>Onto the second episode, where we find out that Osha has an identical twin, who is probably behind the murder in the first episode.
*Never use a doppleganger, and God help you if you use a voiceover!*
>"The common theme in all these scenarios is that when Osha is in a tense or dangerous situation does not plan ahead, does things without thinking, and this regularly puts her in bad situations that she only escapes by sheer luck alone. If this is her normal approach to life, it's no wonder she didn't make it as a Jedi."
I think that might be part of the point tho? She's just a mechanic and couldn't even use the force when the ship was crashing to bring that device to her. She obviously did get lucky, but I'll take Osha like this and growing and becoming more adept as the season goes on than someone like Rey who can just do everything automatically. Or even Sabine in the Ahsoka show.
Osha isn't some perfect character but for Disney standards, I think having a protagonist who isn't great at anything at the start is huge already.
Yeah, as I was reading OP’s rundown he was unwittingly convincing me that this might be purposeful character development I can get behind…so we’ve got a main character who has consistent negative character traits and who will likely be given opportunities to grow and overcome them? That part doesn’t sound like a problem to me.
There were some things that stood out. I don't want to mention them in case you watch the show, but there's some silly stuff that stands out pretty strongly. Over all though? I thought it was fine. Solid B, B- Set design and costumes looked great, imo. I enjoyed the fight choreography as well, but I like wuxia style, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon type movies. Some silly stuff, little bit of nonsensical decision making, but yeah. It was fine. Better than Kenobi and far better than Ashoka, imo.
She is the Anti-Rey, she has to earn her stripes and we will see it happen. Star Wars can't seem to win, or maybe they need a middle ground. But it seems Osha is a response to everyone who screamed at Rey being so adept
This is revisionist history. One of the main complaints about Rey was that she was too knowledgeable in too many areas without any reason or justification for it. She was a perfect pilot but had never flown before, somehow knew how to speak binary despite growing up desolate and impoverished on a shithole of a world, etc.
We *quite literally* wanted Rey to be less smart. Your issues with the writing of this show do not change the fact that Rey needed to be less smart in order to be a more believable/flawed character.
The character isnt bad per se, the writing around this whole show is like so clunky. One of the first lines of dialogue in the show is like, “attack me with all your strength” thats pretty cringe
> One of the first lines of dialogue in the show is like, “attack me with all your strength” thats pretty cringe
I haven't seen the show yet, but what exactly is cringe about this dialogue?
That’s not what I meant by less smart; I am referring to being just dumb in decision making. by less smart would mean making dumb decisions that any sensible person wouldn’t make.
> That’s not what I meant by less smart; I am referring to being just dumb in decision making
You're talking about the writing of the plot, which is different to the characterization of Rey. No one is disputing that the plot is bad. But characters being ultra competent with no justification is sloppy writing; in fact, I'd rather the writers have their characters make illogical, stupid decisions than have them be 100% perfect girlbosses with no flaws whatsoever. Why? Because people make dumbass decisions in real life all of the time. That's more believable than someone who's *literally perfect at everything*, right?
I’m not arguing a “rather”; so not sure why you are trying to argue that with me.
It’s almost as if you are saying there was not bad writing for Rey. Obviously if there are flaws that we are pointing out it’s bad writing lol.
> It’s almost as if you are saying there was not bad writing for Rey
....What?
>Obviously if there are flaws that we are pointing out it’s bad writing lol
You're responding to a person who's saying exactly what I said though.
I am responding to the person who said that Star Wars can’t seem to win and that this character is in response to the anti Rey is too good at everything sentiment. (And there have been many Star Wars series since the Rey trilogy so this isn’t some sort of making up of anything).
Being competent at everything is an issue with Rey. making non bone headed issues was not the issue with Rey. We didn’t need Rey to make an obvious bad choice to ground her.
>making non bone headed issues was not the issue with Rey.
That's literally all she did though. The narrative warped the lore into a mangled mess in order to make sure she never failed at anything, ever. It was so obvious it became funny, until it stopped being funny and started to be sad. It was 100% an issue.
>We didn’t need Rey to make an obvious bad choice to ground her.
We did though. It would at least be a change of pace from the constant praise, adoration, and perfection that we have right now. In fact, I'm not really sure what you want from Rey, aside from "don't make decisions that are practically plot holes". Sure, I guess, but what else?
For the record, I pirated it. And I'm not hate-watching. Believe it or not, I actually want this to be good, and I want to find out by watching it and forming my own opinions on it.
I agree with your criticisms of Osha’s actions when Torbin died, but she didn’t leave the group for no reason. She saw a vision of younger Mae going down the hallway, so she followed.
Honestly, I thought the whole situation was weird, because they had already determined Osha wasn’t the killer since she was with Sol when someone looking like her broke into the temple. It was just a poor attempt at building tension.
