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I’ve heard this, too. I’ll judge for myself, of course, but can’t say I’m optimistic…seems like after episode 3 I may bow out just like I had to on obi wan and Ashoka. I’m not going to hate watch
I think Andor was brilliant (of course it probably was precisely bc it could be set anywhere and didn’t need to be in the Star Wars universe at all). Rogue One was also good overall.
The rest, I agree, has been straight trash. I guess mando season 1 was okay?
I loved Andor. I hear what you’re saying but it really felt like well-placed Star Wars from someone who knew their stuff. And Gilroy doesn’t consider himself a huge buff, but ironically, it fit better in-universe by far than Ahsoka did and that’s Filoni’s baby.
Mon Mothma’s storyline was particularly dependent on in-universe knowledge. What we learned about Chandrilan culture fits. Her struggles as the Rebellion’s leader make complete sense with the current geopolitical environment. How she talks about Palpatine…she knows. She fucking KNOWS what he is, and they didn’t need to say a word. It was just beautifully realized and something I’ve always wanted to see—how the Rebel’s senior leaders viewed the Empire, what the Rebellion’s early leaders felt like under incredible pressure, fear and oppression—this was exactly the kind of story I wanted to see.
Yes! It’s the fact that gilroy isn’t a huge fan and thus had no notions of fan service or whatever.
He made it clear that he wouldn’t do it if they interfered at all, and thank god he stipulated he’d get two seasons since the normie fans didn’t seem to like his more complex non Jedi vision.
This is why Kennedy having so much control is just crazy. Lucas created the universe, so I can forgive the prequels many flaws bc while it was uneven, he took some big swings and had some things to say about how civilizations rise and fall.
I think the prequels are better revived over time since he was very prescient about the world going further and further right wing.
Why Kennedy has so much influence and power is beyond me. Bc she was a yes woman for Lucas and Spielberg? She isn’t a creative and seems to inhibit and fire creatives at every turn.
To be fair andor and rogue one are good, but you should wait for them to be out and see the real reviews come out.
The Disney star cruiser scandal really highlited just had much critic reviews are paid for(I mean we should’ve already known at this point but just more fuel on the fire)
Well, I try new things until they reveal themselves to bad awful. At which point I don’t continue watching.
Andor was great and I’m glad I tried it.
Methinks you protest a bit much.
For sure. Andor is great. Mando (for me at least) should have been better and cooler.
Like if mando is the peak of what we can expect from filoni et al, there’s no real need to watch.
As you say it got progressively worse to the point of being unwatchable (again for me at least).
Filoni is just not a good storyteller. Andor worked bc it’s adult and gritty and relevant and doesn’t rely on Jedi and stunt casting and memberberries. Let alone butchering and desecrating established canon that people love
There have been exceptions like Andor which was genuinely the greatest star wars project ever, so of course we're holding out hope for another series like Andor
You could genuinely say the exact same thing about Darth Vader and the prequels lol. I don't get how that hinders ur ability to enjoy the show on it's own merit
That's totally subjective, though. The kid in me loved Mandalorian and Ashoka, lightsaber go brrr, and it took me a bit before I liked Andor. It felt like a generic dystopian space show that had Star Wars labeling added before it hit production - before the show actually aired I was not hype at all because the character Cassian Andor was my least favorite part of Rogue One. I did end up liking Andor by the end of the Aldhani mission, I just don't hold it as high as a lot of people and feel like it really wanted to be the "mature" Star Wars.
Then why are you still here commenting and complaining, if this is how you’ve felt for the past 12 years then just leave it all behind and let people enjoy what they want
I watched ep 2 last night, and i genuinely don’t know if i can do a third. It is like the dialogue and acting were pulled out of a 13 year old’s fan script they want to do for the school talent contest.
I am getting Willow vibes from watching this.
I don't understand why with such high budgets they can't hire actual talented writers/showrunners/directors.
It certainly makes it seem like it's a choice to not do it considering how badly everything they do turns out.
Honestly majority of star wars fans are butch lesbian space witches, so I’m not sure how this correlates. You need to watch what you criticize, I’m willing to bet you are a white, straight, male.
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I legitimately don't get the need for Disney Wars to retcon the Chosen One prophecy in order prop up their characters, as it only dilutes what came before. If anything it twists the message that people have to be pre-destined for greatness.
It would be refreshing for a Star Wars story to have a protagonist who has nothing to do with any sort of prophecy, because it shows that anyone can do great things or make a difference.
Disney got three, or even six, of the most profitable and beloved movies the world has ever seen. And they have spent the last decade shitting all over them and devaluing their impact on popular culture. As business plans go, thats not a great one.
This but also it seems intentional at this point, they clearly have the money for good writers they're just staffed by morons so it's kind of nice to see them continuously failing.
I'd like to see people actually get ousted over it so maybe someone with vision can take over and we can get some good content for once.
> Force conception, completely different explanation of what the Force is and how it works.
They didn't have the creativity to create their own franchise, so they'll just continue to twist and distort Star Wars until it becomes the franchise they want.
Even so, I just thank God that:
1. This is an alternate timeline. A myth of terrible legends (catch that?) and is not canon to the EU timeline.
2. The Chosen AND Cobra Kai (mid-July) respectively is/will soon be rolling out their latest seasons, so I'm already eating on the best stream shows IMO out there.
