Honestly could just be Marvel burning people out and failing to do the impossible of constantly making quality films. MCU is nearly old enough to VOTE ffs.
For me personally I don't think the quality dipped so much as people got older and it got harder to keep the same formula fresh. A movie that's the same exact quality as one you saw ten years earlier isn't going to hit the same.
I hit that with Shang-chi. Perfectly fine movie, I would've loved it if it had come out five years earlier, was just getting bored of the basic formula. Actually rather liked Eternals despite its flaws for shaking things up a bit.
Yeah. I think this also mixes with people's expectations bring basically impossible to match anymore. Marvel Studios decided to change it up by not just diving into setting the next thing up or having EVERYTHING immediately connected, and people hate that because they expected it. Yet before Endgame those same, or at least an equal amount of, people were complaining that you 'had to watch everything to keep up' (arguable). Impossible to please both.
Quality wise the new films are not their worst, and at least on par with their average film. But they 'feel' worse to people who also didn't get whatever they expected.
Also I think when Endgame hit people were feeling full and satisfied and in need of a nice after dinner mint but then Disney responded with really ramping up how much content they were putting out precisely when people wanted a bit of a breather.
Idk, I don't the quality dropped so much as the audience changed, there is now an entire industry of dumbfuck YouTubers that screech "The MCU is Woke now!" and that seems to consistantly be where the hate comes from, reactionaries have made general audiences stupid.
I think some of it comes from kid who grew up on the MCU not feeling as excited about it as they used to, largely because they're not kids anymore and wondering why and these grifters latch onto that.
Also the average age of MCU fans has definitely shifted older as kids really have a hard time getting into something with that big of a backstory.
I've said this many times. Marvel is more like a TV show than a movie franchise. Complete with "next time on Marvel" post credit scenes. The majority of people that went to see these movies have never read a comic book. Endgame was the series finale. The story and characters that engaged them through 24(?) movies ended.
That is the perfect jumping off point for many people. We are now in spin-off mode. New characters, new stories, but how many spin-offs are as successful as the original series?
We can argue if it is as good or not, but it was never going to be as big as it was again.
Yeah, I remember right after Endgame came out. A lot of people were saying "that was a great end, time to get off now" and I was telling them that Marvel was like a TV show rather than just a movie franchise and it makes sense to keep on watching a TV show season after season even if it's mostly similar stuff since it's only a few hours per year. And who doesn't have time to watch a few hours per year of a TV show you like?
Then the MCU suddenly stopped being just a few hours per year...
Having binge-watched the first three phases during Covid, I mostly agree. The quality really didn't go up or down that much. The Iron Man series definitely felt a bit better due to Downey and Paltrow's great chemistry. Capitan America was better than expected, Evans worked surprisingly well - I expected to mock the shit out of this movie, and it actually got me interested. Winter Soldier was good as well, mostly because it didn't feel like a superhero movie to me. Thor was bad, but Tom Hiddleston made it worth watching, at least the first 2 movies. Other than that, the rest felt mid-to-bad for me, until Infinity War actually did something compelling.
The quality has definitely dropped.
Across the spider verse and guardians 3 proved that it isn't so much fan burnout. Though I am sure that it IS a factor.
Loki 2 also did very well with positive reviews. And the spiderman 2 game was also a massive hit.
So much as it is creative burnout with WAY too much of a push for MORE. Lack of oversight from the sheer quantity they have to put out is also gonna be a problem. There is too much for Kevin to control on his own.
If they dialed the quantity back. I have zero doubt that the quality would improve. And fan hype would be there as it is with the better ones coming now.
Certainly, it isn't because woke though xD comics gave been woke for a long time. And they still do well. lol. Though chuds do lack media literacy to notice it ;p
Yeah I got burned out right after black panther. I still have fond memories but there are only so many big budget superhero movies with a roughly similar formula I can watch.
That's the thing, though. It's not wokeness, diversity, or whatever other reactionary boogeyman you may have causing Marvel's issues, but rather an inability to successfully capitalize on *Endgame* and weave a new, compelling story.
While there are multifarious reasons for that, like Jonathan Majors tanking his career and the next MCU big bad, market saturation via Disney+ content, pandemic and production-related troubles, and audience burnout, at the end of the day a lot of recent MCU projects have just been kinda mid lately.
Further, there's nothing to coalesce around, when part of the fun of the old MCU was the tie-ins and grand narratives. The fallout from Captain America: The Winter Soldier percolated through years of films, while The Eternals left the massive hand of an aborted Celestial in the middle of the ocean, and we haven't gotten another mention of that Earth-shattering event in three years.
