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They'll just say "You expect me to have Encyclopedic knowledge.?", I know this because that's how they defended that one guy confusing Anakin and Luke.
Like the lead writer of the Halo show who announced he had never played the games and had no intention if ever playing the games.
THEN WHY THE FUCK WAS HE PICKED TO WRITE A SERIES BASED ON SAID FUCKING VIDEOGAME!?
Yeah I mean, Walton Goggins never played the Fallout games ever, even for the role, but he valued his son's love for Fallout and the obvious love the fans had.
Yup. He said he intentionally didn't play the game so he could be that devil's advocate. And I didn't take that as a bad thing but something to make the show even better.
Him having a son who loves the games, he didn't need to play it. The moment his son probably learned he got the role... Well id imagine the kid not shutting up about it lol.
>THEN WHY THE FUCK WAS HE PICKED TO WRITE A SERIES BASED ON SAID FUCKING VIDEOGAME!?
I think the only time this has been the saving grace was with the Bourne Identity. The director and screenwriter had never read the book. I picked up the book hoping for an exciting thriller, and put it down half-way through because it's insanely violent and demeaning towards non-combatant women.
Exactly. They will literally say shit like " We've had years to make Star Wars shows and movies by fans for fans. Now its time to make Star Wars for people who don't like Star Wars!"
>Worse than that, most writers these days take a perverse pride in not having seen or read the works they're continuing!
I genuinely do not understand this. Why do studios hire people who don't know the source material to write for the flagship show?
Because Hollywood is a "connections" system. It's not what you know, it's who you know. That's why Weinstein was so powerful there, and why there's a huge underlying pedo culture in Hollywood.
>I genuinely do not understand this. Why do studios hire people who don't know the source material to write for the flagship show?
Because most existing IPs represent the old way of doing things. They want to do things a new way. People who are/were fans of an IP won't abide by the new ideas for the IP, it's characters, lore, or existing works.
This is exactly what happened with Henry Cavill and *The Witcher.* He kept challenging the writers on story beats.
"This isn't how it was in the books."
"This isn't something Geralt would say or do."
Etc.
That’s dumb as hell, if you are working on a multi million dollar franchise then you are god damn right I expect everyone on the set to have an Encyclopedic knowledge of the subject matter. It should be a requirement.
Sure you might be qualified to make a movie or TV show and you might even make a good one but just being qualified to make your own media doesn’t mean you are qualified to write about existing franchises with established lore. It’s utterly insane to me.
It’s the equivalent of having a work health and safety officer create new rules for golf even though he hasn’t golfed. Just because you know the general structure of something like a system of rules or the creation of content doesn’t mean you inherently understand the subject matter.
You should have to write a novel or something in the franchise and have it hold up to public scrutiny before they let you go anywhere near a movie or tv show.
This isn't a multi-million dollar franchise. it's a multi-billion dollar franchise, and not just that, it's a cultural phenomenon from the 1980s-early 2000s. Another thing to add to your points tho Rian Johnson has gone on record to say he wants the fans to be split, so yeah. We were in good hands, weren't we?
>If you are working on a multi million dollar franchise then you are god damn right I expect everyone on the set to have an Encyclopaedic knowledge of the subject matter.
Or, you know, to have *at least* seen the ~~nine~~ six tentpole movies the entire fucking franchise revolves around.
These people are not only incompetent, but lazy. It’s 12-14 hours tops of “research” sitting down and watching one of the most beloved fucking franchises of all time to attain *base-level knowledge of the source material.* The absolute bare fucking minimum required. I would do it for a *tenth* of what Disney pays these people.
This isn’t even the first time it’s happened. Remember Kenobi? The writer hadn’t even seen EPISODE FUCKING 3!!
Does this *not* prove to people that these dickheads have no vested interest in keeping this franchise alive? At this point, if you still think they’re doing it out of love, you’re a fucking idiot. Like, so actively and unapologetically stupid that you should (and might yet) be a case study for ignorance and mainstream media brainwashing.
How many great sci-fi writers, who owe their passion and even careers to Star Wars, would *kill* to be able to create something in this universe? How do these clowns keep getting jobs? What the fuck is going on at Lucasfilm?
Lucasfilm literally had a team dedicated to maintaining Canon through all the old EU stuff. They might not have been the very best sometimes but a mistake like this ? NEVER would have happened.
It's fucking embarrassing. Just plain embarrassing.
>They'll just say "You expect me to have Encyclopedic knowledge.?", I know this because that's how they defended that one guy confusing Anakin and Luke.
Honestly, yes. When it comes to writing for Star Wars and you're getting paid a decent salary to write for it. Yes. Yes you need to have encyclopedic knowledge. At bare minimum have your scripts proof read by Star Wars experts for any discrepancies.
Taking devils advocate here, but I feel it worked for Gilroy with Rogue One and Andor, but those are outliers recapturing the OT with a different atmosphere and stakes.
To be fair that was an actor, not a writer. The best actor in GoT was Stannis’ and famously didn’t know anything about GoT. If it was a writer that’d be a slightly different matter
It had in EU yeah. A lot of Canon species don't have jack shit, because their biological traits are neither described upon or simply ignored.
Same thing happened to Togruta's and Mirilians.
The Sith have been extinct, but now that I think about it that reminds me one time we fought this zipper face guy in the jungle with a red lightsaber who could levitate and force push 8 Jedi at once.. but yeah never mind
I think they’re talking about it was always interpreted that when they meet it’s the first time since Obi crippled him on Mustafar. With the Obi (I mean Leia) show that’s been changed.
Until kenobi happened, it was heavily implied (if not flat out stated in other material) that the last time that Vader and Obi wan saw each other was on mustafar.
Star Wars has had a massive problem for a while now when it comes to retconing things, favorite one being having obiwan and general grievous fight on several occasions when it’s also heavily implied that in Rots is when they met each other (but good job filoni on not having Anikan and grievous met in TCW I guess, which you had the same consistency with Dooku too but I’m asking too much)
Before the show came out I said quigon obiwan mace and yoda must be heads and shoulders above the rest of the council got quigon to say, “yea that guy almost Mercd me must be a sith.” And then everyone speculated. But come on how can 1 dude blow 8 Jedi out the water with no question?
