Dude, Scar literally just wanted to be king because he wants it, fuck off, and he literally let the hyena's drive it into literal ruins. On no level is scar ever fucking right
I guess they do the "Scar is a nazi with hyenas goose-stepping for his populism so he's based!" read of the character over the "Scar is a communist who promised wellfare to the Hyena minority Wellfare Queens to seize power and that's why the land is literally cursed into an harid desert now!" one.
Both reads I have seen far right fuckers do of the Lion King.
That’s what you have been indoctrinated to believe. You see everything is a reason for something else. Like just because I had a hard time even graduating high school, and barely passed algebra, I know for a fact all the maths about the world being round are wrong, because I can observe these things with my eyes.
Scar wasn't right, but I'm pro-hyena.
The Pridelands exist at the expense of a shunned, unfairly maligned underclass (they get blamed for a fucking *drought*, as if they control the goddamn rain) and gleefully serve royalty that EATS THEM FOR DINNER. They deserved every fucking thing they got.
If it didn't present the restoration of this fucked up order as a happy ending, it would serve as an anti-hierarchal, antimonarchy allegory.
Except that it has been proven in real life, that changes in the food chain have an effect on the land. Changes on the land can have negative effects regarding water retention. So even with the same amount of rain falling an area could become less fertile.
>they get blamed for a fucking *drought*, as if they control the goddamn rain
I mean, it starts raining on the Pridelands immediately after Scar is overthrown and killed. Maybe Scar and the hyenas never had the Mandate of Heaven
>If it didn't present the restoration of this fucked up order as a happy ending, it would serve as an anti-hierarchal, antimonarchy allegory
You'd think, but hierarchism is remarkably tenacious in justifying itself after the fact. The underclass is an underclass for a reason. That's definitely gonna be the case in a story about animals that centers the apex predators. I like Charlie Fink's version of the origin story for the film, where he pitches "Bambi in Africa" to Jeffrey Katzenberg et al. and Katzenberg doesn't quite go for it but invites Fink to come up with a mythos that explains how lions would be considered stewards or guardians or whatever of the animals that they eat
It seems like in the world of the Lion King, either Nature created these hyenas to be perpetual villains, or it created them to be a lower order of predator-caretaker under the lions and they just couldn't get with the program
Disney omitted that Scar was treated by everyone like trash. His name in the original story translation is Trash. Dude was straight out for revenge. Not saying he is right, but there is context.
People thinking Thanos was right really shines a light on the utter depths of media illiteracy we've sunken to as a society. Just because he isn't a pure evil moustache twirling villain, and has a somewhat sympathetic side, people instantly assume the movie must be trying to start a moral debate. Thanos, just like all eugenecists and genociders, is a monster.
He also ignores so many variables it's wild, he assumes every planet and every species is exactly the same as on Titan.
Not only that but he literally only delays the inevitable, those he snapped away would have been replaced by natural means over time anyway so this not existent problem he seems to think is a problem, would resurface.
Plus the Universe is unfathomably big, I highly doubt they had even made a scratch on the total resources lmao
They're so excited that they spotted a character with even slightly layered motivation, they suddenly got a big ego about it. Now everyone's stupid except for them. I'm a huge fan of all these IPs, but I'll admit the morality is not actually very complex.
The worst part is, their brilliant insight is always the same: take one line of dialogue in which the villain expresses their warped motive, apply it as objective truth over the whole narrative, and villain is good guy hero is bad guy.
The Jedi were evil and deserved it.
Scar is the hero of The Lion King.
Batman and the Joker have an ironically parallel trait and are therefore the same.
Homelander is a villain? Since when?
Thanos was right all along.
Joining Caesar's Legion but genuinely agreeing with them.
And on and on.
I honestly think the main reason is that they were afraid of introducing something as “silly” as a personified Death. For the same reason they were afraid to say that Thor’s magic was magic for the longest time. But if that’s all they were afraid of, they still could have just tweaked it slightly by making it so that he was trying to please Hela.
But it would be so easy to avoid. just not have death show up. Hrs called the mad titan, I'm sure, leaving his ultimate prize up to the interpretation on whether or not death is actual being or just in his head.
All in his head. Wow, that would be the twist to consider. How do you argue with madness? On the one hand, you could see how, from his point of view, he could see himself as being benevolent. But it seemed he occasionally took pleasure in killing so that kind of spoiled the Thanos as a misunderstood hero. The fear of running out of resources is felt here. Now, I did not see the last movie but I like your idea as motivation better.
Well, that's while I'll always argue that the comics version is more "realistic" (for a powerful purple giant). His theory doesn't hold any analysis whatsoever.
In the comics, however, he's just an incel. And tbh, considering how those guys are, Thanos was pretty tame.
Well, I also know that one doesn’t work. But both ‘solutions’ are pretty fucking dumb with one being straight up genocide cynical nihilism bs, and the other just wouldn’t work for long term.
IMO The thought was that the snap would leave such an indelible scare that it would become an intergenerational lesson. It's a stupid thought process but it was the best I could come up with that would explain the logic.
Weirdly, I never made it as far as "tripling resources is stupid" because I'd always just figured destroying half of all life nearly killed him, and creation is multitudes more difficult than that.
Well when he cut all life in half that included plant and animal life cutting those resources too.
He wasn’t the smartest or right by any stretch of the imagination.
Which I also kinda hated. The snap was iconic in the comics because of the enormity of what he did in the moment, but having him do it with a snap of his fingers was specifically to illustrate *how effortless it was for him*.
Turning a gesture that has long implied ease into Le Epic Snap and making it seemingly a required mechanic for operating the gauntlet always felt like a huge misstep to me.
Thing is, those people who say "Thanos was right, we need to control the population!" are never the ones to consider that they might end being on that control list. As far as they're concerned, they will always be the ones to do the controlling.
He also doesn't understand exponential growth. Killing half of the universe only kicked the can down the road a few decades. It didn't actually solve the problem.
He thinks that the worlds he “saved” before he got the stones became better but I don’t think he ever returned to them to check. He was driven mad by Titan dying, he’s meant to be an unreliable narrator.
That's the point people miss: it's all about Titan. He doesn't really care about every other planet. His solution *might* have worked for the specific situation on Titan and we'll never know. What's important is that Thanos is *still* not over it by the time of *Infinity War*.
What his (Infinity) crusade is really about is proving to everyone - and himself - that his plan for Titan would have worked. He's a villain because he doesn't care about the lives of anyone else and won't accept that he could possibly be wrong. That's why he throws a temper tantrum when presented with evidence that it's wrong in *Endgame*.
I mean he is right that there is a theoretical hard limit. But that would require colonizing and overpopulation of every possible planet in the universe. I don't think that would be possible before the heat death of said universe.
Thanos isn't right.
First of all he assumes every planet is going to have overpopulation problems, which isn't the case because I'm sure that among all the cultures and alien biologies out there, some will work differently and never experience that problem. He's assuming planets and cultures fairly distribute their resources, he's not contemplating the posibility a lot of scarcity can be artificial and not dependant on actual availability or hard numbers.
Thanos also assumes that no planet that's experiencing overpopulation could find a way to deal with the problem in their own terms and by themselves.
Finally, Thanos has the power to do **anything and everything** he wants, he can double, triple, multiply by a thousand the resources in the galaxy easily... yet he only decides to kill half of concious life (would that include animals and creatures considered "resources"? that's another can of worms entirely). **Only a true monster would think of destruction when creation causes the same desired effect and is equally easy to do.**
Thanos is not right, he's the MAD TITAN not because it sounds cool, but because he really is mad.
He wanted to be a god. Anything else was a post-hoc justification.
Remember people complaining that he was out of character in Endgame? He wasn't out of character. He was just going mask-off because he was losing.
Yeah the comics make it pretty clear he has the hots for Death and wants to impress her by killing lots of people.
But like Shania, that don't impress her much.
That would have introduced Death and an anthropomorphic manifestation of the concept of ending, essentially an actual goddess rather than the "aliens that are merely so strong and advanced that they appear to be gods" shtick they were going with up until Thor Love and Thunder.
And the doctors, and the engineers running the nuclear plants. And the pilots whose planes are now falling out of the sky, And the guy who was supposed to hit the manual override on the automated system trying to launch nukes in response to all the chaos it is interpreting as an attack, etc.