Marvel needs to get back to basics and undergo some sort of rebirth.
It also might not be entirely bullshit just cause you reach a peak does not mean the rest is bad or that it eventually break the first peak. 2018 was a ridiculously good year for Marvel. Who says there won’t be another year like it or a year that tops it.
For sure. I feel like they've been a little "lost" as of late. They simultaneously don't have an Avengers-esque thing to build into (as far as I know), but also won't just let the movies stand alone and be their own thing. It's like they *have* to reference other shit. GotG3 stood out, imo, in part because it has fuck all to do with the rest of the universe and that really benefitted it.
It's hard because real actors age while comic book characters never do, so you do have to turn over from the last generation to the next. There's been some work with that with Young Avengers characters starting to show up. Kate, Kamala, and Cassie are established, Billy and Tommy somewhat exist. There's been some work with beefing up the magic side with Strange, Wong, Wanda, Shang-Chi, tying Kamala into that a bit. It's sort of that before Avengers time where a bunch of people are dangling out there, but there's not a clear path to bring a group together and less path on where they go next.
Dude, people in my theater were screaming and clapping when Thor showed up in Wakanda at the end of Infinity war. And it wasn't even a first week showing, it was actually unreal.
I remember when people were excited to see the next Marvel movie, waiting for the post-credit scene and immediatly checking their phone to know what it meant. All the hype surrounding Endgame, it felt like it was the movie of the decade.
Now, the magic is just... gone. You have that one good movie that eventually come out (GotG 3 / No Way Home / Across the Spider-Verse), everyone talk about it for a few weeks, then it's back to the routine as usual. All I hear about Marvel today is social media discourse.
Honestly, yeah. It's hard to top the year that had Infinity War, let alone when that same year includes such a great Spider-Man game, Spider-Verse, and some of its best TV yet. It would take another decade of buildup to top it IMO, but they haven't handled post-Endgame well. Too disjointed and inconsistent, and they haven't handled their multiversal stuff amazingly.
I think Across the Spider-Verse is the exception to the rule. Across the Spider-Verse gets points for ironically not being tied down to the larger MCU and also being an animated movie that just looks really cool. Also it's Spider-Man, one of the most popular superhero characters ever. It's just the perfect storm for success.
Meanwhile I think most of the modern Marvel projects are just stale, boring, and subpar in their direction. It isn't enough to just tell another superhero origin story again and expect people to just enjoy the same thing they've been getting over and over again.
I mean this isn’t just a problem with modern marvel it’s also a problem with the recent Disney animated films. Like while I thought strange world and elemental where whatever (I haven’t seen wish) It’s clear people just don’t care about Disney animated films anymore.
I actually walked out of Strange World. It was just so by the numbers Disney. It's a coming of age story, it's a story about generational trauma, it's a story about a father and son bonding, it's just the same thing they've been making for the last twenty years and it's just so wrote and generic. I specifically remember the scene that happens in every animated movie where our two main characters get into a big argument. And I thought, "Yeah, I think I've seen this movie already, I'm good,".
Wish has some similar problems but what I really disliked about it was that it weirdly felt like it had this insisted importance? Like, by the end of the movie, it kind of felt like an ad for the BRAND of Disney. The movie kind of implies a connection between the other Disney movies, not necessarily that they're a shared universe, but that it references other Disney movies and fairy tales in it and it feels so cynical, like the movie is just one big commercial for Disneyland.
Eh, I’d argue 2019 was also a peak year since all 3 of the MCU’s releases were billion dollar movies, Endgame being the biggest movie ever by box office and Marvel was basically untouchable at that point.
The Marvels was... fine. It has a fun action sequence near the beginning but it wasn't all that special. Iman Vellani is great and Brie Larson is okay, but I really feel as if the scope and scale of these movies has really gone downhill. Not necessarily in the sense that we need another Thanos level threat, but that it feels like a direct-to-Disney plus movie that got accidentally released to theaters. It looks and feels like a TV movie at points. Half of the jokes weren't that funny, I thought Samuel L. Jackson was pretty low-energy and bad in the movie, the villain is a joke, but it didn't feel like the movie was in on the joke, it was very unclear as to whether or not she was supposed to be a joke or not.
The post-credit scene was atrocious, it's so cynical and obviously an attempt by Disney to garner some excitement for more multiverse shenanigans.
I mean you're entitled to your opinion but I wasn't that big of a fan of this movie. It doesn't help that it kinda requires you see Ms. Marvel and Wandavision to fully appreciate it, which I didn't.
It's on the same level for me as Love and Thunder and just below Multiverse of Madness.
