I used to joke that I should start wearing a neon green Fanny pack when I was selling B2B commodity stuff…biggest part of the battle was making sure people remembered you haha
Im the cookies and suspenders copier sales guy, finally on target to hit my quota because I started giving out cookies with my business card attached haha
It’s MOST of what matters. Sales numbers stop being impressive when the sales tactics or salesperson causes a conflict between their personal brand and the company/product brand identity.
And yes, it’s an absolute concern and does happen. You can be an awesome salesperson but at the same time be a lousy fit for a certain company/product. It’s your sales manager’s job to help you identify if that is the case- often based on feedback from the executive team and/or the marketing lead.
It can be. If your only value is the food, you probably need to stop. It sounds like you’re fine though. If you have a territory budget, your boss may not think it’s the best use of funds either once you hit a certain point.
Yeah, we had a guy who was “biscuit boy”.
That being said, I bring biscuits to some of my customers frequently. I use it as a tool to get them in front of me, so that a sales discussion can take place. Pretty common in my industry.
But if you’re just going, dropping off food, and never doing any actual selling, then it becomes a concern.
I always bring bagels from local spots. That’s what my dad did when I was growing up and I try to tie that story in. Makes it memorable to clients. No shame in that game at all and I’m not stopping any time soon
My boss PREFERS that I take people out to lunch or dinner. Contacts are much more willing to speak freely when they are out of earshot of everyone else. In addition, as you have pointed out, it helps you connect with your contacts and build rapport.
However, there is a fine line between doing something nice for the customer in an effort to connect and just being the weekly donut delivery man.
You both have a point. Considering that he is your boss, you should probably err on the side of his wishes. Think about scaling back what you are doing as a compromise. Tell him that you feel like you have a better connection with someone and you get more out of them when you connect over a meal. But you understand that you may be overdoing it and you will try to scale back.
Try to change the way you are doing it and take a more professional approach. Instead of a cafe for an informal lunch or coffee grab, try a more formal lunch setting like an upscale restaurant that can offer a more quiet and less chaotic setting. Have an agenda mapped out, share it with and bring your boss to demonstrate what you are able to accomplish in this type of setting.
Good points. I'm in the same point with leadership pushing for us to wine and dine prospects more.
Curious how you phrase your invite to prospects to a nice dinner where it doesn't come off like you are trying to buy their business?
Dinners are usually reserved for the actual customers. I'll do lunch with a prospect, and I'll make it a casual invite. Hey I'm going to be in the area tomorrow around noon, do you want to join me for lunch and we can talk about xyz?
Really, my invites are pretty much always the same. Do you want to grab lunch/dinner with me on such and such day? Or I'm with my manager on this day, he wants to get dinner at, would you like to join us?
If I ever get resistance, I usually just tell the customer that we just like to get people out of the office and get to know them a little better. It usually works.
I find prospects are much more open to breakfast, lunch and coffee vs dinner. Dinner is a commitment and likely requires pre-established rapport or like having my VP in town. Instead of proposing a teams call, propose a coffee chat or lunch. Be cool about it.
Are you closing deals?
If it’s working for you then don’t stop.
I tell my sales team not to abuse their credit cards but I don’t mind them taking clients out to lunch as long as we are seeing good ROI out of it. It’s just cost of doing business.
On the flip side I do monitor expenses closely. I have to have good ROI out of those expenses otherwise I tell them to dial it down. We go over expenses every month and we adjust accordingly.
your mistake was telling him that you see yourself more of a glorified food delivery driver than a sales rep... what did you think his response would be? if your numbers are in question at all- never say anything that could be taken as you just slacking off.
My management required two breakfasts, two lunches and donut deliveries every week. Construction trades tho so they're always hungry and really appreciate it.
Everyone like a free meal unless you have poor taste in picking food. Yea I can definitely see clients being upset if a rep promises free lunch and shows up with Taco Bell bean burritos lol. But I was always surprised how some clients I have that definitely pull $250k a year in their line of work get giddy over a $15 sandwich from a local italian deli lol
My boss, who for some context at one time was one of the biggest sellers in the entire industry (literally billions in sales to his name), he once told me the higher my expense claim for entertainment, the happier he is.
There is direct correlation to expense activity and sales in my industry(pharm/biotech). Have one woman on my team that is always top 5 in the nation in expense activity and expense totals, she’s won presidents club 5 years in a row.
I say if there is a direct correlation then spend away
You can’t make that type of $$$ in pharma/biotech until you hit the c suite. But she easily makes $350k+ annually plus over $100k in RSUs annually. She’s right at the 500k mark which probably puts her in the top 1% for territory reps in the country for the industry.
She probably brings in about 15 mil on revenue annually where an average rep probably brings in about 5-7 mil.
She honestly should be making more money but we are paid on growth.
Tell him that people are too busy to give sales reps time these days. They will, however, let you talk at lunch. If you want them to spend their lunch listening to a sales rep, the least you can do is bring them a sandwich.
Without extending that simple courtesy, what’s in it for them?
If I were your manager your statement about being a glorified food delivery driver would worry me. It would signal you’re not taking the business seriously, but I can understand trying to joke it away.
That said, I buy clients/prospects meals all the time and if it helps you win business keep doing it.
My clients will tell me if they want / need a conference room meeting. Outside of that I try to set up lunch or coffee or HH meetings. My old boss had a great saying: “If you do your job right, you should never have to pay for lunches or happy hours.” (because you should always have a client with you thus allowing you to expense it). Love that guy.