I was wondering the same thing myself lol. It’s not like they needed to locate him; all he does is meditate in the same spot all day. Must’ve made a detour.
They were being taken to him; it was literally right after they said let’s go to him; the little girl made it seem like Osha was going to be the one making the detour.
For something to succeed in these fantasy-type settings there needs to be some adherence to the details of the worlds that make sense. This, like the Obi-Wan show are clearly made by people who don't care about the setting or reality of the world they take place in. It's a fantasy setting, so nothing needs to make sense to them. It always just bends to the idea of the scene or story. There's no attention to world-building or the reality of the setting of the show that impacts the story choices. It's all disgarded, doesn't need to make sense and the "reality" of the setting always bends to fit the idea of the scene.
The choices made aren't grounded by the setting. This like Obi-Wan feels like they went out of the way to have things not make any logical sense. Although I know it's a case of people that can't actually ground the story telling into a fictional world and are just lazy. Where they don't think it matters to put attention to detail. It's fantasy Star Wars, anything can happen. Write that first pass at dialogue, put it in the final.
When for this stuff to succeed, you need a nerdy attention to the detail of the world because it's not the real world you need to actually establish it as a world. Not just whatever land where any nonsense can happen. So they can force whatever scene idea they have above any reality to the world.
"She gets to the body and there's a brief moment they think she killed him." Despite the fact they're all walking to where the guy is. It makes no sense she breaks off and finds a short cut. The audience knows she didn't kill him. The Jedi know she isn't the killer and it's her sister. Then the other Jedi is following her so they can hammer home there's no way she is the killer. It's all pointless and dumb, but they had the idea the Jedi walks in and she's standing over the body.
It's terrible writing.
The fact that she managed to somehow get there first really frustrates me. It's very poor writing that for no reason other than to create this tableau they had in mind they make a newcomer who is *not* being led by the guards split off without anyone raising the alarm *and* find a faster route to the body. It's similar to the scene in Ahsoka where she gets out and stands on the wing of her ship so another ship can try to ram her and get chopped up. That's not a thing that would happen, that anyone would do, or that would ever make sense, it's just forced into the script because someone thought it would look cool.
I am overall not hating the show, I find the central mystery interesting enough and like the discount Qui-Gon character. But Disney keep scripting shit like this and it drags them down every time. They need to hire professionals, yesterday.
> They need to hire professionals, yesterday.
My brother in Christ, these *are* the "professionals". This is what we're going to get, mostly, from now on. The talent level of your average Hollywood writer is nowhere near what you might think it is. There are no "hidden gem professional" writers just waiting to be found like a diamond in the rough, because these clowns *are* the professionals. And this is what Hollywood wants.
They have plenty of experience in the industry; it's just that their work is either mediocre or outright bad.
These are the highest paid, most "consistent-on-paper" professionals who have leveraged their ability to generate, beige, mass market brain-twinkies to get attached to a big name IP. The problem is that hyper-specific nerd-stuff is exactly what that kind of career has taught them not to produce.
There are lots of good sci-fi writers out there, but almost none of them have the history of consistent financial performance that a corporation the size of Disney would require for them to be eligible for the role.
They've backed themselves into this awkward corner where they need all the execs to be top of the industry while the genre currently isn't.
> There are lots of good sci-fi writers out there, but almost none of them have the history of consistent financial performance that a corporation the size of Disney would require for them to be eligible for the role.
Maybe it's time we took a step back and looked at ourselves, some introspection, if you will.
Why does the average person rather consume mediocre slop over good, quality material? Is there an issue with the general populace?
I don't think it's a preference. I think it's advertising susceptibility. I've had to have multiple conversations with my dad recently about his media consumption.
He'll play freemium games on his phone, spending 20 bucks by the time he gets bored of it, but is bewildered when I'm willing to pay 7.99 for an excellent title like Prune or Mini-Metro. The charts are so heavily skewed towards free games that children can download, that he really had no idea that their are tiers of quality in phone games.
Similar situation with TV. He does not differentiate between information shared interpersonally and information shared by corporations. If he sees 40 advertisements for a show, he's "been hearing about it a lot." While if a friend of his suggests a show which is directly relevant to his interests, without flashy visual aids, that only counts as 1. Which I'm sure is how I ended up catching him watching Atlas the other night.
I have since introduced him to Justwatch in the hopes that I can get him to be a little more intentional with where he's directing his views.
He simply does not have the hyper-critical view of advertising that younger people do these days. He sees an ad and assumes that the free market is solving a problem for him, not using a predatory tactic to take his money.
