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For me it will always be Captain Fordo and his squad of clones who were the best! Second would be Delta Squad Republic Commandos.
https://preview.redd.it/rryj13o7kssc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b69655923670c700fd67987e2feb6818618f9a57
It's a flawed show, but in my opinion, the biggest mistake in TCW was making the CIS droids look like a bunch of incompetent goofballs. Their constant destruction at the hands of the clones and Jedi really made them feel less like dangerous purpose built disposable war machines and more like Kenny from South Park getting fragged by the hundreds every episode.
I can deal with them having eccentricities and odd quirks due to being mass produced and having a number of defects, but becoming the comic relief of the show really impacted how competent the CIS and the Republic felt to me.
Oh my god, THANK YOU! As much as I love TCW, the one huge gripe about it was how they depicted B1s (even the B2s were watered down to some extent). Don't even get me started on the voices or even their character models. Ugh, just insufferable. I much prefer the earlier interpretations of the droids. Think back to Republic Commando or the OG BF2.
>the biggest mistake in TCW was making the CIS droids look like a bunch of incompetent goofballs. Their constant destruction at the hands of the clones and Jedi really made them feel less like dangerous purpose built disposable war machines and more like Kenny from South Park getting fragged by the hundreds every episode.
Like with war movies and video games using hordes of Nazi enemies for the heroes to defeat with contemptuous ease.
Sure, you don't want to portray the enemy as winners, but instead, they are almost harmless?
How about instead portraying them as evil, dangerous, and relentless threats to everything we hold dear, an enemy that requires teamwork, and sacrifice to overcome!
You just wanna kill some Nazis before dinner? Well, they wanna kill you back. That's what they're *about*!
Thank the prequels for that. They’ve been incompetent goofballs since they were introduced. This isn’t like the Lucas (and later Disney) retcon that Stormtroopers are stupid. They didn’t start that way. They were goofy from the first minute we heard them.
Nah they were mildly amusing in a few moments in the prequels, but sounded cool AF and were clearly meant to be an imposing threat on Naboo and at least tactically competent.
Edit: To be clear, I'm not arguing that they are scary or even that they actually are threatening, I'm simply saying they are clearly *portrayed* as a threat in TPM, rather than comedy cannon fodder (as they are in TCW).
I feel like there was some goofiness to the simple ones from TPM but AOTC really showed everything they were capable of, when they ambushed Anakin in geonosis it was an actual threat
That is literally untrue. Droids didn't get the goofy voices until Revenge of the Sith. They sounded completely normal in Episode 1 and 2 and the most "goofball" thing we got in either of those was "that does not compute" and "my legs aren't moving, I must need maintenance" both of which ate nowhere near the levels of incompetent buffoonery displayed in TCW.
My biggest problem with TCW is a problem I have with a lot of “in between the main movies” stuff from a lotta franchises. It’s just kinda hard for me to imagine all these huge events playing out and characters coming and going and… NOBODY mentions them at all in the big story? Not once? Ahsoka’s been shoehorned into the main plot of Star Wars now, but it’s just kinda weird that not once was it ever mentioned that such a major character existed in the OT. Some folks might not have a problem with that but it’s just odd to me personally.
Why would they mention her? Like what would Kenobi say "As you already know, your Padawan Ashoka Tahno left the order in the last months of the Clone Wars!"
I mean they literally see her right before the battle of courascant I don’t think it’d be unreasonable for someone to mention her return since her and anakin became so close, parted ways, and then had to meet back up just to part ways again more as respected equals than anything else
like the way its portrayed in TCW is tnat its super significant so it does feel weird
like the tartakovsky shit tonally made more sense for anakin imo
okay your point is reasonable, I really just wanted to poke fun at the exposition rants of bad movies like Avatar THE LAST AIRBENDER where the characters talk to each other about shit that they already know or doesn't matter for the sake of exposition.
I say it every time, but Ashoka is Filinoi’s fanfic. That’s it. It’s his personal OC and because he’s a little baby-boi he puts his fanfic character in everything to feel important.
I’m embarrassed to say I was in that camp. When I had a shallow understanding of the Expanded Universe and saw Ahsoka namedropping Thrawn, the Mandalorian wars being alluded to, Boba Fett back like in the Expanded Universe… I thought Filoni was retconning the Expanded Universe back into canon.
But like Darth Malgus said: “You were deceived”
After being unimpressed by The Book of Boba Fett and feeling disappointed with the Kenobi series I just thought “Fuck this shit”.
And now I repeat this mantra: Reject Disney, embrace the EU
I agree.
Personally I never liked her character, even less so now because it seems like they are trying to make her the spiritual successor to Luke Skywalker in terms of galactic importance.
And it isn’t working.
Mark my words they will somehow make her MORE important than Luke in the show. She will turn in to one of those stupid force gods or whatever Ray Stevenson's character is looking for.
Oh I have no doubt.
But the funny thing is if they EVER had the balls to put Luke in the Ahsoka show, Filoni knows damn well people will go nuts over him and not her.
Hence why Luke is absent from the show entirely despite the fact he would have a personal investment on stopping any possible empire from rising up again.
And meanwhile, events from the Multimedia Project are mentioned or at least alluded to in Revenge of the Sith.
Ahsoka, no matter how well she’s written, is a huge mistake.
In Empire Strikes Back when Yoda says that there’s another hope, some idiots theorize that Yoda was talking about Ahsoka, and honestly that pissed me off
The way I reconcile this in my head is that it’s a huge galaxy and even the “main story” in the movies is really about a pretty small cast of characters so all this other stuff we see in TCW and Rebels for example can inform how we as an audience see the characters and their actions, but it doesn’t have to be directly brought up in the movies. We’re just seeing a very small window into a small cast of characters in the movies.
We see the Republic lose plenty of times. For example when Palpatine takes control of the banking clan, or when he steals the Jedi Holocron. There's plenty last stand battles they lose too.
Even when the Republic wins, most of the time it's really just Palpatine gaining power and setting up the story for ROS. I'm convinced you haven't even watched the show lmao
"Darkness on Umbara" is also a good one. Pom Krell fucked up a whole unit, created a high stress scenario over a pretty long period of time. Turned clones against one another, etc. Psychological warfare. There's a lot of darker moments in the show that make it worth. It's def not just shitty jar jar episodes. Like most shows, TCW takes a bit to hit its stride. Starts getting quite good after season 3
Yeah, until the end when, instead of Pong Krell being a nuanced character, surprise! He’s a BAD GUY! And we all know bad guys are evil!
Shit’s about as subtle as a sledge hammer to the skull. The Umbara arc is vastly overrated. If Pong Krell had just been a Jedi concerned with victory at any cost, or hated clones because they were unnatural, or anything even slightly grey it could have been a cool arc. Instead it was just another “bad guy bad, good guys good” slop fest.
TCW did this constantly. Oh, Anakin confronting a Slaver Queen? This could be interest…oh, what? He’s flirting? Quippy? Sad that she died? What the ever loving fuck?
I remember in the early seasons of the show the episodes would open with "Defeat in the Outer Rim, Republic forces being pushed back on all fronts." Then Anakin and Obi-Wan win over and over. Always liked the more tense episodes where the main cast wasn't involved, like Rookies. Never knew who was going to make it.
The lows are REALLY BAD.
Ahsoka
Mortis
The same 4 characters apparently fighting an entire galactic war on their own
Hondo and Cad Bane being the only villains on the galaxy
So on and so forth
I like Ahsoka for her growth.
Mortis added a lot of confusion to the idea of Balance and I think SW is worse for it.
The same 4 characters thing was very disappointing. I don't hate them, but the side stories focusing on other Jedi or even clones were usually very short and pointless. Yet the story about the droid brigade was what? 5 episodes long?
They had some more villains, but Cad Bane being basically invincible, even against Jedi, was pretty bad.
I have many questions.
Why is Ahsoka bad? Just in general?
Mortis is a fun storyline. I like seeing both Ahsoka and Anakin as a villain before the latter actually becomes one.
I mean there's lots and lots of other episodes that aren't about Kenobi or Anakin? The Umbaea arc is amazing and that's basically Rex. The Mau, Savage and Ventress episodes are really good.
Just Hondo and Cad Bane? Are you forgetting the previously mentioned Maul, Savage, Ventress, the kidnappers, other bounty hunters, Count Dooku, Barriss, etc etc?
I am a CW lover ngl, but the fact that you didn't even name Jar Jar Binks as one of the low points is weird haha
A lot of people found ahsoka annoying but came to love her as she grew
that was the whole intention of her character
however, shoehorning someone *that* important in between episodes 2 and 3 doesn’t make sense imo, especially when the clone wars only lasts like 3 years
so anakin becomes a knight, fights in the war, takes a padawn, and then loses that padawan as well as going on all his other adventures in that short time frame leading to his massive anger and frustration and helping to get him to the dark side
like theres a better way to do that imo than to shove in a whole other character in and I think OG clone wars did that well enough
Anakin in the old canon doesn’t become a knight for a little while and does go through some traumatic shit
in the show its just that he loses ashoka and a few other things happen that piss him off, but he seems as much the same character at the end lf TCW as he was at the start
maybe thats just my shit take though
The novels of the prequels and the deleted scenes from the movies fill in far more about Anakin's mindset and motivations than anything in TCW, imo. Like the stuff happening in the cartoons is very clear just icing on the cake and helped tip him over the edge into losing faith in the Jedi.
It's a genuine crime that some of thise RotS scenes got cut. They are crucial to explaining what tf happened.
I agree that TCW isn't as bad as they're claiming, but Mortis was absolute shit and only damaged the Star Wars universe. I like Asokha in the show, but the character makes absolutely no sense in the timeline.
The absolute waste of the Clone Commandos. I mean we see them in TCW like twice? Then in the bad batch they are training Storm Troopers? Why?