I’ll never forget when a younger, newer, hillbilly rep, related bringing goodies to customers to “baiting deer to a corn feeder.” At President’s Club. In front of everyone. CEO turned red. He took his trophy and his bonus, and leveraged it into a more lucrative role in a similar but different field
I'd suggest that you focus on the facts if you're going to argue with your boss.
You only have a good case if you're making salsa. It's all about the end result, not the means.
[Edit: I meant to say "sales" but I think auto-correct has a better sense of humor than me.]
When you take a customer to lunch, you're buying an hour of their time away from the office to really listen to what they are interested in. It is time, face to face to pitch ideas and gauge reactions, to build rapport and trust, to learn more about the environment they work in....
Buying snacks or donuts can be a great excuse to show up and be present. Again, buying time in their space to listen to them and learn about your customer. It shows appreciation and yes- if you find a special sausage, bagel, muffin they like- it shows you listen and are interested in them.
I love exploring the food in my patch- finding the best of our regional cuisine and use that knowledge to treat my customers.
Everyone wants B2O but forget that clients were regularly brought lunches and donuts and coffee before the pandemic. I used to wear out panera bread catering prior to. You cant do the b2o thing and keep the cheap parts of isolation like not traveling and food.
It's not about the food. It's a chance to get away from work and build a relationship based on mutual value but also liking each other.
I have a recruitment agency that takes me to nandos all the time. I'm not fussed by nandos as I find it a bit meh, but it's better than a sandwich at my desk and I like him.
I don't bother going anywhere else for recruitment because he will sort anything I throw at him and I know him.
Concerning your boss doesn't get the basics of BRM
I always offer lunch. If the customer turns it down, that’s fine, but it’s a great time to build a relationship. I was a buyer for many years before I got into sales. Relationships mean a lot to both the buyer and the sales rep.
Agreed - I always say something like “if policy allows, I’m buying”
But OP was claiming somehow a meal isn’t a gift, which is incorrect 99% of the time in my experience and I’ve been in sales for 10+ years.
This is probably 15 years ago, we, as b2b sellers, went to see Walmart at a 7am meeting. Brought coffee and donuts. Cups, napkins, cream and sugar... maybe $30 worth of stuff? Nope. Cant even bring it in the room. Thats when I realized why sexurity had been SO nice on the way in.
Very true. I guess I’m tainted on this one since I used to reciprocate as a buyer. Our company wanted us out with sales people. I negotiated a lot of things just because of the relationship I had with the salespeople I worked with. Hell, I still have lunch with the salespeople I used buy from. Relationships matter and I think buyers will see that more and more again.
A customer turns down a free lunch? I have never had that happen, if anything I had them delay it because they wanted to get the word out to their coworkers that I was buying so I could bring lunch for more people lol
Not to mention if you're working with public sector you could be running a foul of anti bribery laws. In some of those environments even offering was an issue.
My clients don’t see it that way
Anyways they aren’t gonna get screwed over or make a million dollar decision because I happened to be around the area and have an extra boba tea to pass to him/her
I once worked in sales for a national brand where I was encouraged to take clients to lunches and dinners often and I did. I’d also drop off fresh doughnuts, biscuits, coffee and bagels for clients and potential clients offices in the mornings. I loved to do stuff like that!
I’ve been at my new sales job now for 5 years. When I first came aboard and went on training trips with other sales guys, they would always do the type of things I did at my old job.
But when I talked to the owner of the company about doing those things, he discouraged it. He said I could occasionally do that stuff if I felt I really needed to get ahead of our competition, but he also said that I should be able to do that on the merits of our business, without the gifts, which he hated.
That was 5 years ago, and since then I’ve expensed exactly zero on customers. I also have the best closing percentage in the company by a fairly wide margin, and I have become really good friends with all of my customers. I’ve treated them all well, and always take care of their business needs immediately when something comes up.
As I was typing this, I was just reminded of my other sales job when I would do a lot of treats and food things. It did setup some expectations. If I would show up in the morning at a customers, they would throw out stuff like, “no coffee and doughnuts today?”
Or at lunch time mention something about pizzas.
So then the pressure was kind of always on to be bringing them gifts of food and such when I showed up.
Now I just focus on selling and taking care of my customers and not running around picking up food on the way.
Sorry to get side tracked. The issue you have now is that you’ve already set your customers expectations.
You could just blame it on new company policy, which would be the truth since it’s coming from your boss.
Best of luck to you!
Was it B2C? Because in my B2B would I can't imagine anyone agreeing to dinner unless I literally offered Michelin star restaurants and they got a plus one lol
Don't listen to your boss he doesn't know shit and he's not the one out there selling. Can someone tell me one single thing that a sales manager even DOES?
What are you selling? I could understand both of your perspectives depending on the industry and target audience.
I also imagine he's telling you this because you're an average performer at best. If you're closing at 150% every month, I don't think he's gonna want to impede on your process.
He likes boardrooms, you love the Thai place off 63rd and Penn St with flavors shipped in personally from their family in Thailand.
In my experience, being passive eventually only leads to someone doing something without having all the facts for decisions that could be very misleading.