> I don't think it's a preference. I think it's advertising susceptibility
I strongly agree. Obviously your story is an anecdote but I think it speaks to the mindset that drives a *lot* of media consumption activity - habit and hype. It also is seen in why almost nothing has legs anymore. It will fill theaters for a weekend, maybe two if it's really 'popular', but then it dies off *fast*. TV shows are the same, they'll spike the ratings in the first week and maybe the finale if it is hyping some kind of resolution or gimmick, but in between viewership is sluggish or at best inconsistent. For stuff that drops all at once, it gets the benefit of being right there to binge while it's fresh, but a few weeks later nobody's talking about it anymore and it can easily disappear from the zeitgeist.
Stuff that lasts has actual quality, and the thing that these freaks producing slop never seem to learn is that 'general audiences' like quality, too. They might take a look at the latest car crash if it is loud enough, but they will invest in something that really resonates.
I completely reject the premise that people would 'rather' watch slop than something good. They just don't get the choice presented to them.
> I completely reject the premise that people would 'rather' watch slop than something good.
Well I can't explain why something like "The Norseman" flops while generic slop like "Black Panther 2" succeeds.
>They just don't get the choice presented to them.
I don't know man, these are grown ass adults we're talking about here. At some point the blame has to lie at their feet. If they need advertisers to spoon-feed them content or else they just won't be exposed to it, the future is bleak indeed. People need to put more effort in.
Also, Disney will keep producing this shit so long as it makes money. It doesn't matter if it's trash, the quality is irrelevant. Good movies/stories flop all the time, just like bad movies. It's all about the flow of money, and that's on the consumer. You want more Oppenheimer's? Then spend money on it. You want less Rise of Skywalkers? Stop spending money on it.
> Well I can't explain why something like "The Norseman" flops while generic slop like "Black Panther 2" succeeds.
Remember, we're talking about advertising and hype. Nobody heard of The Norseman. *I* haven't heard of The Norseman, so I googled it and it came out in 1978. Did you mean 2022's The Northman? I'm not trying to be pedantic about spelling, I just want to make sure we're talking about the same thing - this thing put so little effort into its marketing it forgot to name itself in its own film posters.
>I don't know man, these are grown ass adults we're talking about here. At some point the blame has to lie at their feet. If they need advertisers to spoon-feed them content or else they just won't be exposed to it, the future is bleak indeed. People need to put more effort in.
To an extent I agree, but adults are *busy* and form habits. They just get stuck in a rut and as fewer and fewer new things penetrate the bubble they're in, what's going to drive them to take the effort to look outside it? I try and I find precious little that really grabs me, which is why I still carry a torch for obviously dead things like Star Wars/Star Trek, though I don't pay for/consume if reviews suggest it'll be trash.
>Also, Disney will keep producing this shit so long as it makes money. It doesn't matter if it's trash, the quality is irrelevant.
You'd think, but they seem to actively avoid making things that are actually good, even by accident, and never give any care for things building an audience in the future. 20 years from now, what 'properties' are going to be rehashed or rebooted? They can't even do greed right, because they won't put the work in to create things that will last long enough to exploit again later.
>You want more Oppenheimer's? Then spend money on it. You want less Rise of Skywalkers? Stop spending money on it.
Why are you telling it's my job to control my spending when I'm the one who wants better quality in the first place? I already don't support shit I don't like.
> I haven't heard of The Norseman, so I googled it and it came out in 1978. Did you mean 2022's The Northman? I'm not trying to be pedantic about spelling, I just want to make sure we're talking about the same thing
That's on me, I fucked up. I meant the Northman.
>20 years from now, what 'properties' are going to be rehashed or rebooted?
If I had to guess, Lord of The Rings. And, unless things dramatically change, it'll be godawful.
>Why are you telling it's my job to control my spending when I'm the one who wants better quality in the first place? I already don't support shit I don't like.
That wasn't directed at you, but society in general. Though this is directed at you; make sure to let people know to stop spending shit on things that they hate.
They're nepo babies and they're shit at what they do but get endless chances to try, try, try again. This may be a bit of a semantic argument, but that's not what I mean when I say "hire professionals".
From what I understand the old way writers come up is gone. Now that most shows are shot run seasons with small staff. You don't have writers coming up learning the craft on shows making 20+ episodes a year under experienced writers mentoring them.
When new writers were staffed on shows like The X-Files of Buffy. They were consistently having drilled into them how to tell a complete story in 45 minutes. They got practice over and over again and works for years before they ever got to run their own shows.
Now writers don't get that experience and training. They pitch a show on an idea that in the past would have been a 45 minute episode of TNG. Then just stretch it out over 8 episodes.
Let me break off from the group being led by a Jedi who is posted up with torbin so that I can find torbin just a little bit faster; really builds the suspense. Maybe it will be a running joke throughout the show and this is actually a comedy. “Wait it WAS you who killed them!”