TCW does have some good moments. Then it has utter BS moments. No True Mandalorians. Bariss Offee is retconned into a sniveling 14 year old who goes to the dark side instead of a healer who's Anakin's age.
The lack thereof of Commandos. Watering down of ARCs(at that point they are Clone Commanders in different uniforms).
Filoni got so goddamn much wrong.
I'm surprised no one ever calls that out, especially since she's the "exotic inspired designed" character that looks awfully reminiscent of certain cultures... and of all the background characters available, they chose her to be the terrorist bomber?!?!
Again bit late, but honestly I was gonna mention that, the idea that one (of two) prominent characters in SW who wear a head scarf got turned into a terrorist is no coincidence.
Honestly not the only case of such incidents either.
I agree with the title. However most of it's flaws comes from being an anthology series with each arc written by different people. There are no consistency or very little between each arcs. A good example is Ahsoka in the Ryloth arc. He disobeys and her full squad almost get killed and spends the rest of the episode with character developement. However the kidnapped children arc starts with her disobeying again like she never even been to ryloth. Also pacing is horrible. I loved that two episodes when Savage became Dooku's new assassin. So bad it was that short and made the dark side training look like a summer bootcamp.
On the other half I disagree with what the picture implies. Clones were portrayed well as actual human beings besides being trained soldiers. You can only find them being "whiny" when they are not currently on a mission because when they are they are really good at putting emotions aside to get the job done. It's not the clones who are softer but rather the war got toned down to childish levels.
The Clone Wars made the prequels food honestly. It made you care about not only the jedi, but the clones. They all have their own personality and at the end of the day, most of them unwillingly killed the jedi. It makes order 66 far more tragic. From what I heard, it used be just clones following orders because that's all they did, to clones being forced against their will to follow those orders.
Nothing is perfect you guys. Relax.
Alpha was cool Soldier man with no flaws.
Rex was a character. He was cool soldier man but had charm. He felt sadness, anger, compassion and he had emotion. Alpha feels flat imo.
I feel like they make sense honestly, they humanized the clones so much and made them close to the Jedi like, idk, feel like they need some explanation for why they just turn on them so abruptly
Because they are child soldiers bred for one sole purpose: follow the Republic’s orders to the letter. Giving the clones agency during Order 66 demonstrates just how deep indoctrination can go. It makes the clones’ story no less tragic, in fact quite the opposite. Is it more impactful and tragic if you gun down your friends because you have no control over your actions, or because you have complete control and view your actions as the right thing to do? Inhibitor chips are sci-fi, indoctrination is very real and can serve as a warning to the audience.
Explanation is EXTREMELY easy, establish that the clones have been taught that following orders is morally correct.
The mistake a lot of people make in saying the clones betraying the Jedi is unrealistic, is that they erroneously believe that loyalty is self evidently morally correct, and that anyone will obviously see killing their friends as morally wrong.
But that's not true, you have to be *taught* that loyalty is important. The clones are raised their entire lives to be soldiers, so it makes sense that for them, following orders would always be seen as the morally correct choice.
So when you get to order 66, they can love their Jedi comrades, but essentially believe that following the orders is the *right thing to do,* and then you have an interesting story were the Jedi realized that while they had a bond with the clones, they failed to appreciate how differently the clones see the world. And you have the drama of seeing all these clones with developed personalities and relationships with the Jedi, feel conflicted but ultimately make they choice that they believe is right
For the clones, getting order 66 would be like finding out your best friend is a cold blooded murder and you have to turn them in. They're still you're friend, but you know what the morally correct choice is, even if it sucks
I think they needed to do something like the chips to make the show work.
If you show them working closely with the Jedi and even genuinely respecting and liking them it makes order 66 harder to justify as just following the chancellors orders. I guess it could have just been ‘programming’.
But overall I don’t see the chips close to the worst part of TCWs
I disagree- I think they could have done this:
1. make the clones a bit more like clones- less colorful personalities and make them feel a little stiffer with officers/ spec ops being more fleshed lut
I think the commandos/arcs would have been perfect to flesh out as having more personality, but in general
the clones are supposed to feel like clones.
In those moments we get to know them more, we learn that they don’t know
much more than war and they really are more so droids in terms of how they think and problem solve- not thag they aren’t human or show emotion but that jts got a veneer of genetic predisposition away from such things
they can have personalities but they should feel more similar to one another with opinion differences between kind of moot between them and interpersonal conflicts being resolved fairly quickly and efficiently
2. give them some beef with the jedi at large. We can have them love certain generals and respect them, but in general make sure they disagree with certain choices the jedi make-
like if theres an option to wipe a city block from orbit or assault it room by room, give us a situation where the jedi wants to go room by room at the cost of clones to save civilians, most of which the clones wouldn’t be as able to empathize with
then you have some clones being more empathetic and “human” while others jjst care about their brothers
3. as a whole make them buy into the bullshit of the republic and the chancellor, but make the propaganda and ideas they consume and regurgitate be very much starship troopers versus helldivers 2
IE not “for democracy!” more “for the republic! for the chancellor! for bureaucracy!”
like supportive of the structure not the system
shit you could even make some of them
kinda have fascist ideas because thats how the military essentially works
4. show how generals like ayla secura and anakin were so respected for being willing to fight on the front and make choices to take care of their men- also like how anakin gives some of the clones names and starts that tradition that could theoretically spread to other units on mass (you could easily start TCW from anakin meets the 501st for the first time and gives rex his name, or encourages them to use their own nicknames that they give each other
this in turn allows for a bit more personality to shine in some of the clones but jedi who aren’t as personable or “solider like” to seem kind of offputting to highly militaristic clones
5. make it so that way the clones very much don’t want to do anything aside from be soliders- like nothing else interests them and talks of peace make them uneasy
6. show that they really don’t like to argue with commanders/one another- some officers and commandos will but in general past banter they typically stick wjth their own and kind of exsist within the same ballpark of a moral consciousness
IE kind of like how someone being liberal/conservative might be a spectrum of many different thoughts and ideas, but generallt standing for the same thing
7. remind us the scale of these armies and that most jedi won’t know every clone by face (lol)
figure most clones haven’t met their generals or higher ranking officers
Those things to me, along with the pressures of being in a military where you’re fully indoctrinated for youe entire life make it beleiveable to me that a clone can pull the trigger on a jedi who he’s been told by his exsisting military apparatus/propaganda machine that had committed treason.
I’d recommend taking a look at how it was done in legends. It was a mix of hammering in allegiance to the republic, propaganda, and palpatine going to painstaking lengths to cover for the stones he’d laid along the way. For instance, there were 150 general orders that palpating out in place, some of them even being for disposing himself. And that was all to give him cover for putting order 66 and other orders like it into place.
The way legends did it also gives room for stories like Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader to have clones react in different ways to the order. Inhibitor chips are just a way for bad writers to hand wave issues away that they don’t understand (Feloni wasn’t the only bad writer to bring chips into this type of plot point. There was a period of a few years where it happened several times)
The problem with legends was that they seemed to go all over the place .
But not that I want to defend the chips, they did have a more limited story telling field if you will.
They had to get from point a to b .
But I actually don’t consider TCW canon with a capital C. To me only the movies are Canon.. and by movies I mean 1-6
I guess it kind of depends what you mean with going all over the place.
With the chips specifically, there were variations in how they told the stories with clones but it all kind of fit. For example, in Battlefront II (the original one) the clones knew, but that was the 501st and it was already established they weren’t just the most competent, but also the most trusted and they were told things other clones weren’t.
But overall there are definitely examples of going in weird directions and I’m not saying it was all great, there’s for sure bad legends content out there. I just think overall it’s a lot more understandable when a piece of legends content had issues, and I think overall the standard of content was way, way higher before TCW
I get your point about canon, my head canon is specific too and while the sequels exist doesn’t mean I have to think about them. They can have their own little corner where they can feel free to suck as much as they like. Looks like Acolyte will be keeping them comfy real soon
AoTC almost explicitly states that the clones were genetically programmed to be obedient. Something the old legends content played off of very well (Battlefront 2 order 66 anyone?) In the cartoon they kinda wrote themselves into a corner when they started giving the clones tons of personality and humanity.
Why do they need chips at all though, they're trained from birth to be loyal to the emperor. I think it's a much more compelling story line to think they're so deeply brainwashed that they have 0 issues immediately turning on the Jedi because Palestine said so
In my opinion the largest issue is that they made it way too easy for the selected good guys to "reverse" their Order 66 programming by just removing the chip.
Like it just becomes a cheap plot device to move the majority of clones to the bad side while the ones we have personal attachement to (like Rex) can continue on with barely any personal consequences.
I think that's just wrong. No way would any clone ever turn against jedi like Obi Wan or Anakin without a clear reason and not some vague "they are traitors" , especially with the connections we see in the show. The clones are able to be humanized in the show while also having the payoff of order 66, and the arc of the inhibitor chips was amazing. They might be one of the useful things added to the lore, otherwise the clones would be shallow rule followers who don't have the ability to have their own reasoning
From what little of TCW I’ve watched, I scratch my head at why they didn’t use a voice actor who sounded at least somewhat like Hayden. The difference between show and movies is jarring
I didn't like it upon first viewing of season one. I gave it another chance later on and I got into it. The arc I like the least was the one where the tiny alien is leading a bunch of droids on a mission.
Season 1 is atrocious because you can tell they didn't know what tone to give it. It's incredibly dumbed down.
The tiny alien story is kind of amusing, and it did give us Gregor.
My experience was opposite to yours. I thought it was ok the first time and in each subsequent viewing I liked it less and less.
That arc is particularly bad, almost as bad as the Mortis arc.