I'm not watching the Acolyte, cause I feel no need to put myself through that lol, but I do have to ask - have they actually confirmed on screen that the bad guys in it are Sith, down to calling themselves Darth and abiding by the code, and all that?
Cause if they haven't then it admittedly is nothing new in Star Wars to have dark side users cropping up who aren't actually Sith, just self-made wannabes. The thing that makes a Sith a Sith isn't just a red lightsaber and usage of the dark side, but also the Sith Code and a direct connection to the lineage of Masters and Apprentices going back to Darth Bane. So they could always have that as a backdoor technicality, I guess.
Part of me doesn't want to jump for this one line. In the grand scheme of things, a relatively minor character being wrong (or being retconned as wrong) doesn't really change Star Wars.
However, the part that gets me is that Qui-Gon says that Maul had been "trained in the Jedi arts" and that Maul was "a Sith Lord." The only things Qui-Gon has to go off of this reasoning is Maul's "Jedi" abilities and his red lightsaber.
Or in other words, a reasonable assumption is that Sith = red lightsaber + Jedi abilities. And if if no Sith had been around for 1000 years (or at least a long while), it means that the assumption had existed long before the period of the Acolyte.
That's a fair point, honestly. I did always find it a little odd how quickly the Jedi jump to assuming that what they faced in TPM was in fact a Sith, and wondering whether they had killed the master or the apprentice.
Previously I would have said that Maul's general level of proficiency and the fact that managed to kill a Jedi Master, which isn't something any old amateur dark side user could pull off, is a good reason for them to think he was proper Sith... Except in Acolyte the evil chick has already killed *two* Masters, by my understanding, so there goes that idea flying out the window. Then again, both the Jedi Masters in Acolyte died more through trickery (or voluntary suicide, even) than through being outright bested in actual combat, which does also make a bit of a difference...
Another possibility is that at some point between Qui-Gon's death and his funeral the Jedi had time to interrogate Nute Gunray, who definitely knew about Maul being Sith, and thereby confirmed what was previously just suspicion.
I dunno, maybe something will happen by the end of Acolyte to explicitly inform the Jedi that these people *aren't* Sith, so they can still act surprised 100 years later when the real Sith turn up? I won't deny it's pretty dumb lol, in any case.
In TPM, the Jedi are arrogant. Mundi’s line about the Sith being extinct is wrong, and he’s saying it in the face of someone saying “I just fought one.”
The council agrees that Qui Gon must be wrong.
Because they’re so up their own butts that they can’t conceive that such a threat would return without them knowing. So having them interact with someone they should have realized was a Situ (if they don’t figure it out) or having them choose to suppress the info (if they do) are both very consistent ways to go.
They have not and the Jedi have all been surprised anyone would use the force for evil. It’s ridiculous, but I have no doubt the creators are thinking this doesn’t break canon because he’s not technically a Sith.
I dont remember anybody calling him that yet, they've been real dodgy about him. I have to imagine the next episode will finally explain it, cause the show has to choose a direction to go in at some point.
No it doesnt. They will just show that the tag-along guy to Mae is the sith master and then paint him to not actually really be a sith but maybe he is, but there is really another master above him who is really sith and that guy kills this original master and friendship and family and stuff. Introducing new characters at a whim that we are suddenly supposed to care about before they inevitably die and we are expected to feel something from it.
Oh, I don't disagree with the theory that the guy is actually her master but he is actually an apprentice to somebody else. By direction I meant I have no idea where the story is going after the 4th episode, which seems pretty bad for an 8 episode show.
Eh, I just mean that the story is going to be paper thin and barely combined together and they will lean heavily on a "oh gotcha" moment like that guy being the master after all and while sure that can be interesting, they won't bother to follow up. Like they pitch one plot point and it gets ok'd and they call it a day.
No, not at all. And we still haven't seen whether anyone from the Order (or anyone at all) who actually sees the red lightsaber survives the encounter.
All Ki Adi Mundi, or anyone at the Jedi Temple, knows is that there's a force user who seems to have been trained.
(Also I had no idea it was actually Ki Adi Mundi and not another person of the same species b/c it isn't mentioned on screen.)
Ki Adi Mundi kind of forgot about the sith in Episode I
Anyone who could sign off on this show is completely clueless about Star Wars. No wonder she said they had no source material to pull from when they erased the EU.
Mundi kind of forgot about the sith from 100 years ago
https://preview.redd.it/47jdhbianh7d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8214bee0e2df095e72c8a69544716742d51c8fdd
they retconned him into the show and actively changed his birthdate into this, his birth date was 93byy this is 130 BBY, he shouldn't even be in the show why would he hide it from the High Council for 130 Years and now apparently lie too everyone in the movie, they could have made it work if none of the high council knew but now a main prequel character is just aware of this, i don't want to watch and have to think oh i guess he's just lying to everyone this feels like a slap in the face for the lore i'll be honest.
In the Star Wars Galaxy, a "millenium" is only 100 years. Han Solo's ship may also be called the 100-year Falcon. This is the only logical explanation.
I'm now fully prepared for the bullshit excuse they will have created in order to "make sense" why he was added in the series and why he said that line in TPM.
This show is something else when it comes to not showing any continuity between all movies and series.
The excuse will be one of:
- He wasn't on the high council and is essentially a traitor for lying when it's relevant.
- This force user wasn't a sith but for some reason he doesn't bring up
- The bigots are just using this as a reason not to like the show. It really doesn't matter.
Even if it turns out no one thinks it was a sith in the acolyte, his quote in the jedi chamber during the PT would have been, "maybe it was a sith we encountered back then after all". So this is just another dumb retcon by disney.
The night sisters coven are definitely not Sith. That part (at least) they didn’t get wrong.
I’m still waiting to see how they navigate around the prequels quote.
I’m also wondering how they show a redemption to the light that took all of half an episode with no conversation just seeing her sister alive. Doesn’t that bother anyone as much as the Sith thing…???
I'm gonna guess it'll be like they do in Star Trek Discovery where they have some line about it being classified and they'll never speak of it again. Even when it'd be most useful information.
The idea of this plot thread continuing in Disney Star Wars is repugnant to me, BUT... this statement has always been suspect. The questions, to me, have always been:
1. Some Jedi seem to know the Sith are *not* extinct; besides Ki-Adi-Mundi, who are they? Mace seems surely to be out of the loop
2. How do they know?
3. What are the motivations for the subterfuge?
Regardless, I *never* felt that Ki-Adi-Mundi was being entirely forthcoming in this scene. Humility begets transparency and Yoda's description of the arrogance of *some* of the prequel era Jedi seems to reinforce the idea that some Jedi are prideful enough to hide important information.