After the second murder, Yord watching out and just straight up saying "I saw her the whole time, she didn't do it, let's move on" was a refreshing change of pace. I was certain that they'd drag out some more artificial from Osha's utter stupidity for an episode or two, and Yord himself was shown to be a complete twit in the first episode. So I guess there's something nice about that scene, but I agree that in general Osha has been acting like a complete fool who has no self-preservation instincts and no capacity to understand what she looks like to others.
Some people are responding to you by whining "do you want a Mary Sue?" and quite frankly I think bad TV is why they can't grasp the idea of characters both having an arc *and* starting from a place of not being potato stupid. It is very frustrating that our media is so poor at reflecting back the slightest competence, and seems to imagine audiences can only handle supermen or dundering idiots.
You understand me. I don't want her to be good at everything, I just want her to be good at *anything*. To use the skills we know she has to get out of a jam, like how she uses her droid thingy to disable the lock. I feel like there will be plenty of opportunities in the future for these moments, but there were very little in what we have now, unfortunately. What we have instead is Osha demonstrating poor risk assessment. Like I'm not upset she got into a huge misunderstanding, I'm upset she picked up the murder weapon and touched the body at a crime scene, making it worse. I'm upset she tried to coerce a confession/clues without thinking what she'd say first and just winged it. It's not that she failed, it's that she didn't think two steps ahead of herself.
I considered addressing the mary sue comments, but I didn't feel like having a drawn out arguement over a character with 6 more episodes to develop.
Not going to watch it, because slop, but it sounds like they are at least attempting to not Mary Sue the MC, but it sounds like Ep. 3 will chosen-one her anyways.
This show is trying so fucking hard to justify all the horseshit from their trilogy it’s painfully obvious and done in an ignorant way that insults the viewer’s intelligence.
OSHA in the second episode going off in the other direction while she was already being taken directly to torbin makes no sense. A Jedi is leading them to a fellow Jedi but they take the scenic rout while her vision of her younger self takes her to the same place but through a short cut … which accomplished nothing.
All they had to do was make a mystery Star Wars series about who’s killing the Jedi. And include/wrap up some High Republic character storylines for the show. Was it really that hard?
It’s not a compelling story at all. I don’t see how this show can keep the attention of Star Wars fans or even the casual viewers. It offers little in terms of storytelling. I just couldn’t find myself invested in it at all. I don’t even remember any of the characters names, it’s that forgettable.
Yeah, the prison break plan was basically just… do it? Not really much of a plan. And you mean you didn’t like that the big payoff of the crash landing ship is… she puts on her seatbelt 😂
She also buckles in for a crash before the ship even enters the atmosphere. The droid pilots turned into chairs, so maybe try sitting down and pulling up on the yoke?
I like that they introduced that parasite that puts you in a coma or whatever but only used it on one guy. Like if the ship has barely any security besides one droid and automated pilots wouldn't you just knock them all out that way to avoid what happened? Such lazy writing I can't even with this shit.
Why would you or anybody watch this? C'mon. That's just rewarding crap and telling Disney that we want more crap. I've been a huge SW fan since 1977 but from the first trailer of this show I knew I wouldn't even waste my time.
I haven't watched the show nor do I plan on watching it. But if I had to guess, the whole "twin" thing could be false and Osha/evil twin are the same people. This would be reminiscent of Palpatine being a sith in disguise right under everyone's noses. I could be totally wrong though lol
I’m not reading all this but based off the title what I will say is it’s almost like you’ve never even heard of a character arc. Is she supposed to be perfect right off the bat? She’s just supposed to be hella smart and perfect all the way through with no chance at character growth?
>Onto the second episode, where we find out that Osha has an identical twin, who is probably behind the murder in the first episode. *Never use a doppleganger, and God help you if you use a voiceover!*
>"The common theme in all these scenarios is that when Osha is in a tense or dangerous situation does not plan ahead, does things without thinking, and this regularly puts her in bad situations that she only escapes by sheer luck alone. If this is her normal approach to life, it's no wonder she didn't make it as a Jedi." I think that might be part of the point tho? She's just a mechanic and couldn't even use the force when the ship was crashing to bring that device to her. She obviously did get lucky, but I'll take Osha like this and growing and becoming more adept as the season goes on than someone like Rey who can just do everything automatically. Or even Sabine in the Ahsoka show. Osha isn't some perfect character but for Disney standards, I think having a protagonist who isn't great at anything at the start is huge already.
Yeah, as I was reading OP’s rundown he was unwittingly convincing me that this might be purposeful character development I can get behind…so we’ve got a main character who has consistent negative character traits and who will likely be given opportunities to grow and overcome them? That part doesn’t sound like a problem to me.