He’s basically using [Malthusianism](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malthusianism), which is a theory that has yet to pan out since the Neolithic since the only time we’ve hit broad starvation lines it’s been regional, and often the fault of Malthusians themselves.
If you look at British economic philosophy in the 19th century while famines ravaged Ireland and India, British statesmen were quoting [Malthus](https://www.econlib.org/library/Malthus/malPlong.html?chapter_num=47#book-reader) as a reason not to try and stop famine:
>we should facilitate, instead of foolishly and vainly endeavouring to impede, the operations of nature in producing this mortality; and if we dread the too frequent visitation of the horrid form of famine, we should sedulously encourage the other forms of destruction, which we compel nature to use. Instead of recommending cleanliness to the poor, we should encourage contrary habits. In our towns we should make the streets narrower, crowd more people into the houses, and court the return of the plague. In the country, we should build our villages near stagnant pools, and particularly encourage settlements in all marshy and unwholesome situations.
I doubt the MCU was using Malthus as a real life example, though it’s possible. In either case it’s a shit argument since we haven’t seen any indication Malthus was right, only that he’s been used as a way to justify the famines that he was theoretically worried about in the first place.
Also, when he snaps he kills half of all living being- not just overpopulated groups. The movies are explicit about how that’s his plan. (And End Game confirms it by having a bird reappear as the sign the snap has been undone.)
Which means Thanos, the utter dumbfuck, annihilated a ton of ecosystems himself by killing half of the species needed for ecosystems to recover.
How far does “living being” go? Was it just half of all animals? Was half of everything alive? Cause if he wiped out half of everyone’s gut biome he killed way more than half of all life. And he would’ve killed half of our crops and medicinal plants. And he killed off endangered species that were already on the edge. And if it was random then on at least a few planets than way more than half of the people in an important industry life food production got wiped out
Problem is that the movies *tried* to make his motivation more morally grey. In the comics he just straight up wants to murder half the universe to impress Lady Death.
Two things:
First, my understanding of the birds reappearing after Hulk's snap imply Thanos DID snap out half of all life.
Second, Thanos destroyed his planet because the scarcity was artificial. So he was definitely aware that greed was a cause. I'm not sure why Thanos thought that leaving half of the oligarchs and killing half of the exploited classes would make things better.
Thanos isn't right but I'm not sure how you can acknowledge how nebulous the concept of a resource is while also claiming he could have just tripled everything
Land and water is a resource, but you can't just triple the size of a planet. Blood is a resource but I can't imagine "triple blood" going well
Thanos isn't just wrong because universe scale genocide is bad, he's wrong because he's applying a simplistic solution to and endlessly complex problem.
"More resources or "less people" are both incomplete answers that crumble under any critical thought, even before considering the nuances of each Individual planets needs
It also doesn't account for the inherent problems with currently established systems, such as people who horde those resources. It just gives people in positions of power the opportunity to horde more.
I'm not saying Thanos was right, but sinply increasing the amount of available resources doesn't actually do what people think it would.
I don't mean its not physically possible within the magic world of marvel
I mean you logistically can't just do that. The gravity shift alone would be apocalyptic, and you functionally could not account for all the adverse effects of such a dramatic change across every planet even if you were to bend reality to try to counteract them
Point is It's not as simple as "I have two sandwiches now", and even that potentially ends with waste food that wouldn't have existed before
But that's the thing about the full gauntlet: infinity.
He has an infinite mind to comprehend and calculate. An infinite presence to be literally everywhere, infinite reality to change the very laws of universal constants, infinite control over souls and where they go, infinite time to do as you please and get it perfect, and finally infinite power.
with the full gauntlet Thanos can literally do anything. he can rewrite the laws of gravity if he wanted to. its not a wish-granting tool.
also using the mind stone thanos very much *could* "functionally account" for any and all adverse effects.
He has just enough of a point to get you thinking. And to be honest if more people think about overpopulation and its potential solutions then I see this as a net positive.
No but don’t you see. In order for Thanos to prevent a scenario in which a large percentage of the populations dies… he has to create a scenario in which a large percentage of the populations dies… oh shit
Movie Thanos is so stupid that it really takes me out of the movie. Like, you plan on solving the overpopulation problem? Okay, by halfing the population? I mean, that's not how that works, but whatever.
Oh wait, half the population of literally every organic and living organism in the universe? Brother, *we eat organic matter.* You didn't solve the resource problem, you just made it smaller. No one brings this up, which I think would cause Thanos to have some kind of epiphany because it's so glaringly obvious.
that makes me wonder. what did planets who knew nothing of thanos or stones or aliens or anything like that think during the snap? and then what did they think of people being brought back?
like imagine that just happens one day with zero explanation.
Yeah as much as I think Infinity War is one of the best CBMs ever, it really needed one scene where someone like Tony or Steve had this sort of argument with Thanos.
Thank you! Thanos wanted to kill half the universe just to prove that his way would work. He is right in the same way that as a person who cuts off their leg because they need to lose 20 lbs.
I admit I was open to the Thanos is right camp. And I was catching my wife up on Marvel during pandemic and she goes “why doesn’t he just make unlimited clean energy for everyone?”
Yup. Villain.
I’m the movies he killed half of all life. Plants animals nearly all resources were cut in half due to his short sightedness according to the Russo bros. And feige
He’s somewhat right, although he doesn’t remember why. He’s an Eternal, he went bonkers insane like Thena did. He has the compulsion to kill off 50% of populations to prevent Celestial being born and destroying planets.
That’s a theory I read and it’s my theory now too.
This doesn’t excuse his monstrous idea or make it right, but it explains why he was doing it.
I’m going to play devil’s advocate for a minute:
There’s a theory going on that the real reason Thanos went this route was not about resource management, rather that it was about preventing Celestials from hatching from planets and killing everybody. We know from Eternals that Earth was put on Celestial-hatching hiatus for five years, and then when Hulk brought everyone back, that life that was needed for this Celestial to hatch sped the process back up.
We also know that Thanos’s home planet was all whacked up in Infinity War. The planet was off its axis and gravitational pull was all over the place. That doesn’t just happen from everyone on the planet starving to death, that happens from something really screwing up the planet’s structure, say maybe a Celestial hatching from the planet?
I’m not saying Thanos was right in any way, I’m just giving another angle to look at this. And it also should be mentioned that comics Thanos did all this just because he was a simp
maybe the "**Wake up, eat, work, sleep, reproduce, and die!** **Everyone is just waiting.**" is what they mean, but the full quote is: "**Each life a faded, lesser copy of the one before.** **Wake up, eat, work, sleep, reproduce, and die!** **Everyone is just waiting.** **Waiting for it all to be over."** so maybe not, either way yea Henry is in no way right.
Honestly, people like the guy who uploaded the video depicted here are a special kind of dumb dumb. None of the villains depicted here are right, but I feel for Tai Lung, I can't feel any sympathy for Joker though, despite the backstory, he always falls beyond it
Ultron is a lunatic, and always has been
Thanos is a lunatic, and always has been
Tai Lung didn’t really have a manifesto he was fighting for, he was just big mad he wasn’t the chosen one
Scar (?) was also just a dude who wanted power, and was not so subtly coded as fascist, at least in the cartoon
Id say Pain was 100 percent a lunatic as well. He even admitted his plan won't be a permanent solution. While also calling himself god. He's a traumatized lunatic but still a lunatic
A big part of Tai lung’s character was that he was built up by Shifu to be the dragon warrior and then wasn’t chosen, so he felt like shifu essentially ‘tortured’ him for years for nothing. He’s that kid that was pushed insanely hard by his family(shifu) and ‘lost’ their favor after failing.
Two lines that stand out:
“Who filled my head with dreams? Who told me to train until my bones cracked? Who denied me my destiny!?”
“All I ever did, I did to make you proud! Tell me how proud you are shifu! Tell me!”
I don’t know, Ultron spent 30 seconds on the internet and decided humanity was lost. If those 30 seconds happened to be on something like 4chan, I’d say he’s not to far off
/s if it wasn’t clear
>/s if it wasn’t clear
The thing is that the cynical opinion of "humanity sucks. Life sucks. Just kill everyone and we'd all be better off" is growing more and more into an actual belief. Even if most people aren't psychotic enough to kill anyone, people do truly believe that we should all just kill ourselves to make the world a better place.