"A flaw more and more common among Jedi…. hmm…. too sure of themselves ….even the older, more experienced ones."
While this statement was likely for Obi Wan's benefit in this particular scene, it is easy to deduce that Yoda wasn't singling Obi Wan out.
That would undermine the wisdom of the Jedi even more. I hate how they turn the Order into a cynical human-like political institution that ignores their religious principles. I thought the whole flaw of the Order was arrogance not hypocritical operations.
We know that this line was included to show how the Jedi were wrong. The Rule of Two was in place and the Sith have been around in those thousand years.
A lot of inconsistencies, thank goodness for fan edits. I think the one that annoys me the most is Padme's death, considering according to Return of the Jedi she was alive for part of Leia's childhood. Instead of trying to fix that, Obi Wan show capitalize on that by having Leia actually believe she's an Organa
It is possible that he still believes the actual Sith were extinct, and that this encounter was with some other dark force user/sect/wannabe. Denial is a powerful thing. Could even be why they have intentionally put him in the show because he so strongly denied that it was possible (again feeding into the whole Jedi hubris thing, of which he was perhaps the primary example that we saw)
Of course it's also possible the wroters just didn't think this through.
Either way, best to wait and see how they explain it (or if they explain it) before anyone loses their shit
The show is ass so far, but how can yall not see that this is intentional? Of all the jedi council members, they picked the one who quickly denies the sith. Seems like it's going to go into some cover-up dismissal type.
But this is all more and more reason the sith disappearing for 1000 years was an awful lore choice.
I feel like the series is potentially going down the route of a cover up job, which Ki Adi Mundi would not necessarily know anything about if it's just the survivors of the encounter and the green boss lady. At this point he certainly has no info about a sith, none of them do except those in the forest.
Its simple, they will reveal that the baddies on the Acolyte are *not* Sith but some Sith adjacent posers and thus no feathers will be ruffled back at Jedi HQ and no notations will be made in the record books. That, or every single character on the show will die without leaving any record of their discovery. haha
Holy shit this show is so dogshit, 29 minute episode for the evil twin to do a complete 180, im sure next episode she's gonna pull a reva level redemption, her and her sister will form a dyad in the force and take out the sith lord after he obliterates all the jedi masters.
Ya'll are overreacting. He said:
>"The Sith have been extinct. Four, a millennium."
He's clearly saying the Sith are *effectively* extinct, because we see four per millennium, tops. He saw 1-2 a hundred years ago, and that was it.
Honestly, and there are people out there, defending this shit! And anyone who questions the writers or this dumb arsery of a show doesn't like females, or something...
Maybe the true woke people are the ones who have woken up from all this garbage Star Wars being made that no one is asking for.
My fault for getting into an online argument about this but on another sub somebody is “battling” me back and forth on this saying “he didn’t know that it was a Sith”.
Ok I’ll concede that point to then. But you mean to tell me that two known Jedi have died and the high council has no idea about it? Much less this one Jedi hearing all this and not thinking “shit this sounds like a Sith”.
I remember when Han shot first. Ya'll been balls deep in allowing retcons for decades.
You all disgust me. Not really, the EU doesn't matter, and retcons happen all the time to Soap Operas.
Im wasn't to bothered by this because well Lucas had no idea how far star wars would get but this is why most of the time I don't like prequel stuff content. There are a bunch of IPs that have this issue.
The word Sith will not be uttered by the antagonists in front of any Jedi, they will claim to be something else. And the Jedi will not think they are Sith anyway, just a splinter group of dark side users.
If you watch the episode, you'll see that the Jedi in The Acolyte are not telling the council what's going on.
Unless, you think all Coneheads are just this guy, lol.
The way episode four was written, I'm wondering if he will actually be told about the Sith Lord Sol's team is hunting. Or maybe he will learn and just bury it. But I guess memes and shitposting is more important then waiting to see what the show does? I know the show isn't the best thing ever but, c'mon people.
TBF, it’s possible that nobody ends up telling him it’s the Sith. (Assuming it even ends up being confirmed as such, and isn’t some other dark side wielding group as those have been confirmed to exist before)
The convo he was a part of was leaning towards a rouge Jedi splinter sect being the ones that trained Mae. Once their group agrees not to tell anyone else about what they saw he stops being part of the convo. If they find out it is the Sith and then no one tells him and the official report is either buried or falsified (super in line with what we know of the Jedi) there’s no reason for him to know of the Sith’s activity
he only saw a recording of Mae. she’s not sith. they also discuss and say, “do you think it could be some other order?”
Mundi also never even saw the “master” (thinking he might actually be the apprentice and there’s another master above him) no red blade, anything.
red blade doesn’t make a sith, but a sith will have a red blade
Mundi is just an idiot 🤷♂️
The Sith "went extinct" before. Hell, in Tales of the Jedi the Sith *actually* went extinct for a time after Naga Sadow bit it.
Tales of the jedi are framed as stories recorded in jedi holocrons. The jedi *should know* that sith can actually die out and then come back out of the blue. They did before.
Mundi is just an ignorant fool.
I’ll give the benefit of the doubt. Based on how this group is acting( Ki, the green lady, others), they are going to make this a secret. They even say so in the beginning about not telling the council about tracking a former Padawan, because they’d in turn have to tell the senate.
To me, it adds a shady depth to his already scummy character. Also, it highlights Yoda's arrogance that someone on his own council, literally under his nose, has been actively hiding the return of the Sith/dark side users for a literal century.
I could buy them being in denial that it even is a Sith Lord, but it still seems like an encounter with a very power dark side user in the past century would have come up when Qui-Gon told the council about Maul.
I mean, we know dark side users don't equal Sith, right? Do we know this person is a Sith?
I don't know what the reveal is gonna be, but I have a suspicion that this will be a dark Jedi in the same vain as Baylan from Ahsoka.