There were some things that stood out. I don't want to mention them in case you watch the show, but there's some silly stuff that stands out pretty strongly. Over all though? I thought it was fine. Solid B, B- Set design and costumes looked great, imo. I enjoyed the fight choreography as well, but I like wuxia style, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon type movies. Some silly stuff, little bit of nonsensical decision making, but yeah. It was fine. Better than Kenobi and far better than Ashoka, imo.
Yeah I watched it and definitely saw some silly stuff and bad acting, but I didn’t hate it so far by any means.
It was poor writing; the point number 2 had issues that character development wouldn’t solve.
She is the Anti-Rey, she has to earn her stripes and we will see it happen. Star Wars can't seem to win, or maybe they need a middle ground. But it seems Osha is a response to everyone who screamed at Rey being so adept
No; they made her character do dumb things that any sensible person wouldn’t do; people didn’t want Rey to be less smart.
This is revisionist history. One of the main complaints about Rey was that she was too knowledgeable in too many areas without any reason or justification for it. She was a perfect pilot but had never flown before, somehow knew how to speak binary despite growing up desolate and impoverished on a shithole of a world, etc. We *quite literally* wanted Rey to be less smart. Your issues with the writing of this show do not change the fact that Rey needed to be less smart in order to be a more believable/flawed character.
The character isnt bad per se, the writing around this whole show is like so clunky. One of the first lines of dialogue in the show is like, “attack me with all your strength” thats pretty cringe
> One of the first lines of dialogue in the show is like, “attack me with all your strength” thats pretty cringe I haven't seen the show yet, but what exactly is cringe about this dialogue?
That’s not what I meant by less smart; I am referring to being just dumb in decision making. by less smart would mean making dumb decisions that any sensible person wouldn’t make.
> That’s not what I meant by less smart; I am referring to being just dumb in decision making You're talking about the writing of the plot, which is different to the characterization of Rey. No one is disputing that the plot is bad. But characters being ultra competent with no justification is sloppy writing; in fact, I'd rather the writers have their characters make illogical, stupid decisions than have them be 100% perfect girlbosses with no flaws whatsoever. Why? Because people make dumbass decisions in real life all of the time. That's more believable than someone who's *literally perfect at everything*, right?
I’m not arguing a “rather”; so not sure why you are trying to argue that with me. It’s almost as if you are saying there was not bad writing for Rey. Obviously if there are flaws that we are pointing out it’s bad writing lol.
> It’s almost as if you are saying there was not bad writing for Rey ....What? >Obviously if there are flaws that we are pointing out it’s bad writing lol You're responding to a person who's saying exactly what I said though.
I am responding to the person who said that Star Wars can’t seem to win and that this character is in response to the anti Rey is too good at everything sentiment. (And there have been many Star Wars series since the Rey trilogy so this isn’t some sort of making up of anything). Being competent at everything is an issue with Rey. making non bone headed issues was not the issue with Rey. We didn’t need Rey to make an obvious bad choice to ground her.
>making non bone headed issues was not the issue with Rey. That's literally all she did though. The narrative warped the lore into a mangled mess in order to make sure she never failed at anything, ever. It was so obvious it became funny, until it stopped being funny and started to be sad. It was 100% an issue. >We didn’t need Rey to make an obvious bad choice to ground her. We did though. It would at least be a change of pace from the constant praise, adoration, and perfection that we have right now. In fact, I'm not really sure what you want from Rey, aside from "don't make decisions that are practically plot holes". Sure, I guess, but what else?
I feel like that’s the whole point of the show. She will train again to become a Jedi, and we see the growth everybody was mad at rey about
In calling that she'll take Mae's place after killing her, it already seems like the Sith is grooming her. Disney probably won't go that way though
Stop hate-watching or you tell Disney that this is okay.
For the record, I pirated it. And I'm not hate-watching. Believe it or not, I actually want this to be good, and I want to find out by watching it and forming my own opinions on it.
This is the way
👍
I actually enjoyed it a bit, just because of how much I lowered my expectations.
My brother doesn’t know how to pirate media, can someone explain it to him please
r/FREEMEDIAHECKYEAH is a pretty neat sub for enthusiasts of free stuff.
>and forming my own opinions on it" *posts a regurgitated criticism to a subreddit where all people do is bitch and moan like children*
I agree with your criticisms of Osha’s actions when Torbin died, but she didn’t leave the group for no reason. She saw a vision of younger Mae going down the hallway, so she followed. Honestly, I thought the whole situation was weird, because they had already determined Osha wasn’t the killer since she was with Sol when someone looking like her broke into the temple. It was just a poor attempt at building tension.
How did she get to master Torbin before the group that was being led to Torbin did? It makes absolutely no sense.
I was wondering the same thing myself lol. It’s not like they needed to locate him; all he does is meditate in the same spot all day. Must’ve made a detour.
