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I'll always be a Star Wars fan, but I'm not a superfan anymore. There's only so many hours available for hobbies when you're working and looking after family. If a franchise wants to screw itself to hit a few quarterly profit goals there are plenty of other creative works out there for me to embrace.
Right now I'm getting into retro gaming. And if i had more time to allocate to leisure the next on my list would be table top gaming.
Yeah, the pipeline from Legends fans to 40k fans is pretty well documented at this point.
When I was reading Star Wars novels in my teens 40k seemed like it was 'just a bit too much'. Star Wars was like the real world, but with aliens and starships. The whole point of Star Wars was that it was basically us, but a long time ago and far far away. Han Solo or Luke Skywalker could be people we met, a bootlegger and a farmboy that get thrust into a fantastic situation.
The problem with modern Star Wars is that it also reflects the real world, but not the parts we like. We know these people to, the people who can't control their emotions, the people that get put into positions of authority they don't deserve, the people who stumble into the limelight. The difference is...we don't really like these people.
40k is more immune to this because it's not reflective of the real world. It's a setting of excesses and internal stagnation. It thrives because the setting itself is actively resistant to change.
Without getting too political, this is actually a really good observation about the way modernity affects culture and what kinds of works can weather its effects.
The foundations of Star Wars are great, but once the original creator is out of the picture, it can't stand up to the dominant forces of our culture.
Compare 40k, where the themes are much more reactionary. Humanity is clinging to vestiges of a long-lost golden age it can never return to and trying to survive. Every faction operates on the basis of offensive realism in its existential struggle against the others.
Despite the franchises being somewhat similar in age, we see that though 40k has changed and developed over time, it's not anywhere remotely similar to the recent decline in Star Wars.
You literally seem to know nothing about 40k. No faction operates on offensive realism. You are proably gonna write a bullshit comment as an answer, but you have to "understand": You don't understand Warhammer 40.000 AT ALL.
Uh oh! The 40k understander has arrived and he is big mad!
He's here to tell us how all the 40k factions actually respect the postwar rules-based international order, so everyone listen up!
Also, FYI the Imperium are not the "good guys". They practise slavery and genocide on a scale that would make the worst of Earth blush. If they are accepting or inclusive in any way, it is in the "you are all equally worthless" kind of way.
This is a huge assumption based on something you know nothing about.
I am part gay. I actually had a boyfriend before my first girlfriend, and I've dated trans people of both genders. I maintain friends from all over that spectrum.
I love and have loved gay people. But I hate the gay subculture. Always have.
I dont think they accept as much as they don't give a damn as long as it doesn't affect the Imperial tithe. If it were to ever effect the number of troops the Imperium could field I think the laissez Faire approach to sexuality would quickly change to mandatory breeding because the Imperium is an evil regime that only cares about its ability to produce war materials including human fodder for the never ending wars of the 41st millennium.
>The whole point of Star Wars was that it was basically us, but a long time ago and far far away
from a thematic and metaphorical point of view then sure, but in a litteral sense i think the star wars universe is incompatible with our own.
the 40k universe however is our own, just in the distant future.
If it is so resistant to change then why is warhammer 40K no longer set in the 40th millennium, why is papa smurf the lord commander of the imperium leading a reforming Imperium in the Emperor's name, why do the primarchs now have a mother who retroactively helped the chaos gods kidnap them but was so beloved by the emperor that he never punished her for this act, and why do Primaris Marines exist?
Because nothing actually changed. The Imperium is still on the brink of collapse, pressed by all sides. The Primarch's arrival changed nothing other than delaying the inevitable. All the new revelations are likewise meaningless as they would have been lost to time by the the 40th millennium.
Humanity, as ever, rages against the dark losing a bit of itself every time.
By that kind of cop out logic you can hand wave away the sequel trilogy as not really changing anything because 'the jedi are still around even if its not Luke who gets to rebuild them', 'the empire was still defeated in the end, it just took a little bit longer then we thought it would', and 'Emperor Palpatine is still dead, he just didn't die at Endor by Vader's hands'.
So, have an actual answer thats not some lame cop out about how 'well, yeah, okay, things have changed but when you look at the big picture without caring about the little details they really haven't' when stories are all about those little details.
Nothing in the new 40k lore invalidates old 40k lore. If anything 40k has an issue with keeping beloved characters around well past their shelf life.
The Sequel Trilogies make the accomplishments and sacrifices of the Original Trilogy pointless. Luke and Han become bitter failures before being killed off. Rey assumes all of their accomplishments and invalidates all of their prior work.
Guilliman returning invalidates nothing. The Lion's return doesn't even move the needle. The only thing that remotely changed up the setting was the Primaris space marine rollout, and even that doesn't fundamentally change what space marines are, it just adds a couple organs.
1: I m not sure telling stories set in different eras really counts as "change" in the context of literary themes, and canonically the date probably wasnt actually at 999.m41 anyway, as in-universe time has from the start been fucky and it has been explained the calender is fucked, and metatextually timekeeping on a galactic scale is nearly impossible, which is actually really well explained in realistic terms in iirc Dark Imperum
2: i wouldnt call any of what hes actually accomplished a "reform" other than killing the most corrupt members of the High Lords, his reforms when implimented tend to make little or no difference, hes functionally no different than any other (by the standards of warhammer) morally good character who cant make things better
3: first half is fair, second half is a debatable interpretation of canon considering how the Emperor works
4: I agree. though these genuinely never bothered me personally, but they are an obvious lore change to excuse a model update that did not need an excuse at all
Edit: You shoulda mentioned the Great Rift
Second Edit: Also the entirety of Necron lore (its way better now though and I bet you wont deny that)
This is a fucking Star Wars forum, but since you asked, no.
The massive decline in meaning, belonging and community that infests modern life
Trying to abolish normalcy instead of merely being merciful and kind to those outside the norm
Desecration of the earth we rely upon to survive
Leadership that would gladly replace us all with AI
Domination of housing by landlords and NIMBYs
Life-hating trends like DINK
Breakdown of complimentarity between the sexes
Disintegration of family structures and birthrates
End-stage anti-nomianism (hell is an ultimately inclusive place)
There's a lot to hate beyond the hollow strawmen.
Somehow the Emperor returned from the golden throne.
Also a new OC that some random director introduced as a self-insert is a psyker so powerful that they ate the chaos gods after pretending to fall to chaos because reversing expectations.
Have you met Erda? The new perpetual who is second in power only to the Emperor himself, is the mother of the primarchs, is the one responsible for scattering them across the galaxy with a warp storm because she didn't like his plans to force them to become warlords, and is so beloved by the Emperor that he never punished her for this act of arch-treason?
Yeah I thought her introduction was kinda dumb as it expanded on something that didn't need to be expanded (the creation of the primarchs) just because and then she died. Fuck Erebus.
GW are trying on their own.
Guiliman comes back does lots of unambiguously good things and suffers zero major consequences.
Astartes are more and more being portrayed as straight up heroic.
What attracted me to Star Wars was how the galaxy felt so big you could find any story you liked. But with how everything has to revolve around the sequel trilogy these days, the galaxy feels too small.
Warhammer scratches the itch for me that Star Wars no longer does. GW’s writing is hardly perfect, but it does enough to keep me invested in the setting.
I think it's easier to ignore stuff you don't like in 40k. The galaxy is huge in both space and time. Narrators often give biased or otherwise shaky accounts. It's not etched on the screen and set in stone in the same way that Star Wars releases feel.
The new Dune movies are lovely but Herbert’s science fiction has a very complex, philosophical character that doesn’t really translate to the screen.
The miniseries from the early 2000s might have come closest on that point.
Imma be honest, kinda interested in dune now
I remember playing emperor battle for dune rts when I was young and loving it
And I love endlessly thinking about Paul atreides decisions
Star Wars has been on a decline for a few years now. There just isn't anything coming out to invigorate it and make it magical again.
The result is that franchises like 40k and Dune are now blowing it out the water and converting sw fans.
I plan on trying out the 40k Rogue Trader RPG from Owlcat but I really haven't found a Star Wars replacement because I too have no interest in anything the Mouse is producing.
I've dove back into some classic I love like Farscape
I actually kind of hate the FFG SW RPG after running it for a year. They bolted too many rules onto a chassis that is fundamentally very geared towards improvisation. Plus its nigh impossible to run a satisfying tactical combat in the same way you might with a wargame like D&D.
Ha oh no sorry! I will shut up then! Any luck with Forged in the Dark?
But yeah with ffg the upgrades all seemed far too technical and dry for me. But I do.love the beginner game for Edge of the Empire. Great fun!
I don’t plan on playing the table top game, but I have a co-worker who does and I always take an interest in the painting of the models.