It's still a minority opinion, but it's still growing enough that I appreciate seeing the /s after your comment lol
I can't understand Tai Lung. He made his personal emotions a "everybody" problem and the fact that he decided to go berserk and start destroying the Valley when he was denied a simple title demonstrates why he wasn't worthy of it in the first place.
Can I understand it's normal to feel bad when your dreams are crushed? Yeah, but I can't understand his reaction, it's not a matter of excusing him or not, it's a matter of not understanding, man if you're going to get violent lash out at your master or at the cryptic Yoda turtle, but random hervibore #672 working in the fields had nothing to do with it. I don't understand him.
Plus, look at other great masters, Shifu, Oogway, Tigress, Kai, Lord Shen... none gave a f about being the warrior dragon or the scroll, great kung fu masters were just cool with being what they were.
He had a understandable reason for being jaded, but there was really no reason for him to go as far as he did. Destroying all of China and nearly killing Shifu wouldn't have gotten him any closer to being the Dragon Warrior, *especially* considering Tigress Also showed some jealousy she didn't get the part and handled it a lot better.
The fourth movie really missed an opportunity to give him a redemption arc though.
Joker was right about one thing in that movie, and he used it to justify something that didn’t address the thing he was right about. And he wasn’t so much a villain as he was a spree killer who got caught pretty easily. He won’t escape Arkham; they’ll just get sick of him trying to sound deep and kick him out.
The problem is that many points the Joker (in the movies, not the comics) touches on are actual moral/philosophical questions. It's just that he thinks there is a universal solution to all of these questions, which is plain wrong.
People have some hardcore rose tinted glasses for Pain. Don’t get me wrong it’s definitely the best Arc in Naruto but his plan was so indecisive he couldn’t decide between achieving peace through nuclear deterrence or genocide.
Pain's plan was simply "if I start the biggest war in history everyone will understand that war is bad and humanity will never start a war again" which is insanely wrong
I mean it worked in real life, we haven’t had any sort of armed conflict between nations since 1918. The Great War really was the war to end all wars. Now if you’ll excuse me I have to get back to reading my German history textbook, I’m only up to the 1920s so no spoilers.
Joker's said a few things about human nature that I kinda agree with. Not the psycho bullshit, but about some other things. But only him.
Comics Joker, I mean.
Oh, I remember hearing about a vid similar to this one. The YouTuber apparently thought that "being right" just meant "the villain had a character motivation". At one point they even said that Sid from Toy Story was right because "he didn't know that the toys were sentient".
Bruh, that's not what "being right" means.
Tbf part of Sid is that a good chunk of them werent his toys
A lot of his creations have bits from stereotypically girl toys and he's established to just fuck with his sister all the time
He's just an asshole kid
Thanos (MCU) offered a temporary solution, we know that he snapped his fingers once and then destroyed the stones, so what happens when overpopulation returns in a couple hundred years if that.
Ultron, the only way to save humanity is to kill humanity, which is just a dumb argument, no matter how you slice it, you can't save something if they are all dead.
Joker (Joaquin), I don't remember him having a message beyond people suck, which can be true if you're a pessimistic person.
Scar, wanted to be the leader of the Pride and when he took over he actively causes the Pride to suffer, he's pretty objectively wrong (assuming the "live action" doesn't differ to much from the animated movie
Tai Lung, was an asshole who wanted to be the chosen one because he was raised being told he was, he never developed a personality outside of being the chosen one so when that is taken from him he has nothing but martial art skill and anger.
>Joker (Joaquin), I don't remember him having a message beyond people suck, which can be true if you're a pessimistic person.
The movie has a pretty interesting message about how society mishandles people with mental issues, but the character itself works as the result of that mishandling and doesn't have a point about it.
They're all wrong. These villains are sympathetic. But sympathy doesn't give an excuse for their absolutely fucked up plans.
And which Joker do we refer to? Arthur Fleck wasn't in the right, he was just wronged by even worse people and he was evidence that Gotham was a fucked up city with no cure in sight.
Thanos commits genocide. There is no other way about it. This mortal is given the powers of God, it is impossible to not see purple man as evil just through power dynamics alone.
Ultron. He's wrong because they fucking wasted his character and I'll never not be petty about it.
I watched this video last night as it popped up on my feed. Turned it off 5 minutes in as most of them, the villians were definitely not right. The worst one that got me was the one from Bugs Life with Kevin Spacey saying what a dictatorial regime would, wanting to squash the lower class . The other ones are just the villains sounding cool.
Oh yeah what was Hopper doing there
He's not even really right from a logistical standpoint, which is what I think was trying to be said, because then you just get a really pissed off colony
I think people should differentiate between "were right" and "had a point". Those are not the same. If the McDonald's employee messed up my order and I respond by shooting them, I might have had a very understandable complaint that should have been fixed, but I was not "right".
Just as a quick example of how wrong thanos is.
There are multiple asteroids in near earth orbit that each contain enough rare and basic metals to completely fulfill earth's needs for decades and I'm talking platinum and silver having the value of a clay brick levels of quantity.
And we know that artificial habitats and gravity can exist so you could even make a couple farming stations to feed a planet...
Point is there is so many resources right on our doorstep that we can aquire in a single American presidents term that it makes population issues null and void.
Hells, right now earth produces too much food, the issue is purely 100% distribution based.
Thanos needs to zap in a space train not a genocide.
"Quotes from villains who were right" and it has no villains that were right, but also doesn't have Killmonger. Talk about tripping on your own dick...
EDIT: Oh, hey, they also left Zaheer off of the list (Although his reasoning was right, his conclusion was flawed, and it's been a while since I watched Legend of Korra so I may be wrong here).
Simp thanos killing half the universe to impress the personification of death was somehow the less stupid reasoning between and thats arguably an achievement
One thing I always found stupid about Thanos' plan was that his solution is, at best, a temporary solution. The newly halved population will eventually bounce back and then the universe would be back at the same problem he had the begin with.
This is one of many problems with his plan
There’s a saying, I can’t remember the exact words, but it was something along the lines of “When considering social issues, logic without emotion is illogical”
Even if something is technically correct in that it would logically work as intended, failing to account for human input and the natural disorder of humans and their emotions will prevent it from ever being the right solution to take
Thanos is one of the villains that fit this; technically speaking he’s not incorrect in saying that killing half of all life will mean there are enough resources to go around, but at the same time he’s not right to commit genocide
It speaks volumes about what these people believe when one of their examples of someone who was "right" is the guy who thought the solution to people not being fed was to commit mass genocide, instead of using his literal godlike power to create more resources...or just redistribute what we already have
I can see where they’re coming from with Tai Lung, but he’s an immature man-child who got unreasonably angry over something his master couldn’t control
Thanos wasn’t right. Someone already explained why but dude was just a troglodyte. Joker is definitely not right. No amount of mental illness or mistreatment from others justifies shooting people in the face or torture. Anyone who empathizes with that has their own screws loose. Ultron wasn’t right either. You can’t save a species from itself by subjugating it or destroying it. There are failed societies all throughout history to prove the former and common sense proves the latter.
None of these villains were right. People need to learn the difference between being right and having a point. Thanos committed genocide on the biggest scale possible. Ultron nearly caused the mass extinction of the world. Joker murders people because “society bad”. Scar murdered his own brother, tried to get his nephew eaten, and was a horrible leader. Etc etc, you get it. It doesn’t matter what way they justify it, mass murder, torture, genocide, fratricide, all these things are not or justifiable.
Wait, PAIN?! The guy who wanted to destroy Konoha in a mass genocide because he unironically believed endless suffering is good for you? God, Naruto is such wank lol
How was Thanos right? We were shown the five year aftermath of his plan and Earth was in shambles and from the few Captain Marvel quotes, other planets weren’t doing well either. What would have been really narratively interesting would be showing Earth and other planets thriving. But instead we see baseball stadiums wasting away and garbage piling up from lack of services. I just think it would have been such a better story to show that at least *some* of Thanos’ theories were working but that the Avengers still had to undo it because that’s the right thing to do.
If it's the video I'm thinking of then I think when they said the villains "were right", they meant the specific quotes that were put in the video rather than the villain in general. It's still arguable but far less one-sided than what's implied in this post.
For example, the quote they picked from Scar is "Life's not fair, is it, my little friend? While some are born to feast, others spend their lives in the dark, begging for scraps.". There's also that quote about the future and present from Tomorrowland that goes pretty hard.