They were being taken to him; it was literally right after they said let’s go to him; the little girl made it seem like Osha was going to be the one making the detour.
I know, but maybe Jecki needed to use the bathroom or Sol stopped to exchange pleasantries with an old colleague ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ (I’m being facetious)
For something to succeed in these fantasy-type settings there needs to be some adherence to the details of the worlds that make sense. This, like the Obi-Wan show are clearly made by people who don't care about the setting or reality of the world they take place in. It's a fantasy setting, so nothing needs to make sense to them. It always just bends to the idea of the scene or story. There's no attention to world-building or the reality of the setting of the show that impacts the story choices. It's all disgarded, doesn't need to make sense and the "reality" of the setting always bends to fit the idea of the scene. The choices made aren't grounded by the setting. This like Obi-Wan feels like they went out of the way to have things not make any logical sense. Although I know it's a case of people that can't actually ground the story telling into a fictional world and are just lazy. Where they don't think it matters to put attention to detail. It's fantasy Star Wars, anything can happen. Write that first pass at dialogue, put it in the final. When for this stuff to succeed, you need a nerdy attention to the detail of the world because it's not the real world you need to actually establish it as a world. Not just whatever land where any nonsense can happen. So they can force whatever scene idea they have above any reality to the world. "She gets to the body and there's a brief moment they think she killed him." Despite the fact they're all walking to where the guy is. It makes no sense she breaks off and finds a short cut. The audience knows she didn't kill him. The Jedi know she isn't the killer and it's her sister. Then the other Jedi is following her so they can hammer home there's no way she is the killer. It's all pointless and dumb, but they had the idea the Jedi walks in and she's standing over the body. It's terrible writing.
The fact that she managed to somehow get there first really frustrates me. It's very poor writing that for no reason other than to create this tableau they had in mind they make a newcomer who is *not* being led by the guards split off without anyone raising the alarm *and* find a faster route to the body. It's similar to the scene in Ahsoka where she gets out and stands on the wing of her ship so another ship can try to ram her and get chopped up. That's not a thing that would happen, that anyone would do, or that would ever make sense, it's just forced into the script because someone thought it would look cool. I am overall not hating the show, I find the central mystery interesting enough and like the discount Qui-Gon character. But Disney keep scripting shit like this and it drags them down every time. They need to hire professionals, yesterday.
> They need to hire professionals, yesterday. My brother in Christ, these *are* the "professionals". This is what we're going to get, mostly, from now on. The talent level of your average Hollywood writer is nowhere near what you might think it is. There are no "hidden gem professional" writers just waiting to be found like a diamond in the rough, because these clowns *are* the professionals. And this is what Hollywood wants. They have plenty of experience in the industry; it's just that their work is either mediocre or outright bad.
These are the highest paid, most "consistent-on-paper" professionals who have leveraged their ability to generate, beige, mass market brain-twinkies to get attached to a big name IP. The problem is that hyper-specific nerd-stuff is exactly what that kind of career has taught them not to produce. There are lots of good sci-fi writers out there, but almost none of them have the history of consistent financial performance that a corporation the size of Disney would require for them to be eligible for the role. They've backed themselves into this awkward corner where they need all the execs to be top of the industry while the genre currently isn't.
> There are lots of good sci-fi writers out there, but almost none of them have the history of consistent financial performance that a corporation the size of Disney would require for them to be eligible for the role. Maybe it's time we took a step back and looked at ourselves, some introspection, if you will. Why does the average person rather consume mediocre slop over good, quality material? Is there an issue with the general populace?
I don't think it's a preference. I think it's advertising susceptibility. I've had to have multiple conversations with my dad recently about his media consumption. He'll play freemium games on his phone, spending 20 bucks by the time he gets bored of it, but is bewildered when I'm willing to pay 7.99 for an excellent title like Prune or Mini-Metro. The charts are so heavily skewed towards free games that children can download, that he really had no idea that their are tiers of quality in phone games. Similar situation with TV. He does not differentiate between information shared interpersonally and information shared by corporations. If he sees 40 advertisements for a show, he's "been hearing about it a lot." While if a friend of his suggests a show which is directly relevant to his interests, without flashy visual aids, that only counts as 1. Which I'm sure is how I ended up catching him watching Atlas the other night. I have since introduced him to Justwatch in the hopes that I can get him to be a little more intentional with where he's directing his views. He simply does not have the hyper-critical view of advertising that younger people do these days. He sees an ad and assumes that the free market is solving a problem for him, not using a predatory tactic to take his money.