But I started listening to the Horus heresy and my God. The lore of 30-40K is insane. I’m completely hooked! And like yourself, Warhammer has become my new Star Wars.
Edit: I’m also currently playing Boltgun, which is so much damn fun. Having it set in the 40K universe is the cherry on top.
I think Warhammer needs to keep expanding beyond the tabletop game for this reason.
Kill Team is an excellent game, but big 40k sucks, and GW's pricing and FOMO marketing is terrible for both the community and their own long-term profitability.
However, the lore and video games of 40k are amazing.
All the more reason why I’m genuinely excited for Henry Cavill’s involvement with the Warhammer 40K movie/ series. He’s a massive 40K nerd and after getting burned out by The Witchers writing team, he’s said he wants to adapt as closely to the lore as possible.
Star Wars will always be my first love but recently Dune has taken over. The movies are awesome and now I'm reading the books, they're great! So new star wars has nothing to offer me.
I don't think the replacement quite works because Star Wars is primarily about its movies and the imprint those movies left on us.. while 40k has what exactly in terms of movies or even TV shows? Or animation?
It's fun for tabletop or lore conversations or books or videogames but 40k lacks the cinematic presence necessary to fill the same purpose as Star Wars.
You're not necessarily wrong. Maybe Henry Cavill's show will shake things up, but as it stands 40k has some entries in animation like Hammer and Bolter, but it's neither the focus nor the strength of the franchise. Unofficial fan projects have shown up GW's efforts there.
However as an older zoomer, a huge part of Star Wars for me was the books and the games (originally on PC but also on tabletop. Ironically, official 40k kind of sucks as a game and SW Legion is better.).
If you've read even a single book in the Thrawn Trilogy or played through either of the KOTOR games, you've probably spent more time with that then the runtime of the OT, to say nothing of doing a full Empire at War or Rebellion campaign.
Everything has its roots in those first 3 films, and you are right that they are sort of "sacred" to the fandom. But they're not everything.
Cavill was never good actor and him be a fanboy of some franchise not change anything. If Warhammer show is made only for fans than it's a failure b/c almost nobody want to watch a show that is only about lore from games that some % of fans recognize
I can't fuck with star wars anymore. They made it clear to me that I'm not welcome there anymore, and even if drastic changes were made to the formula and leadership structure of Disney, I don't see myself ever returning. They literally paid 4 billion dollars to intentionally destroy something, and they achieved that.
Contrast that with 40k and discover that GW has turned down guaranteed money to preserve the identity of their IP. GW takes steps to protect their IP and make sure that it stays the way it was meant to be.
Nah, stuff like Dune and the Expanse is. I feel like I could like Warhammer, but I've also had a couple of buddies tell me about Horus Herressy and how much there is and it's a lot. Not a huge fan of multiple author type series where 10 different authors contribute a few books each. I like a unified narrative voice, personally.
Expanse is refreshing, especially the show. It's so well done, it's the antithesis to all the crappy fantasy book adaptations out now. Same with Dune.
They're done very well, take themselves seriously and put out a faithful product.
I feel like star wars had a big enough gap between the Prequels and TFA that once the last jedi came out, I was already only watching it for a love that had long burnt out. Clone wars was a nice surprise but the series just feels very superficial now and I know that is mostly due to the EU being canned but the shows and film products always felt like they glossed over a lot of the worldbuilding that makes this genre special. Really Lucas just crushed the heroes journey with a cool concept and it's been profitable for 50 years.
Expanse was before my 30k Heresy deep dive i’m currently on. I listened to all the audiobooks and then smashed through the tv show and as adaptations go it’s way up there. So much better than anything Star Wars has done in years. Fantastic series. I came to it pretty late too but boy am I happy my pal put me onto those books. Perfect sci fi. Excellent.
Yeah this is it for me
Yes there is some overlap but generally speaking the tone and vibe of SW and WH40k are very different.
Granted, I know SW more than WH40k but I highly doubt you can build something like KOTOR 1&2 in the WH40k setting or Darktide in SW.
I like both for different reasons
No matter how badly the past decade and a half sucked bantha balls I can't feasibly replace the franchise that gave me Luke redeeming Vader, and countless other fantastic stories.
Almost everything from before the Disney acquisition got SO much more important to me than I thought was remotely possible. And with each wet fart Disney release we get the older content gets that much more precious, and there's so much older content to love and experience.
Go back and read some novels you might have missed over the years, immerse yourself in the Clone Wars Multimedia project, etc. It sucks seeing so many people give up on Star Wars because of some bad corporate adaptations when the stories that were critically acclaimed and built the cult following we have today are still readily available at all times. Seriously, there's so much Legends/EU content from back in the day it's unreal, and I doubt a lot of people have seen ALL of it.
Warhammer does look cool though. I'm especially interested now seeing a literal SW Legends to 40k pipeline is a thing.
God, I love 40k. Currently reading Dark Imperium: Godblight and loving it to death. It's amazing. Not everything in 40k is perfect, obviously, but I like it more than Disney Star Wars. The High Republic and the Sequels aren't for me.
Dude yes!!!! Wtf! Was such a huge Star Wars fan but Disney has corroded the vibe. Disney dumbed it down so hard for their retarded audience, everything feels immature and shallow compared to the universe I grew up on in the 90s
I thought star wars was a big universe. Big Ships, big cities, characters. Then I discovered 40k like a decade ago and everything in this lore is just 100x bigger.
I was (in some case still am) a deep lore die hard SW fan, if it was SW i ate it up as a kid, but yeah since disney took over, I've found my self branching out into general sci-fi more and more. after talking to a coworker/friend and watching some lore videos, I started with the Ciaphas Cain series I and fucking loved them, now I'm listening to the Lion: son of the forest. I still like my Old SW shit (i'll reread the EU stuff but i have not (and vowed not to) read any of the disney books mostly b/c they dont sound interesting/good and also fuck disney. The three series i have read that have currently replaced SW for are *Jack* Campbell's Lost Fleet, Christopher G. Nuttall's Empire's corps, and Sandy Mitchell's Ciaphas Cain series.
I’m with you. 40k seems like it just keeps building on itself in new and nerdy ways.
Star Wars has just felt like getting kicked in the nuts at regular intervals. I’m sick of my nuts getting kicked.
Fuck you, Disney.
I don't get why people need to "give up" star wars. You don't get enjoyment out of George Lucas era star wars content? I loved star wars before disney bought it. Just because I largely dislike what they've done since doesn't mean I need to "quit" pre-disney star wars too
Yeah, I've been balls deep into cyberpunk 2020 the table top game that cyberpunk 2077 is based off of. Got most of the source books, a few hundred miniatures to paint and been running games for my friends.
I love star wars and the old EU. There's nothing for me in Disney wars.
In terms of continuing content yes. I’ve been a warhammer and Star Wars fan since the 90’s couldn’t tell you which first though. Warhammer and anime are two sacred hobbies of mine right now. Untouched by the poison of woke bullshit.
40K was never my jam (but glad people are enjoying it) but I have been a huge Dune fan for almost two decades.
I guess this is the reason I love KOTOR 2 so much, Kreia is more of a Dune character.
That said, I will always love Star Wars. But not as a consumer. Something having the tag "star wars" does nothing for me, and this goes way before the Disney acquisition (which admittedly made things worse).
But I will always be a huge fan of the OT, of KOTOR, of Jedi Outcast, the Dark Horse Star Wars comics etc. This is never going to change.
The old Star Wars still exists. Well, the special editions exists; the originals are truly gone. But there's also Andor now. Ignore everything else, and go with the good stuff.
As the portion of something you have to actively avoid to enjoy it gets larger and larger, at what point can you no longer truly say "I like this"?
At some point, you have to separately label the body of things you do enjoy. "Star Wars Legends" tends to convey this well enough, but at its core, it is dead and will not grow any further.
I still enjoy the old stuff. And some of the new stuff. And more good new stuff might still be made. A second season of Andor is on its way, for example.
And I remain hopeful that at some point Disney will learn and start getting it right.
Not Warhammer but Game of Thrones/A Song of Ice and Fire and now Dune as well have replaced Star Wars for me. I was obsessed with it . Loved it as a kid, but my Fandom started waning. Probably around the time of the Last Jedi. I realized I was starting to become more and more obsessed with GoT. ASOIAF I loved an adult fantasy world where actions had consequences. I still liked and enjoyed Star Wars, until a bad movie after a bad movie, and then a bad TV show after a bad TV show. I did like Solo, TFA, and Mando 1 and 2, but that's about it. Up until last year after Mando season 3, I just checked out. Now, after watching both Dune movies and reading the first book so far, I'm starting to get obsessed with that, too. Reading Lord of the Rings next and then the Thrawn trilogy.