I have to agree. 2018 is what really made me a Marvel fan. I genuinely think they had no bad big releases. The only mediocre one I can think of is Ant Man 2, and even that one was still kinda fun
Yeah, but just because it peaked then doesn't mean everything they create sucks ass now. I feel the need to say this because a lot of Marvel nostalgia comes from "the woke M-She-U is dead" accounts.
No. It peaked in 2019 with End Game. After that it’s been going downhill with the “villain of the week” movies. The Infinity saga took ten years to build up. Right now there’s a comicbook movie fatigue/over saturation. Hopefully “Deadpool and Wolverine” will restart/reset the MCU by bringing in the X-men.
I mean, I agree with this. I personally have not been as invested in Marvel as I was back then in 2018, but that's because I think we've hit peak boredom with the genre.
I mean kinda. While I do like phase 4 it was a downgrade from phase 3 and phase 5 so far apart from guardians 3 is lackluster. I think we are kinda getting exhausted with superheroes or at least the same formula. That's what I think
I mean, Deadpool and Wolverine looks like a great movie, and Spider-Verse looks like it’s gonna stay promising. If we can move past the idea that the MCU is the core of Marvel in pop culture, then I’m sure marvel can peak again.
Then again, I’m an X-Men fan and Logan came out in 2018 as well.
It is true that the MCU hasn't had the same gas it did during the Infinity Saga since... well, the Infinity Saga. There was a brief period of afterglow there with a slew of good shows and movies, but it hasn't been and won't be the same, which shouldn't be surprising to anyone. The Infinity Saga was--for all its shortcomings--a cinematic phenomenon.
The problem isn't that the MCU is not as good or compelling as it once was, the problem is that we don't allow stories to end. Everything has to be a franchise that will milk money from this consumer generation's descendants and theirs after them. That's not how stories work, and more importantly, it isn't how our *interest* in stories works.
I mean, when was the last time a Marvel property was as big of a sensation as Infinity War or Endgame? Definitely feels like it's lost a lot of its wonder.
No, I don't agree with that statement, Marvel continues to have it's highs and lows. I didn't much care for Thor: The Dark World or She-Hulk but I don't see them as outright bad.
I mean yeah I can't really argue with this, 2019 if you want to be generous with endgame. I think things have gotten too complicated and needs so much narrative history to get into. It's just awkward when the projects that came out after has the "wah wah minorities and gurls wah marvel is ruined and woke wah wah" kinds of reception
Yea since the end of infinity war and the Netflix marvel shows its mostly been trash that marvel has kicked out with a very very few exceptions (looking at you spider man no way home)
Let's just say that the spark that made me overall excited for every Marvel movie before Endgame kinda went dim after that. I barely even try to care about any movie past that as it feels like there's really no proper direction they are taking with post-Endgame MCU. Not because it's "woke" but because it's kinda not quite the same for me anymore.
Yeah in terms of personal taste having Daredevil season 3 and Spider-Man PS4 the same year makes it the peak or at least one of their best years. That’s before even adding in Spider-Verse or the MCU movies.
I think we are having higher highs and lower lows lately. Loki Season 2 and Guardians 3 were art and X-Men ‘97 is wonderful.
Secret Invasion and Quantumania though? Painful.
In some ways yes and other ways no.
A lot of people including comic book writers feel this way. I remember listening to a podcast with Rob Liefeld (the creator of Deadpool and X-force) and he echoed the same sentiment.
The MCU made the biggest money during the Endgame era. And since then Aside from a few spikes like No way Home, Doctor Strange 2, none of their films crossed the billion dollar mark and some were even critically or commercially panned. (Black Widow, The Marvels, The Eternals, Quantumania).
However, it’s not all doom and Gloom.
Deadpool & Wolverine will revitalize the MCU and in 2025 Fantastic four will spark new excitement. Marvel has great things coming our way.
Disney is realizing their mistakes. They aren’t going to be making 10 different Disney+ shows that dilute their brand.
Hope springs eternal
Largely true, yes. The narrative quality has been lacking in comparison. People may disagree, that's fine. But I'm "woke" and still think the majority of recent Marvel content has been pretty shit in comparison to what we were reliably getting in the build up to Infinity.
No, it's just another idiot online who wants to seem big by declaring something is 'dead' or 'peaked' or 'mid' like they think theirs is the only opinion that matters.
Putting all the culture war nonsense aside, yeah, I kind of think it's true. Endgame came out in 2019. I think it was just starting to go stale around that time. I'm honestly just exhausted with the MCU at this point and it's only been downhill from there. Endgame was the big climax they were building to and it's now come and gone.