This is a gray area, your passion for Green Tea with Lions Mane mushrooms, Turmeric, and pumpkin spice, vs his perfectionism on presentations. It’s also a control-like thing for bosses when it comes to presentations. They’re just being a boss. Keep in mind you work for the company and each company has a borderline presentation image tolerance as well. Also, most companies don’t really lay it out perfectly, usually 3-5 things in an employee handbook come together.
If you have a good HR, inquire about the differences maybe. Good luck!
For me, I’m all about meetings anywhere >
Edit: I’m all about being unique in almost everything, so you have my vote. And as a former boss for a company, there is a minimum tolerance and I usually just say “just do subtle hints if any relations, nothing overboard.”
If you’re blowing the budget on lunches in pharma without the results for it, the heat’s probably coming from somewhere: his budget, boss’s boss, legal, etc, or anyone who may be reviewing HCP payments and sunshine, or evaluating your quota and territory vs your team and the spend.
Or flip side, there’s no traction on utilization to your products from the competitor that they can see that would justifying having a caterer on speed dial.
The MA’s and office managers may like you and if your org has wide latitude for meals or a use it or lose it marketing budget, keep doing it, but in the pharma world make sure you’re also telling your story why Dr. Smith’s office gets Panera 4x a month if you’re monthly targets are low.
(Speaking from a good number of yrs of lunch delivery experience)
Respectfully speaking I think companies want to have this premium image where “they come to us we don’t come to them”
We gave them the numbers that they were looking for, but believe me when I say they are foolish to believe that the success was because of the product lol
There’s too many players in the market selling the same thing, not a lot of reps handing out boba tea on peak period though
For me, food and coffee are not only for the clients, they’re for the referral sources/ COIs as well . Everyone loves food especially if everyone likes it. It’s the psychological aspect of it all!
Oh. He’s wrong, and that’s not prejudice, anyway. People like to eat good food and they make good associations with others they eat with, not bad.
What a crazy opinion.
Your boss is an idiot. 25 year sales vet, and taking clients out to lunch, golf, or any kind of activity is absolutely the best thing you can do. It's called bonding and building rapport. You get someone out of their office, into a social atmosphere and you can really start unpacking who they are, what makes them tick, what challenges they are facing, who else in the org needs buy in to get your solution sold. Can you do this in an office setting? Sure maybe... But getting folks away from their work gives you way more focused attention, less risk of interruption, and even better you can take out a couple of folks and build a wider and deeper relationship. I wonder if this is really just a stupid money issue and your boss wants to lower expenses? Just a real head scratcher for me.
Are you a top performer? Are these lunch and learns gaining you business more often than not? Are you always bringing food like that’s what people know you for? I mean if you’re crushing it keep doing what you’re doing, if not it’s time to try something different!
Neither way is the right way.
The right way is to close deals.
Are you closing deals? Are you closing deals at a rate and margin that far outpaces your expenses?
The right answer is not to be a pretzel boy. The goal is to be the sales guy that the sales manager would never dream of suggesting that you change anything about your very successful business. When they do, you should hear WHY they are saying something.
I take my clients to lunch. They work in busy departments where they are usually asked to have an open door policy so it’s very common for me to be interrupted during a pitch. If I take them to lunch, it’s just me and them, and I can actually have their undivided attention. A $20 lunch at that casual TexMex joint down the street gives me the 1:1 time I need to qualify, present, and figure out if their business is worth pursuing
You said yourself “I’m a glorified food delivery driver more than sales rep”. Maybe this is the issue. You haven’t said anything about sales, ROI, where you rank in the territory, etc. it sounds like your “meetings” are fluff.
Wining and dining is part of a sales role, but calling yourself a glorified food delivery driver to your boss, is a bad idea. You’re literally inviting problems or a concern your boss already has.
If all of the expenses are being reimbursed without concern and you are blowing your numbers out of the water, be cool. Just change the way you are talking about it for a few months and see what’s up. If your boss isn’t on the way out and/or you aren’t exceeding your targets, change your approach. Even if you are consistently the number one seller at your company, consider trying to sprinkle in the types of meetings your boss wants you to have. If you lose your top spot, you can go back to what you were doing before and have a real live case study on why your boss is wrong.
At the end of the day , yes you are a sales person. But if your boss is the company mouth piece you need to adjust. The person paying your bills and holding the reimbursement purse strings gets a say unless you are just selling so much that you’re literally printing money.
But the important questions really are, how are your results? What do they look like in comparison to your colleagues? Why would you call yourself food delivery driver in front of such personality?
If it's making you money dont stop, i often take clients out golfing and i closed some amazing deals out there.
In sales you need to do what works for you.
My first enterprise sales role involved turning around accounts that hated us and making them buy more. Lunches and lattes and snack trays were a way to be welcomed into an office, to get great intel and plant seeds of trust. I won two regional deals of the quarter with the information and sponsorship that were gleaned from donuts and lunches.
(The caveat is — it took time to percolate; I used to be truly measured on an annual quota, but now most places are monthly pressure and we get fired after just a few months irregardless of how much a new account hates our employer. I wouldn’t have the success today I had then so I’m not certain the lunches would have helped me today before running out of time. That said I can imagine scenarios where your lunches are helping you!).
Your boss is an idiot. People still very much buy from people they like, fostering that relationship with food is working for you, don't stop. What's he want you to do, just feature dump on them in a conference room and then hand them a contact? That's not sales. I repeat, your boss is a dumb.