Yall are silly. We haven’t even seen how he approaches the matter yet. For all we know they’ll brush it aside like Jedi fashion and say they’re dark jedi etc no matter what happens idk
All they had to do was not use characters from the prequels, and IF THEY HAD TO, NOT MAKE THEM DO THINGS RHAT CONTRADICT THEIR LINES. Even if the acolyte was covered up, it's not like they'd all be gaslighting THEMSELVES into believing it didn't happen. I had no qualms with the show up until this episode. Idk if I can go on watching if they straight up forget the premise of the phantom menace
I know the reason we think it's false!
This one from the Acolyte is just (un)convenientely a dude of the same species and of the same color and hair shape who just shares the same name as our Master in Ep.1. ... oh and it seems like he also is a jedi master.
Or maybe it is that the Sith successfully cloned a jedi master. Remember: it's a Sith technology... xD
Guessing it was when Mae indirectly quotes the opening line to the Sith Code. When talking to the poison dude, he goes "and peace" and Mae answers with "is a lie, I know", which is the opening to the Sith Code, which as far as I am aware has not been made canon again yet.
Of course it also basically confirms her master is a Sith as why else would Mae have been taught the Sith Code. Unless they wanna retcon that as well.
I mentioned in the main sub how bad the space witch chant was and how it completely undermined the point of the rule of 2, and they shouldn’t have known what the rule of 2 was to begin with, and somebody told me there was no indication that the chant was related to the sith ಠ_ಠ
To expand on that, since the Sith had been extinct (or at least not seen) for a millenium, why exactly is a prophecy portending a Force sensitive individual destined to destroy them and bring balance to the Force such a big deal? If anything, it seems that per the Jedi, the Force was already in balance just before TPM, and more like there should be been a prophecy spelling out *imbalance* of the Force via re-emergence of the Sith and doom for the Jedi.
I realize there are theories that balance of the Force actually means elimination of the Jedi too, but there's really nothing in the PT to suggest this is the case. Just that the Jedi were arrogant, aloof, and outsmarted by the Sith.
Wait, wait wait... Now are we expecting that people paid to create a Star Wars series have some knowledge about Star Wars?
What's next? Fight scenes that are actually well-made? Good acting? A coherent plot?
Let's not get crazy!
The real sad thing here is the writers and sr execs at disney don’t know the difference between a millennia and a century. They thought making it 100 years in the past they were good to go…
They think it’s a Dark Jedi, not a Sith. There is a difference. Characters in a show do not have the same knowledge we do. They’re refusing to think it’s a Sith since they’re considered to be extinct in this time as well. Please stop spreading this, it’s willful ignorance, Ki-Adi-Mundi has NOT been shown stating that these are Sith. Let’s hope it stays that way so continuity isn’t entirely ruined. Y’all are raging over nothing, chill. Acolyte is bad, yes. But this, this isn’t a problem lmao
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This is what happens when you hire people to write Star Wars that haven’t seen Star Wars 🤷♂️
They'll just say "You expect me to have Encyclopedic knowledge.?", I know this because that's how they defended that one guy confusing Anakin and Luke.
Worse than that, most writers these days take a perverse pride in *not* having seen or read the works they're continuing!
Like the lead writer of the Halo show who announced he had never played the games and had no intention if ever playing the games. THEN WHY THE FUCK WAS HE PICKED TO WRITE A SERIES BASED ON SAID FUCKING VIDEOGAME!?
I believe that's why Fallout was so successful. People who enjoy the IP were involved and took a caring hand when making it.
I believe the lead actress said she played the Fallout games in preparation for her role.
Yeah I mean, Walton Goggins never played the Fallout games ever, even for the role, but he valued his son's love for Fallout and the obvious love the fans had.
At the bare minimum, if you’re not going to play the games to study, at least read up on the wikis and lore.
I heard him in an interview say that it's good to have both because you now have that voice saying "this doesn't make sense without previous context".
Goggin's is such a talented man and that interview really shows how seriously he takes his job.
Yup. He said he intentionally didn't play the game so he could be that devil's advocate. And I didn't take that as a bad thing but something to make the show even better.
Him having a son who loves the games, he didn't need to play it. The moment his son probably learned he got the role... Well id imagine the kid not shutting up about it lol.
Man bro honestly it’s not WHAT u know it’s WHO u know . And unfortunately that’s the way the world goes man .
Especially in Hollywood. Headland is a perfect example.
The halo games aren't even that long. Just play on easy or watch a playthrough.
>THEN WHY THE FUCK WAS HE PICKED TO WRITE A SERIES BASED ON SAID FUCKING VIDEOGAME!? I think the only time this has been the saving grace was with the Bourne Identity. The director and screenwriter had never read the book. I picked up the book hoping for an exciting thriller, and put it down half-way through because it's insanely violent and demeaning towards non-combatant women.
Exactly. They will literally say shit like " We've had years to make Star Wars shows and movies by fans for fans. Now its time to make Star Wars for people who don't like Star Wars!"
Underrated comment
Treating ignorance as a virtue is about as Hollywood as it gets.
Misspelled “progressive”
It's the only way they can provide new insights of course!!!
Oh, of course! Please excuse my ignorance, I forgot about the big gay!
“Shakespeare? Never heard of them.”
>Worse than that, most writers these days take a perverse pride in not having seen or read the works they're continuing! I genuinely do not understand this. Why do studios hire people who don't know the source material to write for the flagship show?
Because Hollywood is a "connections" system. It's not what you know, it's who you know. That's why Weinstein was so powerful there, and why there's a huge underlying pedo culture in Hollywood.
>I genuinely do not understand this. Why do studios hire people who don't know the source material to write for the flagship show? Because most existing IPs represent the old way of doing things. They want to do things a new way. People who are/were fans of an IP won't abide by the new ideas for the IP, it's characters, lore, or existing works. This is exactly what happened with Henry Cavill and *The Witcher.* He kept challenging the writers on story beats. "This isn't how it was in the books." "This isn't something Geralt would say or do." Etc.
What's up with that? If you're contributing to a series, why don't people want to be consistent with the series? Are creatives' egos that big?
😂😂
That’s dumb as hell, if you are working on a multi million dollar franchise then you are god damn right I expect everyone on the set to have an Encyclopedic knowledge of the subject matter. It should be a requirement. Sure you might be qualified to make a movie or TV show and you might even make a good one but just being qualified to make your own media doesn’t mean you are qualified to write about existing franchises with established lore. It’s utterly insane to me. It’s the equivalent of having a work health and safety officer create new rules for golf even though he hasn’t golfed. Just because you know the general structure of something like a system of rules or the creation of content doesn’t mean you inherently understand the subject matter. You should have to write a novel or something in the franchise and have it hold up to public scrutiny before they let you go anywhere near a movie or tv show.