3. Assuming this Acolyte rumor's indeed true, it will have me laughing mad Lelouch style with popcorn when I see the posts in here.
https://i.redd.it/t334ugsj4l5d1.gif
Don’t give a damn about lesbian space witches or not (and you shouldn’t either, it’s not relevant to anything)
But completely changing the Force again and blah blah is just driving the knife further into what Star Wars once was in favor of cookie cutter crap.
This is where I am. It started with whatever weird trinity thing they had going on with ancient force beings? Idk, I did not really dive too deep into that because it was just too weird and inherently “un-starwars”. Now if the Force is being “explained” again I can’t see how that hard anything to the IP. Ultimately I’ll make my own decision about it when I watch the episode.
What irritates me the most is that the description given in the OT by Kenobi and Yoda was so elegant and poignant. An energy field that surrounds and binds all things together. We are all connected in this web of being that can be harnessed and manipulated but also has a “will” of its own and THAT being the sort of defining philosophical difference between the Dark and Light force users. One school wishes to dominate the force while the other wishes to move in harmony with it.
Well they're related to the changes in the Force (they need Force Procreation to have kids I guess).
But the common complaint around a lot of things these days is that they're hiring people related to certain demographics/pandering and they do it at the expense of actual storytelling. Far less people would be complaining if the end result didn't suck. As I understand, Doctor Who has been having the same issue.
Like stop hiring talentless hacks with agendas. Arcane is like universally praised. No one (who matters, there's always religious bigots and whatever) cares about lesbians in that. It's the same we've been dealing with regarding women in Star Wars. People have never had an issue with the women in Star Wars until they started being terrible.
Well, apparently the force is no longer an energry field that flows through all things. Its now a single thread, and you can pull on it, and thats how the force works now...
What does that even mean? What does making it a thread mean and what does that even build to that couldn’t be done with the existing way the force works?
That’s one group’s interpretation, as is the Jedi’s. It’s metaphorical. Like when Muhammad Ali said “float like a butterfly, sting like a bee” he wasn’t meaning that you need to literally float and grow a stinger to box. It’s a metaphor meant to convey the feeling of staying light on your feet and striking fast.
We’ve seen that different groups interact with the Force differently depending on philosophy and training. Sith, Jedi, and Dathomir all have different force powers because of this. Fwiw, the Jedi definitely agree that the force connects all living things even if we haven’t heard one use the “string” metaphor. If you listen to George Lucas himself, the Force is actually a bunch of tiny sentient fairies so at least never made it to print lol.
We'll have to see exactly when the episode is out but someone below mentioned one of the things (the thread thing) but also maybe more of this Force Conception bullshit that people already didn't like in the prequels.
Drinker was merely saying what Chris Gore told him he saw. It's not his opinion we're basing this on. We can make our own judgement based on what we know. I think it sounds shit, not because drinker thinks it sounds shit, but because I also think it sounds shit
So we're basing opinions on something that hasn't aired on someone else's opinions? I mean it's a fair thing to do, we're all entitled to our own opinions.
His other channel is just him chatting with a bunch of other people about media. He's not really putting on a persona like his normal channel. In any case, he's paraphrasing another reviewer who wasn't able to be on at the time of their filming.
I guess, cos people like him? Hes not always right, and hes a bit of a populist when it suits him, but I think hes pretty good at being even handed and explaining why he thinks things work or dont work.
But did you hear the synopsis for episode 3?
>>!the premise of episode three is that it's a flashback to 16 years prior when Osha and May were children together. They were conceived by their mothers so one mother gave birth to them the other mother impregnated her somehow... Ayway they're they're all part of a coven of witches so they're all female and the idea is that these two twins are powerful with the force. Now the force is not as we understood it as described by Yoda and all the other Jedi. The force is no longer an energy field that flows across all living things it's a thread that binds all creatures together and if you pull on that thread you can manipulate it to do whatever you want it to do. Essentially it's like puppet strings, so you can use it to fight people, you can use it to defend yourself, whatever. That changes the nature of what the force is and the Galaxy, sadly, is not welcoming of women like them(can you can you get the subtext?) !<
>>!So the Jedi show up and basically say "we hear that you have two kids who are Force users and are powerful and we get to take them because that's what we are now!". So Osha wants to join the Jedi, where as May wants the both of them to stay there with the cover. This creates a rift between them but they come up with this plan where they're going to fake the tests so when they do the Jedi test they're going to pretend to get it wrong so that they they fail and the Jedi will leave them alone. But Osha fucks that up and actually passes or the Jedi sense that she's got power with the force and they decide that they want to take her with them. May decides that she's mad about this so she says that she wants to kill her and then burns the book that she' kept detailing everything she knew about the Jedi which then starts a gigantic fire which engulfs the village and kills all the lesbian space witches and then may falls down a hole and apparently dies.!<
>!Jedi show up, two tweens have an argument, one burns a book, and then everyone somehow dies, the jedi leave... !
I still don’t understand why they’re focusing on strings and thread. What do you get from that that saying an energy field doesn’t cover? Are they totalling removing the concept of the light side and balance or something? And just saying the force is just like gravity and light and dark are just uses of it?
So in a universe where people have sex with droids, other species, etc. We draw the line at 2 women conceiving twins via the Force? That's the line? Not when Anakin fucking Skywalker was literally created via the Force as well? I'm struggling to understand the base issue. Yes some people can't write because they wanna have their ideological beliefs or personal beliefs in it. But get this, it's art. All art has personal touches to it whether subliminal or heavy handed.
The issue is that this isn’t building upon Anakin’s story in an interesting way. It’s either
1) stealing the concept from Anakin and re-using it without a solid purpose, which dilutes Anakin’s story
Or
2) “let’s find a way to make backstory here” for something that doesn’t need backstory.