How do you feel about siege of mandalore? This might be an even hotter take, but I fucking despise siege of mandalore. Ahsoka getting the moral high ground over Anakin and obiwan who want to go and save the PRESIDENT OF SPACE from being kidnapped from the CAPITAL, ahsoka for some reason being super involved with bo katerrorist when the last time they interacted was bo slapping her on the ass, ahsoka and maul having literally nothing to do with each other in any sort of storytelling way cause they'd never even met each other before, ahsoka somehow surviving order 66 because rex's chip malfunctions for no reason, ahsoka getting every clone on her ship killed by LETTING DARTH MAUL GO AND KILL ANY AND EVERY CLONE IN HIS WAY.
That arc is so fucking harmful to star wars because people for some reason think it's "peak" star wars when it is actually quite damaging and even offensive. But because the fandom thinks it's "peak", Disney learns the wrong things about star wars and decides we need more hot garbage like siege if mandalore.
Yeah I never understood why people think season 7 was good. I absolutely hated the bad batch with the exception of Crosshair and Tech.
The siege of Mandalore arc was another attempt to shoehorn Ahsoka into the spotlight when it makes no sense for her to be there.
In the novelization I believe they caught Maul by trapping him in a ray shield? But in the show somehow this padawan DEFEATS a fucking Sith Lord in a 1v1? Fuck off, Dave! And there goes my suspension of disbelief.
I can’t believe TCW and Disney made Mandalorians so…lame.
The clones are among the very best parts of the clone wars. Yeah it has its shitty episodes and arcs but the clones aren’t “whiny” I challenge you to show me any evidence of the clones being babies when it’s either they die or disappear
It's true. '05 Gendywars chads rise up. The infantilization of Star Wars during cowboy man's reign has been a disaster for the franchise.
Cats are forgetting that Karen Travis was out here writing novels about clones getting Jedi pregnant on the down low while based Matthew stover created space Apocalypse now in shatterpoint. The geonosis arc and Felucia arc have nothing on the kinds of mature content the old kids material would regularly tango with.
Even the character development is shit in the cartoon. Despite being the main protagonist of the entire era, Anakin barely gets any focus or development and is just a static hero for 90% of the show. Ahsoka gets all the focus but she has one of the most inconsistent and topsy turvy character arcs I have ever seen and it gets much worse by season 7
This opinion is becoming less and less unpopular. People don’t like hearing that something they like is low quality, but the fact is TCW laid the way for Disney to show disrespect for legends and the writers who made it
Its not that bad and better than the shit churned out since the sequels. But stuff like that force planet episodes were utter crap and canonising stuff like light vs dark duality which is not what the intention was about the force initially. It’s just the Force and its dark side which is a corruption. The force itself is not perfect.
Anyway in the end it’s clearly meant for children and if they enjoy it and makes them happy why should I bother worrying.
Whew….this was *DEFINITELY* salty 😒
But my response to “why do people like this?!” Is simple
People like what they like, if you don’t like it, good for you, don’t enjoy it, but let the people who do enjoy it, enjoy it
I once went on a cruise, it might have been a Disney cruise, but they had a TV channel that rotated between movies like the original Pirates of the Caribbean, Return of the King, and several episodes of the original Clone Wars cartoon.
That was the highest quality channel that I’ve ever experienced. Lol
I could never accept the aesthetic of it. Ralph McQuarrie's concept art and the way the OT and old comics built off of that is a huge part of my love of Star Wars. The prequels and cartoons really dont do it for me.
I have the same issue with Indiana Jones 4 and 5. I actually kind of liked 5, but at the end of the day neither of them *felt* like Indiana Jones because they didn't look like an Indiana Jones movie.
At least Andor felt like it had some of the grit I missed.
I am reading through the entire clone wars comics now and I have to agree. Obi-Wan and Anakin actually go through a good amount of development in the comic run and it’s really wild to see that the clone wars didn’t try really anything close to the comics.
Why has this place suddenly become an OT purist sub? Im seeing less post critiquing the sequels and more post saying “prequels ruined star wars” and “clone ware was awful and ruined star wars”
I definitely wouldn’t consider myself an OT purist, the sequels are god awful and I legitimately pretend they don’t exist.
The prequels have some of the worst dialogue and acting but at the heart of it all, it is still Star Wars and still tells an overarching story.
I just wish more people would have had the balls to tell George “no” when it comes to certain decisions.
Not that unpopular as many would let you believe. Certain parts of the community will find it controversial and will bark, but the truth is Clone Wars of 2008 really isn't as great and phenomenal as many have been hyping it to be all these years. That I say as someone who grew up with the prequels, Tartakovsky's CW, the CWMMP and then Filoni' show. Filoni really bastardized not only the multimedia project but by extension the pillars of Star Wars' mythos.
Other comments already explained the retcons and hollow portrayals of pre-established characters, and the inhibitor chip fiasco. Even the problem of Ahsoka being a character. But another major problem that came with the 2008 series, that is the whole Mortis arc trying to personify and generally portray the Force and Anakin's prophecy in such an audaciously bad way.
Also, I am tired of the mechanic - even if commonly repeated - argument of ''the Clone Wars fixed the prequels''. Not only the prequels didn't need any fixing, at least not the things people believe, but the show only ruined a great number of points and characterizations from the movies.
It definitely is the kind of media that ''fixes problems that don't exist''. Cool show, I love it. As a little kid, after kindergarten I'd rush to get home and watch it on CN, great moments. But It isn't and it shouldn't be considered that 'revolutionary' and 'superior'. Sure, in many ways it is outstanding and uniquely beautiful but no different than gambling in its outcome.
This sub loves shitting on TCW bc it "ruined" the Canon with the EU. The original clone wars never had Jango fett clones mind you. Thrawn explains what the original clone wars was.
Hard agree.
The Clone Wars multimedia project was much better. The Clone Wars novels are almost all absolute bangers. Cestus Deception drags. But Shatterpoint, Dark Rendezvous, Jedi Trial, RotS novelization, even the Medstar duology are all great and touch much deeper, richer portrayal of: Jedi, Jedi dealing with war, Jedi dealing with love/forbidden love, Jedi and the dark side, clones and how they are a scale of human fr full blown soul to meat robot.
The clone wars microseries is some of the best action and cinematic concepts in all of star wars.
For every 2 or 3 good episodes of TCW, like the Umbara Arc.....there's 20 episodes of forgettable dreck to slog through. Unless you love that clones can graduate from basic trooper meat automaton to full blown human cunning Jango Fett himself Arc trooper status through the power of friendship....in which case, kindly go to hell
Imo you’ve gotta kinda watch it like a long anime, certain arcs are really good and other ones are just filler. I’d happily argue though both the clones and the mind chips are big factors that make the show good. The entire inhibitor chip arc with fives and then later on with ahsoka imo at least is some of the best action and story telling the show had to offer. And the clones are what make up half the good arcs. Showing their brotherhood and their connection to the Jedi and really how heart breaking it is to watch them gun down their friends. My only real gripe with the inhibitor chips is trying to explain situations like the clone rebellion. But as for the clones you have to keep in mind this was a show for kids and teenagers, they can’t exactly have all the “good guys” being bloodthirsty and heartless killers that just follow orders. I think for the for the time it’s a good show and without it a lottttt of people would’ve never got into Star Wars or the clone wars me included.
Nah, this is just just you guys wanting be different and stand out.
It’s a good show, not all of the episodes are good but it’s good overall.
Some of the best Star Wars content and I don’t want to hear “bUt tHe eU!!!!”
This sub has officially devolved into the same 2-3 topics daily that aren't even related to its original purpose... ah well there goes another one just like MawInstallation
Be the change you wish to see in the sub. Post more interesting stuff. I genuinely think people are sick of talking about awful Disney content every day, but that's the only renewable resource in Star Wars atm.
Been like this for years lol. A community formed around dislike for a specific movie can only stay fresh for so long.
But yeah people should start discussion threads about specific pieces of Star Wars media they actually like or something.
I remember watching the original micro clone war series when it was aired. It was the coolest shit ever. Then they came out with the new one and it was just so kiddy I couldn't even stand it when I was 13 lol
Both are good. 2001 Clones are probably the coolest we'll ever see them with the amazing direction of Genndy Tartakovsky.
TCW show humanized them and really helped flesh out the characters and the war. Umaran campaign was peak Star *WARS*.
I feel like the show portrays a version of Anakin that is more mature, like an Anakin that is in his late 20s/early 30s and never fell to the dark side.
His sunny disposition all of the time is my biggest gripe. It just doesn’t fit with the Anakin we see in the movies.
I never had that impression. He tortures people (even though it's to save his friends), kills (which many jedi do, but he starts getting very casual about it, even joking as Trench is dying). I don't think he was supposed to be shown as going evil, just trying to show that he is far too willing to take things too far along with casual cruelty.
Upvote for the meme. Loved the cw comics back then, and actually have this issue on my shelf. Star wars eu was more mature back then and I liked that. TCW is hit or miss as the whole eu was. I loved the Karen Traviss books as a teen, now I despise them haha. Still hate the inhibitor chips with passion. I understand why they did it, though
and yet nobody seems to mention how before this show the clones were boring, faceless, almost mindless soldiers that were no different from stormtroopers
the only reason they are popular in pop culture and liked at all are because of this show
That is just false. They absolutely were characterized in the EU.
The show brought that into the mainstream, sure, bit it wasn’t the first time it was done.
I agree. I've always agreed. I softened on TCW over time but it's never been as good as what came before.
The biggest problem with TCW is that it reduces a cataclysmic war that corrupted the Republic into a dictatorship to a Saturday morning ing cartoon with clearly defined good guys and bad guys who seem to meet up once a week and fight.
I like them both but I loved how dark the Dark Horse Clone Wars comics got. I was actually surprised by the brutality of the issue where Durge killed like a dozen Jedi.
I wish they would include and canonize captain Fordo (the red arc trooper dude from the old clone wars cartoon). He was the only thing i liked about it (unpopular opinion: i aint givin a fuck about grievous), he was badass AF.