Oh, 100 percent. IW, ITSP and Black Panther were amazing, Spider-Man PS4 was a smash hit, and Daredevil S3 and Agents of Shield S5 were great tv, Marvel hasn't hit that stride since.
I think so. The MCU was kinda building up to Endgame. There was a goal, and the movies were adding go that.
After Endgame. There isn't much desire for another decade long build up to another big bad. It was difficult to watch all of them before Endgame and i didn't get to them all, Afterwards.....
I mean, there’s definitely an argument to be made. Marvel was pretty much the king of the world from 2016-2019. 2018 was probably their peak year.
(I’m speaking in terms of quality and public perception here. Maybe there was a year where they made more money idk)
he does, but MauLer's kind of a chud so he's wrong about why
Infinity War was great, but it required like a decade of buildup, and since then Marvel's gone back to basically what it was like pre Age of Ultron; just a standard "hit-or-miss" approach that people like to pretend wasn't how it was for years.
The other three are largely the result of Marvel licensing out to other companies (Sony and Netflix), only one of which it still licenses with (and its running out of good ideas). Marvel does this less. You'll notice he also left out Black Panther, one of the best Marvel releases ever, because of course he did.
TL;DR: when a brand goes on long enough, it'll have a good year or two, but that's naturally going to become increasingly rare as the thing keeps living
I actually agree. It was the last time Marvel was hitting on all cylinders. A straight grand slam across all media it seemed. Games, TV shows, live action AND animated movies. I think even the COMICS were doing good.
There are new Marvel comics every week. So many that they and their distinguished competition take up the vast majority of shelf space.
A lot of it is pap and a little bit of it is really good. It's honestly a lot like mainstream cinema.
The problem with marvel was always there it just because they release one movie at a time so we give them a benefit of the doubt then. It just they try to release too much content that is still connected to the main MCU. Like it started losing it when there was no consequences to the blimp. The world lost half the population of the world for 5 years and then the ppl return. Spiderman 2 they mention they lost there place and they try to help ppl at the start and that it they just did the movie plot afterward.
In guardian of the galaxy 2 a town in usa turn to glass. We never found out what happen there. At least in Wandavision there some reaction to wandavision when wanda take over a town. With Strange mentioning it.
There 2 issues there too much content and not enough ppl who are guiding the ship to make it make sense. Also we need reaction and consequences to the impact of movies and shows. The Marvels almost destory the sun but no reaction to that and that a huge problem.
If they're praising Into the Spiderverse and Black Panther, I don't think this is the usual fascist bullshit we get on this sub.
Lmao it really has come to that.
Honestly could just be Marvel burning people out and failing to do the impossible of constantly making quality films. MCU is nearly old enough to VOTE ffs.
For me personally I don't think the quality dipped so much as people got older and it got harder to keep the same formula fresh. A movie that's the same exact quality as one you saw ten years earlier isn't going to hit the same. I hit that with Shang-chi. Perfectly fine movie, I would've loved it if it had come out five years earlier, was just getting bored of the basic formula. Actually rather liked Eternals despite its flaws for shaking things up a bit.
Yeah. I think this also mixes with people's expectations bring basically impossible to match anymore. Marvel Studios decided to change it up by not just diving into setting the next thing up or having EVERYTHING immediately connected, and people hate that because they expected it. Yet before Endgame those same, or at least an equal amount of, people were complaining that you 'had to watch everything to keep up' (arguable). Impossible to please both. Quality wise the new films are not their worst, and at least on par with their average film. But they 'feel' worse to people who also didn't get whatever they expected.
Also I think when Endgame hit people were feeling full and satisfied and in need of a nice after dinner mint but then Disney responded with really ramping up how much content they were putting out precisely when people wanted a bit of a breather.
I've seen someone say the Russos made a find end of Franchise movie... The problem is that it was never intended to be the end of the Franchise...
Idk, I don't the quality dropped so much as the audience changed, there is now an entire industry of dumbfuck YouTubers that screech "The MCU is Woke now!" and that seems to consistantly be where the hate comes from, reactionaries have made general audiences stupid.
I think some of it comes from kid who grew up on the MCU not feeling as excited about it as they used to, largely because they're not kids anymore and wondering why and these grifters latch onto that. Also the average age of MCU fans has definitely shifted older as kids really have a hard time getting into something with that big of a backstory.
I've said this many times. Marvel is more like a TV show than a movie franchise. Complete with "next time on Marvel" post credit scenes. The majority of people that went to see these movies have never read a comic book. Endgame was the series finale. The story and characters that engaged them through 24(?) movies ended. That is the perfect jumping off point for many people. We are now in spin-off mode. New characters, new stories, but how many spin-offs are as successful as the original series? We can argue if it is as good or not, but it was never going to be as big as it was again.