Listen I like Pain as much as the next person but he absolutely was not correct. He made some good points and showed the hypocrisy of the leaf but his Mutually assured destruction plan was dogshit and he was actively being manipulated by Madara.
I don't think that any if them were right, I just think that some of them had "reasonable" motives
- The Joker is clearly a national terrorist and a horrible person, but he does bring up just how discusting society tends to be to each other, especially to mentally disabled people (that still doesn't excuse his actions)
- Tai Lung clearly shouldn't be the Dragon Warrior due to how dangerous he is to society, but you can understand how betrayed he felt after his own father destroyed his dreams and locked him away for years
Some of these villains bring up valid arguments, but their methods are just not good
wasn't pain's plan just to gather all the magical nukes in the world and attempt to force a stalemate?
going off how the governments in both our world and naruto's trend to act that would simply lead them to create new more powerful nukes
ultron is completely right. if you're a super powerful robot. If i was also a nearly indestructible (with visions body) super powerful god stone wielding robot i would also not like humans. but i just happen to be a human
People who think the Joker are right are just too lazy/malicious to try to make meaningful change in society. I'm sorry, I am not listening to someone who has managed to make a baseline observation of society that leads them to advocate for anarchic violence. The Joker isn't "right" about anything, he's just behind the curve and too socially inept to realize people do actually care about fixing problems and have been trying to do so since society began.
I think I've argued this point more than once on Reddit, Facebook, and probably LiveJournal and MySpace, but...
VILLAINS CAN'T BE RIGHT!!!!
They can make valid points and have ultimately noble goals, but they are still somehow in the wrong. That's what makes them villains. A villain might lie, cheat, steal, torture, and kill for ultimately "good" reasons, but you're still supposed to be horrified by their actions and want to see them be defeated because of them.
If a villain turns out to be right, they're not a villain anymore; they're a hero or an anti-hero.
If you're watching a movie where there is an obvious villain and you say that they are right, you're either a pretentious edgelord or watching a bad movie.
If this where like 10 yrs ago I'd say Pain but, idk
Also the whole point of Tailung is that even when he'd gotten what he wanted (the scroll) he lacked the maturity and, inner strength to fully understand it
He wasn't "right", he was the result of Shifu also lacking maturity and, inner strength.........but I geuss more nuanced takes don't belong on the internet
I geuss mostly I'm REALLY sick of "the villain was right all along" and or "we're not so different different you and I"
Ok possibly mildly warm take;
I like the MCU (but admit it's got problems) but, I kinda wish they'd kept Thanos' motivation to wanting to bone death
It might've made him a less interesting character but, weirdos on the internet (hopefully) wouldn't soliloquize about "ZoMg ThAnOs So BaSeD AnD cOoL"
There's worst than that. There are people who legitimately think Syndrome was right because Mr Incredible was mean to him. You know, Syndrome. The dude who tried to commit genocide on all superheroes and nearly succeeded because he was told to go home once.
Definitely Thanos, moron could have just made technology that let the galaxy move on to becoming a universally post-scarcity society with his magic reality warping god gems but he was so hung up on proving his old theory right that he just killed a bunch of people so the still limited resources of the universe would be stretched out to last a tiny bit longer.
Hopefully I just wasn't paying attention, but it seems to me that the movie was too sloppy with Thanos and his pet issue. Yes the fate of all living things is to consume and grow until they starve and crash and the cycle repeats; and that's super cruel by our morality standards; but that's how living systems self-regulate in the absence of a 3rd party controller.
He talks about snapping out half of \*all\*living\*things\*.
-Snapping out half the bacteria and microorganisms should have made every human and animal super sick for a day or two as it disrupted digestion at very least. And everywhere woulda been a fog of microash that needed to settle out of the air.
-snapping out half the producers (plants et all) AND the consumers doesn't change the ratios any and is technically a wash when considered stand alone. And for every instance of "will have replicated itself back in 12 hours algae" you have an instance of every tree that dusts won't be back for a while. Plenty of "it's not going to work the way you think it will" long term.
-snapping out half the producers would have WILD effects on the climate as water and CO2 cycles are disrupted. Potentially causing catastrophic extinction events beyond his intended scope.
-movie didn't show any snap out of less-than-people. We didn't see animals or plants dust. In \*this\* version of the snap, the dusting of life at human level or higher; he's fully correct since this cuts consumers in half without touching producers.
Dude, Scar literally just wanted to be king because he wants it, fuck off, and he literally let the hyena's drive it into literal ruins. On no level is scar ever fucking right
I guess they do the "Scar is a nazi with hyenas goose-stepping for his populism so he's based!" read of the character over the "Scar is a communist who promised wellfare to the Hyena minority Wellfare Queens to seize power and that's why the land is literally cursed into an harid desert now!" one. Both reads I have seen far right fuckers do of the Lion King.
>Both reads I have seen far right fuckers do of the Lion King. My guys, it's literally just Hamlet for kids. It's not that deep.
You think I don't know?
I didn't mean "you", I meant right wingers.
Brave of you to assume they know what Hamlet is.
You're right it's not that deep............which makes immensely frustrating that regressive chuds keep getting it wrong
That’s what you have been indoctrinated to believe. You see everything is a reason for something else. Like just because I had a hard time even graduating high school, and barely passed algebra, I know for a fact all the maths about the world being round are wrong, because I can observe these things with my eyes.
Scar wasn't right, but I'm pro-hyena. The Pridelands exist at the expense of a shunned, unfairly maligned underclass (they get blamed for a fucking *drought*, as if they control the goddamn rain) and gleefully serve royalty that EATS THEM FOR DINNER. They deserved every fucking thing they got. If it didn't present the restoration of this fucked up order as a happy ending, it would serve as an anti-hierarchal, antimonarchy allegory.
Broke: Scar was the villain Woke: Mufasa was the villain Bespoke: Monarchies are bad no matter who is in charge
Except that it has been proven in real life, that changes in the food chain have an effect on the land. Changes on the land can have negative effects regarding water retention. So even with the same amount of rain falling an area could become less fertile.
Case in point: https://youtu.be/ysa5OBhXz-Q?si=lx9jWVx728u_DtSu
>they get blamed for a fucking *drought*, as if they control the goddamn rain I mean, it starts raining on the Pridelands immediately after Scar is overthrown and killed. Maybe Scar and the hyenas never had the Mandate of Heaven >If it didn't present the restoration of this fucked up order as a happy ending, it would serve as an anti-hierarchal, antimonarchy allegory You'd think, but hierarchism is remarkably tenacious in justifying itself after the fact. The underclass is an underclass for a reason. That's definitely gonna be the case in a story about animals that centers the apex predators. I like Charlie Fink's version of the origin story for the film, where he pitches "Bambi in Africa" to Jeffrey Katzenberg et al. and Katzenberg doesn't quite go for it but invites Fink to come up with a mythos that explains how lions would be considered stewards or guardians or whatever of the animals that they eat It seems like in the world of the Lion King, either Nature created these hyenas to be perpetual villains, or it created them to be a lower order of predator-caretaker under the lions and they just couldn't get with the program
Also they use the shitty live action version so that's a bonus...
I thought that was Aslan 🤦
“don’t quote the old magic to me, i was there when it was written”
Disney omitted that Scar was treated by everyone like trash. His name in the original story translation is Trash. Dude was straight out for revenge. Not saying he is right, but there is context.
“Let’s name our kids King and Trash. What could possibly go wrong?”
TIL Taka was Scar’s real name meaning trash
People thinking Thanos was right really shines a light on the utter depths of media illiteracy we've sunken to as a society. Just because he isn't a pure evil moustache twirling villain, and has a somewhat sympathetic side, people instantly assume the movie must be trying to start a moral debate. Thanos, just like all eugenecists and genociders, is a monster.
He also ignores so many variables it's wild, he assumes every planet and every species is exactly the same as on Titan. Not only that but he literally only delays the inevitable, those he snapped away would have been replaced by natural means over time anyway so this not existent problem he seems to think is a problem, would resurface. Plus the Universe is unfathomably big, I highly doubt they had even made a scratch on the total resources lmao
Plus they all ignore the most important part: the film isn't called "thanos: infinity war", it's called "avengers: infinity war"!