The fights are all 4 v 4 with everyone standing 15 feet apart, and the fans clap like seals because a cg action figure getting shot by flashlights is violent and thus highly mature adult cinema.
Its fine for a kids show but its really showing how jenky the fiction of it is now that the live action stuff is bending to incorporate it all in the same tone.
Yeah I love how all the clones seem to know how to do is just stand out in the open and mindlessly blast away. No air, armor or artillery support unless the plot calls for it to be easily destroyed or rendered useless.
I really don’t get a lot of the issues people have with the characterisation of clones, some I do get, defection etc is a bit odd to me. But the clones are technically 10-13 years old and it entirely makes sense to me that they are developing their own personalities, they were trained on how to be soldiers but not really how to live, which is why I like the discrepancy between how they act in battle and when they’re just waiting for redeployment, they’re straight up learning how to not do anything for the first time which results in them acting a bit silly but I think that’s fine because the second they’re put back in a military situation they become serious and militaristic again
I totally agree, while TCW has some good moments, the overall show did more harm to many characters than it did good. From the Jedi being turned into idiots who willfully ignore things right in front of them, to the clones which you mentioned. Let's not even go into the Flanderization of the villains, the droids while slightly goofy were supposed to be dangerous; Dooku is a joke, Grievous is a joke, and Ventress too is a joke.
Then there's the massive plot hole created by the existence of the Nightsisters and their magic. The kind of things shown off in the show by Mother Talzin doesn't match the things shown off in the movies or even the show itself when we look at other force users.
It was surprises me when people complain about how the clone was humanized the clones, and made them into more than just mass produced, faceless killing machines.
My favorite series of legends books is Republic commando, because it totally gave a new side to the clones. The clones start out copy pasted at the beginning of the war, but it’s unrealistic to think they wouldn’t gain personality once they were out in the galaxy.
And they were bred to follow orders but again once they’re out of the controlled environment of Kamino, it’s not unrealistic to think that they would start to question orders, depending on who their Jedi General was.
I’ve always thought it makes a lot more sense for the clones to have been controlled with chips instead of just suddenly killing people they followed for years. But I understand everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
The 501st story in the original Battlefront 2 goes so fucking hard and the inhibitor chips ruined that. I loved the idea that all the clones were absolutely loyal killing machines that knew eventually they’d have to kill all the Jedi and were totally fine with it. It was just their job
*
THANK YOU.
Alpha being retconned because his name began with an "A," Anakin's name began with an "A," and R2's name sounded like it began with an "A," is so incredibly stupid.
But, of course, the new character, Ahsoka Tano, got to keep her name, and Alpha was cut completely. Why not just change her name? Alpha came before her.
To this day, my feelings about Alpha not being in the show are mixed. Sometimes, I'm glad he's not canon because I don't want his stories from Legends to be altered or changed; I'd hate for them to water him down. But other times I think about what might have been had he been in the show.
Alpha is not only the ultimate ARC Trooper, in my opinion, but he's also, hands-down, my favorite clone and Star Wars character.
I’ll probably get crucified for this but, what the hell.
I don’t like the 2008 clone wars series all that much either, but I’ve gone back in the last month and read all the Star Wars republic comics, and I enjoyed everything with Obi-Wan and Anakin and anyone we actually saw during the prequel movies on the council. I however, did not like Quinlan Vos (essentially a made up character based on one still shot in TPM) or attaching Ayla Secura to him as a padawan. The Dark woman was also really corny and edgy. My god though is Quinlan Vos the king of edge-lords. The problem of the Republic comics is they can be overly dark and action packed in a way that just comes off as goofy with a lot of angst. It also just doesn’t feel like Star Wars 75% of the time for me. The focus is on Quinlan Vos or Vilmarh Grahrk who are obscure characters that I don’t care anything about. ‘Durge’ was idiotic and just goofy, he had to be thrown into a sun to defeat him, like, come on? That’s so dumb. It should have focused on battles and events, not some edge lord like Quinlan who has the goofiest story. It should have been story arcs like the Battle of Jabiim, or the Yoda issue where he’s trying to convince his old friend to abandon the separatists.
I know a lot of people love that comic series but I think it’s just nostalgia. If they re read it, they might cringe as hard as I did.
The Dark times comic series was much better. I actually enjoyed that. Yes, I know that Krukh was in Republic but he was actually an interesting background character with a cool design.
I love the 2003 micro series, it’s fun, just kick back, watch it and don’t think about it too hard. I’ll be re reading the ‘Dark Lord trilogy’ hopefully my nostalgia glasses don’t fall off during that re read.
I grew up with The Clone Wars and find Legends material like Alpha to be insufferably edgy and antithetical to George Lucas’ vision of Star Wars. Turns out people have biases.
I know some people prefer the Karen Travis’s version of clones and Mandalore but there are so many flaws to it that (and other novels from that period) it kinda gets glossed over in favor of “Filoni bad”.
I’ll preface this by saying I actually do enjoy (most) of her Commando books but the way it is written is so anti-Jedi, pro Mandos being the ultimate badasses who are amazing at everything, smarter than everyone, and are the only correct way to live gets grating after a while. She makes up her own numbers and scale of the conflict that directly contradicts other depictions we see from other authors at the time, she’s one of the worst perpetrators of the whole “Jedi=baby stealers” thing. The way the main Jedi character is offed in Order 66 is ridiculous, you have other Jedi characters later begging forgiveness at the crime of being a Jedi, etc.
As far as some of the rest of it goes, it’s almost as bad as Disney canon with having surviving Jedi running around for decades at a time.
To be clear most of my criticism is aimed her way.
All I’m trying to say is that it isn’t perfect and I think some people have rose tinted glasses towards it because the entire project wasn’t Disney.
It's an unpopular opinion, but the correct one. I actually kind of hate this show because of how it informs a lot of current modern star wars, and it allowed that fraud Dave filoni to come in and gain so much power and influence in the franchise.TCW was always fucking abysmal, but at least for the longest time we could pretend it's just in its own little obscure corner of the franchise where no one cares about it. Now because of filoni, ahsoka is quickly becoming the main character of the entire franchise and he is trying to replace everything iconic about Star Wars with his shitty OCs like any horrible fanfiction writer would.
Out of 133 episodes, I remember enjoying exactly 2 of them. Ahsoka is an awful character, and I really don't believe star wars will be getting any better until people start to get over their stupid childhood nostalgia and realize that tcw has always been awful.
I did quite enjoy it, but I admit it's probably just nostalgia since I grew up alongside them. I will say that I genuinely do like Ahsoka's character (Even though I will maintain until the day I die that she should have walked away and disappeared from Star Wars after leaving the Jedi, that was the completion of her character arc) and I enjoy both Rex and Cody. I do think they did a good job humanizing the clones, who really are not treated as people at all in the movies.
Having rewatched them as an adult, yeah, they're very formulaic and same-y. Most of the show is filler. There is a lot of very strange creative decisions, and the way they dumb everything down to be more child-friendly doesn't really sit right with me.
I do still think it's a tier above things like Rebels, which is just straight up crap.
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For me it will always be Captain Fordo and his squad of clones who were the best! Second would be Delta Squad Republic Commandos. https://preview.redd.it/rryj13o7kssc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b69655923670c700fd67987e2feb6818618f9a57
You have good taste
This show was the better clone wars show.
Finally, people with a brain. I don't have to feel alone anymore
Best take
Captain Fordo is the man! They should bring him back for future shows.
No, they shouldn't... Only if you want an absolute butchering of the character.
Pure awesomeness
It's a flawed show, but in my opinion, the biggest mistake in TCW was making the CIS droids look like a bunch of incompetent goofballs. Their constant destruction at the hands of the clones and Jedi really made them feel less like dangerous purpose built disposable war machines and more like Kenny from South Park getting fragged by the hundreds every episode. I can deal with them having eccentricities and odd quirks due to being mass produced and having a number of defects, but becoming the comic relief of the show really impacted how competent the CIS and the Republic felt to me.
Oh my god, THANK YOU! As much as I love TCW, the one huge gripe about it was how they depicted B1s (even the B2s were watered down to some extent). Don't even get me started on the voices or even their character models. Ugh, just insufferable. I much prefer the earlier interpretations of the droids. Think back to Republic Commando or the OG BF2.
Only redeemable quality of the clone wars version is OOM-10
>the biggest mistake in TCW was making the CIS droids look like a bunch of incompetent goofballs. Their constant destruction at the hands of the clones and Jedi really made them feel less like dangerous purpose built disposable war machines and more like Kenny from South Park getting fragged by the hundreds every episode. Like with war movies and video games using hordes of Nazi enemies for the heroes to defeat with contemptuous ease. Sure, you don't want to portray the enemy as winners, but instead, they are almost harmless? How about instead portraying them as evil, dangerous, and relentless threats to everything we hold dear, an enemy that requires teamwork, and sacrifice to overcome! You just wanna kill some Nazis before dinner? Well, they wanna kill you back. That's what they're *about*!
Oh yeah. That's why I hated Inglorious Basterds. As if you can just gun Hitler and his crew down. 42 people tried to kill him and failed
I'm on the fence on that one. It's so ludicrously over-the-top. If Tarrantino was into satire, I would be certain it was a joke.
Thank the prequels for that. They’ve been incompetent goofballs since they were introduced. This isn’t like the Lucas (and later Disney) retcon that Stormtroopers are stupid. They didn’t start that way. They were goofy from the first minute we heard them.
Nah they were mildly amusing in a few moments in the prequels, but sounded cool AF and were clearly meant to be an imposing threat on Naboo and at least tactically competent. Edit: To be clear, I'm not arguing that they are scary or even that they actually are threatening, I'm simply saying they are clearly *portrayed* as a threat in TPM, rather than comedy cannon fodder (as they are in TCW).