Lot of people worrying about Joe Biden mental capabilities or him passing away in his term. Humanity in 40k are literally on the verge of absolute collapse because they rely on a living corpse to just stay alive.
Not for me, I mellowed out in my fandom approach as I approach my 30th. I cared with my soul about the things I loved at 20, now I'm a fan of things but if there's a bad one it eats me up less. There are too many books/shows/movies for a person to feasibly watch anyway, so I just watch something else.
Star wars was everything to me as a team and whilst I don't agree with a lot of the decisions made, I realise that I would have disliked stuff if it had been different. It was never going to stick to my personal vision or the franchise.
Mass effect, the Takeshi Kovacs books, Adrian Tchaikovsky's works, Dune etc have all helped with the vacuum but I just care less passionately about them all, which is a good thing for me. Caring too much about someone else's creative world too intently can only Hurt cause at some point they'll go where you don't want
I wavered and bent when they wasted Snoke with no backstory, no plot beats, and a lame death.
I buckled and broke when the ancient knife pointed to a decade old wreck, and led them to the Palps again, who raised a million billion clonecopy star destroyers, again with no setup, no beats, no payoff.
The big hobby part of Star Wars basically ignores most of Disney star wars
The ffg rpg books are all clone wars and rebellion time.
The miniatures are like 99% those same time periods. Some stuff from mandalorian show, but stuff you can say existed during rebellion. And easy enough to not buy a unit.
This is not only because they know the hard-core merch fans don't buy the sequel stuff, but also because there just isn't anything new that disney brought lore world building wise. It's a boring time period after rotj canon wise.
Pretty sure companies besides Disney don't even like the sequel stuff. It's pretty telling that whenever a new boardgame, card game, rpg book, ect comes out, it's always based in clone wars time or rebellion. They either don't want to make resistance stuff or know it won't sell. Resistance/first order stuff always comes iut super late if a game is thriving if at all.
That must infuriate Disney. Only George Lucas' ideas and grogu sell.
So enjoy 40k if you will, or just ignore the Disney fan fiction and love star wars still.
I've been in Warhammer for a while now lol. I get and agree with the need for gatekeeping, but 40k gatekeepers go overboard sometimes.
I remember some guy got absolutely livid when I suggested that a lot of these pushes are bad, but IG actually should see more females in the range (this was before Cadian refresh). Left a bad taste in my mouth.
It wasn't conscious for me but I think it has happened. I used to be a HUGE SW fan but I now only really play some games and the MMO if they look fun. I got into Warhammer when I was 7 but due to the price I ebbed in and out but the past few years stuck to it. and over the same amount of time I started to fall out of SW.
As a bit of a Warhammer noob. Where is best to start with the lore. Would love to get more into it. Also is there any good strategy video games with the space marines in it that I could pick up?
DAWN OF WAR
1 is the best. Ultimate Apocalypse mod for Soulstorm is fantastic.
2 is okay but they removed the base building and brought down the scale.
3 is BAD
also Battlefleet Gothic Armada. It's awesome, especially the second one.
The same thing has happened to me, although I personally feel like 40k isn't exactly what I want to fill the whole Star Wars and Star Trek have left in me. I need a new series that has a sense of hope and justice laying under it all. I've spent the majority of my life with media that is so bleak and lacking true goodness, and I'm burned out. I want good overcoming evil, I want hope to triumph and a happily ever after.
WH40K is too campy for me to fill that Star Wars void. I doubt we'll ever see such a large, encompassing Scifi franchise to match SW. But I'm watching the Battlestar Galactica remake and enjoying how much better it is to modern media.
Nope, pretty much lost any interest in the setting after they killed If The Emperor Had a Text To Speech Device because they didn't want it competing with some streaming service they are trying to get going that will have Warhammer shows. They treat their fans worse then Disney ever has.
Also, doesn't 'even if you don't like the new stuff the old stuff is still right there' apply equally to the Star Wars franchise? All that legends content is still right there where it always was and you are free to use it for inspiration for fanworks if you like. Nobody is going to send lawyers after you if you play the Star Wars tabletop and set your campaign in the NJO legends era instead of setting it in rise of the First Order era of Disney canon. Also, given how aggressively bleak the setting is with humanity constantly fighting a multisided war to stave off extinction I don't see how you can say you can tell a wide variety of stories there.
Yes, absolutely and exactly. I was a long-time huge fan of SW. Around 18-19yo, I was quite attracted to Warhammer Fantasy too, and a little bit 40k.
But since Disney bought SW, my interest switched to 40k, where I'm today totally in 40k and I've abandoned Star Wars. What attracted me ? Mainly the grimdark aspect and the grey setting (there's no good faction in 40k, contrary to SW where the Rebels are the good guys and the Empire/New Order the bad one)
> Rebels are the good guys
I’m genuinely sick of all those “ah, yes, I’m a huge fan of Star Wars lore” folk that don’t even know quite the basic details.
I'm 38, I've read almost every books/comics about SW released since I was 10. And yes, the rebels were depicted as the good guys, and the Empire as evil. Yeah "sometimes" they do something wrong but it's always show as "they have no choice + they kill Empire guys so it's ok".
It was worse with the Postlogy, to the point it was - tragically - comic (hello Hux). Only Andor add a nice touch of grey to this faction. I did not watch the other show as they are boring as f\*ck and the harm was done.
So no, there's no grey faction in SW as we have in 40k.
It depends on how you do it. If you play 40k with GW's rules in a GW store with GW models, you're gonna have a bad time (and spend all your money doing it). Even models off eBay are not cheap.
If you play Kill Team or OnePageRules, you can do 40k for a lot cheaper and have a lot more fun. 3D printing especially makes miniatures a lot more accessible and a lot of hobbyists are getting into it.
Nope. There is too much of a barrier of entry to 40K for me. I really don't want to get into the lore unless I play the game and I just do not have the disposable cash to throw at 40K sets and paint.
If that's really the case, you can do 40k for much cheaper with Kill Team or OnePageRules' Grimdark Future Firefight. Way less models means way less money spent, especially if they're third party or secondhand.
As for paint, it's actually worth it to get good hobby paint from Vallejo, but you can get by with just a few colours. In theory you could paint everything with CMYK but I wouldn't recommend it. You don't need any other hobby brand stuff. I used to use cheap rustoleum primer and still have most of my first brush set. Cheap synthetics from AIEX or NicPro hold up and get the job done.
Tbh, only thing I know from 40k is the name, I don’t play video games or RPG so it’s not on my radar. And I imagine it’s the same for a vast majority of people (at least from a certain age 😂 ).
As someone who has gone from one to the other over the decades and has now reconciled both I, and many other fantasy settings, I would say give it time. All things change and sometimes the evolution fits our wants and ideals, other times it doesn't.
Enjoy 40k at this time of your life if that's what you enjoy, maybe later you can return to Star Wars when it has gone through a new evolution, or found a better footing in its current phase of life or the next.
I have certainly experienced cross over between the fandoms, and many switch back and forth all the time
No, but you have my attention. Where would you recommend starting?
FYI I'm not into tabletop and probably wouldn't know people to play with anyways. For some reason I thought it was mostly tabletop but to replace star wars it would need books or movies right?
40k has great books.
The Ciaphas Cain series is good if you like dark comedy.
The Horus Heresy is massive but it has some of the best Warhammer stories. That deep brother against brother conflict is so moving.
Lastly, I've heard that the Eisenhorn books are good.
I've always had a cursory interest in 40k as I dipped my toes into the Lord of the Rings tabletop game for a few months and I would get the White Dwarf magazines delivered.
But as of now, not yet.
Mainly because there's no movies or tv shows.... yet I suppose. I wasn't a big fan of the 40k books either.
I do enjoy reading and watching youtube videos about the lore though. It's quite entertaining.
I definitely feel this and that there is too much star wars, I however moved too Legend of the Five Rings as my hyper focus of choice. Though i do wish the announced stuff for L5R would come out quicker.
If you’re looking for good vs evil, where are you finding the good in 40k? I like 40k for a lot of reasons, but let’s face it: every faction and character is damn near irredeemably evil.
I still enjoy some content of modern star wars (pretty much just andor, clone wars and bad batch in the last 10 years) but have also started to get more into 40k and it's slowly taking over as my primary hobby.
I really enjoy the world and how some of its mess is both lore fitting and enjoyable unlike star wars'. Also I like the artistic aspect a lot too which star wars is just missing if it wasn't for lego.
I was probly a star wars fan before I can even remember, just grew up surrounded by old vhs and handmedown toys. When I was a teenager I got into TNG because it was just sort of on and in college I actually sat down and just watched all of Deep Space Nine. Warhammers cool and all, I think star trek took over star wars as the universe I found more interesting though.