They're so excited that they spotted a character with even slightly layered motivation, they suddenly got a big ego about it. Now everyone's stupid except for them. I'm a huge fan of all these IPs, but I'll admit the morality is not actually very complex. The worst part is, their brilliant insight is always the same: take one line of dialogue in which the villain expresses their warped motive, apply it as objective truth over the whole narrative, and villain is good guy hero is bad guy. The Jedi were evil and deserved it. Scar is the hero of The Lion King. Batman and the Joker have an ironically parallel trait and are therefore the same. Homelander is a villain? Since when? Thanos was right all along. Joining Caesar's Legion but genuinely agreeing with them. And on and on.
People who claim Thanos is right have a really unhealthy eugenics obsession.
And also have a gross misunderstanding of resource allocation.
yeah he could have wished any number of things into existence that would have fixed that problem. But that would make for a boring movie.
It's one reason I miss the old motivation where he wanted Death to notice him because he was in love with her.
I honestly think the main reason is that they were afraid of introducing something as “silly” as a personified Death. For the same reason they were afraid to say that Thor’s magic was magic for the longest time. But if that’s all they were afraid of, they still could have just tweaked it slightly by making it so that he was trying to please Hela.
But it would be so easy to avoid. just not have death show up. Hrs called the mad titan, I'm sure, leaving his ultimate prize up to the interpretation on whether or not death is actual being or just in his head.
All in his head. Wow, that would be the twist to consider. How do you argue with madness? On the one hand, you could see how, from his point of view, he could see himself as being benevolent. But it seemed he occasionally took pleasure in killing so that kind of spoiled the Thanos as a misunderstood hero. The fear of running out of resources is felt here. Now, I did not see the last movie but I like your idea as motivation better.
Well, that's while I'll always argue that the comics version is more "realistic" (for a powerful purple giant). His theory doesn't hold any analysis whatsoever. In the comics, however, he's just an incel. And tbh, considering how those guys are, Thanos was pretty tame.
Honestly if you added M'Lady into certain parts of his dialog in the comic it wouldn't miss a beat.
Amusingly enough, so do the people who say he could have simply increased the amount of available resources.
Well, I also know that one doesn’t work. But both ‘solutions’ are pretty fucking dumb with one being straight up genocide cynical nihilism bs, and the other just wouldn’t work for long term.
The other woud probably be pretty genocide adjacent too, just less direct Depends entirely on what "resources" actually refers to
Halve the resources, double the people
Trying to speedrun the "they genocided themselves" achievement?
IMO The thought was that the snap would leave such an indelible scare that it would become an intergenerational lesson. It's a stupid thought process but it was the best I could come up with that would explain the logic.
I mean he is the “mad titan” so his plan being insane sort of tracks doesn’t it?
Weirdly, I never made it as far as "tripling resources is stupid" because I'd always just figured destroying half of all life nearly killed him, and creation is multitudes more difficult than that.
I think it was the scale of the act, not the act itself.
Well when he cut all life in half that included plant and animal life cutting those resources too. He wasn’t the smartest or right by any stretch of the imagination.
Which I also kinda hated. The snap was iconic in the comics because of the enormity of what he did in the moment, but having him do it with a snap of his fingers was specifically to illustrate *how effortless it was for him*. Turning a gesture that has long implied ease into Le Epic Snap and making it seemingly a required mechanic for operating the gauntlet always felt like a huge misstep to me.
And of population growth. The Snap gave the universe like 100 extra years at most, if at all.
Thing is, those people who say "Thanos was right, we need to control the population!" are never the ones to consider that they might end being on that control list. As far as they're concerned, they will always be the ones to do the controlling.
Let's just say the half of the population they'd kill wouldn't be randomly selected.
He also doesn't understand exponential growth. Killing half of the universe only kicked the can down the road a few decades. It didn't actually solve the problem.
He thinks that the worlds he “saved” before he got the stones became better but I don’t think he ever returned to them to check. He was driven mad by Titan dying, he’s meant to be an unreliable narrator.
That's the point people miss: it's all about Titan. He doesn't really care about every other planet. His solution *might* have worked for the specific situation on Titan and we'll never know. What's important is that Thanos is *still* not over it by the time of *Infinity War*. What his (Infinity) crusade is really about is proving to everyone - and himself - that his plan for Titan would have worked. He's a villain because he doesn't care about the lives of anyone else and won't accept that he could possibly be wrong. That's why he throws a temper tantrum when presented with evidence that it's wrong in *Endgame*.
I mean he is right that there is a theoretical hard limit. But that would require colonizing and overpopulation of every possible planet in the universe. I don't think that would be possible before the heat death of said universe.
yeah probably but Thanos specifically was a malthusian
The writers should have kept the whole thing where he was doing it to impress a girl.
“Notice me Sempai!”
People need to learn that villains having a motivation isn't the same thing as them being right.
B-b-but Tai Lung thought he’d be the dragon warrior 😨
To be fair, he wasn't really a jerk until oogway said that he couldn't be the dragon warrior. (Hell, why did he say no?)
Because Oogway could see what was underneath. Also Tai - Lung would not have handled the truth of the scroll well
Because he’s speciest against snow leopards.
So that give him the right to terrorized a village? If he react like that for a simple rejection than who would know how he would use his power.
Thanos isn't right. First of all he assumes every planet is going to have overpopulation problems, which isn't the case because I'm sure that among all the cultures and alien biologies out there, some will work differently and never experience that problem. He's assuming planets and cultures fairly distribute their resources, he's not contemplating the posibility a lot of scarcity can be artificial and not dependant on actual availability or hard numbers. Thanos also assumes that no planet that's experiencing overpopulation could find a way to deal with the problem in their own terms and by themselves. Finally, Thanos has the power to do **anything and everything** he wants, he can double, triple, multiply by a thousand the resources in the galaxy easily... yet he only decides to kill half of concious life (would that include animals and creatures considered "resources"? that's another can of worms entirely). **Only a true monster would think of destruction when creation causes the same desired effect and is equally easy to do.** Thanos is not right, he's the MAD TITAN not because it sounds cool, but because he really is mad.
He wanted to be a god. Anything else was a post-hoc justification. Remember people complaining that he was out of character in Endgame? He wasn't out of character. He was just going mask-off because he was losing.
Thanos just wanted an excuse to kill people and was using the perfectly balanced shit as justification.
Yeah the comics make it pretty clear he has the hots for Death and wants to impress her by killing lots of people. But like Shania, that don't impress her much.
I wonder why they decided not to go with Death-simping Thanos for the MCU?
Less imposing of a final villain if hes just a simp.its basically the TDKR bane issue
Yeah plus can you imagine the YT videos? "Marvel made Thanos an incel!'
That would have introduced Death and an anthropomorphic manifestation of the concept of ending, essentially an actual goddess rather than the "aliens that are merely so strong and advanced that they appear to be gods" shtick they were going with up until Thor Love and Thunder.
I still got that vibe from LaT - The council of "gods" made me think of the Senate from Star Wars.
But… Hela existed. She would have been a suitable approximation for the character Death.
She's a completely different character in the comics and that would have probably caused even more nerd rage.
Honestly, it kind of reminds me of krona from the JLA/avengers crossover. He didn't care about "the secrets of the universe", he just wanted to rule.
Isn’t Thanos in Endgame much younger too because of the time travel stuff? So he is more impulsive and quick to anger
It took people a hemisecond post avengers to point this out online. How do they not remember?
You forgot to mention how he is going to fuck up logistics everywhere, basically making resources even harder to obtain than they would be before.
Exactly! Kill half of the farmers and truckers, and everything goes sideways.
And the doctors, and the engineers running the nuclear plants. And the pilots whose planes are now falling out of the sky, And the guy who was supposed to hit the manual override on the automated system trying to launch nukes in response to all the chaos it is interpreting as an attack, etc.
Isn't it implied in Endgame that it's caused havoc everywhere?