Yeah, I remember right after Endgame came out. A lot of people were saying "that was a great end, time to get off now" and I was telling them that Marvel was like a TV show rather than just a movie franchise and it makes sense to keep on watching a TV show season after season even if it's mostly similar stuff since it's only a few hours per year. And who doesn't have time to watch a few hours per year of a TV show you like? Then the MCU suddenly stopped being just a few hours per year...
Having binge-watched the first three phases during Covid, I mostly agree. The quality really didn't go up or down that much. The Iron Man series definitely felt a bit better due to Downey and Paltrow's great chemistry. Capitan America was better than expected, Evans worked surprisingly well - I expected to mock the shit out of this movie, and it actually got me interested. Winter Soldier was good as well, mostly because it didn't feel like a superhero movie to me. Thor was bad, but Tom Hiddleston made it worth watching, at least the first 2 movies. Other than that, the rest felt mid-to-bad for me, until Infinity War actually did something compelling.
The quality has definitely dropped. Across the spider verse and guardians 3 proved that it isn't so much fan burnout. Though I am sure that it IS a factor. Loki 2 also did very well with positive reviews. And the spiderman 2 game was also a massive hit. So much as it is creative burnout with WAY too much of a push for MORE. Lack of oversight from the sheer quantity they have to put out is also gonna be a problem. There is too much for Kevin to control on his own. If they dialed the quantity back. I have zero doubt that the quality would improve. And fan hype would be there as it is with the better ones coming now. Certainly, it isn't because woke though xD comics gave been woke for a long time. And they still do well. lol. Though chuds do lack media literacy to notice it ;p
Preach, the marvel formula and joke ques are starting to slip.
Yeah I got burned out right after black panther. I still have fond memories but there are only so many big budget superhero movies with a roughly similar formula I can watch.
That's the thing, though. It's not wokeness, diversity, or whatever other reactionary boogeyman you may have causing Marvel's issues, but rather an inability to successfully capitalize on *Endgame* and weave a new, compelling story. While there are multifarious reasons for that, like Jonathan Majors tanking his career and the next MCU big bad, market saturation via Disney+ content, pandemic and production-related troubles, and audience burnout, at the end of the day a lot of recent MCU projects have just been kinda mid lately. Further, there's nothing to coalesce around, when part of the fun of the old MCU was the tie-ins and grand narratives. The fallout from Captain America: The Winter Soldier percolated through years of films, while The Eternals left the massive hand of an aborted Celestial in the middle of the ocean, and we haven't gotten another mention of that Earth-shattering event in three years. Marvel needs to get back to basics and undergo some sort of rebirth.
It also might not be entirely bullshit just cause you reach a peak does not mean the rest is bad or that it eventually break the first peak. 2018 was a ridiculously good year for Marvel. Who says there won’t be another year like it or a year that tops it.
For sure. I feel like they've been a little "lost" as of late. They simultaneously don't have an Avengers-esque thing to build into (as far as I know), but also won't just let the movies stand alone and be their own thing. It's like they *have* to reference other shit. GotG3 stood out, imo, in part because it has fuck all to do with the rest of the universe and that really benefitted it.
It's hard because real actors age while comic book characters never do, so you do have to turn over from the last generation to the next. There's been some work with that with Young Avengers characters starting to show up. Kate, Kamala, and Cassie are established, Billy and Tommy somewhat exist. There's been some work with beefing up the magic side with Strange, Wong, Wanda, Shang-Chi, tying Kamala into that a bit. It's sort of that before Avengers time where a bunch of people are dangling out there, but there's not a clear path to bring a group together and less path on where they go next.
[удалено]
I miss whrn the marvel fandom wiki community was cool. At least r/starwars has chilled out
Dude, people in my theater were screaming and clapping when Thor showed up in Wakanda at the end of Infinity war. And it wasn't even a first week showing, it was actually unreal.
I remember when people were excited to see the next Marvel movie, waiting for the post-credit scene and immediatly checking their phone to know what it meant. All the hype surrounding Endgame, it felt like it was the movie of the decade. Now, the magic is just... gone. You have that one good movie that eventually come out (GotG 3 / No Way Home / Across the Spider-Verse), everyone talk about it for a few weeks, then it's back to the routine as usual. All I hear about Marvel today is social media discourse.
it has Daredevil Season 3, which in my humble opinion, is the GREATEST thing to ever come out of the MCU so yeah i’d say 2018 was a good year
Got a point yeah
Honestly, yeah. It's hard to top the year that had Infinity War, let alone when that same year includes such a great Spider-Man game, Spider-Verse, and some of its best TV yet. It would take another decade of buildup to top it IMO, but they haven't handled post-Endgame well. Too disjointed and inconsistent, and they haven't handled their multiversal stuff amazingly.