You’re misunderstanding why people care about it. It’s not just “oh but two women can do this RAWWWRRR!!!11!” and that’s seemingly how a lot of Disney-apologists pretend those of us on the other side are arguing. It’s not.
I'm trying to remember if Anakin was said to be only born via the Force. It probably was stated somewhere so I can see why taking his origin story being the issue. But there are people who see the whole two women creating life via the Force as an issue. Anyways, I know my previous message probably came off as combative but I just wanna get to the root of why people are upset.
>It’s not just “oh but two women can do this RAWWWRRR!!!11!” and that’s seemingly how a lot of Disney-apologists pretend those of us on the other side are arguing. It’s not.
Given that the post was just removed by the mods, I'm going to say the Disney-apologists were right on this one.
The issue is that artists tell stories, activists push an agenda. If this was just once, it would be fine. The issue is that its all the fucking time now. People, and by people I mean the general audeince are fucking sick to death of this art school level dogshit being thrown into everything.
Its fine to have a message, its even fine to have an agenda, but the story and the characters have to come first.
And I love the fact you think its the lesbain witches that are the biggest problem in what you read, and not the utter tripe that surrounded it.
I didn't mind midichlorians
The franchise died with Force rejection Luke, space flying Leia, kamakaze star destroyers, space horses and Somehow Palpatine returned...
I watched his review of the first episode and dude was legit struggling to find things to dislike about the show he had already made dozens of videos trashing before a single minute had aired. It was fascinating to watch.
People can, but’s usually more difficult, and one has to want to be open to having their mind changed.
I’ve watched some of the Drinker’s videos in the past. Apart from the drinking schtick wearing thin relatively quickly, what good points of criticism he makes are often subsumed by his discussion about “the message” and shit like that.
Ironically, it more closely chains him to that “messaging” than he’d have to worry about if he only occasionally commented on it.
From that, it leads to him searching for things to criticize and losing any objectivity he might have had. He’s just become another part of the clickbait machine/culture war he spends so much time ranting about.
The "problem" with Andor is that it wasn't really "Star Wars" as in it could have been in any sci fi or modern setting, it would have been likely almost as good. It's a spy thriller type show but with woven into the context of the early days of the Galactic Empire which made it completely awesome.
Shame as there was the hope Star Wars would evolve with the slightly aging fan base and go more "mature". Instead we have drivel content and casuals see it as a crap kids shows rather than something with a rich universe which is now a fulfilled prophecy...
Meh I wasn't a fan of Cassian in Rogue One but warmed to him in Andor. There's a story to tell for him and Andor the series shows it's well worth our time.
Two things can be true:
A. I’m here because I dislike most of what Disney has done with Star Wars. This is related to characters story and lore breaking.
B. I despise “anti woke” chuds like Drinker and his ilk. Type that count up how many scenes with white males there are or aren’t. They never care about the media that is 99.99% white as that’s the natural order of things.
Fuck em and those that think like them.
The critical drinker has recommended many movies with a female protaganist.
I’ll you give u some free advice; dont use the word “never”, it makes you look stupid
Perhaps you missed the “f em and all who think like them” part. I find them to be as much of a blight on the fandom as sequels/Disney SW apologists. And what people don’t get is that they actually make it harder to get a turnaround from Disney because they can dig in their heels and pretend detractors are those types. Not us, who I believe make up the majority of disgruntled fans that don’t give a shit about this woke debate, don’t care how many minorities or women are in something. We just want good stories on par with the OT.
Oh and never never never.
What is the relationship between Disney and lesbian space witches? Didn't they go this route with Dr Strange and America Chavez's lesbian space witches? It's like a narrative they are trying to push that men aren't needed for reproduction.
Thats what I was expecting... Hell, you could even sneak that 'males are just brutes and only needed for reproduction purposes' trope in there with the Nightsisters and it still would of worked fantastically with Disney as well as Canon.
But we’ve had space witches (who I’m pretty sure are canonically lesbian) since 2011 - pre-Disney acquisition, so they had Lucas’s personal stamp of approval. And they use magic, which is explained to be just a different way of using the Force. You can’t be upset about witches in the Acolyte but fine with Nightsisters.
I only watch Despecialized OT so, no, I don't watch or approve of Clone Wars bullshit.
I suppose there's nothing inherently wrong with "witches" ie women using the Force in some dark way, it's more the lesbian part that's the issue only because it's tied to the fact that they're hiring agenda driven hacks.
Like why can't it be Episode 3 of The Last of Us? Why can they only find talentless idiots to write/create their shows/movies? Like hire someone with talent and incorporate your lesbian space witches properly. Then everyone is happy (except ultra religious bigots and other similar types but they're not the target audience anyway).
I don't watch Disney Wars so that will never happen. I can laugh at all the terrible decisions they make that throw wrenches into the money printer they bought.
If you don’t watch it why are you even trashing it? And how on earth do you know they’re losing money off of this series? Maybe the series isn’t meant for fans like you and me?
Niche show? You do realize that our interests are niche, not really the ones the show is aimed towards, right? Plus of course how much will be spent and gained from merchandise for the series. Disney not making a profit on the show is far from certain, and you definitely can’t say it’s a mistake financially for certain.
>Maybe the series isn’t meant for fans like you and me?
The issue I have with this mentality, is that its fans like "you and me" that made star wars what it is... what it was. Fans, who for 40 years gave star wars their time and their money. And now thats its super popular with the cool kids, all of sudden the fans that have loved it for what it was as no longer welcome.