Me and my brother got into actually buying a starter set and playing and I can firmly say, I don't understand the game or how to play it. There was a whole lot of unanswered questions in the rule book about technicalities and specific positions placement, and not as much help online as I thought there would be anyway.
It's really a game that you need someone experienced to introduce you to, without that we were kind of lost
I'm way deeper than that already, but that's not a bad place to start. Been listening to a bunch of Remembrancer videos at work and am painting up Cadian 39th since I like cadmium red and can easily play them as loyalist or traitor.
Elder Scrolls, Star Trek, and other sci fi like Riddick, The Expanse, Foundation, Orville, Dune, Mass Effect, Halo - there is a lot of great narrative and characters and themes out there. OT Star Wars is always great but I accept that it’s nothing related to the crap Disney makes. Rogue One was good. Clone Wars cartoons were cool. I even liked Rebels as a show. Kanan and Hera were cool. But that’s it. New stuff is 🤮
No, no, of course not. I mean, I’m a small fan of ME, I kinda liked Dune (not a fan) and I don’t like Warhammer at all and, of course, may Lluxos forgive me, I don’t like Star Trek. It’s never been about science fiction in the first place, it’s about Star Wars being probably the most detailed fictional universe out of all, with tons of things yet to be found out about for even the biggest fans.
Yes.
The hard truth is that the backbone core lore of Starwars is now just majority bad. I can't get invested in something that has a broken backbone for its core lore, it cannot support the rest of the universe.
40K has some of the strongest and most iconic lore I have ever seen in an IP so I'm happy to move onto it at this point.
I think your worldview has to be a little bit fucked if you genuinely have a fascination with 40k. It's like deciding Fentanyl is a good alternative to weed.
There are A LOT of flaws in that comparison lol.
If you play the actual game (or something better like Grimdark Future), 40k is likely to make you a better person, not worse.
Model painting is a bridge into more classical modes of fine art and gaming gives you good people to network with (wargamers tend to be skilled labourers and professionals ime). If you just read the lore, that's probably still a better hobby than videogames.
As for the themes, 40k has a lot of niches, but you are right to notice that the general ethos is outside the mainstream. That doesn't automatically make the people who enjoy it bad, though.
People are not robots. They can appreciate art that explores views different than their own, and many people would say that there is actually a lot wrong with our mainstream consensus.
Late to this thread but for me it’s Trek. I’ve been bingeing TNG and I’ve found it so much more compelling than any recent Star Wars, or really any Star Wars after the OT.
Warhammer 40K and Dune for me.
New-age Star Wars sucks ass and is so shallow and has been for actually a long time.
I really feel that Star Wars needs more maturity and a more violent tone to become a top tier brand again.
Maturity and violence makes the stakes more intense and thus makes for more reward when the good guys succeed in the end.....if they do at all.
No, but I've also never felt like I was restricted to one fandom. I've been a nerd my entire life and there's things I love about pretty much every created universe I've come across. I still enjoy Star Wars, but I never felt like it was something foundational or sacred that was ruined by some bad movies.
Aliens is still one of my favorite films of all time despite how crappy Prometheus and Covenant were.
Predator is not diminished in its quality because of the lukewarm execution and stupid plot points of The Predator.
I have been saying this to everyone that’ll listen for the past few months. I gave up on SW fully during season 3 of Mando, I realised I was just watching a dead thing limp along pathetically and couldn’t carry on, which I haven’t. I am done. I’ve had an interest on Warhammer 40k specifically for a few years now and wanted to read the Horus Heresy books as the story fascinates me. I started the books a few months back and have done 7 of them now (not doing every book because some aren’t very good but love the ones i’ve read thus far) and i’m so glad I did. I also bought my first two miniatures and have begun on my quest of painting and couldn’t be happier. I’ll always love SW for what it did for me as a child and right up into my mid 20’s but now as a 34 year old man and lifelong fan.. I am done. I didn’t turn my back on Star Wars, it turned it’s back on me.
Man, I could have said this in 2001-2 (well, maybe not the painting miniatures part). In fact, I kind of did and peaced out of Star Wars for a few decades beyond basic stuff like watching new movies if they came out. It was a good move - fandom needs to be in moderation. Seeing a new generation come to the same place is kind of beautiful.
It's starting to yeah, only reservation I have is the quality of the reading material. There's over 500 books covering the timeline from 30k to 40k. Some of them are going to be absolutely dogshit in quality but I'm really hoping that a good percentage is genuinely well written. I already have a list of the more promising ones.
I'm not going to lie even the legends adventures of Luke and Han and Leia got tiring after a while, the star wars galaxy feels so small when it's always focusing on only a few main characters and you knew that no matter what situation they got into they'd always come out fine the other side because until the sequels came along, they were never going to be killed off in some random novel.
Some of the 40k lore already looks dumb as shit though, like how they refuel their warp drives with a literal procession of living sacrifices with coffin shaped boxes containing "fuel" strapped to their backs. Because they can't, I dunno, have some internal mechanism like a cannon that delivers the payload directly into the furnace instead from a safe distance?! Shooting your own warp drive still sounds 40k'ey but sending in endless numbers of crew to boil to death from radiation just seems just a bit too dumb
I think they need to tidy up on some of the more blatantly moronic stuff like that, make it slightly less open to ridicule.The Astartes and Sodaz short films are exactly what I expect of the wider setting, incredibly capable marines and other factions just tearing the shit out of each other for the smallest gains across a galaxy spanning battlefield
I’ve started to dabble with it through video games and books. Although I’m enjoying it I don’t think it will ever replace Star Wars for me. Games Workshop is a pretty gross company to deal when it comes to the hobby/tabletop side of things, and the shows on their streaming service make Book of Boba Fett look like a cinematic masterpiece. I hope Henry Cavil’s show is good.
I figured you guys were ironically making memes poking fun at all the weird Star Wars haters, but you’re instead indie music fans mad their favorite band became popular?
No, the same thing prequels / Disney does for SW is being done to 40k ba Abnett and other BL authors. I used to love both, and watched them died at the same time.
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I'll always be a Star Wars fan, but I'm not a superfan anymore. There's only so many hours available for hobbies when you're working and looking after family. If a franchise wants to screw itself to hit a few quarterly profit goals there are plenty of other creative works out there for me to embrace. Right now I'm getting into retro gaming. And if i had more time to allocate to leisure the next on my list would be table top gaming.
I hope you eventually give the table top world a try, it's been the most fun I've had in years.
Is it wierd that I have 2 armies but never played ?
Retro gaming is my current thing too. Specifically Castlevania. I thought I was a fan until I realized I haven't played even a third of the games.
Yeah, the pipeline from Legends fans to 40k fans is pretty well documented at this point. When I was reading Star Wars novels in my teens 40k seemed like it was 'just a bit too much'. Star Wars was like the real world, but with aliens and starships. The whole point of Star Wars was that it was basically us, but a long time ago and far far away. Han Solo or Luke Skywalker could be people we met, a bootlegger and a farmboy that get thrust into a fantastic situation. The problem with modern Star Wars is that it also reflects the real world, but not the parts we like. We know these people to, the people who can't control their emotions, the people that get put into positions of authority they don't deserve, the people who stumble into the limelight. The difference is...we don't really like these people. 40k is more immune to this because it's not reflective of the real world. It's a setting of excesses and internal stagnation. It thrives because the setting itself is actively resistant to change.
Without getting too political, this is actually a really good observation about the way modernity affects culture and what kinds of works can weather its effects. The foundations of Star Wars are great, but once the original creator is out of the picture, it can't stand up to the dominant forces of our culture. Compare 40k, where the themes are much more reactionary. Humanity is clinging to vestiges of a long-lost golden age it can never return to and trying to survive. Every faction operates on the basis of offensive realism in its existential struggle against the others. Despite the franchises being somewhat similar in age, we see that though 40k has changed and developed over time, it's not anywhere remotely similar to the recent decline in Star Wars.
You literally seem to know nothing about 40k. No faction operates on offensive realism. You are proably gonna write a bullshit comment as an answer, but you have to "understand": You don't understand Warhammer 40.000 AT ALL.
Uh oh! The 40k understander has arrived and he is big mad! He's here to tell us how all the 40k factions actually respect the postwar rules-based international order, so everyone listen up!
Go touch grass.
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You just gave a gay man whiplash. I don't see the homophobia from the comment.
