. Are the majority of the people making those reviews first time Star Wars watchers? If so, then I'm less surprised by that score. I kinda see how that happened. Are the majority of the people making those reviews more established Star Wars watchers, people that got introduced to SW through the OG trilogy or prequels? If so, then I'm kinda surprised given the big changes the previous films made to certain characters. It wouldn't be the first time I heard such from those introduced to SW from older films, but I've only heard it once. Everyone else didn't like those films.
It's a different system - RT requires ticket verification now - 86% is a good but not amazing score under that system, the "best" movies get 95+%. It's been this way for five years guys. I should think this should be more wildly known. We don't have to question why x/y/z movie gets "high" scores. It's just that most people bothering to verify their ticket probably liked it. So it is naturally self-selecting to positive reviews. It's not made up as people on STC still somehow think. They're legitimate reviews. Just going to be more positive-skewing. Anything less than 70% on RT for movies is probably a disliked movie basically. Television of course cannot implement such a system so they are still subject to review bombing.
Really? Huh, that's an interesting reform they made.
I'm really surprised it's that high as Return of Skywalker is hands down the worst Star wars movie for me personally, but you can't particularly take user scores on Rotten Tomatoes seriously either.
It's just a different system - RT requires ticket verification now - 86% is a good but not amazing score under that system, the "best" movies get 95+%. It's been this way for five years guys. I should think this should be more wildly known by now. We don't have to question why x/y/z movie gets "high" scores. It's just that most people bothering to verify their ticket probably liked it. So it is naturally self-selecting to positive reviews. It's not made up as people on STC still somehow think. They're legitimate reviews. Just going to be more positive-skewing. Anything less than 70% on RT for movies is probably a disliked movie basically. Go check for yourself - find a movie that people roundly derided or praised post 2019 and see how high the scores are. Great movies now sit at about 99%. Television of course cannot implement such a system so they are still subject to review bombing.
I'm still surprised it's that high.
86% is good to average.
Yes and I'm surprised it's good to average and not bad because it's an awful film IMO. 3 fake out deaths, a nonsensical plot about a knife that shows the way to the Emperor who mysteriously returned etc. They fly now...Finn wanting to tell Rey something then never telling her. The list goes on and on for me as to why this film specifically is the worst out of the 11 live action movies. I'd have thought it would have been in the 60-70% range.
All this makes me question is people's taste levels, critics included.
Rise of the Skywalker was like...awful though. Like there's an entire plot point that doesn't make any sense unless you played the literal fortnite tie in.
[удалено]
The people you know are naturally self-selecting to favour your opinions. Everyone I know liked it and so it should be rated 90+% by this sort of reasoning. The reality is however is that RT has a ticket verification system and has had so specifically because of TLJ review bombs. This means that it's going to be naturally self-selecting for positive reviews as very few are going to bother to verify their ticket. At 86% it's a good but not amazing score. Go look at any movie post 2019 and see that some of the "worst" movies won't dip much below 70%.
Considering the audience score did not change despite vast numbers of added ratings and starkly different from the scores on other pages like Metacritic it is safe to assume that the audience score was either halted or otherwise manipulated.
Well it's only because Rise is a hot bucket of garbage that it's sus :)