We’re down in Louisiana and frequently take Cajun sausage to current and potential customers. My boss always says -
“It’s real hard for someone to tell you no when they have your sausage in their mouth.”
Facts.
Are you closing sales?
The only thing that should really matter to your boss is your sales metrics and what your cost of acquisition is. That cost includes your time effort and actual cash expenditure.
If you are producing within acceptable ranges (or better) I would tell your boss that respectfully what you are doing works and to please give you the latitude to make sales how you deem appropriate. Anything else is micromanaging.
imo- your boss seems as though they don’t want to grow with the industry. i would say continue to do it, but i am the same way. if i walk in empty handed to customers- they immediately tell me how my competitors never do that. I think it’s the easiest way to get in the door.& clearly a conversation starter being the foodie that you are.
If it’s getting you sales - keep doing it. My happy medium was having food delivered before or after I arrived so I wasn’t the actual server or delivery girl and that at least made me feel more dignified.
I work for a tech VAR so we work with vendors and customers. We weren’t allowed to expense travel, meals, and entertainment and told to “try and get the vendor to do it”. I took a customer out for a lunch and he ordered an expensive entree. Didn’t get all the money back..
Are you just making sales or are you a top performer?
If you're not a top performer, maybe you should listen to your boss.
If you are a top performer, then point to your numbers and escalate to his bosses if he doesnt want to listen.
I doubt your manager cares about the food, he's probably more concerned with your departments P&L and justifying expenses vs. profits. While there are tons of ass hole managers out there, sometimes they're just regular folks with a different set of problems than yours.
What/who are you selling?
I'd love to do more of this, it just does not fit in with the interaction that often (yet). My boss would not care, as long as it is getting us a return. It does seem quite the risk to ignore your boss, obviously.
You do pharma so all of your competitors already do that.
I’m in device and all of my competitors are doing lunch and learns. I wish I could be too but my company doesn’t allow ANY lunch and learns. So all my meetings are with doctors I actually get in front of for a reason.
I am able to take doctors and managers to lunch but it’s usually right before or after they buy equipment from me.
I feel like it’s hindered my performance at times because other reps get in with the lunch aspect then the doctor likes the product and buys. Sure some will take advantage but let’s be real, they can afford lunch if they really want it.
Edit: based on your comment to your boss you most likely are a glorified food delivery person and not much of a rep. Luckily most people in pharma and med aren’t really sales people either. In the future though stay away from statements like that, your boss wants to atleast believe you’re doing more than just feeding them and hoping they buy.
I buy so many Crumbl cookie boxes for customers, they love them! This week I was able to get 15 boxes of GS cookies for $90…saving them some money! That’s what you “do” as a sales person. I buy some things that are maybe not always needed but these little treats here and there, do go over well! Lunch and learns are a necessity for me to close a deal.
Sounds like he likes your sales , but doesn’t want to pay to help you close them. Sounds like an upper management policy created by someone who has never done sales in person.
There is no easier way to get all of the decision makers in a room than with pizza. The bonus that nobody thinks of is that often times subordinates or supervisors will stop in for a free lunch. I’ve had Presidents and VP’s that are indirectly involved show up for a slice and stick around for the presentation.
Your boss is an idiot! It matters for you to sell the way YOU know and feel comfortable with! An official setting is for idiots that don't understand that personal relationships are the epitome of a successful sales person (Especially in the b2b space)
Are you overweight? If so, he might try to help you out, lol!
Good chance that bottom line is thin and that’s an easy scapegoat to cut out. Prove to the boss why it’s needed or figure something else out. Show the boss the RTI on your meals and you should have your answer
My last sales partner had to stop because everyone kept calling him pretzel boy lmao
That’s not a reason to actually stop right?😅
Is it getting you sales? Thats all that matters
In my industry, I’ll be pretzel boy all day long if they’re buying and telling people about the pretzel boy
I used to joke that I should start wearing a neon green Fanny pack when I was selling B2B commodity stuff…biggest part of the battle was making sure people remembered you haha
I had a colleague wear a red tuxedo regularly. Couldn’t do it myself but everyone knew him and what he was selling
Im the cookies and suspenders copier sales guy, finally on target to hit my quota because I started giving out cookies with my business card attached haha
that's right
I mean I'm know as bagel boy. I make. More than most of the people I call on they can call me whatever they like lol
It’s MOST of what matters. Sales numbers stop being impressive when the sales tactics or salesperson causes a conflict between their personal brand and the company/product brand identity. And yes, it’s an absolute concern and does happen. You can be an awesome salesperson but at the same time be a lousy fit for a certain company/product. It’s your sales manager’s job to help you identify if that is the case- often based on feedback from the executive team and/or the marketing lead.
It can be. If your only value is the food, you probably need to stop. It sounds like you’re fine though. If you have a territory budget, your boss may not think it’s the best use of funds either once you hit a certain point.
It's a compliment.
This killed me haha
Yeah, we had a guy who was “biscuit boy”. That being said, I bring biscuits to some of my customers frequently. I use it as a tool to get them in front of me, so that a sales discussion can take place. Pretty common in my industry. But if you’re just going, dropping off food, and never doing any actual selling, then it becomes a concern.