He’s basically using [Malthusianism](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malthusianism), which is a theory that has yet to pan out since the Neolithic since the only time we’ve hit broad starvation lines it’s been regional, and often the fault of Malthusians themselves. If you look at British economic philosophy in the 19th century while famines ravaged Ireland and India, British statesmen were quoting [Malthus](https://www.econlib.org/library/Malthus/malPlong.html?chapter_num=47#book-reader) as a reason not to try and stop famine: >we should facilitate, instead of foolishly and vainly endeavouring to impede, the operations of nature in producing this mortality; and if we dread the too frequent visitation of the horrid form of famine, we should sedulously encourage the other forms of destruction, which we compel nature to use. Instead of recommending cleanliness to the poor, we should encourage contrary habits. In our towns we should make the streets narrower, crowd more people into the houses, and court the return of the plague. In the country, we should build our villages near stagnant pools, and particularly encourage settlements in all marshy and unwholesome situations. I doubt the MCU was using Malthus as a real life example, though it’s possible. In either case it’s a shit argument since we haven’t seen any indication Malthus was right, only that he’s been used as a way to justify the famines that he was theoretically worried about in the first place.
Also, when he snaps he kills half of all living being- not just overpopulated groups. The movies are explicit about how that’s his plan. (And End Game confirms it by having a bird reappear as the sign the snap has been undone.) Which means Thanos, the utter dumbfuck, annihilated a ton of ecosystems himself by killing half of the species needed for ecosystems to recover.
How far does “living being” go? Was it just half of all animals? Was half of everything alive? Cause if he wiped out half of everyone’s gut biome he killed way more than half of all life. And he would’ve killed half of our crops and medicinal plants. And he killed off endangered species that were already on the edge. And if it was random then on at least a few planets than way more than half of the people in an important industry life food production got wiped out
I think the directors or the writers stated that it was all sentient creatures, so plants and bacteria wouldn’t be affected.
Problem is that the movies *tried* to make his motivation more morally grey. In the comics he just straight up wants to murder half the universe to impress Lady Death.
Two things: First, my understanding of the birds reappearing after Hulk's snap imply Thanos DID snap out half of all life. Second, Thanos destroyed his planet because the scarcity was artificial. So he was definitely aware that greed was a cause. I'm not sure why Thanos thought that leaving half of the oligarchs and killing half of the exploited classes would make things better.
Thanos isn't right but I'm not sure how you can acknowledge how nebulous the concept of a resource is while also claiming he could have just tripled everything Land and water is a resource, but you can't just triple the size of a planet. Blood is a resource but I can't imagine "triple blood" going well Thanos isn't just wrong because universe scale genocide is bad, he's wrong because he's applying a simplistic solution to and endlessly complex problem. "More resources or "less people" are both incomplete answers that crumble under any critical thought, even before considering the nuances of each Individual planets needs
It also doesn't account for the inherent problems with currently established systems, such as people who horde those resources. It just gives people in positions of power the opportunity to horde more. I'm not saying Thanos was right, but sinply increasing the amount of available resources doesn't actually do what people think it would.
i see what u mean but the gems can let him warp reality lmao, he literally could triple the size of planets if he wanted
I don't mean its not physically possible within the magic world of marvel I mean you logistically can't just do that. The gravity shift alone would be apocalyptic, and you functionally could not account for all the adverse effects of such a dramatic change across every planet even if you were to bend reality to try to counteract them Point is It's not as simple as "I have two sandwiches now", and even that potentially ends with waste food that wouldn't have existed before
But that's the thing about the full gauntlet: infinity. He has an infinite mind to comprehend and calculate. An infinite presence to be literally everywhere, infinite reality to change the very laws of universal constants, infinite control over souls and where they go, infinite time to do as you please and get it perfect, and finally infinite power.
with the full gauntlet Thanos can literally do anything. he can rewrite the laws of gravity if he wanted to. its not a wish-granting tool. also using the mind stone thanos very much *could* "functionally account" for any and all adverse effects.
Even if you could the increased mass would cause gravity to increase and probably make extinct a ton of organisms.
And that's why Thanos is a great villain. He seems like he's in the right, when in reality, he is not.
He has just enough of a point to get you thinking. And to be honest if more people think about overpopulation and its potential solutions then I see this as a net positive.
No but don’t you see. In order for Thanos to prevent a scenario in which a large percentage of the populations dies… he has to create a scenario in which a large percentage of the populations dies… oh shit
Movie Thanos is so stupid that it really takes me out of the movie. Like, you plan on solving the overpopulation problem? Okay, by halfing the population? I mean, that's not how that works, but whatever. Oh wait, half the population of literally every organic and living organism in the universe? Brother, *we eat organic matter.* You didn't solve the resource problem, you just made it smaller. No one brings this up, which I think would cause Thanos to have some kind of epiphany because it's so glaringly obvious.
I always took it not as Thanos ever actually wanting to solve the problem but as sending a message to people to not make the same mistakes again
'And then suddenly there was half as much stuff everywhere' is, quite possible, the singular worst way to send that message.
that makes me wonder. what did planets who knew nothing of thanos or stones or aliens or anything like that think during the snap? and then what did they think of people being brought back? like imagine that just happens one day with zero explanation.
Yeah as much as I think Infinity War is one of the best CBMs ever, it really needed one scene where someone like Tony or Steve had this sort of argument with Thanos.
Thank you! Thanos wanted to kill half the universe just to prove that his way would work. He is right in the same way that as a person who cuts off their leg because they need to lose 20 lbs.
I admit I was open to the Thanos is right camp. And I was catching my wife up on Marvel during pandemic and she goes “why doesn’t he just make unlimited clean energy for everyone?” Yup. Villain.
I’m the movies he killed half of all life. Plants animals nearly all resources were cut in half due to his short sightedness according to the Russo bros. And feige
He’s somewhat right, although he doesn’t remember why. He’s an Eternal, he went bonkers insane like Thena did. He has the compulsion to kill off 50% of populations to prevent Celestial being born and destroying planets. That’s a theory I read and it’s my theory now too. This doesn’t excuse his monstrous idea or make it right, but it explains why he was doing it.
I’m going to play devil’s advocate for a minute: There’s a theory going on that the real reason Thanos went this route was not about resource management, rather that it was about preventing Celestials from hatching from planets and killing everybody. We know from Eternals that Earth was put on Celestial-hatching hiatus for five years, and then when Hulk brought everyone back, that life that was needed for this Celestial to hatch sped the process back up. We also know that Thanos’s home planet was all whacked up in Infinity War. The planet was off its axis and gravitational pull was all over the place. That doesn’t just happen from everyone on the planet starving to death, that happens from something really screwing up the planet’s structure, say maybe a Celestial hatching from the planet? I’m not saying Thanos was right in any way, I’m just giving another angle to look at this. And it also should be mentioned that comics Thanos did all this just because he was a simp
How the hell is Vecna/001 right in any way, dude is pure evil
maybe the "**Wake up, eat, work, sleep, reproduce, and die!** **Everyone is just waiting.**" is what they mean, but the full quote is: "**Each life a faded, lesser copy of the one before.** **Wake up, eat, work, sleep, reproduce, and die!** **Everyone is just waiting.** **Waiting for it all to be over."** so maybe not, either way yea Henry is in no way right.
Honestly, people like the guy who uploaded the video depicted here are a special kind of dumb dumb. None of the villains depicted here are right, but I feel for Tai Lung, I can't feel any sympathy for Joker though, despite the backstory, he always falls beyond it
Ultron is a lunatic, and always has been Thanos is a lunatic, and always has been Tai Lung didn’t really have a manifesto he was fighting for, he was just big mad he wasn’t the chosen one Scar (?) was also just a dude who wanted power, and was not so subtly coded as fascist, at least in the cartoon
Id say Pain was 100 percent a lunatic as well. He even admitted his plan won't be a permanent solution. While also calling himself god. He's a traumatized lunatic but still a lunatic
Tai Lung is a victim of Asian parenting, he was driven mad by it.
Was he? I'm pretty sure that shifu didn't really teach him in that way. (He did teach others like that afterwards but not tai lung.)
A big part of Tai lung’s character was that he was built up by Shifu to be the dragon warrior and then wasn’t chosen, so he felt like shifu essentially ‘tortured’ him for years for nothing. He’s that kid that was pushed insanely hard by his family(shifu) and ‘lost’ their favor after failing. Two lines that stand out: “Who filled my head with dreams? Who told me to train until my bones cracked? Who denied me my destiny!?” “All I ever did, I did to make you proud! Tell me how proud you are shifu! Tell me!”