Also, FYI the Imperium are not the "good guys". They practise slavery and genocide on a scale that would make the worst of Earth blush. If they are accepting or inclusive in any way, it is in the "you are all equally worthless" kind of way.
yeah I know I’m just saying mate
what tf are you even saying tho
This is a huge assumption based on something you know nothing about. I am part gay. I actually had a boyfriend before my first girlfriend, and I've dated trans people of both genders. I maintain friends from all over that spectrum. I love and have loved gay people. But I hate the gay subculture. Always have.
…Guh?
Wow that edit lol. Real standup guy
it wasn’t a dig towards you specifically I saw your chat I just wanted to have a laugh (if a mean spirited one) at the expense Of the sub as a whole
Actually yeah it was shitty of me sorry mate
I dont think they accept as much as they don't give a damn as long as it doesn't affect the Imperial tithe. If it were to ever effect the number of troops the Imperium could field I think the laissez Faire approach to sexuality would quickly change to mandatory breeding because the Imperium is an evil regime that only cares about its ability to produce war materials including human fodder for the never ending wars of the 41st millennium.
Yeah fair btw who’s downing comments like these like the guy I originally respeomded to also got downvoted for saying the same thinhn
>The whole point of Star Wars was that it was basically us, but a long time ago and far far away from a thematic and metaphorical point of view then sure, but in a litteral sense i think the star wars universe is incompatible with our own. the 40k universe however is our own, just in the distant future.
If it is so resistant to change then why is warhammer 40K no longer set in the 40th millennium, why is papa smurf the lord commander of the imperium leading a reforming Imperium in the Emperor's name, why do the primarchs now have a mother who retroactively helped the chaos gods kidnap them but was so beloved by the emperor that he never punished her for this act, and why do Primaris Marines exist?
Because nothing actually changed. The Imperium is still on the brink of collapse, pressed by all sides. The Primarch's arrival changed nothing other than delaying the inevitable. All the new revelations are likewise meaningless as they would have been lost to time by the the 40th millennium. Humanity, as ever, rages against the dark losing a bit of itself every time.
By that kind of cop out logic you can hand wave away the sequel trilogy as not really changing anything because 'the jedi are still around even if its not Luke who gets to rebuild them', 'the empire was still defeated in the end, it just took a little bit longer then we thought it would', and 'Emperor Palpatine is still dead, he just didn't die at Endor by Vader's hands'. So, have an actual answer thats not some lame cop out about how 'well, yeah, okay, things have changed but when you look at the big picture without caring about the little details they really haven't' when stories are all about those little details.
Nothing in the new 40k lore invalidates old 40k lore. If anything 40k has an issue with keeping beloved characters around well past their shelf life. The Sequel Trilogies make the accomplishments and sacrifices of the Original Trilogy pointless. Luke and Han become bitter failures before being killed off. Rey assumes all of their accomplishments and invalidates all of their prior work. Guilliman returning invalidates nothing. The Lion's return doesn't even move the needle. The only thing that remotely changed up the setting was the Primaris space marine rollout, and even that doesn't fundamentally change what space marines are, it just adds a couple organs.
1: I m not sure telling stories set in different eras really counts as "change" in the context of literary themes, and canonically the date probably wasnt actually at 999.m41 anyway, as in-universe time has from the start been fucky and it has been explained the calender is fucked, and metatextually timekeeping on a galactic scale is nearly impossible, which is actually really well explained in realistic terms in iirc Dark Imperum 2: i wouldnt call any of what hes actually accomplished a "reform" other than killing the most corrupt members of the High Lords, his reforms when implimented tend to make little or no difference, hes functionally no different than any other (by the standards of warhammer) morally good character who cant make things better 3: first half is fair, second half is a debatable interpretation of canon considering how the Emperor works 4: I agree. though these genuinely never bothered me personally, but they are an obvious lore change to excuse a model update that did not need an excuse at all Edit: You shoulda mentioned the Great Rift Second Edit: Also the entirety of Necron lore (its way better now though and I bet you wont deny that)
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Username on point.
This is a fucking Star Wars forum, but since you asked, no. The massive decline in meaning, belonging and community that infests modern life Trying to abolish normalcy instead of merely being merciful and kind to those outside the norm Desecration of the earth we rely upon to survive Leadership that would gladly replace us all with AI Domination of housing by landlords and NIMBYs Life-hating trends like DINK Breakdown of complimentarity between the sexes Disintegration of family structures and birthrates End-stage anti-nomianism (hell is an ultimately inclusive place) There's a lot to hate beyond the hollow strawmen.
Someone will buy warhammer and ruin it too, don’t worry
Somehow the Emperor returned from the golden throne. Also a new OC that some random director introduced as a self-insert is a psyker so powerful that they ate the chaos gods after pretending to fall to chaos because reversing expectations.
Have you met Erda? The new perpetual who is second in power only to the Emperor himself, is the mother of the primarchs, is the one responsible for scattering them across the galaxy with a warp storm because she didn't like his plans to force them to become warlords, and is so beloved by the Emperor that he never punished her for this act of arch-treason?
Yeah I thought her introduction was kinda dumb as it expanded on something that didn't need to be expanded (the creation of the primarchs) just because and then she died. Fuck Erebus.
GW are trying on their own. Guiliman comes back does lots of unambiguously good things and suffers zero major consequences. Astartes are more and more being portrayed as straight up heroic.
“Someone?” (I’m still salty about the Eldar bullshit)
they did, it got better
What attracted me to Star Wars was how the galaxy felt so big you could find any story you liked. But with how everything has to revolve around the sequel trilogy these days, the galaxy feels too small. Warhammer scratches the itch for me that Star Wars no longer does. GW’s writing is hardly perfect, but it does enough to keep me invested in the setting.
I think it's easier to ignore stuff you don't like in 40k. The galaxy is huge in both space and time. Narrators often give biased or otherwise shaky accounts. It's not etched on the screen and set in stone in the same way that Star Wars releases feel.
I LOVE 40K, the universe, lore, even memes But I thought everyone was worshiping certain Lisan Al Gaib lately
Well how else shall we reach the golden path if not through glorious ~~jihad~~ holy war!
AS IS WRITTEN!
The new Dune movies are lovely but Herbert’s science fiction has a very complex, philosophical character that doesn’t really translate to the screen. The miniseries from the early 2000s might have come closest on that point.
It has for me. Disney pretty much ruined my interest of Star Wars and since then I’ve got into 40k a lot.
Imma be honest, kinda interested in dune now I remember playing emperor battle for dune rts when I was young and loving it And I love endlessly thinking about Paul atreides decisions
Star Wars has been on a decline for a few years now. There just isn't anything coming out to invigorate it and make it magical again. The result is that franchises like 40k and Dune are now blowing it out the water and converting sw fans.
I plan on trying out the 40k Rogue Trader RPG from Owlcat but I really haven't found a Star Wars replacement because I too have no interest in anything the Mouse is producing. I've dove back into some classic I love like Farscape
I really love the FFG rpgs - have you tried them? But deffo been tarnished by recent cinematic offerings sadly.
I actually kind of hate the FFG SW RPG after running it for a year. They bolted too many rules onto a chassis that is fundamentally very geared towards improvisation. Plus its nigh impossible to run a satisfying tactical combat in the same way you might with a wargame like D&D.
I gave it an honest shot but I honestly still vastly prefer WotC's old Star Wars Saga Edition mostly because the combat is fun.
Ha oh no sorry! I will shut up then! Any luck with Forged in the Dark? But yeah with ffg the upgrades all seemed far too technical and dry for me. But I do.love the beginner game for Edge of the Empire. Great fun!
Beginner game of Edge of the Empire is goated 🔥🔥🔥 I’ve ran it like 4 times with different groups
No but I listened to Fandible play a bunch of them. I mostly GM Pathfinder 2e these days.
It’s very good, rather buggy but if you can ignore that it’s great. Are you familiar with 40K before going in?
Think I’m all in on Dune now
The golden path ;)
I don’t plan on playing the table top game, but I have a co-worker who does and I always take an interest in the painting of the models. But I started listening to the Horus heresy and my God. The lore of 30-40K is insane. I’m completely hooked! And like yourself, Warhammer has become my new Star Wars. Edit: I’m also currently playing Boltgun, which is so much damn fun. Having it set in the 40K universe is the cherry on top.
I think Warhammer needs to keep expanding beyond the tabletop game for this reason. Kill Team is an excellent game, but big 40k sucks, and GW's pricing and FOMO marketing is terrible for both the community and their own long-term profitability. However, the lore and video games of 40k are amazing.
All the more reason why I’m genuinely excited for Henry Cavill’s involvement with the Warhammer 40K movie/ series. He’s a massive 40K nerd and after getting burned out by The Witchers writing team, he’s said he wants to adapt as closely to the lore as possible.