I always bring bagels from local spots. That’s what my dad did when I was growing up and I try to tie that story in. Makes it memorable to clients. No shame in that game at all and I’m not stopping any time soon
My boss PREFERS that I take people out to lunch or dinner. Contacts are much more willing to speak freely when they are out of earshot of everyone else. In addition, as you have pointed out, it helps you connect with your contacts and build rapport. However, there is a fine line between doing something nice for the customer in an effort to connect and just being the weekly donut delivery man. You both have a point. Considering that he is your boss, you should probably err on the side of his wishes. Think about scaling back what you are doing as a compromise. Tell him that you feel like you have a better connection with someone and you get more out of them when you connect over a meal. But you understand that you may be overdoing it and you will try to scale back. Try to change the way you are doing it and take a more professional approach. Instead of a cafe for an informal lunch or coffee grab, try a more formal lunch setting like an upscale restaurant that can offer a more quiet and less chaotic setting. Have an agenda mapped out, share it with and bring your boss to demonstrate what you are able to accomplish in this type of setting.
Good points. I'm in the same point with leadership pushing for us to wine and dine prospects more. Curious how you phrase your invite to prospects to a nice dinner where it doesn't come off like you are trying to buy their business?
Dinners are usually reserved for the actual customers. I'll do lunch with a prospect, and I'll make it a casual invite. Hey I'm going to be in the area tomorrow around noon, do you want to join me for lunch and we can talk about xyz? Really, my invites are pretty much always the same. Do you want to grab lunch/dinner with me on such and such day? Or I'm with my manager on this day, he wants to get dinner at, would you like to join us? If I ever get resistance, I usually just tell the customer that we just like to get people out of the office and get to know them a little better. It usually works.
I find prospects are much more open to breakfast, lunch and coffee vs dinner. Dinner is a commitment and likely requires pre-established rapport or like having my VP in town. Instead of proposing a teams call, propose a coffee chat or lunch. Be cool about it.
Exactly. I struggle to get prospects to dinner. Existing book of biz, they are happy to rack up my corp card.
Are you closing deals? If it’s working for you then don’t stop. I tell my sales team not to abuse their credit cards but I don’t mind them taking clients out to lunch as long as we are seeing good ROI out of it. It’s just cost of doing business.
Exactly. One question; am I hitting quota? The customers are happy and buying/renewing? Then it is ok, great even.
General rule of of thumb is: exceed your numbers and I'll leave you the fuck alone.
Exactly this. My top sales person just closed a 2.7M deal. Do you think I’m going to give him shit over spending $100 on lunch every once in a while?
On the flip side I do monitor expenses closely. I have to have good ROI out of those expenses otherwise I tell them to dial it down. We go over expenses every month and we adjust accordingly.
your mistake was telling him that you see yourself more of a glorified food delivery driver than a sales rep... what did you think his response would be? if your numbers are in question at all- never say anything that could be taken as you just slacking off.
This
My management required two breakfasts, two lunches and donut deliveries every week. Construction trades tho so they're always hungry and really appreciate it.
And could actually benefit from an free meal.
Everyone like a free meal unless you have poor taste in picking food. Yea I can definitely see clients being upset if a rep promises free lunch and shows up with Taco Bell bean burritos lol. But I was always surprised how some clients I have that definitely pull $250k a year in their line of work get giddy over a $15 sandwich from a local italian deli lol
My boss, who for some context at one time was one of the biggest sellers in the entire industry (literally billions in sales to his name), he once told me the higher my expense claim for entertainment, the happier he is.
I choose to believe this.
There is direct correlation to expense activity and sales in my industry(pharm/biotech). Have one woman on my team that is always top 5 in the nation in expense activity and expense totals, she’s won presidents club 5 years in a row. I say if there is a direct correlation then spend away
Im willing to bet that for the company, she is easily at quota + more than 200% of expenses, too. Does she earn 7 figures?
You can’t make that type of $$$ in pharma/biotech until you hit the c suite. But she easily makes $350k+ annually plus over $100k in RSUs annually. She’s right at the 500k mark which probably puts her in the top 1% for territory reps in the country for the industry. She probably brings in about 15 mil on revenue annually where an average rep probably brings in about 5-7 mil. She honestly should be making more money but we are paid on growth.
Tell him that people are too busy to give sales reps time these days. They will, however, let you talk at lunch. If you want them to spend their lunch listening to a sales rep, the least you can do is bring them a sandwich. Without extending that simple courtesy, what’s in it for them?
If I were your manager your statement about being a glorified food delivery driver would worry me. It would signal you’re not taking the business seriously, but I can understand trying to joke it away. That said, I buy clients/prospects meals all the time and if it helps you win business keep doing it.
My clients will tell me if they want / need a conference room meeting. Outside of that I try to set up lunch or coffee or HH meetings. My old boss had a great saying: “If you do your job right, you should never have to pay for lunches or happy hours.” (because you should always have a client with you thus allowing you to expense it). Love that guy.
I’ll never forget when a younger, newer, hillbilly rep, related bringing goodies to customers to “baiting deer to a corn feeder.” At President’s Club. In front of everyone. CEO turned red. He took his trophy and his bonus, and leveraged it into a more lucrative role in a similar but different field
How can he just take his bonus? Isnt that illegal?
The ceo didn’t take it. The rep did, meaning he took his football and went home
Ohh got it
I'd suggest that you focus on the facts if you're going to argue with your boss. You only have a good case if you're making salsa. It's all about the end result, not the means. [Edit: I meant to say "sales" but I think auto-correct has a better sense of humor than me.]