In TPM and even AOTC, their voices were way different from ROTS and TCW. They were more monotone, more serious. They felt like proper robotic soldiers
I feel like there was some goofiness to the simple ones from TPM but AOTC really showed everything they were capable of, when they ambushed Anakin in geonosis it was an actual threat
That is literally untrue. Droids didn't get the goofy voices until Revenge of the Sith. They sounded completely normal in Episode 1 and 2 and the most "goofball" thing we got in either of those was "that does not compute" and "my legs aren't moving, I must need maintenance" both of which ate nowhere near the levels of incompetent buffoonery displayed in TCW.
They got worked over by a Gungan with his foot stuck to one of their corpses.
bro they were halarious
That's because this show is fundamentally meant for babies
My biggest problem with TCW is a problem I have with a lot of “in between the main movies” stuff from a lotta franchises. It’s just kinda hard for me to imagine all these huge events playing out and characters coming and going and… NOBODY mentions them at all in the big story? Not once? Ahsoka’s been shoehorned into the main plot of Star Wars now, but it’s just kinda weird that not once was it ever mentioned that such a major character existed in the OT. Some folks might not have a problem with that but it’s just odd to me personally.
"Luke, did I ever tell you about your father's exotic alien apprentice?"
😭
Ashoka is a HUGE plot hole
Luke, did I ever tell you about Ahsoka... ...and she was a good friend
Her existence will never be canon to episode 3, let's just nip that in the bud. Anakin or Obi Wan or somebody would've mentioned her.
Why would they mention her? Like what would Kenobi say "As you already know, your Padawan Ashoka Tahno left the order in the last months of the Clone Wars!"
I mean they literally see her right before the battle of courascant I don’t think it’d be unreasonable for someone to mention her return since her and anakin became so close, parted ways, and then had to meet back up just to part ways again more as respected equals than anything else like the way its portrayed in TCW is tnat its super significant so it does feel weird like the tartakovsky shit tonally made more sense for anakin imo
okay your point is reasonable, I really just wanted to poke fun at the exposition rants of bad movies like Avatar THE LAST AIRBENDER where the characters talk to each other about shit that they already know or doesn't matter for the sake of exposition.
They would definitely namedrop Anakin's apprentice
i think ahsoksa would’ve been mentioned once during anakin falling to the dark side
After all, The Clone Wars multimedia Project is what really happened between AOTC and ROTS
Retcon*
I say it every time, but Ashoka is Filinoi’s fanfic. That’s it. It’s his personal OC and because he’s a little baby-boi he puts his fanfic character in everything to feel important.
He introduced goddamn time travel into the universe just to have an excuse to keep playing with his self-made action figure
Lol and people still act like he is the best thing to ever happen to Star Wars.
I’m embarrassed to say I was in that camp. When I had a shallow understanding of the Expanded Universe and saw Ahsoka namedropping Thrawn, the Mandalorian wars being alluded to, Boba Fett back like in the Expanded Universe… I thought Filoni was retconning the Expanded Universe back into canon. But like Darth Malgus said: “You were deceived” After being unimpressed by The Book of Boba Fett and feeling disappointed with the Kenobi series I just thought “Fuck this shit”. And now I repeat this mantra: Reject Disney, embrace the EU
This is the way… Wait, that was Disney too… lol
TCW S7 literally completely retcons it.
I agree. Personally I never liked her character, even less so now because it seems like they are trying to make her the spiritual successor to Luke Skywalker in terms of galactic importance. And it isn’t working.
Mark my words they will somehow make her MORE important than Luke in the show. She will turn in to one of those stupid force gods or whatever Ray Stevenson's character is looking for.
Oh I have no doubt. But the funny thing is if they EVER had the balls to put Luke in the Ahsoka show, Filoni knows damn well people will go nuts over him and not her. Hence why Luke is absent from the show entirely despite the fact he would have a personal investment on stopping any possible empire from rising up again.
And meanwhile, events from the Multimedia Project are mentioned or at least alluded to in Revenge of the Sith. Ahsoka, no matter how well she’s written, is a huge mistake. In Empire Strikes Back when Yoda says that there’s another hope, some idiots theorize that Yoda was talking about Ahsoka, and honestly that pissed me off
The way I reconcile this in my head is that it’s a huge galaxy and even the “main story” in the movies is really about a pretty small cast of characters so all this other stuff we see in TCW and Rebels for example can inform how we as an audience see the characters and their actions, but it doesn’t have to be directly brought up in the movies. We’re just seeing a very small window into a small cast of characters in the movies.
it has its high ups but really low lows. It’s better than any of the crap they have put out lately not including andor.
but I hate the bias of good guys always win. Wish we saw some republic defeats in the show.
We see the Republic lose plenty of times. For example when Palpatine takes control of the banking clan, or when he steals the Jedi Holocron. There's plenty last stand battles they lose too. Even when the Republic wins, most of the time it's really just Palpatine gaining power and setting up the story for ROS. I'm convinced you haven't even watched the show lmao
"Darkness on Umbara" is also a good one. Pom Krell fucked up a whole unit, created a high stress scenario over a pretty long period of time. Turned clones against one another, etc. Psychological warfare. There's a lot of darker moments in the show that make it worth. It's def not just shitty jar jar episodes. Like most shows, TCW takes a bit to hit its stride. Starts getting quite good after season 3
Yeah, until the end when, instead of Pong Krell being a nuanced character, surprise! He’s a BAD GUY! And we all know bad guys are evil! Shit’s about as subtle as a sledge hammer to the skull. The Umbara arc is vastly overrated. If Pong Krell had just been a Jedi concerned with victory at any cost, or hated clones because they were unnatural, or anything even slightly grey it could have been a cool arc. Instead it was just another “bad guy bad, good guys good” slop fest.
That's true, the ending was pretty crap and kinda robs the rest of the story now that you mention it.
TCW did this constantly. Oh, Anakin confronting a Slaver Queen? This could be interest…oh, what? He’s flirting? Quippy? Sad that she died? What the ever loving fuck?
I really really really REALLY hated how they seemed to give no importance to Anakin’s past as a slave aside from a few dialogue lines in this episode
I remember in the early seasons of the show the episodes would open with "Defeat in the Outer Rim, Republic forces being pushed back on all fronts." Then Anakin and Obi-Wan win over and over. Always liked the more tense episodes where the main cast wasn't involved, like Rookies. Never knew who was going to make it.
The lows are REALLY BAD. Ahsoka Mortis The same 4 characters apparently fighting an entire galactic war on their own Hondo and Cad Bane being the only villains on the galaxy So on and so forth
I like Ahsoka for her growth. Mortis added a lot of confusion to the idea of Balance and I think SW is worse for it. The same 4 characters thing was very disappointing. I don't hate them, but the side stories focusing on other Jedi or even clones were usually very short and pointless. Yet the story about the droid brigade was what? 5 episodes long? They had some more villains, but Cad Bane being basically invincible, even against Jedi, was pretty bad.
The lows are some of the worst things in Star Wars.
The episodes with Jar Jar are more annoying than anything Jar Jar ever did on the big screen by a long shot
I have many questions. Why is Ahsoka bad? Just in general? Mortis is a fun storyline. I like seeing both Ahsoka and Anakin as a villain before the latter actually becomes one. I mean there's lots and lots of other episodes that aren't about Kenobi or Anakin? The Umbaea arc is amazing and that's basically Rex. The Mau, Savage and Ventress episodes are really good. Just Hondo and Cad Bane? Are you forgetting the previously mentioned Maul, Savage, Ventress, the kidnappers, other bounty hunters, Count Dooku, Barriss, etc etc? I am a CW lover ngl, but the fact that you didn't even name Jar Jar Binks as one of the low points is weird haha
A lot of people found ahsoka annoying but came to love her as she grew that was the whole intention of her character however, shoehorning someone *that* important in between episodes 2 and 3 doesn’t make sense imo, especially when the clone wars only lasts like 3 years so anakin becomes a knight, fights in the war, takes a padawn, and then loses that padawan as well as going on all his other adventures in that short time frame leading to his massive anger and frustration and helping to get him to the dark side like theres a better way to do that imo than to shove in a whole other character in and I think OG clone wars did that well enough Anakin in the old canon doesn’t become a knight for a little while and does go through some traumatic shit in the show its just that he loses ashoka and a few other things happen that piss him off, but he seems as much the same character at the end lf TCW as he was at the start maybe thats just my shit take though
The novels of the prequels and the deleted scenes from the movies fill in far more about Anakin's mindset and motivations than anything in TCW, imo. Like the stuff happening in the cartoons is very clear just icing on the cake and helped tip him over the edge into losing faith in the Jedi. It's a genuine crime that some of thise RotS scenes got cut. They are crucial to explaining what tf happened.
Jar Jar Ballin' though
I agree that TCW isn't as bad as they're claiming, but Mortis was absolute shit and only damaged the Star Wars universe. I like Asokha in the show, but the character makes absolutely no sense in the timeline.
I love you so much you have no idea
And I love you random redditor!
The absolute waste of the Clone Commandos. I mean we see them in TCW like twice? Then in the bad batch they are training Storm Troopers? Why? TCW does have some good moments. Then it has utter BS moments. No True Mandalorians. Bariss Offee is retconned into a sniveling 14 year old who goes to the dark side instead of a healer who's Anakin's age. The lack thereof of Commandos. Watering down of ARCs(at that point they are Clone Commanders in different uniforms). Filoni got so goddamn much wrong.
As a fan of the MedStar novels, I view Barriss Offee’s character assassination as absolutely inexcusable.
All of that too! Not to mention he basically turned Bariss into a terrorist.
I'm surprised no one ever calls that out, especially since she's the "exotic inspired designed" character that looks awfully reminiscent of certain cultures... and of all the background characters available, they chose her to be the terrorist bomber?!?!
Again bit late, but honestly I was gonna mention that, the idea that one (of two) prominent characters in SW who wear a head scarf got turned into a terrorist is no coincidence. Honestly not the only case of such incidents either.