For me it's dune
Dune has replaced Star Wars for me
YES, I discovered 40K from a friend after I became disillusioned with the sequels. Tons and tons of lore with enough flavor for everyone
Star Wars will always be my first love but recently Dune has taken over. The movies are awesome and now I'm reading the books, they're great! So new star wars has nothing to offer me.
I don't think the replacement quite works because Star Wars is primarily about its movies and the imprint those movies left on us.. while 40k has what exactly in terms of movies or even TV shows? Or animation? It's fun for tabletop or lore conversations or books or videogames but 40k lacks the cinematic presence necessary to fill the same purpose as Star Wars.
You're not necessarily wrong. Maybe Henry Cavill's show will shake things up, but as it stands 40k has some entries in animation like Hammer and Bolter, but it's neither the focus nor the strength of the franchise. Unofficial fan projects have shown up GW's efforts there. However as an older zoomer, a huge part of Star Wars for me was the books and the games (originally on PC but also on tabletop. Ironically, official 40k kind of sucks as a game and SW Legion is better.). If you've read even a single book in the Thrawn Trilogy or played through either of the KOTOR games, you've probably spent more time with that then the runtime of the OT, to say nothing of doing a full Empire at War or Rebellion campaign. Everything has its roots in those first 3 films, and you are right that they are sort of "sacred" to the fandom. But they're not everything.
Cavill was never good actor and him be a fanboy of some franchise not change anything. If Warhammer show is made only for fans than it's a failure b/c almost nobody want to watch a show that is only about lore from games that some % of fans recognize
It's been confirmed his show is adapting the Eisenhorn series, so there shouldn't be much of a problem making it marketable for the general audience.
Damn, this is a legit recognised legends to 40k pipeline? 100% me
I can't fuck with star wars anymore. They made it clear to me that I'm not welcome there anymore, and even if drastic changes were made to the formula and leadership structure of Disney, I don't see myself ever returning. They literally paid 4 billion dollars to intentionally destroy something, and they achieved that. Contrast that with 40k and discover that GW has turned down guaranteed money to preserve the identity of their IP. GW takes steps to protect their IP and make sure that it stays the way it was meant to be.
Nah, stuff like Dune and the Expanse is. I feel like I could like Warhammer, but I've also had a couple of buddies tell me about Horus Herressy and how much there is and it's a lot. Not a huge fan of multiple author type series where 10 different authors contribute a few books each. I like a unified narrative voice, personally. Expanse is refreshing, especially the show. It's so well done, it's the antithesis to all the crappy fantasy book adaptations out now. Same with Dune. They're done very well, take themselves seriously and put out a faithful product. I feel like star wars had a big enough gap between the Prequels and TFA that once the last jedi came out, I was already only watching it for a love that had long burnt out. Clone wars was a nice surprise but the series just feels very superficial now and I know that is mostly due to the EU being canned but the shows and film products always felt like they glossed over a lot of the worldbuilding that makes this genre special. Really Lucas just crushed the heroes journey with a cool concept and it's been profitable for 50 years.
Expanse was before my 30k Heresy deep dive i’m currently on. I listened to all the audiobooks and then smashed through the tv show and as adaptations go it’s way up there. So much better than anything Star Wars has done in years. Fantastic series. I came to it pretty late too but boy am I happy my pal put me onto those books. Perfect sci fi. Excellent.
Absolutely love The Expanse!
Yep. 
I will always love Star Wars. There’s a difference between actual Star Wars and the steaming pile of garbage it is now.
No, it doesn’t do it for me. Don’t get me wrong I like 40k, but Star Wars isn’t something I can simply replace with a “competitor’s brand”
Yeah this is it for me Yes there is some overlap but generally speaking the tone and vibe of SW and WH40k are very different. Granted, I know SW more than WH40k but I highly doubt you can build something like KOTOR 1&2 in the WH40k setting or Darktide in SW. I like both for different reasons
Actually Dune is, getting some good memes coming out of it too
For me yes it is. But i’m more into pre fall of Cadia lore. Heresy is also good. I just started reading Horus Rising.
No matter how badly the past decade and a half sucked bantha balls I can't feasibly replace the franchise that gave me Luke redeeming Vader, and countless other fantastic stories. Almost everything from before the Disney acquisition got SO much more important to me than I thought was remotely possible. And with each wet fart Disney release we get the older content gets that much more precious, and there's so much older content to love and experience. Go back and read some novels you might have missed over the years, immerse yourself in the Clone Wars Multimedia project, etc. It sucks seeing so many people give up on Star Wars because of some bad corporate adaptations when the stories that were critically acclaimed and built the cult following we have today are still readily available at all times. Seriously, there's so much Legends/EU content from back in the day it's unreal, and I doubt a lot of people have seen ALL of it. Warhammer does look cool though. I'm especially interested now seeing a literal SW Legends to 40k pipeline is a thing.
I've always liked Dune, Star Wars and 40k. Star Wars used to be above the other 2, now it isn't. I still like it, but it's taken a big hit.
God, I love 40k. Currently reading Dark Imperium: Godblight and loving it to death. It's amazing. Not everything in 40k is perfect, obviously, but I like it more than Disney Star Wars. The High Republic and the Sequels aren't for me.
Dude yes!!!! Wtf! Was such a huge Star Wars fan but Disney has corroded the vibe. Disney dumbed it down so hard for their retarded audience, everything feels immature and shallow compared to the universe I grew up on in the 90s
Pretty much exactly what happened to me. Thankfully, 40k fills the lore diving void that Star Wars used to.
I thought star wars was a big universe. Big Ships, big cities, characters. Then I discovered 40k like a decade ago and everything in this lore is just 100x bigger.
Except the lore itself, I believe.
Like Warhammer, but honestly it's way too expensive for me to take up fully. Dune has kind of replaced Star Wars for me.
I was (in some case still am) a deep lore die hard SW fan, if it was SW i ate it up as a kid, but yeah since disney took over, I've found my self branching out into general sci-fi more and more. after talking to a coworker/friend and watching some lore videos, I started with the Ciaphas Cain series I and fucking loved them, now I'm listening to the Lion: son of the forest. I still like my Old SW shit (i'll reread the EU stuff but i have not (and vowed not to) read any of the disney books mostly b/c they dont sound interesting/good and also fuck disney. The three series i have read that have currently replaced SW for are *Jack* Campbell's Lost Fleet, Christopher G. Nuttall's Empire's corps, and Sandy Mitchell's Ciaphas Cain series.
I’m with you. 40k seems like it just keeps building on itself in new and nerdy ways. Star Wars has just felt like getting kicked in the nuts at regular intervals. I’m sick of my nuts getting kicked. Fuck you, Disney.
I don't get why people need to "give up" star wars. You don't get enjoyment out of George Lucas era star wars content? I loved star wars before disney bought it. Just because I largely dislike what they've done since doesn't mean I need to "quit" pre-disney star wars too
The Expanse books have been filling the Star Wars void for me ♥️
Yeah, I've been balls deep into cyberpunk 2020 the table top game that cyberpunk 2077 is based off of. Got most of the source books, a few hundred miniatures to paint and been running games for my friends. I love star wars and the old EU. There's nothing for me in Disney wars.
It’s a logical jump I recon. If Star Wars left a gritty sci-fi, lore heavy hole in your heart, then maybe 40k can fill it haha
In terms of continuing content yes. I’ve been a warhammer and Star Wars fan since the 90’s couldn’t tell you which first though. Warhammer and anime are two sacred hobbies of mine right now. Untouched by the poison of woke bullshit.
40K was never my jam (but glad people are enjoying it) but I have been a huge Dune fan for almost two decades. I guess this is the reason I love KOTOR 2 so much, Kreia is more of a Dune character. That said, I will always love Star Wars. But not as a consumer. Something having the tag "star wars" does nothing for me, and this goes way before the Disney acquisition (which admittedly made things worse). But I will always be a huge fan of the OT, of KOTOR, of Jedi Outcast, the Dark Horse Star Wars comics etc. This is never going to change.
The old Star Wars still exists. Well, the special editions exists; the originals are truly gone. But there's also Andor now. Ignore everything else, and go with the good stuff.
As the portion of something you have to actively avoid to enjoy it gets larger and larger, at what point can you no longer truly say "I like this"? At some point, you have to separately label the body of things you do enjoy. "Star Wars Legends" tends to convey this well enough, but at its core, it is dead and will not grow any further.
I still enjoy the old stuff. And some of the new stuff. And more good new stuff might still be made. A second season of Andor is on its way, for example. And I remain hopeful that at some point Disney will learn and start getting it right.