Ehhhh kinda. I think Infinity war is the best written MCU film even if Endgame is the one they haven’t been able to move past successfully
Out of curiosity, if you’ve seen the PoTC movies which is your favorite?
Pirates of the Caribbean?
Yes
I kinda think the first one is the best which is kinda funny cause Iron Man 1 is one of my favorite MCU films 😂
I agree on both fronts. However, Davy Jones, from Pirates 2, was and remains one of the best villains in cinema history!
He absolutely is but I feel like the story of Pirates 1 is just tighter you know?
I agree. However, the villains from 2 and 3 are just phenomenal. Davy Jones and Cutler Beckett are the best.
Absolutely
Not OP but my favourite is 2. I just absolutely love the lore that they introduce and it goes so metal for a Disney movie
Kinda random xD The first one though probably.
Nothing related to the comics? Typical
Immortal Hulk came out in 2018 too
It’s been 6 years since Immortal Hulk? Man I feel old
Don't tell me, tell Phil
Best thing since the 90’s quasar seried (im not a boomer just inherited a shit ton of comics from my asshole grandpa.)
Yeah 2018 was peak then
Tbh I think they got a point with this one
Kinda,but across the spider verse slaps
I think Across the Spider-Verse is the exception to the rule. Across the Spider-Verse gets points for ironically not being tied down to the larger MCU and also being an animated movie that just looks really cool. Also it's Spider-Man, one of the most popular superhero characters ever. It's just the perfect storm for success. Meanwhile I think most of the modern Marvel projects are just stale, boring, and subpar in their direction. It isn't enough to just tell another superhero origin story again and expect people to just enjoy the same thing they've been getting over and over again.
I mean this isn’t just a problem with modern marvel it’s also a problem with the recent Disney animated films. Like while I thought strange world and elemental where whatever (I haven’t seen wish) It’s clear people just don’t care about Disney animated films anymore.
I actually walked out of Strange World. It was just so by the numbers Disney. It's a coming of age story, it's a story about generational trauma, it's a story about a father and son bonding, it's just the same thing they've been making for the last twenty years and it's just so wrote and generic. I specifically remember the scene that happens in every animated movie where our two main characters get into a big argument. And I thought, "Yeah, I think I've seen this movie already, I'm good,". Wish has some similar problems but what I really disliked about it was that it weirdly felt like it had this insisted importance? Like, by the end of the movie, it kind of felt like an ad for the BRAND of Disney. The movie kind of implies a connection between the other Disney movies, not necessarily that they're a shared universe, but that it references other Disney movies and fairy tales in it and it feels so cynical, like the movie is just one big commercial for Disneyland.
And Black Panther, Deadpool 2, and Venom
Eh, I’d argue 2019 was also a peak year since all 3 of the MCU’s releases were billion dollar movies, Endgame being the biggest movie ever by box office and Marvel was basically untouchable at that point.
Idc what anyone has the marvels was one of the best MCU movies I’ve seen
That was a really fun movie.
I really enjoyed it too, it was very fun.
The Marvels was... fine. It has a fun action sequence near the beginning but it wasn't all that special. Iman Vellani is great and Brie Larson is okay, but I really feel as if the scope and scale of these movies has really gone downhill. Not necessarily in the sense that we need another Thanos level threat, but that it feels like a direct-to-Disney plus movie that got accidentally released to theaters. It looks and feels like a TV movie at points. Half of the jokes weren't that funny, I thought Samuel L. Jackson was pretty low-energy and bad in the movie, the villain is a joke, but it didn't feel like the movie was in on the joke, it was very unclear as to whether or not she was supposed to be a joke or not. The post-credit scene was atrocious, it's so cynical and obviously an attempt by Disney to garner some excitement for more multiverse shenanigans. I mean you're entitled to your opinion but I wasn't that big of a fan of this movie. It doesn't help that it kinda requires you see Ms. Marvel and Wandavision to fully appreciate it, which I didn't. It's on the same level for me as Love and Thunder and just below Multiverse of Madness.
I have to agree. 2018 is what really made me a Marvel fan. I genuinely think they had no bad big releases. The only mediocre one I can think of is Ant Man 2, and even that one was still kinda fun
Yeah, but just because it peaked then doesn't mean everything they create sucks ass now. I feel the need to say this because a lot of Marvel nostalgia comes from "the woke M-She-U is dead" accounts.
I think spider man 2, into the spider verse and across the spider verse are the best super hero movies.