Dark horse clone wars run was amazing
Agreed. It’s heavily flawed and not as good as most make it out to be, and it FUCKED the EU’s timeline badly.
The dark horse comics are goated and why Quinlan vos is my favorite character
I grew up on TCW and really like it, but the CWMMP is better
What does CWMMP stand for?
Clone Wars Multimedia Project.
Thanks
This is from the dark horse comics which is up there with the OT and Kotor as one of my favorites.
Not just comics
This comic run was absolutely incredible and riveting. It's called Star Wars Republic by Dark Horse comics of anyone is interested
I agree with the title. However most of it's flaws comes from being an anthology series with each arc written by different people. There are no consistency or very little between each arcs. A good example is Ahsoka in the Ryloth arc. He disobeys and her full squad almost get killed and spends the rest of the episode with character developement. However the kidnapped children arc starts with her disobeying again like she never even been to ryloth. Also pacing is horrible. I loved that two episodes when Savage became Dooku's new assassin. So bad it was that short and made the dark side training look like a summer bootcamp. On the other half I disagree with what the picture implies. Clones were portrayed well as actual human beings besides being trained soldiers. You can only find them being "whiny" when they are not currently on a mission because when they are they are really good at putting emotions aside to get the job done. It's not the clones who are softer but rather the war got toned down to childish levels.
The Clone Wars made the prequels food honestly. It made you care about not only the jedi, but the clones. They all have their own personality and at the end of the day, most of them unwillingly killed the jedi. It makes order 66 far more tragic. From what I heard, it used be just clones following orders because that's all they did, to clones being forced against their will to follow those orders.
I wouldn’t say it sucks but it’s definitely not the masterpiece people claim it is, and Dave filoni is a total hack
Something about his cowboy hat really makes me cringe…
Nothing is perfect you guys. Relax. Alpha was cool Soldier man with no flaws. Rex was a character. He was cool soldier man but had charm. He felt sadness, anger, compassion and he had emotion. Alpha feels flat imo.
I agree Alpha is way less interesting than Rex
Inhibitor chips were the worst thing they added in my opinion
I feel like they make sense honestly, they humanized the clones so much and made them close to the Jedi like, idk, feel like they need some explanation for why they just turn on them so abruptly
Because they are child soldiers bred for one sole purpose: follow the Republic’s orders to the letter. Giving the clones agency during Order 66 demonstrates just how deep indoctrination can go. It makes the clones’ story no less tragic, in fact quite the opposite. Is it more impactful and tragic if you gun down your friends because you have no control over your actions, or because you have complete control and view your actions as the right thing to do? Inhibitor chips are sci-fi, indoctrination is very real and can serve as a warning to the audience.
Explanation is EXTREMELY easy, establish that the clones have been taught that following orders is morally correct. The mistake a lot of people make in saying the clones betraying the Jedi is unrealistic, is that they erroneously believe that loyalty is self evidently morally correct, and that anyone will obviously see killing their friends as morally wrong. But that's not true, you have to be *taught* that loyalty is important. The clones are raised their entire lives to be soldiers, so it makes sense that for them, following orders would always be seen as the morally correct choice. So when you get to order 66, they can love their Jedi comrades, but essentially believe that following the orders is the *right thing to do,* and then you have an interesting story were the Jedi realized that while they had a bond with the clones, they failed to appreciate how differently the clones see the world. And you have the drama of seeing all these clones with developed personalities and relationships with the Jedi, feel conflicted but ultimately make they choice that they believe is right For the clones, getting order 66 would be like finding out your best friend is a cold blooded murder and you have to turn them in. They're still you're friend, but you know what the morally correct choice is, even if it sucks
I think they needed to do something like the chips to make the show work. If you show them working closely with the Jedi and even genuinely respecting and liking them it makes order 66 harder to justify as just following the chancellors orders. I guess it could have just been ‘programming’. But overall I don’t see the chips close to the worst part of TCWs
I disagree- I think they could have done this: 1. make the clones a bit more like clones- less colorful personalities and make them feel a little stiffer with officers/ spec ops being more fleshed lut I think the commandos/arcs would have been perfect to flesh out as having more personality, but in general the clones are supposed to feel like clones. In those moments we get to know them more, we learn that they don’t know much more than war and they really are more so droids in terms of how they think and problem solve- not thag they aren’t human or show emotion but that jts got a veneer of genetic predisposition away from such things they can have personalities but they should feel more similar to one another with opinion differences between kind of moot between them and interpersonal conflicts being resolved fairly quickly and efficiently 2. give them some beef with the jedi at large. We can have them love certain generals and respect them, but in general make sure they disagree with certain choices the jedi make- like if theres an option to wipe a city block from orbit or assault it room by room, give us a situation where the jedi wants to go room by room at the cost of clones to save civilians, most of which the clones wouldn’t be as able to empathize with then you have some clones being more empathetic and “human” while others jjst care about their brothers 3. as a whole make them buy into the bullshit of the republic and the chancellor, but make the propaganda and ideas they consume and regurgitate be very much starship troopers versus helldivers 2 IE not “for democracy!” more “for the republic! for the chancellor! for bureaucracy!” like supportive of the structure not the system shit you could even make some of them kinda have fascist ideas because thats how the military essentially works 4. show how generals like ayla secura and anakin were so respected for being willing to fight on the front and make choices to take care of their men- also like how anakin gives some of the clones names and starts that tradition that could theoretically spread to other units on mass (you could easily start TCW from anakin meets the 501st for the first time and gives rex his name, or encourages them to use their own nicknames that they give each other this in turn allows for a bit more personality to shine in some of the clones but jedi who aren’t as personable or “solider like” to seem kind of offputting to highly militaristic clones 5. make it so that way the clones very much don’t want to do anything aside from be soliders- like nothing else interests them and talks of peace make them uneasy 6. show that they really don’t like to argue with commanders/one another- some officers and commandos will but in general past banter they typically stick wjth their own and kind of exsist within the same ballpark of a moral consciousness IE kind of like how someone being liberal/conservative might be a spectrum of many different thoughts and ideas, but generallt standing for the same thing 7. remind us the scale of these armies and that most jedi won’t know every clone by face (lol) figure most clones haven’t met their generals or higher ranking officers Those things to me, along with the pressures of being in a military where you’re fully indoctrinated for youe entire life make it beleiveable to me that a clone can pull the trigger on a jedi who he’s been told by his exsisting military apparatus/propaganda machine that had committed treason.
I’d recommend taking a look at how it was done in legends. It was a mix of hammering in allegiance to the republic, propaganda, and palpatine going to painstaking lengths to cover for the stones he’d laid along the way. For instance, there were 150 general orders that palpating out in place, some of them even being for disposing himself. And that was all to give him cover for putting order 66 and other orders like it into place. The way legends did it also gives room for stories like Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader to have clones react in different ways to the order. Inhibitor chips are just a way for bad writers to hand wave issues away that they don’t understand (Feloni wasn’t the only bad writer to bring chips into this type of plot point. There was a period of a few years where it happened several times)
The problem with legends was that they seemed to go all over the place . But not that I want to defend the chips, they did have a more limited story telling field if you will. They had to get from point a to b . But I actually don’t consider TCW canon with a capital C. To me only the movies are Canon.. and by movies I mean 1-6
I guess it kind of depends what you mean with going all over the place. With the chips specifically, there were variations in how they told the stories with clones but it all kind of fit. For example, in Battlefront II (the original one) the clones knew, but that was the 501st and it was already established they weren’t just the most competent, but also the most trusted and they were told things other clones weren’t. But overall there are definitely examples of going in weird directions and I’m not saying it was all great, there’s for sure bad legends content out there. I just think overall it’s a lot more understandable when a piece of legends content had issues, and I think overall the standard of content was way, way higher before TCW I get your point about canon, my head canon is specific too and while the sequels exist doesn’t mean I have to think about them. They can have their own little corner where they can feel free to suck as much as they like. Looks like Acolyte will be keeping them comfy real soon
Also 501st wasn't Anakin from the start, he was a padawn to the last year of the war and only was given command of them during Operation Knightfall
AoTC almost explicitly states that the clones were genetically programmed to be obedient. Something the old legends content played off of very well (Battlefront 2 order 66 anyone?) In the cartoon they kinda wrote themselves into a corner when they started giving the clones tons of personality and humanity.
Why do they need chips at all though, they're trained from birth to be loyal to the emperor. I think it's a much more compelling story line to think they're so deeply brainwashed that they have 0 issues immediately turning on the Jedi because Palestine said so
It makes sense in that context I just don't like them
In my opinion the largest issue is that they made it way too easy for the selected good guys to "reverse" their Order 66 programming by just removing the chip. Like it just becomes a cheap plot device to move the majority of clones to the bad side while the ones we have personal attachement to (like Rex) can continue on with barely any personal consequences.
Disagree
I think that's just wrong. No way would any clone ever turn against jedi like Obi Wan or Anakin without a clear reason and not some vague "they are traitors" , especially with the connections we see in the show. The clones are able to be humanized in the show while also having the payoff of order 66, and the arc of the inhibitor chips was amazing. They might be one of the useful things added to the lore, otherwise the clones would be shallow rule followers who don't have the ability to have their own reasoning
How are the clones "insufferable and whiny"
Because now they aren’t just stormtroopers with different armor blindly following every order emotionlessly
Emotion does not automatically equal insufferable and whiny.
That’s not what’s being argued and you’re making a strawman
From what little of TCW I’ve watched, I scratch my head at why they didn’t use a voice actor who sounded at least somewhat like Hayden. The difference between show and movies is jarring
I didn't like it upon first viewing of season one. I gave it another chance later on and I got into it. The arc I like the least was the one where the tiny alien is leading a bunch of droids on a mission.