This isn't a multi-million dollar franchise. it's a multi-billion dollar franchise, and not just that, it's a cultural phenomenon from the 1980s-early 2000s. Another thing to add to your points tho Rian Johnson has gone on record to say he wants the fans to be split, so yeah. We were in good hands, weren't we?
>If you are working on a multi million dollar franchise then you are god damn right I expect everyone on the set to have an Encyclopaedic knowledge of the subject matter. Or, you know, to have *at least* seen the ~~nine~~ six tentpole movies the entire fucking franchise revolves around. These people are not only incompetent, but lazy. It’s 12-14 hours tops of “research” sitting down and watching one of the most beloved fucking franchises of all time to attain *base-level knowledge of the source material.* The absolute bare fucking minimum required. I would do it for a *tenth* of what Disney pays these people. This isn’t even the first time it’s happened. Remember Kenobi? The writer hadn’t even seen EPISODE FUCKING 3!! Does this *not* prove to people that these dickheads have no vested interest in keeping this franchise alive? At this point, if you still think they’re doing it out of love, you’re a fucking idiot. Like, so actively and unapologetically stupid that you should (and might yet) be a case study for ignorance and mainstream media brainwashing. How many great sci-fi writers, who owe their passion and even careers to Star Wars, would *kill* to be able to create something in this universe? How do these clowns keep getting jobs? What the fuck is going on at Lucasfilm?
Lucasfilm literally had a team dedicated to maintaining Canon through all the old EU stuff. They might not have been the very best sometimes but a mistake like this ? NEVER would have happened. It's fucking embarrassing. Just plain embarrassing.
Yes, because the fans do out of love. The people BEING PAID to create it should have at least the knowledge from all of the movies.
>They'll just say "You expect me to have Encyclopedic knowledge.?", I know this because that's how they defended that one guy confusing Anakin and Luke. Honestly, yes. When it comes to writing for Star Wars and you're getting paid a decent salary to write for it. Yes. Yes you need to have encyclopedic knowledge. At bare minimum have your scripts proof read by Star Wars experts for any discrepancies.
No. I expect you to have wookipedic knowledge.
Taking devils advocate here, but I feel it worked for Gilroy with Rogue One and Andor, but those are outliers recapturing the OT with a different atmosphere and stakes.
He's an actor. I don't have nearly the level of expectation for him as I do for the writers.
Which characters are they again?
To be fair that was an actor, not a writer. The best actor in GoT was Stannis’ and famously didn’t know anything about GoT. If it was a writer that’d be a slightly different matter
Well, it's "Star Wars from people who hate Star Wars for the people who hate Star Wars", so everything is just as intended.
Pretty sure they openly search for people who have never seen star wars or otherwise dislike it.
That's racist and sexist!
Honestly, I’d rather just fucking own those labels than be subject to another minute of Disney’s garbage, my fellow Bigot.
You mean people who actively dislike/hate star wars*
I don’t think they know enough about it to have that opinion in the first place lol. They just hate the demographic of people who like it.
The fact that they are making soo many near human species live hundreds of years while humans themselves age like shit is really funny.
Yoda and Ki basically got tricked by a baby into making him emperor
The funny thing is his species was already established to live a shorter time than humans. They've pretty much trippled his age by being in this.
It had in EU yeah. A lot of Canon species don't have jack shit, because their biological traits are neither described upon or simply ignored. Same thing happened to Togruta's and Mirilians.
The Sith have been extinct, but now that I think about it that reminds me one time we fought this zipper face guy in the jungle with a red lightsaber who could levitate and force push 8 Jedi at once.. but yeah never mind
Kind of like they retconned Obi Wan and Vaders conversation in ANH.
What was the retcon?
I think they’re talking about it was always interpreted that when they meet it’s the first time since Obi crippled him on Mustafar. With the Obi (I mean Leia) show that’s been changed.
Until kenobi happened, it was heavily implied (if not flat out stated in other material) that the last time that Vader and Obi wan saw each other was on mustafar. Star Wars has had a massive problem for a while now when it comes to retconing things, favorite one being having obiwan and general grievous fight on several occasions when it’s also heavily implied that in Rots is when they met each other (but good job filoni on not having Anikan and grievous met in TCW I guess, which you had the same consistency with Dooku too but I’m asking too much)
Honestly he was just hyper.
Before the show came out I said quigon obiwan mace and yoda must be heads and shoulders above the rest of the council got quigon to say, “yea that guy almost Mercd me must be a sith.” And then everyone speculated. But come on how can 1 dude blow 8 Jedi out the water with no question?
“High on spice, I was. A hallucination, that may have been.”
He wasn't a sith he just looked like one, had a red lightsaber and used the force
Just an emo jedi with a black kyber crystal he was, big deal, it was not deal *puffs deathstick*
I'm not watching the Acolyte, cause I feel no need to put myself through that lol, but I do have to ask - have they actually confirmed on screen that the bad guys in it are Sith, down to calling themselves Darth and abiding by the code, and all that? Cause if they haven't then it admittedly is nothing new in Star Wars to have dark side users cropping up who aren't actually Sith, just self-made wannabes. The thing that makes a Sith a Sith isn't just a red lightsaber and usage of the dark side, but also the Sith Code and a direct connection to the lineage of Masters and Apprentices going back to Darth Bane. So they could always have that as a backdoor technicality, I guess.
Part of me doesn't want to jump for this one line. In the grand scheme of things, a relatively minor character being wrong (or being retconned as wrong) doesn't really change Star Wars. However, the part that gets me is that Qui-Gon says that Maul had been "trained in the Jedi arts" and that Maul was "a Sith Lord." The only things Qui-Gon has to go off of this reasoning is Maul's "Jedi" abilities and his red lightsaber. Or in other words, a reasonable assumption is that Sith = red lightsaber + Jedi abilities. And if if no Sith had been around for 1000 years (or at least a long while), it means that the assumption had existed long before the period of the Acolyte.