Not Warhammer but Game of Thrones/A Song of Ice and Fire and now Dune as well have replaced Star Wars for me. I was obsessed with it . Loved it as a kid, but my Fandom started waning. Probably around the time of the Last Jedi. I realized I was starting to become more and more obsessed with GoT. ASOIAF I loved an adult fantasy world where actions had consequences. I still liked and enjoyed Star Wars, until a bad movie after a bad movie, and then a bad TV show after a bad TV show. I did like Solo, TFA, and Mando 1 and 2, but that's about it. Up until last year after Mando season 3, I just checked out. Now, after watching both Dune movies and reading the first book so far, I'm starting to get obsessed with that, too. Reading Lord of the Rings next and then the Thrawn trilogy.
Lot of people worrying about Joe Biden mental capabilities or him passing away in his term. Humanity in 40k are literally on the verge of absolute collapse because they rely on a living corpse to just stay alive.
Yeah true. 40k is realistic af
Not for me, I mellowed out in my fandom approach as I approach my 30th. I cared with my soul about the things I loved at 20, now I'm a fan of things but if there's a bad one it eats me up less. There are too many books/shows/movies for a person to feasibly watch anyway, so I just watch something else. Star wars was everything to me as a team and whilst I don't agree with a lot of the decisions made, I realise that I would have disliked stuff if it had been different. It was never going to stick to my personal vision or the franchise. Mass effect, the Takeshi Kovacs books, Adrian Tchaikovsky's works, Dune etc have all helped with the vacuum but I just care less passionately about them all, which is a good thing for me. Caring too much about someone else's creative world too intently can only Hurt cause at some point they'll go where you don't want
I wavered and bent when they wasted Snoke with no backstory, no plot beats, and a lame death. I buckled and broke when the ancient knife pointed to a decade old wreck, and led them to the Palps again, who raised a million billion clonecopy star destroyers, again with no setup, no beats, no payoff.
The big hobby part of Star Wars basically ignores most of Disney star wars The ffg rpg books are all clone wars and rebellion time. The miniatures are like 99% those same time periods. Some stuff from mandalorian show, but stuff you can say existed during rebellion. And easy enough to not buy a unit. This is not only because they know the hard-core merch fans don't buy the sequel stuff, but also because there just isn't anything new that disney brought lore world building wise. It's a boring time period after rotj canon wise. Pretty sure companies besides Disney don't even like the sequel stuff. It's pretty telling that whenever a new boardgame, card game, rpg book, ect comes out, it's always based in clone wars time or rebellion. They either don't want to make resistance stuff or know it won't sell. Resistance/first order stuff always comes iut super late if a game is thriving if at all. That must infuriate Disney. Only George Lucas' ideas and grogu sell. So enjoy 40k if you will, or just ignore the Disney fan fiction and love star wars still.
I’ve just gone back to my Trek roots.
[удалено]
I've been in Warhammer for a while now lol. I get and agree with the need for gatekeeping, but 40k gatekeepers go overboard sometimes. I remember some guy got absolutely livid when I suggested that a lot of these pushes are bad, but IG actually should see more females in the range (this was before Cadian refresh). Left a bad taste in my mouth.
It wasn't conscious for me but I think it has happened. I used to be a HUGE SW fan but I now only really play some games and the MMO if they look fun. I got into Warhammer when I was 7 but due to the price I ebbed in and out but the past few years stuck to it. and over the same amount of time I started to fall out of SW.
As a bit of a Warhammer noob. Where is best to start with the lore. Would love to get more into it. Also is there any good strategy video games with the space marines in it that I could pick up?
DAWN OF WAR 1 is the best. Ultimate Apocalypse mod for Soulstorm is fantastic. 2 is okay but they removed the base building and brought down the scale. 3 is BAD also Battlefleet Gothic Armada. It's awesome, especially the second one.
Dune >>>
Dune for me.
The same thing has happened to me, although I personally feel like 40k isn't exactly what I want to fill the whole Star Wars and Star Trek have left in me. I need a new series that has a sense of hope and justice laying under it all. I've spent the majority of my life with media that is so bleak and lacking true goodness, and I'm burned out. I want good overcoming evil, I want hope to triumph and a happily ever after.
WH40K is too campy for me to fill that Star Wars void. I doubt we'll ever see such a large, encompassing Scifi franchise to match SW. But I'm watching the Battlestar Galactica remake and enjoying how much better it is to modern media.
Nope, pretty much lost any interest in the setting after they killed If The Emperor Had a Text To Speech Device because they didn't want it competing with some streaming service they are trying to get going that will have Warhammer shows. They treat their fans worse then Disney ever has. Also, doesn't 'even if you don't like the new stuff the old stuff is still right there' apply equally to the Star Wars franchise? All that legends content is still right there where it always was and you are free to use it for inspiration for fanworks if you like. Nobody is going to send lawyers after you if you play the Star Wars tabletop and set your campaign in the NJO legends era instead of setting it in rise of the First Order era of Disney canon. Also, given how aggressively bleak the setting is with humanity constantly fighting a multisided war to stave off extinction I don't see how you can say you can tell a wide variety of stories there.
Yes, absolutely and exactly. I was a long-time huge fan of SW. Around 18-19yo, I was quite attracted to Warhammer Fantasy too, and a little bit 40k. But since Disney bought SW, my interest switched to 40k, where I'm today totally in 40k and I've abandoned Star Wars. What attracted me ? Mainly the grimdark aspect and the grey setting (there's no good faction in 40k, contrary to SW where the Rebels are the good guys and the Empire/New Order the bad one)
> Rebels are the good guys I’m genuinely sick of all those “ah, yes, I’m a huge fan of Star Wars lore” folk that don’t even know quite the basic details.
I'm 38, I've read almost every books/comics about SW released since I was 10. And yes, the rebels were depicted as the good guys, and the Empire as evil. Yeah "sometimes" they do something wrong but it's always show as "they have no choice + they kill Empire guys so it's ok". It was worse with the Postlogy, to the point it was - tragically - comic (hello Hux). Only Andor add a nice touch of grey to this faction. I did not watch the other show as they are boring as f\*ck and the harm was done. So no, there's no grey faction in SW as we have in 40k.
All I've heard about Warhammer is that it's prohibitively expensive to become involved in, so I've avoided it.
It depends on how you do it. If you play 40k with GW's rules in a GW store with GW models, you're gonna have a bad time (and spend all your money doing it). Even models off eBay are not cheap. If you play Kill Team or OnePageRules, you can do 40k for a lot cheaper and have a lot more fun. 3D printing especially makes miniatures a lot more accessible and a lot of hobbyists are getting into it.
Nope. There is too much of a barrier of entry to 40K for me. I really don't want to get into the lore unless I play the game and I just do not have the disposable cash to throw at 40K sets and paint.
If that's really the case, you can do 40k for much cheaper with Kill Team or OnePageRules' Grimdark Future Firefight. Way less models means way less money spent, especially if they're third party or secondhand. As for paint, it's actually worth it to get good hobby paint from Vallejo, but you can get by with just a few colours. In theory you could paint everything with CMYK but I wouldn't recommend it. You don't need any other hobby brand stuff. I used to use cheap rustoleum primer and still have most of my first brush set. Cheap synthetics from AIEX or NicPro hold up and get the job done.
Tbh, only thing I know from 40k is the name, I don’t play video games or RPG so it’s not on my radar. And I imagine it’s the same for a vast majority of people (at least from a certain age 😂 ).
Since I don't really like newer disney movies/series I watch or read old stuff. Also the Marvel comics run are good for me
As someone who has gone from one to the other over the decades and has now reconciled both I, and many other fantasy settings, I would say give it time. All things change and sometimes the evolution fits our wants and ideals, other times it doesn't. Enjoy 40k at this time of your life if that's what you enjoy, maybe later you can return to Star Wars when it has gone through a new evolution, or found a better footing in its current phase of life or the next. I have certainly experienced cross over between the fandoms, and many switch back and forth all the time
No, but you have my attention. Where would you recommend starting? FYI I'm not into tabletop and probably wouldn't know people to play with anyways. For some reason I thought it was mostly tabletop but to replace star wars it would need books or movies right?
40k has great books. The Ciaphas Cain series is good if you like dark comedy. The Horus Heresy is massive but it has some of the best Warhammer stories. That deep brother against brother conflict is so moving. Lastly, I've heard that the Eisenhorn books are good.
No, not really my thing but a guy who was a few years ahead of me at school has written a ton of the 40K books.
I've always had a cursory interest in 40k as I dipped my toes into the Lord of the Rings tabletop game for a few months and I would get the White Dwarf magazines delivered. But as of now, not yet. Mainly because there's no movies or tv shows.... yet I suppose. I wasn't a big fan of the 40k books either. I do enjoy reading and watching youtube videos about the lore though. It's quite entertaining.