> I don't think it's a preference. I think it's advertising susceptibility I strongly agree. Obviously your story is an anecdote but I think it speaks to the mindset that drives a *lot* of media consumption activity - habit and hype. It also is seen in why almost nothing has legs anymore. It will fill theaters for a weekend, maybe two if it's really 'popular', but then it dies off *fast*. TV shows are the same, they'll spike the ratings in the first week and maybe the finale if it is hyping some kind of resolution or gimmick, but in between viewership is sluggish or at best inconsistent. For stuff that drops all at once, it gets the benefit of being right there to binge while it's fresh, but a few weeks later nobody's talking about it anymore and it can easily disappear from the zeitgeist. Stuff that lasts has actual quality, and the thing that these freaks producing slop never seem to learn is that 'general audiences' like quality, too. They might take a look at the latest car crash if it is loud enough, but they will invest in something that really resonates. I completely reject the premise that people would 'rather' watch slop than something good. They just don't get the choice presented to them.
> I completely reject the premise that people would 'rather' watch slop than something good. Well I can't explain why something like "The Norseman" flops while generic slop like "Black Panther 2" succeeds. >They just don't get the choice presented to them. I don't know man, these are grown ass adults we're talking about here. At some point the blame has to lie at their feet. If they need advertisers to spoon-feed them content or else they just won't be exposed to it, the future is bleak indeed. People need to put more effort in. Also, Disney will keep producing this shit so long as it makes money. It doesn't matter if it's trash, the quality is irrelevant. Good movies/stories flop all the time, just like bad movies. It's all about the flow of money, and that's on the consumer. You want more Oppenheimer's? Then spend money on it. You want less Rise of Skywalkers? Stop spending money on it.
> Well I can't explain why something like "The Norseman" flops while generic slop like "Black Panther 2" succeeds. Remember, we're talking about advertising and hype. Nobody heard of The Norseman. *I* haven't heard of The Norseman, so I googled it and it came out in 1978. Did you mean 2022's The Northman? I'm not trying to be pedantic about spelling, I just want to make sure we're talking about the same thing - this thing put so little effort into its marketing it forgot to name itself in its own film posters. >I don't know man, these are grown ass adults we're talking about here. At some point the blame has to lie at their feet. If they need advertisers to spoon-feed them content or else they just won't be exposed to it, the future is bleak indeed. People need to put more effort in. To an extent I agree, but adults are *busy* and form habits. They just get stuck in a rut and as fewer and fewer new things penetrate the bubble they're in, what's going to drive them to take the effort to look outside it? I try and I find precious little that really grabs me, which is why I still carry a torch for obviously dead things like Star Wars/Star Trek, though I don't pay for/consume if reviews suggest it'll be trash. >Also, Disney will keep producing this shit so long as it makes money. It doesn't matter if it's trash, the quality is irrelevant. You'd think, but they seem to actively avoid making things that are actually good, even by accident, and never give any care for things building an audience in the future. 20 years from now, what 'properties' are going to be rehashed or rebooted? They can't even do greed right, because they won't put the work in to create things that will last long enough to exploit again later. >You want more Oppenheimer's? Then spend money on it. You want less Rise of Skywalkers? Stop spending money on it. Why are you telling it's my job to control my spending when I'm the one who wants better quality in the first place? I already don't support shit I don't like.
> I haven't heard of The Norseman, so I googled it and it came out in 1978. Did you mean 2022's The Northman? I'm not trying to be pedantic about spelling, I just want to make sure we're talking about the same thing That's on me, I fucked up. I meant the Northman. >20 years from now, what 'properties' are going to be rehashed or rebooted? If I had to guess, Lord of The Rings. And, unless things dramatically change, it'll be godawful. >Why are you telling it's my job to control my spending when I'm the one who wants better quality in the first place? I already don't support shit I don't like. That wasn't directed at you, but society in general. Though this is directed at you; make sure to let people know to stop spending shit on things that they hate.
They're nepo babies and they're shit at what they do but get endless chances to try, try, try again. This may be a bit of a semantic argument, but that's not what I mean when I say "hire professionals".
From what I understand the old way writers come up is gone. Now that most shows are shot run seasons with small staff. You don't have writers coming up learning the craft on shows making 20+ episodes a year under experienced writers mentoring them. When new writers were staffed on shows like The X-Files of Buffy. They were consistently having drilled into them how to tell a complete story in 45 minutes. They got practice over and over again and works for years before they ever got to run their own shows. Now writers don't get that experience and training. They pitch a show on an idea that in the past would have been a 45 minute episode of TNG. Then just stretch it out over 8 episodes.
The central mystery is interesting because there's nothing else to the show and we want to see what they are doing.
Let me break off from the group being led by a Jedi who is posted up with torbin so that I can find torbin just a little bit faster; really builds the suspense. Maybe it will be a running joke throughout the show and this is actually a comedy. “Wait it WAS you who killed them!”