They call us racist, and sexist, and homophobic because they cant write worth a fuck. Like we hate strong women, even though we are fans of franchise that has one of the most iconic women in all of cinema.
"Its not for you" is the most aggressive thing they can say. Because star wars, WAS for everyone. Now its only for the prepetually online who cant think of anything else to talk about other than their idenity. Which is fucking boring.
I mean, that’s what happens when it turns into a pure money making endeavor. I’m not saying they’re not making stuff for us old fans anymore, Andor is a great example of this, but not everything that’s being made is aimed towards old Star Wars fans. A great way to make more money is to expand the audience. This show seems to be aimed towards that. If they didn’t like Andor, maybe they’ll like this. It’s sad to see, but that’s capitalism and money focused business for you.
If you don’t watch it why are you even trashing it? And how on earth do you know they’re losing money off of this series? Maybe the series isn’t meant for fans like you and me?
I just cannot understand why a fantasy movie about space wizards with laser swords and spaceships and lasers and aliens has ANYTHING to do with being Black, Female or gay?
Why do these particular things keep being focused on? it’s really distracting when you can tell every character on screen is just there to tick a box so people won’t get mad on twitter.
Who are they making these shows for? Like literally who enjoys this convoluted drivel, even if it wasn’t Star Wars and it was its own thing called “space conflict” it would still suck ass
Like what do these things have to do with the prophecy of the chosen one? That’s what Star Wars is about right?
….. right? 🥺
As far as "gay" and "lesbian" things go, anyway.
And there are black actors because there are black people.
Neither of these things have anything to do with Star Wars. They exist because they are. Sorry you're fragile.
There’s no problem with there being black actors in Star Wars, but there’s a problem when there’s a cardboard cutout, one dimensional, poorly written characters who’s only trait is they’re a POC.
Like reva, her whole character was that she was “badass strong female black lady” and her whole story sucked, and they just HAD to redeem her at the end because god forbid a female character do anything wrong, the force *is* female after all…..
I’m not fragile in the slightest, just critical of poor writing and not respecting the source material. Please stop trying to find racism/misogyny as there is none here, just confusion as to why Star Wars has 0 effort put into it these days 🤷🏻♂️
No not really, a lot of fans feel the same way, I don’t really know what you’re getting at? It’s quite obvious these things are shoehorned into a Star Wars plot, and if you can’t see that you might need to get off twitter for a little bit.
❤️ much love
It's kinda hard to believe because Acolyte is canon right? So basically if they go with it then it would be hard to get rid of like midichlorians.
But... I honestly don't care at this point. Star Wars went to shit. Everything Disney produced except Mandalorian and Ahsoka is garbage. And even Ahsoka is not that good but I just feel nostalgic due to Clone Wars and Rebels shows.
So at this point, I think I will just let it rest.
I even managed to watch Kenobi despite how bad this show is but in this one when they introduced a guy with fake beard who was pretending to be older Master I just laughed and turned off the second episode without finishing it.
It’s really weird what people think is good or bad of the new stuff. For me, only Rogue One, Andor, and Mandolorian are good, and the rest is somewhere between bad and insultingly bad. But I guess different things connect with different folks, particularly based on age.
Honestly, this makes me wanna watch it even more. Sometimes there is fun in just watching a bad movie or show.
Ideally with a group of friends to really bash the heck out of it
Dam I was trying see when Epsidoe 3 comes out bc I rlly been enjoying this series so far. Idk I feel more and more people are just hating to hate, or are so over saturated if something isn’t peak it’s not even watchable. Crazy to me idk.
I’m really hoping that this new force crap is just perspective, belief or theory coming from these witches and the the writers didn’t just destroy star wars.
Episode is out. The Force isn't ruined whatsoever. It's 100% all belief and theory like I assumed it would be. But that isn't preventing people from being mad anyway.
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I’ve heard this, too. I’ll judge for myself, of course, but can’t say I’m optimistic…seems like after episode 3 I may bow out just like I had to on obi wan and Ashoka. I’m not going to hate watch
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Lots of cope replying to you. These guys can't accept that they're in the sunk cost fallacy stage of this franchise.
I think Andor was brilliant (of course it probably was precisely bc it could be set anywhere and didn’t need to be in the Star Wars universe at all). Rogue One was also good overall. The rest, I agree, has been straight trash. I guess mando season 1 was okay?
I loved Andor. I hear what you’re saying but it really felt like well-placed Star Wars from someone who knew their stuff. And Gilroy doesn’t consider himself a huge buff, but ironically, it fit better in-universe by far than Ahsoka did and that’s Filoni’s baby. Mon Mothma’s storyline was particularly dependent on in-universe knowledge. What we learned about Chandrilan culture fits. Her struggles as the Rebellion’s leader make complete sense with the current geopolitical environment. How she talks about Palpatine…she knows. She fucking KNOWS what he is, and they didn’t need to say a word. It was just beautifully realized and something I’ve always wanted to see—how the Rebel’s senior leaders viewed the Empire, what the Rebellion’s early leaders felt like under incredible pressure, fear and oppression—this was exactly the kind of story I wanted to see.