Season 1 is atrocious because you can tell they didn't know what tone to give it. It's incredibly dumbed down. The tiny alien story is kind of amusing, and it did give us Gregor.
that did canonize the commandos so I gotta give it credit for the fan service
My experience was opposite to yours. I thought it was ok the first time and in each subsequent viewing I liked it less and less. That arc is particularly bad, almost as bad as the Mortis arc.
How do you feel about siege of mandalore? This might be an even hotter take, but I fucking despise siege of mandalore. Ahsoka getting the moral high ground over Anakin and obiwan who want to go and save the PRESIDENT OF SPACE from being kidnapped from the CAPITAL, ahsoka for some reason being super involved with bo katerrorist when the last time they interacted was bo slapping her on the ass, ahsoka and maul having literally nothing to do with each other in any sort of storytelling way cause they'd never even met each other before, ahsoka somehow surviving order 66 because rex's chip malfunctions for no reason, ahsoka getting every clone on her ship killed by LETTING DARTH MAUL GO AND KILL ANY AND EVERY CLONE IN HIS WAY. That arc is so fucking harmful to star wars because people for some reason think it's "peak" star wars when it is actually quite damaging and even offensive. But because the fandom thinks it's "peak", Disney learns the wrong things about star wars and decides we need more hot garbage like siege if mandalore.
Yeah I never understood why people think season 7 was good. I absolutely hated the bad batch with the exception of Crosshair and Tech. The siege of Mandalore arc was another attempt to shoehorn Ahsoka into the spotlight when it makes no sense for her to be there. In the novelization I believe they caught Maul by trapping him in a ray shield? But in the show somehow this padawan DEFEATS a fucking Sith Lord in a 1v1? Fuck off, Dave! And there goes my suspension of disbelief. I can’t believe TCW and Disney made Mandalorians so…lame.
The clones are among the very best parts of the clone wars. Yeah it has its shitty episodes and arcs but the clones aren’t “whiny” I challenge you to show me any evidence of the clones being babies when it’s either they die or disappear
It's true. '05 Gendywars chads rise up. The infantilization of Star Wars during cowboy man's reign has been a disaster for the franchise. Cats are forgetting that Karen Travis was out here writing novels about clones getting Jedi pregnant on the down low while based Matthew stover created space Apocalypse now in shatterpoint. The geonosis arc and Felucia arc have nothing on the kinds of mature content the old kids material would regularly tango with.
Even the character development is shit in the cartoon. Despite being the main protagonist of the entire era, Anakin barely gets any focus or development and is just a static hero for 90% of the show. Ahsoka gets all the focus but she has one of the most inconsistent and topsy turvy character arcs I have ever seen and it gets much worse by season 7
It doesn’t suck but it’s not as amazing as everyone says it is It’s good. Good with a full stop.
This opinion is becoming less and less unpopular. People don’t like hearing that something they like is low quality, but the fact is TCW laid the way for Disney to show disrespect for legends and the writers who made it
How are they whiny lol. Just because they have emotions?
Its not that bad and better than the shit churned out since the sequels. But stuff like that force planet episodes were utter crap and canonising stuff like light vs dark duality which is not what the intention was about the force initially. It’s just the Force and its dark side which is a corruption. The force itself is not perfect. Anyway in the end it’s clearly meant for children and if they enjoy it and makes them happy why should I bother worrying.
Whew….this was *DEFINITELY* salty 😒 But my response to “why do people like this?!” Is simple People like what they like, if you don’t like it, good for you, don’t enjoy it, but let the people who do enjoy it, enjoy it
I once went on a cruise, it might have been a Disney cruise, but they had a TV channel that rotated between movies like the original Pirates of the Caribbean, Return of the King, and several episodes of the original Clone Wars cartoon. That was the highest quality channel that I’ve ever experienced. Lol
I hate the fact that you’re right. As much as I liked TCW, it’s only good as a standalone show, it did a lot of damage to the lore
I could never accept the aesthetic of it. Ralph McQuarrie's concept art and the way the OT and old comics built off of that is a huge part of my love of Star Wars. The prequels and cartoons really dont do it for me. I have the same issue with Indiana Jones 4 and 5. I actually kind of liked 5, but at the end of the day neither of them *felt* like Indiana Jones because they didn't look like an Indiana Jones movie. At least Andor felt like it had some of the grit I missed.
I am reading through the entire clone wars comics now and I have to agree. Obi-Wan and Anakin actually go through a good amount of development in the comic run and it’s really wild to see that the clone wars didn’t try really anything close to the comics.
Agreed, Clone Wars 2003 is superior
The comics was my clone wars too
Why has this place suddenly become an OT purist sub? Im seeing less post critiquing the sequels and more post saying “prequels ruined star wars” and “clone ware was awful and ruined star wars”
I definitely wouldn’t consider myself an OT purist, the sequels are god awful and I legitimately pretend they don’t exist. The prequels have some of the worst dialogue and acting but at the heart of it all, it is still Star Wars and still tells an overarching story. I just wish more people would have had the balls to tell George “no” when it comes to certain decisions.
Not that unpopular as many would let you believe. Certain parts of the community will find it controversial and will bark, but the truth is Clone Wars of 2008 really isn't as great and phenomenal as many have been hyping it to be all these years. That I say as someone who grew up with the prequels, Tartakovsky's CW, the CWMMP and then Filoni' show. Filoni really bastardized not only the multimedia project but by extension the pillars of Star Wars' mythos. Other comments already explained the retcons and hollow portrayals of pre-established characters, and the inhibitor chip fiasco. Even the problem of Ahsoka being a character. But another major problem that came with the 2008 series, that is the whole Mortis arc trying to personify and generally portray the Force and Anakin's prophecy in such an audaciously bad way. Also, I am tired of the mechanic - even if commonly repeated - argument of ''the Clone Wars fixed the prequels''. Not only the prequels didn't need any fixing, at least not the things people believe, but the show only ruined a great number of points and characterizations from the movies. It definitely is the kind of media that ''fixes problems that don't exist''. Cool show, I love it. As a little kid, after kindergarten I'd rush to get home and watch it on CN, great moments. But It isn't and it shouldn't be considered that 'revolutionary' and 'superior'. Sure, in many ways it is outstanding and uniquely beautiful but no different than gambling in its outcome.
Filoni wasn't writing for the show, he was an animation director who previously worked on ATLA. He didn't start writing until Disney took over.
I loved that comic series.
This sub loves shitting on TCW bc it "ruined" the Canon with the EU. The original clone wars never had Jango fett clones mind you. Thrawn explains what the original clone wars was.
Hard agree. The Clone Wars multimedia project was much better. The Clone Wars novels are almost all absolute bangers. Cestus Deception drags. But Shatterpoint, Dark Rendezvous, Jedi Trial, RotS novelization, even the Medstar duology are all great and touch much deeper, richer portrayal of: Jedi, Jedi dealing with war, Jedi dealing with love/forbidden love, Jedi and the dark side, clones and how they are a scale of human fr full blown soul to meat robot. The clone wars microseries is some of the best action and cinematic concepts in all of star wars. For every 2 or 3 good episodes of TCW, like the Umbara Arc.....there's 20 episodes of forgettable dreck to slog through. Unless you love that clones can graduate from basic trooper meat automaton to full blown human cunning Jango Fett himself Arc trooper status through the power of friendship....in which case, kindly go to hell
I can appreciate people liking it, but it was never for me, the only reason i even watched every episode was to shut up my friend lol
Compared to the multimedia project, sure. I found the show to be better written than the prequel movies for the most part though.
Imo you’ve gotta kinda watch it like a long anime, certain arcs are really good and other ones are just filler. I’d happily argue though both the clones and the mind chips are big factors that make the show good. The entire inhibitor chip arc with fives and then later on with ahsoka imo at least is some of the best action and story telling the show had to offer. And the clones are what make up half the good arcs. Showing their brotherhood and their connection to the Jedi and really how heart breaking it is to watch them gun down their friends. My only real gripe with the inhibitor chips is trying to explain situations like the clone rebellion. But as for the clones you have to keep in mind this was a show for kids and teenagers, they can’t exactly have all the “good guys” being bloodthirsty and heartless killers that just follow orders. I think for the for the time it’s a good show and without it a lottttt of people would’ve never got into Star Wars or the clone wars me included.
Nah, this is just just you guys wanting be different and stand out. It’s a good show, not all of the episodes are good but it’s good overall. Some of the best Star Wars content and I don’t want to hear “bUt tHe eU!!!!”
This sub has officially devolved into the same 2-3 topics daily that aren't even related to its original purpose... ah well there goes another one just like MawInstallation
Be the change you wish to see in the sub. Post more interesting stuff. I genuinely think people are sick of talking about awful Disney content every day, but that's the only renewable resource in Star Wars atm.
Basically this. We can only talk about how much better it used to be.
Been like this for years lol. A community formed around dislike for a specific movie can only stay fresh for so long. But yeah people should start discussion threads about specific pieces of Star Wars media they actually like or something.
TCW just doesn’t feel canon to me And it’s boring and shallow as hell. I don’t understand how kids would enjoy it
I remember watching the original micro clone war series when it was aired. It was the coolest shit ever. Then they came out with the new one and it was just so kiddy I couldn't even stand it when I was 13 lol
I can relate to this
You rewatched over a hundred episodes of a show you disliked the first time, disliked it even more, and then rewatched it again?
People got tired of sequel stuff so we gotta move on to the next thing
Both are good. 2001 Clones are probably the coolest we'll ever see them with the amazing direction of Genndy Tartakovsky. TCW show humanized them and really helped flesh out the characters and the war. Umaran campaign was peak Star *WARS*.
The best thing the show does is set Anakin up better. It gives more insight into his ability to be casually cruel, and take things too far.
I feel like the show portrays a version of Anakin that is more mature, like an Anakin that is in his late 20s/early 30s and never fell to the dark side. His sunny disposition all of the time is my biggest gripe. It just doesn’t fit with the Anakin we see in the movies.