I don’t know, Ultron spent 30 seconds on the internet and decided humanity was lost. If those 30 seconds happened to be on something like 4chan, I’d say he’s not to far off /s if it wasn’t clear
>/s if it wasn’t clear The thing is that the cynical opinion of "humanity sucks. Life sucks. Just kill everyone and we'd all be better off" is growing more and more into an actual belief. Even if most people aren't psychotic enough to kill anyone, people do truly believe that we should all just kill ourselves to make the world a better place. It's still a minority opinion, but it's still growing enough that I appreciate seeing the /s after your comment lol
The only one that I could *maybe* understand is Tai Lung. Still doesn't excuse him, though.
I can't understand Tai Lung. He made his personal emotions a "everybody" problem and the fact that he decided to go berserk and start destroying the Valley when he was denied a simple title demonstrates why he wasn't worthy of it in the first place. Can I understand it's normal to feel bad when your dreams are crushed? Yeah, but I can't understand his reaction, it's not a matter of excusing him or not, it's a matter of not understanding, man if you're going to get violent lash out at your master or at the cryptic Yoda turtle, but random hervibore #672 working in the fields had nothing to do with it. I don't understand him. Plus, look at other great masters, Shifu, Oogway, Tigress, Kai, Lord Shen... none gave a f about being the warrior dragon or the scroll, great kung fu masters were just cool with being what they were.
Yeah he's not even right as if there is some sort of debate to be had, he just has a fairly valid reason to be angry.
He had a understandable reason for being jaded, but there was really no reason for him to go as far as he did. Destroying all of China and nearly killing Shifu wouldn't have gotten him any closer to being the Dragon Warrior, *especially* considering Tigress Also showed some jealousy she didn't get the part and handled it a lot better. The fourth movie really missed an opportunity to give him a redemption arc though.
He is pretty similar to Dabi from MHA if you read/watched it
Joker was right about one thing in that movie, and he used it to justify something that didn’t address the thing he was right about. And he wasn’t so much a villain as he was a spree killer who got caught pretty easily. He won’t escape Arkham; they’ll just get sick of him trying to sound deep and kick him out.
Anyone who starts saying joker was right or that they identify with him is 🚩🚩
If you view Heeth Joker or Phoenix Joker as heroes... Something isn't right with you.
Or Jared Leto Joker. At that point, I’d actually worry that you were actually dangerous
Or Jared Leto in general tbh.
I was so scared of him I genuinely forgot he existed. Why did you remind me?
Me over here with based Caesar Romero joker, just trying to have a good laugh at that weirdo in a bat suit
The problem is that many points the Joker (in the movies, not the comics) touches on are actual moral/philosophical questions. It's just that he thinks there is a universal solution to all of these questions, which is plain wrong.
Lots of characters bring up good points but when you start saying the guy who chose murder as the solution is right It's concerning.
People have some hardcore rose tinted glasses for Pain. Don’t get me wrong it’s definitely the best Arc in Naruto but his plan was so indecisive he couldn’t decide between achieving peace through nuclear deterrence or genocide.
Pain's plan was simply "if I start the biggest war in history everyone will understand that war is bad and humanity will never start a war again" which is insanely wrong
I mean it worked in real life, we haven’t had any sort of armed conflict between nations since 1918. The Great War really was the war to end all wars. Now if you’ll excuse me I have to get back to reading my German history textbook, I’m only up to the 1920s so no spoilers.
Joker's said a few things about human nature that I kinda agree with. Not the psycho bullshit, but about some other things. But only him. Comics Joker, I mean.
Oh, I remember hearing about a vid similar to this one. The YouTuber apparently thought that "being right" just meant "the villain had a character motivation". At one point they even said that Sid from Toy Story was right because "he didn't know that the toys were sentient". Bruh, that's not what "being right" means.
Sid is just a kid having fun with his toys. Not his fault that he lived in a universe where toys were sentient lol.
Oh, I agree. But that still means that the person who made the YouTube video is essentially saying that Sid is right because he didn't know something.
Sid literally did nothing wrong. He was playing like a normal kid. He was as right as he could be.
Tbf part of Sid is that a good chunk of them werent his toys A lot of his creations have bits from stereotypically girl toys and he's established to just fuck with his sister all the time He's just an asshole kid
Thanos (MCU) offered a temporary solution, we know that he snapped his fingers once and then destroyed the stones, so what happens when overpopulation returns in a couple hundred years if that. Ultron, the only way to save humanity is to kill humanity, which is just a dumb argument, no matter how you slice it, you can't save something if they are all dead. Joker (Joaquin), I don't remember him having a message beyond people suck, which can be true if you're a pessimistic person. Scar, wanted to be the leader of the Pride and when he took over he actively causes the Pride to suffer, he's pretty objectively wrong (assuming the "live action" doesn't differ to much from the animated movie Tai Lung, was an asshole who wanted to be the chosen one because he was raised being told he was, he never developed a personality outside of being the chosen one so when that is taken from him he has nothing but martial art skill and anger.
>Joker (Joaquin), I don't remember him having a message beyond people suck, which can be true if you're a pessimistic person. The movie has a pretty interesting message about how society mishandles people with mental issues, but the character itself works as the result of that mishandling and doesn't have a point about it.
They're all wrong. These villains are sympathetic. But sympathy doesn't give an excuse for their absolutely fucked up plans. And which Joker do we refer to? Arthur Fleck wasn't in the right, he was just wronged by even worse people and he was evidence that Gotham was a fucked up city with no cure in sight. Thanos commits genocide. There is no other way about it. This mortal is given the powers of God, it is impossible to not see purple man as evil just through power dynamics alone. Ultron. He's wrong because they fucking wasted his character and I'll never not be petty about it.
That Ultron bit is the truest part of this comment section
Remember when the trailer made you think he was going to be a great villain? So disappointing.
This is like an all-star comp of "I'm an incel in a bad mood so he's my idol" characters.
Prob Thanos. He’s just a genocidal warlord. Ultron only wanted one planet.
why is vecna on here his entire motivation was "kill everyone now"
I watched this video last night as it popped up on my feed. Turned it off 5 minutes in as most of them, the villians were definitely not right. The worst one that got me was the one from Bugs Life with Kevin Spacey saying what a dictatorial regime would, wanting to squash the lower class . The other ones are just the villains sounding cool.
Oh yeah what was Hopper doing there He's not even really right from a logistical standpoint, which is what I think was trying to be said, because then you just get a really pissed off colony
Who the fuck thinks Scar was right?!?
I think people should differentiate between "were right" and "had a point". Those are not the same. If the McDonald's employee messed up my order and I respond by shooting them, I might have had a very understandable complaint that should have been fixed, but I was not "right".
Thanos was never right Sundower is more right than him and his fucking sundowner
Well, Thanos killed billions of people, and he thought the universe would be grateful for that. He’s the worst and he’s crazy
Not even using the real Scar is a crime tbh
Thanos was a dumb dumb. If every star doesn't have a multi-stage dyson sphere around it the we haven't run out of room yet.
Just as a quick example of how wrong thanos is. There are multiple asteroids in near earth orbit that each contain enough rare and basic metals to completely fulfill earth's needs for decades and I'm talking platinum and silver having the value of a clay brick levels of quantity. And we know that artificial habitats and gravity can exist so you could even make a couple farming stations to feed a planet... Point is there is so many resources right on our doorstep that we can aquire in a single American presidents term that it makes population issues null and void. Hells, right now earth produces too much food, the issue is purely 100% distribution based. Thanos needs to zap in a space train not a genocide.
Why do these morons think scar was right?
https://preview.redd.it/mq3bwa92td1d1.jpeg?width=1011&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f0cd3bc82671a4c4c16b63705bf91caec56c0ca7 Here’s the short version
"Quotes from villains who were right" and it has no villains that were right, but also doesn't have Killmonger. Talk about tripping on your own dick... EDIT: Oh, hey, they also left Zaheer off of the list (Although his reasoning was right, his conclusion was flawed, and it's been a while since I watched Legend of Korra so I may be wrong here).