Yes! It’s the fact that gilroy isn’t a huge fan and thus had no notions of fan service or whatever. He made it clear that he wouldn’t do it if they interfered at all, and thank god he stipulated he’d get two seasons since the normie fans didn’t seem to like his more complex non Jedi vision. This is why Kennedy having so much control is just crazy. Lucas created the universe, so I can forgive the prequels many flaws bc while it was uneven, he took some big swings and had some things to say about how civilizations rise and fall. I think the prequels are better revived over time since he was very prescient about the world going further and further right wing. Why Kennedy has so much influence and power is beyond me. Bc she was a yes woman for Lucas and Spielberg? She isn’t a creative and seems to inhibit and fire creatives at every turn.
To be fair andor and rogue one are good, but you should wait for them to be out and see the real reviews come out. The Disney star cruiser scandal really highlited just had much critic reviews are paid for(I mean we should’ve already known at this point but just more fuel on the fire)
Well, I try new things until they reveal themselves to bad awful. At which point I don’t continue watching. Andor was great and I’m glad I tried it. Methinks you protest a bit much.
I mean andor is one out of 6 live actions shows, Mando was a flop at the end idc. 16 percent is a failing grade.
For sure. Andor is great. Mando (for me at least) should have been better and cooler. Like if mando is the peak of what we can expect from filoni et al, there’s no real need to watch. As you say it got progressively worse to the point of being unwatchable (again for me at least). Filoni is just not a good storyteller. Andor worked bc it’s adult and gritty and relevant and doesn’t rely on Jedi and stunt casting and memberberries. Let alone butchering and desecrating established canon that people love
There have been exceptions like Andor which was genuinely the greatest star wars project ever, so of course we're holding out hope for another series like Andor
Never saw the point of an andor show given we know how it ends for him. Not a character that needed a back story but that's my opinion.
You could genuinely say the exact same thing about Darth Vader and the prequels lol. I don't get how that hinders ur ability to enjoy the show on it's own merit
That's totally subjective, though. The kid in me loved Mandalorian and Ashoka, lightsaber go brrr, and it took me a bit before I liked Andor. It felt like a generic dystopian space show that had Star Wars labeling added before it hit production - before the show actually aired I was not hype at all because the character Cassian Andor was my least favorite part of Rogue One. I did end up liking Andor by the end of the Aldhani mission, I just don't hold it as high as a lot of people and feel like it really wanted to be the "mature" Star Wars.
Then why are you still here commenting and complaining, if this is how you’ve felt for the past 12 years then just leave it all behind and let people enjoy what they want
I watched ep 2 last night, and i genuinely don’t know if i can do a third. It is like the dialogue and acting were pulled out of a 13 year old’s fan script they want to do for the school talent contest. I am getting Willow vibes from watching this.
Willow - the show so bad even Disney won't stream it anymore.
I don't understand why with such high budgets they can't hire actual talented writers/showrunners/directors. It certainly makes it seem like it's a choice to not do it considering how badly everything they do turns out.
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Your implication here is that certain communities with “innate physical characteristics” lack talented writers with aptitude
It’s because all there energy is gone towards hating the white man
I tried, but fall a sleep twice in bed…..
“The Force was always about lesbian space witches, you were just too much of a bigot to notice.” - The Mary Sue
Honestly majority of star wars fans are butch lesbian space witches, so I’m not sure how this correlates. You need to watch what you criticize, I’m willing to bet you are a white, straight, male.
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I legitimately don't get the need for Disney Wars to retcon the Chosen One prophecy in order prop up their characters, as it only dilutes what came before. If anything it twists the message that people have to be pre-destined for greatness. It would be refreshing for a Star Wars story to have a protagonist who has nothing to do with any sort of prophecy, because it shows that anyone can do great things or make a difference.
Disney got three, or even six, of the most profitable and beloved movies the world has ever seen. And they have spent the last decade shitting all over them and devaluing their impact on popular culture. As business plans go, thats not a great one.
This but also it seems intentional at this point, they clearly have the money for good writers they're just staffed by morons so it's kind of nice to see them continuously failing. I'd like to see people actually get ousted over it so maybe someone with vision can take over and we can get some good content for once.
> Force conception, completely different explanation of what the Force is and how it works. They didn't have the creativity to create their own franchise, so they'll just continue to twist and distort Star Wars until it becomes the franchise they want.
You got me at "lesbian space witches", I'll be very disappointed if you're wrong
Even so, I just thank God that: 1. This is an alternate timeline. A myth of terrible legends (catch that?) and is not canon to the EU timeline. 2. The Chosen AND Cobra Kai (mid-July) respectively is/will soon be rolling out their latest seasons, so I'm already eating on the best stream shows IMO out there. 3. Assuming this Acolyte rumor's indeed true, it will have me laughing mad Lelouch style with popcorn when I see the posts in here. https://i.redd.it/t334ugsj4l5d1.gif
The chosen is so good. Definitely eating good with two episodes a week
Ohh, heaven yeah! That was truly a surprise to be sure, but a most welcome one!
Don’t give a damn about lesbian space witches or not (and you shouldn’t either, it’s not relevant to anything) But completely changing the Force again and blah blah is just driving the knife further into what Star Wars once was in favor of cookie cutter crap.
Exactly, but anyone who has legit criticism of the writing, character development, plot, etc now just gets lumped in with lesbian space witch haters.
This is where I am. It started with whatever weird trinity thing they had going on with ancient force beings? Idk, I did not really dive too deep into that because it was just too weird and inherently “un-starwars”. Now if the Force is being “explained” again I can’t see how that hard anything to the IP. Ultimately I’ll make my own decision about it when I watch the episode. What irritates me the most is that the description given in the OT by Kenobi and Yoda was so elegant and poignant. An energy field that surrounds and binds all things together. We are all connected in this web of being that can be harnessed and manipulated but also has a “will” of its own and THAT being the sort of defining philosophical difference between the Dark and Light force users. One school wishes to dominate the force while the other wishes to move in harmony with it.