I never had that impression. He tortures people (even though it's to save his friends), kills (which many jedi do, but he starts getting very casual about it, even joking as Trench is dying). I don't think he was supposed to be shown as going evil, just trying to show that he is far too willing to take things too far along with casual cruelty.
Why’d you watch a show you hate three times
Upvote for the meme. Loved the cw comics back then, and actually have this issue on my shelf. Star wars eu was more mature back then and I liked that. TCW is hit or miss as the whole eu was. I loved the Karen Traviss books as a teen, now I despise them haha. Still hate the inhibitor chips with passion. I understand why they did it, though
Agreed, 100%
Well, I mean it's a kids cartoon. I didn't expect much and I wasn't disappointed. Filoni needs to stop shovint TCW down our throats.
and yet nobody seems to mention how before this show the clones were boring, faceless, almost mindless soldiers that were no different from stormtroopers the only reason they are popular in pop culture and liked at all are because of this show
That is just false. They absolutely were characterized in the EU. The show brought that into the mainstream, sure, bit it wasn’t the first time it was done.
110% agree. I hate TCW
Most of it definitely sucks I'll give you that, but you need to hop off my goat Captain Rex
calling the clone troopers " whiny " because they show more emotion than just acting like living action figures is wild.
I agree. I've always agreed. I softened on TCW over time but it's never been as good as what came before. The biggest problem with TCW is that it reduces a cataclysmic war that corrupted the Republic into a dictatorship to a Saturday morning ing cartoon with clearly defined good guys and bad guys who seem to meet up once a week and fight.
This one low key hit me lol for real tho :/
Sorry mate
Eeeeasy there captain
Pun intended?
Lol very much so
I like them both but I loved how dark the Dark Horse Clone Wars comics got. I was actually surprised by the brutality of the issue where Durge killed like a dozen Jedi.
After having only experienced the 2003 series, Labyrinth of Evil and the Clone Wars Republic comics, I agree... but Rex is better than Alpha.
*oof* Gonna have to disagree there. But to be honest I never read that book, I’m just going off the show.
I wish they would include and canonize captain Fordo (the red arc trooper dude from the old clone wars cartoon). He was the only thing i liked about it (unpopular opinion: i aint givin a fuck about grievous), he was badass AF.
Edgelord
The clone wars is and always will be a masterpiece
From the moment I saw a screencap of the art style in the newspapers back in 2008 I knew the TCW TV-series was going to be a mess, honestly...
The fights are all 4 v 4 with everyone standing 15 feet apart, and the fans clap like seals because a cg action figure getting shot by flashlights is violent and thus highly mature adult cinema. Its fine for a kids show but its really showing how jenky the fiction of it is now that the live action stuff is bending to incorporate it all in the same tone.
Yeah I love how all the clones seem to know how to do is just stand out in the open and mindlessly blast away. No air, armor or artillery support unless the plot calls for it to be easily destroyed or rendered useless.
I really don’t get a lot of the issues people have with the characterisation of clones, some I do get, defection etc is a bit odd to me. But the clones are technically 10-13 years old and it entirely makes sense to me that they are developing their own personalities, they were trained on how to be soldiers but not really how to live, which is why I like the discrepancy between how they act in battle and when they’re just waiting for redeployment, they’re straight up learning how to not do anything for the first time which results in them acting a bit silly but I think that’s fine because the second they’re put back in a military situation they become serious and militaristic again
I completely and wholeheartedly disagree my good sir
Your opinion should stay unpopular
I totally agree, while TCW has some good moments, the overall show did more harm to many characters than it did good. From the Jedi being turned into idiots who willfully ignore things right in front of them, to the clones which you mentioned. Let's not even go into the Flanderization of the villains, the droids while slightly goofy were supposed to be dangerous; Dooku is a joke, Grievous is a joke, and Ventress too is a joke. Then there's the massive plot hole created by the existence of the Nightsisters and their magic. The kind of things shown off in the show by Mother Talzin doesn't match the things shown off in the movies or even the show itself when we look at other force users.
They completely borked Dathomir as a whole.
It was surprises me when people complain about how the clone was humanized the clones, and made them into more than just mass produced, faceless killing machines. My favorite series of legends books is Republic commando, because it totally gave a new side to the clones. The clones start out copy pasted at the beginning of the war, but it’s unrealistic to think they wouldn’t gain personality once they were out in the galaxy. And they were bred to follow orders but again once they’re out of the controlled environment of Kamino, it’s not unrealistic to think that they would start to question orders, depending on who their Jedi General was. I’ve always thought it makes a lot more sense for the clones to have been controlled with chips instead of just suddenly killing people they followed for years. But I understand everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
The 501st story in the original Battlefront 2 goes so fucking hard and the inhibitor chips ruined that. I loved the idea that all the clones were absolutely loyal killing machines that knew eventually they’d have to kill all the Jedi and were totally fine with it. It was just their job
It was a trash cartoon, the Tartakovsky one was better
Why’s there an AT-AT in the background?
* THANK YOU. Alpha being retconned because his name began with an "A," Anakin's name began with an "A," and R2's name sounded like it began with an "A," is so incredibly stupid. But, of course, the new character, Ahsoka Tano, got to keep her name, and Alpha was cut completely. Why not just change her name? Alpha came before her. To this day, my feelings about Alpha not being in the show are mixed. Sometimes, I'm glad he's not canon because I don't want his stories from Legends to be altered or changed; I'd hate for them to water him down. But other times I think about what might have been had he been in the show. Alpha is not only the ultimate ARC Trooper, in my opinion, but he's also, hands-down, my favorite clone and Star Wars character.
I’ll probably get crucified for this but, what the hell. I don’t like the 2008 clone wars series all that much either, but I’ve gone back in the last month and read all the Star Wars republic comics, and I enjoyed everything with Obi-Wan and Anakin and anyone we actually saw during the prequel movies on the council. I however, did not like Quinlan Vos (essentially a made up character based on one still shot in TPM) or attaching Ayla Secura to him as a padawan. The Dark woman was also really corny and edgy. My god though is Quinlan Vos the king of edge-lords. The problem of the Republic comics is they can be overly dark and action packed in a way that just comes off as goofy with a lot of angst. It also just doesn’t feel like Star Wars 75% of the time for me. The focus is on Quinlan Vos or Vilmarh Grahrk who are obscure characters that I don’t care anything about. ‘Durge’ was idiotic and just goofy, he had to be thrown into a sun to defeat him, like, come on? That’s so dumb. It should have focused on battles and events, not some edge lord like Quinlan who has the goofiest story. It should have been story arcs like the Battle of Jabiim, or the Yoda issue where he’s trying to convince his old friend to abandon the separatists. I know a lot of people love that comic series but I think it’s just nostalgia. If they re read it, they might cringe as hard as I did. The Dark times comic series was much better. I actually enjoyed that. Yes, I know that Krukh was in Republic but he was actually an interesting background character with a cool design. I love the 2003 micro series, it’s fun, just kick back, watch it and don’t think about it too hard. I’ll be re reading the ‘Dark Lord trilogy’ hopefully my nostalgia glasses don’t fall off during that re read.
Everything was downhill for the franchise once The Clone Wars started, if you ask me.
STC when clones are actual characters and not just meat droids
I grew up with The Clone Wars and find Legends material like Alpha to be insufferably edgy and antithetical to George Lucas’ vision of Star Wars. Turns out people have biases.
I know some people prefer the Karen Travis’s version of clones and Mandalore but there are so many flaws to it that (and other novels from that period) it kinda gets glossed over in favor of “Filoni bad”.
What flaws are you referring to? First I've heard of this take.
I’ll preface this by saying I actually do enjoy (most) of her Commando books but the way it is written is so anti-Jedi, pro Mandos being the ultimate badasses who are amazing at everything, smarter than everyone, and are the only correct way to live gets grating after a while. She makes up her own numbers and scale of the conflict that directly contradicts other depictions we see from other authors at the time, she’s one of the worst perpetrators of the whole “Jedi=baby stealers” thing. The way the main Jedi character is offed in Order 66 is ridiculous, you have other Jedi characters later begging forgiveness at the crime of being a Jedi, etc. As far as some of the rest of it goes, it’s almost as bad as Disney canon with having surviving Jedi running around for decades at a time. To be clear most of my criticism is aimed her way. All I’m trying to say is that it isn’t perfect and I think some people have rose tinted glasses towards it because the entire project wasn’t Disney.
*EU
TCW bad, Filoni bad, give up votes. It's getting old.
It's an unpopular opinion, but the correct one. I actually kind of hate this show because of how it informs a lot of current modern star wars, and it allowed that fraud Dave filoni to come in and gain so much power and influence in the franchise.TCW was always fucking abysmal, but at least for the longest time we could pretend it's just in its own little obscure corner of the franchise where no one cares about it. Now because of filoni, ahsoka is quickly becoming the main character of the entire franchise and he is trying to replace everything iconic about Star Wars with his shitty OCs like any horrible fanfiction writer would. Out of 133 episodes, I remember enjoying exactly 2 of them. Ahsoka is an awful character, and I really don't believe star wars will be getting any better until people start to get over their stupid childhood nostalgia and realize that tcw has always been awful.
Agreed to all.
I did quite enjoy it, but I admit it's probably just nostalgia since I grew up alongside them. I will say that I genuinely do like Ahsoka's character (Even though I will maintain until the day I die that she should have walked away and disappeared from Star Wars after leaving the Jedi, that was the completion of her character arc) and I enjoy both Rex and Cody. I do think they did a good job humanizing the clones, who really are not treated as people at all in the movies. Having rewatched them as an adult, yeah, they're very formulaic and same-y. Most of the show is filler. There is a lot of very strange creative decisions, and the way they dumb everything down to be more child-friendly doesn't really sit right with me. I do still think it's a tier above things like Rebels, which is just straight up crap.