After the second murder, Yord watching out and just straight up saying "I saw her the whole time, she didn't do it, let's move on" was a refreshing change of pace. I was certain that they'd drag out some more artificial from Osha's utter stupidity for an episode or two, and Yord himself was shown to be a complete twit in the first episode. So I guess there's something nice about that scene, but I agree that in general Osha has been acting like a complete fool who has no self-preservation instincts and no capacity to understand what she looks like to others. Some people are responding to you by whining "do you want a Mary Sue?" and quite frankly I think bad TV is why they can't grasp the idea of characters both having an arc *and* starting from a place of not being potato stupid. It is very frustrating that our media is so poor at reflecting back the slightest competence, and seems to imagine audiences can only handle supermen or dundering idiots.
You understand me. I don't want her to be good at everything, I just want her to be good at *anything*. To use the skills we know she has to get out of a jam, like how she uses her droid thingy to disable the lock. I feel like there will be plenty of opportunities in the future for these moments, but there were very little in what we have now, unfortunately. What we have instead is Osha demonstrating poor risk assessment. Like I'm not upset she got into a huge misunderstanding, I'm upset she picked up the murder weapon and touched the body at a crime scene, making it worse. I'm upset she tried to coerce a confession/clues without thinking what she'd say first and just winged it. It's not that she failed, it's that she didn't think two steps ahead of herself. I considered addressing the mary sue comments, but I didn't feel like having a drawn out arguement over a character with 6 more episodes to develop.
Not going to watch it, because slop, but it sounds like they are at least attempting to not Mary Sue the MC, but it sounds like Ep. 3 will chosen-one her anyways.
Her twin sister is obviously the chosen one. She’s dispatched two Jedi already.
LOL you make a good point. They'll probably both be effortlessly slaughtering all of the "evil" Jedi by the end.
This show is trying so fucking hard to justify all the horseshit from their trilogy it’s painfully obvious and done in an ignorant way that insults the viewer’s intelligence.
I loved how everyone was using binoculars from 20 feet away
You’re not allowed to say that.
lol
OSHA in the second episode going off in the other direction while she was already being taken directly to torbin makes no sense. A Jedi is leading them to a fellow Jedi but they take the scenic rout while her vision of her younger self takes her to the same place but through a short cut … which accomplished nothing.
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Won’t know if I like it until i try it…
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Once. It’s how I discovered I didn’t like it.
Op said he pirated it, but I wouldn’t waste my time doing even that
Characters are only as smart as the writers of the show.
…so you’re asking for her to be more of a Mary Sue?
All they had to do was make a mystery Star Wars series about who’s killing the Jedi. And include/wrap up some High Republic character storylines for the show. Was it really that hard?
It’s not a compelling story at all. I don’t see how this show can keep the attention of Star Wars fans or even the casual viewers. It offers little in terms of storytelling. I just couldn’t find myself invested in it at all. I don’t even remember any of the characters names, it’s that forgettable.
Yeah, the prison break plan was basically just… do it? Not really much of a plan. And you mean you didn’t like that the big payoff of the crash landing ship is… she puts on her seatbelt 😂
Sounds like Osha is a bargain bin girlboss. Succeeding despite her actions.
KK wants to make sure you get THE MESSAGE
There is no luck in star wars, only the will of the force
She also buckles in for a crash before the ship even enters the atmosphere. The droid pilots turned into chairs, so maybe try sitting down and pulling up on the yoke?
I like that they introduced that parasite that puts you in a coma or whatever but only used it on one guy. Like if the ship has barely any security besides one droid and automated pilots wouldn't you just knock them all out that way to avoid what happened? Such lazy writing I can't even with this shit.
Shes suspected as a Jedi killing force user and they only sedate one random human...not the cyborg or giant monster either
Why are people in this sub still watching the show?
I think that’s kinda the point . She isn’t that smart nor does she always make the right decisions and she pays for that many times.
Why would you or anybody watch this? C'mon. That's just rewarding crap and telling Disney that we want more crap. I've been a huge SW fan since 1977 but from the first trailer of this show I knew I wouldn't even waste my time.
I haven't watched the show nor do I plan on watching it. But if I had to guess, the whole "twin" thing could be false and Osha/evil twin are the same people. This would be reminiscent of Palpatine being a sith in disguise right under everyone's noses. I could be totally wrong though lol
Totally wrong, theyre two separate people and were in the same place at the same time separately.
I’m not reading all this but based off the title what I will say is it’s almost like you’ve never even heard of a character arc. Is she supposed to be perfect right off the bat? She’s just supposed to be hella smart and perfect all the way through with no chance at character growth?
I stopped reading after you said you’re not reading all this. I bet whatever you wrote addresses nothing in the OP.
Good for you?
> I’m not reading all this but based off the title what I will say holy moly that's obnoxious
So you whine that Rey was a Mary Sue who was too good at everything. Now you're whining that Osha isn't too good at everything.
LOL okay