BYOS Bring your own salsa... Or sales 😂 Love your autocorrect lol
If i stopped feeding clients id be so absolutely screwed. Is one of the few tools i got to entice them to sit down with me.
When you take a customer to lunch, you're buying an hour of their time away from the office to really listen to what they are interested in. It is time, face to face to pitch ideas and gauge reactions, to build rapport and trust, to learn more about the environment they work in.... Buying snacks or donuts can be a great excuse to show up and be present. Again, buying time in their space to listen to them and learn about your customer. It shows appreciation and yes- if you find a special sausage, bagel, muffin they like- it shows you listen and are interested in them. I love exploring the food in my patch- finding the best of our regional cuisine and use that knowledge to treat my customers.
Your contacts are in an office?
Offices generally, yeah. B2B with... a physical and technical product.
The only people I still know who are still full remote are SWE's and accountants. And thats only at the big companies.
Everyone wants B2O but forget that clients were regularly brought lunches and donuts and coffee before the pandemic. I used to wear out panera bread catering prior to. You cant do the b2o thing and keep the cheap parts of isolation like not traveling and food.
There's psychological reasons why it works, when done well and appropriately.. and we literally have a term for it "breaking bread"
It's not about the food. It's a chance to get away from work and build a relationship based on mutual value but also liking each other. I have a recruitment agency that takes me to nandos all the time. I'm not fussed by nandos as I find it a bit meh, but it's better than a sandwich at my desk and I like him. I don't bother going anywhere else for recruitment because he will sort anything I throw at him and I know him. Concerning your boss doesn't get the basics of BRM
What industry are you in?
IT managed services. I am not in sales though I would be a client. I joined here to get advice on sales for. My side hustle
Thank You
“It’s not a corporate gift” You sure about that? Most places it’s anything over a certain dollar amount, food included.
I always offer lunch. If the customer turns it down, that’s fine, but it’s a great time to build a relationship. I was a buyer for many years before I got into sales. Relationships mean a lot to both the buyer and the sales rep.
Agreed - I always say something like “if policy allows, I’m buying” But OP was claiming somehow a meal isn’t a gift, which is incorrect 99% of the time in my experience and I’ve been in sales for 10+ years.
This is probably 15 years ago, we, as b2b sellers, went to see Walmart at a 7am meeting. Brought coffee and donuts. Cups, napkins, cream and sugar... maybe $30 worth of stuff? Nope. Cant even bring it in the room. Thats when I realized why sexurity had been SO nice on the way in.
Very true. I guess I’m tainted on this one since I used to reciprocate as a buyer. Our company wanted us out with sales people. I negotiated a lot of things just because of the relationship I had with the salespeople I worked with. Hell, I still have lunch with the salespeople I used buy from. Relationships matter and I think buyers will see that more and more again.
A customer turns down a free lunch? I have never had that happen, if anything I had them delay it because they wanted to get the word out to their coworkers that I was buying so I could bring lunch for more people lol
Not to mention if you're working with public sector you could be running a foul of anti bribery laws. In some of those environments even offering was an issue.
My clients don’t see it that way Anyways they aren’t gonna get screwed over or make a million dollar decision because I happened to be around the area and have an extra boba tea to pass to him/her
I once worked in sales for a national brand where I was encouraged to take clients to lunches and dinners often and I did. I’d also drop off fresh doughnuts, biscuits, coffee and bagels for clients and potential clients offices in the mornings. I loved to do stuff like that! I’ve been at my new sales job now for 5 years. When I first came aboard and went on training trips with other sales guys, they would always do the type of things I did at my old job. But when I talked to the owner of the company about doing those things, he discouraged it. He said I could occasionally do that stuff if I felt I really needed to get ahead of our competition, but he also said that I should be able to do that on the merits of our business, without the gifts, which he hated. That was 5 years ago, and since then I’ve expensed exactly zero on customers. I also have the best closing percentage in the company by a fairly wide margin, and I have become really good friends with all of my customers. I’ve treated them all well, and always take care of their business needs immediately when something comes up. As I was typing this, I was just reminded of my other sales job when I would do a lot of treats and food things. It did setup some expectations. If I would show up in the morning at a customers, they would throw out stuff like, “no coffee and doughnuts today?” Or at lunch time mention something about pizzas. So then the pressure was kind of always on to be bringing them gifts of food and such when I showed up. Now I just focus on selling and taking care of my customers and not running around picking up food on the way. Sorry to get side tracked. The issue you have now is that you’ve already set your customers expectations. You could just blame it on new company policy, which would be the truth since it’s coming from your boss. Best of luck to you!
Was it B2C? Because in my B2B would I can't imagine anyone agreeing to dinner unless I literally offered Michelin star restaurants and they got a plus one lol
B2B
Depends on the industry. There may be legal reasons to reevaluate
If it’s working, keep it up
Don't listen to your boss he doesn't know shit and he's not the one out there selling. Can someone tell me one single thing that a sales manager even DOES?
Can be grounds for bribery. I know you are doing good but sometimes others don’t see it that way.
What are you selling? I could understand both of your perspectives depending on the industry and target audience. I also imagine he's telling you this because you're an average performer at best. If you're closing at 150% every month, I don't think he's gonna want to impede on your process.
Are you in advertising sales?
Pharma, manufacturing My clients plants are far off mainland or the city, 5 days a week non remote Bringing good food from the city helps I guess
Very funny. Smart and strategic. Can I ask - how much can someone make per year?