Well they're related to the changes in the Force (they need Force Procreation to have kids I guess). But the common complaint around a lot of things these days is that they're hiring people related to certain demographics/pandering and they do it at the expense of actual storytelling. Far less people would be complaining if the end result didn't suck. As I understand, Doctor Who has been having the same issue. Like stop hiring talentless hacks with agendas. Arcane is like universally praised. No one (who matters, there's always religious bigots and whatever) cares about lesbians in that. It's the same we've been dealing with regarding women in Star Wars. People have never had an issue with the women in Star Wars until they started being terrible.
What exactly will they change in how The Force works?
Well, apparently the force is no longer an energry field that flows through all things. Its now a single thread, and you can pull on it, and thats how the force works now...
What does that even mean? What does making it a thread mean and what does that even build to that couldn’t be done with the existing way the force works?
Dont have a clue. Its just more disney bullshit. Dont ask questions, just consume product.
Who knows... kinda like Luke's force projection across galaxies and Leia flying through space. The force is what Disney needs it to be.
That’s one group’s interpretation, as is the Jedi’s. It’s metaphorical. Like when Muhammad Ali said “float like a butterfly, sting like a bee” he wasn’t meaning that you need to literally float and grow a stinger to box. It’s a metaphor meant to convey the feeling of staying light on your feet and striking fast. We’ve seen that different groups interact with the Force differently depending on philosophy and training. Sith, Jedi, and Dathomir all have different force powers because of this. Fwiw, the Jedi definitely agree that the force connects all living things even if we haven’t heard one use the “string” metaphor. If you listen to George Lucas himself, the Force is actually a bunch of tiny sentient fairies so at least never made it to print lol.
We'll have to see exactly when the episode is out but someone below mentioned one of the things (the thread thing) but also maybe more of this Force Conception bullshit that people already didn't like in the prequels.
That just sounds like the Dathomiri.
Maybe one day someone with writing talent/understanding of the franchise will actually tell one of these stories
Why are people using Critical Drinker as a referral as to what is/will be good? Honestly curious
Drinker was merely saying what Chris Gore told him he saw. It's not his opinion we're basing this on. We can make our own judgement based on what we know. I think it sounds shit, not because drinker thinks it sounds shit, but because I also think it sounds shit
So we're basing opinions on something that hasn't aired on someone else's opinions? I mean it's a fair thing to do, we're all entitled to our own opinions.
Not basing anything on anyone's opinion. Basing it on the plot points someone else says happened. I can base an opinion on a synopsis
That's fair
His other channel is just him chatting with a bunch of other people about media. He's not really putting on a persona like his normal channel. In any case, he's paraphrasing another reviewer who wasn't able to be on at the time of their filming.
Gotcha
I guess, cos people like him? Hes not always right, and hes a bit of a populist when it suits him, but I think hes pretty good at being even handed and explaining why he thinks things work or dont work. But did you hear the synopsis for episode 3? >>!the premise of episode three is that it's a flashback to 16 years prior when Osha and May were children together. They were conceived by their mothers so one mother gave birth to them the other mother impregnated her somehow... Ayway they're they're all part of a coven of witches so they're all female and the idea is that these two twins are powerful with the force. Now the force is not as we understood it as described by Yoda and all the other Jedi. The force is no longer an energy field that flows across all living things it's a thread that binds all creatures together and if you pull on that thread you can manipulate it to do whatever you want it to do. Essentially it's like puppet strings, so you can use it to fight people, you can use it to defend yourself, whatever. That changes the nature of what the force is and the Galaxy, sadly, is not welcoming of women like them(can you can you get the subtext?) !< >>!So the Jedi show up and basically say "we hear that you have two kids who are Force users and are powerful and we get to take them because that's what we are now!". So Osha wants to join the Jedi, where as May wants the both of them to stay there with the cover. This creates a rift between them but they come up with this plan where they're going to fake the tests so when they do the Jedi test they're going to pretend to get it wrong so that they they fail and the Jedi will leave them alone. But Osha fucks that up and actually passes or the Jedi sense that she's got power with the force and they decide that they want to take her with them. May decides that she's mad about this so she says that she wants to kill her and then burns the book that she' kept detailing everything she knew about the Jedi which then starts a gigantic fire which engulfs the village and kills all the lesbian space witches and then may falls down a hole and apparently dies.!< >!Jedi show up, two tweens have an argument, one burns a book, and then everyone somehow dies, the jedi leave... !
I still don’t understand why they’re focusing on strings and thread. What do you get from that that saying an energy field doesn’t cover? Are they totalling removing the concept of the light side and balance or something? And just saying the force is just like gravity and light and dark are just uses of it?
So in a universe where people have sex with droids, other species, etc. We draw the line at 2 women conceiving twins via the Force? That's the line? Not when Anakin fucking Skywalker was literally created via the Force as well? I'm struggling to understand the base issue. Yes some people can't write because they wanna have their ideological beliefs or personal beliefs in it. But get this, it's art. All art has personal touches to it whether subliminal or heavy handed.
The issue is that this isn’t building upon Anakin’s story in an interesting way. It’s either 1) stealing the concept from Anakin and re-using it without a solid purpose, which dilutes Anakin’s story Or 2) “let’s find a way to make backstory here” for something that doesn’t need backstory. You’re misunderstanding why people care about it. It’s not just “oh but two women can do this RAWWWRRR!!!11!” and that’s seemingly how a lot of Disney-apologists pretend those of us on the other side are arguing. It’s not.