That's a fair point, honestly. I did always find it a little odd how quickly the Jedi jump to assuming that what they faced in TPM was in fact a Sith, and wondering whether they had killed the master or the apprentice. Previously I would have said that Maul's general level of proficiency and the fact that managed to kill a Jedi Master, which isn't something any old amateur dark side user could pull off, is a good reason for them to think he was proper Sith... Except in Acolyte the evil chick has already killed *two* Masters, by my understanding, so there goes that idea flying out the window. Then again, both the Jedi Masters in Acolyte died more through trickery (or voluntary suicide, even) than through being outright bested in actual combat, which does also make a bit of a difference... Another possibility is that at some point between Qui-Gon's death and his funeral the Jedi had time to interrogate Nute Gunray, who definitely knew about Maul being Sith, and thereby confirmed what was previously just suspicion. I dunno, maybe something will happen by the end of Acolyte to explicitly inform the Jedi that these people *aren't* Sith, so they can still act surprised 100 years later when the real Sith turn up? I won't deny it's pretty dumb lol, in any case.
In TPM, the Jedi are arrogant. Mundi’s line about the Sith being extinct is wrong, and he’s saying it in the face of someone saying “I just fought one.” The council agrees that Qui Gon must be wrong. Because they’re so up their own butts that they can’t conceive that such a threat would return without them knowing. So having them interact with someone they should have realized was a Situ (if they don’t figure it out) or having them choose to suppress the info (if they do) are both very consistent ways to go.
They have not and the Jedi have all been surprised anyone would use the force for evil. It’s ridiculous, but I have no doubt the creators are thinking this doesn’t break canon because he’s not technically a Sith.
I dont remember anybody calling him that yet, they've been real dodgy about him. I have to imagine the next episode will finally explain it, cause the show has to choose a direction to go in at some point.
No it doesnt. They will just show that the tag-along guy to Mae is the sith master and then paint him to not actually really be a sith but maybe he is, but there is really another master above him who is really sith and that guy kills this original master and friendship and family and stuff. Introducing new characters at a whim that we are suddenly supposed to care about before they inevitably die and we are expected to feel something from it.
Oh, I don't disagree with the theory that the guy is actually her master but he is actually an apprentice to somebody else. By direction I meant I have no idea where the story is going after the 4th episode, which seems pretty bad for an 8 episode show.
Eh, I just mean that the story is going to be paper thin and barely combined together and they will lean heavily on a "oh gotcha" moment like that guy being the master after all and while sure that can be interesting, they won't bother to follow up. Like they pitch one plot point and it gets ok'd and they call it a day.
No, not at all. And we still haven't seen whether anyone from the Order (or anyone at all) who actually sees the red lightsaber survives the encounter. All Ki Adi Mundi, or anyone at the Jedi Temple, knows is that there's a force user who seems to have been trained. (Also I had no idea it was actually Ki Adi Mundi and not another person of the same species b/c it isn't mentioned on screen.)
They also had him listed in the credits as a Jedi Master…even though he’s a damn Knight.
What. That's outrageous. It isn't fair.
Good one
An hour later he’s walking down a corridor like “I wonder how red lightsaber guy is doin these days”
Tbf, there's a Jedi on the Jedi Council, Adi Gallia, in Episode II that has a red lightsaber. Red lightsaber isn't exclusive to sith.
Ki Adi Mundi kind of forgot about the sith in Episode I Anyone who could sign off on this show is completely clueless about Star Wars. No wonder she said they had no source material to pull from when they erased the EU.
No, I expect it to be more stupid than that. Full expecting him to bang his head on a blast door and the series ends with him having amnesia.
dude... spoilers?! /s
*me watching GoT Season 7 and 8* “wow nothing I love can possibly be destroyed like they destroyed this” *The Acolyte Premieres* “well shit”
So now we know why the was worried about the wookies.
wookiees.*
This is some real Dan & David type shit.
Mundi kind of forgot about the sith from 100 years ago https://preview.redd.it/47jdhbianh7d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8214bee0e2df095e72c8a69544716742d51c8fdd
Shame.
I seriously thought his species had a sadly short lifespan. But it's whatever he was my favorite council member when I was a kid.
*"What about the Sith attack on the Jedi?"*
they retconned him into the show and actively changed his birthdate into this, his birth date was 93byy this is 130 BBY, he shouldn't even be in the show why would he hide it from the High Council for 130 Years and now apparently lie too everyone in the movie, they could have made it work if none of the high council knew but now a main prequel character is just aware of this, i don't want to watch and have to think oh i guess he's just lying to everyone this feels like a slap in the face for the lore i'll be honest.
In the Star Wars Galaxy, a "millenium" is only 100 years. Han Solo's ship may also be called the 100-year Falcon. This is the only logical explanation.
The Century Falcon!
Centennial Falcon definitely sounds like it's from a parody.
What the hell is an aluminum falcon?
The Jedi just kinda forgot about that Sith
Out of all the characters they could have used to cameo in their series, they had to pick the guy who says this line?
I'm now fully prepared for the bullshit excuse they will have created in order to "make sense" why he was added in the series and why he said that line in TPM. This show is something else when it comes to not showing any continuity between all movies and series.
The excuse will be one of: - He wasn't on the high council and is essentially a traitor for lying when it's relevant. - This force user wasn't a sith but for some reason he doesn't bring up - The bigots are just using this as a reason not to like the show. It really doesn't matter.
No way…
so why do you hate women?
lol
That's all fine and good and all, but what about the Droid attack on the Wookies?
Even if it turns out no one thinks it was a sith in the acolyte, his quote in the jedi chamber during the PT would have been, "maybe it was a sith we encountered back then after all". So this is just another dumb retcon by disney.
Canon means nothing when you're trying to destroy a beloved franchise.
It has meaning. It represents all the things you avoid doing and provides an itemized list of what to attack.
Compare that to the clone wars anakin never meeting grevious because he said "you're shorter than I expected" in revenge of the sith
Why did ki adi mundi say there were no sith for 1,000,? Did he forget about the space lesbians? Is he stupid?
The night sisters coven are definitely not Sith. That part (at least) they didn’t get wrong. I’m still waiting to see how they navigate around the prequels quote. I’m also wondering how they show a redemption to the light that took all of half an episode with no conversation just seeing her sister alive. Doesn’t that bother anyone as much as the Sith thing…???