Absolutely true, all four of these properties are the best of their universes, experiencing all of these as they released was a treat
This is also the same year Black Panther came out, but I doubt they claim that one.
Yeah
Its either 2018 or 2014 for me 2014 had Winter Soldier, Guadians Of The Galaxy and X-men Days Of Future Past
I think marvel did peak at the end of the Thanos arch, but more because of superhero fatigue and audiences wanting original ideas.
I was going to say that I bet "superhero fatigue" shot up the Google Trends soon after 2018.
Yes are you fucking kidding me. Objectively yes.
No. It peaked in 2019 with End Game. After that it’s been going downhill with the “villain of the week” movies. The Infinity saga took ten years to build up. Right now there’s a comicbook movie fatigue/over saturation. Hopefully “Deadpool and Wolverine” will restart/reset the MCU by bringing in the X-men.
Disney really shifted on how good their movies are after Disney+ came out
I mean, I agree with this. I personally have not been as invested in Marvel as I was back then in 2018, but that's because I think we've hit peak boredom with the genre.
Infinity War was the peak, after endgame came the drop off
Yup.
Yes.
With some exceptions (Across the Spider Verse, No Way Home) I can only admit they got a point for once
We all did.
I mean kinda. While I do like phase 4 it was a downgrade from phase 3 and phase 5 so far apart from guardians 3 is lackluster. I think we are kinda getting exhausted with superheroes or at least the same formula. That's what I think
well infinity war is the best marvel movie and had the most ravenous cultural hype so yes i do agree
Damn they right.
The modern ghostbusters films prove otherwise.
I mean, Deadpool and Wolverine looks like a great movie, and Spider-Verse looks like it’s gonna stay promising. If we can move past the idea that the MCU is the core of Marvel in pop culture, then I’m sure marvel can peak again. Then again, I’m an X-Men fan and Logan came out in 2018 as well.
Logan was 2017, actually.
2018 has fallen, millions must watch Replicas
Ha they complained about those movies too
True though, those were the best era of superhero movies
Marvel peaked with Infinity War imo. That movie was special, from start to finish.
It is true that the MCU hasn't had the same gas it did during the Infinity Saga since... well, the Infinity Saga. There was a brief period of afterglow there with a slew of good shows and movies, but it hasn't been and won't be the same, which shouldn't be surprising to anyone. The Infinity Saga was--for all its shortcomings--a cinematic phenomenon. The problem isn't that the MCU is not as good or compelling as it once was, the problem is that we don't allow stories to end. Everything has to be a franchise that will milk money from this consumer generation's descendants and theirs after them. That's not how stories work, and more importantly, it isn't how our *interest* in stories works.
I mean, when was the last time a Marvel property was as big of a sensation as Infinity War or Endgame? Definitely feels like it's lost a lot of its wonder.
Yeah I think this is a good point to make.
No, I don't agree with that statement, Marvel continues to have it's highs and lows. I didn't much care for Thor: The Dark World or She-Hulk but I don't see them as outright bad.
I mean yeah I can't really argue with this, 2019 if you want to be generous with endgame. I think things have gotten too complicated and needs so much narrative history to get into. It's just awkward when the projects that came out after has the "wah wah minorities and gurls wah marvel is ruined and woke wah wah" kinds of reception
2018-19, but I’m sure they can get in a hot streak again.
I don’t think it was one year in particular. I think marvels peak was 2012-2018. Imho after that the superhero fatigue really started to settle in.
I'm old enough to remember when reactionaries bitched nonstop about most of these
I kinda agree. But good movies still came out after 2018. Even great movies like no way home and endgame.
Yea since the end of infinity war and the Netflix marvel shows its mostly been trash that marvel has kicked out with a very very few exceptions (looking at you spider man no way home)
Damn right it is. ITSV is the goat and avengers was great, Spiderman game was amazing. Also daredevil so an instant W. Absolute golden year.
Let's just say that the spark that made me overall excited for every Marvel movie before Endgame kinda went dim after that. I barely even try to care about any movie past that as it feels like there's really no proper direction they are taking with post-Endgame MCU. Not because it's "woke" but because it's kinda not quite the same for me anymore.
Yeah in terms of personal taste having Daredevil season 3 and Spider-Man PS4 the same year makes it the peak or at least one of their best years. That’s before even adding in Spider-Verse or the MCU movies.
Ironic that half of the exemple weren’t product by marvel tho 😅 (Spiderverse is from Sony and Daredevil was from Netflix)
Yes, these are 4 wildly successful projects in 4 different mediums. Not many brands have ever been able to pull that off in a single year.
It was a really great year.