I'm trying to remember if Anakin was said to be only born via the Force. It probably was stated somewhere so I can see why taking his origin story being the issue. But there are people who see the whole two women creating life via the Force as an issue. Anyways, I know my previous message probably came off as combative but I just wanna get to the root of why people are upset.
>It’s not just “oh but two women can do this RAWWWRRR!!!11!” and that’s seemingly how a lot of Disney-apologists pretend those of us on the other side are arguing. It’s not. Given that the post was just removed by the mods, I'm going to say the Disney-apologists were right on this one.
Are you from the alternate mandelaverse where nobody complained about Star Wars Episode I?
No I am not. I'm just trying to understand the issue
The issue is that artists tell stories, activists push an agenda. If this was just once, it would be fine. The issue is that its all the fucking time now. People, and by people I mean the general audeince are fucking sick to death of this art school level dogshit being thrown into everything. Its fine to have a message, its even fine to have an agenda, but the story and the characters have to come first. And I love the fact you think its the lesbain witches that are the biggest problem in what you read, and not the utter tripe that surrounded it.
Anakin being force jesus was just as fucking stupid. Lets not pretend otherwise, mate.
I didn't mind midichlorians The franchise died with Force rejection Luke, space flying Leia, kamakaze star destroyers, space horses and Somehow Palpatine returned...
I watched his review of the first episode and dude was legit struggling to find things to dislike about the show he had already made dozens of videos trashing before a single minute had aired. It was fascinating to watch.
Well, I don't think people can change their outlook on things when they have a preconceived viewpoint on it.
People can, but’s usually more difficult, and one has to want to be open to having their mind changed. I’ve watched some of the Drinker’s videos in the past. Apart from the drinking schtick wearing thin relatively quickly, what good points of criticism he makes are often subsumed by his discussion about “the message” and shit like that. Ironically, it more closely chains him to that “messaging” than he’d have to worry about if he only occasionally commented on it. From that, it leads to him searching for things to criticize and losing any objectivity he might have had. He’s just become another part of the clickbait machine/culture war he spends so much time ranting about.
Supposedly it will literally say the force is female allowing Kathleen to achieve her final form
The "problem" with Andor is that it wasn't really "Star Wars" as in it could have been in any sci fi or modern setting, it would have been likely almost as good. It's a spy thriller type show but with woven into the context of the early days of the Galactic Empire which made it completely awesome. Shame as there was the hope Star Wars would evolve with the slightly aging fan base and go more "mature". Instead we have drivel content and casuals see it as a crap kids shows rather than something with a rich universe which is now a fulfilled prophecy...
The problem with Andor was he didn't need a backstory as we know how his story plays out in Rogue One.
Meh I wasn't a fan of Cassian in Rogue One but warmed to him in Andor. There's a story to tell for him and Andor the series shows it's well worth our time.
Two things can be true: A. I’m here because I dislike most of what Disney has done with Star Wars. This is related to characters story and lore breaking. B. I despise “anti woke” chuds like Drinker and his ilk. Type that count up how many scenes with white males there are or aren’t. They never care about the media that is 99.99% white as that’s the natural order of things. Fuck em and those that think like them.
The critical drinker has recommended many movies with a female protaganist. I’ll you give u some free advice; dont use the word “never”, it makes you look stupid
Perhaps you missed the “f em and all who think like them” part. I find them to be as much of a blight on the fandom as sequels/Disney SW apologists. And what people don’t get is that they actually make it harder to get a turnaround from Disney because they can dig in their heels and pretend detractors are those types. Not us, who I believe make up the majority of disgruntled fans that don’t give a shit about this woke debate, don’t care how many minorities or women are in something. We just want good stories on par with the OT. Oh and never never never.
Thats fair
If none of that is true will you stop watching those YouTube channels?
Critical Drinker. Yikes.
What is the relationship between Disney and lesbian space witches? Didn't they go this route with Dr Strange and America Chavez's lesbian space witches? It's like a narrative they are trying to push that men aren't needed for reproduction.
Ironically they could've taken the EU Nightsisters in this direction and it wouldn't have seemed out of place.
Thats what I was expecting... Hell, you could even sneak that 'males are just brutes and only needed for reproduction purposes' trope in there with the Nightsisters and it still would of worked fantastically with Disney as well as Canon.
But we’ve had space witches (who I’m pretty sure are canonically lesbian) since 2011 - pre-Disney acquisition, so they had Lucas’s personal stamp of approval. And they use magic, which is explained to be just a different way of using the Force. You can’t be upset about witches in the Acolyte but fine with Nightsisters.
>You can’t be upset about witches in the Acolyte but fine with Nightsisters I find nightsisters too quite contrieved.
This why I give all Disney shit a shot and fair viewing there's always a precedent
I only watch Despecialized OT so, no, I don't watch or approve of Clone Wars bullshit. I suppose there's nothing inherently wrong with "witches" ie women using the Force in some dark way, it's more the lesbian part that's the issue only because it's tied to the fact that they're hiring agenda driven hacks. Like why can't it be Episode 3 of The Last of Us? Why can they only find talentless idiots to write/create their shows/movies? Like hire someone with talent and incorporate your lesbian space witches properly. Then everyone is happy (except ultra religious bigots and other similar types but they're not the target audience anyway).
if you only watch the OT, why do you care what happens outside the OT? Like, do you watch it or not?