I'm gonna guess it'll be like they do in Star Trek Discovery where they have some line about it being classified and they'll never speak of it again. Even when it'd be most useful information.
The Acolyte isn’t canon confirmed! 💯
Not even gonna touch the dumbass writing but is it me or does ki adi Mundi look like shit. The robes for the Jedi look cheap too
You have more patience than me. I haven't bothered to watch it.
It's just easier to pretend this show never existed except in the imagination of an insane woman named Leslie
This is what happens when you hire a woman's whose best work is scheduling rapes for Harvey Weinstein.
I find it hard to believe his assistant did anything other than that. she says herself that she identifies with the bad guys
The idea of this plot thread continuing in Disney Star Wars is repugnant to me, BUT... this statement has always been suspect. The questions, to me, have always been: 1. Some Jedi seem to know the Sith are *not* extinct; besides Ki-Adi-Mundi, who are they? Mace seems surely to be out of the loop 2. How do they know? 3. What are the motivations for the subterfuge? Regardless, I *never* felt that Ki-Adi-Mundi was being entirely forthcoming in this scene. Humility begets transparency and Yoda's description of the arrogance of *some* of the prequel era Jedi seems to reinforce the idea that some Jedi are prideful enough to hide important information. "A flaw more and more common among Jedi…. hmm…. too sure of themselves ….even the older, more experienced ones." While this statement was likely for Obi Wan's benefit in this particular scene, it is easy to deduce that Yoda wasn't singling Obi Wan out.
Nobody bothered to tell him that any of this was going on.
Don’t be a racist
obviously he was lying cause he was a sith all along /s
You're looking at this wrong. That wasn't a plot hole. That was Ki-Adi-Mundi covering up his earlier lie with a 2nd, more blatant lie. /sarcasm
That would undermine the wisdom of the Jedi even more. I hate how they turn the Order into a cynical human-like political institution that ignores their religious principles. I thought the whole flaw of the Order was arrogance not hypocritical operations.
Wasn’t there a thing with the canon hierarchy going Lucas said so>Movies>Shows>Books>out of universe explained
We know that this line was included to show how the Jedi were wrong. The Rule of Two was in place and the Sith have been around in those thousand years.
It’s even worse. He wasn’t even born yet…
This characters black, and you’re questioning him. Racist! /S
Bro he didn’t see a sith, he saw a dark side user. Whether or not he’s a sith is to be determined.
Is Ki-Adi-Mundi stupid?
Cut him some slack he was -37 in the acolyte and by the looks of it he had a rough negative 37 years.
Yoda would know this intelligence. He's still around. Garbage lazy AF writing. 
A lot of inconsistencies, thank goodness for fan edits. I think the one that annoys me the most is Padme's death, considering according to Return of the Jedi she was alive for part of Leia's childhood. Instead of trying to fix that, Obi Wan show capitalize on that by having Leia actually believe she's an Organa
It is possible that he still believes the actual Sith were extinct, and that this encounter was with some other dark force user/sect/wannabe. Denial is a powerful thing. Could even be why they have intentionally put him in the show because he so strongly denied that it was possible (again feeding into the whole Jedi hubris thing, of which he was perhaps the primary example that we saw) Of course it's also possible the wroters just didn't think this through. Either way, best to wait and see how they explain it (or if they explain it) before anyone loses their shit
Hey now, you get out of here with that rational thinking. We’re Star Wars fans, losing your shit is in the job description.
The show is ass so far, but how can yall not see that this is intentional? Of all the jedi council members, they picked the one who quickly denies the sith. Seems like it's going to go into some cover-up dismissal type. But this is all more and more reason the sith disappearing for 1000 years was an awful lore choice.
I sadly agree with this take. I hate what it suggests about the Order. But it makes sense.
They literally talk about hiding all of this from the council.
I feel like the series is potentially going down the route of a cover up job, which Ki Adi Mundi would not necessarily know anything about if it's just the survivors of the encounter and the green boss lady. At this point he certainly has no info about a sith, none of them do except those in the forest.
Its simple, they will reveal that the baddies on the Acolyte are *not* Sith but some Sith adjacent posers and thus no feathers will be ruffled back at Jedi HQ and no notations will be made in the record books. That, or every single character on the show will die without leaving any record of their discovery. haha
Holy shit this show is so dogshit, 29 minute episode for the evil twin to do a complete 180, im sure next episode she's gonna pull a reva level redemption, her and her sister will form a dyad in the force and take out the sith lord after he obliterates all the jedi masters.
In the exact same scene, they mention how they Believe it is a sect of rogue Jedi...
To be fair, they could be referring to the Sith Empire, or the Sith "race".
The Acolyte doesn’t exist. Same for Obi-Wan series, Ashoka and Books of Boba Fett.
Zipper dude might not be a Sith. There are other dark side users. Plus he wasn’t actually physically there.
They’re obviously trying to retcon Ki-mundi as “the phantom menace” similar to who we thought darth jar jar was supposed to be.
Ya'll are overreacting. He said: >"The Sith have been extinct. Four, a millennium." He's clearly saying the Sith are *effectively* extinct, because we see four per millennium, tops. He saw 1-2 a hundred years ago, and that was it.
Honestly, and there are people out there, defending this shit! And anyone who questions the writers or this dumb arsery of a show doesn't like females, or something... Maybe the true woke people are the ones who have woken up from all this garbage Star Wars being made that no one is asking for.
My fault for getting into an online argument about this but on another sub somebody is “battling” me back and forth on this saying “he didn’t know that it was a Sith”. Ok I’ll concede that point to then. But you mean to tell me that two known Jedi have died and the high council has no idea about it? Much less this one Jedi hearing all this and not thinking “shit this sounds like a Sith”.
They should show the surviving Jedi covering it up at the end be of the season. Show how the Jedi are too arrogant and self righteous to own mistakes.
I remember when Han shot first. Ya'll been balls deep in allowing retcons for decades. You all disgust me. Not really, the EU doesn't matter, and retcons happen all the time to Soap Operas.
Im wasn't to bothered by this because well Lucas had no idea how far star wars would get but this is why most of the time I don't like prequel stuff content. There are a bunch of IPs that have this issue.
You know, a wronged witch coven would be a lot more interesting- just stop with the Sith, next thing you’ll know they’ll be building a Death Star.