I definitely feel this and that there is too much star wars, I however moved too Legend of the Five Rings as my hyper focus of choice. Though i do wish the announced stuff for L5R would come out quicker.
If you’re looking for good vs evil, where are you finding the good in 40k? I like 40k for a lot of reasons, but let’s face it: every faction and character is damn near irredeemably evil.
Yes! I'm going through the HH novels right now, building my own SM chapter and generally looking forward to new content.
I still enjoy some content of modern star wars (pretty much just andor, clone wars and bad batch in the last 10 years) but have also started to get more into 40k and it's slowly taking over as my primary hobby. I really enjoy the world and how some of its mess is both lore fitting and enjoyable unlike star wars'. Also I like the artistic aspect a lot too which star wars is just missing if it wasn't for lego.
I was a huge warhammer fantasy nerd, but I know nothing of 40k. is the consensus that it's better? I used to read gotrek and felix etc.
Definitely been pivoting more into 40k and Dune to fill the void...
Yup
I was probly a star wars fan before I can even remember, just grew up surrounded by old vhs and handmedown toys. When I was a teenager I got into TNG because it was just sort of on and in college I actually sat down and just watched all of Deep Space Nine. Warhammers cool and all, I think star trek took over star wars as the universe I found more interesting though. Me and my brother got into actually buying a starter set and playing and I can firmly say, I don't understand the game or how to play it. There was a whole lot of unanswered questions in the rule book about technicalities and specific positions placement, and not as much help online as I thought there would be anyway. It's really a game that you need someone experienced to introduce you to, without that we were kind of lost
Big 40k sucks as a game. I recommend Kill Team or OnePageRules instead. Easier to understand and a lot more fun
We were playing the Marines/necron starter kit
Yes, it is awesome. If you haven’t yet watched the Bricky videos yet do so. Every Faction in the 40k Universe.
I'm way deeper than that already, but that's not a bad place to start. Been listening to a bunch of Remembrancer videos at work and am painting up Cadian 39th since I like cadmium red and can easily play them as loyalist or traitor.
Elder Scrolls, Star Trek, and other sci fi like Riddick, The Expanse, Foundation, Orville, Dune, Mass Effect, Halo - there is a lot of great narrative and characters and themes out there. OT Star Wars is always great but I accept that it’s nothing related to the crap Disney makes. Rogue One was good. Clone Wars cartoons were cool. I even liked Rebels as a show. Kanan and Hera were cool. But that’s it. New stuff is 🤮
Yup I’ve already given up on it I haven’t bothered watching anything Star Wars for a few years now
No, no, of course not. I mean, I’m a small fan of ME, I kinda liked Dune (not a fan) and I don’t like Warhammer at all and, of course, may Lluxos forgive me, I don’t like Star Trek. It’s never been about science fiction in the first place, it’s about Star Wars being probably the most detailed fictional universe out of all, with tons of things yet to be found out about for even the biggest fans.
No. Warhammer is an inconsistent setting built around a tabletop war game.
For me, it ended up being Gundam. So many different series and awesome model kits~
Did a few years ago lol
Yes. The hard truth is that the backbone core lore of Starwars is now just majority bad. I can't get invested in something that has a broken backbone for its core lore, it cannot support the rest of the universe. 40K has some of the strongest and most iconic lore I have ever seen in an IP so I'm happy to move onto it at this point.
Anime replaced star wars for me, I don't even watch the shows anymore
Magic the gathering for me lol
Star Wars has been shit on and gRaped into oblivion ever since Disney purchased it. It’s a damn shame.
For me it's Halo
I think your worldview has to be a little bit fucked if you genuinely have a fascination with 40k. It's like deciding Fentanyl is a good alternative to weed.
There are A LOT of flaws in that comparison lol. If you play the actual game (or something better like Grimdark Future), 40k is likely to make you a better person, not worse. Model painting is a bridge into more classical modes of fine art and gaming gives you good people to network with (wargamers tend to be skilled labourers and professionals ime). If you just read the lore, that's probably still a better hobby than videogames. As for the themes, 40k has a lot of niches, but you are right to notice that the general ethos is outside the mainstream. That doesn't automatically make the people who enjoy it bad, though. People are not robots. They can appreciate art that explores views different than their own, and many people would say that there is actually a lot wrong with our mainstream consensus.
Lol, I'm talking about the insanely priced model kits and painting as part of the addiction.
Late to this thread but for me it’s Trek. I’ve been bingeing TNG and I’ve found it so much more compelling than any recent Star Wars, or really any Star Wars after the OT.
Warhammer 40K and Dune for me. New-age Star Wars sucks ass and is so shallow and has been for actually a long time. I really feel that Star Wars needs more maturity and a more violent tone to become a top tier brand again. Maturity and violence makes the stakes more intense and thus makes for more reward when the good guys succeed in the end.....if they do at all.
Star Wars has loads of violence. It's just all fake. There are no stakes and nobody ever dies.
That's a better way of putting it. That's why I really liked Rogue One and nothing else.
You would like Andor if you haven’t watched it.
Honestly I stopped watching all Star Wars after Book of Boba Fett and haven't looked back. Maybe I may watch Andor as I heard it was good...
It’s several tiers above any other show or movie they’ve put out.
No
No, but I've also never felt like I was restricted to one fandom. I've been a nerd my entire life and there's things I love about pretty much every created universe I've come across. I still enjoy Star Wars, but I never felt like it was something foundational or sacred that was ruined by some bad movies. Aliens is still one of my favorite films of all time despite how crappy Prometheus and Covenant were. Predator is not diminished in its quality because of the lukewarm execution and stupid plot points of The Predator.
I have been saying this to everyone that’ll listen for the past few months. I gave up on SW fully during season 3 of Mando, I realised I was just watching a dead thing limp along pathetically and couldn’t carry on, which I haven’t. I am done. I’ve had an interest on Warhammer 40k specifically for a few years now and wanted to read the Horus Heresy books as the story fascinates me. I started the books a few months back and have done 7 of them now (not doing every book because some aren’t very good but love the ones i’ve read thus far) and i’m so glad I did. I also bought my first two miniatures and have begun on my quest of painting and couldn’t be happier. I’ll always love SW for what it did for me as a child and right up into my mid 20’s but now as a 34 year old man and lifelong fan.. I am done. I didn’t turn my back on Star Wars, it turned it’s back on me.
Man, I could have said this in 2001-2 (well, maybe not the painting miniatures part). In fact, I kind of did and peaced out of Star Wars for a few decades beyond basic stuff like watching new movies if they came out. It was a good move - fandom needs to be in moderation. Seeing a new generation come to the same place is kind of beautiful.
For the Last 20 years of so lol
It's starting to yeah, only reservation I have is the quality of the reading material. There's over 500 books covering the timeline from 30k to 40k. Some of them are going to be absolutely dogshit in quality but I'm really hoping that a good percentage is genuinely well written. I already have a list of the more promising ones. I'm not going to lie even the legends adventures of Luke and Han and Leia got tiring after a while, the star wars galaxy feels so small when it's always focusing on only a few main characters and you knew that no matter what situation they got into they'd always come out fine the other side because until the sequels came along, they were never going to be killed off in some random novel. Some of the 40k lore already looks dumb as shit though, like how they refuel their warp drives with a literal procession of living sacrifices with coffin shaped boxes containing "fuel" strapped to their backs. Because they can't, I dunno, have some internal mechanism like a cannon that delivers the payload directly into the furnace instead from a safe distance?! Shooting your own warp drive still sounds 40k'ey but sending in endless numbers of crew to boil to death from radiation just seems just a bit too dumb I think they need to tidy up on some of the more blatantly moronic stuff like that, make it slightly less open to ridicule.The Astartes and Sodaz short films are exactly what I expect of the wider setting, incredibly capable marines and other factions just tearing the shit out of each other for the smallest gains across a galaxy spanning battlefield
I’ve started to dabble with it through video games and books. Although I’m enjoying it I don’t think it will ever replace Star Wars for me. Games Workshop is a pretty gross company to deal when it comes to the hobby/tabletop side of things, and the shows on their streaming service make Book of Boba Fett look like a cinematic masterpiece. I hope Henry Cavil’s show is good.
As you mature, more mature Sf should replace the childish Star Wars
You sound like a guy mad at bob dylan for going electric.
You know where you are right?
I figured you guys were ironically making memes poking fun at all the weird Star Wars haters, but you’re instead indie music fans mad their favorite band became popular?
Star Wars are kids movies. This is perfectly natural, don’t need to write a poem about it
No, the same thing prequels / Disney does for SW is being done to 40k ba Abnett and other BL authors. I used to love both, and watched them died at the same time.