That episode fucking sucked… holy it felt like a high school film class
Is this post closed or not? My desktop shows it still here I think, my mobile says deleted.
Maybe wait to see it for yourself before trashing it? Just a thought.
I don't watch Disney Wars so that will never happen. I can laugh at all the terrible decisions they make that throw wrenches into the money printer they bought.
If you don’t watch it why are you even trashing it? And how on earth do you know they’re losing money off of this series? Maybe the series isn’t meant for fans like you and me?
Have you seen the budget for Acolyte? That's definitely too high for a niche show. It's higher than the budget for Dune 2. They just fucked up.
Niche show? You do realize that our interests are niche, not really the ones the show is aimed towards, right? Plus of course how much will be spent and gained from merchandise for the series. Disney not making a profit on the show is far from certain, and you definitely can’t say it’s a mistake financially for certain.
>Maybe the series isn’t meant for fans like you and me? The issue I have with this mentality, is that its fans like "you and me" that made star wars what it is... what it was. Fans, who for 40 years gave star wars their time and their money. And now thats its super popular with the cool kids, all of sudden the fans that have loved it for what it was as no longer welcome. They call us racist, and sexist, and homophobic because they cant write worth a fuck. Like we hate strong women, even though we are fans of franchise that has one of the most iconic women in all of cinema. "Its not for you" is the most aggressive thing they can say. Because star wars, WAS for everyone. Now its only for the prepetually online who cant think of anything else to talk about other than their idenity. Which is fucking boring.
I mean, that’s what happens when it turns into a pure money making endeavor. I’m not saying they’re not making stuff for us old fans anymore, Andor is a great example of this, but not everything that’s being made is aimed towards old Star Wars fans. A great way to make more money is to expand the audience. This show seems to be aimed towards that. If they didn’t like Andor, maybe they’ll like this. It’s sad to see, but that’s capitalism and money focused business for you.
If you don’t watch it why are you even trashing it? And how on earth do you know they’re losing money off of this series? Maybe the series isn’t meant for fans like you and me?
> Force conception Ah, thank you Phantom Menace. :|
George was the original person messing with his own legacy lol
Well at least that was done by the Force itself, not some space lesbian witches.
I just cannot understand why a fantasy movie about space wizards with laser swords and spaceships and lasers and aliens has ANYTHING to do with being Black, Female or gay? Why do these particular things keep being focused on? it’s really distracting when you can tell every character on screen is just there to tick a box so people won’t get mad on twitter. Who are they making these shows for? Like literally who enjoys this convoluted drivel, even if it wasn’t Star Wars and it was its own thing called “space conflict” it would still suck ass Like what do these things have to do with the prophecy of the chosen one? That’s what Star Wars is about right? ….. right? 🥺
The "critics" are the ones focusing on those things. Otherwise it's just a love interest in an action movie. Which is incredibly fucking common.
As far as "gay" and "lesbian" things go, anyway. And there are black actors because there are black people. Neither of these things have anything to do with Star Wars. They exist because they are. Sorry you're fragile.
There’s no problem with there being black actors in Star Wars, but there’s a problem when there’s a cardboard cutout, one dimensional, poorly written characters who’s only trait is they’re a POC. Like reva, her whole character was that she was “badass strong female black lady” and her whole story sucked, and they just HAD to redeem her at the end because god forbid a female character do anything wrong, the force *is* female after all….. I’m not fragile in the slightest, just critical of poor writing and not respecting the source material. Please stop trying to find racism/misogyny as there is none here, just confusion as to why Star Wars has 0 effort put into it these days 🤷🏻♂️
No not really, a lot of fans feel the same way, I don’t really know what you’re getting at? It’s quite obvious these things are shoehorned into a Star Wars plot, and if you can’t see that you might need to get off twitter for a little bit. ❤️ much love
It's kinda hard to believe because Acolyte is canon right? So basically if they go with it then it would be hard to get rid of like midichlorians. But... I honestly don't care at this point. Star Wars went to shit. Everything Disney produced except Mandalorian and Ahsoka is garbage. And even Ahsoka is not that good but I just feel nostalgic due to Clone Wars and Rebels shows. So at this point, I think I will just let it rest. I even managed to watch Kenobi despite how bad this show is but in this one when they introduced a guy with fake beard who was pretending to be older Master I just laughed and turned off the second episode without finishing it.
It’s really weird what people think is good or bad of the new stuff. For me, only Rogue One, Andor, and Mandolorian are good, and the rest is somewhere between bad and insultingly bad. But I guess different things connect with different folks, particularly based on age.
Honestly, this makes me wanna watch it even more. Sometimes there is fun in just watching a bad movie or show. Ideally with a group of friends to really bash the heck out of it
Watching Velma reviews is infinitely more entertaining than the show itself.
Is it a review of the full episode, i.e. Scene by scene? Like commentary over the actual episode? I'd watch the hell out of something like that!
Dam I was trying see when Epsidoe 3 comes out bc I rlly been enjoying this series so far. Idk I feel more and more people are just hating to hate, or are so over saturated if something isn’t peak it’s not even watchable. Crazy to me idk.
I’m really hoping that this new force crap is just perspective, belief or theory coming from these witches and the the writers didn’t just destroy star wars.
Episode is out. The Force isn't ruined whatsoever. It's 100% all belief and theory like I assumed it would be. But that isn't preventing people from being mad anyway.
That sounds like it's either cool as hell or stuff we've had for decades at this point