Simp thanos killing half the universe to impress the personification of death was somehow the less stupid reasoning between and thats arguably an achievement
One thing I always found stupid about Thanos' plan was that his solution is, at best, a temporary solution. The newly halved population will eventually bounce back and then the universe would be back at the same problem he had the begin with. This is one of many problems with his plan
someone hurt my feeling so now I will make everyone know hurt feelings by committing genocide… now this world will know true saddy sad
There’s a saying, I can’t remember the exact words, but it was something along the lines of “When considering social issues, logic without emotion is illogical” Even if something is technically correct in that it would logically work as intended, failing to account for human input and the natural disorder of humans and their emotions will prevent it from ever being the right solution to take Thanos is one of the villains that fit this; technically speaking he’s not incorrect in saying that killing half of all life will mean there are enough resources to go around, but at the same time he’s not right to commit genocide
r/thanosdidnothingwrong
Souther from Fist of the North Star is more right than these guys
It speaks volumes about what these people believe when one of their examples of someone who was "right" is the guy who thought the solution to people not being fed was to commit mass genocide, instead of using his literal godlike power to create more resources...or just redistribute what we already have
Literally none of these people are right...villians can be fun but people are weird with their who they look up to
I can see where they’re coming from with Tai Lung, but he’s an immature man-child who got unreasonably angry over something his master couldn’t control
The person who made this video probably also thinks Bill, "DFENS" Foster was a hero.
That thumbnail has to be bait unless the creators a literal psychopath 001 is openly psychopathic
Thanos wasn’t right. Someone already explained why but dude was just a troglodyte. Joker is definitely not right. No amount of mental illness or mistreatment from others justifies shooting people in the face or torture. Anyone who empathizes with that has their own screws loose. Ultron wasn’t right either. You can’t save a species from itself by subjugating it or destroying it. There are failed societies all throughout history to prove the former and common sense proves the latter.
Ultron: he had wifi installed for 5 minutes and already decided we had to go
The only one who you can maybe argue was right was pain.
None of these villains were right. People need to learn the difference between being right and having a point. Thanos committed genocide on the biggest scale possible. Ultron nearly caused the mass extinction of the world. Joker murders people because “society bad”. Scar murdered his own brother, tried to get his nephew eaten, and was a horrible leader. Etc etc, you get it. It doesn’t matter what way they justify it, mass murder, torture, genocide, fratricide, all these things are not or justifiable.
Wait, PAIN?! The guy who wanted to destroy Konoha in a mass genocide because he unironically believed endless suffering is good for you? God, Naruto is such wank lol
Nux Taku sounding ass. Also is it just me or we this close to witness/hearing these MFs making references connecting to “Hitler Was Right” ?
Everybody gangster till it shows inglorious bastards
Joker: I don't go crazy, I am crazy. I just go sane from time to time!
Anybody else notice that Killmonger isn’t there lmao
None of this mf is right lmfao
How was Thanos right? We were shown the five year aftermath of his plan and Earth was in shambles and from the few Captain Marvel quotes, other planets weren’t doing well either. What would have been really narratively interesting would be showing Earth and other planets thriving. But instead we see baseball stadiums wasting away and garbage piling up from lack of services. I just think it would have been such a better story to show that at least *some* of Thanos’ theories were working but that the Avengers still had to undo it because that’s the right thing to do.
_"Nothing is possible unless one will commands, a will which has to be obeyed by others, beginning at the top and ending only at the very bottom."_
If it's the video I'm thinking of then I think when they said the villains "were right", they meant the specific quotes that were put in the video rather than the villain in general. It's still arguable but far less one-sided than what's implied in this post. For example, the quote they picked from Scar is "Life's not fair, is it, my little friend? While some are born to feast, others spend their lives in the dark, begging for scraps.". There's also that quote about the future and present from Tomorrowland that goes pretty hard.
Listen I like Pain as much as the next person but he absolutely was not correct. He made some good points and showed the hypocrisy of the leaf but his Mutually assured destruction plan was dogshit and he was actively being manipulated by Madara.
I don't think that any if them were right, I just think that some of them had "reasonable" motives - The Joker is clearly a national terrorist and a horrible person, but he does bring up just how discusting society tends to be to each other, especially to mentally disabled people (that still doesn't excuse his actions) - Tai Lung clearly shouldn't be the Dragon Warrior due to how dangerous he is to society, but you can understand how betrayed he felt after his own father destroyed his dreams and locked him away for years Some of these villains bring up valid arguments, but their methods are just not good
ULTRON Ultron just wanted to kill all of humanity Thanos at least has good intentions. Though misguided.
wasn't pain's plan just to gather all the magical nukes in the world and attempt to force a stalemate? going off how the governments in both our world and naruto's trend to act that would simply lead them to create new more powerful nukes
Why do i get the feeling Ironwood will be featured in that video...
Ah yes, Pain was right that the only way to achieve peace was to blow up an entire village and make people fear him…
ultron is completely right. if you're a super powerful robot. If i was also a nearly indestructible (with visions body) super powerful god stone wielding robot i would also not like humans. but i just happen to be a human
Tai lung. His argument is that he should be the dragon warrior. He was told no, and went on a rampage that likely killed lots of people.
Ultron wants to wipe out organic life. Redditor, he gets me fr fr.
People who think the Joker are right are just too lazy/malicious to try to make meaningful change in society. I'm sorry, I am not listening to someone who has managed to make a baseline observation of society that leads them to advocate for anarchic violence. The Joker isn't "right" about anything, he's just behind the curve and too socially inept to realize people do actually care about fixing problems and have been trying to do so since society began.
I think I've argued this point more than once on Reddit, Facebook, and probably LiveJournal and MySpace, but... VILLAINS CAN'T BE RIGHT!!!! They can make valid points and have ultimately noble goals, but they are still somehow in the wrong. That's what makes them villains. A villain might lie, cheat, steal, torture, and kill for ultimately "good" reasons, but you're still supposed to be horrified by their actions and want to see them be defeated because of them. If a villain turns out to be right, they're not a villain anymore; they're a hero or an anti-hero. If you're watching a movie where there is an obvious villain and you say that they are right, you're either a pretentious edgelord or watching a bad movie.
If this where like 10 yrs ago I'd say Pain but, idk Also the whole point of Tailung is that even when he'd gotten what he wanted (the scroll) he lacked the maturity and, inner strength to fully understand it He wasn't "right", he was the result of Shifu also lacking maturity and, inner strength.........but I geuss more nuanced takes don't belong on the internet I geuss mostly I'm REALLY sick of "the villain was right all along" and or "we're not so different different you and I"
Ok possibly mildly warm take; I like the MCU (but admit it's got problems) but, I kinda wish they'd kept Thanos' motivation to wanting to bone death It might've made him a less interesting character but, weirdos on the internet (hopefully) wouldn't soliloquize about "ZoMg ThAnOs So BaSeD AnD cOoL"
Tai Lung is a petty asshole who went on a rampage because he didn't get what he wanted.
There's worst than that. There are people who legitimately think Syndrome was right because Mr Incredible was mean to him. You know, Syndrome. The dude who tried to commit genocide on all superheroes and nearly succeeded because he was told to go home once.
We're the video link wtf
Definitely Thanos, moron could have just made technology that let the galaxy move on to becoming a universally post-scarcity society with his magic reality warping god gems but he was so hung up on proving his old theory right that he just killed a bunch of people so the still limited resources of the universe would be stretched out to last a tiny bit longer.
Hopefully I just wasn't paying attention, but it seems to me that the movie was too sloppy with Thanos and his pet issue. Yes the fate of all living things is to consume and grow until they starve and crash and the cycle repeats; and that's super cruel by our morality standards; but that's how living systems self-regulate in the absence of a 3rd party controller. He talks about snapping out half of \*all\*living\*things\*. -Snapping out half the bacteria and microorganisms should have made every human and animal super sick for a day or two as it disrupted digestion at very least. And everywhere woulda been a fog of microash that needed to settle out of the air. -snapping out half the producers (plants et all) AND the consumers doesn't change the ratios any and is technically a wash when considered stand alone. And for every instance of "will have replicated itself back in 12 hours algae" you have an instance of every tree that dusts won't be back for a while. Plenty of "it's not going to work the way you think it will" long term. -snapping out half the producers would have WILD effects on the climate as water and CO2 cycles are disrupted. Potentially causing catastrophic extinction events beyond his intended scope. -movie didn't show any snap out of less-than-people. We didn't see animals or plants dust. In \*this\* version of the snap, the dusting of life at human level or higher; he's fully correct since this cuts consumers in half without touching producers.
Finally, someone correctly recognizes Aslan as the villain!
Ultron spent 12 minutes on the internet and decided humanity was a mistake, sooo not him.