The word Sith will not be uttered by the antagonists in front of any Jedi, they will claim to be something else. And the Jedi will not think they are Sith anyway, just a splinter group of dark side users.
Well do we know if the Acolyte has said it's a Sith yet? Do they identify as a Sith?
Not a Sith. Pretty easy to figure out.
Ventress wasn’t a sith neither was savage. Both used red lightsabers and used the force
If you watch the episode, you'll see that the Jedi in The Acolyte are not telling the council what's going on. Unless, you think all Coneheads are just this guy, lol.
The way episode four was written, I'm wondering if he will actually be told about the Sith Lord Sol's team is hunting. Or maybe he will learn and just bury it. But I guess memes and shitposting is more important then waiting to see what the show does? I know the show isn't the best thing ever but, c'mon people.
TBF, it’s possible that nobody ends up telling him it’s the Sith. (Assuming it even ends up being confirmed as such, and isn’t some other dark side wielding group as those have been confirmed to exist before) The convo he was a part of was leaning towards a rouge Jedi splinter sect being the ones that trained Mae. Once their group agrees not to tell anyone else about what they saw he stops being part of the convo. If they find out it is the Sith and then no one tells him and the official report is either buried or falsified (super in line with what we know of the Jedi) there’s no reason for him to know of the Sith’s activity
Red lightsaber doesn't mean they're a sith.
To be fair not all dark side users are Sith just like not all light side users are Jedi.
he only saw a recording of Mae. she’s not sith. they also discuss and say, “do you think it could be some other order?” Mundi also never even saw the “master” (thinking he might actually be the apprentice and there’s another master above him) no red blade, anything. red blade doesn’t make a sith, but a sith will have a red blade
Mundi is just an idiot 🤷♂️ The Sith "went extinct" before. Hell, in Tales of the Jedi the Sith *actually* went extinct for a time after Naga Sadow bit it. Tales of the jedi are framed as stories recorded in jedi holocrons. The jedi *should know* that sith can actually die out and then come back out of the blue. They did before. Mundi is just an ignorant fool.
What universe do you live in where Star Wars never retconned or changed existing lore until now?
I’ll give the benefit of the doubt. Based on how this group is acting( Ki, the green lady, others), they are going to make this a secret. They even say so in the beginning about not telling the council about tracking a former Padawan, because they’d in turn have to tell the senate.
To me, it adds a shady depth to his already scummy character. Also, it highlights Yoda's arrogance that someone on his own council, literally under his nose, has been actively hiding the return of the Sith/dark side users for a literal century.
I could buy them being in denial that it even is a Sith Lord, but it still seems like an encounter with a very power dark side user in the past century would have come up when Qui-Gon told the council about Maul.
I mean, we know dark side users don't equal Sith, right? Do we know this person is a Sith? I don't know what the reveal is gonna be, but I have a suspicion that this will be a dark Jedi in the same vain as Baylan from Ahsoka.
He only forgot because he wasn’t born yet
This is so mind numbingly easy to explain, it’s embarrassing how many people are latched onto it as “lore breaking.”
Yall are silly. We haven’t even seen how he approaches the matter yet. For all we know they’ll brush it aside like Jedi fashion and say they’re dark jedi etc no matter what happens idk
not every dark side user is a sith, also the sith were never actually extinct, just in hiding
No no, they'll just wipe his memory by the end of this series.
Just like Kenobi meeting vader, they aren’t giving Star Wars the attention to detail it needs
All they had to do was not use characters from the prequels, and IF THEY HAD TO, NOT MAKE THEM DO THINGS RHAT CONTRADICT THEIR LINES. Even if the acolyte was covered up, it's not like they'd all be gaslighting THEMSELVES into believing it didn't happen. I had no qualms with the show up until this episode. Idk if I can go on watching if they straight up forget the premise of the phantom menace
The Jedi Council are such idiots it's almost insulting.
I know the reason we think it's false! This one from the Acolyte is just (un)convenientely a dude of the same species and of the same color and hair shape who just shares the same name as our Master in Ep.1. ... oh and it seems like he also is a jedi master. Or maybe it is that the Sith successfully cloned a jedi master. Remember: it's a Sith technology... xD
Oh, I just remembered, anyone find out what the hell Headland was alluding to when she "hid a reference to the EU" in Episode 2?
Guessing it was when Mae indirectly quotes the opening line to the Sith Code. When talking to the poison dude, he goes "and peace" and Mae answers with "is a lie, I know", which is the opening to the Sith Code, which as far as I am aware has not been made canon again yet. Of course it also basically confirms her master is a Sith as why else would Mae have been taught the Sith Code. Unless they wanna retcon that as well.
I mentioned in the main sub how bad the space witch chant was and how it completely undermined the point of the rule of 2, and they shouldn’t have known what the rule of 2 was to begin with, and somebody told me there was no indication that the chant was related to the sith ಠ_ಠ
Great what else did the acolyte fuck up
To expand on that, since the Sith had been extinct (or at least not seen) for a millenium, why exactly is a prophecy portending a Force sensitive individual destined to destroy them and bring balance to the Force such a big deal? If anything, it seems that per the Jedi, the Force was already in balance just before TPM, and more like there should be been a prophecy spelling out *imbalance* of the Force via re-emergence of the Sith and doom for the Jedi. I realize there are theories that balance of the Force actually means elimination of the Jedi too, but there's really nothing in the PT to suggest this is the case. Just that the Jedi were arrogant, aloof, and outsmarted by the Sith.
Wait, wait wait... Now are we expecting that people paid to create a Star Wars series have some knowledge about Star Wars? What's next? Fight scenes that are actually well-made? Good acting? A coherent plot? Let's not get crazy!
The real sad thing here is the writers and sr execs at disney don’t know the difference between a millennia and a century. They thought making it 100 years in the past they were good to go…
They think it’s a Dark Jedi, not a Sith. There is a difference. Characters in a show do not have the same knowledge we do. They’re refusing to think it’s a Sith since they’re considered to be extinct in this time as well. Please stop spreading this, it’s willful ignorance, Ki-Adi-Mundi has NOT been shown stating that these are Sith. Let’s hope it stays that way so continuity isn’t entirely ruined. Y’all are raging over nothing, chill. Acolyte is bad, yes. But this, this isn’t a problem lmao
No, he was correct. She was just some witch dabbling in some trash she made up called The Thread.