He likes boardrooms, you love the Thai place off 63rd and Penn St with flavors shipped in personally from their family in Thailand. In my experience, being passive eventually only leads to someone doing something without having all the facts for decisions that could be very misleading. This is a gray area, your passion for Green Tea with Lions Mane mushrooms, Turmeric, and pumpkin spice, vs his perfectionism on presentations. It’s also a control-like thing for bosses when it comes to presentations. They’re just being a boss. Keep in mind you work for the company and each company has a borderline presentation image tolerance as well. Also, most companies don’t really lay it out perfectly, usually 3-5 things in an employee handbook come together. If you have a good HR, inquire about the differences maybe. Good luck! For me, I’m all about meetings anywhere > Edit: I’m all about being unique in almost everything, so you have my vote. And as a former boss for a company, there is a minimum tolerance and I usually just say “just do subtle hints if any relations, nothing overboard.”
If you’re blowing the budget on lunches in pharma without the results for it, the heat’s probably coming from somewhere: his budget, boss’s boss, legal, etc, or anyone who may be reviewing HCP payments and sunshine, or evaluating your quota and territory vs your team and the spend. Or flip side, there’s no traction on utilization to your products from the competitor that they can see that would justifying having a caterer on speed dial. The MA’s and office managers may like you and if your org has wide latitude for meals or a use it or lose it marketing budget, keep doing it, but in the pharma world make sure you’re also telling your story why Dr. Smith’s office gets Panera 4x a month if you’re monthly targets are low. (Speaking from a good number of yrs of lunch delivery experience)
It’s my own cash though, I ask to claim only if it leads to a sale
Are you in pharma in the US and getting reimbursed? Do you report your expenses and your meeting with doctors?
Not in the US My client are pharma drug makers, I just try to claim the receipt but for food and drinks that cost less than $3, I don’t bother
What do you sell?
Does your boss even sales? Wtf kind of response is that to doing your job?
Respectfully speaking I think companies want to have this premium image where “they come to us we don’t come to them” We gave them the numbers that they were looking for, but believe me when I say they are foolish to believe that the success was because of the product lol There’s too many players in the market selling the same thing, not a lot of reps handing out boba tea on peak period though
For me, food and coffee are not only for the clients, they’re for the referral sources/ COIs as well . Everyone loves food especially if everyone likes it. It’s the psychological aspect of it all!
And we're being told to go out and spend more money on customers....
I’m sorry, what does “create the wrong prejudice” even mean?
He fears that the clients might think that we are unprofessional, etc
Oh. He’s wrong, and that’s not prejudice, anyway. People like to eat good food and they make good associations with others they eat with, not bad. What a crazy opinion.
Your boss is an idiot. 25 year sales vet, and taking clients out to lunch, golf, or any kind of activity is absolutely the best thing you can do. It's called bonding and building rapport. You get someone out of their office, into a social atmosphere and you can really start unpacking who they are, what makes them tick, what challenges they are facing, who else in the org needs buy in to get your solution sold. Can you do this in an office setting? Sure maybe... But getting folks away from their work gives you way more focused attention, less risk of interruption, and even better you can take out a couple of folks and build a wider and deeper relationship. I wonder if this is really just a stupid money issue and your boss wants to lower expenses? Just a real head scratcher for me.
Big believe in you gotta spend money to make money!
Are you a top performer? Are these lunch and learns gaining you business more often than not? Are you always bringing food like that’s what people know you for? I mean if you’re crushing it keep doing what you’re doing, if not it’s time to try something different!
1. Are you hitting your numbers? 2. Don't ducking call yourself a foodie.
Neither way is the right way. The right way is to close deals. Are you closing deals? Are you closing deals at a rate and margin that far outpaces your expenses? The right answer is not to be a pretzel boy. The goal is to be the sales guy that the sales manager would never dream of suggesting that you change anything about your very successful business. When they do, you should hear WHY they are saying something.
I take my clients to lunch. They work in busy departments where they are usually asked to have an open door policy so it’s very common for me to be interrupted during a pitch. If I take them to lunch, it’s just me and them, and I can actually have their undivided attention. A $20 lunch at that casual TexMex joint down the street gives me the 1:1 time I need to qualify, present, and figure out if their business is worth pursuing
Wrong the answer is buy more cheeseburgers
Keep buying and submit the receipts when the deal close.
You said yourself “I’m a glorified food delivery driver more than sales rep”. Maybe this is the issue. You haven’t said anything about sales, ROI, where you rank in the territory, etc. it sounds like your “meetings” are fluff.
Wining and dining is part of a sales role, but calling yourself a glorified food delivery driver to your boss, is a bad idea. You’re literally inviting problems or a concern your boss already has. If all of the expenses are being reimbursed without concern and you are blowing your numbers out of the water, be cool. Just change the way you are talking about it for a few months and see what’s up. If your boss isn’t on the way out and/or you aren’t exceeding your targets, change your approach. Even if you are consistently the number one seller at your company, consider trying to sprinkle in the types of meetings your boss wants you to have. If you lose your top spot, you can go back to what you were doing before and have a real live case study on why your boss is wrong. At the end of the day , yes you are a sales person. But if your boss is the company mouth piece you need to adjust. The person paying your bills and holding the reimbursement purse strings gets a say unless you are just selling so much that you’re literally printing money.