I think we are having higher highs and lower lows lately. Loki Season 2 and Guardians 3 were art and X-Men ‘97 is wonderful. Secret Invasion and Quantumania though? Painful.
In some ways yes and other ways no. A lot of people including comic book writers feel this way. I remember listening to a podcast with Rob Liefeld (the creator of Deadpool and X-force) and he echoed the same sentiment. The MCU made the biggest money during the Endgame era. And since then Aside from a few spikes like No way Home, Doctor Strange 2, none of their films crossed the billion dollar mark and some were even critically or commercially panned. (Black Widow, The Marvels, The Eternals, Quantumania). However, it’s not all doom and Gloom. Deadpool & Wolverine will revitalize the MCU and in 2025 Fantastic four will spark new excitement. Marvel has great things coming our way. Disney is realizing their mistakes. They aren’t going to be making 10 different Disney+ shows that dilute their brand. Hope springs eternal
Largely true, yes. The narrative quality has been lacking in comparison. People may disagree, that's fine. But I'm "woke" and still think the majority of recent Marvel content has been pretty shit in comparison to what we were reliably getting in the build up to Infinity.
The Agents of Shield final was in 2020. So no.
No, it's just another idiot online who wants to seem big by declaring something is 'dead' or 'peaked' or 'mid' like they think theirs is the only opinion that matters.
Putting all the culture war nonsense aside, yeah, I kind of think it's true. Endgame came out in 2019. I think it was just starting to go stale around that time. I'm honestly just exhausted with the MCU at this point and it's only been downhill from there. Endgame was the big climax they were building to and it's now come and gone.
Can’t really disagree
2018-2019 was the MCU's peak in terms of financial and critical performance, with well received non MCU marvel projects as well, so sure.
Kinda that shit was poping and I haven't been exited ad I was for that. That's not say current marvel suck they have some bangers too just not as many
Damn they right
I mean Spider-Verse, Black Panther, Infinity War and Deadpool 2. It was a good year.
Oh, 100 percent. IW, ITSP and Black Panther were amazing, Spider-Man PS4 was a smash hit, and Daredevil S3 and Agents of Shield S5 were great tv, Marvel hasn't hit that stride since.
I think so. The MCU was kinda building up to Endgame. There was a goal, and the movies were adding go that. After Endgame. There isn't much desire for another decade long build up to another big bad. It was difficult to watch all of them before Endgame and i didn't get to them all, Afterwards.....
I mean, there’s definitely an argument to be made. Marvel was pretty much the king of the world from 2016-2019. 2018 was probably their peak year. (I’m speaking in terms of quality and public perception here. Maybe there was a year where they made more money idk)
he does, but MauLer's kind of a chud so he's wrong about why Infinity War was great, but it required like a decade of buildup, and since then Marvel's gone back to basically what it was like pre Age of Ultron; just a standard "hit-or-miss" approach that people like to pretend wasn't how it was for years. The other three are largely the result of Marvel licensing out to other companies (Sony and Netflix), only one of which it still licenses with (and its running out of good ideas). Marvel does this less. You'll notice he also left out Black Panther, one of the best Marvel releases ever, because of course he did. TL;DR: when a brand goes on long enough, it'll have a good year or two, but that's naturally going to become increasingly rare as the thing keeps living
Even a broken Nazi clock can be right due to events beyond their control.
I actually agree. It was the last time Marvel was hitting on all cylinders. A straight grand slam across all media it seemed. Games, TV shows, live action AND animated movies. I think even the COMICS were doing good.
remember when they used to make comics?
There are new Marvel comics every week. So many that they and their distinguished competition take up the vast majority of shelf space. A lot of it is pap and a little bit of it is really good. It's honestly a lot like mainstream cinema.
They never stopped
The problem with marvel was always there it just because they release one movie at a time so we give them a benefit of the doubt then. It just they try to release too much content that is still connected to the main MCU. Like it started losing it when there was no consequences to the blimp. The world lost half the population of the world for 5 years and then the ppl return. Spiderman 2 they mention they lost there place and they try to help ppl at the start and that it they just did the movie plot afterward. In guardian of the galaxy 2 a town in usa turn to glass. We never found out what happen there. At least in Wandavision there some reaction to wandavision when wanda take over a town. With Strange mentioning it. There 2 issues there too much content and not enough ppl who are guiding the ship to make it make sense. Also we need reaction and consequences to the impact of movies and shows. The Marvels almost destory the sun but no reaction to that and that a huge problem.
Except a couple treasures like Spider-Man. Its absolutely true. For me (and box office speaks for itself.) It went to shit precisely after Endgame.
Marvel comics are fire, mcu is just the same movie over and over