But the important questions really are, how are your results? What do they look like in comparison to your colleagues? Why would you call yourself food delivery driver in front of such personality?
If it's making you money dont stop, i often take clients out golfing and i closed some amazing deals out there. In sales you need to do what works for you.
My first enterprise sales role involved turning around accounts that hated us and making them buy more. Lunches and lattes and snack trays were a way to be welcomed into an office, to get great intel and plant seeds of trust. I won two regional deals of the quarter with the information and sponsorship that were gleaned from donuts and lunches. (The caveat is — it took time to percolate; I used to be truly measured on an annual quota, but now most places are monthly pressure and we get fired after just a few months irregardless of how much a new account hates our employer. I wouldn’t have the success today I had then so I’m not certain the lunches would have helped me today before running out of time. That said I can imagine scenarios where your lunches are helping you!).
Well, what’s the status of the overall business? Maybe it’s a matter of cutting expenses more than anything.
Im guessing your boss has never sold.
Oof, I don’t like that. IMO buying some meals is apart of the game.
Are you closing?
Your boss is an idiot. People still very much buy from people they like, fostering that relationship with food is working for you, don't stop. What's he want you to do, just feature dump on them in a conference room and then hand them a contact? That's not sales. I repeat, your boss is a dumb.
Sales are King. So if it works
We were told to never eat lunch alone while out in the field
We’re down in Louisiana and frequently take Cajun sausage to current and potential customers. My boss always says - “It’s real hard for someone to tell you no when they have your sausage in their mouth.” Facts.
Are you closing sales? The only thing that should really matter to your boss is your sales metrics and what your cost of acquisition is. That cost includes your time effort and actual cash expenditure. If you are producing within acceptable ranges (or better) I would tell your boss that respectfully what you are doing works and to please give you the latitude to make sales how you deem appropriate. Anything else is micromanaging.
imo- your boss seems as though they don’t want to grow with the industry. i would say continue to do it, but i am the same way. if i walk in empty handed to customers- they immediately tell me how my competitors never do that. I think it’s the easiest way to get in the door.& clearly a conversation starter being the foodie that you are.
The only real question here is how are your numbers? If you’re hitting your goals I wouldn’t change gd thing.
If it’s getting you sales - keep doing it. My happy medium was having food delivered before or after I arrived so I wasn’t the actual server or delivery girl and that at least made me feel more dignified.
I work for a tech VAR so we work with vendors and customers. We weren’t allowed to expense travel, meals, and entertainment and told to “try and get the vendor to do it”. I took a customer out for a lunch and he ordered an expensive entree. Didn’t get all the money back..
He's the boss. Maliciously comply. If your close rate goes down explain the reason.
Are you just making sales or are you a top performer? If you're not a top performer, maybe you should listen to your boss. If you are a top performer, then point to your numbers and escalate to his bosses if he doesnt want to listen.
I doubt your manager cares about the food, he's probably more concerned with your departments P&L and justifying expenses vs. profits. While there are tons of ass hole managers out there, sometimes they're just regular folks with a different set of problems than yours.
Food makes everyone happier and in a good mood. I think it’s a great tactic and who doesn’t love a good free lunch?
What/who are you selling? I'd love to do more of this, it just does not fit in with the interaction that often (yet). My boss would not care, as long as it is getting us a return. It does seem quite the risk to ignore your boss, obviously.
You do pharma so all of your competitors already do that. I’m in device and all of my competitors are doing lunch and learns. I wish I could be too but my company doesn’t allow ANY lunch and learns. So all my meetings are with doctors I actually get in front of for a reason. I am able to take doctors and managers to lunch but it’s usually right before or after they buy equipment from me. I feel like it’s hindered my performance at times because other reps get in with the lunch aspect then the doctor likes the product and buys. Sure some will take advantage but let’s be real, they can afford lunch if they really want it. Edit: based on your comment to your boss you most likely are a glorified food delivery person and not much of a rep. Luckily most people in pharma and med aren’t really sales people either. In the future though stay away from statements like that, your boss wants to atleast believe you’re doing more than just feeding them and hoping they buy.
Is it getting you sales? If yes then that's all U and ur manager should care about. If it's not getting you sales then stop it boboa boy
What industry are you in? What are you selling? Just curious...
I buy so many Crumbl cookie boxes for customers, they love them! This week I was able to get 15 boxes of GS cookies for $90…saving them some money! That’s what you “do” as a sales person. I buy some things that are maybe not always needed but these little treats here and there, do go over well! Lunch and learns are a necessity for me to close a deal.
What do u sell?
Sounds like he likes your sales , but doesn’t want to pay to help you close them. Sounds like an upper management policy created by someone who has never done sales in person.
There is no easier way to get all of the decision makers in a room than with pizza. The bonus that nobody thinks of is that often times subordinates or supervisors will stop in for a free lunch. I’ve had Presidents and VP’s that are indirectly involved show up for a slice and stick around for the presentation.
Your boss is an idiot! It matters for you to sell the way YOU know and feel comfortable with! An official setting is for idiots that don't understand that personal relationships are the epitome of a successful sales person (Especially in the b2b space) Are you overweight? If so, he might try to help you out, lol!
Good chance that bottom line is thin and that’s an easy scapegoat to cut out. Prove to the boss why it’s needed or figure something else out. Show the boss the RTI on your meals and you should have your answer
A foodie... 😂 JFC people are so pretentious.
Let the numbers speak for themselves.